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Thread: Celestolide

  1. #1
    New Member CivetSpiller's Avatar
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    Question Celestolide

    Hello

    I've just bought some Celestolide in crystal form with the instructions to dissolve it in DPG. Seems a bit tricky as a test amount hasn't dissolved in over a week now.

    Its weird because TGSC also says its soluble in DPG. Did I add too much Celestolide or does the DPG need to be heated perhaps?

    If the DPG in the end doesn't work out, is there anything other than ethanol that Celestolide will dissolve in?

    Thanks
    Last edited by CivetSpiller; 18th May 2011 at 02:50 AM.

  2. #2
    David Ruskin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Celestolide

    Celestolide is a polycyclic musk which is soluble in a variety of solvents. It should be possible to make a 10.0% solution in DPG, DEP, IPM, or Benzyl Alcohol. If you are having problems in dissolving it, either you have put in too much, or your DPG isn't, or your Celestolide isn't.

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    New Member CivetSpiller's Avatar
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    Question Re: Celestolide

    Thanks for your reply

    Ouch..

    The DPG should be fine because I've dissolved a bunch of other crystalline musks in it.
    So maybe the Celestolide then..? I used 1.1g crystals into 11.6g of DPG in my experiment so the amounts should be fine unless my mini-scale told me a fib.

    Would anybody know how long the real stuff takes to dissolve btw?

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    Default Re: Celestolide

    I am having a similar problem with dissolving celestolide in DPG. 5g of crystals in 45g of DPG. Both from heskerij. It has hardly dissolved at all. It just looks in suspension. I added have it sitting some warm water hoping it will trigger something but not sure...

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    Default Re: Celestolide

    Not from having worked with Celstolide in particular, but as a chemist, a couple of things can be relevant:

    First, sometimes it takes significant time for a material to dissolve fully, particularly when there is no stirring, shaking, or other mixing. Even with stirring, in some cases where having the maximum amount of material that can potentially dissolve, it can take as much as two days for it all to enter solution. So, if not having a stirring device, at least occasionally giving the container a swirl or shake will be helpful, as will allowing time.

    Elevated temperature also helps a great deal.

    Second, solubilities are not always consistent! They represent an equilibrium between the energy of the dissolved form and the crystal form that is present. Compounds sometimes have more than one possible crystal form. The energy of the dissolved molecules will not become higher -- and that energy is related to concentration -- than the energy of the molecules within the crystals. A form with a higher melting point (more stable, lower free energy within the crystals) can show much lower solubility than a form with a lower melting point. Where this is so, the only way to obtain the amount that can be dissolved with the lower melting point form is to use an increased temperature. I'm not saying that this is the case with your Celestolide, as I have no idea in this particular case, but it is something that does occur from time to time.
    Last edited by Bill Roberts; 14th April 2013 at 04:01 AM. Reason: Clarified

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    Default Re: Celestolide

    You can buy magnetic stirrers for not very much from e-bay. Or you can make your own out of scrap parts. Then you can leave things to stir for as long as you like

    It's not really worth the hassle of making your own stir bar, but they're also available from e-bay. Baffcat (I can thoroughly recommend him. His prices a a bit high, but quality and service are first class) sometimes sells really tiny 'flea' bars, but the smallest he has in stock right now are 10x13mm

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10mm-x-13m...item19c766ebb2

    -

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    Default Re: Celestolide

    Well, the heat appeared to help initially. The dpg became thinner and some of the solid seemed to dissolve. However, a couple of hours later and there Appear to be flakes in suspension now. I shook it and it doesn't seem dissolved. I'm going to try stirring now but will let it sit for a while.

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    Default Re: Celestolide

    Is there some particular reason you want to dissolve this in DPG rather than ethanol? Celestolide will dissolve fairly well in ethanol but I find it works especially well if you use a 50/50 mix with benzyl salicylate - though of course you may or may not want that in your blend, the two odours work beautifully together too. There is a problem sometimes with it re-crystalising out again when cold even then though.

    What I do when I'm using it in production is simply put it in first (as powder) and allow it to dissolve in the liquid components of the fragrance before dilution, which generally works very well.
    Chris Bartlett
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    Default Re: Celestolide

    I was told that it was best to dissolve in DPG -actually bought some just for the job. But will try ethanol now.

    Is there anyway I could salvage what i have already put in DPG?

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    Default Re: Celestolide

    Quote Originally Posted by Shakster007 View Post
    I was told that it was best to dissolve in DPG -actually bought some just for the job. But will try ethanol now.

    Is there anyway I could salvage what i have already put in DPG?
    I would try adding ethanol to the DPG attempt such that the overall dilution is doubled - so if it was 10% celestolide add ethanol so that it goes to 5% - with luck you'll find that rescues it.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

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    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Celestolide

    Thanks! Job done.

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