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  1. #1

    Default Looking for a masculine chypre?

    I have been reading that Chanel Pour Monsieur (not Concentre) is one of the finest masculine chypre fragrances in production. However, I simply cannot find it in the United States; apparently Chanel is simply not allowing it to be imported here. Since it is not available to me, I do not want to go to the trouble of finding a sample, even if possible, and being disappointed that I cannot get a full bottle.

    For those of you fortunate enough to now have or have had Chanel Pour Monsieur, are there other masculine chypre fragrances which you can recommend that are currently in production and available in the States? Thanks for the help as always.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    I got a bottle from International Perfume on eBay (they're an actual wholesaler in the Los Angeles Perfume District). You can get a 3.4 oz tester for around $70 and a retail bottle for around $80. Sounds steep, but CpM is hard to find and likely one of the finest fragrances you will ever smell.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Chanel Pour Monsieur, not the Concentree, is still very readily available online. As of today, I know you can get it from perfumeLa.com, ultrafragrances.com and beautyencounter.com, just to name a few. I bought a 3.4 oz. bottle of the original a few months ago from ultrafragrances.com, and it looks like it's still in stock. You don't need to worry about being disappointed in not being able to find a bottle to buy online.

    I agree that it seems impossible to find in stores in the US anymore.

    To answer your question, another great masculine chypre and easily available is Monsieur de Givenchy. It's truly a timeless classic, very discreet, and actually a bit similar to Chanel PM, with more citrus notes. It's great stuff

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    With a little online research, one should be able to find a bottle of Chanel Pour Monsieur if you want it - that is, if you sample it and like it. I wouldn't be afraid of sampling it. It's a fantastic masculine chypre - one of the classics. If you are lucky enough to score a vintage bottle, it's even more oakmoss prominent.

    Other masculine chypres that are easy to source here in the US, that I recommend are:

    Tiffany for Men by Tiffany
    Numero Uno by Carthusia
    Derby by Guerlain
    New York by Parfums de Nicolai

    Plus you might want to think about stepping out of the box, auee, and sampling/wearing some feminine chypres. Many of them are easy for a man to wear. Follow your nose.

    I'm sure you'll receive a bunch of recommendations on this thread - masculine chypres are popular with the Basenotes contingent. Remember: sample, sample, sample! Just because I like it, doesn't mean you will also.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by mikeperez23; 18th October 2009 at 02:27 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    You must be able to get it at a Chanel boutique. There seems to be one in every major city. I've certainly seen it at airport Duty Free shops.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Acqua di Parma's Colonia is closer to a cologne, less oakmoss, but has a very similar rose note from what I remember of Chanel. There are a gazillion male chypres, of course. Recent faves of mine include Hermes Equipage and Monsieur de Givenchy.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    And let us not forget Aramis and Tuscany.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    You must be able to get it at a Chanel boutique. There seems to be one in every major city. I've certainly seen it at airport Duty Free shops.
    The original PM is not an US Chanel boutiques... I don't know about duty frees. As said above, many online retailers still have it and not even very expensively (fragranceexpress had cheap testers not long ago).

    I echo mikeperez' suggestions for checking out feminine chypres, many of which are very unisex. Estee Lauder Aliage & Azuree, Guerlain Mitsouko, Givenchy III, and Clinique Aromatics Elixir would all be fine on a guy.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    And let us not forget Aramis and Tuscany.
    I believe Tuscany is a fougere.

    I second Tiffany for Men; it has a passing resemblance to Chanel PM and is arguably easier to obtain. I personally prefer Chanel by a narrow margin. Both were created by Jacques Polge.
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts. Daniel Moynihan

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snafoo View Post
    I believe Tuscany is a fougere.

    I second Tiffany for Men; it has a passing resemblance to Chanel PM and is arguably easier to obtain. I personally prefer Chanel by a narrow margin. Both were created by Jacques Polge.
    Snafoo,

    Good to see you around.

    Pour Monsieur was actually made by Henri Robert in 1955. He also made Chanel No. 19 and Cristalle.

    Here's a random list of chypres. Some are more chypre than others but classifying them is imperfect at best. Some may be more fougere, but have enough chypre feel to be considered chypre - Jules and Or Black for example. It's somewhat ineffable but for me chypres have a web-like feel, the juxtaposition between bergamot-oakmoss-labdanum (citrus resinous-bitter resinous-sweet resinous). They almost always have an intelligent feel about them as well.

    The classifications for chypres go way beyond what I'm giving here. There are green, citrus, floral, leather, fruity chypres, etc.

    Pure Chypres:

    Chypre de Coty
    Mitsouko
    Givenchy lll (green)
    Patou pour Homme (I consider it a spicy chypre)
    No. 19 (vintage, green, new stuff is more of a floral than a chypre)
    Pour Monsieur (new stuff is more of a citrus chypre)
    Futur (green)
    Knowing
    Y (green)
    Profumo (Acqua di Parma)
    Jubilation 25
    Colony
    Rose de Nuit
    Bois d'Orage
    Femme
    Sous le Vent (green)
    Coriolan
    Balmain de Balmain (green)
    Eau Fraiche (Dior)
    Halston Z-14

    Citrus Chypres:

    Eau de Rochas
    Eau de Patou
    Eau de Rochas pour Homme - not the reformulated version called Eau de Rochas Homme
    Eau Sauvage
    Cristalle
    Diorella
    Monsieur de Givenchy

    Dry Woods/Leather Chypres
    :

    Knize Ten
    Cuir de Russie (Chanel)
    Bandit
    Aromatics Elixir
    Aramis 900
    Timbuktu
    Or Black
    Yatagan
    La Nuit (Paco Rabanne)
    Leather Oud
    Arsene Lupin Dandy
    Parfum de Peau
    Jolie Madame
    Bel Ami
    Aramis
    Van Cleef & Arpels pour Homme
    Miss Balmain
    Antaeus
    M
    Parfum d'Habit
    Eau d'Hermes
    Dia for Men

    __________


    Enlevement au Serail (floral)
    Private Collection (floral, green)
    Tiffany for Men (oriental)
    Last edited by pluran; 14th January 2012 at 09:15 AM. Reason: blackout

  11. #11

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    I second ADP, Eau Sauvage and Loewe PH, among others

    But I would also love to suggest Armani Eau pour Homme

  12. #12

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    To Pluran's Dry Chypre category, I would add Estee Lauder Azuree and Clinique Aromatics Elixir.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    I still have trouble distinguishing between cyphres and fougeres. To me, non-dry, sweeter cyphre = fougere. And dry fougere = cyphre. Can someone please help me?

    Also, I saw Chanel PM the other week at an Ulta near me.



    I like Equipage (a very soft cyphre - maybe a fougere? Yes? No?), Aramis, Polo (sometimes), and Givenchy Gentleman (oriental cyphre? Hmmm ) and YSL PM.
    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  14. #14

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveJazz View Post
    I still have trouble distinguishing between cyphres and fougeres. To me, non-dry, sweeter cyphre = fougere. And dry fougere = cyphre. Can someone please help me?

    Also, I saw Chanel PM the other week at an Ulta near me.



    I like Equipage (a very soft cyphre - maybe a fougere? Yes? No?), Aramis, Polo (sometimes), and Givenchy Gentleman (oriental cyphre? Hmmm ) and YSL PM.
    A chypre MUST contain bergamot and oakmoss, and it will usually contain labdanum and patchouli. Without bergamot and oakmoss it is not a chypre. To identify the chypre accord compare samples of vintage Givenchy III with Pour Monsieur... they both contain distinct 'chypre accords' not masked by other notes. Eventually you'll be able to recognize the chypre structure when it's hidden. (i.e. the citrus in Diorella), but it can get tricky with some of the woody and leather chypres. For example I don't think of Polo as a chypre though it technically is. Equipage contains no bergamot and is therefor not a chypre.

    A fougere contains lavender and coumarin. Quite honestly I'm not a fougere fan so I can't tell you which ones are best for learning to identify the accord.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Really? No Chanel Pour Monsieur at the boutiques? I have never NOT seen PM at the boutiques, whether in the US or abroad. I live in Topeka, KS and just got a bottle at Macy's and I have seen it at Dillard's as well. The only ones not easily found in my town are Antaeus and Egoiste, both of which are abundant online.
    "Flagrantly fragrant and they can't escape me. My perfume pursued them everywhere that they went.
    You don't want a loan, leave my cologne alone. It's a little too strong for you to be putting on".
    - Lupe Fiasco

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by Echo777 View Post
    Really? No Chanel Pour Monsieur at the boutiques? I have never NOT seen PM at the boutiques, whether in the US or abroad. I live in Topeka, KS and just got a bottle at Macy's and I have seen it at Dillard's as well. The only ones not easily found in my town are Antaeus and Egoiste, both of which are abundant online.
    The one you see everywhere Echo777 is Chanel Pour Monsieur Concentree. NOT Chanel Pour Monsieur. These are totally different scents. I do not like the Concentree at all. The original is much better IMO.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by heynow View Post
    A chypre MUST contain bergamot and oakmoss, and it will usually contain labdanum and patchouli. Without bergamot and oakmoss it is not a chypre. To identify the chypre accord compare samples of vintage Givenchy III with Pour Monsieur... they both contain distinct 'chypre accords' not masked by other notes. Eventually you'll be able to recognize the chypre structure when it's hidden. (i.e. the citrus in Diorella), but it can get tricky with some of the woody and leather chypres. For example I don't think of Polo as a chypre though it technically is. Equipage contains no bergamot and is therefor not a chypre.

    A fougere contains lavender and coumarin. Quite honestly I'm not a fougere fan so I can't tell you which ones are best for learning to identify the accord.
    I don't think the chypre rules are so hard and fast anymore, modern chypres are often made without oakmoss. Tree moss is often used, and the new Jasmine White Moss actually has a synthetic moss-like chemical in it. What a world! :bounce:

  18. #18

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    The one you see everywhere Echo777 is Chanel Pour Monsieur Concentree. NOT Chanel Pour Monsieur. These are totally different scents. I do not like the Concentree at all. The original is much better IMO.
    I think you're right, Mike. The most recent bottle design of Concentree is exactly the same as the regular Pour Monsieur and relegates the word concentree to the very bottom, front edge of the bottle. They've also changed the color of the Concentree from green to yellow, like the regular Pour Monsieur. Very confusing - it must be intentional.

  19. #19
    AromiErotici
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Moods Uomo by Krizia is a decent and economical woody chypre.
    Yatagan is an available and economical leather chypre. So are De La Renta pour Lui original, Havana, Antaeus, Montana Red and Chevignon to name a few.
    Last edited by AromiErotici; 18th October 2009 at 11:08 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    The concentree has always been in a tall rectangle bottle (2.5oz). The original comes in a tall square (more typical Chanel) bottle.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    I don't think the chypre rules are so hard and fast anymore, modern chypres are often made without oakmoss. Tree moss is often used, and the new Jasmine White Moss actually has a synthetic moss-like chemical in it. What a world! :bounce:
    There was an excellent discussion of Jasmine White Moss on the feminine board and to what extent it smells like a chypre. I happen to really, really like JWM (enough to buy) and I think it smells like a chypre...but that's just it. It 'smells like' a chypre but it is NOT a chypre. In this new era without oakmoss there will have to evolve some category of 'modern chypre', but the definition of what a chypre is simply is not an interperative issue... by definition it contains bergamot and (real) oakmoss. One can't simply assign a new definition at will. Compare vintage to reissued Givenchy III and you'll see what I mean. 31 Rue Cambon is close as well, but it's not a chypre. The meaning of what a chypre is has been muddied, in part by the houses. Guerlain calls Idylle a 'floral chypre' when it's nothing of the sort. It's almost like chypre has come to mean anything light and citrus/woody, but as a purist and someone with an historical appreciation for perfumery I reject the nonsense marketing. A thing is what it is and isn't what it isn't, and the definition of chypre is a specific accord.

    Of course this doesn't mean we can't like the 'modern chypres' or shouldn't buy them, but especially on a thread like this where someone is asking for help identifying the genre it's best to be straightforward and give the correct definition, not the 'modern, fuzzy, vague' definition.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    heynow--it may actually be a true chypre, depending what the "white moss mist" ingredient is. I read elsewhere that there is a chemically processed natural oakmoss which has the irritating parts removed. It is still natural oakmoss, but just not extracted in the same way.

    Also, I read somewhere that oakmoss used to be an ingredient of traditional fougere, so the "trio" was lavender, oakmoss, tonka.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by heynow View Post
    It 'smells like' a chypre but it is NOT a chypre.
    Before Coty's Chypre there wasn't any such thing as a "chypre". The word Chypre is just a vague description of something that resembles Coty's original creation. That's why fragrances can be both chypres and fougeres. A woody floral can also be an oriental. It's kind of loose, it's not a noose. Someone once said, "The map is not the territory and the word is not the "thing". I will add this: a Chypre is not a thing, it's just a territory.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 19th October 2009 at 03:02 AM.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    Before Coty's Chypre there wasn't any such thing as a "chypre". The word Chypre is just a vague description of something that resembles Coty's original creation. That's why fragrances can be both chypres and fougeres. A woody floral can also be an oriental. It's kind of loose, it's not a noose. Someone once said, "The map is not the territory and the word is not the "thing". I will add this: a Chypre is not a thing, it's just a territory.
    You're right it is not a 'thing' - that was an anology. However a fragrance is not a chypre because it resembles 'Chypre de Coty' (which 99% of people today haven't smelled). Most chypres smell nothing at all like Chypre de Coty, and if that were the criterea then Derby wouldn't be chypre (it is), Pour Monieur wouldn't be a chypre (it is), and Givenchy III wouldn't be chypre (it is) because none of them resemble Chypre de Coty. I own Chypre de Coty and maybe 1 in 10 chypres smell anything like it.

    'Chypre' is a specific term that refers to a specific structure used in perfumery named after Chypre de Coty. Coty was the first (known) to use the bergamot/oakmoss/labdanum accord which essentially creates a new 'note' (like yellow and blue make green). The accord lasts a long time and creates a skeleton structure for fragrances. This structure is flexible and can hold florals, citrus, woods, etc - but at its core is bergamot/labdanum/oakmoss. Absent the ingredents that create the 'chypre accord' a fragrance is not a chypre. People don't understand this, in part because houses misuse the term, but all the misuse and lack of understanding does not change that 'chypre' simply is not an amorphous term, no matter who thinks it is. A fragrance can only be a chypre and fougere if it contains bergamot, oakmoss, lavender and coumarin...not because it 'smells like' something else.

    Turin describes this in his book and I've read it elsewhere (I'll find the sources). If you're aware of an actual alternate definition of 'chypre' I'd be curious to know what the definition is and its source, because as it stands these days its becoming an amorphous, meaningless term. Ruggles you obviously have extensive fragrance experience so it doesn't matter to you, but for those learning it's best to give the correct and true definitions and meanings. Some reviewer called Guerlain Philtre d'Amour a 'floral chypre'. This is absurd because it's neither floral nor chypre (it's a citrus/floral). However people read this wrong info and think something's a chypre that isn't, and it perpetuates the lack of understanding of the art form.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk or perpetuate an argument... it's just that 'chypre' does have a very specific definition, that's all.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    OK, there were some perfumes named Chypre before Coty.
    One could find Chypre de Paris by Guerlain in Basenotes list - it was made in 1909. I`m not sure if bergamot-labdanum-oakmoss structure was prominent (I believe that jasmine+rose combo should be in it) - but I`m pretty sure that Chypre as theme of island and ancient gods was popular amongst perfumers in the beginning of XX century.
    Coty just make it better than others, that`s it.

    As for Philtre d`Amour - it`s a true chypre. By smell, by structure, by definition, by anything.
    Vetiver The Great!!!

  26. #26

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by heynow View Post
    You're right it is not a 'thing' - that was an anology. However a fragrance is not a chypre because it resembles 'Chypre de Coty' (which 99% of people today haven't smelled). Most chypres smell nothing at all like Chypre de Coty, and if that were the criterea then Derby wouldn't be chypre (it is), Pour Monieur wouldn't be a chypre (it is), and Givenchy III wouldn't be chypre (it is) because none of them resemble Chypre de Coty. I own Chypre de Coty and maybe 1 in 10 chypres smell anything like it.

    'Chypre' is a specific term that refers to a specific structure used in perfumery named after Chypre de Coty. Coty was the first (known) to use the bergamot/oakmoss/labdanum accord which essentially creates a new 'note' (like yellow and blue make green). The accord lasts a long time and creates a skeleton structure for fragrances. This structure is flexible and can hold florals, citrus, woods, etc - but at its core is bergamot/labdanum/oakmoss. Absent the ingredents that create the 'chypre accord' a fragrance is not a chypre. People don't understand this, in part because houses misuse the term, but all the misuse and lack of understanding does not change that 'chypre' simply is not an amorphous term, no matter who thinks it is. A fragrance can only be a chypre and fougere if it contains bergamot, oakmoss, lavender and coumarin...not because it 'smells like' something else.

    Turin describes this in his book and I've read it elsewhere (I'll find the sources). If you're aware of an actual alternate definition of 'chypre' I'd be curious to know what the definition is and its source, because as it stands these days its becoming an amorphous, meaningless term. Ruggles you obviously have extensive fragrance experience so it doesn't matter to you, but for those learning it's best to give the correct and true definitions and meanings. Some reviewer called Guerlain Philtre d'Amour a 'floral chypre'. This is absurd because it's neither floral nor chypre (it's a citrus/floral). However people read this wrong info and think something's a chypre that isn't, and it perpetuates the lack of understanding of the art form.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk or perpetuate an argument... it's just that 'chypre' does have a very specific definition, that's all.
    This is very helpful for someone learning about fragrances. If I am reading the definition correctly, I am looking for variations of fragrances all of which have in common the use of bergamot/labdanum/oakmoss. I will search the data base with these notes and see what turns up.

    I really think some are confusing the Concentree with the non concentre. The bottles and color of the scent are much different and I know for a fact that Chanel does not import it into the States.

    I am going to get a sample and proceed from there. I also intend to sample many of the fragrances recommended here which have the essential chypre structure.

    I am very grateful to all members with much more extensive knowledge and experience than me who have responded in this thread. You guys are great.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?


    I happen to agree with heynow's comments to the letter, and like Pluran's comments, they are thoughtfully considered and well-informed.

    Synthetic oakmoss, or more correctly synthetically derived aromatic constituents of oakmoss have been in use for decades as have oakmoss co-distillates, otherwise known as oakmoss bases. Treemoss is not simply a recent addition due to IFRA restrictions. It can be found in many oakmoss bases in varying degrees before the IFRA restrictions. Nevertheless, the one indispensable aspect of all these ways of inflecting the oakmoss note in a fragrance is that the inimitable broadly aromatic, character determining, and fixative qualities of the natural product or synthetically derived/enhanced equivalent remain intact. This is why you can't have a true chypre without oakmoss nor even a true fougère. Oakmoss as a fixative within a particular organizational structure such as a chypre allows for much variation--that's part of its enduring appeal--but it is the oakmoss that predominates throughout that structure and provides the basic character and framework of that structure in concert with the other notes. In terms of the feel of chypres, pluran's web metaphor works perfectly.

    To explain: the scent profile of oakmoss is very complex, and much like ambergris, it can present a wide range of distinctive notes: animalic, leathery, forest floor, lichenous like notes, a slight marine type salinity, but these notes and the way they present themselves has a lot to do with how oakmoss is inflected as an ingredient and with the concentration of oakmoss in a fragrance and its synergy with other elements. For example, while oakmoss does not have a heavy animalic note per se, in absolute form, it has quite a complex scent profile, part of which is a persistent leather-like undertone. Oakmoss can and frequently does deepen and complicate the animalic component of fragrances it is added to by the persistence of this leather-like undertone from the top notes through to the drydown, and, of course, how prominent such an undertone is depends on how much the use of oakmoss absolute is diluted within any particular fragrance and its synergy with other animalic or leathery type notes. This is also were oakmoss bases come in in terms of inflecting particular aspects of the broad oakmoss profile. Finally, oakmoss has unique fixative qualities in that its presence tends to extend throughout the entire drydown with its own odor profile adding to the inimitable feel and distinctive nature to the fragrance it occurs in, hence, the category of chypres. However, while it gives fragrances a distinctive enduring character, in many ways, though, oakmoss is the universal fixative par excellence in that while it asserts its distinctive character throughout the drydown of the fragrances it is present in, unlike other fixatives, and to a large extent, it leaves the scent profile of the other constituents in the fragrance relatively unmodified allowing them to shine through a persist longer and more intensely even as it binds with them. In many ways, its own scent profile remains a kind of background note. The only other fixative that has this characteristic is civet.

    The problem I have with "modern chypres" and especially with the concept of modern chypres sans oakmoss is that it most of the time the term functions to cover up a paucity of creativity. It's a way of gaining cache for mostly and essentially bankrupt, uninspired creations. I am classicist because I value classic fragrances and the perfumery tradition in which the chypre as a category was developed and in which it involved. Traditions and definitions matter, especially when they are being replaced with shoddy fragrances and marketing drivel.

    Of course you can have a chypre without oakmoss, but it would be the same as having French onion soup without onions.

    scentemental

    Last edited by scentemental; 19th October 2009 at 12:36 PM.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Thank you scentemental for the far more specific and enlightening detail then I could have ever provided. I've already cut/paste your post into my 'perfumery education' files.

    As for Philtre d'Amour, I've never smelled oakmoss and it.'s not listed, but if it's there and I'm wrong I'm certainlu happy to admit my error. Generally I'm good at smelling the chypre accord, even when hidden, and I don't smell it in PdA, but I've certainly been wrong before.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    As a fan of Philtre d'Amour I always wondered whether it was a chypre or not myself. Clearly, it doesn't jump out at me, like Chypre by Coty does but I've been researching it this morning online and a few places list in the notes oakmoss.

    Maybe someone can contact Guerlain and get an official list of notes?

  30. #30

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snafoo View Post
    I believe Tuscany is a fougere.
    Well, I guess we can forget Tuscany then.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    Hey Snafoo,

    Good to see you around. Pour Monsieur was actually made by Henri Robert in 1955. He also made Chanel No. 19 and Cristalle. Something a lot of people don't know about Polge is that he made the first Rive Gauche in 1969, and it's probably the best thing he ever made. RG was reformulated in 03 and isn't quite what it was. Still great though...
    Hi Pluran!
    I suspected I was going to get whacked for that comment re: Jacques Polge. My info came from the Chanel PM (1955) synopsis in the Basenotes fragrance directory, but the write-up there is ambiguous at best.

    Great posts by both you and Scentemental. Reminds me yet again how knowledgeable you guys are, and how much I'm a mere hack.
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts. Daniel Moynihan

  32. #32

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    Well, I guess we can forget Tuscany then.
    No! Gone but not forgotten - it's one of my favorite... fougeres?

    BTW, I saw a 100 mL bottle of Tuscany at Sam's Club for 29 bucks. Not a bad price.
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts. Daniel Moynihan

  33. #33

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    With a little online research, one should be able to find a bottle of Chanel Pour Monsieur if you want it - that is, if you sample it and like it. I wouldn't be afraid of sampling it. It's a fantastic masculine chypre - one of the classics. If you are lucky enough to score a vintage bottle, it's even more oakmoss prominent.

    Other masculine chypres that are easy to source here in the US, that I recommend are:

    Tiffany for Men by Tiffany
    Numero Uno by Carthusia
    Derby by Guerlain
    New York by Parfums de Nicolai

    Plus you might want to think about stepping out of the box, auee, and sampling/wearing some feminine chypres. Many of them are easy for a man to wear. Follow your nose.

    I'm sure you'll receive a bunch of recommendations on this thread - masculine chypres are popular with the Basenotes contingent. Remember: sample, sample, sample! Just because I like it, doesn't mean you will also.

    Good luck.
    I wear PdN New York nearly everyday. I don't really consider it to be a Chypre, but I'm not great at classifying fragrance so I could be wrong!

  34. #34

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    So, to clarify, is Monsieur Rochas a fougere or a chypre?


    Monsieur Rochas (1969)
    http://www.basenotes.net/ID26121130.html
    Top Notes:
    Lemon, Bergamot, Clary Sage, Lavender.
    Middle Notes:
    Geranium, Carnation, Cedarwood, Vetiver, Cardamom, Galbanum.
    Base Notes:
    Oakmoss, Tonka, Musk, Patchouli.

  35. #35

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by vonMises View Post
    So, to clarify, is Monsieur Rochas a fougere or a chypre?


    Monsieur Rochas (1969)
    http://www.basenotes.net/ID26121130.html
    Top Notes:
    Lemon, Bergamot, Clary Sage, Lavender.
    Middle Notes:
    Geranium, Carnation, Cedarwood, Vetiver, Cardamom, Galbanum.
    Base Notes:
    Oakmoss, Tonka, Musk, Patchouli.
    Well, according to what others have said, it looks like it's neither. Lavender/oakmoss but no coumarin listed means it can't be a fougere. It's not a cyphre because there's no labdanum...unless galbanum is countable.
    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  36. #36

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Call me crazy but I find Mitsouko to be more masculine than feminine. Definitely give that one a shot. At the worst, Mitsouko is perfectly unisex.
    Sales thread here

  37. #37

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by vonMises View Post
    So, to clarify, is Monsieur Rochas a fougere or a chypre?


    Monsieur Rochas (1969)
    http://www.basenotes.net/ID26121130.html
    Fougere: it contains lavender, oakmoss and tonka (=coumarin).
    Last edited by tott; 19th October 2009 at 07:00 PM.

  38. #38

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by tott View Post
    Fougere: ... tonka (=coumarin).
    Ohhhhhhhhhh! Thanks!
    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  39. #39

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveJazz View Post
    Well, according to what others have said, it looks like it's neither. Lavender/oakmoss but no coumarin listed means it can't be a fougere. It's not a cyphre because there's no labdanum...unless galbanum is countable.
    As I understand it labdanum is not required but it's almost always present in the chypre accord. I was searching BN threads for info and found a good one that I'll link to when I'm not posting via cell phone.

  40. #40

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Aramis
    Polo
    Halston Z-14
    Eau Savauge

  41. #41

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    As a fan of Philtre d'Amour I always wondered whether it was a chypre or not myself. Clearly, it doesn't jump out at me, like Chypre by Coty does but I've been researching it this morning online and a few places list in the notes oakmoss.

    Maybe someone can contact Guerlain and get an official list of notes?
    Nowadays, Guerlain under LVMH is producing reformulated Philtre d`Amour - not the same juice it was in ltd edition of 1999. So you could get official notes of NEW PDA instead.
    I have a chance to keep the 1999 PDA bottle, but send it to my friend. New PDA I`ve got in sample from Guerlain boutique - the theme is the same, but the juice is more fresh and light.
    Yes, it has more patchouli than oakmoss in sillage.

    Mike, would you mind to reveal the date of your Chypre Coty bottle?
    The Chypre Coty of mine is from 60-70 and it`s US-edition. And it does not jumps It`s great flowery (rose+jasmine) chypre, with subdued oakmoss. Not animalic at all.

    By the way, as a bonus, I`d like to share some link.
    http://cgi.ebay.de/Guerlain-Mitsouko...item518d6355fa
    I bought the very same set of vintage Mitsouko soaps - and now I do understand Luca Turin column in NZZ (devoted to travel luxury) much better.
    Every time I wash my hands - I feel myself on heaven!
    Vetiver The Great!!!

  42. #42

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Aramis or Azurée (leather-chypre), Aramis 900 (floral-chypre), Devin (green-chypre) or JHL (oriental-chypre) - all made by Bernard Chant, he was really a great "chyprier"!

    Albi by Laura Tonatto - herbal citrus-chypre
    Ô de Lancôme - ditto
    Numero Uno by Carthusia - herbal fruity chypre
    and of course: Mitsouko EdT new version!

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by moon_fish View Post
    Nowadays, Guerlain under LVMH is producing reformulated Philtre d`Amour - not the same juice it was in ltd edition of 1999. So you could get official notes of NEW PDA instead.
    I have a chance to keep the 1999 PDA bottle, but send it to my friend. New PDA I`ve got in sample from Guerlain boutique - the theme is the same, but the juice is more fresh and light.
    Yes, it has more patchouli than oakmoss in sillage.

    Mike, would you mind to reveal the date of your Chypre Coty bottle?
    The Chypre Coty of mine is from 60-70 and it`s US-edition. And it does not jumps It`s great flowery (rose+jasmine) chypre, with subdued oakmoss. Not animalic at all.

    By the way, as a bonus, I`d like to share some link.
    http://cgi.ebay.de/Guerlain-Mitsouko...item518d6355fa
    I bought the very same set of vintage Mitsouko soaps - and now I do understand Luca Turin column in NZZ (devoted to travel luxury) much better.
    Every time I wash my hands - I feel myself on heaven!
    Well, I do own the vintage bottle of Philtre d'Amour, and I still have a hard time targeting the chypre accord in it. Weird.

    The Coty Chypre I have, I have no idea what year it is. No box. It's and EdP, is yours as well or is it an EdT? My bottle looks like this: http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...ket/Chypre.jpg

    OMG, moon_fish, I've always wanted to acquire some Mitsouko soap. How jealous I am.
    "You are here to enable the Divine purpose of the Universe to unfold. That is how important you are."

    -- Eckhart Tolle

  44. #44

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    It's threads like these that cause irresponsible spending! After reading the whole thread, I now realise I must have Chanel Pour Monsieur. AARGH! (in a good way, of course)


  45. #45

    Default Re: Sample of Chanel Pour Monsieur?

    Gents, I have not been able to find a place to get a sample of Chanel Pour Monsieur, and not the Concentre which is readily available in US at brick and mortar stores. Does anyone have a recommendation? Thanks for the help.

  46. #46
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    Default Re: Sample of Chanel Pour Monsieur?

    Quote Originally Posted by auee View Post
    Gents, I have not been able to find a place to get a sample of Chanel Pour Monsieur, and not the Concentre which is readily available in US at brick and mortar stores. Does anyone have a recommendation? Thanks for the help.
    You can buy some on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Chanel-Pour-Mons...item439ad789a8
    "You are here to enable the Divine purpose of the Universe to unfold. That is how important you are."

    -- Eckhart Tolle

  47. #47

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by moon_fish View Post
    Nowadays, Guerlain under LVMH is producing reformulated Philtre d`Amour - not the same juice it was in ltd edition of 1999. So you could get official notes of NEW PDA instead.
    I have a chance to keep the 1999 PDA bottle, but send it to my friend. New PDA I`ve got in sample from Guerlain boutique - the theme is the same, but the juice is more fresh and light.
    Yes, it has more patchouli than oakmoss in sillage.

    Mike, would you mind to reveal the date of your Chypre Coty bottle?
    The Chypre Coty of mine is from 60-70 and it`s US-edition. And it does not jumps It`s great flowery (rose+jasmine) chypre, with subdued oakmoss. Not animalic at all.

    By the way, as a bonus, I`d like to share some link.
    http://cgi.ebay.de/Guerlain-Mitsouko...item518d6355fa
    I bought the very same set of vintage Mitsouko soaps - and now I do understand Luca Turin column in NZZ (devoted to travel luxury) much better.
    Every time I wash my hands - I feel myself on heaven!
    I have a sample of the '99 PdA EdT and a FB of the EdP and I agree the EdP is a brighter and a bit longer lasting - I'll have to re-sample my EdT and check for the chypre accord.

    If you (moon fish) is knowledgeable about Chypre de Coty vintages, perhaps you can help me date mine? Until when did they make the parfum (which mine is)? It also seems to be a US version with the NYC sticker on the bottom.

    Oddly I have one bar of that exact Mitsouko soap that I received as a random freebie when I made a purchase from a European eBay seller. I sorta just stored it away 'for later'. You can bet I'm going to be digging it out and using it asap! Thanks for the heads up!

  48. #48

    Default Re: Sample of Chanel Pour Monsieur?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    Thanks Mike, I bid this am before someone beat me to it. I have been wanting to try this one for some time so I was not too put off by the price.
    Last edited by auee; 21st October 2009 at 11:43 AM.

  49. #49

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre

    good posts heynow.

    Quote Originally Posted by heynow View Post
    You're right it is not a 'thing' - that was an anology. However a fragrance is not a chypre because it resembles 'Chypre de Coty' (which 99% of people today haven't smelled). Most chypres smell nothing at all like Chypre de Coty, and if that were the criterea then Derby wouldn't be chypre (it is), Pour Monieur wouldn't be a chypre (it is), and Givenchy III wouldn't be chypre (it is) because none of them resemble Chypre de Coty. I own Chypre de Coty and maybe 1 in 10 chypres smell anything like it.
    this is what puzzles me. in an interview on this site michael edwards mentions that pour monsieur is the closest match to coty chypre on the market today. and now you say it's nothing like it. but then, some others are. confusing. in your view, what are these closest matches, then?

    same questions go for anyone else around here who smelled the original by coty, if you please.
    Last edited by gido; 21st October 2009 at 01:34 PM.

  50. #50
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by gido View Post
    ...this is what puzzles me. in an interview on this site michael edwards mentions that pour monsieur is the closest match to coty chypre on the market today. and now you say it's nothing like it. but then, some others are. confusing. in your view, what are these closest matches, then?

    same questions go for anyone else around here who smelled the original by coty, if you please.
    gido - first of all, I think I've learned that I can use the comments of authorities (like Turin and Edwards) and Basenoters as a guide in determining what a fragrance smells like and perhaps what other fragrances resemble it, but ultimately all of us have different noses and we sometimes have wildly different opinions on the same scent.

    Having said that, I have smelled both Chanel Pour Monsieur and Chypre. I think they both are similar, but of course if you blindfolded me I would be able to tell them apart.

    The Chanel is more citric and it has an unmistakeable Chanel house note (aldehyde?) that I can smell right away. It's been said before that CPM smells 'grey' and I tend to agree with that vague adjective. The Coty is much sweeter, it's fruitier (perhaps even fruitier than Mitsouko by Guerlain) and most importantly...more than any other chypre I've tested (and I've tested a lot of them), Chypre delivers a strong 'phantom' vibration from the bergamot, labdanum and oakmoss. Not a physical vibration, it's hard to describe...it's like an olfactory vibration...it tickles my nose a bit - in a good way. It smells sort of red and purple - almost jewel like. When I smelled it, many elements of other fragrances clicked into place. It was like finding a long lost pair of 3-D glasses and suddenly being able to see the depth on the movie screen you were missing before.

    Both good fragrances. Both similar categories of fragrance. But smelling them side by side, their inherent differences pop out at you, with no question.

    To answer your specific question: What fragrance closely resembles Chypre? Vintage Mitsouko (EdT) by Guerlain.
    "You are here to enable the Divine purpose of the Universe to unfold. That is how important you are."

    -- Eckhart Tolle

  51. #51

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Wow... mikeperez takes the words out of my mouth.... When discussing chypres it's important to note that there is a difference between structure and aroma. As scentemental discusses, oakmoss is used not only as a fragrance note but as a fixative for other ingredients. I think of the chypre accord as a the frame of a building upon which the floors, walls, etc. are built. You see the outside of the building but the frame is what's holding it together. As mikeperez alludes to, there is a thing one smells when the chypre accord is present, and it's difficult to articulate what that 'thing' is. MP calls it a vibration, which is a good description. Personally I sense a 'fizziness' that's created when bergamot meets oakmoss - a phantom note of sorts. So even in a scent like Derby which smells nothing like Chypre de Coty, I can smell that 'thing' tha tells me the chypre structure is lurking.

    Chypre de Coty is far lighter and more floral then most chypres are. Perhaps it's just the formula of my particular parfum but I don't get a whole lot of oakmoss at all. Mr. Edwards obviously knows what he's talking about, and what I said about PM not smelling like Chypre de Coty really was aimed at the citrus opening of PM and woodier drydown. Therefore if the sole factor for being a chypre is 'smelling like Chypre de Coty' then PM would not obviously be a chypre. However, when it comes to structure - the proportion of bergamot/oakmoss/labdanum the two feel very similar. I'll admit I've only ever smeled my Chypre de Coty bottle and no other concentration or formula, so it's entirely possible that other versions are closer to PM then my own.

    So how does one learn to identify the chypre accord, you may ask? I would suggest sampling some of the more stripped down chypres - those in which the accord is most obvious such as PM, vintage Givenchy III, Estee Lauder Aliage, vintage Mitsouko, vintage Miss Dior, etc. The commoon 'thing' you'll smell in all of these is the chypre accord. Then if you sample some more complex scents that still have chypre accord somewhat present - ADP Profumo EdP (vintage), Guerlain Parure, Lauder Azuree, Solange Cosmic, Aramis 900, Dior Diorling, etc. and can identify that common 'thing' then you now know what a chypre smells like.

    I don't have all the scents I've listed but I have some. If you'd like a little help with some of the samples send me a PM and I'd be glad to get you started.

    Most like Chypre de Coty are: Mitsouko, Aliage, and Givenchy III imho
    Last edited by heynow; 21st October 2009 at 04:11 PM.

  52. #52
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Extremely informative thread. Learned so much.
    Last edited by MFJ; 21st October 2009 at 05:49 PM.

  53. #53

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    I think the fragrance I’m wearing today, Romeo Gigli per Uomo, is a very nice masculine chypre. I can sense what I believe is the chypre accord in this, the “fizzyness” or “vibration” that has been described in this thread…the Directory lists a very complex pyramid, with bergamot among the top notes and oak (-moss?) among the base notes…no labdanum listed.
    Anyone else like this one or agree with me on it’s “chypr-ishness”?
    “I wanna say something. I’m gonna put it out there. If you like it, you can take it, if you don’t, send it right back…."

  54. #54

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snafoo View Post
    I believe Tuscany is a fougere.

    I second Tiffany for Men; it has a passing resemblance to Chanel PM and is arguably easier to obtain. I personally prefer Chanel by a narrow margin. Both were created by Jacques Polge.
    Personally, I like Tiffany even better than the Chanel... lasts longer and has a note that I truly enjoy.

  55. #55
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    I think Romeo Gigli is more of a fougere/oriental, no?

    More information about chypres can be found on these two informative threads:

    http://community.basenotes.net/showthread.php?p=1056249
    http://community.basenotes.net/showthread.php?t=193590
    "You are here to enable the Divine purpose of the Universe to unfold. That is how important you are."

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  56. #56
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    More information about chypres can be found on these two informative threads:

    http://community.basenotes.net/showthread.php?p=1056249
    http://community.basenotes.net/showthread.php?t=193590
    Thanks for the links, Mike! I definitely need to know/learn more about chypres.
    Last edited by MFJ; 21st October 2009 at 07:04 PM.

  57. #57

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    I think Romeo Gigli is more of a fougere/oriental, no?
    ...except that, according to the pyramid in the directory, there is no lavender or tonka/coumarin in it.
    Also, I don't get any of the typical fougere "freshness" from Romeo Gigli.
    I do smell "oriental" though...there's a lot of spices going on in there! This could be one of those numerous frags that are really impossible to pin down...
    Last edited by arlecchino; 21st October 2009 at 07:27 PM.
    “I wanna say something. I’m gonna put it out there. If you like it, you can take it, if you don’t, send it right back…."

  58. #58

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    mr. edwards classifies romeo gigli man as woods. which is in between mossy woods (basically his name for chypre) and woody oriental on his fragrance wheel. look it up for a good description on his site.

    thanks for the answers. i wonder how different these formula's of chypre have been. it has been around for more than half a century.

    at what time did coty start to drastically cheapen their formulas?

  59. #59

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by tott View Post
    Fougere: it contains lavender, oakmoss and tonka (=coumarin).
    Yes, quite definitely a fougere. I've recently aquired the vintage versions, and I love it to death.
    "I exist for myself, and for those to whom my unquenchable thirst for freedom gives everything, but also for everyone, since insofar as I am able to love - I love everyone. Of noble hearts, I am the noblest - and the most generous of those that yearn to give love in return. - I am a human being, I love death and I love life."

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    My classics: Dior Homme EdT, YSL Rive Gauche PH, Helmut Lang Cuiron, L'Occitane Neroli (vintage), Davidoff Zino, L'Occitane Eau des Baux

    http://www.basenotes.net/wardrobe/2976

  60. #60

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    What about Lauder for men by EL & Boucheron Pour Homme edt/edp ?

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