I think back when people were evolving from apes, the last Missing Link Olivier swiped all the vintage bottles to keep his furry coat smelling nice.
So, find the Missing Link Olivier, and you will find the vintage Creed bottles....
"Probably the only truly great fragrance produced by this firm, it was composed in 1985 by Pierre Bourdon, who three years later rehashed a similar structure in the hugely successful and endlessly imitated Cool Water. Green Irish Tweed feels as good as it ever did, with the brilliantly imaginative accord of Ambroxan (metallic amber), dihydroxymyrcenol (gray citrus), and octin esters (green violet leaf) sweetened by a touch of apple up top and sandalwood below. Brilliant, legible, perfectly balanced, immediately recognizable."
This, from a chemist who ought to know what he's smelling, renders Creed's claims that they use only the finest natural ingredients categorically untrue. Calling for truth in perfume advertising is a little like calling for truth in Hollywood film-making, but I find Creed's blatant fabrication of history crosses the line into tastelessness. Another thing: for a company based in France, with Erwin Creed presumably a native speaker, they seem to have a lot of trouble with the language, accents, proper use of adjectives, etc. Shouldn't it be Vanille Sublime? And Royal Ceylan? Um, use the French spelling for the name of a country which changed its name and ceased to be a British Colony in 1948, then present the first bottle to Kate Middleton? Why, to remind her of a simpler time when the sun never set on the British Empire? You'd think a company with a Royal Warrant would have a bit more tact. I could go on. Finally, getting back to the question which started this thread, which I've recently been pondering myself, I think we can safely answer: there aren't any.
Last edited by professor goggles; 11th July 2011 at 09:08 AM.
$8.95 back in the 70s equals to how much on this days?
Funny Creed is mentioned in the book War Paint about Helena Rubinstein and Elizabeth Arden. Seems Creed was making clothes in the early 1900's in London. Nothing about fragrance or barbering but making suits for men and women.
Yes, Creed PR represents the transposition of the house's genuine fame as tailors to the field of perfume, a business where they have either no history, or none of any significance either to the company itself or perfumery.
When Olivier Creed launched Creed as one of the first niche brands in the early Seventies he was riding on the wave of retro-fascination with Art Deco era scents (not dissimilar to the current enchantment with Victorian/Belle Epoque scents, cf. Grossmith etc.) and his firm recreated traditional styles: Royal English Leather, a leathery bersion of L'Origan, Tabarôme, a nod to classic Tobacco scents from Habanita to Tabac Blond, a number of classic hesperides and many more. These are not original, but excellent and high quality perfumes which I believe form the basis of Creed's reputation among male perfume aficionados.
With GIT in 1986 came a big break and move towards more modern aquatic styles using trendy 80s/90s synthetics: MI, SMW, Himalaya, then Original Vetiver & Santal etc. - though a few classics were still produced - Bois du Portugal, Neroli Sauvage, Royal Delight. Personally I have no love for MI and Co., though they are widely appreciated.
It seems to me that material quality is now declining rapidly in the older formulas, while new compositions are typical run-of-the mill niche following trends and probably more or less pre-formulated by the big four - with exceptions. Not an untypical development in the business.
Just curious as to the source of the 1975 date for Epicea?
I agree with all the_good_life has written. The only question with regard to the 'truth' of Creed's claims is as to whether, throughout their history, they actually did blend bespoke fragrances for some of their tailoring clients. My understanding is that they have confirmed that before Olivier Creed took over the firm, fragrance was a very small part of what they did (which was tailoring).
Last edited by StewartGallacher; 11th July 2011 at 01:43 PM.
My UK sales: http://www.basenotes.net/threads/396...%29?highlight=
My UK swaps: http://www.basenotes.net/threads/351...%29?highlight=
1975 is the date given by the Osmotheque in Paris, who are too serious to accept PR claptrap. That is also the date that used to be given on the cale.it website (Italian Creed distributors) for the "reformulation" of Royal Scottish Lavender (as in, they took an old lavender formula from a 19th century perfume handbook and dabbled with it).
Btw. I also doubt that Olivier Creed is a perfumer. I see him in the role of Serge Lutens or Kilian Hennessy, not Chris Sheldrake, i.e. creative direction, not actual formula creation.
We have all discussed that Luca Turin book a gazillion times before. Perhaps you didn't notice him complimenting several other Creeds on their quality of materials yet still dishing out 2-3 stars at most? There are many of Luca Turins 4-5* favorites that we can imperiously dismantle with scathing reviews yet I am sure you and him will gladly spend upwards of $100 on those frags because you like to wear them..and thats what counts the most, correct?
Being biased is quite big in academic circles and I should know - like you (assuming you are a real prof) I also hold a Ph.D and spent several years trying to publish papers in the most selective journals in my area and so I am quite familiar with this inbred ivory tower madness that takes place. A glaring welcoming toothy smile and big eye glasses don't impress me much.
It's nothing to be ashamed of, in any case. The creatives are often very well-versed in perfumery, but also bring other skills to bear.
I've heard speculation that Olivia may fill Olivier's shoes as the creative/perfumer/artistic director, with Erwin doing the rest. Who knows? In the world of Creed, truth and fantasy just seem to blend to the point where it's better not to even ask!
Considering the percentage of fabrication in Creed's PR, I wouldn't put it past them to fake such shots - that's the kind of skepticism that is borne from a company's systematic dishonesty about its past and its products. Contrary to the clear case of their non-existent pedigree as perfumers there is no evidence, however, on the question whether OC is a trained or self-taught perfumer or nothing of the sort. Are there pics of Lutens in front of a perfume organ?
I'll counter with a picture. Pierre Bourdon (on the left) and some "creative", working on an early version of Green Irish Tweed. It was a little clumpy, and needed more alcohol.
Those damn creatives! Always getting credit for making stuff, when everybody knows that they merely envision these things that other people actually make. (...or that still other people actually want.)
Take Chanel, of which six in their modest range garner 5 stars in The Guide. Many of the rest have four. Compare that to the Creeds, of which one in fifty perfumes they sell warrants four stars and not a single one has five. Many have one or two. Windsor is twice the price of the Chanel Exclusifs!
If I found them to be better than expected I would be the first to change my opinion, but of the many I've smelled since only one has appealed to me. Royal English Leather is actually a pretty good floral leather, though very similar to others, and considerably less refined. In Turinesque style I'll give it the two-word descriptor of "peach harness."
I'm not impressed by academic credentials. I'm not an academic. Professor Goggles is my cat's name. I don't think Turin is the voice of a perfume God, but his books have introduced me to some incredible perfumes that give me huge enjoyment which I would never have discovered otherwise. What I like most about Luca Turin is that he's extremely knowledgable in his field, without being snobbish or posh. It took him ages to find a journal who would publish his controversial theory of smell, which I would think gives you two something in common.
In his sideline as a perfume critic he casts a critical eye on an industry dominated by outright lies regarding luxury, natural materials, and authorship. His is an independent and refreshingly funny voice ringing out from a chorus of smooth-talking hyperbole. His and Tania's book illustrates that perfume or any criticism is political, working against the ideologies that make companies like Creed possible. So maybe he is a bit biased. I'm sorry if it bores you to sleep.
Last edited by professor goggles; 22nd August 2011 at 11:00 PM.
Hi, I visited The Calè shop in Milano, the italian distributor for Creed. I saw his private collection (of the owner). He has a loooot of vintage bottle, strange bottle (250 ml), after shave bal (white liquid) of Orange spice, a black matte bottle splash (120 ml) of Royal english leather and the vintage white box with 2 red crowns printed on.
I saw, with my eyes, the Creed's story!
Pics or it didn't happen.
Hmmm, one persons steps forward with accounts of "vintage bottle, strange bottle" of Creed yet photographs are forbidden? Out of all the vintage geeks in the world and especially on this forum with all the Creed lovers, this is the only example yet? I'm just a little bit skeptical.
Perhaps Creed's target is the American, Japanese, etc, market and people who collect Diana memorial plates and such.
The Royal English Leather described above sounds similar to this one:
What's the story behind this one, StewartGallacher?
It's not mine, I'm afraid. I'm sure another (highly knowledgeable) member determined that it's from the early 1980s...
Interesting to learn that Orange Spice used to be available as an aftershave balm.
Last edited by StewartGallacher; 9th May 2013 at 08:55 AM.
Pérfume by Calé
Corso Magenta 22 – Milano
Tel +39 02 80 50 94 49
Ive been wondering if the history is fake or not. Anyone have any update on this?
It's a fake.
Of course its real.
As the three noses on your face. LOL
I find this discussion thoroughly entertaining.
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