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Thread: Honey Absolute

  1. #1

    Default Honey Absolute

    Honey absolute is sold (and is distinct from beeswax absolute. What are your thoughts on making it? Has anyone here tried?

    I'm thinking a 50% honey-water solution would be easier (viscosity-wise) to extract, and could probably be worked with hexane or naphtha in a separatory funnel, maybe with successive changes of honey solution and a couple extractions to get full extraction of the concrete.

    Another possibility is "fluid enfleurage" into a fixed oil (lots of time and shaking) and then extracting that with alcohol.

    How much yield do you think I'd get from a pound of honey?

    My sep funnels are coming in the mail next week, and I'm gonna be trying the sesame oil that was previously discussed, and would like to try honey as well . . .

  2. #2

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Is possible to use it alone, as a pure parfum?
    I like honey

  3. #3

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    I don't know, but it should be. Honey seems rather base-noteish to me, so it should have reasonable longevity.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    I guess it depends on what you want to do with it, ultimately. If you have honey absolute you can dilute with perfumer's alcohol to about 50% and see how strong it is. I dilute many absolutes down to 25%, like Hay and Agarwood. Tobacco and Oakmoss I keep at 50%. I dilute with pefumer's alcohol because I'm making alc based fragrances. If you're making oils then I'm not sure what you would use to dilute.

  5. #5
    gecko214's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    I made a tincture of beeswax with about a kilo of wax, then dried it out into kind of "absolute" (I think this is called resinous when it comes directly from alcohol, but whatever) and I was surprised at how little I got, only about 3 mls (very nice though). Don't know what it means for honey, but I guess I would expect a similar, or lower even, yield. Plus is sugar solvable in hexane? if so then you would have a mess no?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Has anyone tried the honey absolute from Victorie-Inc? I'm curious how honey absolute itself smells and behaves in a blend, and also quite curious how your absolute, if you end up making one, turns out Sehrgut.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Yes- surprisingly lovely. I was surprised because I was uber skeptical about the website overall. I had nearly used up my first 5ml bottle and liked it so much I ordered 2oz. Over the years I've regretted my failing to stock up on rare e.o.s and absolutes which I wrongly took for granted assuming they'd always be there. I don't do that anymore if I can afford to invest. I have tried honey abs. and beeswax abs. from others and this if fine material. Before placing my re-order with Victorie inc I ordered the honey absolute from Hermitage Oils expecting something amazing...it was not. The scent was of nice quality but lesser intensity and possessed an inelegant texture - when applied to the skin, whether or not pre-dilluted, it felt like dried glue- sort of tacky like honey itself but scratchy and drying to the point of discomfort. I just sampled the Victorie inc beeswax abs. and it is the closest to my vintage gem from the old now Leydet oils in the 90s, but not quite as prominent a tobacco vibe. I like it and I like the beeswax abs. from Camden Grey. I'm generally not a fbig an of their sruff
    but the beeswax abs is nice not as sweet as the Victorie Inc one or the exquisite old stuff, but I like the varietal nature of it. It is lovely an grounding and more yang than honey- it has an almost "dry" (as in wine) nature to it.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    You could maybe try filtering the Hermitage oils version to see if it can get rid of the texture. I use wine filters or a teabag type paper. You can buy pot sized empty tea bag cases for rarer loose teas in specialist tea shops. They absorb less liquid than the wine filters.

    I've been tinkering with making honey and beeswax tinctures using a measured weight ratio of 1/10th wax to 9/10ths perfumers alcohol and eventually was going to try and make absolutes with them after the tincturing was finished. One of the honeyed wax tinctures has turned out so beautifully after just 6 months on the wax that I haven't made an absolute from it, but have been using it as the tincture.

    I am counting this resulting tincture as a 10% dilution after filtering which may not be technically correct as there are many solids left. I wonder if the filtered solids should really be weighed and subtracted from the resulting liquid to calculate the proper percent or whether the fact that there was a 10% mass to create the tincture means it is a 10% strength....any enlightenment here from someone more experienced in natural tinctures would be welcome.

    This tincture V absolute is something of interest to a DIYer. If a satisfactory tincture has been made, does it really need to be reduced to an absolute, when an absolute needs diluting again to use it, as one can make a tincture any strength using the right weight/liquid ratio? I only wonder because I have never done it.

    I have been given some aged wax soaked in propolis and some young clean wax to tincture. It would be most interesting to compare them to an abs. That winey dry natured one sounds lovely for a perfume note.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    I am counting this resulting tincture as a 10% dilution after filtering which may not be technically correct as there are many solids left. I wonder if the filtered solids should really be weighed and subtracted from the resulting liquid to calculate the proper percent or whether the fact that there was a 10% mass to create the tincture means it is a 10% strength....any enlightenment here from someone more experienced in natural tinctures would be welcome.
    Tinctures are not really my area of expertise so I don't know the rules myself, however I am pretty sure if you ask Chris at Bristol Botanicals he will know: they stock (and make) the widest range of pharmaceutical tinctures I've ever seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    This tincture V absolute is something of interest to a DIYer. If a satisfactory tincture has been made, does it really need to be reduced to an absolute, when an absolute needs diluting again to use it, as one can make a tincture any strength using the right weight/liquid ratio? I only wonder because I have never done it.
    I can't imagine what would be achieved by taking the alcohol out and then putting it back in this case.

    The reason most absolutes are treated that way is because they start life as a concrete extracted with another solvent and that brings with it a lot of waxes etc that you don't want to put into a perfume - hence the alcohol washing to get rid of it: as to why the alcohol is then removed, I guess that's a combination of reducing the volume of material that has to be shipped and re-using the alcohol in the manufactory (it will be recovered when boiled off).

    Neither is a concern to the DIYer so even if you were alcohol washing a concrete the only point in evaporating off the alcohol and then adding it would be to know the exact concentration - and takes us back to your other question, which I can't answer but hopefully the other Chris can . . .
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    This tincture V absolute is something of interest to a DIYer. If a satisfactory tincture has been made, does it really need to be reduced to an absolute, when an absolute needs diluting again to use it, as one can make a tincture any strength using the right weight/liquid ratio? I only wonder because I have never done it.
    That's a good question but you have to take it from another point of view: commercial absolutes are made by extraction with hot non-polar solvents like hexane. Tinctures are made with a cold polar solvent, ethanol indeed. That means that you could actually extract more or less the same quantity of material but you are gonna end up with different molecules, having the more polar molecules extracted with ethanol and the less ones with hexane. This means you could actually have different smells, making the dilution issue a "non-issue".
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  11. #11

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by otocione View Post
    That's a good question but you have to take it from another point of view: commercial absolutes are made by extraction with hot non-polar solvents like hexane. Tinctures are made with a cold polar solvent, ethanol indeed. That means that you could actually extract more or less the same quantity of material but you are gonna end up with different molecules, having the more polar molecules extracted with ethanol and the less ones with hexane. This means you could actually have different smells, making the dilution issue a "non-issue".
    Hmm, interesting. I'd not thought of that aspect.

    Now my chemistry isn't top-notch so I may have misunderstood this, but isn't ethanol such a useful solvent because it is both polar (like water) and non-polar (like hexane)? Technically polar at one end of the molecule and non-polar at the other?

    Anyway even if that is right your essential point about different things being extracted stands: the ethanol should bring out more variety of components than say hexane, then ethanol though not necessarily as much of the non-polar components.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    You are not wrong but it's slightly more complex. Ethanol is definitely polar, though actually it's still an organic solvent (i.e. contains a chain of carbon atoms, in this case two) so it dissolves with most of the nonpolar solvents, even though NOT in great concentration. So I wouldn't say that ethanol brings out more variety since it would need a longer carbon chain to be able to extract non polar molecules. As a general rule with with ethanol it would be easier to extract molecules with nitrogen and oxigen atoms like alcohols (organic molecules with OH groups, like say citronellol) aldehydes (that we all know pretty well), and ketones (like many musks). Anyway, it's not so easy, it depends on how big the molecule is and what is its shape.
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  13. #13

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Thank you. That is fascinating and clears up all confusions. I have been learning all about the chains, aldehydes and ketone structures. There is so much to learn. I wondered how hexane worked.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    You may want to study some organic chemistry then it's not so hard after all
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  15. #15

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    If based around perfume, then yes. I studied chemistry, physics and biology... but long ago. It's amazing how each and every action on the same substrate, such as honey in this instance, affects the smell. Then the different types of waxes and honeys too. It is no wonder that one has to try so many different types from each manufacturer to find the one each of our own noses feels comfortable with. That is what makes perfumery such fun and such a challenge.

    As a captive organic chemist on this thread, what might you say was the most effective method of extracting the 'purest' odour from honey? The truest essence as if in it's raw state.

    Is there a chemical answer?
    Is it by olfactory result?
    Is it likely that each extraction method might have a predictable odour alteration tendency i.e darkening or roughening or smoothing or suchlike?

    Sorry. Rather a lot of questions...
    ...and without the stickiness of the sugar too.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    I'm always happy to answers questions about chemistry let's start with a fact: we can't tell what should be the "purest" odour of honey (or any other raw material) since actually extracting all the odour molecules from honey doesn't mean that you are gonna have something which smells the same. The final smell of honey depends on how and when those molecules come out and reach our nose and that might be different from what happens in the product you extract because of a lot of factors. Anyway, of course with a good extraction we could get very close. The best way to know what solvent should fit is to know what are the key chemicals in honey note, that means that we would need a GC/MS (well actually in this case an LC/MS would be necessary I guess) report, and with it decide the type of solvent considering mainly its polarity. A key factor in chosing a solvent for extraction is its volatility as well: you need to be able to remove it easily with heating at reduced pressure. This happens with hexane but not for ethanol, and that's mainly why hexane is used in industries
    So, long story "short" you could always try with ethanol but the result won't be the same as the one with hexane or similars. The fact is that actually ethanol remains the only choice unless you have a professional labware available, including a rotary evaporator (about 3000£ )
    I don't know if I answered to everything. In my head chemistry is clear but when trying to explain it, it becomes suddenly blurry! besides that I'm italian so it's not always easy to speak my mind in a correct way while writing in english.
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  17. #17

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    You can write in italian. We can translate it..... This is an international forum after all.

    You've answered a lot there. Thank you. The most important answer here for tincture tinkerers is that the ethanol remains our only extraction choice unless we have a super lab. If we wish for more choice, then buying the manufactured absolutes is the only option. It does take out the strife factor.

    What would you do with honey?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Oh no, I can manage it with english don't worry. And, most important, I wouldn't improve it if I didn't use it

    You could try using ethanol with honey as well, maybe DPG would do even better, but in that case using it in perfumes could turn it pretty viscous. Maybe even buying some hexane wouldn't be too difficult but I would not reccomend it: even though it could maybe be removed somehow even with normal heating it could be VERY dangerous since the vapours, and the liquid itself, are extremely flammable.
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  19. #19

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by otocione View Post
    Oh no, I can manage it with english don't worry. And, most important, I wouldn't improve it if I didn't use it

    You could try using ethanol with honey as well, maybe DPG would do even better, but in that case using it in perfumes could turn it pretty viscous. Maybe even buying some hexane wouldn't be too difficult but I would not reccomend it: even though it could maybe be removed somehow even with normal heating it could be VERY dangerous since the vapours, and the liquid itself, are extremely flammable.
    You can certainly buy hexane easily enough, but I agree it would not be a good thing to mess about with without the proper equipment.

    Another option would be the old fashioned way that many floral and other aromas were captured: macerate the material with a fixed oil of some sort (traditionally high-purity mutton and beef fat were used, but I dare say DPG or fractionated coconut oil might make a good alternative), heat them together to get the aromatics into the oil, then use alcohol to wash the aromatics out of the oil. The trouble with doing that with honey is you'd need to ensure you got rid of all the sugary bits, before alcohol washing otherwise the sugar, being alcohol soluble, will end up in the perfume. That shouldn't be too hard with the aid of a separatory funnel or even just careful pouring off though.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    That's true Chris, sugar could be a problem being actually very soluble in ethanol. The funnel idea is good actually, maybe the only problem is their cost (about 50€, not SO exagerate actually). I have a train trip waiting for me, I'll be thinking of an alternative solution
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  21. #21

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by sehrgut View Post
    I'm thinking a 50% honey-water solution would be easier (viscosity-wise) to extract, and could probably be worked with hexane or naphtha in a separatory funnel, maybe with successive changes of honey solution and a couple extractions to get full extraction of the concrete.

    Another possibility is "fluid enfleurage" into a fixed oil (lots of time and shaking) and then extracting that with alcohol.
    Quote Originally Posted by sehrgut View Post
    My sep funnels are coming in the mail next week, and I'm gonna be trying the sesame oil that was previously discussed, and would like to try honey as well . . .
    I think this thread has gone full circle.

    I have been tincturing molasses too. That is what one would have assumed to be a similar sugar content, but it doesn't seem to dissolve in anything except water, not ethanol, DPG or oil. The honey has been successful in oil and ethanol, but leaves a sheen with the ethanol, so I presume this is the sugar.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Full circle indeed.

    Sugar certainly does not dissolve in dpg or oil - that's why sugar scrubs work - but it is very soluble in ethanol so I'm surprised you could make a tincture of molasses without getting sugar in it: where does the sugar end up?
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    I think this thread has gone full circle.

    I have been tincturing molasses too. That is what one would have assumed to be a similar sugar content, but it doesn't seem to dissolve in anything except water, not ethanol, DPG or oil. The honey has been successful in oil and ethanol, but leaves a sheen with the ethanol, so I presume this is the sugar.
    Actually molasses contains a lot of other compounds besides sugar so it's not strange it doesn't dissolve in ethanol. Sure with water every trace of sugar has gone directly into your tincture.
    The sheen of honey in ethanol is not sugar at all, maybe some waxy molecule which is surely contained and is too nonpolar to be dissolved by ethanol.
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  24. #24

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by otocione View Post
    Actually molasses contains a lot of other compounds besides sugar so it's not strange it doesn't dissolve in ethanol. Sure with water every trace of sugar has gone directly into your tincture.
    The sheen of honey in ethanol is not sugar at all, maybe some waxy molecule which is surely contained and is too nonpolar to be dissolved by ethanol.
    I fear the chemistry here may be getting beyond me - are you saying that the sugar in the molasses is bound to some of its other constituents in such a way as to make it insoluble in ethanol, but still allowing it to dissolve in water? What kind of bond would do that and to what? It sounds like it might be a jolly useful property if it could be isolated . . .

    Oh and I agree about the sheen - you wouldn't see that on the ethanol unless it was floating on it and that sugar wouldn't do - something left over from the beeswax?
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Well Chris I think it's much simpler than that, but I must admit that you could be a great chemist since this is exactly how chemists think actually I never "studied" the chemical composition of molasses and I do not know very much of it, but referring to its wikipedia page it seems to contain a lot of other stuff like inorganic salts, vitamins, other kinds of carbohydrates etc. Looks like it can also change a lot between the different types of molasses. So my conclusion is that maybe sucrose itself (the correct name of common sugar) maybe dissolves with ethanol but everything else remains solid so that molasses appears not to be soluble at all. Anyway of course the interaction between the different components cannot be totaly excluded so your hypothesis could partly be the reason of it all The fact is that with products directly derived from plants it's extremely hard to tell precisely WHAT actually is inside, and even some compound present only in traces could act somehow to screw your plans..!
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  26. #26
    gecko214's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    I have access to hexane here, and have been able to use it to make my own concrete. I did this with Bakul flowers (Mimusops elengi) and Oakmoss (harvested in France at my home there, and extracted here in Burma where I live for my work). I let it evaporate naturally, and in a few hours had the concrete (I suppose some volatiles are lost this way, but that's all I can do). The concrete I then washed with 96% ethanol (also blissfully available here, at $1 a liter) and then just keep it that way. The reading I have done says this "extract" keeps a fuller range of notes than if it is then evaporated to an absolute (and the fact I don't have a rotary evaporator and vacuum pump). The Oakmoss did not give much concrete at all, but is true to the original substrate (although not exactly as nice as the ones I have bought) and the Bakul flower is incredibly powerful and EXACTLY like the fresh flower. On honey, I could do an experiment for the group if you like, using hexane, to see if that extracts the scent without the sugar. I would be afraid to heat it, but I suppose I would do it as a cold hexane tincture, like I did with the above, so it might take a while. Let me know. Hexane is a bit more pricy as it is lab grade and $10/liter (and I have no way of recovering it when I evaporate it off.) I would just do a small amount, maybe 50mls for the experiment before doing more. Any advice from our chemist on how to do that, of course, would be welcome.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Hi Gecko thanks for your report. What you describe is a good procedure for obtaining absolutes, which as you said are yelded by the final ethanol evaporation by distillation, but the idea of keeping it in ethanol solution is not bad, since I guess you are gonna use it in alcoholic perfumes. The only missing passage is the removal of hexane at reduced pressure, which you somehow replaced with the spontaneous evaporation. Actually it's not a bad idea since hexane is very volatile but there are three issues with it: the loss of odouriferous molecules, the complete loss of the solvent, and most important the impossibility to remove completely the hexane from the concrete, so traces ar gonna remain in the ethanol solution as well. It's normal that flowers yeld a better result than oakmoss, which I think needs much stronger conditions like at least hot hexane or better steam distillation. I may try the latter soon since I just built a steam distiller at home
    I think it would be a good idea to try it with honey as well if you wish to! You can just repeat the procedure you described and see what happens. With hexane sugar is going to remain solid surely.
    Last edited by otocione; 4th November 2011 at 01:51 PM. Reason: mistype
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  28. #28

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    I obtained an ordinary vegetable steamer with three layers with an upside down funnel siliconed onto a hole made in the top. This attaches to a heath robinson still made of a proper glass still head, then a proper glass graham condenser which is kept cool by means of a fish pump in a bucket with ice. Rudimentary but fairly effective on herbs. I haven't tried with expensive things. Just clippings from the garden. It will be far too messy with honey.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Ahah great! I wanted to make it a little bigger so I used a pressure cooker, a copper tube properly bent, and a modified plastic bucket as a condenser. I'm gonna make the first try with cedarwood since I have a Lebanon cedar in my garden
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  30. #30

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    I can see that the advent of the niche extractor of absolutes to go with the niche perfumer is not far off . . . before you know it we'll be back to the 17th century practice and all learning to make gloves!
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    I was looking for the glass condenser for some time. They occasionally come up as second hand labware on e-bay, as did the glass still head. I didn't think of a pressure cooker....... food for thought.

  32. #32

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    I can see that the advent of the niche extractor of absolutes to go with the niche perfumer is not far off . . . before you know it we'll be back to the 17th century practice and all learning to make gloves!

    Not before you know it.... already! That's what I spend much of my time doing... recreating ancient recipes for the purposes of learning. I have the original recipe for the gloves and the pattern for them too. Yes, obsessed. I know.

  33. #33

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    I was looking for the glass condenser for some time. They occasionally come up as second hand labware on e-bay, as did the glass still head. I didn't think of a pressure cooker....... food for thought.
    I'll post some picture so that you can understand the layout, just let me find them
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  34. #34

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    I can see that the advent of the niche extractor of absolutes to go with the niche perfumer is not far off . . . before you know it we'll be back to the 17th century practice and all learning to make gloves!
    Ahah, yes Chris despite all glove are so useful, why should I buy them if I can make them at home in industrial quantity?
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  35. #35

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Here we go: first pic overall, second pic tube-cooker connection, third pic inside modification of the cooker to host a hand made brace which should hold the plant material.





    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  36. #36

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  37. #37

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    Ahah! Say something!
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  38. #38
    gecko214's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Well since we're well down the path of home extraction, I would also recommend a soxhlet extractor ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soxhlet_extractor ). I have a small one and it provides hours of fun. Allows for easy, pretty safe, continuous hot alcohol extraction. Better for less fragile things, and I will be trying it with the oakmoss for example. I have done green tea, Poo Er tea, malabar leaf and spikenard. Otocione, Your points are well taken on the hexane. Loss of the solvent I can do nothing about, but I did leave out one step: once the solvent is evaporated as much as I can see from the naked eye, I put it the resulting goo briefly over a bain marie to try to get out the remaining hexane. Do you think that is sufficient? I certainly don't smell any of it in the final product.

  39. #39

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by gecko214 View Post
    Well since we're well down the path of home extraction, I would also recommend a soxhlet extractor ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soxhlet_extractor ). I have a small one and it provides hours of fun. Allows for easy, pretty safe, continuous hot alcohol extraction. Better for less fragile things, and I will be trying it with the oakmoss for example. I have done green tea, Poo Er tea, malabar leaf and spikenard. Otocione, Your points are well taken on the hexane. Loss of the solvent I can do nothing about, but I did leave out one step: once the solvent is evaporated as much as I can see from the naked eye, I put it the resulting goo briefly over a bain marie to try to get out the remaining hexane. Do you think that is sufficient? I certainly don't smell any of it in the final product.
    Well this is a good idea certainly, though the reason why the reduced pressure is used in industry is that even at high temperature solvent molecules can remain trapped in your product if you are at atmospheric pressure. Actually if you ask me "is there some hexane molecule hanging around in my solution" I would say "yes of course", but at this point I don't think it could be harmful at all and I would say that it should not affect the smell of the extract.
    My main concerns about hexane is that it could be pretty dangerous if not handled properly (much more than ethanol actually) so I don't feel like giving the advice of using it. Anyway your report is very useful for those who think they can make it.
    The Soxhlet is a really nice instrument, it could be very useful and quite funny as well it's some kind of a hybrid between steam distillation and solvent extraction. But I have to say it's too small for me
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  40. #40

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    i don't have any Machines, "seperatory funnels", etc, others, & i have no money at all, in my home i had only measuring cups, spoons, Bottles, & Jars only... i'm only a simple high school student & a DIYer, i make HOMEMADE Perfumes but i want to do it like REAL DESIGNER PERFUME .... i use "Vodka, distilled water, essential oils, tocopherol / vitamin e, & Pure Glycerine ..i hate it because the smell not lasts long, not strong, & the scent is not scattering because It's ALWAYS FAIL. can you kindly please help me?

    ...okay my problem how to make "honey absolute" was solved, thanks for the sharing of your ideas, but may i please kindly ask you? How can i get These extracts from Raw Materials REAL White Chocolate & Tea (Tea leaves in a tea bag)? Kindly Please need your help, Thank you very so much!

  41. #41

    Default Re: Honey Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by Nechel View Post
    i don't have any Machines, "seperatory funnels", etc, others, & i have no money at all, in my home i had only measuring cups, spoons, Bottles, & Jars only... i'm only a simple high school student & a DIYer, i make HOMEMADE Perfumes but i want to do it like REAL DESIGNER PERFUME .... i use "Vodka, distilled water, essential oils, tocopherol / vitamin e, & Pure Glycerine ..i hate it because the smell not lasts long, not strong, & the scent is not scattering because It's ALWAYS FAIL. can you kindly please help me?

    ...okay my problem how to make "honey absolute" was solved, thanks for the sharing of your ideas, but may i please kindly ask you? How can i get These extracts from Raw Materials REAL White Chocolate & Tea (Tea leaves in a tea bag)? Kindly Please need your help, Thank you very so much!
    First off, please donít repeat the same question in lots of places - it wonít get you an answer quicker anyway.

    Second, Ďreal designer perfumeí is made with denatured ethanol, a selection of 50-1000 aroma chemicals and a few natural essential oils and absolutes in the blend.

    It isnít made with tinctures of chocolate, tea bags, vodka or glycerine and you donít need to add water (especially not if you are using vodka, which is probably mostly water anyway). I suggest you have a good read through the Primer on Making Perfume thread for some ideas of where to start.

    Extracting raw materials for yourself is an advanced stage, that most DIY perfumers donít attempt until they have become proficient with using ready-extracted essential oils etc so I think you are trying to start by running before youíve walked!
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

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