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  1. #1
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    Default Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    So my sample of Creed Sublime Vanille came today (again I implore everyone to buy decants and samples, instead of full bottles, so you can smell more things. Ebay has a ton of good stuff and tpc has everything if you want to pay more.).

    Any way, it smells like a very simple vanilla with hints of fruit. The whole point of Sublime Vanille is that it's a very natural rendition of Vanilla, made with high quality ingredients that smell really good because they're of such high quality.

    However, Turin's rating system only judges the note combination used in a fragrance. He doesn't award any credit for high quality ingredients. So he wouldn't give Sublime Vanille more than one star. He would probably write something like "boring vanilla akin go air freshners you get for your car, from gas stations for $1.99." That's why he rates some very cheap perfumes highly, and some very expensive perfumes poorly. Grey Flannel and Tommy Girl get 5/5 scores, but a bunch of Creeds get 1s.

    Luca Turin, **** ***.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    I personally agree with Luca on the Sublime Vanille rating.
    Last edited by petruccijc; 11th November 2011 at 04:38 PM.

  3. #3
    Super Member YEAHBUDDY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerel9 View Post
    a bunch of Creeds get 1s.
    sounds about right to me.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    I usually don't give much credence to his rating of a fragrance. I like this one though.

  5. #5
    NewHaarlem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerel9 View Post
    ...Grey Flannel and Tommy Girl get 5/5 scores, but a bunch of Creeds get 1s.
    I think it's because, in terms of price, scent, and longevity, those two beat most of Creed's fragrances.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    Isn't perception of quality very subjective.
    for swap/sale:



  7. #7

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    Who cares if a perfume has high quality ingredients if they don't translate into a great scent? I think Turin is absolutely right to judge a scent on its merit and not on its supposedly wonderful components. I disagree with many of his reviews (noses vary), but this criteria makes perfect sense to me.
    Current Top Five:

    1. Creed Green Irish Tweed
    2. Tom Ford Neroli Portofino
    3. Hermes Concentre d'Orange Verte
    4. Bond No. 9 New Haarlem
    5. Creed Original Vetiver

  8. #8

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    Why should the quality of the ingredients make any difference? How does one define "quality?" All that matters is the end product. I can take a bunch of "quality ingredients" and create an absolute disaster. Should I get points for the parts?
    Griff
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    Let me make sure I have this right: You started a thread attacking Luca Turin because of what you imagine he might say about a particular fragrance?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    A perfume is A+B= C
    If you have only A or B, even if it's highest quality ingredient, it's not perfumry. An absolute of vanilia isn't a perfume.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by Griff View Post
    Why should the quality of the ingredients make any difference? How does one define "quality?" All that matters is the end product. I can take a bunch of "quality ingredients" and create an absolute disaster. Should I get points for the parts?
    Surely in any pursuit where you create something the core ingredients are vital (cooking,manufacturing etc), Why would you want a situation where you are consistantly offered the lowest common denominator? Its attitudes like that define the poor quality plastic in modern cars and the reformulated 'improved taste' in food that always ends up being inferior to the previous incarnation.

    If you have a concoction of synthy products you'll have a product that gives you headaches and smells like the evolution of a toilet bleach.

    When you're making a product to a budget its always compromised.

    Quote Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post
    Isn't perception of quality very subjective.
    To a degree and thats why people should sample for themselves.

    I do think there is something of a misconception on the quality and composition of most fragrances by the general public, I agree with C9 that Turin's criteria are somewhat array and he isn't a good indicator of quality.

    Its a good book though*

    *If you're caught short on toilet paper.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    I remember several fragrances being called cheap, therefore quite possibly losing points, thus I would say it is fair to assume that he does consider the quality of the ingredients.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    I'm sure he'll be grateful for the tip.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by Griff View Post
    Why should the quality of the ingredients make any difference? How does one define "quality?" All that matters is the end product. I can take a bunch of "quality ingredients" and create an absolute disaster. Should I get points for the parts?
    My thought exactly
    The hunt for a Signature Fragrance is not an easy one! I see the light at the end of the tunnel! Edit: 2015... I've given up and given in
    Want to buy or swap: A*men Ultra Zest, Bentley Intense, Mont Blanc Legend Intense, Paco Rabanne Invictus,

  15. #15

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    I think your argument is spurious. Good ingredients do not of themselves make a good perfume.

    Beginning with good ingredients is necessary for quality results, but it's also how those ingredients are used that matter. Take, for example, an artist who uses the most expensive oil paints, but can't do anything worthwhile with them. So what? Or a chef who selects the best quality foodstuffs but cannot cook or combine them properly?

    Perfumery is an art of creation. High quality ingredients, if indeed that is what Creed uses, are only the raw materials. Good construction is what ultimately matters. I do believe that using quality ingredients should count for something, but only if that high quality shows in the final product.

    I'm not familiar with Sublime Vanille, and frankly, I don't think I can tell much about the quality of ingredients used in any perfume. So I cannot comment specifically. But I will say that if you like it, wear it and enjoy it and don't worry about what critics who are trying to sell books have to say about it.
    Currently wearing: Équipage by Hermès

  16. #16

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    Y'know, he's just another reviewer out there. They say opinions are like arseholes...
    Currently wearing: Epic Man by Amouage

  17. #17

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients


  18. #18

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    I've been saying here for a long time that reviewers of anything should disclose their criteria. If they don't, they get to "move the goalposts" at will, which is clearly inappropriate. For me, note contrast has become very important, for example, yet I seem to be one of the few people who cares about this (or even recognizes it).

  19. #19
    zztopp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    To be fair he destroyed Guerlains SD Vanille in his review (which might be more complex than Sublime Vanille but can't match its ingredients).
    -

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    To be fair he destroyed Guerlains SD Vanille in his review (which might be more complex than Sublime Vanille but can't match its ingredients).
    Another accurate review by Mr.Turin.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    What I don't get is how people off the street can make such claims about ingredient quality? How do you that Creed uses high-quality stuff? Please don't say their ad copy....

  22. #22

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    There's this magical instrument thats placed below your eyes and above your mouth.

  23. #23
    NewHaarlem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by petruccijc View Post
    Another accurate review by Mr.Turin.
    +1 Anyone can buy another version of Guerlain's SDV for $220 less in the baking section at any grocery store.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by Kron View Post
    There's this magical instrument thats placed below your eyes and above your mouth.
    Just because a perfume is made of synthetics doesn't mean it's a low quality product. Most natural ingredients are dirt cheap, anyway. However, if you are able to distinguish between various qualities of, say, vetiver oils of different origins and grades; or cedar, jasmine, vanilla absolutes, various synthetics.. in a perfume composition then well done and respect.

  25. #25
    Dependent Partario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by barclaydetolly View Post
    Who cares if a perfume has high quality ingredients if they don't translate into a great scent? I think Turin is absolutely right to judge a scent on its merit and not on its supposedly wonderful components. I disagree with many of his reviews (noses vary), but this criteria makes perfect sense to me.
    + 1

  26. #26
    bokaba's Avatar
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    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    He gives Chanel, Guerlain, and Caron high marks because he claims they use good ingredients which is true I suppose compared to your standard designer.

  27. #27
    AromiErotici
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    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    If a frag, regardless of genre, has a quality smell to it, then it's a quality frag. It matters not if the ingredients were expensive or not. The kudos go to the perfumer for using whatever they had to churn out something reeking of....well, quality......

    Micallef ( for example ) smells like quality to me. It stands to reason she uses quality material, but in truth, how the hell would I know? I chalk her quality creations up to skill level.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by A. Homme View Post
    What I don't get is how people off the street can make such claims about ingredient quality? How do you that Creed uses high-quality stuff? Please don't say their ad copy....
    Well, the lady at Saks told me that a bunch of Kings and celebrities use it. Do YOU think that celebrities and royalty would wear frags that don't have the most exquisite and high quality ingredients in it? Didn't think so. Besides, I've been wearing cologne like forever, so obviously I am an expert in determining what accounts for quality in a perfume.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerel9 View Post
    ............Any way, it smells like a very simple vanilla with hints of fruit. The whole point of Sublime Vanille is that it's a very natural rendition of Vanilla, made with high quality ingredients that smell really good because they're of such high quality.

    That's why he rates some very cheap perfumes highly, and some very expensive perfumes poorly. Grey Flannel and Tommy Girl get 5/5 scores, but a bunch of Creeds get 1s....

    There's way too much to cover here, but Tommy Girl and Grey Flannel are both excellent fragrances. There are few florals I'd rather smell on my girlfriend than Tommy Girl.


    A few examples in which Turin and Sanchez mention Creed and raw materials
    :

    Acier Aluminum (Creed) *** amber banana
    The name leads you to believe you'll get a metallic sporty fragrances. Instead you get a sort of banana-jam oriental. Very good materials, very confused composition. TS

    Neroli Sauvage (Creed) *** green citrus
    Creed excels at conventional accords done with good raw materials, and this fresh, green, woody neroli is one. No great shakes, but works like it says on the can and smells good. LT

    Selection Verte (Creed) *** fresh citrus
    A very nice fresh-citrus accord consisting mainly of high-quality lemon oil, verbena, and what smells like a touch of bouquet de provence. Unpretentious, straightforward, and zingy. LT
    Last edited by pluran; 12th November 2011 at 12:00 AM.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Luca Turin's error is that he doesn't award any points for quality ingredients

    But pluran, do you think they would still get 3 stars if they were made by Coty and sold for around $30 per 50 ml, possessing clearly lower quality ingredients? This is the problem with not disclosing criteria or providing enough detail. Does LT take price into account? Would these Creeds have been given at least 4 stars if Coty sold 50 ml for $30 (meaning the exact same thing, including ingredient quality)? I have no idea !

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