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Thread: cloudiness?

  1. #1

    Default cloudiness?

    I wanted to ask what others do when an alcohol-based concoction is cloudy from the ingredients. I've heard about filtering, others have recommended a solubiliser.....is one way noticeably better than another?

    Thanks for any input.

  2. #2

    Default Re: cloudiness?

    Hi Scott

    We filter - have a look at Boris the Perfumer on You Tube for some tips!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwVcFczU6i4

    Best wishes
    Sian
    Sian at Essentially Me

    http://www.essentially-me.co.uk
    http://aleclawless.blogspot.om

  3. #3
    David Ruskin's Avatar
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    Default Re: cloudiness?

    It used to be common practice to chill and filter all fine fragrances once they had matured in alcohol. Leave your alcoholic solution in a cold place (like a fridge) for a couple of weeks and then filter as instructed. Using a solubiliser will make the perfume feel sticky when applied to the skin, and it will froth if shaken.

  4. #4

    Default Re: cloudiness?

    much appreciated (nice video too.)

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    Dependent rynegne's Avatar
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    Default Re: cloudiness?

    What is most commonly used for filtering in small amounts ie. 500ml and under? Are paper filters, coffee filters, cheese cloth most common. Thanks.
    Madhat Scents - My personal limited run artisan perfume project. NEW Americana Rust (tobacco and wood...no cherry or vanilla filler.) / NEW Engin (aldehydes/amber/wood/smoke.) / NEW NorOud (Oud and Hops - a Northerly bright fragrance.)

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    Default Re: cloudiness?

    Hi Scott, it's difficult to say what's making your solution cloudy without knowing more but in most cases it will be lipids, such as fats or waxes. It would be wise to follow David's advice. As he suggested though, you need to give it adequate time to work. It takes time for the lipids to crystallize and aggregate together.

    If you're in a rush then you can speed the process up by placing the solution in the freezer but give it atleast 48 hours before filtering. Good quality coffee filter papers are sufficient, if you've given the crystals time to mature. Ideally, you should chill the filter paper and funnel before filtering and place everything back in the refrigerator while the solution filters.

    Edit: I've just noticed that this thread was started in 2010, only Rynegne needs an answer.
    Last edited by Pears; 22nd February 2014 at 05:12 PM.

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    Default Re: cloudiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by rynegne View Post
    What is most commonly used for filtering in small amounts ie. 500ml and under? Are paper filters, coffee filters, cheese cloth most common. Thanks.
    Hey rynegne, filter papers, membrane filters and sintered glass filters are among the most commonly used for filtering small amounts. Filter papers can be made of cellulose or glass microfibers. The latter isn't designed to be bent and is therefore typically used with a Buchner funnel. I wouldn't worry too much about what they use in industry, to be honest. Coffee filter papers are sufficient in most cases, providing that you've given the crystals time to mature. Although I'd avoid coffee filter papers with added flavor pores, such as Melitta Flavor Pores™. If you want something with a faster flow rate, then you'll find that biodiesel 10 micron filter bags are more than sufficient for your needs.
    Last edited by Pears; 22nd February 2014 at 03:44 PM.

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    Default Re: cloudiness?

    Thanks Pears, didn't mean to dig up an old thread. It's the most relative one I could find with the site's "new" search function. The reason I ask is I've used paper filters in the past and while they work great, it takes forever and a day to run the perfume through the filters.
    Madhat Scents - My personal limited run artisan perfume project. NEW Americana Rust (tobacco and wood...no cherry or vanilla filler.) / NEW Engin (aldehydes/amber/wood/smoke.) / NEW NorOud (Oud and Hops - a Northerly bright fragrance.)

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    Default Re: cloudiness?

    What are you trying to filter out, rynegne? Sometimes the slow filtration rate is down to an excess build up of sediment on the filter. Unless you wish to invest in vacuum filtration equipment, you'll need to select a filter medium with a faster flow rate and a higher loading capacity. You can make your own depth filter by packing cotton wool into the end of a large syringe and then pour the solution through. It's a technique more commonly used with a Pasteur pipette but you really want something larger than that in this case. The flow rate is excellent but you'll need to make the layer of cotton wool quite deep to capture the smallest particles. If you pour a little plain alcohol through at the end then you'll re-capture the solution that was absorbed by the medium. Give it a try and see how you get on.
    Last edited by Pears; 23rd February 2014 at 12:35 AM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: cloudiness?

    Very light sediment at the bottom of my bottle of non-soluble materials. Not an excessive amount. I'm just trying to make the liquid as clear as possible for bottling purposes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pears View Post
    What are you trying to filter out, rynegne? Sometimes the slow filtration rate is down to an excess build up of sediment on the filter. Unless you wish to invest in vacuum filtration equipment, you'll need to select a filter medium with a faster flow rate and a higher loading capacity. You can make your own depth filter by packing cotton wool into the end of a large syringe and then pour the solution through. It's a technique more commonly used with a Pasteur pipette but you really want something larger than that in this case. The flow rate is excellent but you'll need to make the layer of cotton wool quite deep to capture the smallest particles. If you pour a little plain alcohol through at the end then you'll re-capture the solution that was absorbed by the medium. Give it a try and see how you get on.
    Madhat Scents - My personal limited run artisan perfume project. NEW Americana Rust (tobacco and wood...no cherry or vanilla filler.) / NEW Engin (aldehydes/amber/wood/smoke.) / NEW NorOud (Oud and Hops - a Northerly bright fragrance.)

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    Default Re: cloudiness?

    What is the composition of your solution? Is it milky or just murky in appearance?
    Last edited by Pears; 23rd February 2014 at 02:59 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: cloudiness?

    Madhat Scents - My personal limited run artisan perfume project.
    Rynegne! Wow! Congratulations what a fabulous project you started there! I am sure lovers of edgy but thoughtfully crafted fragrances will be pleased. Good name, by the way.

    I wish you lots of fun and success!

  13. #13
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    Default Re: cloudiness?

    Rynegne, the reason why I asked if the solution was cloudy was to find out if any solidified lipids might be present. I've taken a look at your site and the ingredients that you've listed shouldn't contain much in the way of lipids. Unless you used fresh coffee, as opposed to an absolute. If not, then winterization (chilling) and dewaxing probably wouldn't be necessary.

    If you have the time, you can leave the solution to settle for a day or two before pouring or siphoning off the clear layer. To make sure that you've removed any stray particles, you can then filter the solution. For a fast flow rate, you can use materials like cotton wool, or polyester filter bag material. The sheet material can easily be cut into filter disks of the desired size. Polyester has good chemical resistance to ethanol and essential oils but consult a chemical resistance chart (below) if you wish to use different solvents.

    http://rfelektronik.se/manuals/Datas...lventguide.pdf

    The 5 and 10 micron material below should be more than adequate for your needs. The 1 micron material would be overkill for these purposes but you can try it if you like. To put it into perspective, standard lab filter papers are rated at around 10-20 microns, although the finer grades go down to about 2-3 microns.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Micron-72-...item519b46c3a4

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Raw-Polyeste...item5197948819

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Raw-Polyeste...item5190ce8970
    Last edited by Pears; 24th February 2014 at 02:54 AM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: cloudiness?

    Hey guys. Thanks for the help and such kind words. It's actually for another composition. I filtered it last night and let it settle. The setiment still remained so ended up siphoning off the clear layer. Honestly I think the recent weather may have tampered with one specific EO that was nearly frozen about a month or so in transit. I knew I should not have used it...smelled fine but I think condensation may have reached that bottle...or it was a shotty EO from a very reputable dealer. Thanks again for the help and support!!!
    Madhat Scents - My personal limited run artisan perfume project. NEW Americana Rust (tobacco and wood...no cherry or vanilla filler.) / NEW Engin (aldehydes/amber/wood/smoke.) / NEW NorOud (Oud and Hops - a Northerly bright fragrance.)

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