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  1. #1

    Default Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    I'm not a woman, but I imagine if I were, I would get pretty sick of girly, frilly, flowery, pink and otherwise stereotypical feminine packaging for perfume. Yes, I understand some people love this stuff (see Betsey Johnson's popularity) but I'm curious if others find it borderline offensive? Isn't it condescending to assume this stuff will appeal to women? What happened to women having a better aesthetic sensibility than men? Compare the classic elegance of Chanel's iconic bottle to some of the garbage out there today, and tell me I'm not imagining this.

    A case in point: I haven't tried the Pour Elle version of Encre Noire, but am very relieved to hear that the fugly new bottle I keep seeing in stores is a new fragrance and not simply a new packaging design (if you can call it that) for the original. I find the original Encre Noire bottle design to be one of the most elegant, modern, perfectly understated and witty things out there in a market dominated by odious design choices. Does anyone else think the Pour Elle bottle is as irritating as I do? What, women like frilly scripts now? Crap calligraphy? I was ready to run out and stock up on what I was beginning to think was "vintage" Encre Noire. Sans serif all caps take me away! Lalique, if you're reading this, don't ever mess with the original Encre Noire bottle design, no matter what any focus group tells you.

    Apologies if this has already been hashed out elsewhere on the forum. I'm curious about what others think?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Agree. and viceversa too. what's wrong with guys wearing flower perfumes? And why do bottles have to be square and bulky? (as in the new ugly Guerlains).

    cacio

  3. #3

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    I don't really mind frilly, girly packaging. I mostly ignore it, as I've been buying things in that kind of packaging my entire life. But my favorite bottles are not frilly. My favorites are simple apothecary style bottles, and I love the Bois 1920 bottles. At Avery in NOLA I got an up close and personal look at the Boadicea the Victoria bottles, which are absolutely gorgeous. They are ornate without being frilly. I can appreciate that.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    And why do bottles have to be square and bulky? (as in the new ugly Guerlains).cacio
    Love My Derby, but that bottle sucks big time!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Luckily, my Derby is in the pre-Lupinesque splash bee bottle, which was evidently deemed too girlie for the boys.

    cacio

  6. #6

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    and what about marketing campaigns??? Have you happened to read the "inspirational words" (that's how they call them) of the new Heeley's Bubblegum Chic?

    Words are: extract of glamour, pink, passion, lips, mouth, soft, warmth, sparkle, appetite, forbidden, fun, fatale, fruit, desire, smile, sweet, skin, shining, intoxicate, girls, omnivorous, insatiable .

    Bubblegum Chic is clearly marketed as feminine and my point is this: how is it possible in 2011 to use such trite commonplaces to describe a feminine fragrance?

    Obnoxious.
    Last edited by alfarom; 24th November 2011 at 10:26 PM.


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  7. #7

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    Luckily, my Derby is in the pre-Lupinesque splash bee bottle, which was evidently deemed too girlie for the boys.

    cacio
    Now that's a great bottle. Who doesn't love bees? I've got Eau de Cologne Imperial in a bee spray bottle. Clear glass embossed with bees, so chic.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by alfarom View Post
    and what about marketing campaigns??? Have you happen to read the "inspirational words" (that's how they call them) of the new Heeley's Bibblegum Chic?

    Words are: extract of glamour, pink, passion, lips, mouth, soft, warmth, sparkle, appetite, forbidden, fun, fatale, fruit, desire, smile, sweet, skin, shining, intoxicate, girls, omnivorous, insatiable .

    Bubblegum Chic is clearly marketed as feminine and my point is this: how is it possible in 2011 to use such trite commonplaces to describe a feminine fragrance?

    Obnoxious.
    Good point. And it is this very childish girlishness, as opposed to feminity and womanliness, that gets obnoxious. Does every woman want to smell like a little girl? Or be perceived as a little girl? Is it the sexualizing of infants we are after? Now...full disclosure...I do like fun fruity sweet scents, but I do not feel attracted by this type of advertising. But it is in our culture now: shorty babydoll dresses, tiny handbags, cupcake scents, pink frills -- and all for grown women. I think it is on its way out now. I think there is more grown up attitude coming into fashion, or has been for a while, but it takes time to make its way into the mainstream.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by alfarom View Post
    and what about marketing campaigns??? Have you happen to read the "inspirational words" (that's how they call them) of the new Heeley's Bibblegum Chic?

    Words are: extract of glamour, pink, passion, lips, mouth, soft, warmth, sparkle, appetite, forbidden, fun, fatale, fruit, desire, smile, sweet, skin, shining, intoxicate, girls, omnivorous, insatiable .

    Bubblegum Chic is clearly marketed as feminine and my point is this: how is it possible in 2011 to use such trite commonplaces to describe a feminine fragrance?

    Obnoxious.
    Wow, that is excruciating, nauseating & almost disturbing. For that alone, l would avoid going anywhere near it.
    "What is this secret connection between the soul, and sea, clouds and perfumes? The soul itself appears to be sea, cloud and perfume..." - from Zorba the Greek by Nikos Kazantzakis.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by lilybelle View Post
    Good point. And it is this very childish girlishness, as opposed to feminity and womanliness, that gets obnoxious. Does every woman want to smell like a little girl? Or be perceived as a little girl? Is it the sexualizing of infants we are after? Now...full disclosure...I do like fun fruity sweet scents, but I do not feel attracted by this type of advertising. But it is in our culture now: shorty babydoll dresses, tiny handbags, cupcake scents, pink frills -- and all for grown women. I think it is on its way out now. I think there is more grown up attitude coming into fashion, or has been for a while, but it takes time to make its way into the mainstream.
    Here's hoping. Fingers crossed. Thanks for your comment, I couldn't agree more. There's something creepy about the whole lacy baby thing.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    It's the girlishness which irritates me. I have never been a sugar-sweet-pinkie-girl! And it's the scents more than the bottles which irritate me. And yes, the advertisements! And the fact that all fragrances now have to be pink. Even when they are not a pink fragrance, like Kelly Calèche.

    I like the Boudicea the victorious bottles, I think they are very modern with nice Celtic designs. I don't mind the Encre Noir Pour Elle bottles so much, although they are less good than the male version, What I object to is the sickly sweet fragrance inside! how dare they call that ''encre Noir'' pour elle? It has nothing to do with the male versions. Why not call it, ''Rose plus sucré pour Elle''????

    I don't mind kitchy frilly bottles, but then I always honestly confess I have no taste.
    “Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron.”
    ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

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  12. #12

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by lilybelle View Post
    Good point. And it is this very childish girlishness, as opposed to feminity and womanliness, that gets obnoxious.
    Definitely! In the review I posted on Aromi's blog I say that Heeley seems to have committed those "inspirational words" to the stuff of "Sweet Sixsteen". I'm clearly not a woman but I still find this kind of advertising really silly, if not offensive....

    Omnivorous? Insatiable?


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  13. #13

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    What about this last ad for Marc jacobs? Só wrong in every detail and message and everything.
    And só not appealing. I don't see myself as an überthin, under age, substance abusing, sexualized waif with bad skin? I aspire to be a healthy elegant grown up woman!


    Last edited by FrouFrou; 24th November 2011 at 07:11 PM.
    “Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron.”
    ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

    www.aafke-art.com

  14. #14

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    And of course it's pink again.
    The girl is pink, the dress is pink, the background is pink and the juice is pink.
    I am getting sick of pink!
    “Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron.”
    ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by FrouFrou View Post
    What about this last ad for Marc jacobs?
    Greeeeeeeed! I just see greed and bad taste behind that add...I'm sorry.


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  16. #16

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    "Is that a vagina in your lap or are you just happy to see me?" So unsubtle it hurts. Thanks for finding this.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrouFrou View Post
    What about this last ad for Marc jacobs? Só wrong in every detail and message and everything.
    And so not appealing. I don't see myself as an überthin, under age, sexualized waif? I aspire to be a healthy elegant grown up woman!

  17. #17

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    It was actually banned in the uk because of it's impression of sexualising children.
    I ahven't smelled it yet, but something tells me it's going to be a sweet, sugary, fruity, flowery girly scent....
    “Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron.”
    ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

    www.aafke-art.com

  18. #18

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by FrouFrou View Post
    What about this last ad for Marc jacobs?
    Thanks for posting the pic, when I read the title of the thread that is the exact bottle that came to mind. I saw it a Macy's and my instinct was to move about 5 feet away from it as if it was some kind of weapon of mass destruction, I didn't even smell it.

    And to the poster who brought up the Bois 1920 bottles, I love those too.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    That Marc Jacobs add is brutal. I was waiting at the hair stylist when I popped open a Canadian fashion magazine and saw it. Very poor taste.

    Sometimes I am jealous at the packaging the feminine designer fragrances receive, other times I am happy I don't have to get a bottle like it. Yeah, some are pretty cheesy/lame/irritating...etc. Marketers hard at work, I suppose.
    Seeking: Bottles/decants : of Feeling Man, Gucci pour Homme, Essence of John Galliano, Nicole Miller (vintage), Opium pour Homme, Oxford & Cambridge, Concentré D'Orange Verte...etc.

    Seeking decant/sample of Jil Sander Feeling Man, Cacharel Nemo, Bijan for Men EDC, Lanvin for Men, Giorgio VIP, Il Lancetti and other old school frags ....etc. I have samples to swap.

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Hilarious! Keep those wacky pictures coming. I especially hate those japanese anime dolls. But then I'm not in the market demographic as I am waaaaay past 19. Also, I have never been a fan of pink and purple as a color combination. It might work on 6 year olds but that's about the limit.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    I was going to post the Marc Jacobs ad pictured above but FrouFrou has already done so. I must say I didn't think the ad is inappropriate or at least I would not have thought so right away. I was more struck by how aesthetically repugnant I found the ad. I have nothing against the model in the picture but the whole thing even the way it is lit made me think "eww no thanks". It was after this I thought oh the flower between her legs I see how very juvenile.

    I don't know if this counts as the bottle is not what I would say stereotypically feminine or offensive but Shalimar Parfum Initial really irritates me. Don't get me wrong I like it it's a nice perfume, however I think the juice was made pink with that same kind of patronizing sexist few that women or girls or both these days are so stupid and will only buy pink perfume.

    I think the same can be said for Coco Mademoiselle and possibly Miss Dior Cherie but I thought rightly or wrongly that Guerlain were above that sort of cynical marketing obviously I was wrong but then again Guerlain isn't run by Guerlains anymore sadly.
    Last edited by L'enfer; 24th November 2011 at 07:39 PM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Case in point:
    "It aims at women between the early teens and early thirties." Early thirties? Notes include pink sugar and "blonde woods." I'm not making this up. I'm dating myself, but I'm still waiting for Barbara Cartland to release a fragrance.



    and some role models:

    Last edited by professor goggles; 24th November 2011 at 07:45 PM.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Sorry I don't know how to post pics.... but I love my Paloma Picasso bottle ... the all glass round bottle. I wish I could get a hold of the old round Frapin bottles, also I like the old Amouage bottles.

    Back to that Marc Jacobs add, ... the add has no impact on me, I'm just offended by the top heavy, visual gluttony of the bottle itself. It's more garish than a Will Ferrel ice-scating outfit.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Sorry, it's already happened. Here she is with the bath and shower gel:


  25. #25

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Professor,

    There is a thread on this board... ugly bottle thread.... that I think you'd get a kick out of of. I think its on the men's board buried somewhere, but its quite entertaining and worth a bump if you want to have your mind blown by some outstanding bad design.


  26. #26

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Thanks, firehorse, I'll check it out. It's raining cats and dogs outside, I could use a laugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by firehorse View Post
    Professor,

    There is a thread on this board... ugly bottle thread.... that I think you'd get a kick out of of. I think its on the men's board buried somewhere, but its quite entertaining and worth a bump if you want to have your mind blown by some outstanding bad design.


  27. #27

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by alfarom View Post
    Greeeeeeeed! I just see greed and bad taste behind that add...I'm sorry.
    When greed meets the eazy option: creative slothfulness. Now there's room for mediocrity!

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?



    I must confess I'm a sucker for pink stuff...



    Last edited by Fleurine; 24th November 2011 at 10:47 PM.

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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Maybe, but, eau please! What is that big blob coming out of the top? Really?

  30. #30

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Has anyone noticed that the more prestigious the brand the less ,for lack of better word, disgusting the presentation is and vice versa. Escada vs Armani Prive as a random comparison.

    for swap/sale:





  31. #31

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by professor goggles View Post
    Sorry, it's already happened. Here she is with the bath and shower gel:

    Ah the animated meringue !

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonoanimoes View Post
    Love My Derby, but that bottle sucks big time!
    I love the new Guerlain bottles - very simple but then again i like that sort of thing. You are more of the Amouage type lol ;-P

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by FrouFrou View Post
    What about this last ad for Marc jacobs? Só wrong in every detail and message and everything.
    And só not appealing. I don't see myself as an überthin, under age, substance abusing, sexualized waif with bad skin? I aspire to be a healthy elegant grown up woman!


    Britain has apparently banned this add. Which i thin is hilarious

  34. #34

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    I am not a bottle person, a friend has a large collection. But the frilly bottles put me off even lifting to sniff a perfume. I love the new Bottega Veneta bottle solid simple does what its meant to do, like the Serge Lutens, Chanel etc.

    Now not pink or flowery but the one I really hated was the Donna Karan Signature in the Klingon Phaser bottle. It was a nightmare to use!
    DONNA

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?


    I thought this was rather odd.


    And this is typical over-the-top juvenile fare.
    Last edited by kumquat; 25th November 2011 at 07:04 PM.

  36. #36
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    I tend to not pick up anything frilly/frothy/fluffy, and sure don't dress fluffy but never did, really, except as costume. I'm not a floaty clothes kinda person. The daughters aren't, either, come to think of it.

    But I do admit a fondness for Hello Kitty, where is the blushing/embarrased smiley? Corporate marketing of nothing-at-all, but that is such an iconic image.

  37. #37

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    At the same time you have to realize that if the scent is from Biebs, Americas Next Top Model ( ) or Barbie, the tacky packaging should be expected. Am I off base here ?

    What annoys me is that certain supposed good designers like Marc Jacobs come out with the most rubbish bottles. They are either very plain ( and not a "good" or nice plain either). Or they are very ugly like pretty much all his womens scents and the recent Bang/Bang Bang junk that has come out.

    As a side note, Jacobs is nothing special himself. Hilarious to see him get all that credit for the grunge look on his models in the early 90s. Did he invent that look ? As if. But what can I expect from the fashion runway world.
    Seeking: Bottles/decants : of Feeling Man, Gucci pour Homme, Essence of John Galliano, Nicole Miller (vintage), Opium pour Homme, Oxford & Cambridge, Concentré D'Orange Verte...etc.

    Seeking decant/sample of Jil Sander Feeling Man, Cacharel Nemo, Bijan for Men EDC, Lanvin for Men, Giorgio VIP, Il Lancetti and other old school frags ....etc. I have samples to swap.

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  38. #38
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Here are some I thought were good examples;


















    This is the bizarre Princess Leia Perfume.



    I love the enticing name they came up with for this fume.
    Last edited by kumquat; 25th November 2011 at 08:44 PM.

  39. #39

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    @kumquat Those are great! It's always nice to have a slave bracelet on your perfume, to remind you of who's really in charge. As for Kathy Hilton's Secret, I wasn't aware the Hiltons kept any secrets. And "Smell" I'm guessing was a pretty slow day for the creative department. "I know, let's call it... SMELL!" "Sure, why not, we haven't been able to come up with anything else in the last four hours and the deadline on the brief is tomorrow."

  40. #40

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfacing View Post
    At the same time you have to realize that if the scent is from Biebs, Americas Next Top Model ( ) or Barbie, the tacky packaging should be expected. Am I off base here ?
    I agree with that. I'd also expect the Betsy Johnson bottle to be tacky and fun.

  41. #41
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    I wonder what non-terrestrial anthropologists would think of us based on these products.

    I read/heard somewhere recently that our possessions are becoming less revealing of their purpose. Meaning, if an alien landed on the planet, our earliest inventions would be easy to interpret -- take a chair, for instance. With technological objects like ipods and all the needless geegaws that now litter store shelves, it would be hard for a non-earthling to guess their utility. Glad I'm not the human who would have to explain/defend any of the objects seen in the images kumquat was so good to collect for us.
    In a world where 6 million people are added each month, every landscape matters.

  42. #42

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    I think that it's too easy to be diverted from the perfume by the packaging. For example Princess is an OK perfume in a rosy posy way but it has a revolting teenage Disney heart shaped bottle. Probably nobody over 14 would even bother to test it.
    Other perfumes have a classy plain bottle but the actual perfumes inside is very ordinary, e. g Prada.
    After all nobody sees the bottle once you are wearing the perfume.

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by angelofthenorth View Post
    After all nobody sees the bottle once you are wearing the perfume.
    That's true. lt's surprisingly easy to forget that perfume is essentially invisible!

    l don't buy perfumes for the bottle, but l am put off if the bottle is ugly/tacky. Maybe it shouldn't, but for me it does take away from the feeling of glamour l want from wearing a nice perfume.
    "What is this secret connection between the soul, and sea, clouds and perfumes? The soul itself appears to be sea, cloud and perfume..." - from Zorba the Greek by Nikos Kazantzakis.

  44. #44

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    I didn't try Vera Wang Princess for a long, long time because I had already pre-judged the fragrance based on the bottle. I really hated that bottle. Someone sent me a decant of the fragrance, though, and I loved it. It was pretty and innocuous, perfect for substitute teaching children. Now that I think about it, the bottle really suits the fragrance. I still hate the bottle, but I like the fragrance. Hmm...interesting. What would we choose to wear if fragrances came in plain glass test tubes with numbers for names? I think the bottle doesn't really matter to me, what's more important is the fragrance inside, but the bottle does have an effect on some level.

    To Quarry's point, I wonder what an alien would make of the detritus of my house. I aspire toward a selective minimalism, but I attract useless clutter like a magnet.

  45. #45
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by teardrop View Post
    lt's surprisingly easy to forget that perfume is essentially invisible!
    Boy, isn't that something to contemplate?

    Quote Originally Posted by lilybelle View Post
    To Quarry's point, I wonder what an alien would make of the detritus of my house. I aspire toward a selective minimalism, but I attract useless clutter like a magnet.
    If it makes you happy, though, it serves a purpose.
    In a world where 6 million people are added each month, every landscape matters.

  46. #46
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Here are some more to contemplate.



































    Last edited by kumquat; 26th November 2011 at 10:35 PM.

  47. #47
    Hillaire
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    These are all simply tailored to their target demographics, well-researched and probed for nuance... from banal, unreflective tween filigree to the post-post camp la Chapelle references of designers like Johnston. And all that lies in between, mostly of the bling-upon-bling, subversively-ironic sort... and all of it out of the economy-in-crisis, urban-junk-bauble Zeitgeist.

    I see very little to be offended by in any of it. And lots of it I actually find pretty clever.
    Last edited by Hillaire; 27th November 2011 at 12:30 AM.

  48. #48

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    What offends me about that Marc Jacob bottle is how easily it would get knocked over.

  49. #49
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    For me this kind of marketing serves mostly as warning signs of more fruity florals I wouldn't be interested in anyway.

    I do miss the old kind of marketing that played upon a woman's desire to be grown-up and sophisticated instead of perpetually adolescent.(What's the deal with walking pigeon toed?)

    I also don't appreciate the continual references to looking stupid and vulnerable; easy prey for sexual conquest- the obvious goal. The girl in the addict add looks like a complete idiot, IMO.

  50. #50

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    I don't find any of the innocuous though tacky, overly pink and ultra-girly bottles nearly as offensive as that stupid, vulgar Tom Ford ad, but that's about marketing, not the bottle (which is just fine as far as bottles go, btw.) Sorry kumquat - I appreciate all the effort you put into illustrating this thread, but I don't see how that ad belongs in this discussion, and I'm sick of it cropping up everywhere.
    Science is not only compatible with spirituality, it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. ..Carl Sagan

  51. #51

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    Agree. and viceversa too. what's wrong with guys wearing flower perfumes? And why do bottles have to be square and bulky? (as in the new ugly Guerlains).

    cacio
    I second the opinion that men smell wonderful in florals. They smell good in most everything they choose to wear!

    The bottle for Shalimar is elegant; the bottle of Betsey Johnson TooToo is great for a tweenage girl.

    Those new Guerlain men's bottles are an aesthetic atrocity that offends my eyes, even if the scents please my nose.

    Kumquat, GREAT post of images. Thank you for sharing.

    Give me bottle of Vol de Nuit or Chanel Cuir de Russie in the extrait, please.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  52. #52
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    kumquat, what images you have come up with! I've seen several of those ads, can't avoid them, but
    some are new to me, I don't know when I've ever seen so much overdone pink...
    I really, really don't appreciate any of that kind of packaging, as someone else mentioned, for
    one things, it's a warning of what may be inside the bottle. I've never been much for frilly pink etc.,
    maybe when I was 6 or 7, I would have loved that kind of thing, but even as a teenager that kind
    of thing didn't impress me. Quite the thread you started, Professor Goggles!

  53. #53

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    I have to recover from that overdose of pink fluffiness, and the Tom Ford had me looking for a bucket. (to be sick in)

    Yes, why don't we see adverts of sophisticated, adult elegant women?

    And don't believe that all that ''research'' into what sells best is reliable. They make more than half of it up, and because a lot of people are sheep and follow what the style guru's tell them to like they buy the crap, but if the commercials would change, and the magazines would change, into promoting the soignee elegant woman aspired to in the 50s, it would take less than a year and all frilly pink dumb blond bimbo's would try to be deep and erudite.
    Hell, they might even start reading books!

    I think this pink poison is an anti-feminist conspiracy, to diminish women's IQ and keep men at the top of the foodchain.
    “Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron.”
    ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

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  54. #54
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by HazelMae View Post
    What offends me about that Marc Jacob bottle is how easily it would get knocked over.
    I think this way, I like girly stuff but not if it makes no practical sense. Good point!

    I like that Avril Lavigne Black Star includes the "be your own star" tag line. I actually like her ad.

    I think the one image that truly offends me of all these are those juicy couture dogs that are either photoshopped or dyed pastel colors. That image bothers me.


    Edit: Mature people are also allowed to wear/like pink. It is just another color, after all.



    Last edited by Fleurine; 27th November 2011 at 07:04 PM.

    Dans La Nuit Vers Le Jour Sans Adieu Je Reviens Vers Toi.


  55. #55

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Thanks everyone for your thoughts and the abundance of illustrative material to this discussion! Kumquat, you seem to have a real knack for finding this stuff. The "bird" with the Cleopatra eyes eating cotton candy in the mod egg chair is particularly rich, and a reminder that the sexualization of juveniles is hardly a new phenomenon.

    This thread started from a collision of my feminist instinct with contemporary perfume advertising. Some might argue that a perfume aficionado website is not the best place for this discussion, but I believe that is exactly why it's most important to have it. At one point in history, marketing campaigns were specifically targeted to newly-empowered women, in such notorious campaigns as Virginia Slims cigarettes "You've come a long way, baby" encouraging women building careers and wearing pants to smoke up a storm along the way, and stay slim doing it. Perhaps not the healthiest choice, but at least the freedom to make it was being celebrated.

    Things seem to have gone in the opposite direction in recent years, and yes, I'm a bit concerned. Of course, it makes sense. There's a new market to exploit: tween girls with money to spend, living footloose and fancy-free on the hard work of their bra-burning forerunners. Marketers have created an artificial frontier between girlhood and womanhood and are milking it for all it's worth. It used to be that perfume was solely the purview of adult women, defining what a woman was by what she smelled of. When you were old enough for an expensive luxury item such as perfume, you were old enough to afford it or have the acquaintance of a gentleman to buy it for you. If not, you'd have to settle for sneaking into Mummy's room and trying hers on and hope you didn't get caught.

    A few things have happened since: young people are told they deserve more than they used to, they have a huge industry catering to their wants, and women (people in general I would argue) are not sure when they are supposed to be grown up. Increasingly we live in a culture of protracted adolescence. You're a sexual object from the moment you can blink your mascara'd eyes in a kiddie pageant, but when exactly do you pass from childhood to adulthood? Marketing shown by the examples in this thread is invested in obscuring the question. Be young and pretty forever, be innocent and childlike. Remain always sweet and virginal. Plastic surgery can make it happen. Poof! Now you never need to grow up. Dreams do Come True for women aged 12 to 32.

    Shalimar Parfum Initial is a perfect example from this new market. A "first perfume" that functions as a kind of training perfume until you're ready for the real stuff. It used to be that when you were ready for perfume, you wore perfume. Maybe the idea of perfume as something grown-up fancy ladies wore was outdated and didn't appeal to young consumers who wanted something specially made for them. Marketing is all about creating needs, and it's now impossible to say if any real need or interest in teen perfumes existed prior to it being fulfilled. Build a princess palace and princesses will come and live in it, seems to be the motivating idea here.

    Hillaire, you've stated, "These are all simply tailored to their target demographics, well-researched and probed for nuance... from banal, unreflective tween filigree to the post-post camp la Chapelle references of designers like Johnston. And all that lies in between, mostly of the bling-upon-bling, subversively-ironic sort... and all of it out of the economy-in-crisis, urban-junk-bauble Zeitgeist... I see very little to be offended by in any of it. And lots of it I actually find pretty clever."

    I agree, to a point. No one expects marketing to be anything but cynical. And yes, some of it is amusing. I'm not convinced yet, but consumers might be more sophisticated than I'm giving them (us) credit for. I just think a lot of it seems rather unoriginal and if only because of that, I take offense. Because I would like to see something better. In banking terms, if you don't give people credit, they don't have any credit. Call is misguided optimism.

    What I've heard expressed hear and elsewhere by intelligent women I know is a disbelief that the marketing industry continues to make the assumptions about women that it does and use them to move product. If we've come a long way, baby, the question remains, where are we going?

    Last edited by professor goggles; 27th November 2011 at 06:35 PM.

  56. #56

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by FrouFrou View Post

    I think this pink poison is an anti-feminist conspiracy, to diminish women's IQ and keep men at the top of the foodchain.
    I think it relates to women's status in society but in an inverse relationship. The closer women are to achieving full equality, the more the little-girl, helpless infantilizing stuff sells. Because in real life we have to work hard, make difficult decisions, weigh options, deal with consequences. Powerlessness and corresponding lack of responsibility is the the escapist fantasy that sells.

  57. #57

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Prof Goggles, thanks for that well written post
    Seeking: Bottles/decants : of Feeling Man, Gucci pour Homme, Essence of John Galliano, Nicole Miller (vintage), Opium pour Homme, Oxford & Cambridge, Concentré D'Orange Verte...etc.

    Seeking decant/sample of Jil Sander Feeling Man, Cacharel Nemo, Bijan for Men EDC, Lanvin for Men, Giorgio VIP, Il Lancetti and other old school frags ....etc. I have samples to swap.

    More HERE
    Please PM me !

  58. #58

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by professor goggles View Post
    It used to be that perfume was solely the purview of adult women, defining what a woman was by what she smelled of. When you were old enough for an expensive luxury item such as perfume, you were old enough to afford it or have the acquaintance of a gentleman to buy it for you. If not, you'd have to settle for sneaking into Mummy's room and trying hers on and hope you didn't get caught.
    In my lifetime, there has always been perfumes for adolescents, Love's Baby Soft has been around for a while...I'm not exactly young anymore

    Prior to the era of "Charlie" or "Enjoli" (she can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan) perfume was something a man bought you. The Aquolina Pink Sugars and Katy Perry Purrs are more likely to be bought by a woman or girl who has earned her own money than yesterday's Shalimar. Make of that what you will.

    Quote Originally Posted by professor goggles View Post
    A few things have happened since: young people are told they deserve more than they used to, they have a huge industry catering to their wants, and women (people in general I would argue) are not sure when they are supposed to be grown up. Increasingly we live in a culture of protracted adolescence.
    I'll never understand this. It's established fact that the reason young adults are slower to form households is that they are dealing with a tougher economic environment. In the US, at least, they are saddled with crippling student loan debt. In inflation-adjusted terms, wages are down and the cost of real estate is way, way up. I think the reason everyone likes to dump on those "entitled' young folk is because they subconsciously feel guilty that the young are facing such a messed-up environment. Yes they have iPods but when my parents graduated college, my dad could go to law school without crippling debt, and was more than able to support a family on one income. Even a high school graduate could do this. Try that today, it doesn't happen much. We're lucky so far that the millenials are enjoying their extended adolescence rather than rebelling against these crappy conditions!

  59. #59
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Professor Goggles, I am glad to meet you. You rock!

    P.S. I do like the color pink. I like all colors!

  60. #60

    Default Re: Stereotypical "Feminine" Bottles, Packaging: Irritating? Offensive? Humiliating?

    Quote Originally Posted by HazelMae View Post
    In my lifetime, there has always been perfumes for adolescents, Love's Baby Soft has been around for a while...I'm not exactly young anymore

    Prior to the era of "Charlie" or "Enjoli" (she can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan) perfume was something a man bought you. The Aquolina Pink Sugars and Katy Perry Purrs are more likely to be bought by a woman or girl who has earned her own money than yesterday's Shalimar. Make of that what you will.



    I'll never understand this. It's established fact that the reason young adults are slower to form households is that they are dealing with a tougher economic environment. In the US, at least, they are saddled with crippling student loan debt. In inflation-adjusted terms, wages are down and the cost of real estate is way, way up. I think the reason everyone likes to dump on those "entitled' young folk is because they subconsciously feel guilty that the young are facing such a messed-up environment. Yes they have iPods but when my parents graduated college, my dad could go to law school without crippling debt, and was more than able to support a family on one income. Even a high school graduate could do this. Try that today, it doesn't happen much. We're lucky so far that the millenials are enjoying their extended adolescence rather than rebelling against these crappy conditions!
    Excellent points! I had a fantastic vintage bottle of an Avon perfume in the shape of a blobby pink girl wearing a white plastic hat with a yellow and red polka-dot ribbon around it at one time, that can't have been for grown-ups. Little Miss something-or-other. Does anyone remember that or am I imagining it? The very idea of a woman buying perfume for herself indicates significant progress. Perhaps I am nostalgic. I fear I'm beginning to sound like an old fart at times, and I'm hardly old. Kids these days...
    Last edited by professor goggles; 27th November 2011 at 07:40 PM.

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