Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 29 of 29
  1. #1
    nyneve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Riviera dei Fiori near Sanremo and Alassio
    Posts
    311

    Unhappy LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    Today Octavian Coifan, perfume historian, writer, passionate critic of
    perfumes, known worldwide thanks to his blog 1000 Parfums, was threatened to be
    sued by LVMH (French financial giant owning Guerlain), which hasn't liked some
    reviews on the new launch Idylle.

    He's risking to be sued for having expressed his views!

    Things that happened in Medieval times, but we're in XXI century, now.

    What a sadness and shame!


    Can I post a link to blog?

    http://1000fragrances.blogspot.com/
    A, quales ego mane rosas procedere vidi!
    Nascebantur adhuc neque erat par omnibus aetas.

  2. #2

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    Surprised and a bit shocked to read this. Octavian is an enthusiast who genuinely cares about Guerlain; he does post about Guerlain often and his blog posts are a mix of praise for the Guerlain wonder years and criticisms of the massive drop in quality of their recent offerings, an interesting counterpart to the fanboyish Guerlain shrines on the web.

    LVMH/Guerlain should be ashamed.
    -

  3. #3

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    Christ, what is next?
    LMVH have a blog-scouting legal team perusing the pages of the internet?

    Fuh faaaaaaahhhks sakes!

  4. #4
    kumquat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    8,601
    Blog Entries
    98

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    How bizarre! Can you give us a condensed version of his critique? I can't imagine a company thinking they could improve their image by doing this & drawing more attention to criticism.

  5. #5

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    Well what exactly are they threatening to sue over? They can't legislate against opinions. I'm sure if careful wording is used, pretty much anything said about a perfume is sue-proof.
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  6. #6

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    I think the pretext may have been image copyright violations or pre-release leaking of info on the new perfume, if I read Sylvaine Delancourt's (French) commentary correctly. She was seemingly not aware of what the legal department was doing.I think Mr. Guerlain needs to step in here
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  7. #7

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    I think the pretext may have been image copyright violations or pre-release leaking of info on the new perfume, if I read Sylvaine Delancourt's (French) commentary correctly. She was seemingly not aware of what the legal department was doing.I think Mr. Guerlain needs to step in here
    Where is her commentary please?
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  8. #8

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder View Post
    Where is her commentary please?
    It's no. 11 on the commentary list under his post:
    "désolée Octavian ,après cet échange entre passionnés , je viens découvrir ce problème ,je vais essayer de voir ce qui s'est réellement passé, j 'étais au courant de la demande du retrait de la pub par guerlain , parce que nous n'étions pas couvert pour les droits et tout avait eté annoncé avant que les journalistes ne découvre ce nouveau parfum !
    pour le reste , je suis sous le choc!! a très vite"

    And the commentary in the original post on Idylle:
    "Hi,

    This message to let you know that Guerlain (legal services) called us and asked for the suppression of the image and of the description of the fragrance.

    The info can be trusted.. but can't be written !"
    Last edited by the_good_life; 23rd June 2009 at 07:52 PM.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  9. #9
    kumquat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    8,601
    Blog Entries
    98

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan


  10. #10
    Basenotes Institution
    mikeperez23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    27,188

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    It's no. 11 on the commentary list under his post:
    "désolée Octavian ,après cet échange entre passionnés , je viens découvrir ce problème ,je vais essayer de voir ce qui s'est réellement passé, j 'étais au courant de la demande du retrait de la pub par guerlain , parce que nous n'étions pas couvert pour les droits et tout avait eté annoncé avant que les journalistes ne découvre ce nouveau parfum !
    pour le reste , je suis sous le choc!! a très vite"

    And the commentary in the original post on Idylle:
    "Hi,

    This message to let you know that Guerlain (legal services) called us and asked for the suppression of the image and of the description of the fragrance.

    The info can be trusted.. but can't be written !"
    What is she saying, can someone translate (non-French speaker here)?
    "You are here to enable the Divine purpose of the Universe to unfold. That is how important you are."

    -- Eckhart Tolle

  11. #11

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    This is simply atrocious ! LVMH has no decency.

  12. #12
    kumquat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    8,601
    Blog Entries
    98

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    First the free market, then the free press, tomorrow... THE WORLD!!!!!
    Last edited by kumquat; 24th June 2009 at 06:18 AM.

  13. #13
    Pollux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    http://goo.gl/1zgdDl
    Posts
    3,584

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    For non-French speaking BNoters, a literal translation form www.translate.google.com:

    "Sorry Octavian after this exchange between (passionnés = lovers), I just discovered this problem, I will try to see what really happened, I was aware of the demand of withdrawal of advertising by Guerlain, because we were not covered for the rights and everything had been announced before journalists discovered this new fragrance! For the rest, I'm in shock!..."

    ...
    Last edited by Pollux; 24th June 2009 at 03:22 AM. Reason: Mistaken information erased

  14. #14

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    Hmm, yes I see. He did actually acuse them of stealing which is a hazarous turn of phrase. While I'm more than willing to believe that he is correct, more carefully chosen words would surely prevent this? It would be VERY difficult for him to prove in court that Guerlain had stolen intellectual property. Perhaps it would be better to just point out the similarities without making the direct "stealing" accusation?

    Having said that, LVMH / Guerlain are being very foolish and unpleasant in their approach in my opinion and a mass emailing campaign expressing support for Octavian and expressing a campaign of boycott of LMVH may well be in order.
    Last edited by hirch_duckfinder; 23rd June 2009 at 09:12 PM.
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  15. #15

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    This type of case is nothing new. Here in the United States, it's increasingly common for bloggers and review writers to post a negative review and then get hit with a lawsuit. A Yelp user in San Francisco was sued over a negative review of a chiropractor due to a billing dispute by the chiropractor's office for defamation. (CNET News has more here.)

    Honestly, I'm not sure that we should treat this with a boycott. Not only is this type of lawsuit nothing new, but this isn't a US-based lawsuit, and I don't know French free-speech laws and if/how they differ from the US First Amendment. Also, LVMH owns a lot of brands in Basenoter wardrobes... not just Guerlain, but Acqua di Parma, beneFit, Dior, Givenchy, Kenzo, etc. And they also own Sephora Americas and Sephora Europe/Middle East/Asia as well. Think about it: could you really throw out/sell all those scents all at once and quit shopping/browsing at Sephora (a favorite retailer of many Basenoters) at the same time?
    Last edited by MFfan310; 27th June 2009 at 03:04 AM.
    Top 5 for Winter:
    1) Straight to Heaven - By Kilian
    2) Back to Black - By Kilian
    3) M7 (vintage or Oud Absolu) - YSL
    4) Aventus - Creed
    5) John Varvatos Vintage

    My mission statement: "I am not afraid to keep on living - I am not afraid to walk this world alone."

  16. #16
    L'amour fait songer, vivre et croire. Il a, pour réchauffer le coeur, un rayon de plus que la gloire; et ce rayon, c'est le bonheur. (Victor HUGO)

  17. #17
    kumquat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    8,601
    Blog Entries
    98

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    I wish I could translate what Merchant Loup, obviously the Guerlain lady, who is hoppin' mad, is saying. Anybody?

  18. #18

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    LVMH is a lousy corporate giant trying to step on an enthusiastic blogger. Disgraceful!
    One would think they'd be too busy removing the oakmoss from the Mitsouko bottles (before IFRA regulations end the world as we know it) to be worried about such small potatoes.

  19. #19
    Pollux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    http://goo.gl/1zgdDl
    Posts
    3,584

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    Quote Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
    First the free market, the the free press, tomorrow... THE WORLD!!!!!
    Kumquat, aren't Pinky and The Brain major LVMH stockholders?

    Seriously, you can habe an idea of what MechantLoup wrote if you translate her posts in www.translate.google.com.
    Last edited by Pollux; 24th June 2009 at 03:25 AM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    Utterly distasteful. I suppose Guerlain is going to start blaming poor sales on the evil bloggers who unfairly review their releases.

  21. #21

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    Dear Basenoters, some of you may know me as the author of the blog Grain de Musc. I can't recall having posted on Basenotes but this affair concerns a dear friend of mine, Octavian.

    First of all, Kumquat, Méchant Loup is not affiliated to Guerlain -- he wishes. He's just another French blogger and aspiring perfumer: I know him personally and can vouch for his identity. He was one of the bloggers who was asked to remove the Guerlain ad from his post.

    Secondly, Sylvaine Delacourte was absolutely not aware of what was going on: Octavian, I and most of the Paris bloggers had just spend an afternoon with her on Monday, in an informal, non-Guerlain get-together to explore new raw materials and smell vintage Guerlains. She is as shocked as we all are.

    Thirdly, I think the content of Octavian's post is what fired off the legal department rather than the use of the visual: the wording was very strong.

    Clearly this is outrageous, and very poor judgment on the part of whoever is behind Blogger's message to Octavian. I find this very alarming, because I believe this type of intimidation tactic will become more common in the future.

  22. #22

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    I saw this post on 1000 fragrances last night and thought it was very sad , that for expressing an opinion one can be shot down . Especially as you can tell from reading Octavians' posts he is very passionate about Guerlain .... its just sad

  23. #23
    kumquat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    8,601
    Blog Entries
    98

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    carmencanada, Thank you for clearing that up. I only know a smattering of French, which is, as they say, a dangerous thing! It's too bad that those who are representing Guerlain seem to be working at cross purposes. All this confusion could have been avoided if they had taken as much time & trouble planning the release of the scent as they are now doing with this obnoxious law suit threat.

    It all looks like a 'Tempest in a tea pot' to me. Oh, how the mighty have fallen! By the looks of those notes, another uber-sweet fragrance aimed at 14-20 yr olds. How unique! I would never have known or cared about it anyway if this big hoo-ha had not arisen.

    How about a re-release of one of the classics, say Djedi, in a bottle that costs less than a week on a private yacht?

    Heck, whip up a batch and put it in a jelly jar for me and I'm good!
    Last edited by kumquat; 24th June 2009 at 11:27 PM.

  24. #24

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    Now I have a better overview of the whole affair and I can state that there is no lawsuit threat against Octavian Coifan.
    Blogger.com, at the behest of Guerlain, asked him to remove the picture of the ad and the description of the scent for copyright reasons.
    The legal service of Guerlain had directly contacted another French site, auparfum.com, to ask them to remove the same image and info.
    The first two "leaks" came from the online edition of the French business monthly Stratégies and the British online merchant Escentual, which is where all the bloggers got the info.

    The tactics are heavy-handed and clearly at cross-purposes with the PR, but bloggers have been asked before to remove ads, so they're not entirely new.

  25. #25

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    I was going to mention that Escentual had pics and preorders up a couple of weeks back but has since been removed . I think that Mme Delacourte has handled the whole situation with the upmost respect and with great dignity , kudos to her

  26. #26

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    i was very angry with guerlain when i read it.

    the original post is now removed, and octavian states: "I erased the content on 24th of june 2009 because I do not approve the unethic policy of Guerlain, their reformulated products unfaithful to the original and the constant misinformation of the public, their price policy and their relation with the new medias."

    this is so unfortunate and sad.
    but i guess guerlain gets what they deserve.

  27. #27

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    Sorry for mingling into this thread, but isn't this lawsuit an unrighteous, almost illegal action against the freedom of speech?

  28. #28

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    This is terrible, but in a way it's a compliment to Octavian. They're taking him seriously, as well they should.

    Gosh, I wouldn't have paid much attention to the alleged infringement if they hadn't made such a deal about it.

  29. #29

    Default Re: LVMH vs Octavian Coifan

    It's been 3 years now. Any news about that subject?
    http://bleauog.blogspot.com/ - my blog

Similar Threads

  1. Octavian & Denyse on French radio!
    By Marcello in forum General Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 18th May 2009, 11:49 AM
  2. LVMH scrap Fendi's fragrances
    By Grant in forum Female Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 11th February 2009, 06:56 AM
  3. LVMH to acquire 50% share of Russia's Ile de Beaute
    By Grant in forum General Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 25th September 2008, 09:10 PM
  4. eBay fined by French court over LVMH fakes
    By Grant in forum Basenotes Articles
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2nd July 2008, 06:01 AM
  5. LVMH relaunch classic Pucci fragrance
    By Grant in forum Female Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 7th June 2007, 04:10 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000