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  1. #1

    Default Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    Hi everyone!

    I've read something about carrots seed essence (or oil?) used as substitute for iris, which is one of the most expensive raw material in perfumery... Did you hear about that? The exemple would be the reformulated Dior Homme.
    I guess carrot is not as pricey as iris, so...



    Thanx!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    Carrot can of course be put to a good use as well. See Lutens Iris Silver Mist. Or (I don't like it, but some do) J'aime le carottes by Honore des Pres.

    cacio

  3. #3

    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    lol...... With all the fuss people have with that iris "makeup smell" in the Dior Homme range. I do not think replacing it with the smell of carrots is going to curry favor with the fragrance community... lol


  4. #4
    Dependent heperd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    It is probably easier to use a chemical that smells like iris just like all the other chemicals that smell like natural things in frags...

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    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    What's up, Doc?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    So Bugs Bunny wears Dior Homme?

    Seriously - maybe it's not so simple but if carrot is a substitute (not just another ingredient to complement the iris) those frags should've been less expensive, at least those mass marketed? Sayin that I assume that carrot is not so pricey...

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    It's not exactly the same smell, although carrotseed oil is very similar to iris. But I have to tell you guys that I smelled a fragrance based around carrotseed oil that just took my breath away. A good perfumer can do amazing things with carrotseed oil.

    Sometimes real iris is the key. Go sniff the recent Chanel no. 19 Poudré, which features Chanel's own, very real, very high-quality iris. Honestly, I don't think that iris would be as popular with the boys as whatever combination of things is used in Dior Homme. I have read that the secret to Dior Homme is a very brilliant "fake iris" accord. Whatever it is, I like it.

    Perfume is a huge rip-off anyway. If they can fool me - fine. But if the actual *perceived quality* goes down - THAT'S where they've gone too far.
    * * * *

  8. #8

    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    The price of ingredients is usually a small fraction of the total cost of the fragrance.

    I'm not an expert here, but I think I read that the resurgence of iris in mainstream perfumery (including dior homme) was due to a new extraction method of iris that cut the cost dramatically.

    cacio

  9. #9

    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    I didnt know iris is expensive, it is just a flower right?

    But the first thing I thought of when I read the thread title was Serge Lutens Iris Silver Mist.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    The price of ingredients is usually a small fraction of the total cost of the fragrance.

    I'm not an expert here, but I think I read that the resurgence of iris in mainstream perfumery (including dior homme) was due to a new extraction method of iris that cut the cost dramatically.

    cacio
    You're right, cacio. That's definitely part of it. The demand for iris has nurtured a variety of innovations. There is a patent out for a way to accelerate the curing of orris root, and supposedly that's part of the increased availability of the real stuff. People are planting more, too. But there are some "synthetic iris accords" that are supposedly behind the explosion of iris as a primary note, even in lower-end fragrances. That said, people tend to dismiss synthetic reconstitutions too easily, in my opinion.

    You only need a portion of the components in rose - some of them totally synthetic, and others from cheaper natural sources - to make a beautiful rose fragrance. Expensive rose absolutes are nice, as are fragrances that use them, but in many cases, a beautiful rose fragrance can be made without the real thing - especially when a sharp perfumer is creating an abstract impression of a rose. I'm sure it's the same with iris.

    I love the iris in all these recent iris fragrances, and I know that at least some are synthetic, based on perfumer admissions in various sources (one of them pointed the accusing finger at Dior Homme, too.). But if a perfumer can chemically abstract part of a true iris scent, and fluff it up a bit with things that were never there, but smell like they were, I'm quite happy.

    I'm on my iPad right now, but I'll dig for that patent and the allegations against DH when I'm back on my computer.
    * * * *

  11. #11

    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    I love carrot seed oil! I actually prefer it to the smell of raw iris butter... Though undoubtedly it's less useful as a stand-alone note. I think there's a lot in Iris Silver Mist.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it's in many iris replacements, though. I could swear there's a carrot note in the current Shalimar EdP.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    Does anybody happen to know the aroma chemical name for the synthetic Iris used in Dior Homme?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke Hunt View Post
    Does anybody happen to know the aroma chemical name for the synthetic Iris used in Dior Homme?
    Here are some links you might find interesting:

    http://www.anothermag.com/current/vi...olge_Perfumier

    http://www.chandlerburr.com/newsite/...meprevious.php

    Look especially at this quote:

    "Iris, handled correctly, is liquid good taste. It also, incidentally, does not exist. It is impossible for technical reasons to wring any natural scent from iris flowers, and all iris scents are created with synthetic molecules: Ionones, inexpensive but quite nice, irones, very expensive and gorgeous, and marvelous orris aldehydes can simulate terrific iris scents. Here are four masterpieces built on the smell of iris: ..."
    The very expensive irones are the components of real orris. Ionones are woody florals of similar structure but not really all that similar smell, IMO. I have not smelled orris aldehydes alone.

    Not sure what exact combination of things are used in Dior Homme, however.
    * * * *

  14. #14

    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    Mark Birley's original cologne has carrot seed:

    http://www.luckyscent.com/shop/secti...y_For_Men.html
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    Iris + carrot seed is kind of like peanut butter and jelly. One isn't a substitute for the other, really, but they go together so very well.
    ***For sale:

    Iris Pallida 50ml

    Ungaro I 75ml

    and more!
    - http://www.basenotes.net/threads/301...n-Man-and-more

  16. #16

    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    No way hozay

  17. #17

    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    Not sure what exact combination of things are used in Dior Homme, however.
    The chemicals used to render an orris/iris smell are pretty cheap. I own an orris fragrance (L.T.Piver/Floramye) which costs about 20$/125ml. In comparison to Chanel #19 its different but not so much on the orris part. I've got real (really real) orris too. I personally think Dior Homme is a not so good rendition of the typical orris note - way too sweet.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    ... Sometimes real iris is the key. Go sniff the recent Chanel no. 19 Poudré, which features Chanel's own, very real, very high-quality iris. Honestly, I don't think that iris would be as popular with the boys as whatever combination of things is used in Dior Homme. I have read that the secret to Dior Homme is a very brilliant "fake iris" accord. Whatever it is, I like it....
    ??

    Iris notes/accords are the perfumier's creative attempts to replicate the iris fragrance inasmuch as no essential oil can be had from the iris flower itself. A genuine iris scent, per se, does not exist. Rather, a palette of various elements serves as the raw material for the perfumier to construct the illusion.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Carrot intead of Iris in perfume industry?

    Quote Originally Posted by WildThingy View Post
    The chemicals used to render an orris/iris smell are pretty cheap. I own an orris fragrance (L.T.Piver/Floramye) which costs about 20$/125ml. In comparison to Chanel #19 its different but not so much on the orris part. I've got real (really real) orris too. I personally think Dior Homme is a not so good rendition of the typical orris note - way too sweet.
    I agree that DH is really sweet, but I do like it a lot. I'll have to check out Floramye. I came very close to a buy on that one. Thanks for mentioning it.

    Quote Originally Posted by dollars&scents View Post
    ??

    Iris notes/accords are the perfumier's creative attempts to replicate the iris fragrance inasmuch as no essential oil can be had from the iris flower itself. A genuine iris scent, per se, does not exist. Rather, a palette of various elements serves as the raw material for the perfumier to construct the illusion.
    You don't say!

    Orris/Iris - I'm not picky. When people say there is no "real" iris - and then the industry raises these things with an incredible amount of effort to get most of the smell by a bass-ackwards way out of the root....

    People can call it what they want - I call it "real" iris.
    * * * *

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