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  1. #1

    Default Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    I am at a turning point in my acceptance of Guerlain's slow demise. My latest 1000ml bee bottle of Mouchoir de Monsieur contains a pale juice that is but a shadow of its former self, with longevity similar to "Eau du Coq," and the new Jicky Eau de Toilette sprays are, at best, fey and characterless: They almost smell like Jean Nate body splash. The newly packaged Jicky parfum, in its champagne coloured box, has gone high pitched and sweet, and lost a good deal of its signature civet from flight to base. Recently, and quite by accident, I found that mixing 60% jicky (current) parfum and 40% (current Mouchoir de Monsieur) makes a juice very similar to the Jicky edt we all remember and love. This was not layering: this was "I mixed up my atomizers and filled my Jicky Parfum one with Mouchoir." The Guerlain brothers made shalimar by dumping the freshly invented synthetic vanilla into Jicky extract just to see "what it would give." Does anyone have any clever home-mix solutions to help counteract the demise of Guerlain, which, since the unfortunate departure of Monsieur Guerlain, a shameless maneuver on the part of Guerlain, is clearly underway and presents nothing but mediocrity apparent on the horizon, judging from the newbie's comps, which are all quite common by my take, some outright offensive, and the train wrecks of wan nothingness the classics have become in their current incarnations? Here's another experiment I did, simply because I was brave: I took a full 30ml Jicky parfum, current formulation, and, with a pipette, introduced one musk laden, skanky drop of vintage "le dix" extract in it from the 60's that had been perfectly preserved, glass-stopper sealed, and still wrapped up in its "papier griffe:" Though this made the entire 30+ ml that resulted noticeably different, the results were pleasant, and intriguing enough to wear, effectively bringing back some of the funk and weirdness that we Jicky lovers crave, though not for as much replicating actual vintage Jicky. Has anyone toyed around with this? Those of us who have worn these scents for years, made signatures of them, are all left out in the cold: Guerlain clearly does not care about their classic ranges, and no amount of pretty bottle/tight distribution is worth an edt with next to no staying power or a parfum that's meant "to smell like feet" and now smells more like lemon pledge or baby wipes: At those prices, why can a house like Comme des Garcons make a masterpiece that lasts ten hours under current regulations, while Guerlain SA's sit and yammer on about their woes and heartbreaks concerning the DNA of their brand and how it's being ignored, even insulted, by its current power players? If Bernard Arnault could confidently appoint the likes of Marc Jacobs to step into the shoes of John Galliano himself, one of the last great living couturiers, and think that's not sacrilege to the House of Dior, imagine what we have in store for minimal money makers like Guerlain? Thoughts? Anyone?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Mouchoir, that critique was hilarious.

    As the folks of Guerlain do browse this forum, hopefully they can pick up the pulse from the perfume-loving community who buy their products. I am still really peeved at the hideous new design for Derby--that monstrosity they use to bottle the Arsene Lupin scents. (This is the one like the Odori bottle--rectangular wooden.)

    (Granted that Derby went from the cockroach carapace design to the elegant bee bottle, but why that minimalist box of a contraption?)

    As a buyer of the 1000ml of Mouchoir de Monsieur, you have some amount of consumer clout, and I would suggest you direct your observations and concerns to the boutiques, which have connections with corporate.
    "No elegance is possible without it...perfume is a part of you." Gabrielle "Coco" Chanel

  3. #3

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Yes, that would be the obvious route: But I don't need to speak to anyone in the Guerlain boutiques, since I myself have connections to their corporate structures, and speak regularly to them: I have ordered countless bottles: liters and liters of scent--I have so many empty 1000ml bee bottles that some of them are ground glass stoppered: That's how long I've been at this. Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur have been my signature scents since I was a teenager. There is no hope. All they can say is "regulations.....regulations......" and of course they won't discuss their hideous behaviour toward Monsieur Guerlain: They will however harp on endlessly about the newbie: From the get go, an upstart in my book, which is of no importance whatsoever, yet this status seems proven by his "creations" which, unless one seeks to smell like a monstrous pink japanese hello kitty cupcake, are all unwearable if one is a purist, hardcore Guerlain devotee, which I have been for over 25 years, and my family has been for well over one hundred years. Guerlain SA's now moan and winge about these regulations. What else to do? But, examine some of the niche comps: Serge Lutens, Comme des Garcons: How are they doing it? A vapo of the exquisite Comme des Garcons "Carnation" contains about 100ml of juice, costing ariund 60E, +/-$85.00US, that makes a guerlain extract look and behave like Jean Marie Farina or 4711. When you consider that 100ml of Jicky parfum, or any Guerlain parfum, rings in at around $1000.00US, how can any of us compute that, unlimited means or not? My question/the topic of this thread is not designed to ring bells at Guerlain: They love what they're doing, and, for us, things will only get worse: Believe you me, as does it not appear that they care for nothing we random users have to say, unless of course we're part of their marketing research team, whose observations breed every single one of their new intros into the market? When you consider that Monsieur Jacques Guerlain had only this to say to the press when he was still alive: "Sometimes, I feel so hard, I can only express myself in a fragrance," and that recently, the newbie went on the BBC and flippantly dismissed Monsieur Jean paul Guerlain himself, recently fired over the much discussed "affaire negre*," calling him, and I quote: "Just an old lion" (sic) who..."Should be regarded as such: an old lion" I'm afraid you've got the fall of Rome re-enacting itself in full gore and fire at number 68 Champs Elysees: What else does that look like to you? (*many french use the saying "travailler comme un negre" quite fluently. They also stood by passively in the streets of paris in the 90's watching while their unbridled "Front National" whipped themselves into a frenzy of hatred carrying signs and chanting "Death to Jews!" Meantime, John Galliano, the last person on earth who could be considered racist or anti-semite, being an outsider himself, was summarily fired at Dior and will now be publicly tried for anti-semitism, which is illegal in France, for having had a rough night, poured down a few too many, then very obviously swallowed the wrong pill, then later being accosted by a couple on the terrace of a popular cafe who thought he was homeless. Just a little background info....)
    Last edited by le mouchoir de monsieur; 11th September 2011 at 07:07 PM.

  4. #4
    hednic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    I guess that means you're not happy in the direction that Guerlain has been heading of late. A powerful indictment.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    "Not Happy" doesn't cover it. I need pharmaceuticals to deal with this: It is as if my own identity were being destroyed before my very eyes. How could anyone who has grown up in Guerlain be happy with their current state of affairs? above, I write that I've been wearing Guerlain religiously for 25 years: I lied. It's been more like 35 years: I would love to know the number of Jicky soaps i've melted--the quantities of bath oil--hair-tonic--hair spray--powder--perfume (all of this was made and available in my lifetime)--eau de cologne (I've always used "Eau du Coq" and as a child this was used for sponge bathing, and as a remedy for headaches, general malaise as well as mosquito repellent: still effective for all these applications) Whatever it is that I am, it's beyond not being happy. I feel violated. raped. I've decided that I will no longer continue with Guerlain, I, who for years and years, said, and believed, "Once you've used Guerlain, you can't use anything else." Now I'm saying: "If you use Guerlain, you'd better start using something else." My quest: What, and how?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    If one is that well connected with corporate, I think you are honour-bound to tell them the truth--for the sake of the rest of us.
    "No elegance is possible without it...perfume is a part of you." Gabrielle "Coco" Chanel

  7. #7

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    I have to agree that the longevity of the current Jicky parfum is absolutely abysmal.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Strong statement, Monsieur! I fear I have nothing valueable to add, but your point is very valid. Jicky in its current state is so inoffensive that it is utterly boring. We are in for more surprises with new batches of extraits of their classics, we also know that...
    Turn to Caron and support the LAST existing house that still produces old-world haute parfumerie style fragrances! If this is gone, French perfumery is dead! You know that I feel strongly about this...

  9. #9

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Quote Originally Posted by Larimar View Post
    Strong statement, Monsieur! I fear I have nothing valueable to add, but your point is very valid. Jicky in its current state is so inoffensive that it is utterly boring. We are in for more surprises with new batches of extraits of their classics, we also know that...
    Turn to Caron and support the LAST existing house that still produces old-world haute parfumerie style fragrances! If this is gone, French perfumery is dead! You know that I feel strongly about this...
    I tried Caron's Narcisse Noire extrait (thanks to a kind BNer) and it has a marvelous civety note.
    "No elegance is possible without it...perfume is a part of you." Gabrielle "Coco" Chanel

  10. #10

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Enjoyed your post. My beloved Mitsouko is now something like a candy I can't identify. I can't believe the beauty I discovered at 17 back in 1972 has been so reduced to this .

  11. #11

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    I think you should go vintage and not only Guerlain as I appreciate the price. I wonder have you tried Lanvin's Scandal or Coty's L'Origin , Scherrer , Marc Sinan ? I am no great nose so can't say that any match the beauty of Guerlains. They can be bought for a reasonable price .You might try Etsy as one seller often has tulip bottles of vintage at a good price.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Quote Originally Posted by Larimar View Post
    Strong statement, Monsieur! I fear I have nothing valueable to add, but your point is very valid. Jicky in its current state is so inoffensive that it is utterly boring. We are in for more surprises with new batches of extraits of their classics, we also know that...
    Turn to Caron and support the LAST existing house that still produces old-world haute parfumerie style fragrances! If this is gone, French perfumery is dead! You know that I feel strongly about this...
    I agree about Caron , I especially love Violette Precieuse which I have to find on eBay .

  13. #13

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Yet Luca Turin dismisses the Carons has shadows of what they once where. I still adore my Carons. Guerlain I am lucky I have stored away the Pdt and parfum of Jicky from the late 90s early 00s and two bottles of the older MdM which still has its kick ass civet vibe.

    I blame LVHM for jumping on command to change and removed ingredients as instructed. The ink has not dried on the paper for the new regulations and they immediately rushed to obey. Of course the well it might be cheaper to produce the new ingredients and save money has nothing to do with it.
    DONNA

  14. #14

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Sounds interesting, though, taking layering to new frontiers
    Currently wearing: Lancetti Uomo by Lancetti

  15. #15

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    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    As a newbie, I cannot compare the current formulas to the glories of the past, but I often find myself underwhelmed when I smell things. Almost serendipitously, I happened to spray Jicky perfume from a tester yesterday, and I see your point. It's still pleasant, but I wondered, what was all the fuss about the civet? Chamade and Vol de nuit parfums, whether changed or not, still smell good and exciting to me. Perhaps I should jump and buy before they are further debased.

    Narcisse Noir keeps coming back... The EDT is clearly unsatisfactory, and corresponds to LT's description. Perhaps I should jump too and buy the extrait to check.

    cacio

  16. #16

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    This is what I can surmise about what's going on at Guerlain. First of all, way back when LVMH bought guerlain from the Guerlain brothers, I worked for and reported to a very important individual in the fragrance world in Paris. His first words when the deal went through ran thus: "That'll be the end of that." Of course, it took years, but now we face the undeniable prediction coming true.
    I don't think it's "the money" that is making them follow these new restrictions, which have destroyed their entire library, I think it's lack of interest in their classics, save for shalimar which essentially keeps them in business, along with their skin care, cosmetics and fashion related sku's like lipstick: Recently, they introduced one of the best lipsticks on the market, "Rouge Automatique," with a packaging idea they bill "revolutionary" (one hand application, no lid) that is nothing more or less than a rip off of Jean Patou's invention, "le lift," which was introduced in the 1930's. These items make them a tremendous amount of money. What's not making them money are things like Jicky and other classics that, despite their exorbitant cost to buy, cost them more just to keep them available. This is why some classics, like "apres l'ondee," just come in that small bee bottle spray of edt. The regulations are a headache/bank drain for them, as they must reformulate everything to accommodate them. My main source of frustration is that, in their reformualtions, they've slapped together the classics, and laboured endlessly on the newbie's comps--which interestingly, are now like "stains" and will not fade: Those tall rectangular bottled comps are indelible--like "cuir beluga"--and that unmentionably nauseating "Insolence" is equally tenacious. Spray some like-strength classic, and it's gone in 25 minutes. Note also they have discontinued the signature boxes for all classics--the forrest green Jicky parfum box is now just a white carton--the zebra velvet of "vol de nuit" now just a strip of printed paper glued onto the same white box: Gone, the persian violet velvet of shalimar. Sticking to fragrance, Guerlain cares only for their new comps: the rest, they're merely bothered with. Remember: Some synthetic ingredients are better and more expensive than the natural ones they try to replicate. Guerlain also pioneered the usage of preservatives and embraced synthetics before any other house of importance: Thus the birth of Shalimar, with "Vaniline" Thus the birth of Jicky, with "Coumarine." It's not money: It's lack of interest and a fading/dying market. For every 100 devotees of "L'heure bleue" there are 100,000 waiting in line for "My Insolence." Among the 100 devotees of "L'heure bleue," more than half are over 70 years old, and soon, they will be dead: We will never solve, nor will we change the demise of Guerlain. We simply must face it. My hope was that those of us who are "Guerlain to the bone" would find a way to maintain our fragrant identity without ever having to step inside 68 Champs Elysees, because they are engineering a kind of plot that makes us pariahs and unwanted clients: Let them have all those japanese girls with their hot pink polk-a-dot tights: For that which concerns me, my very "Mouchoir" is screaming for some other brand of "Monsieur." Caron: Yes, Larimar--I agree--but don't let's get addicted to that, because that will simply be a "shut down" or a "re-buy"--most likely the former. Caron is not for everyone. It takes guts to wear those: another kind of guts than are required for something like "Mitsouko" or "Vol de Nuit." Some have them, others don't. In answer to your (private) question: So what if I'm pouring "Tabac Original" all over me? at 16E for 10oz--I can--and, personally, I don't think it smells like a German tourist: That's more......"Eau de Cologne 4711 + no deodorant + no bathing + walking around for days in the heat with a back pack on, full of dirty socks" ..... Devotees of Jicky: the best I can get thus far is made of Jicky--(30ml parfum, one drop vintage "le dix" extract)--*thank you: You know who you are!*-- Another one, again, made of Guerlain: Dousing in Mouchoir de Monsieur Edt (current) and "dabbing" Comme des Garcons "Carnation" on pulse points. Here's my beef: if you "layer," using your wrist as a springboard, spraying CdG carnation as a base, with one blast of MdM, it's divine--but in 20 minutes, all that is apparent is "Carnation," and Mouchoir de Monsieur has fainted and wilted and retired to his boudoir, clearly terminal, coughing up blood and grasping for his tattered "Rousseau" volumes. I think if we can all figure this out we can "make" Guerlains, as we remember them: an imaginary sketch: to get "Jicky," take a whole bottle of "Fantastic Man," and mix in just two drops of "Muscs Kublai-Kahn" by SL: Both of these are available, neither are Guerlain, and with the sillage/potency of both, I'd bet the end result would equal 90ml of erzats Jicky parfum. Guerlainistas: Either spend yourself homeless on e-bay for vintage, which by the way will not provide a lifetime of indulgence, or move on. Since "Common" is the new "Extraordinary," I rather like my Tabac Original--and by the way, L, everyone else seems to as well!

  17. #17
    Frag Bomb Squadron XIII
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    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    I applaud you for doing whatever's necessary to save your perfume identity from extinction even if it means grafting on what may be considered a foreign entity.

    I'm not a fan of Marc Jacobs fragrances so I'm not thrilled with his appointment at Dior. And I wonder how does Wasser's report card look like after another year at Guerlain?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    In my own opinion, which means nothing, It took only one sentence out of the newbie's mouth to earn an American School "F," a French School "0/20." If John Galliano, who, on top of being one of the last great couturiers the world will ever see, can be dismissed summarily by Dior, S.A, and then, not to be outdone, allowed to be publicly dragged through the mire of the French court system for defending himself on the terrace of a French cafe after swallowing the wrong pill with a few drinks after a hard day's work, then I would say the newbie should be happy with his "F" / 0/20: He still has his job, and is confident enough in it to declare to the world with a smirk of disgust that "Jean Paul Guerlain is (nothing but) an old lion." If Bernard Arnault is issuing his report card--I'm sure he's come in with flying colours. If an american club kid, now middle aged, apparently pumped full of chemicals and money can now reign at the house of Dior, why could some random newbie who had an in not call the shots at Guerlain? All of this makes sublime business sense: In the future, powerful consumers will care nothing for innovation nor will they give a fig about art: They will care only for what Beyonce or Keith Urban have to say about looking and smelling great. Marc Jacobs is the perfect choice for this new era of brain drain technology. The newbie at Guerlain--same: A perfect choice to keep Guerlain alive. The future smells like that hot pink cupcake, NOT the Catleya on Odette de Bricassart's Worth taffetas ball gown. So: Let them prosper. The empires of luxury care only for money coming in, and they will do anything that is required for that to continue. Paris, other European capitols, even America, have no shortage of visionary poets pounding the sidewalks, starving, picking up pins, living in squalid, cramped studios: Apparently none get through the door at the Guerlains--the Diors--the Louis Vuittons--because consumers, and by that I don't mean us, (I mean the innocent walk in at a department store/duty free) are the fuel that keeps these houses afloat: Without a marc jacobs sprawled out all greased up, naked, pumped fullof spray tan with an ugly bottle on his crotch, they're just not interested. If the latest Guerlain doesn't smell like chocolate chip cookies baking, they'll simply whiff and say: "smells like my grandmother." Seriously: For us, independence is where it's at. We can't be followers, people. We just can't.
    Last edited by le mouchoir de monsieur; 11th September 2011 at 06:54 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    We can't slander, either. What we can do, is collectively figure out how to survive in a world that simply will no longer be producing our souls as olfactory assertion. My discussion here is not meant to be a winge-fest about how everything is going down, as there are far too many of these already in progress. My discussion here seeks to trouble shoot on how we can create our own--be they copies of our deceased greats or our own versions of them--or, better still, a perfect illustration of one's identity, as "Jicky" happens to be with me. Jicky has my name on it, literally. That's how I found it as a child: Ask any "Charlie" about how this pans out.

    Hopefully, our discussion will go this way:

    "I'm just sort of completely enthralled with Dr. Harris's "Whatever," and I think it might be a PERFECT base for a Jicky comp. I'm now testing out its tenacity--One drop of "le dix" in this full bottle--I'm near sure--is just going to be me."

    or:

    "Ugh!!!!! I just shot a full liter of Mouchoir de Monsieur" to hell by putting just ONE DROP of civet in it--that's one drop in 1000ml--and now it just smells like dirty arse."

    hopefully not:

    "So and so is wanker"

    or

    "Why are they such wankers?"

    SO: How about let's give that a whirl? Chemists, to arms! You need: screw top bottles of fragrance, or stoppered ones. To decant a vapo, spray it out into a measuring cup and pour it into a clean empty screw cap or glass stopper. Lots of pipettes. Wash perfume things in "EVERCLEAR" alcohol--available at cheap liquor stores near you--NOT isopropyl. A bunch of empty screw top pyrex bottles (they sell them in head shops) and a desire to blend your own soul--you yourself--not some "House." My first bit of advice if you have any, Be careful with civet.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    So, while it's still with us, do support Caron! Douse yourself with Pour Un Homme! It is much more classy than Tabac... I am sure... okay, I admit I haven't tried it, but the sheer thought....
    But yes, I agree with you very much, unfortunately! Your prospect, I fear, is spot-on... a pink candy future is lying ahead...

  21. #21

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    OK, L: How about this: I have an unopened bottle of "Pour un Homme" from the 90's: 500ml. What can I drop in to it to make it less "18 year old French Boy" and more "46 year old aging rock star?" suggestions??????

  22. #22

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    .....I meant: "46 Year Old Aging Rock Star Royalty"

  23. #23

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    ...and furthermore, I did have to be amused when I examined the box of "Tabac Original" and found that it's made in Germany!!!!! "Volkswagon. The Fragrance." Of course many will have not smelled it, least of all those divas among us, of whom I am one, who have grown up eyeing it suspiciously: It doesn't smell like anything. In fact, I would revise my comment above as: "Audi. The Fragrance." It just smells good. When it starts smelling cheap, which it does, the "kind" of cheap that comes forth is a forgotten, foreign one: Not modern watermelon cheap. There's another one: I have 10oz of this--should I drop in "Rose de Nuit" and then see if I can then actually wear my rose de nuit? because that bell jar has been in its box since 1993--but quite honestly: isn't the worst insult you can give to a perfume the act of not wearing it?

  24. #24

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    I think the last of the Crown Perfumery line were bought out by a German firm.

    Anglo-sounding names made in Germany. Heck, I think Aramis is made in Switzerland.
    "No elegance is possible without it...perfume is a part of you." Gabrielle "Coco" Chanel

  25. #25

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    le MdM, I fear Rose de Nuit will stain anything you bring it in contact with...
    Maybe Your Rock Star Royalty will want to play around with Your vintage Shalimar?

  26. #26

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Interestingly, I have toyed around with this gargantuan amount of vintage shalimar that I have. I don't know what else to do with it: It's the well that will never go dry. It's fascinating how potent it is: Just a few drops will turn almost anything into Shalimar eau de....something....depending on how much you put in: I ruined 1/3 of my bee bottle of "attrape coeur" like this--attrape-coeur is a weird scent: I don't know why they can't ever produce it again, but they cant. At any rate it smells exactly like a cake of verbena savon de marseille, with a lemon twist, and it lasts forever. This is the one that was called "Guet-appens" and previous to that it was called something else: At any rate--this juice is remarkable because it is a citrus comp that is tenacious beyond belief, as all of these notes typically will fade. This edp I have will last 12 hours on skin--and by the 3rd hour, one starts getting tired of smelling like savon de marseille: I once got a massage in it and was told by a colleague that the massage room had to be aired out after i left as she was in the same day and the windows were open--she could still smell it--so there's an interesting ingredient: Attrape Coeur. A perfume that "is" the flight of most geurlains--that bergamot-lemon medly--interestingly, having syphoned off 1/3 of my bee bottle, I dropped a bit of shalimar perfume in this--and it just "became" shalimar eau de parfum--verbena soap, erased. I bet i could make a reasonable interpretation of jicky of it with about 60ml of pure lavender oil, some rose wood essential oil and one pin head dipped into my civet and immersed in the remainder--I'm just so scared of that civet!!!!! Does anybody have any real civet? because I do and it's hilarious: it smells EXACTLY like a dirty, unkempt old man who shat his pants and didn't care, and it's so strong that one single drop of it will turn 1000ml of anything into a "soliflore" of "Arse-Crack" !!!!!!

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Is there artificial/synthetic civet which can replace the natural one ? If the role of it in a fragrance is to offset/create a contrasting note in an otherwise sweet or flowery accord, synthetics can surely be used, rather than a product of the torture of fellow sentient beings ?
    I am aware my query does not answer you directly, MdM, and yet I wonder if looking away from your habits might not help yourself out of the rut.
    Vivre d’erreurs et de parfums.

    Pour comprendre le bonheur, il faut le voir comme étant une récompense et jamais un but. (Antoine de St Exupéry).

  28. #28

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Good call, Laureline. Civet, or "Civette" as we know it, is always synthetic. Natural Civet has been illegal for quite some time and is no longer used in modern perfumery, and hasn't been to my knowledge since the late 80's. The Civet I have, I believe, must be synthetic. Synthetics, when they are of good quality, often cost more than the natural essences they seek to replicate. So, it stands to reason that synthetic civet will be conceived to behave exactly as does the natural, which mine does. Unfortunately I can't verify that mine is synthetic or not: I know the provenance of it, that is, where I myself obtained it. (Not where it was made) It would be interesting to research exactly when Civet became an illegal export: I recollect it was 1989, along with Ambregris. Civet, be it natural or otherwise, is indeed one of the most powerful musks. We are here to discuss how to use it. (among other things) We are not here to discuss whether or not an animal was hurt or abused because of it: That discussion can be applied to the soles of your shoes, the food on your plate, and the clothing on your back. It may also be applied to all of the "Made in China" items to which we have all become
    addicted: How many fellow HUMANS suffered to bring us those? And what about India? How many children were involved embroidering that purse, or that scarf? I'm afraid this is not the forum upon which to battle out a discussion such as that. (There must be others, I'm sure.) Since we are now clearly off topic, On another note: today I experienced "Vitriol d'Oeillet" by Serge Lutens. "Angry Carnation" should have been called "S'mores baking." (Note: "S'mores" are: chocolate sandwiches you make over an open fire while camping with marshmallows and gallettes sablees) I who have been addicted to Comme des Garcons "Carnation" had high hopes for Serge Lutens & his furious carnation. Unfortunately, he proves the point I make above: It smells a bit like carnation, then turns into "Angel"-- I can take a LOT in a parfum sniff test--but this, I was near sick by mid day: I felt as if I'd eaten too much chocolate and I must admit I was quite disgusted by it. I don't want to smell like chocolate. Clearly, I prefer to smell like an old man's arse crack--attached as I am to civet--synthetic or otherwise. To some, this would be make perfect sense......

    "
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  29. #29

    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    ....and to those "some," (you know who you are) please don't let's be discussing this on a public forum, hmm? :-)

  30. #30
    Laureline's Avatar
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    Default Re: Incestuous mixes: Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur, immersed

    Of course MdM nobody is interested in discussing your preference for this side the other or both according to the weather.
    If the one liter of civette dilution you were gifted in the early nineties is synthetic,
    I dont believe your are of the people who actually care to verify the provenance of their goods, food and clothing. And fyi many more are than you seem to know, including me.

    So what is it you want to bring to discussion ?
    The ranting about the industry and Guerlain/LVMH well, you did that quite well indeed, with that touch of nostalgia.
    There is a thread or two in 'fragrance discussion' thread, the female I believe, where conversations are going on about Vitriol d'Oeillet.
    As for what to do with the materials you own, you could try talking with passionate diy'ers on the fragrance diy threads. You can surely awaken someone's interest into playing with you.
    Last edited by Laureline; 17th September 2011 at 10:31 PM.
    Vivre d’erreurs et de parfums.

    Pour comprendre le bonheur, il faut le voir comme étant une récompense et jamais un but. (Antoine de St Exupéry).

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