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  1. #61

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Maybe this can be the beginning of a (or another) discussion on the fact that even though IFRA doesn't make laws but just "suggests" to follow its rules, the vast majority of perfumers follows it slavishly. And maybe we would like to see if some independent perfumer would be able to survive ignoring it.
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  2. #62

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    I’m not sure if you’ve had a look at my site, but I remember writing about my Equisetum fragrance (a classic masculine aromatic FougŤre) that it has ‘maximum permitted levels of oakmoss’, which it does. When I designed it originally it was for a commission (in the end the client chose something else, so I was free to market Equisetum) and the original design had a lot more oakmoss - about 10 times as much in fact - for the retail product I had to replace most of it with a synthetic substitute.

    The point of this ramble is that I’ve been wondering about putting a note on the site to say that you can have the original, non-compliant, formulation if you specifically request it. My thinking being that a specific request like that would constitute consent to exposure to more than the usual amount of the potential allergen and so protect me from lawsuits. I’m not sure whether there is really that much market for it though - other than a few Basenotes aficionados that is.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  3. #63

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    You made a good choice of course, it's always better to preserve your business, especially in this tough period.
    What bothers me is that, as I can understand, a perfumer wouldn't do anything illegal by simply don't accomplishing IFRA standards, but the power of IFRA components is able to exclude him from the market if he tries to.
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  4. #64

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Have a look at the outlaw project here

  5. #65

    Wink Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Itís a good project and Iím broadly in agreement with itís premise - had it been run by an organisation open to people who also use synthetics Iíd have been inclined to join in the project. Perhaps I should start a new organisation: The Unnatural Perfumers anyone?
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  6. #66

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    I quote Chirs entirely, nothing to add.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    Perhaps I should start a new organisation: The Unnatural Perfumers anyone?
    If you do, you have my support
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  7. #67
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    hello may i ask one dummy question since when these IFRA rules apply? from which year and month on? is it july 2010? so that i know how to use that in buying parfumes i still can find some produced 2009 and 2010 january....i suppose....
    and for example would you recommend shalimar 2009 or new one from 2011? what materials changed? bergamot oil? thank you!

  8. #68
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    hello may i ask one dummy question since when these IFRA rules apply? from which year and month on? is it july 2010? so that i know how to use that in buying parfumes i still can find some produced 2009 and 2010 january....i suppose....
    and for example would you recommend shalimar 2009 or new one from 2011? what materials changed? bergamot oil? thank you!

  9. #69
    DON'T DRINK AND DRESS

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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary




    Apparently the FDA doesn't consider Methyl Merthacrylate, Barium Sulfate, Zinc Oxide and Eugenol a problem to mix together and put into the mouth. This is for sale nationally in the USA. The IFRA would hemmorhage if these ingredients were offered in a wearable fragrance.
    Our job is to live joyfully in this world of sorrows--Joseph Campbell

  10. #70
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Lag problems lead to double posts.
    Our job is to live joyfully in this world of sorrows--Joseph Campbell

  11. #71

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Mr. Bartlett when you say the percentages apply to the finished product what do you mean? For example if I have 100 grams of a cologne, the Lyral this cologne can contain is 0,2 grams of undiluted Lyral?
    Thank you!

  12. #72
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Perhaps the Supernatural Perfumers could use a guild as well, seeing as the IFRA hasn't placed any restrictions on mojo, fairy dust or ectoplasm (yet). [CUE the theme from X-Files.]

  13. #73

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Quote Originally Posted by princeOK View Post
    Mr. Bartlett when you say the percentages apply to the finished product what do you mean? For example if I have 100 grams of a cologne, the Lyral this cologne can contain is 0,2 grams of undiluted Lyral?
    Thank you!
    Yes thatís it exactly. Equally if you were making a 250gram shower gel, you could have a total of 0.25grams of oakmoss in it (the restriction for category 9 being the same, in this case, as for category 4 at 0.1%)
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  14. #74

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Quote Originally Posted by BoisLeLe View Post
    Perhaps the Supernatural Perfumers could use a guild as well, seeing as the IFRA hasn't placed any restrictions on mojo, fairy dust or ectoplasm (yet). [CUE the theme from X-Files.]
    I rather like the sound of fairy dust perfume, but donít tell IFRA - itís dangerous stuff you know
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  15. #75
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    But apparently not as dangerous as galbanum, in my case!

  16. #76

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Sorry it’s taken so long to get back to this, but I’ve added another batch of entries this morning. These all come from the list of Prohibited standards:

    I’ve added Acetyl isovaleryl; Allyl heptine carbonate; Allyl isothiocyanate; Amylcyclopentenone; Anisylidene acetone and Asarone

    Of these Asarone is of particular note because it is one of those where there is what amounts to a specification standard, hidden in the Prohibition standard - you do begin to wonder if IFRA do this sort of thing in the hope of catching out an unsuspecting perfumer - anyway the essence of it is this:

    cis- and trans-Asarone as such should not be used as fragrance ingredients; essential oils containing cis- or trans-asarone (e.g. calamus oils) should not be used at a level such that the total concentration of cis- and trans-asarone exceeds 0.01% in consumer products.
    To reflect this I’ve marked Asarone as being subject to a specification standard, even though there isn’t a separate standard and I’ve also asterisked it as being present in natural oils in the hope that will be enough to clue in anyone consulting the list in future that there is something special to look up.

    There are quite a lot of prohibition standards still to go and several of them have specification aspects.

    The world shall hear from me again!
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  17. #77

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    just when i had started wondering,

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    The world shall hear from me again!


    great.

  18. #78

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    I thought I had posted this question before but I was wrong..
    I wanted to know if those numbers refer to undiluted materials. For example a 100gr perfume can have a maximum of 0.2 grams of undiluted Lyral?
    Thank you!

  19. #79

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    You did ask that question before in another thread and the answer is yes, that is correct.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  20. #80

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Quote Originally Posted by gido View Post
    just when i had started wondering,





    great.
    For the benefit of those not old enough to remember

    The world shall hear from me again!
    comes from Fu Manchu, which I used to watch on Saturday morning cinema, when I was very young and decimalisation had not yet happened in Britain: the whole morning at the cinema cost sixpence as I remember and it was all B movies . . .
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  21. #81

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    In light of the recent attempts by Basenotes to imitate a yoyo, Iíve decided to repeat the key information here in my own blog, which Iím planning on doing with a number of the questions I find myself answering on here most often. Thatís partly so that people (including me) can get at the information easily even when Basenotes is having a server moment but also because Iíve been caught out a few too many times having typed in a long, complicated reply, only to find the site is gone or so slow that Iíve lost the work before it posts.

    In case you were worried though, I have no plans to stop responding here when itís possible to do so. Iíve felt decidedly bereft during the long, dark periods of Basenotes absence lately!

    My blog is obviously affiliated with my commercial website, but it is quite separate from it and as itís hosted by Google should be pretty robust. Itís also unlikely ever to have anything approaching the traffic that Basenotes has to handle. Fingers crossed Iím not tempting fate . . .
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  22. #82

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Quote Originally Posted by iivanita View Post
    hello may i ask one dummy question since when these IFRA rules apply? from which year and month on? is it july 2010? so that i know how to use that in buying parfumes i still can find some produced 2009 and 2010 january....i suppose....
    and for example would you recommend shalimar 2009 or new one from 2011? what materials changed? bergamot oil? thank you!
    I meant to respond to this sooner, but lost track.

    IFRA was established in 1973 and issued itís first Code of Practice in that year. The organisation that does the testing on materials, the Research Institute for Fragrance Materials (RIFM) is older, having been established in 1966. The organisation which actually makes the decisions on what restrictions should be placed is REXPAN (RIFM Expert Panel) and IFRA implement their recommendations through the Standards that are the main subject of this thread.

    The Code of Practice is now in its 46th amendment and covers 174 substances.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  23. #83

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Iíve just updated the OP to include Linalool - a rather important omission from the Specification Standards - the requirement on this one is complex, this is what it says:

    Linalool and natural products known to be rich in linalool, such as bois de rose, coriander or ho wood oil, should only be used when the level of peroxides is kept to the lowest practical level. It is recommended to add antioxidants at the time of production of the raw material. The addition of 0.1% BHT or alpha-tocopherol for example has shown great efficiency. The maximum peroxide level for products in use should be 20 millimoles per liter. The (hydro)peroxide content can be determined by using the FMA method.
    Iíve added the emphasis.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  24. #84

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Hello, thanks to everyone for this forum's help. Being a newby wanting to try and sell little 10ml bottles of roll-on oil-based perfumes, I am wading through the treacle of well, stuff, trying to get cogent replies from chemists, suppliers etc so if I may ask a question or two and also ask for forgiveness for the basic nature of them..
    If one is slightly over IFRA 'guides', let's say you use enough Cinnamon Leaf EO to take the Eugenol content to 1%, the idea of an allergen warning on the label is fine, but what do you do about that all-important safety assessment you ain't gonna pass? Wouldn't you be breaking the EU law, or would an assessment just point out the allergen levels as needing a warning?

    How about cunningly marketing your perfume oil as not for skin, but for clothes and the like, with reference to why you are not able to state it's safe for skin together with any allergen warnings.

    I originally posted a question that I've now removed. I now know the percentage of EO mix one chemist will give a (reasonably-priced) safety assessment for, namely 7.5% in a base, with further restrictions on the various oils.

    Love and peace to all
    Last edited by Sasibel; 9th August 2012 at 03:34 PM. Reason: new info

  25. #85

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    OK, I'm going to have to ask this. After long hours searching, I just can't fine this info and if anyone can help I'd be grateful. I have looked and downloaded so many irrelevant documents from IFRA's ridiculously opaque site only to find no answer. I have a spreadsheet with some info; the 47th amendment thing and can find info for the restricted, banned and the like but I would like to know how much EO is recommended to put in a mix. How much Cedar Atlas, etc. Those that are not really flagged up as allergen-rich and likely to cause serious boils to erupt; the 'safe' oils. Where do I look? I would like to know the percentages regarded as 'legal'.

    Anyone?

  26. #86

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    I'm afraid there isn't anywhere were you can look that up as such because the amount of any natural material that can be used in a fragrance and remain compliant, depends on the amount of restricted components it contains.

    So for example if you use clove bud oil that contains 90% eugenol, then you need to calculate the amount of eugenol you are adding when you add that oil, combine that with any other sources of eugenol in your formula (such as nutmeg oil for example) and ensure that the total eugenol from all sources combined does not exceed 0.5%.

    You can help yourself to identify which materials may require these calculations by looking at the Safety in use tab on The Good Scents Company pages (I've linked to the one for Clove bud oil as an example), there you will see that clove bud oil contains all these restricted materials:

    benzaldehyde Max. Found: <0.10 % and Reason: Sensitization
    benzyl alcohol Max. Found: <0.80 % and Reason: Sensitization
    eugenol Max. Found: <92.00 % and Reason: Sensitization
    iso eugenol Max. Found: <1.10 % and Reason: Sensitization
    farnesol Max. Found: <2.00 % and Reason: Sensitization
    methyl eugenol Max. Found: trace to <0.10 % and Reason: Potential carcinogenic activity in animals

    So you have to do that calculation for each of those materials to ensure you are compliant, not forgetting that in each case there may be other materials in your formula that also contain some of these same materials, thus reducing the amount of clove bud that you can use.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  27. #87

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Thank you so much Chris,

    This is exactly what I was looking for. The IFRA site and this should do me.

    So, many thanks.

  28. #88

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Chris always has a solution
    Anyway, check the good scent company and make your calculations, but be aware that you can find slightly different essential oils depending on the supplier. Just to be safe, consider always a margin of error and chose to put a little less instead of a little more. If you want to be 100% sure, require GC-MS reports to your suppliers for every raw material, and perhaps have your final product analysed to a complete check up.
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  29. #89

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Thank you,

    This is very much where I am. I needed the data for EO's to make an assessment of their allergen levels and recommended percentage levels but found the IFRA site very difficult. I was going to factor in a good level of tolerance.

    The problem is not so much getting the figures right, (difficult enough) it's getting someone to check them and give the OK without wanting a huge sum of money. Micro-business sums me up very well.

    Thank you so much for this help, both you and Chris.

  30. #90

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    There's something I don't completely get about IFRA rules: I saw in their site the list of ingredients that they officially state are used in fragrance industry. Well, I understand that any ingredient not present in that list (and neither in standards, restrictions and prohibitions) is formally IFRA prohibited, am I right?
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  31. #91

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Now that we are up again, anyone has infos about my question?
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  32. #92

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Quote Originally Posted by otocione View Post
    There's something I don't completely get about IFRA rules: I saw in their site the list of ingredients that they officially state are used in fragrance industry. Well, I understand that any ingredient not present in that list (and neither in standards, restrictions and prohibitions) is formally IFRA prohibited, am I right?
    No, that's not what it means. A material is only prohibited when there is an IFRA Prohibition Standard that says so (though beware of materials that contain a prohibited substance).

    The list of materials included in fragrances comes from a survey of manufacturers (their own members only) that IFRA conducts periodically. It is published for information and used to guide their research into the effects of ingredients. The inclusion or exclusion of something from that list does not imply any approval or restriction on its use.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

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    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  33. #93

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Oh great, so if I find on the good scents company a chemical which I'd like to use and it's not in the IFRA list, I can still use it, right?
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  34. #94

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Yes, provided that it does not contain anything prohibited: you should be fine with single molecules but check for mixtures and naturals.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  35. #95

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Yes that's clear, I meant just single molecules.
    Thanks Chris
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  36. #96

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    The following list is a useful reference, I'm putting it here because it often comes up in the context of discussion about the IFRA rules, and indeed is often laid at their door: wrongly as it has nothing to do with them at all. It is the list of items required by the EU Cosmetics Directive to be listed on the label of any fragrance that contains more than 0.001% (the threshold is 0.01% of the finished product for wash-off products such as shower gel). This regulation was incorporated into UK law as part of the 2008 Cosmetics Regulations, Schedule 4 and as such has been in force for some years.

    As a result of this requirement many brands required re-formulation of fragrances in order to avoid putting these things on the label - particularly those with long, difficult chemical names, which seem to lead certain groups of consumers to assume something is poisonous (obviously nonsense, but the power of fear is substantial). Anyway here is the full list of what is often referred to as 'the 26 ingredients'. Notice that the majority of these appear in nature as components of essential oils, absolutes and other extracts from plants. Also notice that no animal derived ingredients are included:

    Amyl cinnamal (CAS No 122-40-7)

    Benzyl alcohol (CAS No 100-51-6)

    Cinnamyl alcohol (CAS No 104-54-1)

    Citral (CAS No 5392-40-5)

    Eugenol (CAS No 97-53-0)

    Hydroxy-citronellal (CAS No 107-75-5)

    Isoeugenol (CAS No 97-54-1)

    Amyl cinnamyl alcohol (CAS No 101-85-9)

    Benzyl salicylate (CAS No 118-58-1)

    Cinnamal (CAS No 104-55-2)

    Coumarin (CAS No 91-64-5)

    Geraniol (CAS No 106-24-1)

    Hydroxy-methylpentylcyclohexenecarboxaldehyde (CAS No 31906-04-4)

    Anisyl alcohol (CAS No 105-13-5)

    Benzyl cinnamate (CAS No 103-41-3)

    Farnesol (CAS No 4602-84-0)

    2-(4-tert-Butylbenzyl) propionaldehyde (CAS No 80-54-6)

    Linalool (CAS No 78-70-6)

    Benzyl benzoate (CAS No 120-51-4)

    Citronellol (CAS No 106-22-9)

    Hexylcinnam-aldehyde (CAS No 101-86-0)

    d-Limonene (CAS No 5989-27-5)

    Methyl heptin carbonate (CAS No 111-12-6)

    3-Methyl-4-(2,6,6-tri-methyl-2-cyclohexen-1-yl)-3-buten-2-one (CAS No 127-51-5)

    Oak moss extract (CAS No 90028-68-5)

    Tree moss extract (CAS No 90028-67-4)

    My blog now has a post covering The 26 Ingredients with the above information plus some extra details and a few more links.
    Last edited by Chris Bartlett; 1st October 2012 at 05:28 PM. Reason: Added link to blog
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

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    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  37. #97

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Beginner alert:

    Does this mean that the use of certain essential oils at certain concentrations can offend the IFRA standards?

  38. #98

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Quote Originally Posted by saypo View Post
    Does this mean that the use of certain essential oils at certain concentrations can offend the IFRA standards?
    indeed. quite a few oils contain one (or more) of the listed molecules.

  39. #99

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    How would a novice, for example, know whether his or her mix of essential oils and base offended IFRA?

  40. #100

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    That's what this thread is all about: you have to know what's in your oils and how much, what is restricted or prohibited and what the restrictions are and add it all up.

    It's extremely complicated and unfortunately there is no easy answer.

    On the other hand unless you are going to sell your mix of essential oils, you don't have to comply with the standards.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  41. #101

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Out of curiosity, if I did want to sell, what is the process? Pay for a test to determine molecular composition by percentage?

    Does one need be an IFRA member to sell into retail?

  42. #102

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    In principle there is no reason that you couldn't have your fragrance analysed for compliance (though it would be very expensive) but that isn't how it is normally done. The usual method is to learn the rules and ensure compliance yourself (if you are an indie like me) or use some software to work on your formula (if you are a little bit bigger) or if you work for one of the big houses there will be an entire Department ensuring compliance, not just with IFRA but with legal restrictions in all the territories in which you sell.

    You don't have to be an IFRA member to sell fragrance and most independents are not. If you are a member compliance is compulsory, if you are not it isn't. Though in practice you couldn't get insurance for product liability if you didn't comply for retail products.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  43. #103

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    What is involved in "learning the rules," as you say? I guess the concern is knowing that it is reasonably safe for public consumption?

    The mere existence of the IFRA list is frightening in that respect, because the thought is that there is some danger to non-compliance, and the barrier to entry seems a little daunting, although maybe it is not...?

  44. #104
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    I'm a little surprised to see musk ambrette is banned, because I had thought that it was common in frags. In trying to figure out what ingredients bother me, I thought that was the one, but seeing it's banned makes me think it's probably not one of those ingredients. Does anyone happen to know when that prohibition happened?

  45. #105

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Quote Originally Posted by saypo View Post
    What is involved in "learning the rules," as you say? I guess the concern is knowing that it is reasonably safe for public consumption?

    The mere existence of the IFRA list is frightening in that respect, because the thought is that there is some danger to non-compliance, and the barrier to entry seems a little daunting, although maybe it is not...?
    The barrier to entry is indeed quite high, some would argue set that way by IFRA quite deliberately to help protect the vested interests of it's (mostly big corporate) members, though there is also a compelling argument that IFRA is fighting a rearguard action against (mainly) EU legislators, who are in turn driven by reactionary interest groups with a poor understanding of the science involved.

    Whatever you believe about the causes it's by no means impossible to get to grips with: start with the summary at the beginning of this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelee View Post
    I'm a little surprised to see musk ambrette is banned, because I had thought that it was common in frags. In trying to figure out what ingredients bother me, I thought that was the one, but seeing it's banned makes me think it's probably not one of those ingredients. Does anyone happen to know when that prohibition happened?
    Musk ambrette was a commonly used aroma chemical until the 70s but don't confuse it with the ambrette seeds (still commonly used by natural perfumers) or ambrettolide (the musk in ambrette seeds, more commonly used as a synthetic and one of the finest musks available to modern perfumers). Musk ambrette is not known in nature and was found to have both neurotoxic and photosensitising properties: hence the prohibition from the late 70s / early 80s onwards.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  46. #106
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    Musk ambrette was a commonly used aroma chemical until the 70s but don't confuse it with the ambrette seeds (still commonly used by natural perfumers) or ambrettolide (the musk in ambrette seeds, more commonly used as a synthetic and one of the finest musks available to modern perfumers). Musk ambrette is not known in nature and was found to have both neurotoxic and photosensitising properties: hence the prohibition from the late 70s / early 80s onwards.
    Hey, that was confusing me for sure. Thanks for clearing that up, Chris!

  47. #107
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    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    [QUOTE]Dear Mr. Bartlett,
    I've been working with niche fragrances for almost a year. I was always 'into' perfume since I was 7 and filched a few sprays from my Aunt Lucille's Evening in Paris. I was hooked. Since then, I've bought Men's as well as Women's Niche fragrances for my shoppe. I did give the buyers 1/5-1/2 of 1 ml of essential oils, with warnings, and a quantity of Certified Organic Cold-Pressed Argan Oi to mix with the essentials. Some of the essential oils I'd already mixed with the Argan Oil. I discontinued that practice of giving the essential oils when a friend warned me of FDA restrictions, or the possible harm they might cause. Having so much of the essential oils and extracts, plus fragrance oils, I decided to make a Vetiver fragrance oil- HOLIDAY VETIVER 2012 BY PALCHEMII. The quantity produced is less than one-half pint. The Argan Oil was used for the bulk of the fragrance oil. Pure coffee, cacao, and vanilla concentrates, fragrance oils, essential oils, plus some Eau de parfums. Some of the aforementioned have the ingredients on the' list'. Would that small amount concocted be of any interest to IFRA?
    Thank you for your diligence , fortitude and generousity of spirit on behalf of BASENOTES et al.
    Happy Holiday & Happy 2013!
    Pattease [QUOTE]

  48. #108

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    I'm sure that small an amount would be of no interest to IFRA at all: the risk is that someone has a reaction and sues - you are going to have trouble defending the case if you can't say that you complied with internationally recognised standards.

    If you are giving it away to friends & family that's a very small risk however.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  49. #109

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    That's what this thread is all about: you have to know what's in your oils and how much, what is restricted or prohibited and what the restrictions are and add it all up.

    It's extremely complicated and unfortunately there is no easy answer.

    On the other hand unless you are going to sell your mix of essential oils, you don't have to comply with the standards.
    Chris,
    Gargantuan task. Much appreciated. I took the liberty of playing with the list a little.


    If you have a few minutes.would you check the numbers for me? It will help the DIY crowd.
    I don't sell perfumes, mine are strictly for personal use and enjoyment. Others also enjoy creating scents and your blog has been a wonderful source of information. That spread sheet , should in theory, make it easier.
    Last edited by DragonN; 31st December 2012 at 04:06 AM.

  50. #110

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Hi Chris,
    Thanks for the enormous amount of information. My question is this: What if one ignores the regulations and just puts a disclaimer on the bottle? Explain how they may cause a rash or whatever is required. It seems a pity that so much good stuff is prohibited now. So if I put a little costus root in something, can I get by with it?

  51. #111

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    You are free to do that James, as long as you are not an IFRA member. However in practice that's difficult to sustain in the EU because of the need for safety assessments and in the US because you are likely to be sued and defending the case when you have not abided by the internationally recognised safety standards is going to be very difficult to say the least.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  52. #112

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Thanks Chris. I obviously need to know a lot more about this. Is it necessary to become an IFRA member? Is it difficult?

  53. #113

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    It isn't necessary, no. I'm not a member (because I want to retain the ability to produce a non-compliant blend for bespoke customers who request it, which I would have to give up as a member).

    The advantage of membership is you get substantial advance notice of changes to the standards (so members are already working to the 47th amendment which hasn't yet been published).

    The hard part is doing the calculations really.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  54. #114

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Thanks Chris. I'll start boning up on the regs.

  55. #115

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Thank you for the valuable information.

  56. #116

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    If one want to sell perfume without IFRA rules, the only way to be protected by the law is perhaps to have the client sign a discharge, or somthing like that. Plus, the list of allergens written on the bottle or packaging.

  57. #117

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    The advantage of membership is you get substantial advance notice of changes to the standards (so members are already working to the 47th amendment which hasn't yet been published).
    Are the members officially allowed to pass on that information to non-members? Not that it would matter much, I guess. I'm just curious. If it is forbidden by their rules, I wonder if there's a way to legally attack them.

  58. #118

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary

    It's been a long time since I updated this but I've just added notes on the Specification Standards for Limonene (present in citrus oils, mints and tea tree oils) and Musk Ketone (a nitro-musk that although not prohibited is now virtually unused in commercial perfumery).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasenmann View Post
    Are the members officially allowed to pass on that information to non-members? Not that it would matter much, I guess. I'm just curious. If it is forbidden by their rules, I wonder if there's a way to legally attack them.
    I don't believe there is any specific prohibition on their doing so, however it is a little bit like reading someone else's book over their shoulder - the book owner generally feels they are being cheated!
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  59. #119

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - a summary - Temp copy/paste of Discussion thread.

    This post is a copy/paste of most of the relevant Huddler period posts added to the end of the pages already here - sorry, a few posts have not been added for technical reasons.

    Unfortunately, the tables don't seem to come out very easily so there are a few screenshots.

    Hopefully, the original version will return here soon.

    lpp
    20 November, 2013.


    Tralala33 29/05/13 @ 11.58am
    Thank you for the information. Perhaps I am getting ahead of myself, for I am a newbie, but, if in my search for the perfect scentfor myself, I decide to offer it to the public, how in the WORLD does one determine the true levels of what each drop contains.

    Does this mean that Aftel or Charna Ethier all adhere to the principles? Aghhh, does one have to be a perfumer for years not to beoverwhelmed by the possibility of the perfume police knocking at the door? I am not afraid of a challenge, but it certainly doesappear to be made almost impossible to offer to the public. Is this to, as in almost everything we now, simply regulate and controleverything we do as opposed to keeping the public safe? Sorry for my naivete, perhaps I should stick to the other threads for now(and maybe take up something less complicated like brain surgery or nuclear physics)? Please advise. And again, thank you foryour prolific writing and wisdom, I find your site and comments here very illuminating and informative.

    gido 01/06/13 @ 5.01am
    just have it analysed.

    Pears 01/06/13 @ 10.25 am
    What do you do when adding cade or birch tar? The 46th amendment doesn't state how much you can use, just that the finalproduct can't contain more than 1 ppb benzopyrene and 1,2-benzanthracene. I take it that you request a certificate of analysis fromthe supplier, to work out how much you can add to the fragrance. Or you have it analyzed yourself.

    David Ruskin 01/06/13 @ 1.11pm
    Essential Oils and complex mixtures should have a MSDS certificate of analysis showing the amounts of the relevant materials.

    Pears 01/06/13 @ 2.30pm
    David, I've looked at several MSDS and none of them state the concentration of PAHs. I think that a Certificate Of Analysis or aCertificate Of Conformity is more likely to detail the level of PAHs. I've contacted my supplier of cade oil to see if they have a COA for the oil or if they know the concentration of PAHs.

    The source below, published in 2006, states that a maximum of 0.1% rectified birch tar and 0.075% rectified cade oil are allowed inthe final product. I find this confusing because the IFRA Amendment, also below, makes no mention of this and only states that nomore than 1 ppb PAHs are allowed in the final product. Perhaps the first source used information taken from before the 38thamendment in 2003, when the 1 ppb limit first came into effect. I think that this might be something that only a professionaladvisor can clear up?

    http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lQwIDQV061YC&pg=PA181&lpg=PA181&dq=cade+o il+soap+concentration&source=bl&ots=ncDoISRD3r&sig =9MP2nIOky2n_1
    HdiG72cGSbd44k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=PE9-UcKkDcKX0AW2l4HQAQ&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=cad e%20oil%20soap%20concentration&f=false


    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CFkQ FjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ifraorg.org%2Fview_docum ent.aspx%3FdocId%3D22005&ei=sthvUbPQDYql0QWE9YGQAg &usg=AFQjCNFnE3nQ4XUe4Ysj3kg6BqJ-GNTTZg

    David Ruskin 02/06/13 @ 10.27 am
    Pears you are confusing IFRA regulations with EU regulations; they are not necessarily the same. I'm not an expert on regulation,
    and when I was working our regulatory department used to issue updates as and when they were available. If the information youwant is not in the MSDS, then a Certificate of Analysis should be available.
    This is a mine field. Essential Oils will, by their very nature, differ from batch to batch, so each batch will contain slightly different amounts of restricted materials. Usually, an average batch is used as a standard, and the amount of oil allowed will be based onthat, no matter how different the real batch is.


    Irina 02/06/13 @ 12.17 pm
    What David says. I'm not sure a signature still shows with the newforum features but I wrote a detailed post on this matter that might be of help:
    http://www.basenotes.net/t/322549/ifra-restrictions-and-eu-regulations-are-not-the-same-some-facts

    Pears 03/06/13 @ 09.17 pm
    Thanks guys. I had read that coal tar, crude cade oil and crude birch tar
    were banned under the Cosmetics Directive but I haven't found any sources that state how much rectified cade or birch tar is permissibleunder the Cosmetics Directive. Other than the source that I linked to before. It makes me wonder how reliable the information is.

    Filomele 03/06/13 @09.45 pm
    IFRA = stupid industrial mafia
    I am allergic to kiwifruit, I don't eat them and I don't ask that they be prohibited in supermarkets.

    lpp 03/06/13 @ 11.17 pm
    Haha - I can't touch a strawberry without coming out in a rash - so avoid them like the plague - but have been using oakmoss since the 1970's.Which I realise is unscientific, but choice provided by adequate labelling would be my ideal - and we very carefully label food here in case of nutallergies - but we don't ban nuts which, unlike oak moss (as far as I'maware), actually cause documented cases of death.
    And I know about cumulative effects as I'm a garden fanatic and havebeen warned to wear gloves by an eminent local plantswoman...

    iivanita 16/06/13 @ 12.31 pm
    I met Maurice Roucel in Zagreb this Friday, and he said it is ok thatindustry has some standards, and things should get regulated but notover regulated, he just doesn't want to be bothered by it. What i likedthe most is that he said that perfume industry is all about marketing andchase for money, and that people don't buy perfumes based on smellingthem, but by hearing about them and seeing adds:-) and i would agree.He doesn't care about discontinued stuff, either........very very relaxed,and compared to this forum he sounds like amateur:-) he brought it allto money and simple stuff, do you make a success or not:-) i liked hisapproach to this subject, it seems IFRA is not perfumers worst worry.Also said there is no difference between niche and mass production evenin the artistic approach! They all get briefs to make perfumes for youngbeautiful successful working woman:-) ....girls without work did you hear it?

    Nasenmann 16/06/13 @ 12.31 pm
    With all due respect but I don't think this attitude represents the whole picture. There are perfumers, that are mainly into thisbecause of the art - although they certainly are a minority and rarely commercially very successful ones. Everything Maurice Roucelsays about IFRA and discontinued fragrances seems to be just an extension of his very pragmatic, money-oriented viewpoint. It'srespectable that he's so frank and clear but it just goes to show he's a (highly skilled) craftsman for the industry rather then anartist. Ask an artist and he'll probably give you very different answers. Both types have their place of course, I just don't like howhe makes it sound as if there weren't any artist at all. Maybe he's just become a bit cynical about his line of work though.

    Chris Bartlett 22/06/13
    To drag this sticky back to it's purpose, which was to inform people about the IFRA regulations, the 47th Amendment to thoseregulations was published on 19th June. I will start work on updating the summary at the start of this thread to take account of the6 new standards, 11 revised standards and a handful of other changes as soon as I have time, but meanwhile be aware that whatis here only reflects the 46th Amendment situation.

    Chris Bartlett 05/07/13
    An update on the changes in the 47th Amendment, prior to updating the summary properly. This information is taken from their notification letter implementing the standards, with additional information ferreted out by me to make it more useful.

    There are six new
    restriction standards covering these materials:
    Screen Shot 2013-11-20 at 12.45.05.jpg
    Revised standards:

    Screen Shot 2013-11-20 at 12.45.55.jpg


    New Standard restricting the use of Furfural (CAS 98-01-1)
    ]This one is in a non-standard format and limits the use in all skin contact applications to 10 parts per million, non skin contact to500 parts per million (equivalent to 0.001% and 0.05% respectively).

    New Standard prohibiting the use of 2,4-Dienals (group Standard)
    764-40-9
    142-83-6
    80466-34-8
    5910-85-0
    30361-28-5
    6750-03-4
    2363-88-4
    13162-46-4
    21662-16-8
    25152-84-5
    30361-29-6
    4313-03-5

    plus any other materials that fall into this group - this standard replaces several individual standards for 2,4-hexadienal, 2,4-heptadienal,2,4-octadienal, 2,4-nonadienal, 2,4-decadienal, and 2,4-undecadienal

    Eleven revised Standards taking the contributions of Schiff Bases into account.
    In essence this means that if a Schiff's Base composed of a restricted material is used you need to consider the amount of therestricted material in the Base as contributing to the total of the restricted material. alpha-Amyl cinnamic aldehyde, p-tert-Butyl-alpha-methylhydrocinnamic aldehyde (BMHCA), Benzaldehyde, Citral, Cinnamic aldehyde, Dimethylcyclohex-3-ene-1-carbaldehyde (Triplal), alpha-Hexylcinnamic aldehyde, Hydroxycitronellal, 3 and 4-(4-Hydroxy-4-methylpentyl)-3-cyclohexene-1-carboxaldehyde (HMPCC or Lyral), 4-Methoxy-a-methylbenzenepropanal (Canthoxal or Fennaldehyde) and a-Methyl-1,3-benzodioxole-5-propionaldehyde (MMDHCA or Helional) are modified respectively

    One Standard, based on the dermal sensitization QRA, with a corrected maximum use level
    p-Mentha-1,8-dien-7-al (Perilla aldehyde, CAS 2111-75-3) was incorrect. The maximum use level for Category 7 should read 0.05% instead of 0.1% and theStandard has been corrected.
    Quite a few changes of which the revised restricted standards and the change in the treatment of Schiff's Bases are probably theones that will affect most DIY perfumers. I'll add the full information in due course.

    Chris Bartlett 07/07/13 @ 12.54 pm
    Here is some more information on the new ruling on Schiff's Bases made with restricted aldehydes, showing how much aldehydeyou are to assume is present in each:

    Screen Shot 2013-11-20 at 12.49.39.jpg

    David Ruskin 07/07/13 @ 12.58 pm
    Interesting Chris. So IFRA thinks that the aldehyde part of the Schiff's Base has the same properties as the original aldehyde;
    wonder how they came to that conclusion.

    Chris Bartlett 07/07/13 @ 5.29 pm
    As I understand what they've said - and I only read it rather quickly so might have misunderstood - they are working on the basisthat under certain conditions that might occur in a consumer product the base could hydrolise back into it's components, releasingsome or all of the restricted aldehyde. Lacking any data on how much is in practice released they are working on the basis that allof it is until better data is presented to indicate otherwise.

    Dan Hotos 30/07/13 @ 10.21 am

    Tell me please when I see at GoodScents "8% in the fragrance concentrate" for methpenacetate - does it mean that if I have for
    example 100g of edt 3% so methphenacetate should be no more than 8% of 3% of concentrate? How do I interpret "in the fragrance concentrate" ?
    Thank you!

    James Peterson 05/08/13 @ 4.37 pm
    What happens if one goes blithely about making a perfume without concern for IFRA regulations? Is it a matter of putting therestricted ingredients on the label? Or is it actually illegal? I want to make perfumes regardless and simply warn people of certain dangers. For example, I'd like to use musk ambrette.

    Chris Bartlett 06/08/13 @ 1.25 pm

    (Replying to Dan Hotos)

    The usual assumption is that the fragrance concentrate will be used at no more than 20% of the final product. So to get amaximum percentage in the final product you multiply by 0.2. However the numbers given on The Good Scents Company websiteare generally derived from manufacturers recommended levels and so not have any regulatory force - some fragrances on themarket may well contain higher levels than specified.

    (Replying to James Peterson)
    Probably nothing will happen if you ignore the IFRA guidelines since you are not an IFRA member. However if someone were to sueyou they would have a strong case if you were unable to show that you had complied with internationally recognised safetyguidelines. Also keep in mind that in many countries some materials (including some nitro-musks) are banned from use incosmetics (including perfumes) by legislation and in that case you might be prosecuted by the relevant enforcement authorities.

    There are often regulations (in the EU these have the force of law) about what you put on the label, but irrespective of that youcan't abrogate your responsibility for producing a safe cosmetic by putting 'contains banned ingredients' or the equivalent on thelabel. This is a complex area and I recommend you either obtain specialist advice or do a lot of research before you decide whatrisks to take.

    James Peterson 21/08/13 @ 2.25 pm
    Thanks, Chris, for all your contributions to this site. What if one flouts the IFRA standards? Is this legal? Or does it require veryspecific warning labels? I want to market a perfume in the United States with lots of forbidden stuff in it.

    Chris Bartlett 21/08/13 @ 3.06 pm

    James, I'm really not the best person to advise on US law - I'm pretty well up on UK and even European law but the US legalsystem is very different and you guys have a tendency to sue one-another that is rather greater than in most places.
    That being said, my guess is that as long as your labelling makes it quite clear that your fragrances are not IFRA compliant andcontain potentially harmful things it would be difficult for a consumer to argue that they had not been fairly warned, so that'sprobably wise. Whether it's sufficient I can't say and you'll probably need to take legal advice*.

    * However in my experience the number of legal opinions * on any given question is equals N + n, where N is the number of lawyers asked and n is between 1 and N (because most will give you at least two opinions).
    * Some opinions may, without limitation, be mutually inconsistent with other opinions.


    mia von trost 22/08/13 @ 12.22 pm
    Quote
    Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett
    There is no logic to that - different regulatory bodies take quite different views - the way the QRA system works is that theytake a view of what the available evidence says causes sensitisation (and what has been tested depends of course on whathas been tested, not on what should be tested) and then they conclude that ten times less than that will be safe. Then theypermit ten times less than that in the perfume (roughly).To massively oversimplify, this is based on the idea that whatever sensitisation level is, this will be based on patch tests onthe skin or arms or back, and perfumes and other products may be applied in more absorptive / reactive areas, plus theremay be a cumulative effect of an ingredient being present in multiple products and an accumulation increasing the likelihoodof a problematic reaction. Further they also try to take account of the general population including some individuals whomay be more than usually sensitive to a particular product for racial or other genetic reasons and so the results from smallsamples may not be reliable for all members of the population. They describe this as taking a conservative approach. If you want to examine the full scientific rationale it is available in this . There are worked examples frompage 51 onwards. I must warn you that for the non-specialist (like me) it is tough going.
    As a final thought - there are many products - tobacco and rhubarb amongst them - that have a long history of consumer use and consumption. Yet if they were discovered today, they would never pass modern standards of acceptable safety. Youcan argue a convincing case either way as to whether that fact represents progress or not, according to your perspective.
    End Quote

    Far more 'digestible' than the RIFM document linked (being a non-specialist too), is, imho, excellent article on biased 'scientific'grounding of consumer safety legislation for cosmetics.

    The author conludes that there is a "
    considerable hysteria about cosmetic safety. Increasingly, we see articles, blog posts and videos put out by people who are repeating misinformation and who often have no ideawhat they are talking about. (...) In some cases safety legislation, instead of reflecting the science, is usurping and replacing it."

    Sybarite 27/08/13 @ 2.01 am
    Quote
    Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett
    [snip] ... The point of this ramble is that I’ve been wondering about putting a note on the site to say that you can have theoriginal, non-compliant, formulation if you specifically request it. My thinking being that a specific request like that wouldconstitute consent to exposure to more than the usual amount of the potential allergen and so protect me from lawsuits. I’mnot sure whether there is really that much market for it though - other than a few Basenotes aficionados that is.
    End quote

    Hiya Chris ! ... (Firstly, thanx for all the great info !)

    Wouldn't it just be possible, or a viable option, for a vendor to just place a clause on their store/checkout which stipulates that theyfreely use restricted substances & that they will only sell to someone who is aware of this fact and specifically states they do notmind/accept the consequences, before a purchase is allowed ?? - You know, the whole : 'By purchasing this product etc. etc' (Onecould even use this as a selling/positive advertising point -> 'all restriction free') ... Or would doing this NOT actually beallowed/possible for a 'fume vendor to do under current EU 'cosmetics' laws ??

    On another note, please can you help me understand something. - I mean, I can mostly get my head around & work out most ofthe ratios & percentages, and how to work them out in a composition. The only ones that have me completely stumped tho', is thedamned " ppb's ". How the hell does one even start to figure out what is less than a part per billion ?? - This has me completelystumped. (I mean, I'm getting 'a single drop in a paddle pool' kind of mental images here.) ... Like how does one figure out how properly dilute & not to use too much Cade for example ?? (I mean, are we really talking about less than a drop diluted in a billiondrops kinda thing ??) -> That just boggles my brain into a freeze-blank. (LOL)



    Your help will be much appreciated !


    Pears 28/08/13 @8.03 pm
    On the Goodscents site materials that aren't restricted still have a recommended usage level. For Tolu balsam it states:

    Recommendation for tolu balsam oil fragrance usage levels up to :
    4.0000 % in the fragrance concentrate.

    Is this an IFRA recommendation? If so, do perfumers have to comply as they do with restricted materials?

    Pears 30/08/13 @ 3.12 pm

    If nobody knows the answer, perhaps I should email them to ask?

    Renegade 30/08/13 @ 4.36 pm

    Pears, as far as I understand those recommended usage levels for non-restricted materials don't come from IFRA, they are just general guidelines, more aesthetic than safety based. They may come from the manufacturers themselves.
    Take Nectaryl for example; TGSC states recommended usage level up to 5% and if you look up the material on Givaudan's websitethey recommend 0.5% to 5%. These refer to percentages of the fragrance concentrate, not the finished product.


    If it's not restricted or prohibited you can use as much as you see fit.

    Sybarite 30/08/13 @ 4.42 pm
    Well it seems, with all the changes around here, it's quite possible that Chris has lost the subscription to this thread !?

    .....

    Oh well, I'll just have to continue being bamboozled by these damned 'ppb's ...


    Chris Bartlett 02/09/13 @ 6.08 pm
    (Quotes Sybarite above)
    The first part of this I've answered before - it's possible certainly - though not very easy in the EU because of the safety evaluation requirement.
    On PPB, this table should help:

    Screen Shot 2013-11-20 at 14.06.22.jpg

    However you also need to remember that they are talking about components of the oil (or impurities in it) not the whole oil. So thepercentage will be greater for the whole oil.


    Originally Posted by Renegade
    Pears, as far as I understand those recommended usage levels for non-restricted materials don't come from IFRA, they are
    just general guidelines, more aesthetic than safety based. They may come from the manufacturers themselves.
    Take Nectaryl for example; TGSC states recommended usage level up to 5% and if you look up the material on Givaudan'swebsite they recommend 0.5% to 5%. These refer to percentages of the fragrance concentrate, not the finished product.
    If it's not restricted or prohibited you can use as much as you see fit.
    End quote.


    This answer is exactly right - in general the guide on TGSC is taken from the manufacturers recommendation - however I am aware that there are many commercial fragrances on the market with much higher levels of unrestricted materials in them than the recommendation level: it is part of the creativity of perfumers to use materials in unexpected ways.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sybarite
    Well it seems, with all the changes around here, it's quite possible that Chris has lost the subscription to this thread !?
    Hello - Chris - are u there ???
    ......
    Oh well, I'll just have to continue being bamboozled by these damned 'ppb's ...
    End quote


    I think I have lost the subscription but I'm overwhelmed with email and work at the moment so it's just as likely I just missed it . . .
    sorry!

    Waywardspirit 06/09/13 @ 3.33 am

    Hi, sorry if this is a stupid question or has already been answered - I am very new to all of this.
    From what I understand IFRA rules are voluntary - but everyone follows them, and this rule applies to all perfumes - if they aremade in the US or elsewhere?

    There is a separate set of rules that apply to EU perfumes? Would I have to follow those as well if I am making perfumes in the USand not selling anything in the EU? What if a US customer buys a perfume, then ships it to a friend in the UK for example?

    Not like any of this is likely to happen to me I haven't even made a perfume yet...just trying to understand.
    Edited by Waywardspirit - 9/6/13 at 3:53am View History

    Irina 06/09/13 @ 8.16 am

    Welcome Waywardspirit! Maybe this thread I put together a while ago might help:
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/322549-

    Unless your US friend becomes a distributor of your fragrances to the UK, I shouldn't worry, US has minimal legislation when sellinghandmade/homemade cosmetics (perfume is a cosmetic).

    Also really those minimum IFRA restrictions are very do-able, if you'll blend perfume you'll see. Unless you use mostly naturals inwhich case it is more difficult, as most naturals contain a myriad of restricted materials, so you'll need to have specs on what's in your natural material.

    The EU legislation regards less restrictions, more labeling and safety issues.
    I would always consider taking a look at the perfume allergens that are in your fragrances and see if it's possible for you to let your customers know if your fragrances contain them. If you use natural ingredients, best that you list those as a whole, for example'lavender essential oil'. For example, I have serious perfume allergies, but I'm a perfume lover that likes to support artisan perfumers. But if they don't disclose the most potential allergens I just can't take the risk of buying such creations.

    Sybarite 08/09/13 @ 8.21 pm
    Cheers Chris, thank you so much for all the info, much appreciated ! - (And sorry that I've caused you to repeat yourself.
    So therefore especially grateful u were kind enough to cover it once again for my benefit !) ... So, the answer is yes 'possible' -BUT not really ! - Those DAMNED EU laws !! - Like anyone has ever died of a rash !) (lol)

    Anywayz, .... Also most grateful for the "PPM/PPB Conversion Tables"- THANX! ... I shall be pouring over them to see it I can finallyget my head around them. (Tho' I imagine it will probably take quite some untangling, as I'm still rather baffled as to how to actually convert them into practicality.)

    End of Huddler period posts
    Last edited by lpp; 20th November 2013 at 07:26 PM.

  60. #120

    Default Re: IFRA Standards - Discussion thread (Temporary partial version)

    I'm a little confused about IFRA. Is it absolutely illegal to use the prohibited substances? Or does it mean that there has to be some kind of warning label? Are the rules different if one is only marketing in the U.S? I want to make a perfume that's oblivious to IFRA. What will happen to me?

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