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  1. #1

    Default Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    I'm talking about Poivre by Caron.
    There may be pepper in it but the opening is all cloves followed by a spicy heart.
    Not sure which flowers but i get wifts of tuberose, carnation and maybe geranium giving it that sparkling sensatio.

    I wonder why this doesn't get much attention on BN.

    Also, it's times like these I wish we had a unified section of the forum. So the ladies can join in too without needing to duplicate the thread.
    Last edited by hedonist222; 6th January 2012 at 07:09 PM.

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    I got the same impression from Poivre as you, hedonist.

    I'm trying to be active on both the male and female forums, there are forums which I find interesting / can contribute to in both sections.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    So after reading a little I see perfumeshrine saying there is carnation in here.

    The clove accord has transitioned from a boil to a simmer now (30 minutes later) but its presence is still there.

    I now smell spiced flowers. The spiced floral accord reminds me deeply of Grossmith. In terms of blend method not direct resemblance olfactory wise.

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    I don't see any gender distinctions in perfumes, so I keep forgetting there _is_ a female forum. I think I've looked at it twice since discovering basenotes.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Funny, with the risk of getting a bit off-topic, I had the same feeling, this time about a male scent: Tabac Original is one of THE most clove-laden, clove-scented male frags

  6. #6

    Default Re: Should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    I agree hedonist, it feels like a straight up clove oil. I think there is definitely geranium besides the carnation in it. Slightly incensey? Honestly, this is too much for me... I could only picture myself wearing this walking through the deep snow at -10 degrees C. It takes a very long time to the deep base where it mellows out enough for my taste. It is delicious then. The vintage Poivre was more a peppery carnation, dark rose thing... somewhere not too far away from Or et Noir today minus the marron glacÚ accord. I find today's Poivre bold and daring, so I was underwhelmed by the vintage.
    PS: Hedonist, don't you want to add the word Poivre to the title, so it can be more easily retrieved later when using the search function?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_Russell View Post
    Tabac Original is one of THE most clove-laden, clove-scented male frags
    Have only tried this on two occasions but the clove in this one does pack a punch.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by Merely View Post
    I don't see any gender distinctions in perfumes, so I keep forgetting there _is_ a female forum. I think I've looked at it twice since discovering basenotes.
    Sorry friends, off topic but the posters here on this thread will understand....

    Merely, I agree with your comment about gender disctinctions in fragrance. Sadly I cant say the same about the forums! Maybe you should visit us more over at the girls forum. The culture there is very different, and anyway all the most attractive men contribute there! Isn't that right boys?

    Fabulously interesting thread boys. Can't help but to want to try it.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by Foustie View Post
    Merely, you should visit us more over at the girls forum... and anyway all the most attractive men contribute there! Isn't that right boys?
    Of course, most attractive, charming, handsome... XXX
    In fact, I felt a bit sorry, hedonist did not post this thread on the girls' side as I feel it would be better off there.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_Russell View Post
    Funny, with the risk of getting a bit off-topic, I had the same feeling, this time about a male scent: Tabac Original is one of THE most clove-laden, clove-scented male frags
    DO you mean Tabac Blond in original formula?
    If so I haven't smelled it but the current TB isn't too intense in clove, in fact I don't recall smelling cloves in TB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larimar View Post
    I agree hedonist, it feels like a straight up clove oil. I think there is definitely geranium besides the carnation in it. Slightly incensey? Honestly, this is too much for me... I could only picture myself wearing this walking through the deep snow at -10 degrees C. It takes a very long time to the deep base where it mellows out enough for my taste. It is delicious then. The vintage Poivre was more a peppery carnation, dark rose thing... somewhere not too far away from Or et Noir today minus the marron glacÚ accord. I find today's Poivre bold and daring, so I was underwhelmed by the vintage.
    PS: Hedonist, don't you want to add the word Poivre to the title, so it can be more easily retrieved later when using the search function?
    I dont get the incense much. I mostly get a big dollop of clove, geranium and carnation.
    Ill try to change the title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larimar View Post
    Of course, most attractive, charming, handsome... XXX
    In fact, I felt a bit sorry, hedonist did not post this thread on the girls' side as I feel it would be better off there.
    Posted over there.

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  11. #11

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    If the Poivre (parfum) has too much of a punch, try the EDT of Poivre, which is called Coup de Fouet. Much milder.

    Both of these are urn scents and cannot be bought at stores or e-tailers like Pour Un Homme or Le 3eme Homme (The Third Man).

    I happen to like both Poivre and Coup de Fouet.

    It takes time to get past the heavy clove opening.

    (And the boys are welcome to post and chime in with the ladies! )

    You can buy this at the Caron boutique located in the Phyto Universe spa in New York. Diane is the manager and is very helpful. They will custom decant a bottle of scent for you with mail order.

    They can be reached at 212-308-0270.
    Last edited by Primrose; 6th January 2012 at 07:44 PM.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Primrose, I personally love the intense clove accord. Its what was missing from the niche world. Other than this, I think only Eau Lente by Diptyque was this centered around cloves.

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post
    Primrose, I personally love the intense clove accord. Its what was missing from the niche world. Other than this, I think only Eau Lente by Diptyque was this centered around cloves.
    Hedonist, it's nice to recall that cloves were a traditional perfume (and medicine) in the Middle East for centuries!

    I love the smell of cloves, too! It seems like the trendy note now is oud (agarwood) and one Tom Ford SA told me that Tom Ford was the first to use this note.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Hedonist, if clove is of particular interest to you, how about Heeley Esprit De Tigre?

  15. #15

    Default

    For clove, you can't beat Eau du Hednic, otherwise known as Gengis Khan

  16. #16

    Default Re: Should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_Russell View Post
    Funny, with the risk of getting a bit off-topic, I had the same feeling, this time about a male scent: Tabac Original is one of THE most clove-laden, clove-scented male frags
    I think that the Tabac mentioned by Ken is not Tabac Blond, which is a leather/iris.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by Primrose View Post
    Hedonist, it's nice to recall that cloves were a traditional perfume (and medicine) in the Middle East for centuries!

    I love the smell of cloves, too! It seems like the trendy note now is oud (agarwood) and one Tom Ford SA told me that Tom Ford was the first to use this note.
    Yes and is used in medicine till today. Haven't you people noticed Dentists' offices smell like cloves?
    Cloves are a natural anesthetic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Foustie View Post
    Hedonist, if clove is of particular interest to you, how about Heeley Esprit De Tigre?
    Ill get this on my to try list. Is it a medicinal or an herbal take on clove?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marais View Post
    For clove, you can't beat Eau du Hednic, otherwise known as Gengis Khan
    Genghis Khan is like a unicorn. Heard of but never smelled, er,


    Quote Originally Posted by Primrose View Post
    I think that the Tabac mentioned by Ken is not Tabac Blond, which is a leather/iris.
    Thats what I thought.

    Maybe Ken meant the original formula? Even then I doubt it.

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post
    I'm talking about Poivre by Caron.
    There may be pepper in it but the opening is all cloves followed by a spicy heart.
    Not sure which flowers but i get wifts of tuberose, carnation and maybe geranium giving it that sparkling sensatio.

    I wonder why this doesn't get much attention on BN.

    Great question.
    I smelled this for the first time two days ago, and really liked it, surprisingly. I didn't really think of myself as much of a carnation person, but I was wrong. The weather that day was about 12 degrees F, and it is just the warmest spiciest most delicious Caron clove/carnation. It really is wonderful, plus they were packaging it, at one point, in a shrine of timeless baccarat. So if you ever come across one of those, you're lucky. No clue why it doesn't get more attention, but I do think Tabac Blond is the attention hog.

    Dans La Nuit Vers Le Jour Sans Adieu Je Reviens Vers Toi.


  19. #19

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Patchouli and cloves are the two notes I can't quite bring myself to wear. Almost vulgar, given their successive associations with the doused handkerchiefs of hippies and toothache.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by Merely View Post
    Patchouli and cloves are the two notes I can't quite bring myself to wear. Almost vulgar, given their successive associations with the doused handkerchiefs of hippies and toothache.
    What a shame. Maybe try again for new associations? I know olfactory memories are strong, but they can be replaced with new memories. Coconut notes, for instance, always remind be of dog-bathing, as we once used a shampoo with coconut scent. Result? The smell of fur (which I like on a living animal) and coconut! A trip to Hawaii cured me of those associations: beaches, suntan lotion and the glory of diving and snorkeling in clear water with colourful fish.

    Quote Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post
    Yes and is used in medicine till today. Haven't you people noticed Dentists' offices smell like cloves?
    Cloves are a natural anesthetic.
    Yes, hedonist, cloves are very powerful as an antibacterial agent. The Europe, orange pomanders were made for fragrance. Oranges were studded with clove "nails" (the Latin word "clavus" means nail, where we derive the English word "clove") and they will literally mummify the orange into a hard ball. We have some clove pomanders made 10 years ago and they are still not rotten or molded.

    How to make clove pomanders:

    http://www.craftideas.info/html/orange_pomanders.html

    http://www.almanac.com/content/seaso...ange-pomanders
    Last edited by Primrose; 6th January 2012 at 08:51 PM.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Poivre is shockingly similar to a custom scent I made for myself, so I can virtually guarantee that the sweet floral (not carnation which is more sappy-spicy) is ylang ylang and the earthier note at the bridge between the heart and base is vetiver. Nice scent, though I think my fragrance is better for me as a man . . . a bit less sweet ylang, more vetiver and with an herbal green top of cinnamon leaf. mmmm

  22. #22

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Serge Lutens lately did a take on the carnation/clove theme with Vitriol d'Oiellet. This does not have the "whipcrack" of clove as do Poivre and Coup de Fouet.

    I also enjoy this.

    http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/20...fragrance.html

    http://www.osmoz.com/fragrances/Perf...riol-d-aeillet
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  23. #23
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by Primrose View Post
    I think that the Tabac mentioned by Ken is not Tabac Blond, which is a leather/iris.
    In two words: Amber leather, although today it's simpler, flatter, not nearly as dark and phenolic, and leans more towards a straight amber fragrance. Basically, conformist, nothing weird or chic. I always liked Knize Ten better, and it's definitely the way to go now (although I haven't tried the absolutely most recent version of that one). I'd love to smell Knize Ten in a parfum concentration.

    __________


    Poivre has always felt more like a part of a fragrance rather than the whole thing. It never was the greatest performer but today it lacks the bite and its finish is considerably less than what it was. Still fun to smell, though.
    Last edited by pluran; 7th January 2012 at 04:28 AM. Reason: blackout

  24. #24

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleurine View Post

    Great question.
    I smelled this for the first time two days ago, and really liked it, surprisingly. I didn't really think of myself as much of a carnation person, but I was wrong. The weather that day was about 12 degrees F, and it is just the warmest spiciest most delicious Caron clove/carnation. It really is wonderful, plus they were packaging it, at one point, in a shrine of timeless baccarat. So if you ever come across one of those, you're lucky. No clue why it doesn't get more attention, but I do think Tabac Blond is the attention hog.
    I think by themselves (carnation and cloves) would be a but overwhelming or boring but blended into an accord together and with other florals I feel it allows its good facets to emerge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Primrose View Post

    Yes, hedonist, cloves are very powerful as an antibacterial agent. The Europe, orange pomanders were made for fragrance. Oranges were studded with clove "nails" (the Latin word "clavus" means nail, where we derive the English word "clove") and they will literally mummify the orange into a hard ball. We have some clove pomanders made 10 years ago and they are still not rotten or molded.
    I've been wanting to make one for a while now. Thanks for the links.

    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyBars View Post
    Poivre is shockingly similar to a custom scent I made for myself, so I can virtually guarantee that the sweet floral (not carnation which is more sappy-spicy) is ylang ylang and the earthier note at the bridge between the heart and base is vetiver. Nice scent, though I think my fragrance is better for me as a man . . . a bit less sweet ylang, more vetiver and with an herbal green top of cinnamon leaf. mmmm
    Your one sounds good too.
    I too felt that it could have been a bit more floral (less clove'y) with a rooty undertone. I didnt feel the need to have any resins in it though.

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  25. #25

    Default Re: Should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    In two words: Amber leather, although today it's simpler, flatter, not nearly as dark and phenolic, and leans more towards a straight amber fragrance.



    __________


    Poivre has always felt more like a part of a fragrance rather than the whole thing. It never was the greatest performer but today it lacks the bite and its finish is considerably less than what it was. Still fun to smell, though.
    The original Tabac Blond was loaded with animalics first of all. The leather is more obvious to me in today's formulation (sprayed).Other than that, opinions luckily differ. There are very few things in perfumery to me today that rock the house as much. It's always good for comments and reactions this way.

    Ad Poivre) Interesting what 'the bite' was for you. I found the vintage to be a peppery
    (rose) geranium and dark rose comp. in the first instance. Today's is most of all cloves, pepper and maybe something slightly incensey with the geranium and carnation to be more in the foreground at a much latter stage. There is more of a punch in today's IMO, but I'm not saying I'd prefer it.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Unfortunately Coup de Fouet(the edt Poivre) has been discontinued. I love the name Crack Of The Whip.

    I had a decant of it as well as Poivre. The latter has a warmer peppery vibe going on. But then I love my carnations to have that spicy clove vibe, unfortunately most carnations sold in flower shops have no scent now. There is a small carnation which we called Pinks(not sure if this is a local term for them), but they where the ones with the real clove spicy flower.
    DONNA

  27. #27

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post

    I've been wanting to make one for a while now. Thanks for the links.
    hedonist, if you want to make the orange pomander last, cover the entire orange with clove nails.

    Quote Originally Posted by donna255 View Post
    Unfortunately Coup de Fouet(the edt Poivre) has been discontinued. I love the name Crack Of The Whip.

    I had a decant of it as well as Poivre. The latter has a warmer peppery vibe going on. But then I love my carnations to have that spicy clove vibe, unfortunately most carnations sold in flower shops have no scent now. There is a small carnation which we called Pinks(not sure if this is a local term for them), but they where the ones with the real clove spicy flower.
    Discontinued? I see that both Poivre and Coup de Fouet are still on the Caron Web site. Strange.

    BTW, the notes for Poivre and Coup de Fouet are (from Perfume Shrine):

    Notes for Caron Poivre: (add rose for Coup de Fouet)
    Red pepper, black pepper, clou de girofle (clove), carnation, ylang ylang, jasmine, opoponax, cedar, sandalwood, vetiver, oakmoss, musk.
    Last edited by Primrose; 7th January 2012 at 07:34 AM.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by donna255 View Post
    Unfortunately Coup de Fouet(the edt Poivre) has been discontinued. I love the name Crack Of The Whip.

    I had a decant of it as well as Poivre. The latter has a warmer peppery vibe going on. But then I love my carnations to have that spicy clove vibe, unfortunately most carnations sold in flower shops have no scent now. There is a small carnation which we called Pinks(not sure if this is a local term for them), but they where the ones with the real clove spicy flower.
    I remember you mentioning the term Pinks.
    I'll ask whether my mother grew Carnations this winter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Primrose View Post
    hedonist, if you want to make the orange pomander last, cover the entire orange with clove nails.



    Discontinued? I see that both Poivre and Coup de Fouet are still on the Caron Web site. Strange.

    BTW, the notes for Poivre and Coup de Fouet are (from Perfume Shrine):

    Notes for Caron Poivre: (add rose for Coup de Fouet)
    Red pepper, black pepper, clou de girofle (clove), carnation, ylang ylang, jasmine, opoponax, cedar, sandalwood, vetiver, oakmoss, musk.
    I don't recall seeing the CdF urn at the two Caron boutiques here in Dubai. They had the whole range in urns except poivre which was in the metal canister (they'd decanted some into a proper Caron bottle for testing).

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  29. #29

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post
    I don't recall seeing the CdF urn at the two Caron boutiques here in Dubai. They had the whole range in urns except poivre which was in the metal canister (they'd decanted some into a proper Caron bottle for testing).
    Thank you, hedonist, for the report. It looks like we will have to start investigating this. Lovers of clove will need to take note.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Les Senteurs put up on their website that CdF was being discontinued early last year.

    Unfortunately the Caron website is never the best at putting up new fragrances or removing ones they have discontinued.
    DONNA

  31. #31

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by donna255 View Post
    Les Senteurs put up on their website that CdF was being discontinued early last year.

    Unfortunately the Caron website is never the best at putting up new fragrances or removing ones they have discontinued.
    Donna, thank you for the update on this.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  32. #32

    Default Re: Should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post
    Ill get this on my to try list. Is it a medicinal or an herbal take on clove?.
    Hi Hedi, Medicinal - straight up gum numbing tincture of cloves.

  33. #33

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    The modern Poivre is such a different beast from the older formulations. The modern is a lot like Comme des Garcons Eau de Parfum or Ava Luxe Kretek, where as the vintage was more similar to other Carons in the line ( rose-carnation Caronade ). As far as I can tell it's always been more about cloves than pepper, however, in all three formulations I've sampled.

    I understand the appeal of the new juice ( it's not a favorite, but it's alright ), but I miss the old stuff, too. If you're curious, Hedonist, PM-me and I'll send you a sample of vintage Poivre that Larimar sent me, from its rosier days.

  34. #34

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Thanks Sugandaraja. I may just take you up on that offer.

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  35. #35
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    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    donna 255, I know just what you mean about the pinks, some of them smell wonderful. I can grow dianthus ( pinks ) very well here in this area and am always on the lookout for the most fragrant ones. The spiciest ones are hard to come by but I'm working on it! I may have to get a sample of the Caron Poivre just to have a sniff..I don't know if I'd want to smell like it personally, but it would be nice to have it around just to get a whiff once in awhile!

  36. #36

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Has anyone tried blending Poivre with a bit of Bellodgia? A more multifaceted Poivre would be delightful!

  37. #37

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    I use a little SL Sa Majeste La Rose with Poivre to add more rose.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  38. #38

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by Primrose View Post
    I use a little SL Sa Majeste La Rose with Poivre to add more rose.
    Sounds beautiful - the SL could hold its own with the Poivre.

  39. #39

    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    I hate to eat anything that tastes of clove but the smell is another matter. I'm always disappointed when perfumers insist that carnations smell like cloves. LOL. The only carnation frag that I ever smelled that actually smelled like a big bouquet of carnations was WHITE CARNATION by Ava Luxe. Not a clove in sight. It was wonderful.
    As for Caron, I have never had the pleasure of trying POIVRE but I do have a small decant of COUP DE FOUET (maybe my favorite frag name ever!). It is cloves alright. I don't smell pepper or carnation. But behind the clove is a host of luscious supporting florals that makes the aroma sublime IMHO.
    Everyone who I have gotten to comment on my wearing it all say the same: It smells like cloves.
    Oh well. I enjoy it anyway.
    "Ca sent les pieds!"

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Poivre - Caron should have been named Girofle (cloves)

    Yes I can confirm that clove essential oil smells very different from carnation absolute, for example. Carnations have a subtle waxy aroma that is definitely captured to a great extent in the natural extract. It's much softer, rounder, and of course more floral than clove, although I do see the mild similarities between the two and can see why perfumers love to combine them. It reminds me a little of how chefs love to combine butter and olive oil, or orange zest and Grand Marnier in a dish.

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