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  1. #1

    Default How to build an orris accord...

    Hi everyone!!!
    Since Irival ( Orris ROot Replacer) Is expensive and hard to find, is there any suggestion of how to make an "Orris Accord"? Thanks.

  2. #2

    Default Re: How to build an orris accord...

    Isoraldeine 70 would be a good place to start and is available from both Perfumerís Apprentice and Hekserij.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  3. #3

    Default Re: How to build an orris accord...

    I ordered it already from PA. Also a friend of mine gave me this, in order to build an "orris" accord:
    -Ionone Alpha -1
    -Dihydro ionone beta -2
    -Irone alpha @10% -2 ( hard to get and expensive, but we can experiment leaving it out)
    -Isoraldeine 95 - 5
    Hope it helps. I am wondering ( Since orris is used as base note) how we can create an "iris-orris" in top and heart notes of any composition.....any idea (I know carrot and celery)?
    Then you can see that I am obsessed with orris..
    Thanks always Chris !!!!!

  4. #4

    Default Re: How to build an orris accord...

    I think if you want irris-orris as a middle to top note, what you are really looking for is violet - something I must say I really love - and then you are looking at a combination of the main ionones: alpha, beta, alpha-methyl and perhaps dihydro ionone beta. You might add isoraldeine 95 (more violet and less orris than the 70) and undecavertol too.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  5. #5

    Default Re: How to build an orris accord...

    Great Chris. Thank you.

  6. #6

    Default Re: How to build an orris accord...

    Quote Originally Posted by yandynestor View Post
    Great Chris. Thank you.
    Youíre welcome. Another thought if you are trying to create a violet accord: youíll need cucumber aldehyde (trans-2-cis-6-nonadienal) in traces too. Donít use too much or it will go from violet to melon quite suddenly (and then to cucumber if you keep going).
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  7. #7

    Default Re: How to build an orris accord...

    Great Post Chris!!!!

  8. #8

    Default Re: How to build an orris accord...

    I didn't realize about cucumber aldehyde..interesting. What about Orriniff ( I can smell some cucumber there) and Violiff? Any suggestion of woods and musks to impart more coolness to my orris-iris-violet creation? I was thinking in Norlimbanol , but in small traces too, cause it can overpower any composition. Thanks always Chris!!!!!!

  9. #9

    Default Re: How to build an orris accord...

    The best I find to getting the ingredients right is a headspace analysis if you can find one: cucumber aldehyde is counterintuitive I agree, but is also in the scents of the hyacinth and narcissus flowers in tiny amounts and is an essential for a good violet IMO. I like to have some green-ness in it too - violet leaf absolute is the obvious choice, but also leaf alcohol (again part of the scent of the real flower).

    Offiniff and Violiff are both pre-mixed accords by IFF so I canít say exactly whatís in them, but certainly Violiff is intended to be used as-is to create a violet note. I donít use either personally as I have an accord of my own devising that I prefer to use.

    Now as to the woods and musks - I have used a tiny amount of norlimbanol, a whole collection of different musks and some Chinese Cedarwood. If you donít have the Chinese then Virginian works well too and is cheaper.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  10. #10

    Default Re: How to build an orris accord...

    Chris thank you always! What a expensive hobby! I feel will never finish buying something that is missing.
    Sometimes I tell my self: Do a minimalist-synthetic fragrance and that's it. But I dont want to give up, even if I spend a whole year collecting the right ingredients for my iris-orris perfume , and learning from my mistakes; and now (as you saw in my other post) I want to make a metallic accord. Maybe they will work very well together. I want to have access to Maurice Roucel " Black Book" and steal the secret of Lutens "Iris Silver Mist". I believe that perfume is the reason of my insomnia.
    Can I steal it......?

  11. #11

    Default Re: How to build an orris accord...

    Having just answered a question about building an orris accord in a pm, I was going to post the answer in a new thread, but thought it might be more useful to update this old one instead. Since this was last updated a number of materials that were hard to find have become easier to get. For example both Hermitage and De Hekserij now stock alpha-Irone.

    Here is the summary of approach alternatives I came up with to answer the question:

    With Iris and Orris (usually interchangeable terms) there are several approaches to the scent:
    1) products produced from real, aged iris root. These are expensive (very, very expensive) and have to be dosed in fairly small amounts because they often also have solubility problems. They are very beautiful and the scent is mostly based on Irones, but also contains a number of other elements. The result is lovely, very persistent and exalts other florals as well as acting as a floral-fixative.

    2) synthetic irones - of these only alpha-irone is available in small amounts. Still very expensive, though vastly cheaper than the natural material. Alpha-irone is lovely, very persistent and exalts other florals very well but doesn’t have much fixation value.

    3) a synthetic blend can be used to replace the natural. Orris Givco is one such and is available in small amounts - this is cheaper than alpha-irone and smells much more like the real orris root products. It doesn’t have a great deal of fixation and isn’t as exalting as the alpha-irone but it’s pretty good stuff and smells divine.

    4) the cheapest option is to use ionones - normally described as violet rather than iris - this is deceptive because when the molecule responsible for the scent of iris was being sought it was actually alpha ionone that was synthesised and the researchers were for years convinced that they had indeed isolated what we now know is alpha-irone because the olfactory profile is so similar. Ionones can be bought very cheaply and are widely available. A combination with some amber ingredients can give you a very beautiful effect indeed.

    Hopefully that may be useful to someone!
    Last edited by Chris Bartlett; 20th May 2014 at 09:58 AM. Reason: corrected formatting
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  12. #12

    Default Re: How to build an orris accord...

    Hmm.. I have some myristic acid lying around to experiment with.. Thought that since Orris butter in mainly this acid, it could act similarly as a fixative, though I haven't checked it yet - just throwing an idea.

  13. #13
    rickbr's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to build an orris accord...

    Bumping this thread, i think that this pdf with a further information of orris profile would be useful for someone searching information to understand orris.esse_oils_1995_2000_p41_43.pdf

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