you can try it with Calone, which have a salty marine odour
Thread: scent of salt
I am a beginner at natural perfumery. I have a jar of grey sea salt that has the most wonderful minerally marine odor. How can I capture this scent for use in my perfumes? If it were an herb or spice I would tincture it, but I think adding salt to a perfume would just make it stain clothes. What is it that I am smelling anyway? Is it a combination of many different mineral salts whose particles are small enough to get airborne when I open the jar? I welcome suggestions.
you can try it with Calone, which have a salty marine odour
Calone has a melon/fresh/aquatic note. It is very powerful but not salty in my opinion.
There are a few "salty" perfumes on the market - sel de vetiver,fleurs de sel and a couple more. I'm not sure how they acheive the salt note though... maybe David Ruskin knows...?
for me itīs also a salty marine note
I've never understood the description "salty", although I have heard it used many times. To me, whenever "Salty" is used, I think either "Ozonic" or "Marine". Several aromachemicals have a marine odour; Calone has been mentioned, but there is also Floralozone (which is cheaper), Helional, Melonal, and even Phenylacetaldehyde which in dilution has been described as "salty". If you want fishy or seaweedy, then there are several (very expensive) Algue absolutes (absolutes derived from different types of seaweed). As always, how one achieves a particular effect is never straight forward and depends upon the mixing together of several materials. As you say you are into natural perfumery Djiril, then you may not be interested in the synthetics. I'm guessing that your sea salt smells the way it does because of trace amounts of algae and sea shells.
Vetiver can have a salt like note to it.
Hints of black spruce oil can produce a mineralic effect, as can the variety of pepper oils (or even peppery woods, such as guaiacwood).
I think the OP is looking for natural materials, not aroma chemicals. The calone-type aromachems are not "salty", they are "fresh/ozonic", which is quite different, IMO. Aromachems that in some way mimic aspects of ambergris, e.g. ambroxan, have a slightly salty, ocean-like scent. Among naturals, you could try sage and lovage. You can also easily make a tincture of seaweed, if you like that sort of note. Probably some combination of these things would work to produce a salty accord.
How could I forget to mention lovage. Yes yes, a great salty note.
I also find some salty aspects to geranium and even lemon myrtle (amidst the sweetness).
i've just ordered some seaweed abs in alcohol from essentially me.. ill let you know what its like
hiya, i got my deaweed absolute 20% alcohol dilution today with some others, and i put 2 drops of the seaweed tincture stright on my wrist with a drop each of clary sage ab tincture and mimosa and beeswax tincture and a drop of high altitude lavender eo and omg its soo amazingly salty!!! 1st was fishy and awful but now all i can smell are fresh air and salty rockpools .. its staying put like this without changing for the last hr and i cant stop smelling it!! so im biggingup the seaweed abs extrait from essentially me!
Don't know why it worked with the other sbut it did i wish i could send u what im smelling through the screen!!
Creed's erolfa is what you need!!!
Erolfa is very salty at least to me it is
You could also try adding a bit of coriander EO to your blend; I find it very 'salty' scented.
Kenzo PH is pure salt to me.
And Burberry The Beat is a spicy salt.
Sel de Vetiver and Heeley Sel Marin are the two to beat in my opinion, the Heeley actually having some seaweed notes. Profumum's Aqua di Sale (is that the name?) is a much cleaner, linear version with a fennel/liquorice note. I am with some of the others who feel that Calone is not really salty at all, but we have come to associate it with fresh ozonic frags.
Anyone have any idea how the salt note is achieved in Sel de Vetiver? I find it addictive...
How about Black Pepper? This might work by association. Also I find Ambroxan to have sort of creamy saltiness.
I've been trying to find a good salt note for awhile. I'm now actually going through my stock of aromachemicals to find it.
Thank you for the suggestions!
Looking back at the OP, the smell of salt from a jar of sea-salt suggests something similar because a jar of purified salt has very little smell at all.
Seaweed absolute does not give much in the way of saltiness to me either, though I observe some people do perceive salt in it. So again that might be down to some other salt that is in seawater besides sodium chloride, that becomes detectable only when the other elements of the seaweed have faded.
I don't detect any salt in ambroxan, calone, helional or melonal. Aquatic notes in a couple of them, yes. Melon in others but no salt.
The Good Scents Company list only one chemical as having a salty odour: cis-4-heptenal diethyl acetal on the other hand they also suggest a very long list of other diethyl acetals as being similar. Im afraid none of them is in my current collection or listed by my regular suppliers, except citral diethyl acetal and thats oily-citrus rather than salty.
I find that ambergris tincture, reduced down to eliminate the alcohol (leaving a waxy aromatic residue) has a brilliant effect which brings to mind saltiness. It doesn't actually capture the smell of a good fleur de sel but there's what I can only describe as a clarity reminiscent of the beach.
I know what you mean about ambergris - it usually has a salty / seaweed edge to it that is lacking in pure ambroxan. Each piece is different however and some are much more animalic or earthy.
Yes, one of my tinctures smells like castoreum.
I played a bit around with some ingredients and found out that
methyl pamplemousse, cardamom eo, clary sage eo, aldehyde C12 mna, Elemi, Lovage tincture, has some salty effect. I made my own lovage tincture with lovage from my garden, because the lovage eo smells more like instant soup. The tincture creates that "salt on skin" effect. For the distinctive solar smell you can add a bit bourbon geranium eo and ylang ylang or cananga odorata eo. There is also patchouli eo or patchouli hexanol in it and of course a special vetiver which is less earthy and more smoky...or the other way around ( or both less ), i donīt keep such a vetiver.
In the opening of "Sel de Vetiver" is a slightly harsh medicinal sort of smell and i canīt put my finger on it, i canīt detect the ingedient that is responsible for that lovely smell. Itīs like spray of sea foam right in your face.
There are good advices already given here,
but iīm fiddling on a salt accord for ages. Any other new suggestions, David, Paul ??
Conni, I haven't worked on a Salt Accord... the only thing that comes close is the Seaweed abs that I have,...
My 8 yr old son and I have been making scents to his ideas, with my input for compliments and ratios, and we put a bit of the seaweed abs in his latest tropical Hawaii themed frag concentrate, which stays on the top, (which is odd for an Abs,) but it is so very strong... It reminds me of briney/saltiness.
My friend Shelley Waddington made a recent frag with a salt note, but I haven't asked her what she did for it yet. just for kicks, have you tried to tincture salt in alcohol?
Paul, no i havnīt tried to make a salt tinkture because for me salt has no odour.
But maybe it is worth tinkture some unpurified sea salt, i mean that still slightly wet grey sea salt from an organic shop.
Algae abs. has a salty smell but smells also a bit fishy which i find not matching.
If you try to make a tincture of salt, you will end up with a solution of salt in alcohol! Salt is soluble in alcohol. It is also odourless. I heard once ( although I don't remember where) that the key to the smell of the sea, the "salty smell", is Dimethyl sulphide , at a very low level. On its own it smells of slightly rotting cabbage, but at the right level, apparently, you get the sea.
Dimethyl sulphide, thatīs interesting ! Thanks David !
What about Calone?
Calone, yes it should be also in the blend, but i guess you cannot use it alone for a sea salt accord.
Btw, i found a german supplier for Dimethyl sulfide and itīs not expensive, iīll purchase some to experiment !
just my two cents worth. Years ago I wanted the scent of a low grade sea salt I came across. It smelled very "fresh sea" to me. tincture did not work. the smell was there, weak and so was tons of salt. I decided to distill it. well the salt did stay behind, and out of about 10 pounds of this smelly greyish salt I ended up with about 1/10th of a gram of a thick almost gelatinous reeking mess. It was not pleasant fresh sea like. it was like very old marine life-weed-even a little swampy. I tried diluting it to see if the fresh pleasant sea like scent was maybe still there concentrated to nasty- I diluted a bit of it to .1% and it was still like nasty seaweed in the sun. the nasty was still there. my conclusion is that if it is possible to capture that scent it is *NOT* through steam distillation.
David, your advice makes me a bit nervous, but iīll do my best to spill nothing !
Kerensa, I'd still dilute it further... It's not uncommon to dilute strong materials by 10,000%
I'd say keep diluting till you can't smell it. and then track where it might smell OK...
David and Conni, I ordered a sample from Vigon of DMS, We'll see if I actually get it, and I *WILL* dilute it outside, thanks for the warning... I opened the cap of a Pyrazine in the house one time, and had to evacuate the house... Right now, in it's glass bottle, in another bottle, in another bottle, in a bag, I can still smell it if I disturb it on the shelf...
Oh Yeah Conni, do it outside indeed, I did so for my pyrazine... The Pyrazine needed to be diluted 1000% or so, so I did it on my scale, but it is so sensitive that a breath on the scale moves it. So weighing outside was problematic. So I took a box, and cut out the sides and top, and then covered the open sides with plastic food wrap, with my materials, bottles, alcohol, and scale inside. I wrapped the clear plastic wrap around the box so that I could reach between the layers on the side, and with my gloved hands, looking thru the plastic, on a windy day, I conducted my dilution and weighing in peace from the wind, while the wind kept my nose from being too saturated with the odor.
I had previously burned my nose a bit when I sniffed the pyrazine full strength, so with a vapor/wind barrier of cellophane, and the wind to waft the odor away from me, it all worked out well.
I ran across this FANTASY Salt accord (because of course Salt doesn't have an odor...) and now all you folks can aim at this one...
NOT MINE though,, found it, here's the accompanying text:
To compensate for the absence of a big salt trend this year, and to 'melt some ice', let's make a little salty sample smell, even though salt is of course totally odorless. So it is all about imagination and smells triggering your brain to recall occasions when you had a salty taste on your tongue.
And that is of course on the beach with microscopic salt crystals in the air. So we need a marine base such as for instance Ultrazur around Azurone that Antoine Lie used so skilfully for the iodized accord in 'Secretions Magnifiques' (Etat Libre d'Orange, 2006). Ultrazur is indeed perfect to build up salty contrasts, so let's take a bold 20%, and then add the smell of sun protection products with amyl and benzyl salicylate (1:10) and benzyl benzoate (8) in the fond. The metallic muskiness of Habanolide fits this ambience as perfect as does the metal cap on a salt shaker, so 10 parts for the fond.
Oceans can also smell melon, so let's start our perfume sketch with the green melon note of melonal in the top that we then extend to the greeness of algae wih Algenone PB of Synarome. We then purge the slight dirtyness of these green notes with the clean aldehydic-floral salty character of Precyclemone B, and bleach out the remaining rest with the ozony, floral-green Tropional.
At this point the sun cream will set in in our evaporation curve, but to bridge from there to Ultrazur we accentuate with associations of licorice and an oversalted celery broth, so that's accents of anisaldehyde, Isojasmone T, and celery ketone.
What's missing now is xtra salted ham with Spanish cade oil, salted peanuts with a good dose of vetiver oil Haiti, and to recall the atmosphere of your salty sweat in a gym and introduce the musky metallicness of Habanolide, just a tiny trace of Castoreum Givco 116 base …
Et voilā may we introduce: 'Eau de Bryne'. A serving suggestion is to add some salt crystals to the 10% EtOH solution as eye candy, and to complete the illusion. And should that be too salty for you, you can use it just as an accent in some florals or make your own 'Guérande’s fleur de sel' perfume with a short little violette formula. Enjoy experimenting, but: DON'T EAT IT !!
Wow ! What a great Xmas gift ! Many thanks Paul ! I really have to try it out now.....!
Last night, I smelled some sea salt, which has a richer smell than straight, pure NaCl.
I noticed a note that seemed like wet concrete. This made sense due in part to the trace minerals that are found with the sea salt.
That made me wonder whether cashmeran, which also has a wet concrete note, could be coaxed into a salt direction. A caveat: I've never smelled cashmeran. But I thought it worth mentioning.
The obvious consideration is that salt is found in the sea. So anything with a sea smell -- ambergris, for instance; or seaweed, should have value. Sage also occured to me, as it did to another poster. I believe that comes from the deserts that sage grows in, as the hot dry sand has some "similarity" to salt. Part of it is associative, and maybe part of it is a common mineral smell.
By the way, I don't believe salt to be odorless. Salt has a strong taste, for one thing, and some of the human sense of smell literally comes from taste, in that taste information is directed by nerve cells to the brain's olfactory centers. Indeed, part of what makes humans' sense of smell so good is that taste and smell are linked in humans moreso than, say, dogs. Taste makes the sense of smell better, though this is not widely realized. Most people think about it in terms of smell making taste better, which is also true.
Plus, I can imagine the smell of salt as I am sitting here, quite vividly. The smell memory comes from being a child and having a sore throat, when my mother would give me hot salt water to gargle with. Perhaps the hot water brings out the scent of salt. I am smelling salt right now, mentally; and if my memory is that vivid, it must be inaccurate to say salt has no smell. But perhaps one could say, "it smells like it tastes."
Another idea is habanolide, as salt reminds me a bit of iron, and habanolide has an iron note.
Ironically, salt has a dry and hot impression for me, since we encounter it in the context of wet and cold in nature. But anything dry and hot (temperature) might fit. Maybe there is something to the contrast of wet versus dry to go after -- which may sound nonsensical as when many artistic metaphors are put into words. On the other hand, drinking salt water doesn't prevent you from dying of thirst. An ironic smell?
Last edited by DrSmellThis; 26th December 2013 at 09:57 AM.
Do you have some reference for this stuff? I'm pretty interested in how smell works.and some of the human sense of smell literally comes from taste, in that taste information is directed by nerve cells to the brain's olfactory centers. Indeed, part of what makes humans' sense of smell so good is that taste and smell are linked in humans moreso than, say, dogs. Taste makes the sense of smell better, though this is not widely realized.
Last edited by DrSmellThis; 26th December 2013 at 04:47 PM.
Maybe the perceived smell of salt has as much to do with it's aroma as it does with it's effect on the body and olfactory sense. Salt is very drying, astringent and alkaline and it has that effect on our body as well. Salt may also contain things like iodine. Perhaps if one were to combine those aspects/qualities with a faint marine note (fishy, green, swampy, mineral-ic, seaweed-y, alkaline, astringent, earthy, iodine, dry) they would come very close to the smell of salt.
Justin E. Beasley
I only know a fragrance that smells really salty: womanity by mugler. i think it`s Aldehyd c12mna
I have aldehyde c 12 mna and i thought the salty note came from a wrong storage and is an off note, but i found it very appealing and did not dump the juice. Oddly enough, in the description the salt note is not mentioned.
Hey Conni, glaub mir! aldehyd c12 mna
this is not the Neonatura Coccoon that is cocoa-patchouli.
i also second the idea of iodine but have no idea what it smells like alone...