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  1. #1

    Default Vintage En Avion - Caron reformulations

    Ha, I made the title of this thread make you think something differently from what is coming now...
    You expect me to call Richard Fraysse names for constantly reformulating the Caron fountain extraits / the great classics for the worse?

    My En Avion comparison included the following:
    2011 extrait from Paris/Boutique Montaigne
    1990s extrait from a small decant I was able to procure from someone owning a bottle
    1930s extrait sample from the same owner
    all splashed generously on my wrists and arms (I admire those applying a drop here and and a drop there and being able to smell all the facets during its progression over hours )
    I asked non-involved, non-perfumistas for their opinion (which ultimately was the same than mine. No, I did not prompt the answers. )

    1990s vs. 2011 extrait
    Same rough, splendid opening, same main contributor after the initial burst, which is a green rose to my nose.
    Three hours into my wearing I have to confess, my untrained nose does not smell any difference at all. There were short moments I felt the 1990s jus had a slightly more pronounced chypre (oakmoss) tone, then the other moment I felt it was not the case. I don't smell any difference with regard to sweetness in the drydown either. They both progress exactly the same way to me, same pace, same intensity. I could maybe be talked into a nuance more chypre touch of the 1990s extrait, but then, it would make me think about what the fifteen years meant for the sensitive notes that En Avion mainly consists of. Ageing would always bring the chypre undertone slightly more to the foreground IMO (from oils disintegrating...). An average 15 years age difference between the two extraits is not much, but still I'm talking only of nuances here anyway. Same situation for the deep base lingering on, same longevity, same sillage.

    1930s extrait
    I smell turned notes (I think I am meanwhile able to recognize turned jasmine) in the opening. Only with the heftier application I could recognize the character of this.
    I am very familiar with the 1930s Lanvin classics and as such, Rumeur is my reference chypre and smell of the era's style. This does remind me of Rumeur apart from the orange tree and spicy orange notes, which is probably what I am smelling. This is rather a different fragrance in feel and wear compared to the two newer extraits - a hardcore chypre very much in the style of its time. The orange accord reminds me quite a bit of an old bottle of orange bitters I have, which is the bartender's little helper apart from the Angostura bitters. There was a point I could smell a mentholated fresh note, which I last smelled in 1930s Djedi two weeks ago. It is a note that is not uncommon in these vintage fragrances. I too wonder whether this is an actual note or a sort of chemical reaction in the vintage jus? This does not last and the medicinal, bitter orangey accord remains, a rather linear development overall.
    I was in for quite a surprise when after six hours the 1930s extrait, after the chypre predominance had died down, rather closely approximated the sweet intoxicating deep base of the new extrait. Same lvel of sweetness... so much for the claims that today's extrait was so much sweeter than the 'vintage'.

    En Avion in the newer extrait forms is much more a floral oriental to my perception - has always been (I can recognize the chypre character more in its sister fragrance Tabac Blond), whereas the 1930s is very much a classic chypre of its time with the special theme of orange tree.
    One last thought: Today's En Avion is very unique (old-fashioned you may call it, as if from another bygone era) in my opinion, whereas the original seems to be a variation of the style of its time.

    I think Fraysse is doing an excellent job... if he cheapened the ingredients, as some claim, congratulations, I don't smell it.
    I'm trying to think of a 1930 s fragrance that comes so close to today's version in its deep base like the En Avions do... any ideas? Guerlain not! Go sniff, post 2010 extraits of L'Heure Bleue, Vol de Nuit ( though fantastic, much a different feel and only facets that parallel), Shalimar (big nope), Mitsouko (nope)...

    I have yet to smell one of those dreaded Caron reformulations... come on, convince me! I pay a reasonable price for samples of jus in good condition!! Seriously!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Vintage En Avion - Caron reformulations

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Larimar.
    As you know, I too am rather partial to En Avion extrait. Interesting to hear the current perfume matches up well with the 90s vintage.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Vintage En Avion - Caron reformulations

    Interesting. I have the 1990s extract from the Paris boutique I class it as a leather chypre. Tabac Blond and I didn't really get on so I tried En Avion and it was much smoother but still had the leather.

    I know Luca Turin really disses the Carsons.
    DONNA

  4. #4

    Default Re: Vintage En Avion - Caron reformulations

    Thank you, donna, for reminding me and mentioning here that yours was 1990s extrait, too.
    Do you remember, when I was interested in En Avion and did not know it, I approached you whether you were willing to swap for a sample of your extrait with me. You kindly accepted. Your extrait smells exactly like today's 2011 extrait from Paris. I don't know what Ms. Sanchez smelled or how old their reference for the former edition of the Guide was, when they still thought highly of the Carons...

  5. #5

    Default Re: Vintage En Avion - Caron reformulations

    Great to hear...Thanks for the thread....Lets hear what more people have found with some of the other Caron scents....A friend is bringing me a new bottle of Pour Un Homme de Caron from Paris this week...I don't have a vintage to compare, and do as fine a job as you did with "En Avion... but I will offer my opinions as best as I can from memory....
    "Music Is My Mistress, and She Plays Second Fiddle To No One"-Ellington

  6. #6

    Default Re: Vintage En Avion - Caron reformulations

    Thank you, be-bop for your feedback! Much appreciated! Yes, do share please - that's really what BN is all about.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Vintage En Avion - Caron reformulations

    Nice job Larimar.
    When i'm doing tests like that, i'm doing as blind test. I apply the both without saying on someones and the other do the same on me, i think that you always can be biased by knowing what you are going to smell in advance.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Vintage En Avion - Caron reformulations

    Thank you, Mon-Petit!
    I think you certainly have a point there. I sometimes find it very helpful to hear straight comments from outsiders (who probably think 'what a nutcase' ) what they smell, whether they find it similar bla bla bla...

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Vintage En Avion - Caron reformulations

    I adore this stuff. I'm going to find my old sample & give it a try. I think it was from about 2006. NYC juice. It was great then. A close contender with Tabac Blond only a more intense floral; whereas TB is more of an amber. En Avion is what I like to call a very "bosomy" scent. You definitely have to be in the mood for a big floral/amber experience but it is of the very highest quality. Now I'm thinking I should get some from France after Larimar's review. It sounds great!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Vintage En Avion - Caron reformulations

    Thanks Larimar. I have a sample of En Avion, who knows when it's from, could have been on the shelves of Perfumed Court for a long time. Or not. But getting hold of the urn parfums are expensive enough as it is, I can't go chasing after vintage urn. I refuse! I am glad to hear that the current one is fine, for what it is. That will have to do.

    Now, which of the Lutens should I restock before uncle Serge butchers them completely?
    Last edited by furrypine; 5th December 2011 at 05:47 PM. Reason: grammar...

  11. #11

    Default Re: Vintage En Avion - Caron reformulations

    Quote Originally Posted by furrypine View Post
    I am glad to hear that the current one is fine, for what it is. That will have to do.

    Now, which of the Lutens should I restock before uncle Serge butchers them completely?
    The current certainly will do me, furrypine! I would never trade it in for the original.

    If Serge hasn't butchered Rose de Nuit (old label), that would be mine!

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