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  1. #1

    Default Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    I am at a turning point in my acceptance of Guerlain's slow demise. My latest 1000ml bee bottle of Mouchoir de Monsieur contains a pale juice that is but a shadow of its former self, with longevity similar to "Eau du Coq," and the new Jicky Eau de Toilette sprays are, at best, fey and characterless: They almost smell like Jean Nate body splash. The newly packaged Jicky parfum, in its champagne coloured box, has gone high pitched and sweet, and lost a good deal of its signature civet from flight to base. Recently, and quite by accident, I found that mixing 60% jicky (current) parfum and 40% (current Mouchoir de Monsieur) makes a juice very similar to the Jicky edt we all remember and love. This was not layering: this was "I mixed up my atomizers and filled my Jicky Parfum one with Mouchoir." The Guerlain brothers made shalimar by dumping the freshly invented synthetic vanilla into Jicky extract just to see "what it would give." Does anyone have any clever home-mix solutions to help counteract the demise of Guerlain, which, since the unfortunate departure of Monsieur Guerlain, a shameless maneuver on the part of Guerlain, is clearly underway and presents nothing but mediocrity apparent on the horizon, judging from the newbie's comps, which are all quite common by my take, some outright offensive, and the train wrecks of wan nothingness the classics have become in their current incarnations? Here's another experiment I did, simply because I was brave: I took a full 30ml Jicky parfum, current formulation, and, with a pipette, introduced one musk laden, skanky drop of vintage "le dix" extract in it from the 60's that had been perfectly preserved, glass-stopper sealed, and still wrapped up in its "papier griffe:" Though this made the entire 30+ ml that resulted noticeably different, the results were pleasant, and intriguing enough to wear, effectively bringing back some of the funk and weirdness that we Jicky lovers crave, though not for as much replicating actual vintage Jicky. Has anyone toyed around with this? Those of us who have worn these scents for years, made signatures of them, are all left out in the cold: Guerlain clearly does not care about their classic ranges, and no amount of pretty bottle/tight distribution is worth an edt with next to no staying power or a parfum that's meant "to smell like feet" and now smells more like lemon pledge or baby wipes: At those prices, why can a house like Comme des Garcons make a masterpiece that lasts ten hours under current regulations, while Guerlain SA's sit and yammer on about their woes and heartbreaks concerning the DNA of their brand and how it's being ignored, even insulted, by its current power players? If Bernard Arnault could confidently appoint the likes of Marc Jacobs to step into the shoes of John Galliano himself, one of the last great living couturiers, and think that's not sacrilege to the House of Dior, imagine what we have in store for minimal money makers like Guerlain? Thoughts? Anyone?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Mouchoir, that critique was hilarious.

    As the folks of Guerlain do browse this forum, hopefully they can pick up the pulse from the perfume-loving community who buy their products. I am still really peeved at the hideous new design for Derby--that monstrosity they use to bottle the Arsene Lupin scents. (This is the one like the Odori bottle--rectangular wooden.)

    (Granted that Derby went from the cockroach carapace design to the elegant bee bottle, but why that minimalist box of a contraption?)

    As a buyer of the 1000ml of Mouchoir de Monsieur, you have some amount of consumer clout, and I would suggest you direct your observations and concerns to the boutiques, which have connections with corporate.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Yes, that would be the obvious route: But I don't need to speak to anyone in the Guerlain boutiques, since I myself have connections to their corporate structures, and speak regularly to them: I have ordered countless bottles: liters and liters of scent--I have so many empty 1000ml bee bottles that some of them are ground glass stoppered: That's how long I've been at this. Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur have been my signature scents since I was a teenager. There is no hope. All they can say is "regulations.....regulations......" and of course they won't discuss their hideous behaviour toward Monsieur Guerlain: They will however harp on endlessly about the newbie: From the get go, an upstart in my book, which is of no importance whatsoever, yet this status seems proven by his "creations" which, unless one seeks to smell like a monstrous pink japanese hello kitty cupcake, are all unwearable if one is a purist, hardcore Guerlain devotee, which I have been for over 25 years, and my family has been for well over one hundred years. Guerlain SA's now moan and winge about these regulations. What else to do? But, examine some of the niche comps: Serge Lutens, Comme des Garcons: How are they doing it? A vapo of the exquisite Comme des Garcons "Carnation" contains about 100ml of juice, costing ariund 60E, +/-$85.00US, that makes a guerlain extract look and behave like Jean Marie Farina or 4711. When you consider that 100ml of Jicky parfum, or any Guerlain parfum, rings in at around $1000.00US, how can any of us compute that, unlimited means or not? My question/the topic of this thread is not designed to ring bells at Guerlain: They love what they're doing, and, for us, things will only get worse: Believe you me, as does it not appear that they care for nothing we random users have to say, unless of course we're part of their marketing research team, whose observations breed every single one of their new intros into the market? When you consider that Monsieur Jacques Guerlain had only this to say to the press when he was still alive: "Sometimes, I feel so hard, I can only express myself in a fragrance," and that recently, the newbie went on the BBC and flippantly dismissed Monsieur Jean paul Guerlain himself, recently fired over the much discussed "affaire negre*," calling him, and I quote: "Just an old lion" (sic) who..."Should be regarded as such: an old lion" I'm afraid you've got the fall of Rome re-enacting itself in full gore and fire at number 68 Champs Elysees: What else does that look like to you? (*many french use the saying "travailler comme un negre" quite fluently. They also stood by passively in the streets of paris in the 90's watching while their unbridled "Front National" whipped themselves into a frenzy of hatred carrying signs and chanting "Death to Jews!" Meantime, John Galliano, the last person on earth who could be considered racist or anti-semite, being an outsider himself, was summarily fired at Dior and will now be publicly tried for anti-semitism, which is illegal in France, for having had a rough night, poured down a few too many, then very obviously swallowed the wrong pill, then later being accosted by a couple on the terrace of a popular cafe who thought he was homeless. Just a little background info....)
    Last edited by le mouchoir de monsieur; 11th September 2011 at 07:07 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    I guess that means you're not happy in the direction that Guerlain has been heading of late. A powerful indictment.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    "Not Happy" doesn't cover it. I need pharmaceuticals to deal with this: It is as if my own identity were being destroyed before my very eyes. How could anyone who has grown up in Guerlain be happy with their current state of affairs? above, I write that I've been wearing Guerlain religiously for 25 years: I lied. It's been more like 35 years: I would love to know the number of Jicky soaps i've melted--the quantities of bath oil--hair-tonic--hair spray--powder--perfume (all of this was made and available in my lifetime)--eau de cologne (I've always used "Eau du Coq" and as a child this was used for sponge bathing, and as a remedy for headaches, general malaise as well as mosquito repellent: still effective for all these applications) Whatever it is that I am, it's beyond not being happy. I feel violated. raped. I've decided that I will no longer continue with Guerlain, I, who for years and years, said, and believed, "Once you've used Guerlain, you can't use anything else." Now I'm saying: "If you use Guerlain, you'd better start using something else." My quest: What, and how?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    If one is that well connected with corporate, I think you are honour-bound to tell them the truth--for the sake of the rest of us.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    I have to agree that the longevity of the current Jicky parfum is absolutely abysmal.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Strong statement, Monsieur! I fear I have nothing valueable to add, but your point is very valid. Jicky in its current state is so inoffensive that it is utterly boring. We are in for more surprises with new batches of extraits of their classics, we also know that...
    Turn to Caron and support the LAST existing house that still produces old-world haute parfumerie style fragrances! If this is gone, French perfumery is dead! You know that I feel strongly about this...

  9. #9

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Quote Originally Posted by Larimar View Post
    Strong statement, Monsieur! I fear I have nothing valueable to add, but your point is very valid. Jicky in its current state is so inoffensive that it is utterly boring. We are in for more surprises with new batches of extraits of their classics, we also know that...
    Turn to Caron and support the LAST existing house that still produces old-world haute parfumerie style fragrances! If this is gone, French perfumery is dead! You know that I feel strongly about this...
    I tried Caron's Narcisse Noire extrait (thanks to a kind BNer) and it has a marvelous civety note.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Enjoyed your post. My beloved Mitsouko is now something like a candy I can't identify. I can't believe the beauty I discovered at 17 back in 1972 has been so reduced to this .

  11. #11

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    I think you should go vintage and not only Guerlain as I appreciate the price. I wonder have you tried Lanvin's Scandal or Coty's L'Origin , Scherrer , Marc Sinan ? I am no great nose so can't say that any match the beauty of Guerlains. They can be bought for a reasonable price .You might try Etsy as one seller often has tulip bottles of vintage at a good price.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Quote Originally Posted by Larimar View Post
    Strong statement, Monsieur! I fear I have nothing valueable to add, but your point is very valid. Jicky in its current state is so inoffensive that it is utterly boring. We are in for more surprises with new batches of extraits of their classics, we also know that...
    Turn to Caron and support the LAST existing house that still produces old-world haute parfumerie style fragrances! If this is gone, French perfumery is dead! You know that I feel strongly about this...
    I agree about Caron , I especially love Violette Precieuse which I have to find on eBay .

  13. #13

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Yet Luca Turin dismisses the Carons has shadows of what they once where. I still adore my Carons. Guerlain I am lucky I have stored away the Pdt and parfum of Jicky from the late 90s early 00s and two bottles of the older MdM which still has its kick ass civet vibe.

    I blame LVHM for jumping on command to change and removed ingredients as instructed. The ink has not dried on the paper for the new regulations and they immediately rushed to obey. Of course the well it might be cheaper to produce the new ingredients and save money has nothing to do with it.
    DONNA

  14. #14

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Sounds interesting, though, taking layering to new frontiers

  15. #15

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    As a newbie, I cannot compare the current formulas to the glories of the past, but I often find myself underwhelmed when I smell things. Almost serendipitously, I happened to spray Jicky perfume from a tester yesterday, and I see your point. It's still pleasant, but I wondered, what was all the fuss about the civet? Chamade and Vol de nuit parfums, whether changed or not, still smell good and exciting to me. Perhaps I should jump and buy before they are further debased.

    Narcisse Noir keeps coming back... The EDT is clearly unsatisfactory, and corresponds to LT's description. Perhaps I should jump too and buy the extrait to check.

    cacio

  16. #16

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    This is what I can surmise about what's going on at Guerlain. First of all, way back when LVMH bought guerlain from the Guerlain brothers, I worked for and reported to a very important individual in the fragrance world in Paris. His first words when the deal went through ran thus: "That'll be the end of that." Of course, it took years, but now we face the undeniable prediction coming true.
    I don't think it's "the money" that is making them follow these new restrictions, which have destroyed their entire library, I think it's lack of interest in their classics, save for shalimar which essentially keeps them in business, along with their skin care, cosmetics and fashion related sku's like lipstick: Recently, they introduced one of the best lipsticks on the market, "Rouge Automatique," with a packaging idea they bill "revolutionary" (one hand application, no lid) that is nothing more or less than a rip off of Jean Patou's invention, "le lift," which was introduced in the 1930's. These items make them a tremendous amount of money. What's not making them money are things like Jicky and other classics that, despite their exorbitant cost to buy, cost them more just to keep them available. This is why some classics, like "apres l'ondee," just come in that small bee bottle spray of edt. The regulations are a headache/bank drain for them, as they must reformulate everything to accommodate them. My main source of frustration is that, in their reformualtions, they've slapped together the classics, and laboured endlessly on the newbie's comps--which interestingly, are now like "stains" and will not fade: Those tall rectangular bottled comps are indelible--like "cuir beluga"--and that unmentionably nauseating "Insolence" is equally tenacious. Spray some like-strength classic, and it's gone in 25 minutes. Note also they have discontinued the signature boxes for all classics--the forrest green Jicky parfum box is now just a white carton--the zebra velvet of "vol de nuit" now just a strip of printed paper glued onto the same white box: Gone, the persian violet velvet of shalimar. Sticking to fragrance, Guerlain cares only for their new comps: the rest, they're merely bothered with. Remember: Some synthetic ingredients are better and more expensive than the natural ones they try to replicate. Guerlain also pioneered the usage of preservatives and embraced synthetics before any other house of importance: Thus the birth of Shalimar, with "Vaniline" Thus the birth of Jicky, with "Coumarine." It's not money: It's lack of interest and a fading/dying market. For every 100 devotees of "L'heure bleue" there are 100,000 waiting in line for "My Insolence." Among the 100 devotees of "L'heure bleue," more than half are over 70 years old, and soon, they will be dead: We will never solve, nor will we change the demise of Guerlain. We simply must face it. My hope was that those of us who are "Guerlain to the bone" would find a way to maintain our fragrant identity without ever having to step inside 68 Champs Elysees, because they are engineering a kind of plot that makes us pariahs and unwanted clients: Let them have all those japanese girls with their hot pink polk-a-dot tights: For that which concerns me, my very "Mouchoir" is screaming for some other brand of "Monsieur." Caron: Yes, Larimar--I agree--but don't let's get addicted to that, because that will simply be a "shut down" or a "re-buy"--most likely the former. Caron is not for everyone. It takes guts to wear those: another kind of guts than are required for something like "Mitsouko" or "Vol de Nuit." Some have them, others don't. In answer to your (private) question: So what if I'm pouring "Tabac Original" all over me? at 16E for 10oz--I can--and, personally, I don't think it smells like a German tourist: That's more......"Eau de Cologne 4711 + no deodorant + no bathing + walking around for days in the heat with a back pack on, full of dirty socks" ..... Devotees of Jicky: the best I can get thus far is made of Jicky--(30ml parfum, one drop vintage "le dix" extract)--*thank you: You know who you are!*-- Another one, again, made of Guerlain: Dousing in Mouchoir de Monsieur Edt (current) and "dabbing" Comme des Garcons "Carnation" on pulse points. Here's my beef: if you "layer," using your wrist as a springboard, spraying CdG carnation as a base, with one blast of MdM, it's divine--but in 20 minutes, all that is apparent is "Carnation," and Mouchoir de Monsieur has fainted and wilted and retired to his boudoir, clearly terminal, coughing up blood and grasping for his tattered "Rousseau" volumes. I think if we can all figure this out we can "make" Guerlains, as we remember them: an imaginary sketch: to get "Jicky," take a whole bottle of "Fantastic Man," and mix in just two drops of "Muscs Kublai-Kahn" by SL: Both of these are available, neither are Guerlain, and with the sillage/potency of both, I'd bet the end result would equal 90ml of erzats Jicky parfum. Guerlainistas: Either spend yourself homeless on e-bay for vintage, which by the way will not provide a lifetime of indulgence, or move on. Since "Common" is the new "Extraordinary," I rather like my Tabac Original--and by the way, L, everyone else seems to as well!

  17. #17
    Frag Bomb Squadron XVII
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    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    I applaud you for doing whatever's necessary to save your perfume identity from extinction even if it means grafting on what may be considered a foreign entity.

    I'm not a fan of Marc Jacobs fragrances so I'm not thrilled with his appointment at Dior. And I wonder how does Wasser's report card look like after another year at Guerlain?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    In my own opinion, which means nothing, It took only one sentence out of the newbie's mouth to earn an American School "F," a French School "0/20." If John Galliano, who, on top of being one of the last great couturiers the world will ever see, can be dismissed summarily by Dior, S.A, and then, not to be outdone, allowed to be publicly dragged through the mire of the French court system for defending himself on the terrace of a French cafe after swallowing the wrong pill with a few drinks after a hard day's work, then I would say the newbie should be happy with his "F" / 0/20: He still has his job, and is confident enough in it to declare to the world with a smirk of disgust that "Jean Paul Guerlain is (nothing but) an old lion." If Bernard Arnault is issuing his report card--I'm sure he's come in with flying colours. If an american club kid, now middle aged, apparently pumped full of chemicals and money can now reign at the house of Dior, why could some random newbie who had an in not call the shots at Guerlain? All of this makes sublime business sense: In the future, powerful consumers will care nothing for innovation nor will they give a fig about art: They will care only for what Beyonce or Keith Urban have to say about looking and smelling great. Marc Jacobs is the perfect choice for this new era of brain drain technology. The newbie at Guerlain--same: A perfect choice to keep Guerlain alive. The future smells like that hot pink cupcake, NOT the Catleya on Odette de Bricassart's Worth taffetas ball gown. So: Let them prosper. The empires of luxury care only for money coming in, and they will do anything that is required for that to continue. Paris, other European capitols, even America, have no shortage of visionary poets pounding the sidewalks, starving, picking up pins, living in squalid, cramped studios: Apparently none get through the door at the Guerlains--the Diors--the Louis Vuittons--because consumers, and by that I don't mean us, (I mean the innocent walk in at a department store/duty free) are the fuel that keeps these houses afloat: Without a marc jacobs sprawled out all greased up, naked, pumped fullof spray tan with an ugly bottle on his crotch, they're just not interested. If the latest Guerlain doesn't smell like chocolate chip cookies baking, they'll simply whiff and say: "smells like my grandmother." Seriously: For us, independence is where it's at. We can't be followers, people. We just can't.
    Last edited by le mouchoir de monsieur; 11th September 2011 at 06:54 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    We can't slander, either. What we can do, is collectively figure out how to survive in a world that simply will no longer be producing our souls as olfactory assertion. My discussion here is not meant to be a winge-fest about how everything is going down, as there are far too many of these already in progress. My discussion here seeks to trouble shoot on how we can create our own--be they copies of our deceased greats or our own versions of them--or, better still, a perfect illustration of one's identity, as "Jicky" happens to be with me. Jicky has my name on it, literally. That's how I found it as a child: Ask any "Charlie" about how this pans out.

    Hopefully, our discussion will go this way:

    "I'm just sort of completely enthralled with Dr. Harris's "Whatever," and I think it might be a PERFECT base for a Jicky comp. I'm now testing out its tenacity--One drop of "le dix" in this full bottle--I'm near sure--is just going to be me."

    or:

    "Ugh!!!!! I just shot a full liter of Mouchoir de Monsieur" to hell by putting just ONE DROP of civet in it--that's one drop in 1000ml--and now it just smells like dirty arse."

    hopefully not:

    "So and so is wanker"

    or

    "Why are they such wankers?"

    SO: How about let's give that a whirl? Chemists, to arms! You need: screw top bottles of fragrance, or stoppered ones. To decant a vapo, spray it out into a measuring cup and pour it into a clean empty screw cap or glass stopper. Lots of pipettes. Wash perfume things in "EVERCLEAR" alcohol--available at cheap liquor stores near you--NOT isopropyl. A bunch of empty screw top pyrex bottles (they sell them in head shops) and a desire to blend your own soul--you yourself--not some "House." My first bit of advice if you have any, Be careful with civet.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    So, while it's still with us, do support Caron! Douse yourself with Pour Un Homme! It is much more classy than Tabac... I am sure... okay, I admit I haven't tried it, but the sheer thought....
    But yes, I agree with you very much, unfortunately! Your prospect, I fear, is spot-on... a pink candy future is lying ahead...

  21. #21

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    OK, L: How about this: I have an unopened bottle of "Pour un Homme" from the 90's: 500ml. What can I drop in to it to make it less "18 year old French Boy" and more "46 year old aging rock star?" suggestions??????

  22. #22

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    .....I meant: "46 Year Old Aging Rock Star Royalty"

  23. #23

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    ...and furthermore, I did have to be amused when I examined the box of "Tabac Original" and found that it's made in Germany!!!!! "Volkswagon. The Fragrance." Of course many will have not smelled it, least of all those divas among us, of whom I am one, who have grown up eyeing it suspiciously: It doesn't smell like anything. In fact, I would revise my comment above as: "Audi. The Fragrance." It just smells good. When it starts smelling cheap, which it does, the "kind" of cheap that comes forth is a forgotten, foreign one: Not modern watermelon cheap. There's another one: I have 10oz of this--should I drop in "Rose de Nuit" and then see if I can then actually wear my rose de nuit? because that bell jar has been in its box since 1993--but quite honestly: isn't the worst insult you can give to a perfume the act of not wearing it?

  24. #24

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    I think the last of the Crown Perfumery line were bought out by a German firm.

    Anglo-sounding names made in Germany. Heck, I think Aramis is made in Switzerland.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    le MdM, I fear Rose de Nuit will stain anything you bring it in contact with...
    Maybe Your Rock Star Royalty will want to play around with Your vintage Shalimar?

  26. #26

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Interestingly, I have toyed around with this gargantuan amount of vintage shalimar that I have. I don't know what else to do with it: It's the well that will never go dry. It's fascinating how potent it is: Just a few drops will turn almost anything into Shalimar eau de....something....depending on how much you put in: I ruined 1/3 of my bee bottle of "attrape coeur" like this--attrape-coeur is a weird scent: I don't know why they can't ever produce it again, but they cant. At any rate it smells exactly like a cake of verbena savon de marseille, with a lemon twist, and it lasts forever. This is the one that was called "Guet-appens" and previous to that it was called something else: At any rate--this juice is remarkable because it is a citrus comp that is tenacious beyond belief, as all of these notes typically will fade. This edp I have will last 12 hours on skin--and by the 3rd hour, one starts getting tired of smelling like savon de marseille: I once got a massage in it and was told by a colleague that the massage room had to be aired out after i left as she was in the same day and the windows were open--she could still smell it--so there's an interesting ingredient: Attrape Coeur. A perfume that "is" the flight of most geurlains--that bergamot-lemon medly--interestingly, having syphoned off 1/3 of my bee bottle, I dropped a bit of shalimar perfume in this--and it just "became" shalimar eau de parfum--verbena soap, erased. I bet i could make a reasonable interpretation of jicky of it with about 60ml of pure lavender oil, some rose wood essential oil and one pin head dipped into my civet and immersed in the remainder--I'm just so scared of that civet!!!!! Does anybody have any real civet? because I do and it's hilarious: it smells EXACTLY like a dirty, unkempt old man who shat his pants and didn't care, and it's so strong that one single drop of it will turn 1000ml of anything into a "soliflore" of "Arse-Crack" !!!!!!

  27. #27

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Is there artificial/synthetic civet which can replace the natural one ? If the role of it in a fragrance is to offset/create a contrasting note in an otherwise sweet or flowery accord, synthetics can surely be used, rather than a product of the torture of fellow sentient beings ?
    I am aware my query does not answer you directly, MdM, and yet I wonder if looking away from your habits might not help yourself out of the rut.
    Vivre d’erreurs et de parfums.

    Pour comprendre le bonheur, il faut le voir comme étant une récompense et jamais un but. (Antoine de St Exupéry).

  28. #28

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Good call, Laureline. Civet, or "Civette" as we know it, is always synthetic. Natural Civet has been illegal for quite some time and is no longer used in modern perfumery, and hasn't been to my knowledge since the late 80's. The Civet I have, I believe, must be synthetic. Synthetics, when they are of good quality, often cost more than the natural essences they seek to replicate. So, it stands to reason that synthetic civet will be conceived to behave exactly as does the natural, which mine does. Unfortunately I can't verify that mine is synthetic or not: I know the provenance of it, that is, where I myself obtained it. (Not where it was made) It would be interesting to research exactly when Civet became an illegal export: I recollect it was 1989, along with Ambregris. Civet, be it natural or otherwise, is indeed one of the most powerful musks. We are here to discuss how to use it. (among other things) We are not here to discuss whether or not an animal was hurt or abused because of it: That discussion can be applied to the soles of your shoes, the food on your plate, and the clothing on your back. It may also be applied to all of the "Made in China" items to which we have all become
    addicted: How many fellow HUMANS suffered to bring us those? And what about India? How many children were involved embroidering that purse, or that scarf? I'm afraid this is not the forum upon which to battle out a discussion such as that. (There must be others, I'm sure.) Since we are now clearly off topic, On another note: today I experienced "Vitriol d'Oeillet" by Serge Lutens. "Angry Carnation" should have been called "S'mores baking." (Note: "S'mores" are: chocolate sandwiches you make over an open fire while camping with marshmallows and gallettes sablees) I who have been addicted to Comme des Garcons "Carnation" had high hopes for Serge Lutens & his furious carnation. Unfortunately, he proves the point I make above: It smells a bit like carnation, then turns into "Angel"-- I can take a LOT in a parfum sniff test--but this, I was near sick by mid day: I felt as if I'd eaten too much chocolate and I must admit I was quite disgusted by it. I don't want to smell like chocolate. Clearly, I prefer to smell like an old man's arse crack--attached as I am to civet--synthetic or otherwise. To some, this would be make perfect sense......

    "
    "

  29. #29

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    ....and to those "some," (you know who you are) please don't let's be discussing this on a public forum, hmm? :-)

  30. #30

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Of course MdM nobody is interested in discussing your preference for this side the other or both according to the weather.
    If the one liter of civette dilution you were gifted in the early nineties is synthetic,
    I dont believe your are of the people who actually care to verify the provenance of their goods, food and clothing. And fyi many more are than you seem to know, including me.

    So what is it you want to bring to discussion ?
    The ranting about the industry and Guerlain/LVMH well, you did that quite well indeed, with that touch of nostalgia.
    There is a thread or two in 'fragrance discussion' thread, the female I believe, where conversations are going on about Vitriol d'Oeillet.
    As for what to do with the materials you own, you could try talking with passionate diy'ers on the fragrance diy threads. You can surely awaken someone's interest into playing with you.
    Last edited by Laureline; 17th September 2011 at 10:31 PM.
    Vivre d’erreurs et de parfums.

    Pour comprendre le bonheur, il faut le voir comme étant une récompense et jamais un but. (Antoine de St Exupéry).

  31. #31

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    A suggestion for you Mdm, something that came back to me from the time we were writing regularly in our 'pen-friendship' : for the second part of your life (or n-th part lol) you want something to be a new signature, if I understand - so I thought alongside with dabbing in layering/mixing and exploring Caron with a new eye/nose - maybe you could try Italian perfumery. It is traditionnal yet just a bit different fron the French, and I remember you enjoyed the fougere of Yerbamate by Lorenzo Villoresi.
    Is this something ?
    Vivre d’erreurs et de parfums.

    Pour comprendre le bonheur, il faut le voir comme étant une récompense et jamais un but. (Antoine de St Exupéry).

  32. #32

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    I think we all know what it's like to suffer the unapologetic, indiscriminate toying with the perfumes we love. As I have mentioned to MdM, Lanvin, still in charge of all their parfums, does exactly the same thing. I guarantee, it's 100% financially based. "Whatever is cheaper, they'll never notice." I work for a manufacturer of an unrelated product, and that mindset is not unfamiliar to me.

    On the other hand, I have perfume ADD and while I've got many faves, I can be easily swayed with one whiff. Being a woman, I'm quite used to this treatment, considering they are constantly discontinuing favorite lipstick colors, mascaras, creams, bras ... you name it, if I like it, it's as good as gone. So I've learned to adapt. There are many wonderful new perfume houses, Bond No 9 is one I particularly like, as well as Frederic Malle. You can also buy up as much of the old stuff on eBay that you can. There's tons of it. Thank God for eBay!

    Another route I like to go is to find out the notes of a perfume and try to concoct my own mixture with essential perfume oils. While I haven't been able to ever mix anything to replace the original perfumes, I have made some very nice, very interesting mixtures that I regularly wear.

    BTW, I am as glad for synthetic ambergris as I am for synthetic civet! Thanks for clearing that up ... I was concerned!!!
    Last edited by pookerella; 23rd September 2011 at 02:11 AM.

  33. #33

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Aha! finally: Pookarella points directly to the meat of this discussion. With some serious thought and a deft hand, it is indeed possible to mix one's own perfume: How we go about this, is entirely up to each and every one--the best part: We don't have to worry about if it will sell! Here are some interesting new discoveries i've made:
    1. To dilute essential oil blends, use "Everclear"--the hard alcohol only down and out druggies buy--it's odourless, tasteless, and cheap as cheap gets. If "Everclear" is unavailable in your country, vodka works as well.
    2. The Spanish house of Puig, who also owns Nina Ricci, makes a 750ml plastic bottle size of their famous (and excellent) "Agua Lavanda." This makes a superb base for almost any comp. The lavender, rosemary and other ingredients it contains quickly fade into the background when heavy oils are dropped into it. It can also be used to make eau de toilette out of parfum, or eau de cologne out of out of eau de toilette, or, failing that, if there is a comp you fancy that you find is just too strong, it will dilute the comp beautifully. It sounds unlikely, but it works.
    3. Rather than "Layering" (which I've never believed in) actually mixing scents is a fascinating experience. Recently, I turned 500ml of Caron's "Pour un Homme" into 1000+ml of fake Jicky eau de parfum by adding small amounts of 5 different essential oils, (lemon, bergamot, rosewood, rose/jasmine mix, and opoponax) 500ml of "Agua Lavanda," a dropper full of vintage "le dix" extract, a half dropper full of Serge Lutens "Ambre Sultan," and a few molecules of synthetic civette: On a wrist to wrist whiff test, it was impossible to tell the difference, and I got 10 hours of wear out of my blend, which stands up nicely to the 15 minutes of wear one gets out of the current Jicky eau de toilette. It took a lot of thought and a deft hand, but it worked!
    4. I'm about to try to decant 500ml of this concoction and turn it into "Mouchoir de Monsieur" by adding patchouli and sandal wood oils. It's VERY important to not get carried away with the base note oils: they are very strong and will dominate any comp if over used: when devising a comp, build from the top down. (Of course the excellent quality of Caron was essentially what made this experiment work: My 15 year old bottle of "pour un homme" was as tenacious as a current guerlain "parfum." this is why I diluted it by half with the agua lavanda, which is essentially like water.
    QUESTION: does anybody know if using standard grade "food colouring" would disturb the balance of this kind of comp? It took me so long to get this right I was afraid to add colouring. I wanted the result to be a richer colour and would love to add a small amount of food colouring but I'm afraid to destroy the whole batch. Insights--anyone?

  34. #34

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    P.S.: Pookerella, I didn't bite her, but I did lick her.......
    P.P.S: Experiment related above was made even more fun by making "shooters" with the everclear & the food grade essential oils! Particularly delicious: the bergamot one! highly recommended!

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    QUESTION: does anybody know if using standard grade "food colouring" would disturb the balance of this kind of comp? It took me so long to get this right I was afraid to add colouring. I wanted the result to be a richer colour and would love to add a small amount of food colouring but I'm afraid to destroy the whole batch. Insights--anyone?
    I would test the coloring in a control solution to make sure, but I doubt that the small amount of food coloring needed to make a normal juice color would spoil anything. If your coloring is odorless as the concentrate, then that is your answer already, but if it does have a faint odor as concentrate, then dilute some in a cheap(er) solution and see if it is noticeable either in the juice or in the dry down.

    Food colorings are just dyes, at least somewhat like the ones used to attain juice color in commercial fragrances. These dyes tend to be substances with larger molecules that don't vaporize readily.
    * * * *

  36. #36

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    To dilute essential oil blends, use "Everclear"--the hard alcohol only down and out druggies buy--it's odourless, tasteless, and cheap as cheap gets. If "Everclear" is unavailable in your country, vodka works as well.
    QUESTION: does anybody know if using standard grade "food colouring" would disturb the balance of this kind of comp? It took me so long to get this right I was afraid to add colouring. I wanted the result to be a richer colour and would love to add a small amount of food colouring but I'm afraid to destroy the whole batch. Insights--anyone?
    about the first point, make sure the alcohol is at least 80% pure. more water will present you with several serious problems.

    and about your "food colouring" question, i know a semi-pro who does that (with his own perfumes) and it apparently worked out fine. still, try it on a few ml batch first, to make sure that it does not impact the odor in a unexpected way. and be careful about staining you clothes. good luck!
    Last edited by gido; 23rd September 2011 at 04:48 PM.

  37. #37

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Good call: "Everclear" is probably not available as a liquor in many countries, but an equivalent probably would: essentially, it's pretty much 100% pure alcohol. The idea is to use it to spike punch. If you do shooters with it, one "Everclear" = about four shots of vodka--so beware: But they're fun because ONE drop of essential oil, provided it's food grade an not labled toxic (which most are--or lethal--some also are--) Lavender is the easiest--beware of rose because unless you're SURE it's 100% real it could be a disaster and the real is so expensive people don't generally have it: the affordable "real" rose oils aren't all real and are enhanced with other oils, even it was "100% natural" etc. same with jasmine.

  38. #38

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    and water, that's wear the "Aqua Lavanda" comes in: Aqua Lavanda is 80% water--but it's a
    been processed to accept oils: The other 20% is mostly alcohol and stabilizers and that actual "parfum" blend. It makes THE BEST diluting base for almost any comp--as the actual character of it is so fugacious that it just sort of disappears. the 750ml is also 16E/18E!!!!!!! (+/-$24.00US)

  39. #39
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    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    le MdM, I have been following this thread with much interest. I am totally new here on basenotes but have been loving perfumes and other good smelly things for most of my life, since I was about 4 or 5, I guess. I've also liked many smells that aren't so very good at first "glance", eg. the poo poo thing, as I grew up on a farm, and I've always appreciated the a good sniff of a barn full of cows and well, many other things you come across in the country, and elsewhere too, of course! So although I
    appreciate a beautiful perfume, it's usually one that has an "odd?" bit to it. ( Now I do like Opium, however, only in very tiny dabs, I don't care to scare people across the street! ) Anyway, I'm off the subject. Since I've been sampling and learning more about perfumes, I've come to love Jicky very much, I have the vintage stuff, and I'm finding that yes, if a perfume has a vintage formulation, that will be the one I like. So, it will be frightfully expensive - for me anyway, to stock up a bit on 2 or 3 of my favorites in their vintage forms, but that will be what I have to do. I'm so glad to read your thread, that you and hopefully some others here will have a go at making your own versions of the really good stuff! I am not nearly experienced enough to even think of trying, but I am wishing you the best of luck with this project...

  40. #40

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Though there are MANY scents on the market that make copious use of urine notes (Kouros, Yatagan--many others) Jicky is, or was, the ONLY scent to have such on obvious civet note in it--and civet smells worse than canadian barnyard--though i wouldn't know but i assume these smell very like british barnyard, and those i know--the older the juice, the poopier it smells. It was so poopy as late as the 1960's, that "Jicky" was still considered a slightly scandalous choice for a lady, making Jacqueline Kennedy's gesture of making it her signature scent her whole life all the more intriguing. The name "Jicky" is the same as "Jimmy" in english--so if you're name is "Jacqueline" (the feminine for jacques)--& you speak french--it calls you: I often wonder if this was a part of her decision to wear it. I just hauled home my latest batch of jicky edt (new) spray refills and this frank civet note is pretty much gone: Somebody even asked me if I was wearing "Jean Nate" !!!!!!

  41. #41

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    it's no wonder since word on the street indicates that i've taken to wearing "Tabac Original" .......

  42. #42
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    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    I did a thread some time ago on layering Shalimar and Kouros. It was the smell of a long weekend in bed, if that's any help.
    What do insomniac perfumers do to fall asleep? They count chypres!

  43. #43

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    That sounds incredibly exact, July 54, minus the "bleach note." Do many of you readers believe in layering? I don't, and I never have. Lines like Jo Malone that rely on it loose respect in my book because the results of layering are so often mediocre at best. It's taken years for great perfumers to create great perfumes (Jean Kerleo: 12 years to perfect "Sublime") Others have done it with a flippant gesture (The Guerlain Brothers, "dumping" synthetic vanilla into a lab flask of Jicky extract to create shalimar) Still others have fallen upon it by accident (Henri Ameras, "Joy.") What I hope to achieve here is to incite readers to mix their precious juices, after giving it some long hard thought: We're playing with some very expensive ingredients here. It took me weeks to obtain 1000ml of perfectly satisfactory "Jicky" --and in a strength that far outperforms their current "parfum,"-- out of a forgotten 500ml, 15 year old bottle of "Pour un Homme." For the last two I have been trying to turn 500ml of it into "Mouchoir de Monsuieur." I feel equipped to do this, as I am so familiar with both that I know them in their every facet of wear: What they smell like when they go on, and what they smell like on your vest at the end of the day when you get home from work. Interestingly, the gesture that made the magic was a dropper full of serge lutens's "Ambre Sultan." The only thing that calmed the "shit" note out of one pin head dipped in civet and swirled into 1000+ml of juice was an half dropper full of pristine, natural musk-laden "le dix" extract from the 1960's. When I started this, I had only 500ml of "Pour un Homme" to lose, something I wore as a child and would never wear today, and 500ml of Antonio Puig's "Agua Lavanda:" Less expensive than maple sirup: But I struck gold. I now have 500ml of Jicky extract--old school vintage--that out performs anything I can remember, and behaves as it should, and Basically, it cost me nothing. Were I to have bought this, it would have cost thousands of euros, thousands of dollars, and taken 3 to 4 months to obtain. Plus, it would have garnered a "Are you wearing "Jean Nate?"--not something a man wants to hear. Readers: What have you discovered mixing your perfumes--using perfume itself as ingredients--personalizing them--or replicating them? We know that we can no longer rely on our previous means of procurement, e-bay stocks will dry up (60ml of vintage "Jicky" from the 1990's just sold on e-bay for close to 1K, US., and we will be left with "500,000 ways to smell like watermelon." I'm trying to find a way out, so I can feel reasonably confident that my identity will not be at stake: Yes. My identity smells a certain way, and I'm not ashamed of it: I don't feel superficial in the least. Anybody tempted to throw in a veiled insult, please re-read observations above. Rather than "layering" (which, from a molecular standpoint presents inherent problems,) why not let's figure out and launch "blending." We're Basenotes Junkies. We can't smell like anybody else.

  44. #44

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Next up: if I ever get the "Mouchoir de Monsieur" right, a success that has eluded me thus far, (Currently smells more like "Givenchy Gentleman" did in 1976) What will I make out of my 10oz bottle of "Tabac Original?"

  45. #45

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    What is it about perfume that makes us all spend hours and hours thinking about it, discussing it, dissecting it? When I miss cultural references known by all through the media of television and internet, I very often must point out that I do not own a television, and haven't since the mid nineties. Reactions to this declaration vary: Most often, people look perplexed and ask: "well, then, what do you do?" When I ponder on this question, then answer it, which itself boggles my mind, It usually goes this way: "I read quite a lot, I write quite a lot, and I spend a great deal of time smelling perfumes." My response usually raises brows. "Perfumes? what do you mean you spend time smelling perfumes?" "I mean exactly that. I spray perfume on my wrists, and I smell it." "And...that entertains you?" "Yes. It entertains me." "How so?" "Well, while I'm smelling them, I much enjoy thinking about them...about what they mean...how they came to be..." Usually, at that point, people don't know what to think, but my declaration is true. I spend inordinate amounts of time "reading" a perfume: Very often it can take hours. I don't necessarily wear them, as I only ever wear two, yet I have an entire library the only purpose of which is to entertain me. Oftentimes, I mix a perfume with a book: Just now I am re-reading Thomas Mann's "The Magic Mountain." I've found Guerlain's "Apres l'Ondee" to translate perfectly this strange ambiance of aristocrats holed up within the confines of a sanitorium in the beginning of the century: The entire plot of this book, chloriform and the lot, I find reflected in this steely, melancholy, lonely perfume. This lilting, sorry scent of isolation. When recently I re-read Hesse's "the Steppenwolf," I found that Caron's "En Avion," with it's fusty murk, took me straight into the magical theatre, "for madmen only." Mostly, though, I just sit immobile and smell...and I think about all of the people who would have worn the scent, who they were, what they did with their days, what they looked like, why they were fond of it. Interestingly, only old, forgotten perfumes intrigue me: Lately, I've engaged in a fascinating conversation with a BN devotee. Over the course of it, we both learned to intuit what the other fancied in a scent, with a precision that is uncanny: Neither of us have any interest whatsoever in modern comps, but my cohort guessed that I would most likely be a fan of "crepe de chine." I found this astounding. Crepe de Chine. Who has any recollection of Crepe de Chine? I do, as I once had a 30ml flacon of extract I bought in a flea market, and used it to the last drop, at last swabbing out residue with cotton on a stick. Thinking about it recently, I've come to the conclusion that my attachment to perfume is purely historical: This is a novel idea for me. As I am only interested in antiquities to furnish my home, I am also only intrigued by antique fragrances: Just as do decorative arts of eras past, they have a blood line: This is my point. Those of you following this thread, I am loathe to admit that I have made an absolute mess out of 500ml of my ersatz Jicky, trying to turn it into Mouchoir de Monsieur: I went way over the top with the patchouli, and once you OD on these base notes, there's no quick fix. However, I did make something, and I've been wearing it. I don't think I could ever make it again, as I dropped so many things into it that I've lost track, but, miraculously, in this mess has bloomed a perfect perfume for me: Not a day has gone by since I began wearing it that some random hasn't asked me what it was, or told me I smelled good. People who know me have also made comments: "You're wearing a new perfume. I love it. What is it?" It struck me this evening as I pulled off my vest and got a whiff of it that it is indeed perfect: There's nothing about it I don't love. It strikes every single one of the long list of boxes I require checked except one: It's not a masterpiece of great perfumery. It's a hodge-podge of quite literally everything I could think of that might make it better, as I worked on it for hours on end: Very slowly--hours and days must pass between each test. When I wore it the first time, it was out of anger: "Damn!" I thought--"I've made a wank load of nonsense out of 500ml of perfectly good fake jicky." But the morning after...when I sprayed it...it was a magical moment, and all day long, the magic continued. Out of frustration, desperation and anger, was born a juice that fits me to perfection. I would love to say "and I wasn't even trying," but I can't: I was trying very hard, only to make something else. So here's my good news. What I have to say about my 500ml of whatever the hell it is, would be the same that has been said about the promises written on a box of beauty cream: "I don't know what it means, but it's forcing me to believe it." Trite as it sounds, I can only call this perfume "Oz." It looked beautiful from afar. When I got there it was scary, and I thought I was trapped: Without even knowing it, in a dream I clicked my heels, and woke up to spray it on me in anger: From flight to base, it's own private message...the one it speaks only to me...is "There's no place like home," and wherever I am, if I've got it on, I'm there.

  46. #46

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    and I spend a great deal of time smelling perfumes." My response usually raises brows. "Perfumes? what do you mean you spend time smelling perfumes?" "I mean exactly that. I spray perfume on my wrists, and I smell it." "And...that entertains you?" "Yes. It entertains me." "How so?" "Well, while I'm smelling them, I much enjoy thinking about them...about what they mean...how they came to be..." Usually, at that point, people don't know what to think, but my declaration is true.
    That is mostly because people have no dreams and no imagination (!)... so much why there is so much individual sorrow and suffering!

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    When recently I re-read Hesse's "the Steppenwolf," I found that Caron's "En Avion," with it's fusty murk, took me straight into the magical theatre, "for madmen only."
    Hey fellow madmen! How do you intend to survive in this crazy world?

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    It's not a masterpiece of great perfumery.
    Out of frustration, desperation and anger, was born a juice that fits me to perfection."I don't know what it means, but it's forcing me to believe it."
    Trite as it sounds, I can only call this perfume "Oz." It looked beautiful from afar. When I got there it was scary, and I thought I was trapped.
    Sounds perfect for you! How about your own perfumes labelling them 'le MdM's revenge'?

  47. #47

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    sorry! wrong thread. Carry on monsieur!!!

  48. #48

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Very well, Mademoiselle Cello, I will: I think I've cracked the nut with regard to why all of these new perfumes flooding the market daily are such radically different animals than those of times past, both in thrashing together my fake batch of Jicky, then making the never again to be reformulated "Oz," and now tumbling over and falling in to a dabber swab of perfectly preserved "crepe de chine" extract from the 50's: It's natural ambregris. Now, those of you who are ready to pounce on me with your whale discussions, do please be patient. It is my understanding that, even at the very height of usage, ambregris was a bi-product of whales: Something that was collected in the seas where whales converged, not extracted forcefully from them. In France, I have heard it called "whale sperm." (Anybody who knows the truth about ambregris is welcome to jump in at this point, provided they can control themselves) These ejaculates, per my gatherings, hardened in the cold ocean waters and became a kind of floating blob, very much like wax, which was collected and processed into a sort of oil: No whales were captured and had their testicles hacked off and emptied in order to obtain this precious substance: As God made all things perfect, it just so happens that male whales are quite enthusiastic wankers, blessed with the highly coveted status of "heavy shooter," being also fluently bi-sexual by nature, It stands to reason that there would be quite a bit of their spluge floating about in waters where they live. All of this sperm, which coagulated and became hard like wax, floated atop the waters and was highly prized for many things: It was hard and grey, thus the term "Ambregris," or "Grey Amber." Ambregris has only a faint odour; it was before all else a kind of fixative for perfumery, a base into which the different essential oils were dropped to create the olfactive composition. When ambregris became illegal, there really wasn't anything that was created to replace it, nothing at least as effective, and so this is why perfumes made without ambregris lack depth, and those that are have a kind of all enveloping presence that mesmerizes the senses. This is, after all, a musk. I have, or rather, I had, a very large laboratory decant of ambregris, and found that it "fixed" my recent kitchen re-makes/creations beautifully, whilst leaving their scents intact, lending only a kind of creamy deliciousness that previously they lacked: I am smelling this in the "Crepe de Chine" with which i have just slapped the veins of my wrist: Crepe de Chine is a green chypre, a very soft and inviting scent, somewhere between vintage vol de nuit, minus the harsh, butch quality, and caline, minus the patou crisp gin fizz signature brightness. Clearly, it is loaded with ambregris. If you whiff ambregris on its own it smells faintly dirty, but not in the least unpleasant. Synthetic ambregris, though, has a very distinctly musky aroma, but not a hint of the poopiness of civet. What the synthetic will do is add a powdery musk note to the comp. What it won't do is make the comp last: Thus the difference between any fragrance made with it, or without it. My 1000ml of home brew lasts twelve hours: Thank goodness I'm pleased with the result because in it went a whole lot of precious ingredients, notably my large lab decant of ambregris. The point of this, all of you readers must by now be asking? Only this: If you lament about how modern comps have turned to coconut water, it's not entirely due to the fact that they're all just about spending the least on their ingredients and charging the most to their consumers: Mostly, it because there are no fixatives that can be legally used that rival the great and original that was the base of each and every one of our greats: Good old Whale Sperm. Next up? Lonely boys out there who are chemically inclined: anybody interested in toying around with our pyrex tubes, distillers and bunson burners to come up with something? After all, nobody can deny the fact that, in the human world, there's a terrific lot of sperm going to waste! Could we be on to something?

  49. #49

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Oh, CRUMBS!!!!!! I was so very much more entranced by the idea that Ambregris was whale sperm. As it turns out, it's whale sick!
    Lonely boys, there's no hope....back to listening to the Smiths......

  50. #50

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    You crack me up... lol! You thought you could rescue the lonely boys for a good cause... STOP, Larimar! I'll swallow my last thought...

  51. #51

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Monsieur! I read through that whole post expecting the obvious - a monsieur sperm Jicky concoction! Only, now, to find out that your next experiment will be monsieur vomit and Jicky. Somehow, it loses its appeal

  52. #52

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    YOU were disappointed?!? I thought I had discovered the latest in "Green" technology!!!!! I highly doubt there will be any "Monsieur" concoctions involving sick!!!!! -- especially since "Monsieur sick" is usually 98% vodka....and most often discretely deposited into some sordid biker bar toilet!!!!! Oh well! Those whales, though! All the qualities! naturally randy, inherently and guiltlessly bi-sexual, heavy shooters, and their sick produces a precious substance that is worth its weight in gold! No wonder everyone loves them! --same with dolphins-- (which are a kind of whale, I believe) -- We all should take lessons from them: Rather than teaching them how to do tricks to entertain children in water parks, we humans should be signing up for "Whale Morals, 101," so they could teach us some of their tricks! Don't you think we'd all have more fun?

  53. #53

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    PS: Larimar, as long as your thoughts are the only thing you're unexpectedly swallowing, I think you'll be fine! ALSO: Readers, take note. Larimar is a Prince: We all should rally to have him elected into Basenotes Royal Ranks....Right up there with all the usual suspects! (MDM is not a name dropper, so all of you, fill in your own blanks!)

  54. #54

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    Oh, CRUMBS!!!!!! I was so very much more entranced by the idea that Ambregris was whale sperm. As it turns out, it's whale sick!
    Lonely boys, there's no hope....back to listening to the Smiths......
    Good lord Monsieur! Sperm whale spunk?!
    Might I recommend "Bigmouth": my fave Smiths track?
    Last edited by Sorcery of Scent; 30th September 2011 at 07:14 PM.

  55. #55

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    ......"I was looking for a job, and then I found a job, and heaven knows, I'm miserable now"........

  56. #56

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Here's the latest. I know for a fact that several BN cohorts of mine were fanning themselves and wondering whatever could possibly have come over me when, upon returning from Europe last July I proclaimed the usage of dirt cheap "Tabac Orginal," made in Germany and still packaged in its 60's inspired milk glass amphora shaped screw-top bottle acceptable behaviour: Details on which epiphany may be seen on my review in Fragrance Directory. Needless to say, I did not wear it to the opening of the opera and the ball that ensued, but I did wear a cranberry red tux with white tie. This went over famously: Thank God I found the cranberry patent leather Kenzo shoes, and lost the "Tabac Original." The story I recount in the review is indeed true, though I must admit that the brew does not fare quite as well on clean skin, and, at best, just smells "polite." Home now with my gigantic duty free 16 Euro bottle and claw foot tub at hand, I decided to play around with it. Clearly, there must be something to this comp as it does remain a top seller across the world, and, like Khiel's products, seems to be made of quality ingredients without much fuss and virtually no fanfare. It has good tenacity and surprising sillage for an humble juice that rings in at one Euro per ounce. It just happens to be somewhat insipid, minus four days of sebacious skank to bump it up. Previously, we have discussed how Puig's "Aqua Lavanda" makes a good base in which to mix essential oils, and it did indeed work flawlessly for my experiments with Caron's "Pour un Homme," detailed above. It should be obvious to all and sundry by this point that on a day to day basis I require a powdery lavender scent, but there are other days when I crave something frankly naughty: A sex scent. My secret devil phyltre had for some time been "Khiel's Original Musk" (see my review for lurid details) though lately I have found that, for instance, on a sweaty dance floor, it does "embalm," as the French say, in an indolic haze of roses and jasmine that somehow harkens "Joy," or le Galion's "Snob." This mega-floral aspect is now more noticeable than in days past since the advent of designated smoking lounges where revelers can now peacefully inhale their favourite substances. Previously, the most suitable place to take a quick hit would be the dance floor proper. Now, things have become more civilized and dance floors are no longer immersed in clouds of various sorts of illegal and rank smelling smoke, making a nuclear strength rose-jasmine statement somehow too fey for a man; even a red tux-wearing one like me. I noticed this pernicious detail last Friday night whilst cutting a rug for an impressive three straight hours: Thank goodness people were bringing me cocktails. In my delirium, I could almost not connect with the non-being of dance for smelling roses. (KOM actually does better after about ten hours, so the secret is to spray it in the morning to leave a trail of corpses after dark) Thinking about the smell of a crowded dance floor I could conjure only foul associations: Beer. Sweat....many a time I have wished that someone would strike up a joss stick well before the real fun starts, and it no longer matters. The question was, then, what would smell good on a dance floor? Completely exhausted by my recent chemical experiments, and feeling somewhat bitter about having blown through a monstrous amount of essential oils to make "Oz," many of which I'm sure I could not replace, I flippantly toyed around with my "Tabac Original." After all, dance floors are supposed to smell like "tabac," yet we've all witnessed what "the War Against Fun" has done to that, leaving behind only fond memories and the smell of industrial disinfectant. I did a bit of research about what both women and men find arousing in the olfactory realms and came up with some surprising data: Lavender? Who knew. Vanilla? Hmmmm: Maybe I shouldn't have blown that 500ml of "Pour un Homme" to smithereens. Then I thought: "What do I find arousing?" and, immediately, it came to me: Black Pepper, Clove and cinnamon. Coincidentally, all three of these come in amber lab flasks with skulls and cross bones on them. Interesting: I felt like a green witch lining them up, and while doing so I could not help myself but to whisper "poppies......" I know I'd always longed for a "black pepper-lavender" comp and had even at one point begged the Jo Malone people to make one, so naturally I started with English lavender oil, so much dryer than the French: For me, there is no fragrance without lavender. Into 16 ounces of "Tabac Original" I dropped 15ml of pure English lavender oil, 20 drops of black pepper oil, 5 drops of clove oil, and two drops of cinnamon oil. I did this in a very nonchalant way, without thinking, just as the Guerlain Brothers did with their synthetic vanilla: "To see what it would give." As it stands, I'm not entirely sure I love the result, but it does smell terribly sexy. It seems to want a bit of rose, or something sweet, perhaps some vanilla, but thus far I've refrained: I need to test this out with about five straight hours of frenetic dancing which, if all goes well, should happen tomorrow night: Stay tuned.

  57. #57

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    I was pissed to the gills when, rather than dance to the Death Guild mash up of swirling goth and tribal drum fests, I was victim to an unexpected and last minute change of venue. Instead of Siouxsie and Peter I got Gaga and Kylie. Out I bounced, Jean Paul Gauthier and all, ready to bust it up to some semi-violent "Death Metal," (there's a back VIP area where the music gets seriously weird) and find myself suffering through "Bad Romance." I had it all meticulously planned out, and doused myself, twice for good measure, in "Tabac Original" laced with real, live poison. When on my way to Death Guild I received the text about how we were all meeting up at some random venue I'd never heard of, I was livid: I like to get to dance parties early and claim my real estate. Interestingly, as soon as I read it, in the taxi, all I could smell was black pepper: It was as if someone had just sprinkled finely ground in the air--it hit me suddenly. I whiffed my wrists, which, quite honestly, didn't smell like black pepper. Somehow, a cloud had isolated itself and erupted from somewhere on my body. When I got there, a gigantic maze like club with an enormous neon cow suspended in mid air, I was desperate for a hard shot before seeing anyone, so I went straight to the bar. How ever do you face Lady Gaga sober? I ordered a shot of grey goose straight up and the bartendress poured me four, saying "two for you, two for me," and down they went. The bartendress was a tough looking chick, though she had good energy and a lovely smile and she had just given me a shot on the house: The heat that ran up and down my whole body in between the first and the second produced the same strange burst of pepper. Emboldened by the generous welcome and an eye lock with the Bartendress, I just asked her: Holding out both of my wrists, I said: "Smell this. What do you think?" Nice! What is it? "I'm not sure," I said. "I think I grabbed the wrong bottle. What's it smell like to you?" It smells like hot guy. --better than 'are you wearing Jean Nate?', you will all admit. "Really, now!" Yeah! Really spicy. Here let us have another whiff. "Sure--here--go in here." I leaned in over the bar and pulled the neck of my shirt out. Mmmmmm. "Does it smell like black pepper to you?" Little bit, yeah. It's nice though. "I'm sure I sprayed the wrong bottle. I have no idea what this is." Whatever it is, I like it! "Ok, may I offer you another shot?" You got it, babe! "Here's to that!" Down the hatch then lost in pulsating beats and on my own: No friends in sight. This is why I don't go to random clubs. What's the point when your crowd isn't there? Finally, one of my mates came running up and dragged me onto the dance floor. What's that smell? "You mean the beer and sweat?" No! It's you. You smell like pepper! What is that? "I was just discussing this with the Bartendress. I think I grabbed the wrong bottle!" It smells like that ointment they use at the dentist's office. "Great." Three shots of vodka on an empty stomach full of red bull and, somehow, I didn't care. I must have known ten people in that club. Of the ten, four said something, and it wasn't "You smell good!" it was more "You smell like pepper." None of this made sense to me, nor did I care: I was dancing to Lady Gaga. It really doesn't get more tiresome, at least by my take on the question. She wanted my poison, she wanted my disease: Looks like she got it. Note to self: be careful with essence of black pepper. As previously stated: Build from the ground up. The base notes can ruin everything. This morning I put a dropper full of synthetic rose-jasmine absolute into the mix, thinking maybe it would tame the pepper spray quotient: Now it just smells exactly like "drole de rose."

  58. #58

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Love your story, MdM! Maybe the tough looking bar chick was kinda biased, eh? Our peppery hot, MdM...Ooh la la!

  59. #59

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Here's a new one. --very new for me, since personally I have never been quite able to handle any Caron scent, save for Pour un Homme: Someone out there has sent me a vial of "En Avion" extract, a small amount, but those familiar with any Caron extract will know, when they say "extract," they mean it. Thus far I have been unwilling to fuss with Jicky parfum. It is what I wear on a daily basis and, reformulation or not, I am not ready, nor will I ever be, to have another signature scent. My 500+ ml of fake Jicky is all well and good, but it is what I would call an eau de parfum: Currently, I'm using it only to scent my handkerchiefs, pocket squares (when they are batiste or linen) and jacket linings, which I systematically have replaced with shirting cotton. This has been working out splendidly. Last night, I got a wild hare and summarily dumped my small vial of "En Avion" extract into a flacon of Jicky parfum, 90% full: An easy recipe: into, perhaps 25ml of Jicky parfum, 5ml of "En Avion" extract. Jicky lovers devastated by the current "Lemon Pledge" incarnation, here's your fix. The result is spectacular. Not only is longevity increased, but the darker, sexier side of Jicky is refurbished immediately. Though it may sound like sacrilege to some, this tiny intervention maintains, and heightens all of the qualities we've lost in the recent batches. The dark amber colour of "En Avion" extract does indeed change the chromatic "pale lemon" tone of the juice, but in so doing also gives it a kind of perfectly executed face lift. It's still unmistakably Jicky, only better, proving the point that mere drops of "Grande Dame" mixed in to a whole lot of "Cocotte" make for a perfect re-incarnation of our eternally lost masterpiece. It's the new "mixed race baby," --all the rage in Europe. As far as the much discussed reformulations of Caron are concerned, Richard Fraysse is a master perfumer, descended from three generations of legendary noses. Guerlain should be as lucky to have an artist of his caliber working on their side, though I'm sure they themselves would never agree.

  60. #60

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    As far as the much discussed reformulations of Caron are concerned, Richard Fraysse is a master perfumer, descended from three generations of legendary noses. Guerlain should be as lucky to have an artist of his caliber working on their side, though I'm sure they themselves would never agree.
    YEP!

    I want some En Jicky!!! IMMEDIATELY!!!

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