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  1. #121
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - Discussion thread (Temporary partial version)

    Chris,

    I just wanted to add my thanks to the already large number of posters who have done so.

    This is quite possibly a series of stupid questions / scenarios, but I'm still struggling to understand why the large companies (Chanel, Guerlain, Givenchy etc.) are willing to be members of a volunteer organization, when they need to alter their products so much in order to do so ? Surely they have the size, money and clout to set up a "rebel" organization, that can maintain and sell their fragrances as their designers originally intended ? Why not put a warning label on the packaging and keep the original ingredients ? Why not get customers to sign a waiver saying they are happy to use this fragrance with original ingredients intact ? The whole science of one person in a million suffering a mild rash because of too much oakmoss etc. , and using this as a justification to destroy decades old beautiful fragrances, is sickening.

    My 2 cents.

  2. #122
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - Discussion thread (Temporary partial version)

    The bigger a company is, the more countries they sell in, and the more regulations they have to deal with, so it (sadly) makes sense for them to comply with the strictest from the outset. But smaller companies that only sell in the US, for example, often ignore the IFRA entirely or simply indicate which perfumes contain substances of concern, much as you suggested.

  3. #123

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - Discussion thread (Temporary partial version)

    While I know the IFRA controls most perfume ingredients, what about things like musk ambrette, costus, cade oil, tagettes, etc? Are there other regulations that control these?

  4. #124
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - Discussion thread (Temporary partial version)

    Paul P,

    Interesting question and it's difficult to answer by others but by the companies themselves.
    But if I may speculate, many of these companies are not owned by the same "family" owner or their descendant anymore, and even if they are, some of them have gone to stock market, so income is more important than aesthetic art.
    The perfumers may suffer their creativity, but they also need money, and which companies don't like to make more money.
    Despite reducing the quality by using less ingredients, the price/ bottle is not going down... so there is also a profit advantage to the companies.
    And I also "guess" that it is not that difficult (not even a nightmare) for their perfumers because they work with perfumery softwares which will probably give an error message when they plan to add ingredient more than the restriction rule (by the software algorithm designed by computer scientists in their companies) and will suggest other materials as replacers.

    Sorry for this deviation from the original objective of this thread, but I just have this thought while that question arised...and sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere.
    Last edited by anrat; 6th March 2014 at 06:12 PM.
    www.eyeofthevoyager.com (owner)

  5. #125

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Hi Chris,

    I am new to this forum and as I am preparing the launch of my own bespoke natural perfume range, I have lots of questions. There is no way I can remain below the IFRA or EU standards for my natural perfumes for the reasons explained by the thread members. But I am planning to sell my products online with adequate warnings on concentrations (and also to adapt to clients specific needs). I do 50% dilution as I prefer oily textures and use a range of indigenous plants. Is it possible to sell them online this way? Impossible to propose them in exclusive shops?
    Last edited by lpp; 24th March 2014 at 08:49 PM.

  6. #126
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - Discussion thread (Temporary partial version)

    Nadia, if the perfumes are for sale in Europe then you must comply with the EU regulation (previously a Directive), as it is a law. However, most of the restrictions aren't to do with the EU regulation but the IFRA standards. The IFRA standards may be voluntary but that's on paper. If you intend to ignore them then you'd be wise to check with the toxicologist during the safety assessment.
    Last edited by Pears; 26th March 2014 at 01:42 PM.

  7. #127

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - Discussion thread (Temporary partial version)

    Well, I think I will go for a few perfumes IFRA compliant for if I can propose them in luxury shops in Switzerland, but cannot run a toxicologist assessment for each bespoke formula made by clients, it is just too expensive. Do you recommend any program that enables to put the ingredients and calculate the percentage of allergens. Not the one to help formulate the perfume, I don't use tech to formulate but just my nose. The programs the others are mentionning seems that they just forbid you to put the ingredient beyond IFRA %, not to calculate the actual amount. Besides I would need to enter manually the constituents of plants. I am using many indigenous species that are not in those programs.
    Thanks

  8. #128
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - Discussion thread (Temporary partial version)

    The source below states that although the IFRA guidelines are not enforceable by law, a safety assessor is ethically bound to abide by them. What that means exactly I don't know but it probably means that assessors are trained to follow the IFRA guidelines when assessing products. If it's not a legal requirement and assessors aren't at risk of being barred for ignoring the IFRA guidelines, then there may be some who could be persuaded to turn a blind eye but I wouldn't bank on it.

    "An important part of an assessment is to check that any perfume, essential oil or mixtures of these comply with the guidelines stated by The International Fragrance Association (IFRA). These state what materials or essential oils can or cannot be used in perfumes and their use levels. The guidelines are updated regularly. Although not enforceable in law, the assessor is ethically bound to abide by them. Some eventually do become law, for example, the restrictions on the use level of rose oil because it contains methyl eugenol."

    http://www.fresholi.co.uk/index.php?...ety-assessment
    Last edited by Pears; 26th March 2014 at 08:34 PM.

  9. #129
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - Discussion thread (Temporary partial version)

    I can't help you with the program, sorry. I'd recommend that you consult Annex 1 of the IFRA standards - 47th amendment, for a comprehensive list of the allergens in various natural materials.

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a
    Last edited by Pears; 26th March 2014 at 09:30 PM.

  10. #130

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - Discussion thread (Temporary partial version)

    Sure, without the program I will calculate manually but on 30-50 plant ingredients in a perfume and contributions that add up it looks like a nightmare. Anyway I'll give it a try. Thanks for the link.

  11. #131
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - Discussion thread (Temporary partial version)

    There is some software available but I don't have the details - it's supposed to be very costly.
    There may also be other considerations.
    This website may also be useful re. EU./links, etc.
    http://www.ctpa.org.uk/content.aspx?pageid=303

  12. #132
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - Discussion thread (Temporary partial version)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia76 View Post
    The programs the others are mentionning seems that they just forbid you to put the ingredient beyond IFRA %, not to calculate the actual amount. Besides I would need to enter manually the constituents of plants. I am using many indigenous species that are not in those programs.
    Thanks
    Why don't you enter each material in your formula into the program, one at a time? When the program stops you from adding another ingredient, you'll know which material it is and you can then consult Annex 1 to see which allergens in the material might be pushing the formula over the edge. It would be faster to use part 2 of Annex 1, half way down the page.

  13. #133

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - Discussion thread (Temporary partial version)

    Thanks Pears.I actually don't have any of these programs and your idea is good but won't work when you have several ingredients contributing to an allergen, you want to equilibrate them to keep the fragrance balanced. With the feedback I got from all participants, and I am very grateful for it as it helps a lot, I think I am going to check with some south african software designers if they cannot program me a simple database where I can enter the materials I use with their contents in allergens, and then enter my formulas and get the table calculate the % of allergen in the formula. Then I'll play myself on the concentrations to reach IFRA levels, wherever it still makes sense.That is step one. Step two, would be to gladly pay for the service offered by Sarah who owns a program to run my formula and tell me the percentage in the final product. I'll explore the question with some local IT guys and will keep you abreast if it can be useful for other people.

  14. #134
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - Discussion thread (Temporary partial version)

    Regarding cosmetic safety assessments within the EU, I've read the following on cosmeticsafetyassessment.com:

    "Fragrance oils may be added.......providing the following criteria are met.......The fragrance oil must be obtained from a EU registered supplier"

    Does anyone know if this requirement applies to all perfumes sold within the EU? Or perhaps it's just this company's policy? Can you not use any fragrance oils or aroma chemicals unless they're bought from an EU registered supplier?

  15. #135

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - Discussion thread (Temporary partial version)

    I guess it's about the possibility of tracking the production chain. A perfume oil is already a finished product. The producer has quite likely obtained material from a third party. If you are able to get the safety data sheets of each and every material contained in this perfume oil, you may be allowed to use it. Given the used ingredients of your perfume oil are conform with EU standards.


    @Nadja76 and all:

    I compiled a list regarding the percentage of allergens in several materials. By simply copying and pasting the data from TGSC – as their data is not bullet-proof it should be used with a grain of salt. But it could be a starting point and I'd be happy to share this list to spare others this tiring work. Provided that it it is of any help.
    Last edited by Graphite; 31st March 2014 at 12:50 PM.

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