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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Firstly I'd like to correct a view from some who said indian oud smells like farms (don't be thick headed and make the comparison without even smelling the thing) Indian oud is sweet and doesn't have that sharp edge character like Cambodian oud so its not that stingy to the nose(with the more woodsy feel that is), though Indian ouds are no doubt louder than Cambodian ouds, In western cultures Cambodian oud would be preferred just because of that reason.

    Secondly Indian ouds are more in demand in arab cultures proof being they scent the mosque of the holy prophet(pbuh) with Indian oud incense (which is quite good as its preferred over the Saudi oud itself).

  2. #32

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    I got a 3ml of Cambodian oud oil from Malaysia coming in a few weeks.... hopefully its good stuff... i paid $30 for it
    My Top 10

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    2. Serge Lutens - Muscs Koublai Khan
    3. YSL M7
    4. Serge Lutens - Ambre Sultan
    5. Chanel Egoiste
    6. 24 Gold by Scentstory
    7. Amouage Epic Man
    8. Amouage Jubilation XXV
    9. Bond No. 9 New York Oud
    10. Serge Lutens - Chergui



    "A beautiful fragrance to the nose is like good jazz music to the ears, great food to the mouth, and Megan Fox and Jessica Alba to the eyes..."

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Unlikely, but good luck, probably diluted at best.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Not sure if it's been covered already, but......

    Indian Ouds (most indian ouds, that is) would be so much better if they didn't let the wood rot in stagnant water to make it easier to extract a large volume of Oil. It adds that nasty fungal, rotting, animalic, disgusting borderline fecal top end to the oil. Not my cup of tea at all. I'd go so far as to say Ouds processed in this way are adulterated and of inferior quality. The practice of many indian harvesters and extractors is not done to increase quality, it is done to increase quantity.

    I'd love to smell a batch of good assam oud oil extracted from fresh cut wood, no rotting.

    Cambodian generally isn't allowed to rot prior to oil extraction to my knowledge. Hence, Cambodian generally smelling much cleaner, smoother and tastier.


    if i were ever to pay a princely sum for Oud Oil......under the curreent conditions of the supply line......I'd definitely take Cambodian. but i predict a large drop i nthe value of Oud oils, in say, 20-30 years, when the older generation of Arabs enters old age, at the same time the petroleum age begins to wane in the face of western battery technology and other ingenuity.
    Last edited by DULLAH; 6th April 2013 at 12:08 AM.
    Currently wearing: Royal Mayfair by Creed

  5. #35

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    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    I have a blend of Cambodian oud. It smells very camphorous, medical, coffee-like, fermented wood mulch-y-ish. I was disappointed when I got it, but I tried it anyway. Within a couple days, it clicked and I became a bit addicted to it. It does smell fruity after it "spreads out" on the skin and the air. Even the outside of the tiny crystal bottle smells woody and fruity. Amazing stuff! Now I use it sparingly.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    There are very good smelling oud oils from both regions. Also, there are often quite different smells between oils within each region and I think it is difficult to generalize that all Cambodian smells one way and Indian smells another way. I think both can take some getting used to, depending upon the particular oil. Generally, Indian oud is grassy, warmer and more radiant; Cambodian is woody, sometimes fruity and smokey; Indonesion is more camphorous, green/floral and uplifting. You just got to test em to really know because there is so much variation within a region. I have some outstanding oils from all three regions and also some disappointments.
    SUMMER COLOGNES: Splash of Lemon STH Dior Homme Cologne Boudicea the Victorious Oxford Cedre Atlas Azemour les Orangers Oliver Peoples Sunday Cologne edp Guerlain Homme L'Eau Ginepro di Sardegna Maestrale Iris Nazarena Fitnessence Escentric 02 Daxon Iridium

  7. #37

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    With minimal knowledge about oudh, id like to contribute to one thing,
    I've noticed many people using the word, "Hindi" oudh.
    If this is a term people refer to Indian oudh by, it is incorrect.
    "Hindi" is the language spoken in India, so i dont see how it could be used to describe oudh, unless it has a semantic barrier.
    The word "Indian Oudh" is much more apt.
    Its just like saying, "If oudh grows in America and their language is english, its "English Oudh".
    Correct me if im wrong.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by fraghead93 View Post
    With minimal knowledge about oudh, id like to contribute to one thing,
    I've noticed many people using the word, "Hindi" oudh.
    If this is a term people refer to Indian oudh by, it is incorrect.
    "Hindi" is the language spoken in India, so i dont see how it could be used to describe oudh, unless it has a semantic barrier.
    The word "Indian Oudh" is much more apt.
    Its just like saying, "If oudh grows in America and their language is english, its "English Oudh".
    Correct me if im wrong.
    Valid point but I think the explanation may be simple - that's what Arabs call "Indian". Similarly - Cambodi, Indonesi etc. Since they were the original market for oud, the terminology was borrowed directly from them. Maybe someone who has familiarity with Gulf and Arab in general culture can chime in?

  9. #39

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by fraghead93 View Post
    With minimal knowledge about oudh, id like to contribute to one thing,
    I've noticed many people using the word, "Hindi" oudh.
    If this is a term people refer to Indian oudh by, it is incorrect.
    "Hindi" is the language spoken in India, so i dont see how it could be used to describe oudh, unless it has a semantic barrier.
    The word "Indian Oudh" is much more apt.
    Its just like saying, "If oudh grows in America and their language is english, its "English Oudh".
    Correct me if im wrong.
    in at, India is AlHind.anything Indian is said to be Hindi.

    Japan is Alyaban , anything Japanese is.Yabani.

    Hindi oud means Indian oud.
    for swap/sale:



  10. #40

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Although the original question has mostly been answered, spanning several posts, I'll give my input as well since I have first-hand experience with oud oil distillation.

    First of all we must remember that trees do not abide by man-made "country borders", and so there is indeed a lot of overlap between the scent profiles of ouds from neighboring countries (e.g. India and Bhutan, Cambodia and Thailand, etc..)

    Now having said that, we must keep in mind that the key reasons why one oud oil will smell different from another are:
    1) the country (or more accurately: region), due to the predominant species found there
    2) the country (region), due to the terrain/soil composition/parasitic cultures
    3) the quality of the wood used for distillation (age and concentration of essential oil content)
    4) treatment/seasoning/fermentation of wood (if any) prior to distillation
    5) distillation techniques employed (temperature/pressure, apparatus material, length of distillation, etc.)

    It is because of #4 and #5 that its no surprise that almost every single oud oil you find in the Middle Eastern market smells identical. Virtually all of them smell the same: leathery, pungent, animalic, smoky. And all this is SOLELY because of #4 and #5 (and also the fact that there is not a single big perfume house in the ME which sells only 100% pure oud oils, and the chemicals that are used by all the different companies there, to enhance oud oils are the same, and thus trying to discern "Indian" vs "Cambodian" is meaningless).

    But if optimal distillation preferences are employed for #4 and #5 then believe it or not, but you can actually guess correctly not only what country an oud oil is from, but in fact the region as well.
    e.g. "Manipur, India", "Malakka, peninsular Malaysia", "Sarawak, Borneo Island, Malaysia", and so on..

    To be able to do this though, the oil has to be high quality. If it isn't, then there's no difference between "Indian", "Cambodian", "Indonesian", etc..

    By the way, hedonist is quite correct about the cross-cultivation of foreign species in different countries. You can now buy 'Cambodian' oud oils distilled from trees whose saplings were important from Cambodia, but grown in Java, Indonesia. Or 'Indian' oud which is actually Thai, and so on.. And that 'Cambodian' will indeed smell pretty 'Cambodian', but with some differences.

    Ultimately it boils down to the species. A quick sniff of a Crassna oil will immediately tell you its Crassna. A Filaria oil is unmistakably Filaria. Things like altitude, soil composition etc only 'enhance' the core scent profile. And the core scent profile is a result of the species of the agarwood tree.

    I have left out some stuff which complicates matters (like the nature of the inoculate used, if the tree is cultivated and not wild, fungus strains that trigger different resin productions, etc..). But all that I have stated above should answer the original poster's question. ANd hopefully not just made matters more confusing!! : )

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zain Mahmood View Post
    ...which one is considered to be better?
    Here's what you need to consider:
    1) purity (99% are adulterated)
    2) were the trees used for distillation wild or cultivated? (99% are cultivated)
    3) quality of the feedstock (i.e. darker wood rich with E.O. content, vs white bunk wood) (99% are from bunk wood)
    4) treatment of the feedstock prior to distillation (if any) (99% are fermented, and thus have the barnyard note)
    5) how optimal were the distillation techniques (99% of the time, the worst techniques are employed, for economic reasons).
    Last edited by tahasyed; 9th April 2013 at 02:29 PM.

  11. #41

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    tahasyed, how are the grade oil level determined? Grade A, B , C, D.... which oil grade is the best grade? Are the lower grades mixed with jojaba oil?




    Quote Originally Posted by tahasyed View Post
    Although the original question has mostly been answered, spanning several posts, I'll give my input as well since I have first-hand experience with oud oil distillation.

    First of all we must remember that trees do not abide by man-made "country borders", and so there is indeed a lot of overlap between the scent profiles of ouds from neighboring countries (e.g. India and Bhutan, Cambodia and Thailand, etc..)

    Now having said that, we must keep in mind that the key reasons why one oud oil will smell different from another are:
    1) the country (or more accurately: region), due to the predominant species found there
    2) the country (region), due to the terrain/soil composition/parasitic cultures
    3) the quality of the wood used for distillation (age and concentration of essential oil content)
    4) treatment/seasoning/fermentation of wood (if any) prior to distillation
    5) distillation techniques employed (temperature/pressure, apparatus material, length of distillation, etc.)

    It is because of #4 and #5 that its no surprise that almost every single oud oil you find in the Middle Eastern market smells identical. Virtually all of them smell the same: leathery, pungent, animalic, smoky. And all this is SOLELY because of #4 and #5 (and also the fact that there is not a single big perfume house in the ME which sells only 100% pure oud oils, and the chemicals that are used by all the different companies there, to enhance oud oils are the same, and thus trying to discent "Indian" vs "Cambodian" is meaningless).

    But if optimal distillation preferences are employed for #4 and #5 then believe it or not, but you can actually guess correctly not only what country an oud oil is from, but in fact the region as well.
    e.g. "Manipur, India", "Malakka, peninsular Malaysia", "Sarawak, Borneo Island, Malaysia", and so on..

    To be able to do this though, the oil has to be high quality. If it isn't, then there's no difference between "Indian", "Cambodian", "Indonesian", etc..

    By the way, hedonist is quite correct about the cross-cultivation of foreign species in different countries. You can now buy 'Cambodian' oud oils distilled from trees whose saplings were important from Cambodia, but grown in Java, Indonesia. Or 'Indian' oud which is actually Thai, and so on.. And that 'Cambodian' will indeed smell pretty 'Cambodian', but with some differences.

    Ultimately it boils down to the species. A quick sniff of a Crassna oil will immediately tell you its Crassna. A Filaria oil is unmistakably Filaria. Things like altitude, soil composition etc only 'enhance' the core scent profile. And the core scent profile is a result of the species of the agarwood tree.

    I have left out some stuff which complicates matters (like the nature of the inoculate used, if the tree is cultivated and not wild, fungus strains that trigger different resin productions, etc..). But all that I have stated above should answer the original poster's question. ANd hopefully not just made matters more confusing!! : )

    - - - Updated - - -


    Here's what you need to consider:
    1) purity (99% are adulterated)
    2) were the trees used for distillation wild or cultivated? (99% are cultivated)
    3) quality of the feedstock (i.e. darker wood rich with E.O. content, vs white bunk wood) (99% are from bunk wood)
    4) treatment of the feedstock prior to distillation (if any) (99% are fermented, and thus have the barnyard note)
    5) how optimal were the distillation techniques (99% of the time, the worst techniques are employed, for economic reasons).
    My Top 10

    1. Amouage Homage Attar
    2. Serge Lutens - Muscs Koublai Khan
    3. YSL M7
    4. Serge Lutens - Ambre Sultan
    5. Chanel Egoiste
    6. 24 Gold by Scentstory
    7. Amouage Epic Man
    8. Amouage Jubilation XXV
    9. Bond No. 9 New York Oud
    10. Serge Lutens - Chergui



    "A beautiful fragrance to the nose is like good jazz music to the ears, great food to the mouth, and Megan Fox and Jessica Alba to the eyes..."

  12. #42

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    I have both Cambodian and Indian oud bottles, initially I preferred the Cambodian, it is more pretty, but the Indian oud is more complex and has more depth, well for me.

  13. #43

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by change1 View Post
    tahasyed, how are the grade oil level determined? Grade A, B , C, D.... which oil grade is the best grade? Are the lower grades mixed with jojaba oil?
    When it comes to grading oils in the manner of "A, B, C", "AAAA, AAA, AA, A, BBB", etc, it is highly subjective. Every distiller will have his own standards - the higher up in the alphabet, the better. But one seller's "C" could be leagues ahead of another one's "A".

    In the case of oud/agarwood (the wood), its very easy to tell high quality from low quality, based on quantitative factors (e.g. heaviness, resin concentration, minimal bunk wood, etc.), but its trickier when it comes to oud oil.
    And so, quality can only be determined by the points I mentioned earlier:
    1) purity (and to answer your question, jojoba oil and other cutting agents are very commonly used)
    2) were the trees used for distillation wild or cultivated?
    3) quality of the feedstock (i.e. darker wood rich with E.O. content, vs white bunk wood)
    4) treatment of the feedstock prior to distillation (if any)
    5) how optimal were the distillation techniques.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by vinramani09 View Post
    I have both Cambodian and Indian oud bottles, initially I preferred the Cambodian, it is more pretty, but the Indian oud is more complex and has more depth, well for me.
    Yeah, that is very common! : )
    Indian ouds have an amazing drydown. Rich, spicy, sweet, creamy-woody... and in my opinion the finest of all drydowns. Cambodian/Thai ouds are typically more about the top and heart notes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    By the way, in case any of you are wondering what kind of oud is used in mainstream western perfumery, then there's two main types of oud:

    1) synthetic: this is the most common. Typically, it captures only 1 facet of only 1 genre, namely the Indo-Chinese agarwood genre. There are 4-5 main genres, and each genre has tons of facets and nuances.

    2) bunk wood extract: remember, it takes many decades for a tree to produce high quality oleoresin (the darker patches of fragrant compounds in the tree). The demand of the perfumery industry far outweighs the supply, so something obviously has to be done. As a result, white/non-resinated/bunk wood is distilled at an extremely high temperature which extracts the essential oil from the wood, and not the oleoresin (Please see the attachment for reference). The extracted oil is pungent, harsh, and that which is typically thought of as 'the oud note' in oud frags. As bad as it may be compared to 'real oud oil' (oleoresin extract), its still better than the synthetic counterpart.
    Bunk wood extract is typically used in more expensive frags. As for high quality "real oud oil", then absolutely no mainstream frags contain it. Or if they do, they'll maybe put a drop in, just so they can advertise it. And I don't blame them. Its just far too expensive to use real oud oil, and there simply aren't enough trees in the world to produce enough of it.

    BN.jpg
    Last edited by tahasyed; 9th April 2013 at 02:28 PM.

  14. #44

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Taha. Thank you for these details of "how things are made" in the oud business. Your time taken to reflect and elucidate on this subject is greatly valued here. This type of behind the scenes information is more interesting to we consumers of oud perfume products than you might realize. I have been acquiring oud for years and I read a lot of information in groups and blogs etc. but I learned more from your two posts above than I could have gathered on my own. Great post!
    SUMMER COLOGNES: Splash of Lemon STH Dior Homme Cologne Boudicea the Victorious Oxford Cedre Atlas Azemour les Orangers Oliver Peoples Sunday Cologne edp Guerlain Homme L'Eau Ginepro di Sardegna Maestrale Iris Nazarena Fitnessence Escentric 02 Daxon Iridium

  15. #45

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    You're welcome, Buzzlepuff! I'm glad you found the information useful. : )

    By the way, I do not want to come off as an elitist who has only negative things to say about mainstream oud frags. On the contrary, I think many of them are works of art! Its just that there are a lot of misconceptions out there, and many times we may think a particular 'note' is oud when its not.
    I know you have a fantastic collection of high quality oud oils- and it seems your thoughts on mainstream oud frags are the same as mine: they don't compare to pure oud oils. But some do indeed wonderful, and they should be enjoyed for what they are.

  16. #46

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Is there are big difference between Laos and Cambodian oud? Kurkdjan in his latest Oud line is using Laos. Best oud I've smelled to date.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Anyone tried this?

    Dhen Al Oud Safa/ASAQ
    Glorious Pure
    Cambodi Oudh
    Agarwood oil – aged
    10 years, not
    smoked.

    Rouh Al Oud also aged Cambodi?
    Last edited by outline; 15th April 2013 at 01:30 AM.

  17. #47

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Yes, Laotian oud is more 'primal' and raw, whereas 'Cambodian' (although technically it would be Thai, as 99.99% of so-called Cambodian oils are actually oils extracted from trees grown in Thailand; trees that grew from Cambodian seeds) oils are generally fruity.
    Of course, this differentiation only exists in the world of high quality distillations. Otherwise, they'll both smell the same.

    From the frags you listed above, I've tried 2 or 3. Nothing worth writing home about, I'm afraid!

  18. #48
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    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge @Tahasyed.

  19. #49

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by tahasyed View Post
    Here's what you need to consider:
    1) purity (99% are adulterated)
    2) were the trees used for distillation wild or cultivated? (99% are cultivated)
    3) quality of the feedstock (i.e. darker wood rich with E.O. content, vs white bunk wood) (99% are from bunk wood)
    4) treatment of the feedstock prior to distillation (if any) (99% are fermented, and thus have the barnyard note)
    5) how optimal were the distillation techniques (99% of the time, the worst techniques are employed, for economic reasons).
    What's your proof for these numbers ? After all you sell oud online and these "facts" could apply to your oud as well ....

  20. #50
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    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    I think you'll find that the general consensus is that Taha's (& Ensar's) oils, amongst others, are not adulterated.

    If you have something positive to contribute to the discussion, please do so.

  21. #51

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    I think you'll find that the general consensus is that Taha's (& Ensar's) oils, amongst others, are not adulterated.

    If you have something positive to contribute to the discussion, please do so.
    I never said they're adulterated , and i wouldn't dare to say that without proof , that's my point here , why accuse others with such exact numbers like : "99%" ?

  22. #52
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    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Apologies - in my very limited experience, the majority of oils purchased from a number of sources have been, at best, diluted - in such a rare commodity purity with quality is uncommon.

    I'm sure that others can add to this.
    Last edited by lpp; 1st May 2013 at 06:47 PM.

  23. #53

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    i have both Indian and Cambodian oud and Cambodian oud is far batter then Indian oud as i see.

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