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Thread: Fuzzy Texture

  1. #1
    gecko214's Avatar
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    Default Fuzzy Texture

    Anybody know how the fuzzy, rough-but-smooth note one finds in Vintage Tabarome might be achieved? I am not trying to copy VT so much as to attempt to replicate that effect. It is, for those who have not smelled it, something like the sound of a fuzzy electric guitar, something between Blur and Nirvana. Or like a saw-blade but covered in cloth, just not sharp enough to cut and where you can still feel the bumps of the steel sharp steel underneath.

    I am sure this is asking too much; that effect is probably why VT is considered a masterpiece by some, and probably pure hubris for me to even attempt it. Still I ask. It has obsessed me for 2 years now. Something about the orris/cedar/musk/tea together I think, but that still, when I try it, is neither as full or as roughly sweet as the VT base.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Fuzzy Texture

    OK well at the risk of sounding like an amateur painter presented with a description of a fine Constable who says 'I've done one like that' . . . I've done some like that.

    The effect relies, I think, on a combination of synthetic ambergris, sandalwood, vanilla, a little vetiver, tobacco and basil. I don't think you need cedar, though it can work with that too - natural or synthetic.

    You can emphasise it further using Iso E Super, but you don't need any to get the effect.

    Now it is of course entirely possible that what I'm thinking of here isn't what you are detecting in Creed's vintage offering at all (I've not smelt it) in which case I apologise for showing off . . .
    Chris Bartlett
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Fuzzy Texture

    When I use too much naturals it gets fuzzy pretty quickly, but I don't think that's what you are after

  4. #4
    gecko214's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuzzy Texture

    LOL. Yes, well, "muddy" I have managed many times. "Fuzzy" on the other hand, is harder... I tried some variations on Chris' suggestions, and it does get closer (and a nice effect, thanks Chris!), but I would say a more fine-toothed fuzziness is achieved; a velvety fuzz, whereas the VT fuzz is more wide-toothed. I think, as you hint S, with naturals probably impossible. Which begs the question of how VT could possibly have been made in 1875. Maybe someone from Creed could clarify that Probably needs the artificial ambergris and a dry synthetic sandalwood to get the dry-sweet scutchiness.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Fuzzy Texture

    I'll have to have a think about a more wide-toothed fuzz: perhaps you need Virginian Cedarwood for that? With that alongside the sandalwood you should get that kind of edgy feel similar to some of the synthetic woods.

    I'm pretty sure none of the synthetic ambergris were about in 1875 - certainly production of synthetic vanillin was well underway by then but I don't think much else would have been available. Though it is of course possible that something was produced in secret just for this perfume - much in the way that the big companies keep captive molecules to themselves today.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  6. #6
    gecko214's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuzzy Texture

    Reviving this thread with an update. I have been experimenting with patchouli in this mix and it does seem to give the wider-tooth/rougher fuzziness. It is in the mint/basil family (I think) and thus is a variation on Chris' basil solution. Of course it is a delicate balance because too much and you just get hippy patchouli (which I happen to like, but that is not the point) too little and the effect does not work. Cedar wood seems to be essential too. Still, it seems highly unlikely VT is in fact from 1875. Must be some fancy aromachems in there, late 20th century.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Fuzzy Texture

    Thatís very interesting - patchouli is indeed in the mint/basil family and that has reminded me that I get the same fuzzy, incense-like quality from Minted Mornings, which contains three different varieties of mint but interestingly neither synthetic ambergris, nor cedarwood (though there is some Cedramber and sandalwood in it). So in this case the mint and the sandalwood / cedramber seem to be enough. There is no Iso E Super in Minted Mornings either, so that makes me think this might be done with naturals after all - have you tried adding peppermint to your patchouli experiment?
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Fuzzy Texture

    This is an interesting discussion, I have been playing around with
    Virgina Cedar, Patchouli, Frankincense (small amount) and Black Pepper (trace) with reasonable results.
    Too much frankincense and black pepper and it is more smoky than fuzzy though.

  9. #9
    gecko214's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fuzzy Texture

    Joe have you added orris ( or some other inonone if you are not doing only natural)?

    I played most yesterday with this, and some absolutely sublime co2 ambrette I got from liberty natural, with a toasty warmess hard to describe, has been critical to keeping a dry roundness (I highly recommend this stuff, buy it, you won't regret). The major achevement of yesterday I think, with the combo of tobacco abs, ambrette co2, orris co2, cedar, tonka, sandalwood and a trace of patchouli, dry ginger, black pepper,was getting a dry, smooth dry down without the tobacco going "sour" (A major frustration of mine for months).

  10. #10

    Default Re: Fuzzy Texture

    I am really just beggining in terms of training my nose to the main notes and experimenting with simple accords. I only have natural oils at present but hope to move onto the most important synthetics further along the way. I don't currently have orris and will add this to my next shopping list along with some tobacco absolute. The ambrette sounds excellent.

    Had another idea for your fuzzy texture which is using vetiver for the sharpness and overlaying clove / black pepper until the desired texture is obtained.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Fuzzy Texture

    One more update on this.

    I now have a mix of vetiver, clove, black pepper, sandalwood and tonka which is working for me. I am convinced the clove is the key being an analgaesic I think it has a slightly hypnotising / numbing mental effect.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Fuzzy Texture

    Slightly off-topic, but I remember reading this thread back in November and really had no idea what you meant by this fuzzy texture!? I'm happy to report that I've since smelled two commercial fragrances that have this fuzziness EXACTLY as you describe - one is the recent offering from Bond No. 9 'New York Oud' and the other is the mid-century women's perfume 'Ma Griffe'... New York Oud is a very complex perfume and it's impossible for me to pin point where the fuzziness comes from - however, with Ma Griffe, I'm almost certain that there is a dissonance or vibration occurring between the aldehydes and asofedita (asofedita is probably one of the foulest smelling things on earth, but oh my it's lovely when warmed in a cast iron pan...) In any event, that's my report from the field :-)
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