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Thread: Real Deer Musk

  1. #1
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    Default Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    Recently, I developed an application for animalic fragrances. This was spurred on by my liking to Ormonde Jayne's Orris Noir which had notes of civet in it. I could definitely smell the civet and I was hooked. So I went on eBay looking for something animalic, heavy and dirty. Voila! Wild Deer Musk!. At £7.49 for 12ml of oil, it was cheap. I hadn't realized how cheap it was until I got a whiff of the power it could project! I just dabbed some onto my finger and rubbed it ever so slightly onto my neck and sprayed A*MEN to see how it would go. A*MEN was no match for this light dab. Its sweet deeply woody and very animalic/musky. I just can't describe it. It's nothing like I've smelt before, one not to overdo because that dab was smelt from feet away. I got people asking what I was wearing all day. It just drew people in. Its even better after its been in the washing machine. It just becomes a light musk which is perfect when layered with a clean scent. Has anyone had any similar experiences with raw animalic oils?
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    I bought some pure musk and it came in the day before my cats were scheduled to be neutered..I couldn't curb my curiosity...The cats were about 6 months old and had already started displaying mating behavior ocassionaly...I made them sniff some of the musk and I regretted it right after since they're both males...I had to scrub it off and keep them away from each other for a while...

    I made them sniff some raw ambergris as well..Normally with scents they sniff for a few seconds and then open their mouths slightly and then they're not interested anymore..With the ambergris they keep sniffing until I take it away.

    I get a funny reaction whenever I make one of them smell Angelica Root...I think its too strong for them..Hits them some where and gets them high for a few seconds..This one would fall on its back, start rolling over and claw at me if I came close.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    I just wanted to say that you should watch out with directly applying essential oils to your skin since they can cause serious irritations when used in undiluted form.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    I've been using them for years now...Had no problems...It depends on the skin type I guess.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    Are these really true musks? Are they really "wild deer" musk????
    At the Agarscents price, I hope they are but for any less than that? Is it still legal to extract this?
    I know there have been recent threads regarding this but I came away from those threads not really understanding if it's still possible to get the real thing. ???

  6. #6

    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    Wild Deer Musk!. At £7.49 for 12ml of oil, it was cheap.
    It sounds like a nice perfume oil but "Wild Deer Musk" is most certainly just a name not a description of what it is.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by evogel View Post
    Are these really true musks? Are they really "wild deer" musk????
    At the Agarscents price, I hope they are but for any less than that? Is it still legal to extract this?
    I know there have been recent threads regarding this but I came away from those threads not really understanding if it's still possible to get the real thing. ???
    Agarscent's sells a variety of musks.. The ones I am selling atm have a base which is extracted from the pure musk grains / pods..I'll be getting cheaper ones soon..Those are also based on the raw material but contain ketones or other synthetics to make it more affordable with barely noticeable changes in the smell...I'm able to sell these as my own personal effects but commercial trade in musk is regulated and most countries require a cites permit to import or export any quantity.

    It is still possible to get the real thing. Infact you can easily find ppol selling the grains..I've heard "Farmed" musk is available which is extracted from deers in captivity..The musk derived from these is said to be inferior in quality possibly due to factors such as limited roaming terrority and unnatural diets ..It is claimed that the deers are not killed from the extraction of the musk pods.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    Interesting video and comments..Hard to understand what he's saying but it's partially there in info.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=jqPrNv26YDw
    Last edited by Taz; 23rd June 2008 at 09:08 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    Taz, it's funny, I also test my essential oils and absolutes on my cats ! The two perfumes I like in this style are

    Musk - Kiehl's
    Musk Koublaï Khan - Serge Lutens
    Kouros is incredible as well if worn with parcimony.
    L'amour fait songer, vivre et croire. Il a, pour réchauffer le coeur, un rayon de plus que la gloire; et ce rayon, c'est le bonheur. (Victor HUGO)

  10. #10

    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    I think my cats have in their time smelt more than their share of frags but then their noses are far superior to ours and so why not have them use it so besides their usual sniffing each others behinds. lol
    Kiehl's original and MKK are by themselves quite decent but brought in to proximity with the real thing fade away in to oblivion.
    Last edited by Taz; 28th June 2008 at 04:02 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    we got it in Iran, and you really have to be careful in applying it as it will last for days even with continued washing and scrubbing, the scent is feminine to my nose and I felt uneasy for a couple of days..

  12. #12

    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by Critic View Post
    Recently, I developed an application for animalic fragrances. This was spurred on by my liking to Ormonde Jayne's Orris Noir which had notes of civet in it. I could definitely smell the civet and I was hooked. So I went on eBay looking for something animalic, heavy and dirty. Voila! Wild Deer Musk!. At £7.49 for 12ml of oil, it was cheap. I hadn't realized how cheap it was until I got a whiff of the power it could project! I just dabbed some onto my finger and rubbed it ever so slightly onto my neck and sprayed A*MEN to see how it would go. A*MEN was no match for this light dab. Its sweet deeply woody and very animalic/musky. I just can't describe it. It's nothing like I've smelt before, one not to overdo because that dab was smelt from feet away. I got people asking what I was wearing all day. It just drew people in. Its even better after its been in the washing machine. It just becomes a light musk which is perfect when layered with a clean scent. Has anyone had any similar experiences with raw animalic oils?
    At that price, it can't possibly be actual musk. Of, course, synthetic musks can smell great, too. profumo.it sells 16ml of genuine muscdeer tincture for 85 Euros.
    Currently wearing: Etiquette Bleue by D'Orsay

  13. #13

    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    My goodness.... has anyone thought about the issue of ethics and animal welfare in all this? There's a reason why deer musk isn't easy to come by anymore.

  14. #14

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    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    The guy in the video sounds like a C-H-A-R-L-A-T-A-N. I'd buy a bridge in Brooklyn before I bought anything from him.

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    Al

  15. #15

    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    It was indeed a very elaborate pitch for his product.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by snifferdog View Post
    My goodness.... has anyone thought about the issue of ethics and animal welfare in all this? There's a reason why deer musk isn't easy to come by anymore.
    That's a very pertinent issue. Is it ethical to derive musk from an animal if if it means the death of the animal. There exist complex philosophical arguments, differing views and schools of thought...Utilitarian versus Rights based. Animal rights versus animal welfare movements etc.

    The real question I think is: Based on what does one personally decide if it's right or wrong? Reason? Personal sensitivities? International consensus? Popular opinion?

    If one considers it self evidently immoral to kill an animal for anything not based on need or in order to avoid a greater harm then there's no real ethical difference in using fur, leather, ivory, or musk as fashion accessories or luxury items for peronal pleasure, regardless of whether a species is on the brink of extinction or abundantly proliferates on the planet. It's wrong.

    If one finds it acceptable to make use of animals for such purposes as are not based on need but unacceptable that a whole species should disappear towards that end then based on such personal sensitivies using musk would be personally unacceptable.

    I personally find it difficult to decide rationally where to draw the line. I feel that if it's possible to extract the musk without killing the animal and avoiding unnecassary pain then there's nothing wrong with it. It is possible to collect the musk when it is dropped by the deer but empirically speaking that has not been the case. Purely on rational terms I would support trade control measures since continuation of the musk trade as it has means an end to the species itself and hence an end to real musk.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    What proof is there that buying real animal musks isn't contributing to the trade in endangered species? To me that's ever more pertinent and less arguable than questions of animal rights.
    Last edited by Magnulus; 29th June 2008 at 11:55 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    The only reason to believe that is the word of the seller (which really isn't proof) unless one personally investigates the source of the raw musk.

    I personally have a problem with any animal being killed for stuff like fur coats, leather, perfumes etc. regardless of species population.
    Last edited by Taz; 29th June 2008 at 05:02 PM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Wild Deer Musk .. Anybody?

    It's probably not actual raw deer musk but theres something a bit funky in the fragrance somewhere. It's good funk, not the fecal type. I love it, I know I'll enjoy it for years to come.
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  20. #20

    Default Real Deer Musk

    Not quite sure where to post this so thought I would pop it in here and see how things go ...

    OK so not to politically correct and I know that its restricted now but is there any way in which to smell real deer musk and how would one go about sourcing it and know it was 100% genuine ?

    Thanks in advance

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Real Deer Musk

    it's not just restricted, it's illegal. the only ways to get it are a) buy from criminals (you won't get musk anyway) or b) take a trip to the very remote places where the animal lives, ask some locals if they have found some pods, and then try to get it back home (that would count as smuggling i'm afraid.)

  22. #22

    Default Re: Real Deer Musk

    Yea, I completely agree with Gido. The only thing I can say is this, I live in the US but I was born and raised in Poland. My R.I.P. grandma used to love perfume. When I was a small kid, me and her went to a russian market in our area where you could buy a lot of unique stuff from the russians. There was this guy who had a lot of russian fragrances and perfume oils, my grandpa bought some stuff for my grandma and me, mostly floral ones. The jasmine perfume I got, smelled like the most realistic, night-blooming jasmine I ever smelled. I will never forget that! I'm sure this guy had some real good stuff, that's exactly what got me to love perfumes as a small kid and it's still haunting me up to this day This russian guy told my grandma: "so you seem to really enjoy perfume, let me show you something VERY special. It is not on sale, it is my own treasure but let me let you smell it". It was real deer musk scent.

    It was so musky, dusky, soapy, aromatic, animalic... just everything at the same time. There is nothing else that you could compare to a real musk smell. Real musk is far from being just a simple perfume note, it is everything at the same time.

    Of course it is illegal, and I am totaly against killing any animals for making perfume. As a kid I had no idea where this musk came from anyways. For the longest time though, I was trying to find a perfume with the perfect musk note for myself (of course not real musk, but something with enough strength that could smell at least similar and have that "everything at the same time" effect).

    I am writing you this, because you might not be able to smell real musk fragrance, my only suggestion is, as a person who has had that opportunity (and believe me it was such unique a fragrance I STILL remember the way it smelled 15 years later, I will never forget that scent) that every musk perfume whether it's niche, or designer or indie house, when I smell it, I always pay attenton to how close it comes to smelling like the real thing.

    The ONLY one that was very realistic was Urban Musk by Tom Ford. Actually what smelled almost exactly like the real musk, was when I sprayed White Suede on left arm and Urban Musk on my left wrist. By accident I sprayed the two on the same, left arm. But the combo of them two, turned out to smell almost identical to the real thing. The Urban Musk was somehow animalic, and very potent. The White Suede had that unique scent that was somehow soapy but in a very musky way I don't make any sense right now, but trying to describe the real deer musk scent would never make any sense anyways. It's just too unique to even try to put it in any words!

    If I had to choose just one perfume that smells most similar to the real thing, it would be Tom Ford's Urban Musk. It would only lack that weird, soapy note - and that note smelled similar to White Suede. If you layer the two, I am telling you, this is what real musk smells like. It just smells more potent and stronger than Tom Ford's Edps.
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  23. #23

    Default Re: Real Deer Musk

    I really want to thank you, HighLine for sharing your insight in this subject. Today I tried out exactly what you referred to in your post. I can really see where you are going and I can imagine the Urban Musk (which I liked... the first Tom Ford, BTW!) with a 'creamy' add by the White Suede. A fantastic experience - thank you again!

  24. #24

    Default Re: Real Deer Musk

    Hi- I just found these while conducting one of my seemingly endless and futile searches for "real" musk products- thought I'd share and also ask if anyone here knows anything about these sellers or their products:

    http://enochian.org/herbs.shtml

    enochian.org
    Musk tincture. It's pure, I used the musk glands myself to make it, no additives like most other musk you find around, from the musk deer, which smells better then the regular sort. $49.99 for 1/2 oz bottle.

    -OR-

    http://www.scentsualantiquities.com
    10 ml Natural Musk Tincture 3%

    Natural Musk Tinctured at 3% in 90 percent alcohol and aged for 3 years. Musk Tincture has a very distinct animal note and character with a slightly floral over tone. Scentsual Antiquities now offers you this sparkling olfactory gem.

    $250.00

    YIKES! He says this about his specialties:

    Specialties

    Natural Macrocyclic Musk C13-19 from both Plant and Animal Origin, Ambergris Absolute, Pure Ambergris Oil (no carrier oil or other impurities present) Ambergris Tinctures and Extracts from Select A grade and Anitque Materials, Natural Isolates, and Fine Floral and other Hydrovac Distillations and Specialties. Custom Extraction Service available.

    Spent enough time for now- may need to examine the site to see if the "musk tincture" is actually musk c12-19 or what.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Real Deer Musk

    I'm sorry to contradict Gido, you may well have a statute in your country that makes real musk illegal but that isn't true generally.

    There are ten species of deer from which musk can be extracted and all of them are controlled under the international treaty called CITES, the treaty heavily restricts the killing of the animals and controls trade in their products, but it does not ban it completely (as it does with the products of many animals).

    So not only is it perfectly legal under the CITES treaty to trade in musk, they even give quotas (wrongly in my view) for export of material from wild deer in some areas, notably the Russian Federation. More reasonably the deer are farmed in several countries for their pods - it is difficult to argue that that is any more morally wrong than farming sheep for meat as long as the farming conditions are humane.

    It is also frequently claimed that musk and other animal products are restricted by IFRA but again this is not the case: there are no standards concerning any animal derived materials.

    There are good arguments for and against using these materials but the oft repeated 'you can't because it's banned' simply isn't true: I see this claim made often, but no-one has ever been able to point to an actual statute that says so. Check the links I've provided for yourself and you will see that neither of the international bodies responsible have banned this substance - the CITES site even provides details of the legal situation in signatory countries.
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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Real Deer Musk

    hello chris,

    don't be sorry, if i was wrong then that needs to be pointed out. i am almost certain that my source was profumo, and i am puzzled that someone who specializes his trade in animalic ingredients would get it wrong. i hold profumo in high esteem. perhaps he reads this and can explain the confusion?

  27. #27

    Default Re: Real Deer Musk

    Yes I do too, he is a perfumer of high reputation. Perhaps there is such a law in Italy where he works?
    Battle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise..”
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    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
    Quality perfume making ingredients
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog for more info about perfumes and perfumery.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Real Deer Musk

    Go to Paris and take rendez vous with the osmothèque and you'll be able to smell real musk and talk with specialists.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Real Deer Musk

    Great thread!
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  30. #30

    Default Re: Real Deer Musk

    IMO, in this day and age, there are alternatives to using real animal ingredients for perfumes. These can be phyto-derived or synthetic.

    There is a cruelty-free animalic and it's called hyraceum, made from the petrified urine of the hyrax. Liz Zorn uses it in her scents.

    The use of some products should go the way of the dodo: extinct.
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