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  1. #1

    Default En Avion to Nowhere

    An Attempt to analyze and better understand the Legacy of Ernest Daltroff.

    "While the Guerlains were always organic, Carons were kaleidoscopic."
    -Jean Kerleo

    This Thread Dedicated to the Memory of Emil, 1961-2011




    #1: drifting
    Last edited by le mouchoir de monsieur; 23rd December 2011 at 06:30 AM.
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  2. #2

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    I enjoy Narcisse Noir and also Tabac Blond.

    Elegant and unique. My fav house along with Guerlain.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  3. #3

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    PRIMROSE! delighted to see you here: I am plotting strategies for this thread. I do hope you will come along for the ride!


    #2: Twisting
    Last edited by le mouchoir de monsieur; 11th December 2011 at 06:16 PM.
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  4. #4

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    I wanted our resident Caronista Larimar to open the show. By my calculations, he is now just waking up! I'm sure he's not half awake that he's poured "Tabac Blond" extract all over him! In fact, knowing Larimar, I would not be the least bit surprised if he's rigged up a kind of alarm clockwork that, at a precise hour each morning, awakes him with a cloud of perfume, rather than the usual bells and tones!

    #3: Whiteout
    Last edited by le mouchoir de monsieur; 11th December 2011 at 06:17 PM.
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  5. #5

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Oh wow, being awakend by a cloud of Tabac Blond (with its leather whip? )...
    Maybe the key to major satisfaction and enjoyment from wearing perfume is not to 'understand' them? Understanding and comprehending what's going on is disillusioning?
    Anyway, you know that smelling En Avion's opening blast is like a drug to me. I haven't smelled anything better. Makes me smile as some Caron lovers say the classics need time to develop as they are rather unpresentable initially. Well, not for this weirdo here...
    Today's 'Caronade' seems to be tied around a special use and blend of carnation, I think. The orange blossom/neroli with Caron's rose are main players. I have read that En Avion was a violet heavy scent? Can anyone smell that?
    The original chypré En Avion of the 1930s had a very special accord, which I would have identified as the often quoted 'orange tree', a bitter accord resembling 'orange bitters' from an old-fashioned bar.
    I am very intrigued what Fraysse does in the base (musk...) It smells animalic to me, but not oppressive. The original was not an animalic heavy hitter either to my nose.
    Now, come up with the scoop, mdm!

  6. #6
    donna255's Avatar
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    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    No never got violet from En Avion. For me the Carons are always big on the orangeblossom

    Narcisse Noir and Narcisse Blanc especially(extract versions).
    DONNA

  7. #7
    Sugandaraja's Avatar
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    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    I'm fond of En Avion, though there's a puff of bitter-soapy orange blossom in the top, that reminds me of Narcisse Noir, a fragrance I can't take at all. In the drydown, though, En Avion strikes me as less harsh and more sophisticated than its related sibling, Tabac Blonde.

    I agree that there is something linking all the classic carons, a deep rose-carnation note obvious in Bellodgia, Poivre, Noir de Noir, but present in Tabac Blond, En Avion, Narcisse Noir, Pois de Senteur, French CanCan, and Acaciosa to varying degrees.

  8. #8

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Ah....the Caronade. This, my friends, is what I attempt to clarify here with this thread: Naturally, every single one of the Caron greats are linked by a certain "air de famille." This was a pivotal, defining quality to every major French perfumer, in the days when there was a standard of elegance and quality that, under no circumstances, could be ignored. Thus:

    The Guerlain "Guerlinade," with it's pastry like vanilla and soft powdery hesperidic notes, as if someone "handed you a lemon tart"
    The Patou "Patte," a boozy, sparkling slap in the face: A cocktail of gin (Monsieur Patou loved gin), black pepper, and other notes making an abstract bouquet that immediately identifies any patou (save perhaps "Joy,") as such.

    But what of this Caronade? To me, very single Caron classic I have sampled, (with the exception of "Pour un Homme," which, to a certain extent, does not count, as it was specifically created for men: A novelty in its time) not only opens with, but maintains the strangest, most unearthly symphony of notes that play like veritable music, all the while maintaining a very staunchly bizarre and intrinsic mystery that is downright bewitching.

    It seems to me that this very quality, the Caonade, is what makes people either "Guerlain," or "Caron," because, if you don't like it, or you enjoy it but can't imagine parading about in it, I am sure it will have something to do with this oddity that, often very loudly, speaks its' name without an hint of shame. I, myself, have never smelled any perfume, in all of my life, and all of you can imagine that I have smelled thousands, that has this strange trait that will identify the wearer of a Caron immediately and with no imprecision whatsoever. Wax on as much as you like about neroli and powder, rose and carnation, but to me, familiar with all of these notes, it smells like raw jasmine wax, untreated petroleum jelly, and vinyl. It is this complete abstraction I hope to explore in this thread: What makes many of these great perfumes seem "kinky" to our modern noses. Even that pedantic, dismissive emperor, who clearly has no clothes, Luca Turin, ordains: "You wouldn't want to take a girl home to meet your mother who wears Tabac Blond."

    #4 Blackbird Braille
    Last edited by le mouchoir de monsieur; 11th December 2011 at 06:40 PM.
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  9. #9
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    This is from another thread; I thought you might find it interesting.

    Most or some of you know that I'm really stuck on Caron French Can Can. This is from a refill I got from The EBay French Shopper- Shop France, I think she's called. She goes over & gets the goods in Paris & ships them to you when she gets back to the states. (I am not her friend nor do I have any affiliation!)

    Briefly, my rant on french perfume is that you must get it! French law dictates perfume must be potable; or drinkable so instead of cheap wood alcohol (US law still dictates perfume must be poisonous. Leftover from Prohibition.) they use the type that is akin to vodka or grain alcohol. (I'm no scientist so I don't know the correct term.) Anyway, it makes the perfumes smell creamy, not harsh.

    You can really tell the difference, IMO. The first time I tried this French Can Can in NY, I thought it smelled like rotten flowers. Then for some reason, I decided to try the the french stuff. It is a glorious amber, violet and rose combination that is just unlike any other scent out there.

    So, check out those french fumes!


    And I adore the Daltroff creations; Tabac Blond, Narcisse Noir, Infini, Fleurs de Rocailles, En Avion and Nuit de Noel are some that I love, probably there are others I'm forgetting.
    Last edited by kumquat; 12th December 2011 at 01:04 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    So, Kumquat, what you're suggesting is that perfumes blended in France destined for the American market are blended with different ingredients than those that are sold in their native country? I've heard of this but only briefly: I can't say that I know for a fact that it is true, although many are those that speak of such regulations. This is an interesting detail: I who tend to buy my perfumes both in France and in America, I can't say that I've noticed a tremendous difference: I'm sure that if I were to concentrate and to do a two-wrist-test, I may be able to detect one. I do know for a fact that French law requires fragrances to be potable, what I didn't know was that American law requires them to be poisonous. This could be a potential explanation as to why my "Flowerbomb" cocktails don't taste quite as delicious here as they do in France. (Flowerbomb: invented, 1984: In a tall glass, place ice cubes, and one shot of vodka, along with one drop Shalimar extract, then fill glass with plain soda water.) There is also the still practiced French trick of soaking cigarettes in extract, then letting them dry on a radiator for several days until they are bone dry, and then smoking them. I tried this once with "Knize 10" and it was fascinating. I could not finish the cigarette: It was intoxicating to the point of dizziness and nausea. I wonder what a cigarello would be like soaked in "en avion," dried, and then smoked? somehow I can see this working more pleasantly in a cigar, or a smoking medium that is not meant to be inhaled, but merely held in the mouth. Larimar, why don't you soak one of your cigars in "en avion," let it dry, smoke it, and report back to us?

    #5 Wenceslasaire
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  11. #11

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    Wax on as much as you like about neroli and powder, rose and carnation, but to me, familiar with all of these notes, it smells like raw jasmine wax, untreated petroleum jelly, and vinyl. It is this complete abstraction I hope to explore in this thread: What makes many of these great perfumes seem "kinky" to our modern noses. Even that pedantic, dismissive emperor, who clearly has no clothes, Luca Turin, ordains: "You wouldn't want to take a girl home to meet your mother who wears Tabac Blond."
    Alright then, can we have an explanation (less technical please) what exactly raw jasmine wax is and how it differs from the essential oil, absolute etc. Petroleum jelly?

    Luca Turin and Tania Sanchez changed their mind in the last edition of The Guide. I conclude one star (Tabac Blond), two stars (En Avion) and a general rant how terribly reformulated they are now would make them perfectly in-law proof, I suppose.

    I have seen you writing this, kumquat! I have never noticed anything like this myself, but I have the vintage extrait of Shalimar produced on both sides of the big pond, I think. I will find out.

    Don't even dare to get me started on smoking En Avion .... hahaaaa!!! Unfortunately, mdm, I am an inhaler, so puffing cigars is not my thing. I smoke occasionally and currently, you guessed it, the 100 % pure tabac blond from Gauloises... No ebony cigarette holder, knock it off, will you?!

  12. #12

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Larimar can read my mind. He dismisses my accusations before even I have made them. That's perfectly fine, Larimar. Just use your carnelian cigarette holder. At least vaporize some en avion on one of your Gauloises Blondes, let it dry, and smoke it! You know you want to do it: Don't let's get started here. You have an audience now: We are all waiting with baited breath to hear how a nice, fine Gauloise Blonde tasted when liberally sprayed with en avion extract!

    For that which concerns Jasmine wax, it is used in profusion in cosmetics: There is so much left over in the making of Jasmine absolute, there had to be something made of it: It is yellow and a bit like beeswax, though not quite as dense. The odour is very strange indeed: Somewhat like jasmine but much earthier and less floral. It is the base of so many cosmetic preparations. Patou made Joy soaps out of it, and lipsticks as well. More than one reviewer has mentioned this "vintage lipstick" smell of the Caronade: With this observation they are unknowingly referring to the jasmine wax note. Untreated petroleum jelly, also heavily used in cosmetics, and notably in medicaments, smells like petrol: Tabac Blond has an huge dose of this note in it. What we are all waiting to hear is how that cigarette tasted. Duty calls, Larimar! As for that "soi-disant" emperor of scent, how ever could he suggest that Carons are ill-revised? They are scrupulously dosed and tended to by one of the last great living noses: More likely, there's war/disaccord occurring between Luca Turin and Monsieur Fraysse. On this I would bet. On the eventuality of Larimar smoking an en avion gauloise, I would not: We're
    waiting.......


    #6 Avalanche
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  13. #13
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    le mouchoir de monsieur, I don't believe the same process is used to create perfume for the french market as it is in the US. As for the rest of Europe or Canada, or anywhere else, I'm not certain but I am stuck on only getting it from France, to be sure. I don't think I'd be too keen on actually drinking it or smoking it. It's a good rule for the safety factor, and it makes for beautiful fumes!
    (Once when I was about 6 years old I poured my mother's good perfume down the sink. I remember it was bright green. I could have just as easily decided to drink it. She discovered me just as I was watching it go down; to her dismay.-She was pretty calm, considering. I wonder what it was. She said it was from Ireland.)

  14. #14

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    As all of you know, I am proud, fan-wielding, hemline hiking Cocotte, and not at all a nose-in-the air Grande Dame. I have been a devotee to Guerlain my whole life, and this devotion shows no signs of faltering, even faced with their current lack of direction and fall from grace: I feel they have been extremely innovative, even brilliant, in their cosmetic preparations, and a complete failure in their fragrance division: I am sorry. There is no way that "Insolence" and all of those new comps in the elongated square bottles do anything for me: Some I feel are even repulsive. I have smelled "L'Abeille," the 16,000E+ concoction in the hideous Bacarat "landing space ship" bottle and I'm afraid I've only a big "Meh" to pronounce on that one. On the other hand, Guerlain now can proudly proclaim they make the best lipsticks in the world with the advent of their "Rouge Automatique" line: Ladies, I defy any of you to try this out & not become instantly addicted. (I recommend #160 "Bal de Mai" as it is merely the colour of healthy lips and suits everyone.) At a very reasonable price, they simply blew all competition off the scene with this product: But it's lipstick! Where's the groundbreaking perfume? This new nose of their's, this Thierry Water, or whatever his name is, seems quite confident in his role, yet the output is far from exceptional: Guerlinistas/os want and expect exceptional. Now, if Guerlain had merely stolen Richard Fraysse's magnificent re-creation of En Avion, called it "A la Folie" or something more in their realm of frivolity, I would be buying it by the liter in bee bottles, which is my means of attack with Guerlain. I wouldn't care how much it cost. It could be any price. I only know about "En Avion" because of our BN National Larimar. It is he who has re-opened my mind to Caron, I who had all but written it off, waiting for it to shutter the way all great houses do, since, as so well put by Cristobal Balenciaga himself, "the world is no longer a place for (my) creation." I don't think many would argue that this applies to Caron: Yet one more reason we should all be sending fan mail to Richard Fraysse. Not only has he arrived at recreating all of these marvelously daring comps from the seriously overly-elaborate/slightly disturbed imagination of Ernest Daltroff, but he has done so with an amazing amount of respect and devotion. I read somewhere that this Thierry Water from Guerlain claims the formula for Jicky hasn't been changed for over twenty years: Any fragrance professional will tell you that's a wankload of nonsense: Any wearer of Jicky will tell you that's impossible. Fragrance comps have to be re-orchestrated yearly regardless of sanctions and modes due to variants in the "crop" used to make them, so that's about all the proof I need to assume "someone" at Guerlain is standing in shiny Westons about five sizes too big. When I spray this Caron extract, it reminds me of what a perfume should be: The Guerlains, in their day, were like this: You had an extract, and, by God, it was an extract. I now have to order my Jicky parfum in 250ml & 500ml bee bottles because it behaves in exactly the same way the "parfum de toilette" of old did: 2-3 hour longevity. In an extract, you expect at least 10 hours, and very often you would get 15. Even so....I'm still a Cocotte. (Grandes Dames out there, do feel free to bust in on this and give us a piece of your mind!) I feel like a very expensive Cocotte, though: I may be bathing in Guerlain, but I am the proud owner of 75ml of pristine En Avion extract! That, people, makes me rich! rich! rich! 75ml! (My current stock of Jicky parfum: 1x500ml, 2x250ml, 8x30ml How does that make me feel? Meh.) 75ml of En Avion makes me feel as if, for the rest of my life, I could transform from a lowly Cocotte to a Grande dame in a mere dab: because that's all you need. Well, a dab....and a Stola. Right, Larimar?
    #7: Swans-a-Melting
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  15. #15

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    I hereby proclaim this thread to be a kind of war game: We must add a bit of modernity. Henceforth, this thread will plot Cocottes (Guerlain wearers) against Grandes Dames (devotees of Caron) Each reader/poster is kindly entreated to take sides. It does not matter if you wear Creed, for example, the way I sometimes wear Comme des garcons. you merely must chose between Guerlain and Caron: Thus far, we are certain of only two team members:

    Le Mouchoir de Monsieur: Cocotte
    Larimar: Grande Dame

    Primrose? what exactly are you? (no hybrids, please: You simply have to chose your side)

    #8 Deamondi-Pavlova
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  16. #16

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    More than one reviewer has mentioned this "vintage lipstick" smell of the Caronade: With this observation they are unknowingly referring to the jasmine wax note. Untreated petroleum jelly, also heavily used in cosmetics, and notably in medicaments, smells like petrol: Tabac Blond has an huge dose of this note in it.
    Thanks for these fascinating explanations, le mdm! Very interesting! I did not have a clue. I can't comment since I neither wear lipstick nor make-up.

    You once said about me that Larimar wants to smell 'GORGEOUS' and I have come to the conclusion you are very right. Yep, however much I love my classic Guerlains, it is Caron that pushes all my buttons. Certainly a Grande Dame here...

    With regard to the Gauloises to be smoked with En Avion... you know, I can see two fellows coming up to me with a straight jacket... Alright, I dabbed some on my handrolled Gauloises last night. I can see what it did... it conceals the cigarette smoke and that's what it was probably all about (rather than enjoyment), right?!

  17. #17

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    For purposes of clarity to all and sundry, let it be known, that though a bloomer-revealing Cocotte at heart, I, le MdM, do not either wear lipstick nor make up! Very haughty of you, Larimar. You Grandes Dames! All the same! must make us working girls feel sub par with your blithe comments! I'm afraid the Cococttes are kicking the Grandes Dames arses, though: Thus far, Team Cocotte has provided all the information, posed the questions, and scrupulously avoided low blows. (As it stands we do not know which side any other readers are on. I was expecting Primrose to manifest Grande Dame status, but as you see thus far, nothing.) It is indeed true that you Grandes Dames must "smell gorgeous," at all times and by that I mean there must be a whirlwind of fabulousness twisting around you that precedes your entrance, dances about the room while you mingle at the party, and lingers behind you as you langourously exit the room, leaving all to marvel at your incomparable sillage: "Who was that? What's that scent? it's Gorgeous!"
    Meanwhile....We Cocottes, on the other hand, are busy whooping it up on the dance floor, making eye contact with strangers, and ultimately luring one of the better looking ones into a dark corner or passage where dangerous liaisons may be wound, all the while smelling very sweaty, very organic, oozing pheromones, and, and leaving a trail of corpses. Oh, well....I knew these kinds of war games were easily won. You see? We cocottes, in our musk-laden clouds, we're used to you Grandes Dames walking about, nose in the air, puffing on your carnelian cigarette holders, and dragging your stolas. Yes, everybody is looking at you in awe, but we, on the other hand, can't be bothered because we're lip-locked with a wildly charming stranger in the dark hall across the way, and our dance card is quite full by the time you leave: If one isn't willing, we've an entire choice of identities to process: We don't smell "Gorgeous," no, we smell "Attractive." So you smoked an En Avion cigarette, did you, Larimar? That's two points for the Grandes Dames! Did the smoke taste like En Avion? or did it just smell like En Avion? We Cocottes do smoke, you know, but not tobacco.... As for Kumquat, we have no idea which side she's on: Cocotte I would presume, but this theory she presents, the one about French fragrance bound for export being blended with different grades of alcohol: We must get to the bottom of this. My inclination is to say it's a wankload of nonsense. I will have to make some inquiries in my dark, steamy, after hours haunts amongst some of my more shady peers: Some do know about these kind of more "Chemical" affairs. I wonder if Dr. Redneck is reading? He knows everything. Also for purposes of clarity, I was not suggesting in commentary #8 that the Carons contained actual notes of jasmine wax and untreated petroleum jelly: I was merely calling out that they summons memories of the smells of these. If you want to score some points, Larimar, tell us in exactitudes what it is in all of thes Caron masterpieces (Ernest Daltroff comps only) that hovers about the flight, that seems identical in each: This shotgun blast that is lethal: Remember how we were confused about "Poivre" and "Pois de Senteur?" Here is a perfect example: Effectively, when applied, they smell identical. It is only after this Caronade flight wears down that they assert themselves as separate entities: Completely separate, since "Pois de Senteur" has that sublime "green house" floral quality that "Poivre" lacks entirely. You who are our Head Mistress of Team Grande Dame, give us all a lesson, will you, and break down that "Caronade Flight." What is it, exactly? (Current Score: Cocottes: 5, Grandes Dames, 2)

    #9 Eiderfalls
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  18. #18
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere



    I imagine I am more of a Grande Dame than a Cocette.
    I used to smoke and when I did I especially gravitated towards Russian Sobranies or Gauloises.
    I still try to devastate the room with my glorious fragrance.
    And more often than not, it has lately been French Can Can.
    Vintage Infini, Tabac Blond and Narcisse Noir aren't far behind,
    although I have a wonderful vintage Mitsouko I treasure, as well.





    Last edited by kumquat; 13th December 2011 at 06:21 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Where is Baykat? She is a Caron maniac!
    "You...put on cologne to write?"(From Midnight in Paris)

    Stop by for a chat: http://perfumedletters.wordpress.com/
    My book reviews: http://www.nstperfume.com/author/Cheryl/

  20. #20
    IngaMi's Avatar
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    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    I see that you must call me then, a bloomer-revealing Cocotte, lipstick, makeup and all. And Jicky of course.

  21. #21

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    So: We have:
    TEAM COCOTTE: (currently ruling)
    Mouchoir de Monsieur, Head Cocotte
    Ingami

    TEAM GRANDE DAME:(currently trailing)
    Larimar, Head Mistress
    Kumquat

    All right, Newbies: Boot camp. Show your stuff.

    #9 Eiderfalls
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  22. #22
    donna255's Avatar
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    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    I am in both camps. Discovered the Guerlains long before the Carons, but very rarely meet a Caron I did not love. There a few though. The Guerlains the moderns and I include Jean Paul in that I have not loved, the Jean Paul's I like Eau de Guerlain and Chamade. Think I have equal numbers of both ranges.

    Oh I do own one of the Automatic lipsticks from Guerlain Apres L'Ondee.
    DONNA

  23. #23

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    We cocottes, in our musk-laden clouds, we're used to you Grandes Dames walking about, nose in the air, puffing on your carnelian cigarette holders, and dragging your stolas. Yes, everybody is looking at you in awe, but we, on the other hand, can't be bothered because we're lip-locked with a wildly charming stranger in the dark hall across the way, and our dance card is quite full by the time you leave: If one isn't willing, we've an entire choice of identities to process: We don't smell "Gorgeous," no, we smell "Attractive."
    YAWN! Hey, super cocotte, you know it is the Grande Dame's Gorgeousness your wildly charming stranger will never forget until his last day. You see, this is something one has or simply has not. :P Ah well, on to more important things...

  24. #24
    Sugandaraja's Avatar
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    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    And where does that put Chanel fans - Coco-ettes? Tramps? Working Girls? Ladies who lunch?

    I guess I'll just baptize myself in Pois de Senteur and let myself slide into grande damnation, as I find the Caronade more agreeable than the Guerlainade.

  25. #25

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Larimar View Post
    YAWN! Hey, super cocotte, you know it is the Grande Dame's Gorgeousness your wildly charming stranger will never forget until his last day. You see, this is something one has or simply has not. :P Ah well, on to more important things...
    Larimar! I, as current ruling sovereign of this war game, ( also currently winning, you know) cry Foul! Insulting other team players is not in order: That's one demerit for Team Grande Dame! It's not that we Cocottes aren't gorgeous/unforgettable/alluring/irrestistable/desireable, and you stola-dragging GD's are the beauty icons we aspire to! Not at all: You see we Cocottes are proud of our status! We don't want to be Grande Dames, unless of course the fancy hits us, very much like when you GD's go "slumming" and wear Jicky, in which case we'll transform for the evening, the way this Cocotte did last night when she was very "Grande Dame" at the ballet. (The lady of the box behind ours actually asked me at intermission what "cologne" I wore! I love it when they call it "cologne." It's so funny to me. I wanted to say it was "Old Spice." But I didn't.) And another thing, Larimar: My wildly charming strangers will never forget you until her last days, (usually) not his, remember? .....And......you never know.....she might be never forgetting you because, in her head she might be thinking: "Ugh! That Man! He smells like petrol! He has so much perfume on it's giving me la migraine!"
    (You never, ever know.....) My date, having IMMEDIATELY said, upon our "hello" embrace, said: "You're not wearing your usual fragrance." I said: "No. I'm not. I thought since we were seeing "Casse-Noisette" it would be better to wear something more wintery (En Avion), do you like it?" Her retort: "Well, at least I can smell it! I never smell the one you wear all the time. I have to be very close to get a whiff of it." my retort: "I know. That's why I like it. I want it rigged up so you literally have to be having sex with me to smell my skin. I don't just give my fragrance off to randoms. I'm not that kind of guy." She smiled. "I know you're not," she said. We Cocottes have a certain intimacy about us that you Grandes Dames lack, you see: Since EVERYONE can smell you. So...He he....So, even though you gained team members Sugaranda, and Donna, we Cocottes are still winning by a mile! (Your insulting behaviour cost you a point: Official Score--Cocottes 5, Grandes Dames, 1. It should be below you, Grandes Dames, to launch insults! If anyone gets down and dirty, it's we Cocottes. OK, Ingami. It's just you and I against the world: but we're winning.....we're winning....unless one of you GD's can come up with something really intriquing, and keep them coming! Now that Sugaranda is part of your ever growing army, perhaps she might be able to bring it on. Donna, The "Chanel" team are "the Harlots," and they aren't playing in this game. You'll have to chose: Which is it going to be?

    #10 Santanyeroofdikov
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  26. #26
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    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    SOTD is Jimmy Choo. Lovely sweet spicy oriental

  27. #27
    IngaMi's Avatar
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    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    MdM, Not winning is simply - not possible. I shall be marinating in Jicky this evening, and I am ready for battle!

  28. #28

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    THERE'S THE SPIRIT, Ingami! See that GD's? We're armed and ready. Take this:

    It's come to light that the vintage "en avion" and the current "en avion," as blended by Richard Fraysse, are radically different. This proves I suppose how each one of us, with the exception of those chanel loving nasty Harlots, who aren't invited to this play off, process scent in a different way. Our man Larimar, who is quite simply the Grandest of all Dames, maintains they are identical. By my take, they couldn't be more different: Naturally, being Caron, they both have that Only Caron "Thing," you know....that "Thing" that just explodes upon application, but, who knew? Even the "Thing" is quite different: It becomes obvious very quickly that "En Avion" was clearly a green chypre--which makes the entire picture more fascinating still. I think Larimar is so accustomed to "Living in Caron," that he can't tell one from the other: I know this is possible, as when you're a Cocotte, like Ingami and myself, we're so used to bathing in Jicky we can barely smell it. The interesting detail is this: "En Avion" was launched in 1928. It was very obviously an intense green chypre, as was the vogue in those days. "Crepe de Chine" comes to mind: One of my favourites, also from the same year. So we have 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1932 and then BAM! Guerlain unleashes "Vol de Nuit." I have stated somewhere on this site, in my review of "Nuit de Noel" I believe, that in those days, Caron was in a league of its own in terms of artistry of scent: Guerlain could not compare, and in many respects did not even try: Caron was more expensive, and, very importantly, more exclusive than Guerlain during these years. Interesting, then, to see the Guerlain Brothers launch "Vol de Nuit" four full years after "En Avion:" Not only the same olfactory family, obviously very much in vogue at that time, but also the same "theme." Patou never did anything like this. In fact, it took them until 1963 to come close, with "Caline." (Vacances, 1934, was green as green gets, but was definitely not a
    chypre) One imagines there were all kinds of green chypres flooding the market back then. It strikes me smelling this vintage Caron just how similar the Patou and Caron styles were: Incomparable richness, unearthly depth, seamless complexity: Yes, but if Grandes Dames wore Caron, I am here to tell you Crowned Heads and Royalty wore Patou. Ingami, we're out here on our own kicking GD arse & they just don't seem to care a fig, do they? Here's an experiment: Take around 20ml of Jicky parfum, and add a single drop of en avion extract to it (in its current formulation.) I did this and I LOVED the result. I was still unquestionably a powdery, civetty Cocotte, but, inexplicably, just slightly more intense: there was a sharp warmth that was added just by this single drop. I'm sure I will repeat the experiment. Excuse me now while I go pour Eau du Coq all over my body........

    #11: Stellatundra
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  29. #29

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Quote Originally Posted by donna255 View Post
    I am in both camps. Discovered the Guerlains long before the Carons, but very rarely meet a Caron I did not love. There a few though. The Guerlains the moderns and I include Jean Paul in that I have not loved, the Jean Paul's I like Eau de Guerlain and Chamade. Think I have equal numbers of both ranges.

    Oh I do own one of the Automatic lipsticks from Guerlain Apres L'Ondee.
    I am also in both camps, and happily so. I have some problems with Can Can and Poivre. Too spicy.

    But Narcisse Noir and Tabac Blond are wonderful!
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  30. #30

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    But Primrose! You Can't be in both camps! I absolutely LOATHE Mitsouko, by example, so much so that it makes me gag, and I adore too many Carons to list here, yet I have chosen my side, Primrose. You, now, You...must chose yours. I'm calling you out as a Cocotte....but that's just me and my intuition. You go off and play with the Grandes Dames if you will, but I promise you: Cocottes have more fun!

    #12 Hunter's Dream
    Last edited by le mouchoir de monsieur; 15th December 2011 at 05:16 AM.
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  31. #31

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    You little over-enthusiastic blabbing cocotte... you are gasping for air, because you inhale the air I exhaled before... So well, with regard to En Avion I did say the sample from the late 1980s/early 1990s, which in fact is Fraysse's interpretation, because the original smells different (think Lanvin Rumeur and probably even more chypré with orange bitters (must be the orange tree listed)), smells practically the same compared to the one available now.
    Wise decision, Suga! Being baptized in Pois de Senteur is just perfect.

    Larimar, tell us in exactitudes what it is in all of thes Caron masterpieces (Ernest Daltroff comps only) that hovers about the flight, that seems identical in each: This shotgun blast that is lethal: Remember how we were confused about "Poivre" and "Pois de Senteur?" Here is a perfect example: Effectively, when applied, they smell identical. It is only after this Caronade flight wears down that they assert themselves as separate entities:
    So, cute little cocotte, spit it out! Bring up the scoop!

  32. #32
    Guerlainista
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    Well, I feel a bit like a child jumping in to pick a side when the grown-ups are arguing, but you did invite the noobs to enter the fray, Sir lMdM. For what it's worth, I am firmly in the cocotte camp (wait, why are we chickens? ).

    I am developing an infatuation with some of the Carons, and want to get to know them better, but cannot live without the Guerlains. Habit Rouge is the closest I have to a signature, but I love Heritage as well, though that's where I stop. My true loves are Jacques' creations - Shalimar, l'Heure Bleue, and Mitsouko. If these are what the cocottes smelled like in their time, who needs a Grand Dame? I much prefer the edible and accessible lemon tart.

    MDM - thanks to you, I have also discovered Jicky and Mouchoir de Monsieur. I love these as well, especially Jicky. The lavender-vanilla accord is magic, and the skank makes it a gorgeous beast. Not the prettiest girl at the ball, but she is the one everyone wants to dance with. I've read your posts about how diminished they are, and I don't even want to smell the vintage - i'm happy in my ignorance.

  33. #33
    hedonist222's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    I would not be the least bit surprised if he's rigged up a kind of alarm clockwork that, at a precise hour each morning, awakes him with a cloud of perfume, rather than the usual bells and tones!

    #3: Whiteout
    lol thats hilarious

    for swap/sale:





  34. #34
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    In response to this thread I have switched to Caron Rose edp today. I had been wearing Guerlain for the past few days for my little heliotrope kick in the vintage classics from Guerlain.
    DONNA

  35. #35

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    While I may very well be overly enthusiastic and blabbing, Madame, there is no possible way, by any stretch of the imagination, that, as a Cocotte, I could be little: As it stands I can't ever go anywhere without being the tallest person in the room, or wherever it happens to be that I am, so for clarity's sake, while I may be gasping for air you before inhaled then sucking it in to then exhale in my own words, with my own interpretations thrown in the mix, you, Madame, are grasping at straws. Readers: All of you are witness: Have I ever referred to Madame as anything other than the High Priestess of Caron? She who knows all? She who speaks the Final Word on all things Caron? And have I not, to my own detriment and to that of my team, dragged out Guerlain's linge sale to air out in front of the world, pointed out the shortcomings of its' current nez-en-chef Thierry Water, and generally winged and moaned about how the House itself is becoming just another mega-brand, and might just as well be L'Oreal , or even Garnier, and make with the drugstore shampoos. Still: Madame is furious with me--I can tell: We Cocottes function on pure intuition, one of our many attributes. She's summonsed her gaggle of slaves and put them in line for beatings. She's puffing furiously on her Gauloise, forgetting even to insert it into her carnelian fume-cigarette: He stola is shaking so hard it's losing its' fur. Why? There are no points to be won in being curt and dismissive, and since you Grande Dames have only one point, I, being a warm harted Cocotte, will refrain from issuing yet another point erasing demerit for bad behaviour, and will request reverently only that Her Highness have a spell of rest on her long satin divan, once the slaves have all been whipped, and the few that have privileges been made to perform sexual prouesses: Just turn on the special system of fake "Ondee" (light, dewy rain) that's been installed within the moulded ceilings of the Throne Room, switch it to produce a light rain of something soothing like "Pois de Senteur," and relax.
    Primrose, you're going to have to go over to the Grande Dame team. Your Sovereign is in need. Me, I'm perfectly calm; even inhaling vapours from the bottle of "En Avion" next to my bed--a very generous gift from Madame--and perfectly thrilled to welcome Rubegon to Team Cocotte: See, we're a warm bunch: Right, Ingami? When a newbie joins, we break out the Absinthe and get trashed. Then we go out dancing, and, even though we hit the dance hall as an army, we all soon lose track of each other, only to compare notes of the scandalous goings on the morning after: "Can you believe........?" and "Did you see how........?" and of course the ever recurrent "Oh, Dear! I'm sure I can't recall! Maybe I did.........................?" At any rate, Larimar, do please re-think your current state of stola-shaking fury. You're up against a bunch of warm fuzzies: We should be easy to beat: We've already openly admitted to being sub-par on all levels. But nobody calls me little, OK bee-atch?

    #13: Faloop'njoompoola
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  36. #36
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    MdM, you are so right, Rubegon joining the delicious Team Cocotte is the perfect occasion for the Absinthe - not that we need a reason. And how we do love the morning after with all it's decadent memories of the evening before. Finding out, upon asking " Did I maybe do...." that yes, indeed, I did and with abandon, I sigh with delight. But not before dousing myself with Jicky, until I'm silly with glee. Oh, MdM, we are warm and fuzzy aren't we? What fun! Rubegon, you must try the vintage Jicky if you can, the skank will make you shiver. Rubegon, so glad to meet you....you made the right choice in joining Team Cocotte..our leader MdM will lead us into victory! After all, we are such a warm bunch, but we can be naughty when we want to be. Carry on MdM!

  37. #37
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    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Only to tip the scales, however little I might, being as we are soooo far behind, I'm firmly and lopsidedly a Grande Dame. Tabac Blond-- there are none higher. It was bewitching on that first day and craveworthy today... It is cold out and my edp shrinks, so I'm waiting for my parfum to arrive so I may be redolent in all seasons. You can keep your Guerlains.

  38. #38

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    ....In answer to Sunnyfunny's question, Team Cocotte hurls in unison...all, what is it? Three of us? YES! we remember laughter because, you know, it would be quite impossible for us to forget it: We're in hysterics laughing even when grief stricken: What else would we do? We're Cocottes! That's us, back there, see? We're the ones on the dance floor. We're the ones necking in public. We're a very big part of why the queue is so long at the loo. We're all very happy smelling like lemon tarts and cinnamon buns. We feel that life's too short to not be causing pangs of hunger amongst our peers everywhere we go: So we're grateful that Team Grande Dame owns Caron. We don't want it, neither do we wish to see it disappear: We just want to understand it, as to our noses a perplexing thing it is. It is true that these are splendid perfumes, there's absolutely no doubt about it, but they are strange, as are all things beautiful and poetic. We have our strange notes as well, but ours don't seem to suggest lunacy. When I smell "Mitsouko," as stated above, I'm quite literally ill. When I smell "Narcisse Noir," I'm scared. Some of these Carons are downright eerie: They are so otherworldly as to flirt with horror and occult. Some that I have smelled have reminded me of ambiances such as those found over the course of Stanley Kubrick's "The Shining." In fact, Caron is very much a kind of Stanley Kubrick grade of perfumery, where Guerlain would be more "Merchant-Ivory," wouldn't it? To me, most Guerlains, and notably this famous "Guerlinade" that is in all of them, smell warm and delicious and romantic: Even when they are tragically sad,(Apres l'Ondee) they are still beautiful in a way that is somewhat difficult to contest. What we Cocottes are all hoping to learn is what it is precisely you Grande Dames find so alluring about Carons. We understand that some are unquestionably lovely (en avion) but most of us are perplexed by the frank frenzy of most of the others: To us, some of them seem like witch's brew: They are intimidating, for the most part, and, do let's be clear; subtlety is very obviously not their forte.
    Team Grande Dame, your sovereign is engaged in something, something we can not intuit, so one of you please speak up, and do explain to us what it is that attracts you to them. Tabac Blond, for instance: I know this scent so very well. My best friend wore it for over twenty years, and I was the one who found it for him: I was the one who would buy it for him. Every Christmas he would get a 30ml bottle of extract, which would last the entire year, and let me tell you, this man never didn't smell like "Tabac Blond." (he had been wearing "Jules" by Dior prior) But on a woman? How could any woman today find tabac blond remotely passable? Most men would wonder if she hadn't been marinating in an human sized tank full of petrol smelling that in the crux of a bosom. I am asking all of you, my people behind me: Tell us what it is that makes you swoon in these extraordinary comps. We are all fully aware that you can't fake quality: One has only to examine Guerlain in its current incarnation to prove that point, so obviously this is not a question that can be answered by a diatribe involving quality: It's soul we're after. What is the soul of Caron, what does it represent to you, you the torch baring disciples of Ernest Daltroff the Great? Speaking strictly for myself, I will say straight away that every single comp that bares his name translates neurosis and an overly active mind: perhaps even a drug habit. For this Cocotte, though, none of that is necessarily a bad thing: I am oft neurotic, I have an overly active mind, and there's no denying that I have drug habits. As Holly Golightly says in "Breakfast at Tiffany's," --"What good can there possibly be inliving if you can't drink and smoke?" Someone. Someone on Team Grande Dame kindly step forth and tell us all about it. Get Baycat on it if needs be: We learn a few posts up that "She's a Caron fanatic." It's time to explore...and wonder: What is it that makes us...that makes us all fanatics?

    #14: Zebranivem
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  39. #39

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnyfunny View Post
    ...a Grande Dame. Tabac Blond-- there are none higher. so I'm waiting for my parfum to arrive so I may be redolent in all seasons. You can keep your Guerlains.
    Nope, there is no better! I bet it smells heavenly on you. I wrote in my review that part of Tabac Blond's thrill is that it does not fit any wearer per se (men or women). It's always sort of daring.

    Uber-cocotte, maybe you like being part of a great demise... what Guerlain is doing to their great classics (Vol de Nuit and Mouchoir de Monsieur the sole exceptions now) is bold and shocking. The glory of Guerlain is a thing of the past. I had just finished my 50 ml refill Shalimar EdP last night and opened my Jade Jagger bottle of Shalimar EdP. Although I am not saying all components are worse (it partly smells less artificial and sharp to my nose), but generally I am asking how more polite can you make Shalimar in order to please every naive village girl?
    Uber-cocotte, I want class, style, old-world glamour, sophistication, daringness, uniqueness, a dark brew...
    Let me quote Ingmar Bergman (for the medium film):
    “Film as dream, film as music. No art passes our conscience in the way film does, and goes directly to our feelings, deep down into the dark rooms of our souls.”
    I think the same applies to perfumery. That's Caron to me.

  40. #40

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    There is an icon available on iphones that represents an image of two hands clapping. A very intimate friend of mine, one who is very dear to me, sends me this icon regularly over text, for sundry reasons. As I am deteriorating on all levels, my eye sight is now going, and it will only be a matter of days before le MdM is a spectacles-wearing nerd (Another friend: "Why don't you get a monacle?") Every time I would see this icon, I would wonder: Why is it that she is there sending me four roast chickens in a row? Is it that she is suggesting that perhaps I should eat (detail concerning le MdM: Not a big eater)? At any rate, were I capacitated to insert this particular icon here on this thread, I would, as I am now clapping through butter coloured unlined gloves made of the skins of baby goats (they hold fragrance better than anything in the world). Well done, Larimar. That's four points for Team Grande Dame in just one post, which impacts our current score dramatically:

    Team Cocotte: 7
    Team Grande Dame: 6

    (When foul is called, one team receives a demerit and the other one inherits it. Fouls are called only in the event of insulting behaviours which should be below all of us here: Demerits can be contested, but Team Mistresses will not be issuing them without strong proof of reason.)

    Speaking on behalf of my team, we would like to present the following in reaction to High Priestess Larimar's surmon on the mount:

    While all of us understand that Guerlain has now become a joke and that there is no commercial perfumery left in the world of the past "magnificent four" save Caron, we also understand that, while the art of perfumery has changed dramatically to the detriment of magnificence and grandeur, thus has also changed the world and its inhabitants: In the post above the word "Class" is used. Let it be known that this is a word that is not in the vocabulary of your devoted writer, though he fully understands its meaning, so much so that he, and most everyone else, will understand that such a thing will not and can not be bestowed via ones' choice of fragrance: May I suggest "Character," in its' place? We Cocoottes, for example, would never say the word "Class." Nor do we make an adjective of it by tacking on a "y" at the end. We feel that habit would be more fitting to wearers of chanel.
    We're not as hooked on purity of ingredients as we are specificities of character: We insist that our fragrance perfectly reflect our personality, and, being Cocottes, our personalities are usually somewhat light hearted, humourous, even bordering on daffy, or else, on the opposite end of the spectrum, we are shoe gazing emos, (in which case we love "Apres l'Ondee" and l"Heure Bleue") Since we feel that, upon arrival at a party, our fragrance should not fill the space to the point of asphixiation of the crowd attendant, none of us are all that perturbed about projection: As stated several posts above, my quote I believe, "I want you to almost be having sex with me in order to smell my perfume: I'm not casting it upon randoms" (Which could explain why some Cocottes have been known to have sex with randoms) So, Team Grande Dame, you have us on the quality thing. You always did. You have us on the grandeur thing, inherently. However, we're still not convinced: You keep waving your hand at us, saying: "Keep your Guerlains! Poo-Poo! Off with you!" while all of us huddle, each elbowing the other to keep our manners in check. (None of us would want to burst out laughing, as even Cocottes find that unseemly and insulting) We feel that "Chaacter" is far more important than anything, which would lead some of us to wear cheap pharmacy brands like Dana on occasion since none of us care if the price is 450E per ounce, or 14E per ounce: We just insist our fragrances express our inner moods, which begs the question: Anyone out there on Team Grande Dame, are you daring enough to speak to the "Soul" of Caron, and, more specifically, to this frankly bizarre, scattered quality inherent in all of them, perfectly absent, say, in all of the Guerlains, studies in precision and cool headedness ? We understand that you feel that Carons are extraordinary, and none of we C's will contest that: They are indeed. However, remember, in High Priestess Larimar's post above, Guerlain is accused of being "Polite." Even though your writer does not use the word "Class," it certainly needn't be explained that an huge percentage of the definition of that word revolves around themes concerning politesse. Quite frankly, some of we Cocottes, we who welcome "Village Girls" with open arms, as "Village Girls" have their attributes, far more so than, say, "Village People," feel precisely the same way about Carons: While we all agree that they are magnificent creations, we also insist that they are all so hopelessly dated as to border on rude. Being Cocottes, though, we also understand that there is a time and a place for rude. (I once borrowed my best friend's "Tabac Blond," and wore it to an heavy alt-metal rock band "TOOL" concert) But also we feel particularly attached to politesse. We love how affectionate and playful some of the Guerlain Classics are, even in their modernized versions (Shalimar Parfum Intitial) We respectfully point out, though, that, in this realm, when Caron "Goes There," (Royal Bain de Champagne) there is still an hint of frenetic folly detectable liable to get the wearer kicked out of a restaurant. What else do you have to say about Caron, Grandes Dames? Do please enlighten us: We're all eager to know!

    #15 Spangladasha
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  41. #41
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    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Well, I don't want to get into bashing Guerlains as I am a devotee of the classics; Djedi, L'Heure Bleu, Apres L'Ondee and especially, Vol du Nuit in parfum. (Not to mention Mitsouko, which is possibly the most amazing breakthrough in fumes ever!) But in the spirit of the season I thought I would post this photo of one of my favorite Carons in the original formula;



    It has the subtle spices of this time of year. Get yours on today and get in the mood!

  42. #42

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Lovely kumquat! A few days ago I held the flacon in my hands to get into the Christmas spirit.

  43. #43
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    Hmmm. I haven't tried all the Carons, but of those I have tried, the only one I did not consider owning at some point is Poivre (and I probably sold myself short on that one.) I don't know how to explain why I prefer Caron other than pure and simple skin chemistry, but I will try.
    It was the first house I wanted to explore. I'd never heard of it prior to reading perfume blogs. I received a sampler in the mail of six, and saved Tabac Blond for last because I had a feeling it would be special, and it was, in fact, standout amongst Poivre, Nuit de Noel, Parfum Sacre, Fleurs de Rocaille, and Bellodgia; no small feat! TB turned everything I had thought I'd known about perfume on its ear. Smoke and leather, in a package evocative of nothing but the company selling it? I can make this whatever I want to make it. I knew nothing of the marketing, only how it made other wearers feel. Even after I learned of how it came to be in 1919, it meant little to me because what I was blown away by as Fraysse's recreation-- Tabac Blond for today. For my generation. For me. And the fact was, it was the sexiest, most unusual thing I'd ever smelled.
    As for the others, including Poivre and the Carons I subsequently tried, they are all indicative of a place and a mood, some dangerous, some risque, some aloof, but none of them sad. So they are positively beautiful (except for TB; TB is not beautiful. Have you seen the movie Chocolat? There is a scene where Judi Dench's character tastes hot chocolate for the first time. her eyes take on a captivated, surprised, bewitched, far away quality, and she half-smiles and says, "It tastes like... I don't know..." Then she makes eye contact with the maker of the chocolate and shyly half-giggles, having been caught in a very personal, sensual moment. That is Tabac Blond for me. Not beautiful... something else...) I love that quote you first posted likening Carons to kaleidoscopes.
    Last edited by Sunnyfunny; 16th December 2011 at 06:56 PM.

  44. #44
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    I'm checking in for team Cocotte - alas, I slept too late this morning. Such a day! Much fun had out and about buying all sorts of festive things of tinsel and bows, until finally I , cocotte that I am, had to secretly admit that I was nearly weary, and that would never do! So I am lolling about for just a little while, for after all, we cocottes are cozy but also feisty...
    Now - I too would like to know more of the soul of the Carons - En Avion ( delicious, yet not, and so much more, I know, I know! ) the truly great perfumes deserve to be known, and I was going to say understood, but is understanding them truly possible? Cocottes are ever so curious...
    I passed by a woman today in a bakery and was pleased to notice her wearing L'Heure Bleue. Perhaps I should have suggested she stop by and join Team Cocotte....

  45. #45

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    All fabulously interesting insights: Kumquat, I'm sure you have read my analysis of "Nuit de Noel" in Fragrance Directory: This was my Christmas Card to all Basenoters last year, and I actually wrote it on Christmas Eve. I own precisely the bottle and box the image of which you post, except mine is now near empty....as someone on your team has inherited the contents! (she knows who she is!) I think Sunnyfunny does a splendid job breaking down the magic of Caron, and making it real: I fully understand precisely what it is that is described in this post; though I have not seen the movie "Chocolat," (I did see "Melancholia," though......and don't get me started.....Very "Caron" to me, as films go.....) I can just imagine Dame Judi Dench saying and doing just as is described, and the performance being quite convincing. It is true--there is magic in these potions--and to everyone this specific magic represents something different. Kumquat and I obviously have different tatstes, which is to be expected, as I don't think I have ever smelled a perfume as vile as "Mitsouko." On that note: As stated above, it merely makes me unwell. Easy enough to do. But no perfume has ever frightened me, none save for "Narcisse Noir." When I say that I was frightened by it, I mean this literally: I had to run away from the mouillette, swab my nose several times over with alcohol, then, not to be outdone, rush to the chemists in a panic to get saline blast to clear out my nasal passages: Inhaling those vapours felt very like being invaded, raped even, by a daemon. A perfume can very easily make you sick. Scaring you to the point of blasting salt water through your nose, and into your mouth to then spit it out, not so much. For that which concerns my quote that opens this thread, let it be known that this is something Monsieur Kerleo said to me: Not something I read in a book. I have smelled some perfumes in my life--And I have known extraordinary people involved in making them: But nothing, nothing at all seems to "explain" the frenzy of Caron. Just as Ingami got a whiff of "one of ours" at the bakery, I today got a whiff of one of yours in the street, and I could smell her 400 meters away: It was early in the morning, and I was walking down the street: There were very few people out and about. The sun was rising and I got a slap across the face of that opening accord so specific to most all Carons, perfectly illustrated in both "poivre" and "Pois de Senteur," and It was so strong I thought that perhaps I had a vial in th pocket of my coat that had broken, (le MdM has always pockets full of vials) but no: It was emanating from a woman, standing alone waiting for a taxi: The scent traveled so far in free air, outdoors, that I was astounded: As I approached her, it grew stronger, and stronger. I can not say which one it was as they all have somewhat the same flight, even "en avion," (perhaps not "tabac blond") but the projection of it was something unearthly. Here is my point: As a man, and a perfume loving man, (I can be made to do just about anything with "Je Reviens") it would be impossible for me to be intimate with a woman that smelled this way: I would be so distracted that I could not even begin to connect to that place of communion that brings forth the romance of delicate, feeling and loving contact. In other words, can any of you Grande Dame team members honestly say that you find any of your Carons "sexy?" With the exception of "en avion," which admittedly I myself find quite sexy, I find all of the others, with no exception that I know of, to be the antithesis of "sexy," save for "Tabac Blond," but then, *ONLY* on a man. Naturally, all tastes vary, especially in a realm such as this. To me, the two sexiest perfumes in the world for a woman to wear, depending on her colouring, are Shalimar, and Je Reviens. (I have a review up on the latter, in case anyone is interested) In the 90's, I had a bit of a "thing" for Serge Lutens' "Femininite du Bois"--he had made a "pen" of pure perfume--and many of these pens did I use up, drawing on the bodies of playmates. Now when I smell it, as it is again available in his salon line, all I can think about is walking around Paris in "Grunge Couture" (lots of Romeo Gigli and Sybilla) being a "New Age Hippie," listening to thrash metal on my "walkman," and being very, very stoned. Female members of Team Grande dame: Tell us about how the men in your life react to your choice of Caron fragrant ehancement. There is no reason to discuss how, if and why Guerlain perfumes are sexy, as this is an unchallenged fact: The Guerlain Brothers were all raging romantics, especially Aime and Jacques, and all of their comps are designed to be inhaled up close: The exact opposite of the Henri Almeras comps for Patou, all devised to be smelled from afar: The Patou Grande Dame was considered so grand, that it was taken for granted that few would dare get too close to her, in very much the same way that it was generally accepted in the day that Queen Elizabeth the First of England had no legs, and, rather than walking, she floated.

    #16: Albadune
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  46. #46

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Camp Grande Dame (Caron: Narcisse Blanc and Alpona)

    Grande Dame: Unusually, boldly and confidently sexy. The men in our lives react to us, not to our enhancements.
    Cocette: Stereotypically sexy.

    I forbid you to demerit us.

  47. #47

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Quote Originally Posted by seattlelight View Post
    Camp Grande Dame (Caron: Narcisse Blanc and Alpona)

    Grande Dame: Unusually, boldly and confidently sexy. The men in our lives react to us, not to our enhancements.
    Cocette: Stereotypically sexy.

    I forbid you to demerit us.
    Oh, now that's a hot one, right there. "Stereotypically sexy," are we? Care to have a look at my profile page, Seattlelight? I sense a bit of self defensive behaviour emanating from you GD's. Mind boggling that you would be victim to the daft thought process that would lead you to "forbid" us from issuing demerits. You are quite right, though: Men in your lives do react to you, and not your enhancements: here's an example. Team Grande Dame just got another demerit for inexcusable arrogance and blithe disdain on the part of team member Seattlelight, resulting in current score stats:

    Team Cocotte: 8
    Team Grande Dame: 5

    One of the things that seems to escape your lot is that we Cocottes would never throw an insult and dictates in your face like the ones illustrated above. Stereotypically sexy, indeed. "Stereotypically Sexy" does not make the grade for us, Seattlelight. We don't even know what "Stereotypically Sexy" is. Perhaps you might consider going off and making attempts at intimidating and bashing Team Harlot, disciples of the chanel woman. They're so easy.
    Cocotte Team Member Rubegon, you are kindly called to the forefront: You, a red blooded male, are invited to ponder on what it is in the scent of a woman, or a man, that you find attractive: Attractive being the key word here, and what it is that perhaps you may find somewhat repulsive, (other than the obvious) and then tell us about it in your own words: Fear not as all we Cocottes are behind you, and we stick up for our own. Remember: We're the ones who know the back room crowd, all the while cavorting with the front room set: We're the ones confident enough to make a roaring, cheering arrival at an important and all glittering black tie event, as recently illustrated by your writer, and, while being photographed frenetically by the press air kissing all the starlets and shaking the hands of their significant others, stop to plant a kiss on the cheek and give a wink to a member of the service staff who happened to be walking by equipped with a silver plateau full of champagne flutes: When later on I was asked by my date why "I kissed that waitress," I chuckled and said: "because she's a friend of mine. I've known her for years." In my life, I have been blessed. Blessed many times over. I may not be a Grande Dame, but guess who always gets the best table in the swellest venues, even without a reservation, never waits in a queue to get into a nightclub, and hasn't actually "paid" for a drink, in the literal sense, in any number of the best bars across the world? And why do you suppose that is? You Grande Dames, just as one of you summarily told us with regard to our Guerlains several posts above: "Keep your Carons." (and your manners that go with them...so, what is it? Classy?) We Cocottes might borrow them on occasion, even dab on a bit of them atop our copious dousings of Guerlain, we might not even be wearing perfume at all, but we will always be wearing our Politesse.

    #17: Hironocrashka

    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  48. #48
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    Rubegon, do come around - I too am interested in your thoughts on the questions MdM has asked. I was up this morning at a most ghastly early hour, so am reviving myself with caffeine, and sprays of Jicky. I must say I found something very clever and humorous to read elsewhere...I don't dare mention it here, a bit too - just a bit too much, but I was making such noise with all my
    enjoyment that I feel I must have woke the entire household. We cocottes are a goofy bunch.

  49. #49

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    LMdM, you have been duped. I was resplendent in Insolence parfum (Guerlain) when I made the above comment, and have been for the better part of a week. I was a Grand Dame in Cocotte clothing, so to speak.

  50. #50
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    I agree that Pois de Senteur is an exception in the Caron camp, for me, unwearable. Any sweet pea frag triggers a gag response. I also cannot tolerate Bellodgia. While it is a quality scent, it simply is too much of a muchness pour moi.

    I have to disagree on the Mitsouko and wonder if you have ever had the pleasure of a vintage parfum. They are not altogether rare. The scent is distinctive peach chypre. The original oak moss is the real pleasure in this one.

  51. #51

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Fantastic statement, sunnyfunny! I love the film 'Chocolat' and I can totally see your point.
    The Uber-Cocotte once agree with me that the Guerlain feminines (apart from Shalimar) have nothing 'sexual' going. It would be Caron. I also remember the uber-cocottes raving reviews and poetic words for En Avion, Pois de Senteur and I even know another one the uber-cocotte would fall head over heels in love with. Am I going to tell her which one? Aaaaaaaaaaaah..... No! Not yet! She still has to gain experience to fully appreciate the Caron in question. Meanwhile she can sniff at her bottle of L'Heure Bleue EdC, the content of which she traded away... what for? Hmmmm, Could it've been a Caron?

  52. #52
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    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Larimar View Post
    Fantastic statement, sunnyfunny! I love the film 'Chocolat' and I can totally see your point.
    It's a fantastic movie! Thank you, and

    My husband is deep into his studies and can't think about what feelings Tabac Blond evoke in him. I do know he likes it. MdM, in an effort to recover some lost points, would it help to know that I edited out a small paragraph explaining why I wish for you to keep your Guerlains (with the exception of Mitsouko, which you apparently would not miss, anyway?) Or that I just ordered myself a tube of Bal de Mai lipstick at your behest? It does look like a lovely, healthy, natural color. As far as Grande Dames being classy... I would never assume to place myself in such a category for a number of reasons, so perhaps a more fitting camp to which I should pledge my allegiance would be that of Jean Desprez. I've been living in Bal a Versailles this winter. I've always felt Tabac Blond and Bal a Versailles are sisters, of sort, along with Tabu... though Tabu does prefer a little bit different scene.

  53. #53
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    I am curious how the Coquettes feel about wearing Jicky in public. I have some in parfum which is drop dead gorgeous. I also have it in EDP. Both are sexy as all get out, but I find them over-the-top sensuous as a cat in heat. I am fearful of the stir I would create in any mixed company. There could be trouble!

  54. #54

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Well, kumquat, at least it won't last for too long when you stir the public with Jicky... given its short longevity and low projection (at least on my skin)!

  55. #55
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    Hmm... Larimar, kumquat..I must say that for the most part I wear vintage Jicky extrait, and it holds up rather well, longevity wise, and yes I expect that it has projection, but for me, I guess I could say, just the right amount. I don't want it to precede me a kilometre down the road! As for wearing it in public, definitely...it is wonderful after all. A cat in heat? Perhaps. A little friendly purring sounds interesting, so does a little trouble now and then....

  56. #56

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Uber-Cocotte reporting here. Kumquat, whatever could you be imagining? I wear so much Jicky it borders on mental imbalance. In fact, I often wonder if my nose has not been permanently altered for having religiously worn it, every single day, even when home alone, for well over 20 years. I go through at least 500ml of Eau de Parfum a year, 1000ml of Mouchoir de Monsieur "a kind of Jicky," as described by Guerlain executives and SA's alike, and probably 250ml of pure parfum, the latter being my favourite strength at this point in time: Of course, though, I am a man. Effectively, It takes a "certain kind" of woman to pull off Jicky. I know of only one that wears it with panache, and she is tall, thin, somewhat flat chested (probably a 34A) tan, medium blonde, green eyed, wears her hair in a boyish bob, and dresses beautifully: Mostly Akris, with bits of Loro Piana and Hermes. To the naked eye, it looks as if she wears no make up at all, ever, but I happen to know she wears quite a bit. She's beautiful. I've always said she would be perfectly cast as "Peter Pan" in a stage production: She has that boyishness that is not in the least bit "butch," but more alluring and sexy (from a straight man's point of view) than your typical "tomboy" type: She plays a lot of sports and has a beautiful body, her legs, always bare, are stunning: She's sort of that "perfect flapper," but naturally: No Louise Brooks, just naturally that way. As for Jicky being in and of itself sexy, well, that would be hard for me to say. It has been my signature fragrance for so long that it would be immodest of me to comment on that. I will say that no one has ever even hinted at the possibility that I wasn't sexy....and I've been called sexy millions of times....And, I do happen to love sex....if any of that helps and isn't too much information. Apparently, my house smells like Jicky, all of my clothes smell like it, even my letters and bills smell like it: People always comment on that--I'll give a present, and the first thing the recipient will say is "it smells like you." I'll send a letter: Same comment. (I do use the Jicky eau de toilette as linen spray, because that's all it's good for in its current formulation) Sunnyfunny, you are pretty funny, indeed: You needn't revoke any comment, but I do suggest you go to my profile page, click on "find all started threads" and read "the Marriage of Mouchoir de Monsieur" from start to finish. You will be most intrigued: I promise, and congratulations on ordering "Bal de Mai" (#160) in Guerlain "Rouge Automatique. It will take you about ten minutes to see that it will be your new "forever colour." You will wear it every day and want none other. You will say prayers that it not be discontinued. It will change your life.
    Kumquat, what can I say? Yes I have smelled vintage Mitsouko, and I actually find it even more offensive than the current version. I know that many consider this to be the finest perfume comp in the history of the world. Personally, I find it frankly intolerable. It could be that i am allergic to something in it. Off topic: (Sunnyfunny, you started it!) I highly recommend "Melancholia." See it on the big screen while you can. It is far beyond anything I could render in words: A masterpiece, and a study in feminine character: I could pin perfumes on each of the female leads: Perfectly delicious Kirstin Dunst, mesmerizingly torn up and high strung Charlotte Gainsbourg, with bits of her father and her mother (perfect english diction), and Charlotte Rampling! Worth it just to watch these magnificent women move and talk. People laugh at me, but I declare that were there a film in which Kirstin Dunst merely sits there and stares at the audience, gives a cough or a yawn from time to time, and it lasted for four hours, I would still sit through it. Now:

    You, Larimar, you Uber Grande Dame, You require some further thought on my part before I dare respond. You see, GD readers? This is why she is your Caron Team Leader: She's just perplexing in a way that defies logic. Stay tuned for a delayed reaction,
    Sunnyfunny, go read "the Mariage of Mouchoir de Monsieur." Seattlelight, I've not been duped. You've just been unclear. Happy to see you've come to your senses.

    #18: Hooded-Wept
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  57. #57

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    uber-cocotte reporting here. As for jicky being in and of itself sexy, well, that would be hard for me to say. It has been my signature fragrance for so long that it would be immodest of me to comment on that. I will say that no one has ever even hinted at the possibility that i wasn't sexy....and i've been called sexy millions of times....and, i do happen to love sex....if any of that helps and isn't too much information.
    yaaaaaaaaaaaaawn!!!

  58. #58

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Larimar View Post
    yaaaaaaaaaaaaawn!!!
    I could go on in further detail to prove my point. In fact, I have someone here with me who is now laughing hysterically and wishing to be allowed to write her own take on the above. In fact, I'll just let her do that: Take this, Gentleman Farmer:

    You are all nuts. He smells hot with it and without it. He sure doesn't need it but hey whatever makes him happy and I'm good to go! In fact I

    OK, then. There has just been a raucous laughing fit and a bit of hysteria accompanied first by a pillow fight and then by a kind of tug of war that has resulted in my nearly breaking my lap top. Something was about to be written that the moderators would most definitely not appreciate nor allow. Being now hard pressed to attend to other, more physical pursuits, I wish you all goodnight. Someone, who has now promised to be good, would like a final word:

    OK, no final word. So much for promises. Now I'm being taunted mercilessly. Here:

    BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  59. #59

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    ^^^ Hmmm. That sounds rather ominous, as MdM's guest sounds rather FIERCE, and as we all know, our MdM is a delicate soul. I hope he survived, and that his beloved Jicky was not his eventual undoing, contributing to his demise.

    I must go spray some Chanel to calm my fears and nerves. It is the only thing to do at this point.

    And possibly, try to find the popcorn eating smiley face that I can never find when needed.

  60. #60

    Default Re: En Avion to Nowhere

    Taking drastic measures our mdm, eh? Pass the popcorn, cello.... thanks.... mmmmmm, ummmmm ummmm....

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