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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    This must be an even touchier subject than I realized.
    Last edited by kumquat; 14th June 2014 at 09:24 PM.
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  2. #62

    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    I agree kumquat, not taking this seriously. Its been a very long debated subject for years here. My notes in this thread are simply what I've read through the years. As kicked to death here, no one knows, can't really prove, and as long as you're happy with your method, who cares. The few times I've applied to the wrist, if it was a strong fragrance, I applied to one wrist the rubbed on to the other. If a weaker fragrance, I just put a spray on each one. I might start applying to the wrist just to keep it off my chest so that my nose doesn't get attacked. I've been doing the back of the neck lately and that seems to be working.
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  3. #63
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Why is the thread starter banned?

    And Scentologist, those two articles reinforce just what I've said.
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  4. #64
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Quote Originally Posted by tensor9 View Post
    Why is the thread starter banned?



    No clue - it was a long time ago & presumably nothing to do with this thread as there are no post deletions.
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  5. #65

    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Quote Originally Posted by tensor9 View Post
    Why is the thread starter banned?
    A word to the wise. Discussing banned members is strictly verboten. Continue and you might be joining the list yourself soon.
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  6. #66
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Ahhh, I see. This was a bumped thread.
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  7. #67
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Quote Originally Posted by Marais View Post
    A word to the wise. Discussing banned members is strictly verboten. Continue and you might be joining the list yourself soon.
    Seriously?
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  8. #68
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Quote Originally Posted by tensor9 View Post
    Ahhh, I see. This was a bumped thread.
    Yup
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  9. #69

    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Quote Originally Posted by tensor9 View Post

    And Scentologist, those two articles reinforce just what I've said.
    Dude, you have a problem. If you're right in whatever you've said, which I can't recall, great for you. I'm neutral and don't care however the coin may fall. I apply the way I like. Still, no one cares what you've said. Guess what? You can't prove it. Thats why speaking with such conviction makes you look foolish. I'll be sure to contact all the scientific journals to let them all know that whatever you say is indeed fact, because you said so lol. Done with this discussion.
    Is the juice worth the squeeze?

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Also many bottles; such as Sous les Vent I just applied, are "splash" bottles. How else are you supposed to apply? I don't feel like messing around with the little stopper. It evaporates before it hits my skin. Talk about a waste.
    Currently wearing: French Cancan by Caron

  11. #71

    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Quote Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
    Also many bottles; such as Sous les Vent I just applied, are "splash" bottles. How else are you supposed to apply? I don't feel like messing around with the little stopper. It evaporates before it hits my skin. Talk about a waste.
    Okay this is a new discussion so I can comment lol. Yet another much debated topic. Will dabbing with a stopper on the skin transfer bacteria to the juice in the bottle? Same goes for dabbing with your finger. Just like the previous discussion, there can good arguments to justify both sides of the coin. Is there a right or wrong? I don't think so. Its personal preference. My preference has always been to use aseptic technique when it comes to a splash bottle. I prefer pouring a little onto my hand and be careful as not to over-pour. However, I've dabbed many times.
    Is the juice worth the squeeze?

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Quote Originally Posted by Scentologist View Post
    Dude, you have a problem. If you're right in whatever you've said, which I can't recall, great for you. I'm neutral and don't care however the coin may fall. I apply the way I like. Still, no one cares what you've said. Guess what? You can't prove it. Thats why speaking with such conviction makes you look foolish. I'll be sure to contact all the scientific journals to let them all know that whatever you say is indeed fact, because you said so lol. Done with this discussion.
    This is my last contribution to the discussion as well. The two articles both stated that rubbing merely increases evaporation rate, and one explicitly states that the molecules aren't broken. This exactly what I posted earlier in the thread--that's all. I only commented on the chemistry, not on whether one should or should not rub. I couldn't care less how someone chooses to apply their fragrance. I was merely stating that the reasoning used by some who are against rubbing is flawed.

    I have a Ph.D. in chemistry, and I don't need a scientific publication to convince me of a conclusion I've reached based on basic chemistry.
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  13. #73
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    I do have a decant of it somewhere but I can't find it. I hate getting it on my hands and fingers where it needs to be washed off. Also a waste.
    Last edited by kumquat; 13th June 2014 at 08:56 PM.
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  14. #74
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    One more thought on rubbing it in...

    I've been watching some videos online recently about attars. And since most of this style fragrances are sold in the middle east, practically all video footage was from UAE, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Omen, Qatar, etc. And practically all attars are sold in dabber style format, not in spray. I found it interesting when they were showing both SAs as well as people shopping in stores testing different attars - both men and women - they'd dab a bit of attar on their arm or back of the hand, and immediately rub it in for a few seconds, and only then do the sniff test. What is that telling us?

    I'm guessing the application matters. Sprayers can cover a large skin area quickly, and start the evaporating process instantly, releasing the fragrance. Attars applied by a single drop on skin "need" to be dispersed and spread over an area of skin, otherwise there's very little evaporation happening and no scent gets released. We don't "smell" the fragrances themselves, we get the smell from the evaporative qualities of fragrances - molecules are carried away from skin by whatever base was used. In western perfumery it's typically alcohol, but since that's banned in the middle east, they use oils instead - and those further need some rubbing to get the fragrance molecules spread out and moving to release the scent.

    That's my thought, and my opinion, of course. Just something I thought about while watching these videos, how different it all looked from our more western fragrance shop excursions and in-store testing.

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Quote Originally Posted by remik View Post
    One more thought on rubbing it in...

    I've been watching some videos online recently about attars. And since most of this style fragrances are sold in the middle east, practically all video footage was from UAE, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Omen, Qatar, etc. And practically all attars are sold in dabber style format, not in spray. I found it interesting when they were showing both SAs as well as people shopping in stores testing different attars - both men and women - they'd dab a bit of attar on their arm or back of the hand, and immediately rub it in for a few seconds, and only then do the sniff test. What is that telling us?

    I'm guessing the application matters. Sprayers can cover a large skin area quickly, and start the evaporating process instantly, releasing the fragrance. Attars applied by a single drop on skin "need" to be dispersed and spread over an area of skin, otherwise there's very little evaporation happening and no scent gets released. We don't "smell" the fragrances themselves, we get the smell from the evaporative qualities of fragrances - molecules are carried away from skin by whatever base was used. In western perfumery it's typically alcohol, but since that's banned in the middle east, they use oils instead - and those further need some rubbing to get the fragrance molecules spread out and moving to release the scent.

    That's my thought, and my opinion, of course. Just something I thought about while watching these videos, how different it all looked from our more western fragrance shop excursions and in-store testing.
    I concur. This makes perfect sense. It seems like we are all on the same page.
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  16. #76

    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Quote Originally Posted by tensor9 View Post
    This is my last contribution to the discussion as well. The two articles both stated that rubbing merely increases evaporation rate, and one explicitly states that the molecules aren't broken. This exactly what I posted earlier in the thread--that's all. I only commented on the chemistry, not on whether one should or should not rub. I couldn't care less how someone chooses to apply their fragrance. I was merely stating that the reasoning used by some who are against rubbing is flawed.

    I have a Ph.D. in chemistry, and I don't need a scientific publication to convince me of a conclusion I've reached based on basic chemistry.
    All sounds good to me. I only presented arguments for both sides, which means I'm unbiased. Don't take it personally. There are thousands of ingredients in perfumery. To say they all behave the same is narrow. Lets take something I know about such as common aspirin. It has a defined structure complete with bonds and all the physical data you'd look look at. Well according to receptor theory, it also has a define pharmacologic response, with x side effects, certain drug interactions, and specific storage requirements. A medicinal chemist might know this. Okay, does this mean you can crush a tablet, throw it in a bottle of water and you can drink some tomorrow for the same effect? Why not according to you, because it is structurally sound that no amount of tampering in the slightest will disturb its response in the human body. Right? Wrong. It is highly susceptible to hydrolysis and must be stored in a fixed oil, it it were to be a non-solid. Didn't even have to rub it. So, my point is, with all the natural oils out there, far be it for me to say how each one reacts in a liquid environment, especially with what we've discussed. You simply can't say. If it were only possible to rub, scrape some cells, dilute them, then run some mass spec and H-NMR to see if the profile matches up afterwards. Your training and experience doesn't give you confidence to say with certainty and nor does mine, which is why I'm open on the idea. It is possible for some to be evaporated or even destroyed. If you don't think so, then you're not a scientist, because anything is possilbe

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  17. #77

    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Quote Originally Posted by remik View Post
    One more thought on rubbing it in...

    I've been watching some videos online recently about attars. And since most of this style fragrances are sold in the middle east, practically all video footage was from UAE, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Omen, Qatar, etc. And practically all attars are sold in dabber style format, not in spray. I found it interesting when they were showing both SAs as well as people shopping in stores testing different attars - both men and women - they'd dab a bit of attar on their arm or back of the hand, and immediately rub it in for a few seconds, and only then do the sniff test. What is that telling us?

    I'm guessing the application matters. Sprayers can cover a large skin area quickly, and start the evaporating process instantly, releasing the fragrance. Attars applied by a single drop on skin "need" to be dispersed and spread over an area of skin, otherwise there's very little evaporation happening and no scent gets released. We don't "smell" the fragrances themselves, we get the smell from the evaporative qualities of fragrances - molecules are carried away from skin by whatever base was used. In western perfumery it's typically alcohol, but since that's banned in the middle east, they use oils instead - and those further need some rubbing to get the fragrance molecules spread out and moving to release the scent.

    That's my thought, and my opinion, of course. Just something I thought about while watching these videos, how different it all looked from our more western fragrance shop excursions and in-store testing.
    I too agree that it makes perfect sense. Hell if I know. Increasing surface area seems logical.
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  18. #78
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    I never expect a genius on these things. He's also a ridiculous Creed whore which doesn't help. Mainly it's just amusing, and he's had an adorable little cutie on there a couple of times. Can't remember her name but she likes the fragrances and looks great while giving her impressions.

    Rubbing the fragrance in makes no significant difference. Probably something he got from a fruity Creed employee. It doesn't bring you to the base notes faster or any of the other stuff might believe. But it's hilarious to watch him tell people not to do it. :-)
    Last edited by pluran; 13th June 2014 at 09:56 PM.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Quote Originally Posted by remik View Post
    One more thought on rubbing it in...

    I've been watching some videos online recently about attars. And since most of this style fragrances are sold in the middle east, practically all video footage was from UAE, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Omen, Qatar, etc. And practically all attars are sold in dabber style format, not in spray. I found it interesting when they were showing both SAs as well as people shopping in stores testing different attars - both men and women - they'd dab a bit of attar on their arm or back of the hand, and immediately rub it in for a few seconds, and only then do the sniff test. What is that telling us?

    I'm guessing the application matters. Sprayers can cover a large skin area quickly, and start the evaporating process instantly, releasing the fragrance. Attars applied by a single drop on skin "need" to be dispersed and spread over an area of skin, otherwise there's very little evaporation happening and no scent gets released. We don't "smell" the fragrances themselves, we get the smell from the evaporative qualities of fragrances - molecules are carried away from skin by whatever base was used. In western perfumery it's typically alcohol, but since that's banned in the middle east, they use oils instead - and those further need some rubbing to get the fragrance molecules spread out and moving to release the scent.

    That's my thought, and my opinion, of course. Just something I thought about while watching these videos, how different it all looked from our more western fragrance shop excursions and in-store testing.
    Ok, I'll contribute some more, but only because it's not about rubbing per se.

    There seems to be some misconceptions here.

    Here's how a fragrance works.

    What we smell from a fragrance is the fragrance itself. The fragrance molecules evaporate all by themselves from your skin and travel in gaseous form to your nose, where the molecules interact with chemical receptors in the nose. The base, be it ethanol or oil or whatever is really just a delivery system. When you spray an ethanol-based fragrance, all of the ethanol evaporates almost immediately, leaving behind the fragrance oils (or solids!) behind. Ethanol smells like... ethanol, so it's a good thing it goes away quickly. The ethanol doesn't help carry the fragrance molecules away, since it's gone so quickly anyway; the fragrance molecules evaporate all on their own. With oils, the oil base doesn't evaporate as quickly as ethanol does, and because of its viscosity, it can't be easily sprayed. I'm of course referring to perfumed oils here as opposed to pure perfume oil. If the delivery medium, such as oil, stays around, it can affect evaporation, though.

    What it does come down to, as you said, is surface area. For a spray, the fragrance is automatically distributed over a fairly large surface area, which hastens evaporation (of both the ethanol and the fragrance). For an oil, since it can't be sprayed, you must manually spread it out over a larger area to help increase the evaporation rate.
    Last edited by tensor9; 13th June 2014 at 09:54 PM.
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  20. #80

    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Bah! lost my post.
    Last edited by Scentologist; 13th June 2014 at 10:03 PM.
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  21. #81
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    I've often wondered if certain perfume oils are "contraindicated", so to say. Does anyone know of any two oils that are on the DO NOT MIX list? haha
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  22. #82

    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Quote Originally Posted by tensor9 View Post
    I've often wondered if certain perfume oils are "contraindicated", so to say. Does anyone know of any two oils that are on the DO NOT MIX list? haha
    Oils can be mixed. Like always loves like. However, does this hold true for the ingredients? Not always. Give us some examples.
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  23. #83
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Quote Originally Posted by Scentologist View Post
    Oils can be mixed. Like always loves like. However, does this hold true for the ingredients? Not always. Give us some examples.
    I'm not talking about physical mixing. I'm asking about a chemical reaction between scent molecules. Was wondering if there are any two oils that you just shouldn't mix because of some chemical reaction that leads to something stinky.
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  24. #84

    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Quote Originally Posted by tensor9 View Post
    I'm not talking about physical mixing. I'm asking about a chemical reaction between scent molecules. Was wondering if there are any two oils that you just shouldn't mix because of some chemical reaction that leads to something stinky.
    Oh sorry man. My mistake. Well, stinky I'm sure lol. If there are reactions that do take place, I wonder to what extent it silences the original effect. Anyone know?
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  25. #85
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    Broscience is alive and well on basenotes.


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  26. #86
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    Default Re: Al from Street Scents is wrong about rubbing it in

    I just sprayed some French CanCan on my neck. Since I had extra running down I reached up and rubbed the spot with my wrist. I got plenty of top-notes, as usual. A full dose of fumes.
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