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  1. #1

    Default Rules for Split Forum (Updated 1st Nov)

    Hello!

    Below is the new rules for the split board.



    Split Board Rules


    What is a split?

    A ‘Split’ is a way of sharing the cost of buying a fragrance. By clubbing together, members can each have a smaller share of a full bottle of fragrance, without the cost of paying for the whole bottle.

    The split board isn’t a place to sell decants. The idea is to club together to buy something as a team.


    Can I host a split?

    Members who meet Marketplace requirements (have made over 500 posts - or - been a member for a year - or - are a Basenotes Plus member) and have no negative feedback are eligible to host a split.

    The host of the split is responsible for:


    • managing the split
    • purchasing the fragrance
    • decanting the fragrance into suitable containers
    • packing and sending the bottles to the recipients.


    You may add the costs of obtaining the bottle, packing, postage and a reasonable amount for your time onto the costs of your splits, as long as the final price is reflected clearly in your thread. (It is suggested that you post the source and cost of the bottle, supplies, shipping, time, etc in your post, to aid buyers.)

    Do not attempt to organise a split if you cannot follow up and fulfil the split in a timely manner. If you don’t follow up, the participants of the split may leave you negative feedback.

    Before offering a split offer fellow splitters the courtesy of checking to see if there is an existing split currently in existence.



    Can I join a split?

    Any member can join a split. However, the final decision belongs to the split host. For example, If you have negative feedback the host may refuse you to join.


    Can I back out of a split?

    You can back out of a split as long as the split has not been completed. If you back out of a split after all the slots are filled, the host may leave you a negative feedback. A negative feedback may prevent you from participating in future splits.


    Rules for hosting Splits on Basenotes


    • Only one Split Thread per member. If you have less than 30 positive feedbacks, you can only host one bottle split at a time.
    • All splits must be arranged and paid for in advance of the purchase, with the cost of the bottle posted to the thread.
    • Members with negative feedback cannot host a split.
    • The minimum split portion is 10ml. (Exceptions for smaller sized, extremely expensive fragrances, will be considered on a case-by-case basis. Please contact the moderator of the Marketplace forum.)



    Feedback

    Please give appropriate feedback when you have taken part in a transaction on the Marketplace. This is the best way to help other members make decisions about who to trade with.

    With Splits, you may leave feedback when:


    • You have taken part in a transaction.
    • If a host fails to fulfil the split
    • If a participant backs out of a split once the split is complete.



    Before leaving any negative feedback, we strongly urge members to try and communicate with each other (politely and calmly) before doing so. It’s amazing how many negative situations can be resolved by talking.


    When your split is finished please delete your split thread, or edit it to reflect that the split is complete.


    * * *



    Basenotes members taking part in the Basenotes Market Place to swap, sell or buy products do so entirely at their own risk. The Basenotes Market Place is for private sale only. Basenotes does not monitor the Market Place for accuracy, quality or reliability and Basenotes cannot guarantee whether items purchased via the Market Place are safe, as described or of a certain quality. Basenotes is not responsible for the outcome of any transaction and as such offer no compensation for a bad transaction. Basenotes’ sole responsibility is to ensure that the Market Place and Feedback databases are as accurate and current as possible.



    Protecting yourself as a Split Host (These are suggestions, not rules)


    • Check the feedback scores of members who wish to join your split
    • Ensure bottles are fully secure and packaged appropriately
    • Obtain a proof of posting from your delivery service
    • Please send as soon as possible once you have received the monies.


    Protecting yourself a buyer (These are suggestions, not rules)


    • Paypal offers Protection for Buyers for items not received and items significantly not as described. You cannot use this if you pay for the item as a ‘Gift’. (Some sellers may ask for this in their conditions, and it is your responsibility to decide whether you wish to do this. In these cases the seller may add on the extra Paypal fees to the final price.)
    • Check the feedback of the member you are purchasing from and decide whether you feel happy to do business with this member.
    • If the seller does not list the source of the product, feel free to ask the seller where the product will be coming from.
    Last edited by Grant; 1st November 2014 at 01:12 PM. Reason: rules changed to actual rules, rather than proposed rules

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    Grant,

    I guess my two main concerns are . . .

    Minimum split, 20mL. There are many bottles that are only 50 mL, and less than $2.50/mL. How would this work?

    Allowing multiple people to split the same fragrance in the same geographical area. Unless it is a very popular fragrance, it may cause multiple to splits remain open longer than necessary.

    On a side note, I had asked deadidol if there was any way the character count be increased, as I have run into this wall several times.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    I'm ok with the proposed changes.

    PB - I think the proposed change is min split is 20ml regardless of the price of the bottle, but if the cost of the bottle happens to be GREATER than $2.50/ml, then you can offer the split in 10ml minimum, rather than the usual 20ml.

    Having said that, I was always thinking how we could make splits better and easier for all, while maintaining reasonable level of rules and regulations. My contention is the split sizes. 20ml sounds like a nice number that divides nicely into 100ml bottles, but it requires a 30ml decant bottle to ship. No one makes a 20ml atomizer bottles (not to mention 30ml atomizers cost nearly 3 times what 15ml ones cost). Same with 40ml splits, or if someone takes two 20ml portions - no one makes 40ml decants, you have to use 60ml bottle. The most common atomizer bottle sizes are 5ml, 10ml, 15ml, 30ml, 50ml, 60ml, 100ml. Would be nice if we could offer splits in 15ml and 30ml sizes, so that the bottle is perfectly filled with that amount and not "70%" and then having people constantly ask if 30% evaporated or leaked during shipping. I realize trying to divide most bottles into 15ml or 30ml may be problematic, (100ml bottle would be 6 x 15ml, leaving 10ml as uneven split portion). For argument sake, would anyone be opposed to running splits based on actual atomizer bottle sizes (15ml/30ml) and if there's any amount left, like the 10ml in this example - offer it as a smaller split option (one person), seeing as 10ml is also a standard atomizer bottle size? Or at least make that 10ml portion available to the splitter themselves, should they wish to keep it? Perhaps if the splitter takes the uneven size portion, they can run 15/30ml splits, but if they choose not to, then they have to run 20ml splits? Thoughts?

    UPDATE: PB, I re-read your question and I think I missed the underlying issue. Yes, if cost of the bottle is removed from the equation and we can split "even Old Spice", how do we split a 50ml bottle if the min split size is 20ml? We run into fractional split sizes no matter how you slice and dice bottles. I think it may be more logical to allow the splitter to figure out the split sizes based on the bottle itself - ie: 10ml being OK for 50ml bottles, but perhaps not so much for splitting 500ml Creed or Le Labo flacons. How about perhaps something like "any size bottle must be split at least 4-ways as the minimum split size, but not more than 10-ways" (to account for the large format bottles)?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by PalmBeach View Post
    Allowing multiple people to split the same fragrance in the same geographical area. Unless it is a very popular fragrance, it may cause multiple to splits remain open longer than necessary.
    Noted.

    On a side note, I had asked deadidol if there was any way the character count be increased, as I have run into this wall several times.
    Sadly I think it's built in to the forum software. I may have a quirky solution though, I'll come back to you on that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by remik View Post
    ... For argument sake, would anyone be opposed to running splits based on actual atomizer bottle sizes (15ml/30ml) and if there's any amount left, like the 10ml in this example - offer it as a smaller split option (one person), seeing as 10ml is also a standard atomizer bottle size? Or at least make that 10ml portion available to the splitter themselves, should they wish to keep it? Perhaps if the splitter takes the uneven size portion, they can run 15/30ml splits, but if they choose not to, then they have to run 20ml splits? Thoughts?

    ...

    UPDATE: PB, I re-read your question and I think I missed the underlying issue. Yes, if cost of the bottle is removed from the equation and we can split "even Old Spice", how do we split a 50ml bottle if the min split size is 20ml? We run into fractional split sizes no matter how you slice and dice bottles. I think it may be more logical to allow the splitter to figure out the split sizes based on the bottle itself - ie: 10ml being OK for 50ml bottles, but perhaps not so much for splitting 500ml Creed or Le Labo flacons. How about perhaps something like "any size bottle must be split at least 4-ways as the minimum split size, but not more than 10-ways" (to account for the large format bottles)?
    I've noted your point about the standard vial sizes. thank you.

    With regards to sizes, the main issue we are trying to avoid is having the split board turn in to a cover for decant sales. The idea is to buy something as a collective rather than profiteering -- so selling a 100ml bottle in 5ml sizes would be against the spirit of this.

    I think the split size should be enough so that people have a reasonable amount of the fragrance to use. How we specify this is tricky.

    (I'm mainly thinking out loud here)

    Perhaps minimum split sizes could be based on the size of the bottle so

    30ml = Maximum splits 3 (10ml each)

    50ml = Maximum splits 4 (15,15,10,10)


    Anyway, it's a work in progress so feel free to add your thoughts

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    Grant, thanks for posting at this late hour for you.

    Would love to hear any trick you may have up your sleeve. I was thinking about doing it as a Google Doc, but don't know how to integrate on here.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    Grant - I think those are fair split sizes. I completely understand about not wanting this to turn into decant sales. I really don't want to get myself into splitting 100ml bottles in 5ml increments, either. I'm leaning more towards larger decant sizes, personally. The idea was not to allow 5ml splits on 100ml bottles, it was to allow 15ml decants as min size, as that is the closest proper bottle size we could use - rather than putting 20ml of fragrance in a 30ml atomizer.

    Perhaps we still need a "size chart" like in the current rules, just without the bottle price as that seems to be going away.

    Or if that's too confusing and you want to really streamline and simplify the rules, so that people don't have to refer to the rules page all the time - I'm ok with the proposed new rules "as is" and will continue to use 30ml atomizers for 20ml splits. It was just a thought to solve the sizing problem, but I realize it introduces uneven split portions so that may be more confusing than the current or proposed new rules.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by PalmBeach View Post
    Grant, thanks for posting at this late hour for you.

    Would love to hear any trick you may have up your sleeve. I was thinking about doing it as a Google Doc, but don't know how to integrate on here.

    After your first post, there are about 6 replies until you post again. Do you need those replies?

    I suggest we delete those replies so that the first two posts in the thread are by you -- that way you can relegate less important info to the second post. (Does this make sense?)

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    I think the new rules are looking great!

    I am looking forward to how the new lift on minimum bottle size turns out. Especially as a new hobbyist and collector, I have quite a list of frags that I would love to get to cover some basic bases. I think smaller/cheaper splits would help make some of the popular designers available.

    I don't think that it would lead to profiteering. If I want to get a cheap decant and somebody is trying to make a profit on BN, I will just go elsewhere to somebody that is selling for cost. I suspect that people trying to make a buck, as opposed to help the community will naturally fall to the wayside.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by remik View Post
    Grant - I think those are fair split sizes. I completely understand about not wanting this to turn into decant sales. I really don't want to get myself into splitting 100ml bottles in 5ml increments, either. I'm leaning more towards larger decant sizes, personally. The idea was not to allow 5ml splits on 100ml bottles, it was to allow 15ml decants as min size, as that is the closest proper bottle size we could use - rather than putting 20ml of fragrance in a 30ml atomizer.

    Perhaps we still need a "size chart" like in the current rules, just without the bottle price as that seems to be going away.

    Or if that's too confusing and you want to really streamline and simplify the rules, so that people don't have to refer to the rules page all the time - I'm ok with the proposed new rules "as is" and will continue to use 30ml atomizers for 20ml splits. It was just a thought to solve the sizing problem, but I realize it introduces uneven split portions so that may be more confusing than the current or proposed new rules.
    I don't think uneven split sizes are an issue, for example for a 100ml you could do:

    Slot 1 (15ml)
    Slot 2 (15ml)
    Slot 3 (15ml)
    Slot 4 (15ml)
    Slot 5 (15ml)
    Slot 6 (25ml)

    Or

    Slot 6 (15ml)
    Slot 7 (10ml)

    As long as pricing was clear and people could see that there are some different size options available, perhaps?

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  10. #10

    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    Perhaps we could say: minimum size for splits is 15ml. What happens with the leftover bit is up to the host. They have the option to keep it in the bottle for themselves alongside their portion - or offer that as one of the splits.




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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    Grant, how about doing it based on bottle size. Since most bottles are 50mL, then 100mL, anything under 100mL do as a 10mL minimum. Anything from 100mL, do as 15mL minimum. Larger bottle sizes up to the splitter.

    Personally speaking, having 5mL to get rid of will be a pain

  12. #12

    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Perhaps we could say: minimum size for splits is 15ml. What happens with the leftover bit is up to the host. They have the option to keep it in the bottle for themselves alongside their portion - or offer that as one of the splits.
    I think it's a valid argument that decant bottles come in 15 ml. size, and that they are significantly cheaper than 30 ml. bottles. It will make life easier for the host and would lower the total cost of the split.
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I don't think uneven split sizes are an issue, for example for a 100ml you could do:

    Slot 1 (15ml)
    Slot 2 (15ml)
    Slot 3 (15ml)
    Slot 4 (15ml)
    Slot 5 (15ml)
    Slot 6 (25ml)

    Or

    Slot 6 (15ml)
    Slot 7 (10ml)

    As long as pricing was clear and people could see that there are some different size options available, perhaps?
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Perhaps we could say: minimum size for splits is 15ml. What happens with the leftover bit is up to the host. They have the option to keep it in the bottle for themselves alongside their portion - or offer that as one of the splits.
    I'm perfectly fine with both these options. They address the issue of decant bottles available on the market (15ml), uneven split sizes, and anyone who wishes to continue with 20ml splits shipped on 30ml atomizers - that's still perfectly valid under the old and new rules alike.

    I say these new rules are looking good, I don't see any other issues. Anyone else? When do you propose these new rules might be going into effect?

  14. #14

    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    As a split buyer, I'd appreciate a suggestion to split sellers that they post the source and cost of the bottle, supplies, shipping, time, etc. Most of the current sellers already do this and it is helpful information when deciding whether to participate.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by remik View Post
    I say these new rules are looking good, I don't see any other issues. Anyone else? When do you propose these new rules might be going into effect?
    Possibly Monday.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by socalwoman View Post
    As a split buyer, I'd appreciate a suggestion to split sellers that they post the source and cost of the bottle, supplies, shipping, time, etc. Most of the current sellers already do this and it is helpful information when deciding whether to participate.
    Good idea.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    My personal opinion as a split purchaser is that I'd love to see 10ml options available. I think it's a very reasonable amount of fragrance. It seems like most of us could tell easily if it ended up being simply decant sales with profit added in. Given that the bottle price must be listed and price per ml listed it ends up being clear. Many of us, because we shop alot, can't afford larger splits. There have been many I've passed on because of the larger prices. I feel like less regulation in this area would be very welcome.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    Hello Grant. I'm pleased to see the split rules get a makeover. This should make trying out fragrances much more accessible to all.

    A minimum split of 10ml sounds sensible (easy to work out, but a decent amount of fragrance), but only for EdTs and EdPs. Could some provision be made for perfumes in extrait? These very often come in tiny bottles but represent quite a big financial outlay, meaning that 10ml would be beyond the means of all but the deepest pockets.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by saminlondon View Post
    Hello Grant. I'm pleased to see the split rules get a makeover. This should make trying out fragrances much more accessible to all.

    A minimum split of 10ml sounds sensible (easy to work out, but a decent amount of fragrance), but only for EdTs and EdPs. Could some provision be made for perfumes in extrait? These very often come in tiny bottles but represent quite a big financial outlay, meaning that 10ml would be beyond the means of all but the deepest pockets.
    Hi Sam, the rules for very costly bottles was also included in the old rules, and will be kept:
    if the cost per 1ml is greater than $2.50, the minimum split portion can be lowered to 10ml (Exceptions for smaller sized, extremely expensive fragrances, will be considered on a case-by-case basis.

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    There is no cure for curiosity."
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Proposed new rules for Split Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by furrypine View Post
    Hi Sam, the rules for very costly bottles was also included in the old rules, and will be kept:
    if the cost per 1ml is greater than $2.50, the minimum split portion can be lowered to 10ml (Exceptions for smaller sized, extremely expensive fragrances, will be considered on a case-by-case basis.
    Hi furrypine. Thanks for the clarification. I did see that clause but wondered whether something could be built into the rules so that it wasn't necessary to ask permission every time. Perhaps it wouldn't be so easy to control in practice, though!

  21. #21

    Default Re: Rules for Split Forum

    I've added the new rules now. These are not set in stone, and we may change them based on future feedback.

    The changes from the proposed rules are:

    Minimum split size is now 10ml, and I've added a suggestion that splitters mention the source, cost etc of the purchase in their posts.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Rules for Split Forum

    Update: Nov 1

    Have added option for all Market Place eligible members to host a thread

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