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  1. #91

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    I just went and looked online at golden bough, and I can see no alcohol for sale there.

    I have ordered some online from a couple of places, on in the US and one in Canada. The one in Canada I ordered from is Voyageur, and the US one is a seller on Ebay.

  2. #92

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    If I lived in Edmonton, I could buy Everclear at the Liquor Depot and have it delivered. LOL

    Unfortunately, I live on Vancouver Island, and lots of things are hard to get here, not just perfumer's alcohol.

  3. #93

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    It's possible Golden Bough doesn't carry perfumer's alcohol any more. You should phone them and check. They don't publish everything they sell online.

    The alcohol from Voyageur is no good for perfumery. Here is the description from their website:

    "This alcohol is an SDA 2A, denatured with methanol making it dangerous to consume. Components:
    85.5% Ethyl Alcohol
    13.7% Methanol
    .85% Ethyl Acetate"

    It cannot be emphasized enough how important it is to get pure 95% ethanol to make perfume (the other 5% is water). We say it again and again. The "good" denatured stuff which has nothing but a few ppm of Bitrex is OK, but not as good as pure ethanol, which can be obtained with a bit of effort. If you are in British Columbia then you can get it easily in Alberta or Washington state.

  4. #94

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    The one I ordered on Ebay is anhydrous alcohol, denatured with some bitrex. I am going to do a comparison.

  5. #95
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    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by bshell View Post
    13.7% Methanol
    As Barry mentions, unsuitable for perfumery.
    It is, however, suitable for poisoning those who put it on their skin.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  6. #96

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    I have looked and looked, and cannot find anything that restricts methyl alcohol or methanol in perfumery. IFRA, nothing. The only thing I find is in regards to taxation in the EU, they restrict it in perfumes because it is too easily removed from perfumes to make pure ethanol that has no tracers so they can tell if it used to be denatured alcohol. It is restricted because of this, not because of skin toxicity. We all have some methanol in our bodies, we produce it ourselves. Does anyone have anything definitive from any authority that bans it in perfumes? It is used in all kinds of processes to actually make perfume ingredients, but that is different. I am looking for anything at all that lists it for how much is allowable or if it is completely banned. Any help?


    Edit: I found this: "Methyl Alcohol is an aliphatic alcohol with use in a few cosmetic formulations as a solvent and denaturant. Concentrations up to 5% are typically used to denature ethyl alcohol in cosmetic products. Methyl Alcohol is readily absorbed through the skin and from the gastrointestinal and respiratory tracts, is distributed throughout all organs and tissues (in direct relation to the body's water distribution), and is eliminated primarily via the lungs. Undiluted Methyl Alcohol is an ocular and skin irritant. Inhalation studies showed a no-effect level for maternal damage of 10,000 ppm and for teratogenic effects of 5,000 ppm. Overall, Methyl Alcohol is not considered mutagenic. Carcinogenicity data were unavailable. The toxicity of Methyl Alcohol in humans results from the metabolism of the alcohol to formate and formic acid through a formaldehyde intermediate. Formate accumulation causes metabolic acidosis and inhibits cellular respiration. Methyl Alcohol toxicity is time and concentration dependent, and its toxic effect is competitively inhibited with ethyl alcohol. Because of the moderating effect of ethyl alcohol, it was concluded that Methyl Alcohol is safe as used to denature ethyl alcohol used in cosmetic products. No conclusion was reached regarding any other use of Methyl Alcohol."

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11358111

  7. #97
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    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Well, by all means, let's have the first person die from wearing Perfumes...

    https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1174890-overview

    WHO Report:

    Methanol poisoning outbreaksJuly 2014Key facts

    Toxicity
    Methanol is well-absorbed through the gastrointestinal tract and is also absorbed through the skin and by inhalation. Methanol is only mildly inebriating; its toxic effects arise from itsmetabolism to formaldehyde and formic acid. Humans have limited ability to detoxifyformic acid and this metabolite therefore accumulates and causes toxic effects.

    The toxic dose of methanol varies depending on the individual and on the provision oftreatment. Blood methanol concentrations above 500 mg/L are associated with severetoxicity, and concentrations above 1500-2000 mg/L will lead to death in untreated patients.

    • Methanol is a widely available chemical with a range of uses including as a solvent, inchemical synthesis and as a fuel.
    • Methanol has a relatively low intrinsic toxicity, however, it is metabolised to highlytoxic compounds, which can cause blindness, coma and metabolic disturbances thatcan be life-threatening .
    • Victims often only seek medical care after a significant delay, mainly because thereis a latent period between ingestion and toxic effects. Late medical care contributesto the high level of morbidity and mortality seen in many methanol poisoningoutbreaks.
    • Outbreaks of methanol poisoning occur when methanol is added to illicitly- orinformally-produced alcoholic drinks.
    • Because patients with methanol poisoning often need intensive medical care,outbreaks of methanol poisoning can rapidly overwhelm medical facilities.



    Are you willing to take the liability for including Methanol in your perfumes?

    The Perfume Industry doesn't use an alcohol denaturant too much any longer, simply based on the fears over phthalates, and DEP isn't even a risk.
    BUT METHANOL is a huge risk, of blindness and death.

    Please don't be so dumb and selfish to use an alcohol containing Methanol.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  8. #98

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Something is really wrong somewhere, for this to keep happening with the 'organic' heater fluid to people who have spent good money on oils. Propane and kerosene are organic too, right? Why do people know not to use them?
    There must be a instructional website somewhere listing biofuel as a good alternative to ethanol, right?

  9. #99

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Thea in Fl View Post
    Something is really wrong somewhere, for this to keep happening with the 'organic' heater fluid to people who have spent good money on oils. Propane and kerosene are organic too, right? Why do people know not to use them?
    There must be a instructional website somewhere listing biofuel as a good alternative to ethanol, right?
    Cost and availability. You go looking for denatured ethanol and you find these industrial grade solvents at about a sixth of the price. Of course you explore whether they're an acceptable alternative.

  10. #100

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    I am not willing to take the liability for putting *anything* in my perfumes that will be dangerous. The only thing I can find about methanol in perfumes that would be considered dangerous by any governmental authority is when people distill them to drink them. I am gobsmacked that anyone would do that with an expensive perfume, it's far cheaper to buy actual alcohol. That is why I am asking the questions. And exploring the information available. I do understand that *ingesting* methanol is highly dangerous, but can find no information to suggest that the small amounts in a spritz of perfume are very terrible. The only other kinds of ethanol I can find in Canada are anhydrous 99.88% alcohol with bitrex and no other ingredient listed, although there must be something else. These are also sold as perfumers alcohol. The one I ordered on Ebay is from Save on Scents in the US. I have read on this forum that 100 alcohol is not required, but I am unable to find anything that is denatured with simply water. I have also read on this forum that is is not a good thing to add any water to perfumes at all. This is why I am asking the questions, so that I do not end up being dumb and selfish.

  11. #101

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Water is not a denaturant.

  12. #102

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    So, Good Scents says SDA 39C is not for fragrance use: http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1685281.html

    But Coach uses this in their fragrance: https://www.mstantrum.com/coach-frag...parfum-review/

    I was thinking that if a commercial perfumer uses it, it would be safe, so I double checked, and it is not recommended. I don't know why it's not.

    Edit: Found this, says what is permitted in the US for cosmetics with this alcohol:

    "Denatonium Benzoate, t-Butyl Alcohol, Diethyl Phthalate, Methyl Alcohol, Salicylic Acid, Sodium Salicylate, and Methyl Salicylate are examples of denaturants permitted for use by the TTB and concluded to be safe for use in cosmetics. Other countries have different rules on allowed denaturants so when formulating you should check with local regulations. Specific denatured alcohols containing these denaturants that are permitted for use in U.S. cosmetics and personal care products are SD Alcohol 3-A, SD Alcohol 30, SD Alcohol 39-B, SD Alcohol 39-C, SD Alcohol 40-B and SD Alcohol 40-C."


    https://cosmeticsinfo.org/ingredient/sd-alcohol-39-c


    " The Panel considered that the adverse effects known to be associated with Alcohol ingestion included in this safety assessment do not suggest a concern for Alcohol Denat. or SD Alcohols because of the presence of the denaturants, which are added for the express purpose of making the Alcohol unpotable. The CIR Expert Panel has previously conducted safety assessments of t-Butyl Alcohol, Diethyl Phthalate, Methyl Alcohol, Salicylic Acid, Sodium Salicylate, and Methyl Salicylate, in which each was affirmed safe or safe with qualifications. Given their use as denaturants are at low concentrations of use in Alcohol, the CIR Expert Panel determined that Alcohol Denat. denatured with t-Butyl Alcohol, Diethyl Phthalate, Methyl Alcohol, Salicylic Acid, Sodium Salicylate, and Methyl Salicylate is safe as used in cosmetic formulations with no qualifications. Likewise, because they are denatured with either t-Butyl Alcohol, Diethyl Phthalate, or Methyl Alcohol, SD Alcohols 3-A, 30, 39-B, 39-C, and 40-C all are considered safe as used. "

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18569160

  13. #103

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Deedee42 View Post
    So, Good Scents says SDA 39C is not for fragrance use: http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1685281.html
    Probably because it doesn't have much of a fragrance. It says the same thing for 40-C.

  14. #104
    Basenotes Member Miasma27's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Thank you for this-

    Another very confusing notion regarding ethanol is "proof". 200 proof should not be used in perfumery because it contains traces of Benzene which is carcinogenic. The most anyone would use is 190proof, which is 95% ethanol, the highest concentration that can be obtained via distillation due to the azeotrope ethanol forms with water. i.e. practically usable ethanol in perfumery must always have 5% water in it. To be exact 4.4% water.


    This is quite a long thread I'm glad the above info was noted I was looking at 200proof perfumers alcohol on eBay was a bit pricey but had great reviews. BUT if what your saying about 200proof containing benzene I think I'll pass..that and I'm in the states so I think I just go with 190p everclear I think a handle of it is about 20$

    Again thank you everyone for the info it's very appreciated,
    I don't want to get anyone sick or have any issues and don't want to waste ingredients i barely have the cash for.
    Last edited by Miasma27; 19th March 2019 at 01:37 AM. Reason: Stupid spelling...or is it the everclear?

  15. #105

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Components in the different sda's and allowable uses:

    https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...ml#seqnum21.33

  16. #106

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Deedee42 View Post
    Components in the different sda's and allowable uses:

    https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...ml#seqnum21.33
    I'm not in US, but that's great information, thank you!

  17. #107

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    There must be something similar in everyone's respective countries.

  18. #108

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Miasma27 View Post
    200 proof should not be used in perfumery because it contains traces of Benzene which is carcinogenic.
    I'm a little confused on this one. Shouldn't 200 proof alcohol, by definition, be 100% ethanol? Disregarding the hygroscopic absorption of water, of course. If there's a presence of benzene, wouldn't the alcohol then be 199 / 199.5 / whatever / proof?

  19. #109
    Basenotes Member Miasma27's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    No sorry my mistake, should have posted/pasted there username..but sounds like they are correct to me. Got my everclear Sunday for 17$ for a decent size bottle suits me fine.

    Originally Posted by bshell-

    About the 200% and benzene. And thank you Bshell for the info!

  20. #110

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    I tried searching and couldn't locate an answer, I know that what we should use should be 190 proof but here in the UK the only ones available from outlets such as mistralni are denatured with other additives.
    Has anyone successfully located a supplier in the UK?
    I only require it for some perfume DIY
    Also is the below any good:
    https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/p/...czy-half-litre
    Or
    https://www.randallscandles.co.uk/pr...umers-alcohol/

  21. #111
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    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by farenheit View Post
    I tried searching and couldn't locate an answer, I know that what we should use should be 190 proof but here in the UK the only ones available from outlets such as mistralni are denatured with other additives.
    Has anyone successfully located a supplier in the UK?
    I only require it for some perfume DIY
    Also is the below any good:
    https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/p/...czy-half-litre
    Or
    https://www.randallscandles.co.uk/pr...umers-alcohol/
    Trade-specific denatured alcohols in the UK are relatively difficult to come by, whereas 'perfumers' alcohols are easy to come by. Why are the additives an issue for you? What exactly are you looking for if you don't want it to contain denaturants, and why? (Note, isopropyl myristate/monopropylene glycol are not denaturants)

    If you're going down the DIY perfume route, either of the choices you listed or the choice from Mistralni would work fine. They're pretty low odour and remove some of the thinking you might need to do with respect to fixatives or regulating rate of evaporation, with the exception of the 95% Polish spirits from thewhiskyexchange. They'll give a good representation of your formulation in a more trade-specific ethanol base.

    If you're looking at the regulations surrounding purchasing/storage of ethanol/flammable liquids etc. have a look at the HSE website. Also check out the grades of denatured alcohols - you'll see that for perfumes (usually TSDA-1), they're still denatured. The likelihood is the denatured ethanol used in the cheap options (without requirement of a HMRC licence) is CDA, or completely denatured alcohol. Look into that too.

  22. #112

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Benz3ne View Post
    Trade-specific denatured alcohols in the UK are relatively difficult to come by, whereas 'perfumers' alcohols are easy to come by. Why are the additives an issue for you? What exactly are you looking for if you don't want it to contain denaturants, and why? (Note, isopropyl myristate/monopropylene glycol are not denaturants)

    If you're going down the DIY perfume route, either of the choices you listed or the choice from Mistralni would work fine. They're pretty low odour and remove some of the thinking you might need to do with respect to fixatives or regulating rate of evaporation, with the exception of the 95% Polish spirits from thewhiskyexchange. They'll give a good representation of your formulation in a more trade-specific ethanol base.

    If you're looking at the regulations surrounding purchasing/storage of ethanol/flammable liquids etc. have a look at the HSE website. Also check out the grades of denatured alcohols - you'll see that for perfumes (usually TSDA-1), they're still denatured. The likelihood is the denatured ethanol used in the cheap options (without requirement of a HMRC licence) is CDA, or completely denatured alcohol. Look into that too.
    Thanks for this, i guess i'll settle for Mistralni etc
    Only reason i asked because i have some "dupe" oils from Universal/APO which i would like to convert to sprays and im assuming these concentrated oils come in DPG and thought itd just get more diluted <- i could be wrong as im no expert or chemist!
    Out of curiosity, if i were to make an extrait (of these oils) would the overall percentage of oils be 40% (& 60% alcohol)? And would that alter the scent in anyway.?

  23. #113
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    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by farenheit View Post
    Thanks for this, i guess i'll settle for Mistralni etc
    Only reason i asked because i have some "dupe" oils from Universal/APO which i would like to convert to sprays and im assuming these concentrated oils come in DPG and thought itd just get more diluted <- i could be wrong as im no expert or chemist!
    Out of curiosity, if i were to make an extrait (of these oils) would the overall percentage of oils be 40% (& 60% alcohol)? And would that alter the scent in anyway.?
    Yes, it could be (eg) 40% in DPG or DEP. Therefore, if you dilute it further you'll reach a lower concentration, just as if you diluted a pure (100% concentration) down to 30% for a Parfum, again for example.

    Perhaps run some of your own experiments? The perfumers' alcohol is cheap, you can practice drop-wise. Maybe try out 1 drop oil to 9 drops alcohol, mix and test. Then you can give it a go with 2:8 for 20% concentration of your 'oil', 3:17 for 15% etc. Droppers are cheap, you can rinse and reuse little glass beakers (also cheap) and it'd give you a feel for the oil (or types of oil) you tend to use?

    I couldn't comment on the alteration of the scent, you might lose some notes quicker after application if they're particularly volatile, in which case your fragrance might 'transform' or 'dry down' differently to what it does as the concentrated 'oil'. You might prefer it that way!

    By all means, give it a go though. Experiments are for the curious, which you clearly are! Be sure to check back in as someone else might have a similar question down the line and you'll be able to offer your anecdotal evidence therein!

  24. #114

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Adding a solvent to an oil or dpg based perfume will alter the scent from where the designer has intended because the rate of its evaporation will be different. Oils hug the skin and solvents evaporate from it faster. I would imagine these to be slow release designed skin huggers if they were meant to sit in an oily base.

    The dilution result you obtain depends entirely on the creators own dilution in the first place.

    If I were designing an oil based perfume compared to an ethanol one, I would certainly make my blends slightly differently. The more delicate top notes would have to be increased in the oily blend to do battle with the more tenuous base notes. The ethanol version would free these top notes initially, and make the top notes appear stronger so I might be inclined to use less, or increase the strength of the base notes.

    I would imagine diluting these you speak of, would make their top notes seem more pronounced. It may be a pleasant surprise.

    Only IMHO.... (I haven't tried with theirs).
    The PONK club - gymnosium for perfumers (NOTE:- All club matters still on hold whilst I care for my dad now.)

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  25. #115
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    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Hi Mumsy!
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  26. #116

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Thanks all for your responses, very intriguing.
    The oils are "renditions" of niche perfumes from places such as APO (Arabian perfume oils in the UK) or Universal perfumes and cosmetics in Kuwait.
    I believe they're concentrated oils of the desired niche fragrance but suitable for use on the skin.
    Out of curiousity if I added this oil to say everclear or a polish 95% alcohol would the result be better and less diluted?

  27. #117
    Super Member Faceless void's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    what can I add to soften the smell of alcohol ? I use 96% and alcoho absolute, both of them smell so strong

  28. #118

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Can anyone advise if I can use the following as I know someone in a school (science dept):
    http://www.betterequipped.co.uk/etha...-prd5312p-1518
    I think it has bitrex in it.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  29. #119
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    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by farenheit View Post
    Can anyone advise if I can use the following as I know someone in a school (science dept):
    http://www.betterequipped.co.uk/etha...-prd5312p-1518
    I think it has bitrex in it.
    I looked it over, and could not see any notation on contents, except the ETOH. It *might* work, it might not, due to it's own odor, but worth a shot.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  30. #120

    Default Re: A question regarding the use of isopropyl myristate in perfumers alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    I looked it over, and could not see any notation on contents, except the ETOH. It *might* work, it might not, due to it's own odor, but worth a shot.
    I had a sniff of it this morning and it just smelt like ethanol to me
    I'm not expert so i asked the technician who confirmed it just smelt like ethanol. Will get another member of staff to do a smell test
    It didn't however smell like the kind of alcoholic smell you get from a cheap perfume if that helps?
    (Just to add, i dont drink so have no idea lol)
    O.K update,
    I asked the department head for science who said that they smell a very very faint nail polish kinda smell, but the kind that would evaporate on application?
    This is so confusing!
    Its either Mistrals or this




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