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  1. #181
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    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    .... (what the heck is going on? Post don't post, reposting doesn't post, then a new post posts with all the others!
    Last edited by kbe; 21st October 2010 at 09:50 PM.
    'Those who grow too big for their pants will be exposed in the end'--anon

  2. #182
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    Last edited by kbe; 21st October 2010 at 09:49 PM.
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  3. #183
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    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    I looked at the pile of rocks available, rembered some of my own regrettable statements in the past, and was uncomfortable enough not to be able pick one up to hurl.
    'Those who grow too big for their pants will be exposed in the end'--anon

  4. #184

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Mon-Petit View Post
    It is simple un nègre is a nigger, a pejorative term (for less pejorative we use "un noir"). Plus it's all the sentence he said, who was even MORE pejorative and colonialist: travailler comme un négre, working as a nigger... It's a totally colonialist expression who refers directly to slavery.
    There's "nègre" and "nègre". There's "nègre" as in "La Revue Nègre" with Josephine Baker and then there's "nègre" as pejorative.

    Yes, "nègre" can be pejorative, and sometimes equivalent to the american N-word; but for a while, it was also the plain term the French used for anybody hailing from Africa. That's why my Petit Robert says the word is "Vieilli ou Péjoratif: Personne de race noire (...)". "Nègre" was also used to decribe African slaves, hence perhaps one reason why people eventually objected to the term.

    On the other hand "négro" IS the French N-word. One that's only "Péjoratif" and categorized as "injure raciste".

    The problem I have with what JPG said is not the word "nègre", unlike many here. It's when he says "I don't know if they every worked." People should stop hunting the evil words, and look for the ideas instead. In my opinion, his stupidity is much clearly visible therein than in the ambiguous (dated? racist?) usage of the word "nègre".

    BTW, I'm a francophone Montrealer.

  5. #185

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by MHV View Post
    There's "nègre" and "nègre". There's "nègre" as in "La Revue Nègre" with Josephine Baker and then there's "nègre" as pejorative.

    Yes, "nègre" can be pejorative, and sometimes equivalent to the american N-word; but for a while, it was also the plain term the French used for anybody hailing from Africa. That's why my Petit Robert says the word is "Vieilli ou Péjoratif: Personne de race noire (...)". "Nègre" was also used to decribe African slaves, hence perhaps one reason why people eventually objected to the term.

    On the other hand "négro" IS the French N-word. One that's only "Péjoratif" and categorized as "injure raciste".

    The problem I have with what JPG said is not the word "nègre", unlike many here. It's when he says "I don't know if they every worked." People should stop hunting the evil words, and look for the ideas instead. In my opinion, his stupidity is much clearly visible therein than in the ambiguous (dated? racist?) usage of the word "nègre".

    BTW, I'm a francophone Montrealer.
    Thanks for the explanation of the French terms.

    Not to excuse the expression he used, but I took the meaning of what he said "I don't know if a nigger ever worked that hard-- not literally as "(they) never worked"; rather it would be like me saying "When I heard there was a bottle of Windsor sitting on a rack at Marshalls with a $9.95 price tag on it, well, Usain Bolt never ran that fast!" That seems to fit the spirit of what he was saying.

  6. #186

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Guyer View Post
    I find the meaning expressed by Jean Paul Guerlain's words to be one and the same as the one that is implied by certain Tea Party members when they complain that President Obama takes too many golf vacations. Why doesn't the media call them out like they did with Guerlain?
    I really wasn't going to respond to this thread.. But... How different the tune was four years ago when a different president was being criticized for his leisure time. And the media has not called the Tea Partiers out? The media has propagated this racist nonsense, tried to hang a bunch of innocent folks out to dry, because of "implications" that do not exist. However, enough has been said about the actual lack of racial motivation behind and within the Tea Party now that I'd like to think people are realizing what a bunch of made-up nonsense it is, and that associating two very different groups of people with each other is holding less and less water (and there are, of course, many of us for whom it has never held any water.)

    Ya know, it used to be that skinheads defined the ugliness that is racism, and right now the media is trying to define it by a bunch of people who disagree with the same stuff they've always disagreed with. The one image that keeps coming into my mind as I read the responses in this thread is that of the New Black Panther man screaming about wanting to "kill crackers and their babies," and how our attorney general, and our media, responded. So here it is. As far as JPG goes, and as far as the standards by which he is judged are concerned, there is a big difference between being ignorant and being racist. And no one has earned the right to be hateful.

  7. #187

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    It's very convenient to define racims in terms of a KKK caricature, but racism these days is usually far more subtle. I can not say whether JPG is a racist or a senile old man, but he used what was a conventional turn of phrase in an age when racism was the convention and deeply ingrained within the quotidian habits, expressions, visual images etc. of French society (and German, and American etc. pp.). Anyone remember Darkie toothpaste? His statement was disturbing, because this kind of language is rarely heard any more through public, institutional channels. Which doesn't mean that the French government isn't actively pursuing numerous clearly racist policies at this moment (e.g. forced deportation of Roma). While the Tea Party may not be a racist movement per se, anyone in it should be well aware that a considerable percentage of tea partyers clearly are racists and have no problem outing themselves as such on the placards they parade around. To state only the most obvious example, anyone who denies that a black President could possible be a legal citizen, against all evidence, is a racist, even if he/she may deny that. The tea party is a hodgepodge of angry people, from libertarians to militiamen, birthers, xenophobes, old John Birchers, corporate lobbyists pumping in money, evangelicals and, yes, racists. Too many, though, are discontended whites who believe they are underprivileged, because the former built-in perks they profited from as whites are melting away under the neo-liberal sun (welcome to the business elite's collateral damage club) and they are barking up the wrong tree. But enough of politics. Just so much: JPG is not the problem, power structures that engender racism are.
    My Wardrobe
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  8. #188

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    Sunnyfunny - I agree with your comment : no one has earned the right to be hateful.
    Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

  9. #189

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    It's very convenient to define racims in terms of a KKK caricature, but racism these days is usually far more subtle. I can not say whether JPG is a racist or a senile old man, but he used what was a conventional turn of phrase in an age when racism was the convention and deeply ingrained within the quotidian habits, expressions, visual images etc. of French society (and German, and American etc. pp.). Anyone remember Darkie toothpaste? His statement was disturbing, because this kind of language is rarely heard any more through public, institutional channels. Which doesn't mean that the French government isn't actively pursuing numerous clearly racist policies at this moment (e.g. forced deportation of Roma). While the Tea Party may not be a racist movement per se, anyone in it should be well aware that a considerable percentage of tea partyers clearly are racists and have no problem outing themselves as such on the placards they parade around. To state only the most obvious example, anyone who denies that a black President could possible be a legal citizen, against all evidence, is a racist, even if he/she may deny that. The tea party is a hodgepodge of angry people, from libertarians to militiamen, birthers, xenophobes, old John Birchers, corporate lobbyists pumping in money, evangelicals and, yes, racists. Too many, though, are discontended whites who believe they are underprivileged, because the former built-in perks they profited from as whites are melting away under the neo-liberal sun (welcome to the business elite's collateral damage club) and they are barking up the wrong tree. But enough of politics. Just so much: JPG is not the problem, power structures that engender racism are.
    Pure BS.


    Trying to compare the days of slavery, Jim Crowe, firehoses, actual lynchings, mob justice, "darkie toothpaste" and some how equate it with today's sceptism over a presidential candidate's birth certificate (I'm more concerned with why his college papers are under lock and key)-- and saying racism is becoming more "subtle"; it's like saying that dinosaurs are becoming more subtle.

    You are absolutely wrong about the tea party movement. Go look at the nuts that are falling from your own tree.

  10. #190

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    Politics sucks.

    And down goes the Hindenburg thread

    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  11. #191

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveJazz View Post
    Politics sucks.

    And down goes the Hindenburg thread

    You're absolutely correct. I have removed my digressions in the spirit of STAYING ON TOPIC and in hopes of keeping this extremely important thread open to the Basenotes members that need to express their frustrations over the JP Guerlain incident.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 22nd October 2010 at 09:52 PM.

  12. #192

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Guyer View Post
    Good point, I often wonder myself why the Tea Party ignored/ignores the fact that President Bush authorized/originated the first round of Wall Street bailouts.
    But they don't. The whole point of the Tea Party movement is that we are not about to take a potential 16 years of outrageous G spending lying down. It's not as if W was particularly popular during his last couple years. The unfortunate fact is that the real racists/hatemongers/loonies have taken the opportunity to push their agenda on the TP platform. They've been either shot down or discredited by the movement and the more prolific members therein. They are not what we are about. And for the record... since this thread still lives... the_good_life has the TP completely bass ackwards.

  13. #193

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugandaraja View Post
    Honestly, I really don't care whether the Tea Party are the Klu Klux Koffee Klatch or not, but I do find myself mildly annoyed that whenever American elections come around, the subject seems to wind its way into completely unrelated posts on apolitical forums. This post is no longer about Jean-Paul Guerlain - it's been consumed by an unrelated political issue.
    You're absolutely correct. I have removed my digressions in the spirit of STAYING ON TOPIC.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 22nd October 2010 at 09:46 PM.

  14. #194

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    Honestly, I really don't care whether the Tea Party are the Klu Klux Koffee Klatch or not, but I do find myself mildly annoyed that whenever American elections come around, the subject seems to wind its way into completely unrelated posts on apolitical forums. This post is no longer about Jean-Paul Guerlain - it's been consumed by an unrelated political issue.

  15. #195

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    Mods - Can we lock this thread now? - it seems to have run its course.
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

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  16. #196

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugandaraja View Post
    Honestly, I really don't care whether the Tea Party are the Klu Klux Koffee Klatch or not, but I do find myself mildly annoyed that whenever American elections come around, the subject seems to wind its way into completely unrelated posts on apolitical forums. This post is no longer about Jean-Paul Guerlain - it's been consumed by an unrelated political issue.
    I see your point Suga, but this was never an apolitical thread. Digression is what happens naturally when civilised people sit down and have a conversation. I am relieved that BN can accommodate such threads alongside the ones which matter less, like perfumes (shoot me now) or animated balloons congratulating one another for being able to breathe in and out. Those are all very attractive, posted with genuine affection, and we love them for that, but they don't influence whether or not we are able to pay our mortgages and health care this month, or live our lives free of discrimination and abuse

    In my eyes, staying on point for a whole thread is one of life's drearier aspirations.

    So once again I say good job done by Hirch in the first instance.
    Reformulation without information is fraud. Call the police.

  17. #197

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    It's very convenient to define racims in terms of a KKK caricature, but racism these days is usually far more subtle. I can not say whether JPG is a racist or a senile old man, but he used what was a conventional turn of phrase in an age when racism was the convention and deeply ingrained within the quotidian habits, expressions, visual images etc. of French society (and German, and American etc. pp.). Anyone remember Darkie toothpaste? His statement was disturbing, because this kind of language is rarely heard any more through public, institutional channels. Which doesn't mean that the French government isn't actively pursuing numerous clearly racist policies at this moment (e.g. forced deportation of Roma). While the Tea Party may not be a racist movement per se, anyone in it should be well aware that a considerable percentage of tea partyers clearly are racists and have no problem outing themselves as such on the placards they parade around. To state only the most obvious example, anyone who denies that a black President could possible be a legal citizen, against all evidence, is a racist, even if he/she may deny that. The tea party is a hodgepodge of angry people, from libertarians to militiamen, birthers, xenophobes, old John Birchers, corporate lobbyists pumping in money, evangelicals and, yes, racists. Too many, though, are discontended whites who believe they are underprivileged, because the former built-in perks they profited from as whites are melting away under the neo-liberal sun (welcome to the business elite's collateral damage club) and they are barking up the wrong tree. But enough of politics. Just so much: JPG is not the problem, power structures that engender racism are.
    On topic and a truly brilliant post. Thanks for illuminating the fact that racism, like a virus, needs to adapt in order to survive. Scapegoating, whether benign or blatant, is almost always rooted in racism.

  18. #198

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    How can anyone be offended by JPG's remarks?
    I've heard worse things in rap music.

    The funny thing is that it's mostly the whites who are offended and who are calling for a boycot, not the black people.

  19. #199

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Suppressor View Post

    The funny thing is that it's mostly the whites who are offended and who are calling for a boycot, not the black people.
    How do you know that?
    Reformulation without information is fraud. Call the police.

  20. #200

    Default Re: Jean Paul Guerlain racist comments - DON'T BUY GUERLAIN

    Mods PLEASE close this thread....
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

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