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  1. #1

    Default Cambodian and indian oud

    Is there a difference between how Cambodian and Indian oud smell? What is the difference and which one is considered to be better?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    I'm sure Oud experts can shed more knowledge on this. I have fragrances in my collection with oud originating from both areas (according to the company). I have a very tough time differentiating between them. I have read that Cambodian oud is highly sought after, but don't know for sure.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Off the top of my head, Cambodian is usually sweet and fruity (think plums, figs and peaches), with various nuances such as spices and tobacco (depending on the type of Cambodian oud). It's probably the most popular oud variety, is easier to enjoy but is also rather complex.

    Indian, on the other hand, is animal farmyard territory and screams fecal - sometimes the opening even smells like vomit! It's less 'offensive' as it further develops on the skin (i.e. less loud) and has a warm hay-like aura. The most challenging variety and, thus, the least preferred. I don't think it's simply because of personal preference - it's also extremely difficult to wear in public... the uninitiated just won't understand.

    Anyway, my knowledge is rather limited. But that's what immediately springs to mind.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    The expert and the Arab BNers should chime in. As others were saying, Indian ouds tend to be more animalic. But as usual, there's a lot of variability within each region. I had the impression that in Arabian countries the Indian variety is more sought after, but I could be wrong here.

    cacio

  5. #5

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    It's not the country of origin that matters but the type of tree. India and Cambodia are identical in terms of climate , soil and other geographic characteristics. The best Oud oil is seyoofi and sheyookhi whether the tree is cultivated in Cambodia, India or Bangladesh.

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  6. #6

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Thanks for the explanation!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post
    It's not the country of origin that matters but the type of tree. India and Cambodia are identical in terms of climate , soil and other geographic characteristics. The best Oud oil is seyoofi and sheyookhi whether the tree is cultivated in Cambodia, India or Bangladesh.
    great, as always, Saif! clear and succinct.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    So Rasasi has an oil named "Oud Seuofi".So would that mean the oud is from the seoufi agarwood or is that just a name? Has anyone tried it?Feedback?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post
    It's not the country of origin that matters but the type of tree. India and Cambodia are identical in terms of climate , soil and other geographic characteristics. The best Oud oil is seyoofi and sheyookhi whether the tree is cultivated in Cambodia, India or Bangladesh.
    I would respectfully disagree. For one thing, there are different speicies of agarwood that are harvested in different parts of Asia, a typical Indian scent profile is often associated with oil extracted from the Agallocha subspecies while what most would recognize as a Cambodian oud often comes from Crassna. I can see how a "Hindi" and a "Cambodi" oud can be thought of as having something in common (however loosely such a connection is defined) but I don't think it's that difficult to tell the two apart, particularly if they happen to be high quality and extracted by a distiller who knows what they are doing.

    There's just no way someone could mistake Oriscent's Caramel, AgarAura's Royale or ASAQ's Thaqeel for anything other than Cambodian oils. Similarily, I doubt that Oriscent's Nuh, AgarAura's Purana or ASAQ's Kalakassi can be mistaken for oils originating from somewhere other than India. Of course, this wouldn't be the case for oils that are not single-source distillations or are just outright blends, but for good quality pure single-source artisanal oils it's very hard to confuse Cambodi's with Hindi's.

    I personally vastly prefer Cambodian oils, they are sweet, yummy and far friendlier and more suited to wear around the un-initated, while the Indian ones tend to be more stern, uncompromising, and challenging to pull off in a typical Western office environment (that includes even the non-fecal and non- or very slightly barnyardy ones mentioned above). But this is just my personal opinion of course and should be taken with a grain of salt.

    To the original poster - I would recommend getting samples from Oriscent (now called Ensar Oud) or AgarAura and seeing for yourself. No matter how many other people's opinions you will read, you need to try the oils yourself to figure out what scent profiles work for you. There is also a huge variation of prices on different oils, some people will prefer to pay a few thousand dollars for nothing but absolute best, others find it acceptable to settle for slightly or somewhat lesser oils but which cost only a fraction of the price of the top ones. This is another personal preference that you will need to establish for yourself.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    I personally like Cambodi oud , but certain Assamese Ouds do grow on you and have depth. Historically speaking it is the Indian/Assamese or Agallocha variety which is held in high regard, but personally speaking I have an attar from Abdul Samad Al Qurashi which I got when I was in Jeddah, a blend of Cambodi and Assamese, love it!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    I agree with Igor. I own a lot of different pure oud oils and Cambodi and Indian ouds are very different. Cambodis are easier to wear. Indian ouds take time to get used to but are very comforing and uplifting. I usually only wear them at home. I also highly recommend Oriscent and Agaraura. They have good educational informational on oud on their websites also. Oudhasi.com has good information too but for some reason seem to not be selling anymore.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Notwithstanding the expert advice of Igor01, to whom I yield complete deference, I have found, in my rather limited experience, Cambodian Oud tends to be very sweet, with some fruitiness and earthiness, as well as woodsy, whereas Indian Oud tends to be sweet, spicy and woodsy ...

  13. #13

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Borneo are even easier then cambos to pull off to the unfamiliar.

    hey what kinda oud does montale use in their ouds? lol oh wait I meant aoud
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Hey I just figured out what kind is in montale. must be from the same stock that sells on ebay for $5 a gallon.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by dredmahawkus View Post
    Hey I just figured out what kind is in montale. must be from the same stock that sells on ebay for $5 a gallon.
    Montale does not use real oud oil, they use synthetic oud accords, but I could care less, most of their fragrances are stellar.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by dredmahawkus View Post
    hey what kinda oud does montale use in their ouds? lol oh wait I meant aoud
    On Luckyscent, Montale Aoud Lime says it contains "Aoud from the Pakistan."
    I have never heard of any oud from Pakistan.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    As I have little experience in ouds, I was thinking about starting off with something relatively cheap. I have pinpointed the following:

    Rasasi : Oud Seoufi, Oud Cambodi
    Ajmal : Dahn al oud atheer, Dahn al oud Jazaab
    Syed Junaid : Oud Cambodi, Dahn al oud (combodi+hindi mix)

    Which one should I go for?

    Thanks in advance

  18. #18

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    As I have little experience in ouds, I was thinking about starting off with something relatively cheap. I have pinpointed the following:

    Rasasi : Oud Seoufi, Oud Cambodi
    Ajmal : Dahn al oud atheer, Dahn al oud Jazaab
    Syed Junaid : Oud Cambodi, Dahn al oud (combodi+hindi mix)

    Which one should I go for?

    Thanks in advance

  19. #19

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Igor01 View Post
    I would respectfully disagree. For one thing, there are different speicies of agarwood that are harvested in different parts of Asia, a typical Indian scent profile is often associated with oil extracted from the Agallocha subspecies while what most would recognize as a Cambodian oud often comes from Crassna.

    I never said there was only one species of oud tree. In fact I said there are several species.
    I cannot see what you are respectfully disagreeing with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Igor01 View Post
    I can see how a "Hindi" and a "Cambodi" oud can be thought of as having something in common (however loosely such a connection is defined) but I don't think it's that difficult to tell the two apart, particularly if they happen to be high quality and extracted by a distiller who knows what they are doing.
    I never said that Hindi and Cambowdi can be thought of as smelling the same.
    So far I cannot see what you are respectfully disagreeing with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Igor01 View Post
    There's just no way someone could mistake Oriscent's Caramel, AgarAura's Royale or ASAQ's Thaqeel for anything other than Cambodian oils. Similarily, I doubt that Oriscent's Nuh, AgarAura's Purana or ASAQ's Kalakassi can be mistaken for oils originating from somewhere other than India. Of course, this wouldn't be the case for oils that are not single-source distillations or are just outright blends, but for good quality pure single-source artisanal oils it's very hard to confuse Cambodi's with Hindi's.
    I never said Oriscent or the other commercial ouds you mentioned could be confused with each other.
    Again, what are you respectfully disagreeing with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Igor01 View Post
    I personally vastly prefer Cambodian oils, they are sweet, yummy and far friendlier and more suited to wear around the un-initated, while the Indian ones tend to be more stern, uncompromising, and challenging to pull off in a typical Western office environment (that includes even the non-fecal and non- or very slightly barnyardy ones mentioned above). But this is just my personal opinion of course and should be taken with a grain of salt.



    To the original poster - I would recommend getting samples from Oriscent (now called Ensar Oud) or AgarAura and seeing for yourself. No matter how many other people's opinions you will read, you need to try the oils yourself to figure out what scent profiles work for you. There is also a huge variation of prices on different oils, some people will prefer to pay a few thousand dollars for nothing but absolute best, others find it acceptable to settle for slightly or somewhat lesser oils but which cost only a fraction of the price of the top ones. This is another personal preference that you will need to establish for yourself.
    What are you respectfully disagreeing?
    My statement was that country of origin doesn't matter as much as the type of tree from which the oud is extracted.

    Did you forget to state what you respectfully disagree with?
    Last edited by hedonist222; 3rd December 2011 at 05:38 PM.

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  20. #20

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    different agarwood trees dont grow in the same areas. certain species grow in certain areas.
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  21. #21

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Hedonist222, my apologies if I have misunderstood your post. I am used to oud classification based on species and geographical region, and much less so with traditional Middle Eastern one. How would you describe seyoofi and sheyookhi? Do these refer to specific scent profile?

  22. #22

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Igor01 View Post
    Hedonist222, my apologies if I have misunderstood your post. I am used to oud classification based on species and geographical region, and much less so with traditional Middle Eastern one. How would you describe seyoofi and sheyookhi? Do these refer to specific scent profile?
    Im not very interested in the species or origin because as I said it doesnt matter much as much as the end product which I assess with my nose not the story behind it. Unfortunately the indian sellers here talk bull**** 101% of the time so their word is no good. Majority of people here assess with their noses because, like wine, the particular seasonal harvest differs from one year to another and from one species to another. The one we loved last year may not yield the best results this year.
    Last edited by hedonist222; 3rd December 2011 at 08:18 PM.

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  23. #23

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post
    Im not very interested in the species or origin because as I said it doesnt matter much as much as the end product which I assess with my nose not the story behind it. Unfortunately the indian sellers here talk bull**** 101% of the time so there word is no good. Majority of people here assess with their noses because, like wine, the particular seasonal harvest differs from one year to another and from one species to another. The one we loved last year may not yield the best results this year.
    I can understand that but I am wondering if you could describe seyoofi and sheyookhi, what are some of the traits of their scent profiles that make them recognizable as such? For example, even a very inexperienced oud lover should have no problem picking the typical "Cambodi" notes, are there such unique notes or some other characteristics that would make one recognize seyoofi and sheyookhi and tell them apart from whatever else?

  24. #24

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    I have an ASAQ I paid $800 for....is it good? what species is it?
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  25. #25

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    [QUOTE=hedonist222;2364916]It's not the country of origin that matters but the type of tree.QUOTE]

    I disagree with this.
    The country of origin does matter because only certain types of trees grow in certain countries. The agarwood trees in India are a different species than Cambodian agarwood trees. The original poster's question was "Is there a difference between how Cambodian and Indian oud smell." My answer is yes Indian ouds and Cambodian ouds definitely have different scent profiles. Yes there are high quality and low quality ouds from both regions that you do assess with your nose, but to say that the country of origin doesn't matter is misleading. Indian vs Cambodian vs Borneo have very different scent profiles and it is because different species grow in different regions.
    I'm also interested in what seyoofi and sheyooki mean in regards to how the ouds smell.
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  26. #26

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    [QUOTE=AZsmells;2366769]
    Quote Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post
    It's not the country of origin that matters but the type of tree.QUOTE]

    I disagree with this.
    The country of origin does matter because only certain types of trees grow in certain countries. The agarwood trees in India are a different species than Cambodian agarwood trees. The original poster's question was "Is there a difference between how Cambodian and Indian oud smell." My answer is yes Indian ouds and Cambodian ouds definitely have different scent profiles. Yes there are high quality and low quality ouds from both regions that you do assess with your nose, but to say that the country of origin doesn't matter is misleading. Indian vs Cambodian vs Borneo have very different scent profiles and it is because different species grow in different regions.
    I'm also interested in what seyoofi and sheyooki mean in regards to how the ouds smell.
    Lately I've had sellers (competent) not regular blabber mouth incompetent SAs tell me that harvesters are now growing all species in India , Cambodia and Borneo because the tree
    species is able to thrive on those soils and is not not bound by political boundaries.
    That's why I say country of origin no longer matters. What matters is which scent you prefer and to seek the best harvest from it.
    Last edited by hedonist222; 3rd December 2011 at 10:09 PM.

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  27. #27

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    you mean they dont all smell like ajmals? ok no more kidding around.

    hedonist- the stuff you buy from ASAQ Ajmal arabian oud rassai ect ect is all crap. you have to spend like $3000 per tola to get an oud even close to a $200 bottle from agar aura or oriscent.
    they sell single origin ouds. meaning they get some tree in a jungle somewhere in borneo and make oud oil out of the remains after they take the heaviest woods for chips to burn.
    no when you get a tree from Borneo you can tell the oil is from borneo.....it has a slight gasoline note that sparkles and turns into a woody sweet vanilla.
    when you get a tree from india it smells like hay and a bit fecal.
    now the better the quality you can tell by how it sparkles and how smooth it is and complex.

    the oud they use in perfumes/oud oils in the middle east like ajmal and Abdul Samad al Qurashi are mostly blended ouds of cambodian and hindi. they blend it till they get a smell they like. they then blend other perfumes with the oil to fit a certain scent they are trying to achieve.
    the ouds you buy on agaraura and oriscent there is nothing added to them. they make oil from the wood age the oil a bit and theres your oud.
    once you smelled one from them and smelled one from Ajmal you would never buy one again. well I shouldnt say that you might like how that smells.
    I like cambodians the best because of their complexity. Borneos are less complex but a little easier on the nose of people who havent smelled real ouds.
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  28. #28

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by dredmahawkus View Post
    you mean they dont all smell like ajmals? ok no more kidding around.

    hedonist- the stuff you buy from ASAQ Ajmal arabian oud rassai ect ect is all crap. you have to spend like $3000 per tola to get an oud even close to a $200 bottle from agar aura or oriscent.
    they sell single origin ouds. meaning they get some tree in a jungle somewhere in borneo and make oud oil out of the remains after they take the heaviest woods for chips to burn.
    no when you get a tree from Borneo you can tell the oil is from borneo.....it has a slight gasoline note that sparkles and turns into a woody sweet vanilla.
    when you get a tree from india it smells like hay and a bit fecal.
    now the better the quality you can tell by how it sparkles and how smooth it is and complex.

    the oud they use in perfumes/oud oils in the middle east like ajmal and Abdul Samad al Qurashi are mostly blended ouds of cambodian and hindi. they blend it till they get a smell they like. they then blend other perfumes with the oil to fit a certain scent they are trying to achieve.
    the ouds you buy on agaraura and oriscent there is nothing added to them. they make oil from the wood age the oil a bit and theres your oud.
    once you smelled one from them and smelled one from Ajmal you would never buy one again. well I shouldnt say that you might like how that smells.
    I like cambodians the best because of their complexity. Borneos are less complex but a little easier on the nose of people who havent smelled real ouds.

    Yes they fool us with $2,000 oud when it can easily be had for of the price.
    Maybe they inflate their prices because the consumer generally tends to be on the wealthier side of the spectrum but I doubt it's a 10,000% inflation as you suggest.

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  29. #29

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Interesting discussion this. I guess over and done with but here's my 2 scented chips:

    Zain Mahmood asked 2 questions

    ---Is there a difference between how Cambodian and Indian oud smell?
    ---What is the difference and which one is considered to be better?

    The first question is easier answered and I think both Igor and Hedonist responded to one of the 2 respectively.

    Igor to the first with his (to my experience) accurate and valuable exposition (not the first : ) of the respective scent profiles of the 2 regions. Trebor's was a nice one too and to add to it, some Indian's have departed from the dung and hay farm backdrop, taking up more palatial quarters.

    The 2nd question is quite the vexed one. Best in terms of what? Quality or Smell (universal acceptance, courting, working at office or farm, parachuting or prostrating) or Price or Ethics or Profits ... ? Adding the term 'considered' makes answering considerably easier (Thankfully Zain Mahmood was thoughtful to do so : ) yet, it's still a flip from Hindi to Combodi and back again atleast half as many times as the number of respondents interrogated.

    Hedonist's response I think encapsulates a particular meaning of the appraisal 'Best' as it is made to denote higher quality in the gulf market. I've found oils labelled Seufi generally selling for lesser than those labelled Shuyooki but both at the upper end. Both terms as most Oudbuffs know possibly hold technical meanings( Hedonist, Igor asked this as well, do you know what additonally these labels signify aside arm & leg prices?). Also known is the existence of other terms tagged to high Q oils viz. Qadeem and Moattaq.

    If pricing is to suggest anything then generally speaking top Hindi's are priced higher than top Cambodi's. What does that reflect? Quality? Arab demand based on perception/preference? Nation-wise cost of oil production? All of that and more? If demand then you have one answer to the 'Considered' appended question from one segment of the oud market. The unqualified 'best' question however still necessarily remains at large.

    If 'quality' commands the price in gulf lands and if that is meant in terms of what's best then in a certain sense, geography doesn't matter, as Hedonist points out as long as quality wood and sound distillation technique is used. Oils coming from all regions could be of high quality. At the same time though it is possible, percentage wise there maybe higher volume of higher quality from certain regions compared to others for a variety of reasons, primarily of which, depletion. That's all theoretical, practically though how usual is the practice of using higher quality wood for oils? Isn't it mostly bunkwood streaked here n there that gets tossed in the stills. Sorry going off on major tangents now, but just wanted to point out these distinctions.

    On a final note, both Igor and Hedonist rightfully suggest: Depends on what you prefer.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    there are great parallels between oud and whisky.

    there are peaty whiskies outside of islay there are smooth whiskies from islay.
    then there are japanese scotches.

    of course speaking about them separately, by batch even, makes more sense. then you should better talk about their distinct qualities. that said, when someone says they prefer islay whiskies, you can understand what they mean by that. no need to be over-analytical.

    my .02

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Firstly I'd like to correct a view from some who said indian oud smells like farms (don't be thick headed and make the comparison without even smelling the thing) Indian oud is sweet and doesn't have that sharp edge character like Cambodian oud so its not that stingy to the nose(with the more woodsy feel that is), though Indian ouds are no doubt louder than Cambodian ouds, In western cultures Cambodian oud would be preferred just because of that reason.

    Secondly Indian ouds are more in demand in arab cultures proof being they scent the mosque of the holy prophet(pbuh) with Indian oud incense (which is quite good as its preferred over the Saudi oud itself).

  32. #32

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    I got a 3ml of Cambodian oud oil from Malaysia coming in a few weeks.... hopefully its good stuff... i paid $30 for it
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  33. #33

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Unlikely, but good luck, probably diluted at best.

  34. #34

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Not sure if it's been covered already, but......

    Indian Ouds (most indian ouds, that is) would be so much better if they didn't let the wood rot in stagnant water to make it easier to extract a large volume of Oil. It adds that nasty fungal, rotting, animalic, disgusting borderline fecal top end to the oil. Not my cup of tea at all. I'd go so far as to say Ouds processed in this way are adulterated and of inferior quality. The practice of many indian harvesters and extractors is not done to increase quality, it is done to increase quantity.

    I'd love to smell a batch of good assam oud oil extracted from fresh cut wood, no rotting.

    Cambodian generally isn't allowed to rot prior to oil extraction to my knowledge. Hence, Cambodian generally smelling much cleaner, smoother and tastier.


    if i were ever to pay a princely sum for Oud Oil......under the curreent conditions of the supply line......I'd definitely take Cambodian. but i predict a large drop i nthe value of Oud oils, in say, 20-30 years, when the older generation of Arabs enters old age, at the same time the petroleum age begins to wane in the face of western battery technology and other ingenuity.
    Last edited by DULLAH; 6th April 2013 at 12:08 AM.

  35. #35

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    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    I have a blend of Cambodian oud. It smells very camphorous, medical, coffee-like, fermented wood mulch-y-ish. I was disappointed when I got it, but I tried it anyway. Within a couple days, it clicked and I became a bit addicted to it. It does smell fruity after it "spreads out" on the skin and the air. Even the outside of the tiny crystal bottle smells woody and fruity. Amazing stuff! Now I use it sparingly.

  36. #36

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    There are very good smelling oud oils from both regions. Also, there are often quite different smells between oils within each region and I think it is difficult to generalize that all Cambodian smells one way and Indian smells another way. I think both can take some getting used to, depending upon the particular oil. Generally, Indian oud is grassy, warmer and more radiant; Cambodian is woody, sometimes fruity and smokey; Indonesion is more camphorous, green/floral and uplifting. You just got to test em to really know because there is so much variation within a region. I have some outstanding oils from all three regions and also some disappointments.

  37. #37

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    With minimal knowledge about oudh, id like to contribute to one thing,
    I've noticed many people using the word, "Hindi" oudh.
    If this is a term people refer to Indian oudh by, it is incorrect.
    "Hindi" is the language spoken in India, so i dont see how it could be used to describe oudh, unless it has a semantic barrier.
    The word "Indian Oudh" is much more apt.
    Its just like saying, "If oudh grows in America and their language is english, its "English Oudh".
    Correct me if im wrong.

  38. #38

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by fraghead93 View Post
    With minimal knowledge about oudh, id like to contribute to one thing,
    I've noticed many people using the word, "Hindi" oudh.
    If this is a term people refer to Indian oudh by, it is incorrect.
    "Hindi" is the language spoken in India, so i dont see how it could be used to describe oudh, unless it has a semantic barrier.
    The word "Indian Oudh" is much more apt.
    Its just like saying, "If oudh grows in America and their language is english, its "English Oudh".
    Correct me if im wrong.
    Valid point but I think the explanation may be simple - that's what Arabs call "Indian". Similarly - Cambodi, Indonesi etc. Since they were the original market for oud, the terminology was borrowed directly from them. Maybe someone who has familiarity with Gulf and Arab in general culture can chime in?

  39. #39

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by fraghead93 View Post
    With minimal knowledge about oudh, id like to contribute to one thing,
    I've noticed many people using the word, "Hindi" oudh.
    If this is a term people refer to Indian oudh by, it is incorrect.
    "Hindi" is the language spoken in India, so i dont see how it could be used to describe oudh, unless it has a semantic barrier.
    The word "Indian Oudh" is much more apt.
    Its just like saying, "If oudh grows in America and their language is english, its "English Oudh".
    Correct me if im wrong.
    in at, India is AlHind.anything Indian is said to be Hindi.

    Japan is Alyaban , anything Japanese is.Yabani.

    Hindi oud means Indian oud.

    for swap/sale:





  40. #40

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Although the original question has mostly been answered, spanning several posts, I'll give my input as well since I have first-hand experience with oud oil distillation.

    First of all we must remember that trees do not abide by man-made "country borders", and so there is indeed a lot of overlap between the scent profiles of ouds from neighboring countries (e.g. India and Bhutan, Cambodia and Thailand, etc..)

    Now having said that, we must keep in mind that the key reasons why one oud oil will smell different from another are:
    1) the country (or more accurately: region), due to the predominant species found there
    2) the country (region), due to the terrain/soil composition/parasitic cultures
    3) the quality of the wood used for distillation (age and concentration of essential oil content)
    4) treatment/seasoning/fermentation of wood (if any) prior to distillation
    5) distillation techniques employed (temperature/pressure, apparatus material, length of distillation, etc.)

    It is because of #4 and #5 that its no surprise that almost every single oud oil you find in the Middle Eastern market smells identical. Virtually all of them smell the same: leathery, pungent, animalic, smoky. And all this is SOLELY because of #4 and #5 (and also the fact that there is not a single big perfume house in the ME which sells only 100% pure oud oils, and the chemicals that are used by all the different companies there, to enhance oud oils are the same, and thus trying to discern "Indian" vs "Cambodian" is meaningless).

    But if optimal distillation preferences are employed for #4 and #5 then believe it or not, but you can actually guess correctly not only what country an oud oil is from, but in fact the region as well.
    e.g. "Manipur, India", "Malakka, peninsular Malaysia", "Sarawak, Borneo Island, Malaysia", and so on..

    To be able to do this though, the oil has to be high quality. If it isn't, then there's no difference between "Indian", "Cambodian", "Indonesian", etc..

    By the way, hedonist is quite correct about the cross-cultivation of foreign species in different countries. You can now buy 'Cambodian' oud oils distilled from trees whose saplings were important from Cambodia, but grown in Java, Indonesia. Or 'Indian' oud which is actually Thai, and so on.. And that 'Cambodian' will indeed smell pretty 'Cambodian', but with some differences.

    Ultimately it boils down to the species. A quick sniff of a Crassna oil will immediately tell you its Crassna. A Filaria oil is unmistakably Filaria. Things like altitude, soil composition etc only 'enhance' the core scent profile. And the core scent profile is a result of the species of the agarwood tree.

    I have left out some stuff which complicates matters (like the nature of the inoculate used, if the tree is cultivated and not wild, fungus strains that trigger different resin productions, etc..). But all that I have stated above should answer the original poster's question. ANd hopefully not just made matters more confusing!! : )

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zain Mahmood View Post
    ...which one is considered to be better?
    Here's what you need to consider:
    1) purity (99% are adulterated)
    2) were the trees used for distillation wild or cultivated? (99% are cultivated)
    3) quality of the feedstock (i.e. darker wood rich with E.O. content, vs white bunk wood) (99% are from bunk wood)
    4) treatment of the feedstock prior to distillation (if any) (99% are fermented, and thus have the barnyard note)
    5) how optimal were the distillation techniques (99% of the time, the worst techniques are employed, for economic reasons).
    Last edited by tahasyed; 9th April 2013 at 02:29 PM.

  41. #41

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    tahasyed, how are the grade oil level determined? Grade A, B , C, D.... which oil grade is the best grade? Are the lower grades mixed with jojaba oil?




    Quote Originally Posted by tahasyed View Post
    Although the original question has mostly been answered, spanning several posts, I'll give my input as well since I have first-hand experience with oud oil distillation.

    First of all we must remember that trees do not abide by man-made "country borders", and so there is indeed a lot of overlap between the scent profiles of ouds from neighboring countries (e.g. India and Bhutan, Cambodia and Thailand, etc..)

    Now having said that, we must keep in mind that the key reasons why one oud oil will smell different from another are:
    1) the country (or more accurately: region), due to the predominant species found there
    2) the country (region), due to the terrain/soil composition/parasitic cultures
    3) the quality of the wood used for distillation (age and concentration of essential oil content)
    4) treatment/seasoning/fermentation of wood (if any) prior to distillation
    5) distillation techniques employed (temperature/pressure, apparatus material, length of distillation, etc.)

    It is because of #4 and #5 that its no surprise that almost every single oud oil you find in the Middle Eastern market smells identical. Virtually all of them smell the same: leathery, pungent, animalic, smoky. And all this is SOLELY because of #4 and #5 (and also the fact that there is not a single big perfume house in the ME which sells only 100% pure oud oils, and the chemicals that are used by all the different companies there, to enhance oud oils are the same, and thus trying to discent "Indian" vs "Cambodian" is meaningless).

    But if optimal distillation preferences are employed for #4 and #5 then believe it or not, but you can actually guess correctly not only what country an oud oil is from, but in fact the region as well.
    e.g. "Manipur, India", "Malakka, peninsular Malaysia", "Sarawak, Borneo Island, Malaysia", and so on..

    To be able to do this though, the oil has to be high quality. If it isn't, then there's no difference between "Indian", "Cambodian", "Indonesian", etc..

    By the way, hedonist is quite correct about the cross-cultivation of foreign species in different countries. You can now buy 'Cambodian' oud oils distilled from trees whose saplings were important from Cambodia, but grown in Java, Indonesia. Or 'Indian' oud which is actually Thai, and so on.. And that 'Cambodian' will indeed smell pretty 'Cambodian', but with some differences.

    Ultimately it boils down to the species. A quick sniff of a Crassna oil will immediately tell you its Crassna. A Filaria oil is unmistakably Filaria. Things like altitude, soil composition etc only 'enhance' the core scent profile. And the core scent profile is a result of the species of the agarwood tree.

    I have left out some stuff which complicates matters (like the nature of the inoculate used, if the tree is cultivated and not wild, fungus strains that trigger different resin productions, etc..). But all that I have stated above should answer the original poster's question. ANd hopefully not just made matters more confusing!! : )

    - - - Updated - - -


    Here's what you need to consider:
    1) purity (99% are adulterated)
    2) were the trees used for distillation wild or cultivated? (99% are cultivated)
    3) quality of the feedstock (i.e. darker wood rich with E.O. content, vs white bunk wood) (99% are from bunk wood)
    4) treatment of the feedstock prior to distillation (if any) (99% are fermented, and thus have the barnyard note)
    5) how optimal were the distillation techniques (99% of the time, the worst techniques are employed, for economic reasons).
    My Top 10

    1. Amouage Homage Attar
    2. Serge Lutens - Muscs Koublai Khan
    3. YSL M7
    4. Serge Lutens - Ambre Sultan
    5. Chanel Egoiste
    6. 24 Gold by Scentstory
    7. Amouage Epic Man
    8. Amouage Jubilation XXV
    9. Bond No. 9 New York Oud
    10. Serge Lutens - Chergui



    "A beautiful fragrance to the nose is like good jazz music to the ears, great food to the mouth, and Megan Fox and Jessica Alba to the eyes..."

  42. #42

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    I have both Cambodian and Indian oud bottles, initially I preferred the Cambodian, it is more pretty, but the Indian oud is more complex and has more depth, well for me.

  43. #43

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by change1 View Post
    tahasyed, how are the grade oil level determined? Grade A, B , C, D.... which oil grade is the best grade? Are the lower grades mixed with jojaba oil?
    When it comes to grading oils in the manner of "A, B, C", "AAAA, AAA, AA, A, BBB", etc, it is highly subjective. Every distiller will have his own standards - the higher up in the alphabet, the better. But one seller's "C" could be leagues ahead of another one's "A".

    In the case of oud/agarwood (the wood), its very easy to tell high quality from low quality, based on quantitative factors (e.g. heaviness, resin concentration, minimal bunk wood, etc.), but its trickier when it comes to oud oil.
    And so, quality can only be determined by the points I mentioned earlier:
    1) purity (and to answer your question, jojoba oil and other cutting agents are very commonly used)
    2) were the trees used for distillation wild or cultivated?
    3) quality of the feedstock (i.e. darker wood rich with E.O. content, vs white bunk wood)
    4) treatment of the feedstock prior to distillation (if any)
    5) how optimal were the distillation techniques.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by vinramani09 View Post
    I have both Cambodian and Indian oud bottles, initially I preferred the Cambodian, it is more pretty, but the Indian oud is more complex and has more depth, well for me.
    Yeah, that is very common! : )
    Indian ouds have an amazing drydown. Rich, spicy, sweet, creamy-woody... and in my opinion the finest of all drydowns. Cambodian/Thai ouds are typically more about the top and heart notes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    By the way, in case any of you are wondering what kind of oud is used in mainstream western perfumery, then there's two main types of oud:

    1) synthetic: this is the most common. Typically, it captures only 1 facet of only 1 genre, namely the Indo-Chinese agarwood genre. There are 4-5 main genres, and each genre has tons of facets and nuances.

    2) bunk wood extract: remember, it takes many decades for a tree to produce high quality oleoresin (the darker patches of fragrant compounds in the tree). The demand of the perfumery industry far outweighs the supply, so something obviously has to be done. As a result, white/non-resinated/bunk wood is distilled at an extremely high temperature which extracts the essential oil from the wood, and not the oleoresin (Please see the attachment for reference). The extracted oil is pungent, harsh, and that which is typically thought of as 'the oud note' in oud frags. As bad as it may be compared to 'real oud oil' (oleoresin extract), its still better than the synthetic counterpart.
    Bunk wood extract is typically used in more expensive frags. As for high quality "real oud oil", then absolutely no mainstream frags contain it. Or if they do, they'll maybe put a drop in, just so they can advertise it. And I don't blame them. Its just far too expensive to use real oud oil, and there simply aren't enough trees in the world to produce enough of it.

    BN.jpg
    Last edited by tahasyed; 9th April 2013 at 02:28 PM.

  44. #44

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Taha. Thank you for these details of "how things are made" in the oud business. Your time taken to reflect and elucidate on this subject is greatly valued here. This type of behind the scenes information is more interesting to we consumers of oud perfume products than you might realize. I have been acquiring oud for years and I read a lot of information in groups and blogs etc. but I learned more from your two posts above than I could have gathered on my own. Great post!

  45. #45

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    You're welcome, Buzzlepuff! I'm glad you found the information useful. : )

    By the way, I do not want to come off as an elitist who has only negative things to say about mainstream oud frags. On the contrary, I think many of them are works of art! Its just that there are a lot of misconceptions out there, and many times we may think a particular 'note' is oud when its not.
    I know you have a fantastic collection of high quality oud oils- and it seems your thoughts on mainstream oud frags are the same as mine: they don't compare to pure oud oils. But some do indeed wonderful, and they should be enjoyed for what they are.

  46. #46

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Is there are big difference between Laos and Cambodian oud? Kurkdjan in his latest Oud line is using Laos. Best oud I've smelled to date.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Anyone tried this?

    Dhen Al Oud Safa/ASAQ
    Glorious Pure
    Cambodi Oudh
    Agarwood oil – aged
    10 years, not
    smoked.

    Rouh Al Oud also aged Cambodi?
    Last edited by outline; 15th April 2013 at 01:30 AM.

  47. #47

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Yes, Laotian oud is more 'primal' and raw, whereas 'Cambodian' (although technically it would be Thai, as 99.99% of so-called Cambodian oils are actually oils extracted from trees grown in Thailand; trees that grew from Cambodian seeds) oils are generally fruity.
    Of course, this differentiation only exists in the world of high quality distillations. Otherwise, they'll both smell the same.

    From the frags you listed above, I've tried 2 or 3. Nothing worth writing home about, I'm afraid!

  48. #48

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge @Tahasyed.

  49. #49

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by tahasyed View Post
    Here's what you need to consider:
    1) purity (99% are adulterated)
    2) were the trees used for distillation wild or cultivated? (99% are cultivated)
    3) quality of the feedstock (i.e. darker wood rich with E.O. content, vs white bunk wood) (99% are from bunk wood)
    4) treatment of the feedstock prior to distillation (if any) (99% are fermented, and thus have the barnyard note)
    5) how optimal were the distillation techniques (99% of the time, the worst techniques are employed, for economic reasons).
    What's your proof for these numbers ? After all you sell oud online and these "facts" could apply to your oud as well ....

  50. #50

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    I think you'll find that the general consensus is that Taha's (& Ensar's) oils, amongst others, are not adulterated.

    If you have something positive to contribute to the discussion, please do so.

  51. #51

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    I think you'll find that the general consensus is that Taha's (& Ensar's) oils, amongst others, are not adulterated.

    If you have something positive to contribute to the discussion, please do so.
    I never said they're adulterated , and i wouldn't dare to say that without proof , that's my point here , why accuse others with such exact numbers like : "99%" ?

  52. #52

    Default Re: Cambodian and indian oud

    Apologies - in my very limited experience, the majority of oils purchased from a number of sources have been, at best, diluted - in such a rare commodity purity with quality is uncommon.

    I'm sure that others can add to this.
    Last edited by lpp; 1st May 2013 at 06:47 PM.

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