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  1. #31

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    The myristate group is simply myristic acid (as present in things like palm and coconut oil) as combined with another compound. In this case, one combines isopropyl alcohol (isopropanol) and myristic acid (probably isolated from a vegetable oil source) in the presence of a small amount of sulfuric acid. This removes a hydrogen from the carboxyl ("acid") group on the myristic acid and the -OH (alcohol) group from the isopropanol and joins them together at the "broken spots". (This is an oversimplification, but you can see a step-by-step breakdown here if you're interested.)

    So the resulting substance, isopropyl myristate, isn't "like" isopropanol OR myristic acid, its "parents", any more than water is like hydrogen or oxygen, or salt is like chlorine or sodium (thank goodness for that! *grin*). (Or any more than acetate fabric is "like" the vinegar used in making acetate fibers.)

    I'm more familiar with the abstract chemistry of such things than their use in perfumery, unfortunately, but my guess would be that its either a cosolvent (to actually bring immiscible phases into solution, rather than just emulsifying them as tiny drops) or maybe drying retardant for the alcohol (to prevent as quick a boil-off on the skin, lowering the perceptible "alcohol smell"). Someone else could probably answer that better than me.

    As to whether we want it in our perfumes or not, that comes down to preference, since it's present in small enough quantities not to trigger its only real drawback -- it's a comedogenic. Myself, I think (apologies if I offend -- I mean only to state my personal views) that a "principled" all-organic view is rather silly, since "natural" substances can be and often are more dangerous than synthetics. (Cocaine, anyone? Aflatoxin -- one of the most potent carcinogens known?) There's nothing magical about naturally-derived substances.

    Now, my personal preference in most arts -- and perfumery is no exception -- is to use completely natural things, but just out of an aesthetic bent that way.

  2. #32

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by sehrgut View Post
    Myself, I think (apologies if I offend -- I mean only to state my personal views) that a "principled" all-organic view is rather silly, since "natural" substances can be and often are more dangerous than synthetics. (Cocaine, anyone? Aflatoxin -- one of the most potent carcinogens known?) There's nothing magical about naturally-derived substances.

    Now, my personal preference in most arts -- and perfumery is no exception -- is to use completely natural things, but just out of an aesthetic bent that way.
    I agree in a way when put like that, but in this case of perfumes, if the additives aren't necessary for the resulting perfume, then the 'principled approach' of all organic does no harm if it can be obtained, and therefore only enhances that organic approach.

    Personally I'm not actually opposed to chemicals, I would just like the organic choice without it being made for me.

    That vodka looks like the real thing and i will keep my eyes open for some. I wouldn't like to drink it though.
    Currently wearing: Gilda by Pierre Wulff

  3. #33

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    That vodka looks like the real thing and i will keep my eyes open for some. I wouldn't like to drink it though.
    Certainly worth trying - despite the expense - but seriously don't drink the stuff neat: in a cocktail sure, but not neat.

    That being said I would be interested to know whether you can in fact tell the difference between a perfume made with the vodka and with Mistral's Perfumers' Alcohol: I find that in practice I can't, much as I dislike putting the extra two ingredients on my labels, they really are not altering the scent any more than the alcohol itself does.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  4. #34

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    This is my first posting so if I have broken any rules with the information posted please could the administrator remove it and let me know where I went wrong so that I avoid making the mistake (oh and apologies!). Likewise if it would better appear under a different thread then by all means move it to there.

    -----------------------

    I've managed to find denatured alcohol in the UK at: http://www.thesoapkitchen.co.uk/

    Prices excluding postage are currently:
    100ml £1
    250ml £1.70
    500ml £2.80
    1 litre £4.70
    5 litres £19.50

    -------------------------------------------
    I wrote to see what it is denatured with and they replied to say:

    "Tertiary Butyl Alcohol - 0.1% vol

    Denatonium Benzoate (bitrex?) - added to the resulting mixture in the proportion of 10 microgams per millilitre.

    It is not regarded as being dangerous because it evaporates so quickly when applied to the skin just leaving the scent behind"

    I hope that is true as like all posters here I want my perfume to be safe to use. I'd also prefer my perfumes to be as natural as possible but I've no idea how natural the denaturing agents are. I'm assuming that the other stuff that is routinely added in the UK to make 'perfumers alcohol' isn't actually needed, that just denatured alcohol on its own will do a good job...

    ----------------------------

    There is also 2 notes on the site which are helpful regardless of whether you buy it from this source or not:

    1. THIS PRODUCT REQUIRES A USER AUTHORISATION FROM HMRC BEFORE WE CAN SUPPLY. For customers wishing to order this product who do not yet hold authorisation, an application for is available from HM Revenue & Customs, via their National helpline or from....

    National Registration Unit
    HMRC
    Portcullis House
    21 India Street
    Glasgow
    G2 4PZ

    There is no cost involved in obtaining authorisation. Hobbyists and small businesses may apply to receive 20Lt or less for their own use as a recognised category for authorisation.

    Orders may be placed with us via phone +44 (0)1805 622944. fax: +44 (0)870 4586724, or Email [email protected] and must be accompanied by a copy of your user Authorisation Letter.

    If this product is added to an existing order the shipping cost will be recalculated accordingly.

    -------------------------


    2. INFORMATION FOR TSDA APPLICATIONS

    We are licensed stockists of TSDA (trade specific denatured alcohol) in the form of DEB100, which is used mainly in the manufacture of soaps, toiletries, perfumes, cosmetics etc.. In order that we can supply our customers we require them to be licensed by HMRC themselves and to hold a copy of this license. We will then be able to supply in quantities not exceeding 20Lt up to any annual maximum their license specifies.

    To make your application for a license simpler we have a link to a copy of the application for HERE:
    http://www.thesoapkitchen.co.uk/imag...0or%20TSDA.doc

    Once you've completed the form you need to sent it together with a COVERING LETTER to...

    National Registration Unit
    HMRC
    Portcullis House
    21 India Street
    Glasgow
    G2 4PZ

    Please Note... DEB100 TSDA is not considered suitable as a diluent for room-sprays, so applications for use for this purpose will not be considered.

    -------------------------

    In filling in the application form you might first want to see what the laws currently are so that you stand more chance of being granted the licence. Information can be found throughout the following HMRC webpage:

    http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...yType=document

  5. #35

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Oh, I've just seen further down that Tertiary Butyl Alcohol adds a camphor odour... does that happen even when it is used in as low a concentration as is found in the denatured alcohol from thesoapkitchen (i.e. 0.1% vol)?

  6. #36

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    The odour of tert-butanol is quite fleeting. It's a higher-boiling alcohol than most, but I still don't think it'd last much longer than the "alcohol blast" of any newly-applied fragrance would.

  7. #37

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    I think that 0.1% is quite a lot for a smell. That's EASILY detectable. I've got that kind of denatured alcohol here in Canada from the local drugstore (chemist) and in tests on smell strips, you *can* smell the camphor smell for the first twenty seconds to a minute. Yes it does go away rather quickly, that is true, however this is unacceptable for a perfume, because a very important part of the perfume-smelling experience is that first few seconds when it hits your skin. I'm not talking about the part when the alcohol is evaporating. I mean after that. The camphor smell will definitely be a subtle but present component of your perfume's initial impact when people smell a perfume made with that kind of denatured alcohol. I'd look for something without tert-butanol in it. Otherwise your works will all have that characteristic camphoracious opening.

  8. #38

    Post Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Thanks for sharing your experience about the camphorous odour of tert-butanol even in small concentrations. It's unfortunate as I don't know anywhere selling denatured alcohol without it in the UK where you can just purchase small volumes (or small volumes without humungous postal charges)... by small I mean 1 litre or less.

  9. #39

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Hi Elspeth. I asked that the thread http://www.basenotes.net/threads/261...fumers-alcohol be made a sticky so that it would always be at the top of the DIY section. It has some information about obtaining good ethanol in England. We may still need a definitive answer, though, so keep looking and let us know what you find out. Please consider posting to the sticky thread above so that all the info about getting ethanol is in one place.

  10. #40

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by bshell View Post
    I think that 0.1% is quite a lot for a smell. That's EASILY detectable. I've got that kind of denatured alcohol here in Canada from the local drugstore (chemist) and in tests on smell strips, you *can* smell the camphor smell for the first twenty seconds to a minute. Yes it does go away rather quickly, that is true, however this is unacceptable for a perfume, because a very important part of the perfume-smelling experience is that first few seconds when it hits your skin. I'm not talking about the part when the alcohol is evaporating. I mean after that. The camphor smell will definitely be a subtle but present component of your perfume's initial impact when people smell a perfume made with that kind of denatured alcohol. I'd look for something without tert-butanol in it. Otherwise your works will all have that characteristic camphoracious opening.
    I think it's a case of horses for courses: I find that the Perfumers Alcohol from Mistral works well in many blends - the propylene glycol and isopropyl myristate that it contains as additives are used as solvents for many aroma-chemicals and don't add a lot of scent (though they certainly are detectable). For a fragrance that won't be harmed by the camphor odour (and many will not) then the tertiary butanol additive is OK.

    Only with the most delicate of fragrances do you need to worry and for those, even if you have no other alternatives, duty-paid pure 96% ethanol is always an option.

    I understand that HMRC need to, in their words, protect the revenue from duty but I don't see why just adding Bitrex, which is odourless, isn't considered good enough for that purpose on its own. Anyone know the answer to that?
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  11. #41

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    That's a great question. Exactly why does it need denaturing with TWO things? If it must be denatured, why can't they limit the number of chemicals added to it. I know most of the additives are classed as safe but I'd still feel happier personally with as few additives as possible.

  12. #42

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Hello Elspeth and Chris

    A couple of weeks ago I had a chat with a chemist at one of the UK suppliers (sorry, I've forgotten which one) and he told me the reason we need both tert-butanol and Bitrex to denature ethanol is because while the Bitrex makes the ethanol taste seriously bitter it doesn't, in fact, render it impossible to drink.

    Clearly, this doesn't solve our problem. We still need a supply of reasonably priced odorless ethanol here in the UK.

    I shall continue to keep telephoning suppliers throughout the UK. Maybe somewhere out there lurks a yet-unknowed odorless denatured ethanol. As a retired guy I have plenty of time during the day to spend on the phone.

    I shall let you all know.

    All the best.

    Warmest regards
    Bill
    "All art begins and ends with integrity. Without integrity there can be no art." Kimon NicolaÔdes

  13. #43

    Join Date
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    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    In my (difficult) quest for a volume of ethanol that's less than a truckload (which seems to be the minimum order quantity at most places), i've come across a supplier than claims to sell "spraying alcohol". After enquiring about it, the seller claims that it's 99% ethanol. Is this acceptable for DIY perfumery ? The price is not bad either...

    BTW im from South Africa.

  14. #44

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Johannesburg, South Africa
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    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    I forgot to mention that the supplier has a soap business and explicitly claims that the alcohol is for making perfume.

  15. #45

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    To MoPAT: Keep in mind that "pure" ethanol for perfumery is not 99%. It is 95%. The rest is water. When manufacturers attempt to get alcohol more pure than 95% they have to use special chemistry techniques involving the use of solvents such as benzene to get ethanol higher than 95%, of which traces are very likely in the alcohol. These may have a smell. You should find out from the supplier if it is truly 99%, and if it is, then what's in the other 1%, and finally, can you get a tiny 1ml sample to smell before you buy one or more litres of it. Actually, you don't even need 1ml. Even 0.2ml is enough. You just need a sniff. If you can get to the place and just ask him to bring out a tissue which had some of the ethanol dropped on it. So bottom line: smell before you buy.

  16. #46

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Smell before you buy is good advice.

    Just to add that the chemical techniques normally involved in making anhydrous alcohol may make it poisonous as well as smell bad (it usually has benzene left in it, which is poisonous both by ingestion and by skin absorption so totally unsuitable for perfumery).

    I bet the supplier in this case means 96% (the maximum you can distil to without using the methods bshell mentions - some authorities quote 95%, most 96% but never more) - anhydrous ethanol (with no water) is much more expensive to make and mainly used as a fuel additive.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  17. #47

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    For those in Europe, who may not have spotted it Mistral, the UK’s principal supplier of Perfumer’s Alcohol to the amateur trade, now also stock Formulator’s Alcohol - they have not made it very obvious - you won’t find it if you click the link for Alcohols for example. Anyway it may be of interest to those who dislike the Isopropyl myristate in PA. The downside is that there is some IPA (along with DPG) in the Formulator’s and you can smell it, though not strongly: it is in any case always good to have choices!

    Thinking about it, I’ll put the link in the suppliers thread too.
    Last edited by Chris Bartlett; 31st January 2012 at 11:39 PM.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  18. #48

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    I use isopropyl myristate at 2% in my heavy creams/moisturisers. It helps the oils to sink into the skin so the product is less greasy but I'm careful which products I put it in. Its true its comedogenic so I only include it for people with very dry skin (to which I also add butters like shea and cocoa butter which are also comedogenic but v moisturising). I would be interested to know what % IPM is included.

    Would be interested to know your thoughts on using cyclomethicone as a carrier instead? I use it in my creams at 4% - makes the cream spread very nicely, makes it slightly less oily and its a good scent carrier and evaporates.

  19. #49

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by itunu View Post
    I would be interested to know what % IPM is included.

    Would be interested to know your thoughts on using cyclomethicone as a carrier instead? I use it in my creams at 4% - makes the cream spread very nicely, makes it slightly less oily and its a good scent carrier and evaporates.
    Isopropyl myristate
    The supplier lists these ingredients in the MSDS:

    Ethanol Cas No. 64-17-5 >80%
    Monopropylene glycol Cas No. 57-55-6 1-5%
    Isopropyl myristate Cas No. 110-27-0 1-5%

    My guess, for what it’s worth, is that is it’s nearer 1% than 5%.

    Cyclomethicone
    I’ve mentioned in a few posts the option to use cyclomethicone - it’s used by some makers as an alternative to ethanol that is practical to use in a spray.

    It has three advantages over ethanol:
    1) It isn’t as flammable and does not qualify as HazChem under the EU rules
    2) It isn’t considered prohibited even by strict Muslim practice
    3) It does not cool or dry the skin as it evaporates.

    On the other side of the coin:
    1) It does not carry the scent out into the air as well
    2) May leave (usually short-lived) greasy marks on clothing when sprayed
    3) The solubility of aroma-chemicals and natural oils in it is nothing like as widely known as it is with ethanol so you’d need to experiment.
    4) It isn’t as widely available or as cheap in bulk.

    It’s good to have choices!
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  20. #50

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    Isopropyl myristate Cyclomethicone
    I’ve mentioned in a few posts the option to use cyclomethicone - it’s used by some makers as an alternative to ethanol that is practical to use in a spray.

    It has three advantages over ethanol:
    1) It isn’t as flammable and does not qualify as HazChem under the EU rules
    2) It isn’t considered prohibited even by strict Muslim practice
    3) It does not cool or dry the skin as it evaporates.

    On the other side of the coin:
    1) It does not carry the scent out into the air as well
    2) May leave (usually short-lived) greasy marks on clothing when sprayed
    3) The solubility of aroma-chemicals and natural oils in it is nothing like as widely known as it is with ethanol so you’d need to experiment.
    4) It isn’t as widely available or as cheap in bulk.

    It’s good to have choices!
    Actually the piece of information above is not quite correct.
    Cyclomethicone is not 1 singular substance. It's the common name given to cyclic (circular) silicones or siloxanes of low molecular weight that evaporate quickly (also known as D4, D5 or D6). All are known to be combustible and flammable liquids.
    http://www.cyclosiloxanes.eu/
    Also there are some environmental concerns regarding biodegradability.
    I would certainly take that into consideration when making an well informed choice.

  21. #51

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Actually the piece of information above is not quite correct.
    Cyclomethicone is not 1 singular substance. It's the common name given to cyclic (circular) silicones or siloxanes of low molecular weight that evaporate quickly (also known as D4, D5 or D6). All are known to be combustible and flammable liquids.
    http://www.cyclosiloxanes.eu/
    Also there are some environmental concerns regarding biodegradability.
    I would certainly take that into consideration when making an well informed choice.
    I will certainly concede that the information I provided was incomplete, but I don’t see what it is you think was inaccurate?

    Cyclomethicone is indeed a silicone oil one of D4, D5 or D6 or more usually a mixture of these such as this one.

    For the chemically minded: Cyclomethicone is a fully methylated cyclic siloxane containing repeating units of the formula:
    [–(CH3)2SiO–]n,
    in which n is 4, 5, or 6,or a mixture of them.

    They are all three flammable, but there are degrees of flammability, measured by the flash point - flash points for cyclomethicones vary from 57-82 C while the flashpoint of ethanol is in the 13-14 C range: vastly more flammable, which is why it has to be labeled with the flame symbol and is subject to HazMat transport restrictions. Cyclomethicone does not and is not.

    The following abstract is taken from the MSDS for one of the cyclomethicone mixtures produced by Dow:


    Not hazardous according to Council Directive 1999/45/EC and its subsequent amendments.

    . . .

    Road / Rail (ADR/RID)
    Not subject to ADR/RID.
    Sea transport (IMDG)
    Not subject to IMDG code.
    Air transport (IATA)
    Not subject to IATA regulations.

    . . .

    Low molecular weight volatile siloxanes have very low water solubility and evaporate to air. Low molecular weight volatile siloxanes in air are degraded by reaction with hydroxyl radicals, which is the dominant degradation process for most chemicals in the atmosphere. Low molecular weight volatile siloxanes in soil are removed by several simultaneously occurring processes including volatilisation, hydrolysis, and clay-catalysed degradation.
    Now there may well be controversy about the biodegradability question and I certainly don’t claim to be aware of all the details but the statement above is supported by the detailed data presented on the CES site to which you linked. The Good Guide, no friend to the cosmetics industry and critical of many ingredients also seem to find nothing of concern.

    I’m still struggling to find anything I said which was incorrect . . .
    Last edited by Chris Bartlett; 1st February 2012 at 12:38 PM. Reason: added link to Dow site with MSDS
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  22. #52

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Just a quick reply as I'm pressed of time, but I promise to get back to you very soon on this.

  23. #53

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Sorry, Chris, you are absolutely right, I meant incomplete not incorrect, I should have read better (stupid trying to reply in a hurry). Was also only reacting to the 1).

    There are some considerations. The data on the biodegradability of the volatile siloxanes is ongoing. There are some very recent toxicological studies that the cyclic structure may impose a threat on pregnant mice (increasing the chances on miscarriage). (sorry can't find a public internet source for this one).
    Also some suppliers don't longer ship these siloxanes by air due to low flashpoint (you are right still better than ethanol!).

    So I would say there are plenty of other less controversial choices than cyclomethicone like other non-cyclic siloxanes and light carrier oils like caprylic/capric triglycerides.

    Here are some interesting links:

    biodegradability

    newest findings 2011
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21438524

    latest canadian findings 2010-2011
    http://www.ec.gc.ca/ese-ees/default....n&n=2754DD2F-1

    latest UK findings 2009 (more data is needed)
    http://publications.environment-agen...09BPQX-E-E.pdf

    leaded to data 2010 (still concerns)
    http://ec.europa.eu/health/scientifi...sccs_o_029.pdf

    findings northern europe 2005
    http://nordicscreening.org/index.php...portfile&pid=4


    flammability is linked to volatility (cyclomethicones are volatile siloxanes) thus flammability
    http://www.personalcaremagazine.com/...spx?Story=9021
    leading to
    http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2010/0144897.html

    older information on volatile siloxanes being flammable
    http://www.dowcorning.com/content/pu...52-1034-01.pdf

    and because of that being lower than 200 F some (small) cosmetic suppliers don’t longer ship this by air:
    http://www.lotioncrafter.com/reference/msds_995.pdf
    Last edited by Irina; 2nd February 2012 at 02:55 PM. Reason: pregnant women should be pregnant mice!

  24. #54

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    isopropyl myristate (IPM) is used in making fragrance oils and is widely used as a diluent for essential oils and aroma chemicals. I wouldn't use it as a face moisturizer or even body moisturizer but to dilute aromas, or for making a roll on perfume i feel its fine. Its a more acceptable base than Diethyl phthalate (DEP). isopropyl myristate is not isopropyl alcohol. Isopropyl alcohol is rubbing alcohol.

  25. #55

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    I'm a newbie. Can you explain why anyone in the U.S. would want to use something other than 190 proof Everclear?
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  26. #56

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    I'm a newbie. Can you explain why anyone in the U.S. would want to use something other than 190 proof Everclear?
    Denatured alcohol is much cheaper because it's not taxed as much as drinkable alcohol. If price wasn't a factor then of course you'd use the Everclear.

  27. #57

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    You say "of course" because...?

    I'm just trying to make sure I understand. Are you saying Everclear is higher quality than denatured alcohol? I'm planning on using Everclear, mostly out of convenience. I live a few blocks away from a liquor store where it's easily available. I think it's 750ml for $15.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  28. #58

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Well the denaturants are really there to stop you from drinking it. Everclear (by which I really mean any generic non-denatured 96% ethanol) will do the same job as denatured alcohol, plus it doesn't have the initial slight smell that the denaturants add. So for me, it's better. The denatured alcohol I use, from Mistral, has some other stuff in it too which is the original topic of this thread. I'd rather they weren't in it at all.

    In Europe I can get 5 litres of denatured alcohol for EUR 37.99. The cheapest non-denatured 96% ethanol I can find works out more than twice as expensive as that for the same amount. I actually use both, but the denatured is okay for practice blends etc.

  29. #59

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    If you only need small quantities of ethanol it's fairly easy to distil vodka - which is approx 40% etoh and 60% water - yourself.

    You will need:

    1: A suitable flask

    2: Claisen stillhead and thermometer

    3: Condenser and water pump. (I use a fish tank pump)

    4: Receiving flask (anything will do)

    5: Clamps to hold it all together

    6: The cheapest vodka you can find

    7: A quick read of Zubrick's 'The organic chem lab survival guide' to keep you safe. (pdf available on line)

    That'll give you a 95% ethanol/water azeotrope. It's possible to make 100% ethanol by drying the mixture, but you probably don't need to do that.

    It's best to use a 'quickfit' all glass setup, 'cos if you use rubber bungs everything will smell of rubber...
    With a little patience you should be able to find everything for about £30 on e-bay.

    And with a little modification the same setup can also be used for steam distillation, which is nice.

    I don't know if the link will work, but here we are steam distilling orange oil:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/2478957...n/photostream/

    And, yes, I know he's not wearing safety glasses - that's 'cos we hadn't started yet.

    -
    Last edited by Skelly; 20th January 2013 at 01:13 PM. Reason: typos

  30. #60

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Skelly View Post
    If you only need small quantities of ethanol it's fairly easy to distil vodka - which is approx 40% etoh and 60% water - yourself.

    You will need:

    1: A suitable flask

    2: Claisen stillhead and thermometer

    3: Condenser and water pump. (I use a fish tank pump)

    4: Receiving flask (anything will do)

    5: Clamps to hold it all together

    6: The cheapest vodka you can find

    7: A quick read of Zubrick's 'The organic chem lab survival guide' to keep you safe. (pdf available on line)

    That'll give you a 95% ethanol/water azeotrope. It's possible to make 100% ethanol by drying the mixture, but you probably don't need to do that.

    It's best to use a 'quickfit' all glass setup, 'cos if you use rubber bungs everything will smell of rubber...
    With a little patience you should be able to find everything for about £30 on e-bay.

    And with a little modification the same setup can also be used for steam distillation, which is nice.

    I don't know if the link will work, but here we are steam distilling orange oil:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/2478957...n/photostream/

    And, yes, I know he's not wearing safety glasses - that's 'cos we hadn't started yet.

    -
    I'm sure that's all correct, however do keep in mind that distilling ethanol in the UK requires a licence and payment of duty to HMRC - other countries have different rules about this and in some places it is perfectly legal to distill your own ethanol but in the UK it is a criminal offence. Definitely not something to post pictures of!

    There is no restriction on distilling your own essential oils, though the volumes of most materials required to get more than a teaspoonful of oil make it impractical for most people to do on a domestic scale - citrus might be an exception as it's quite oil-rich - it isn't something I've tried myself.
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