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  1. #1

    Default Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    Hello,

    I am making my first proper perfume. I have ordered the following ingredients:

    Oak Moss Absolute,*Opoponax Essential Oil,*Michelia Alba Leaf Essential Oil,*Bergamot (Sicilian)*EO, Clary Sage Certified Organic EO.

    I have also on hand some Cinnamon Leaf EO, Clove Bud EO, Rose Otto 3% Dilute.

    I found out that Perfect Potion are a good shop to get perfumers alcohol denatured with benzoin.

    Any suggestions for other oils or how to blend notes would be time saving and very much appreciated!

    Blessings
    Samantha
    Last edited by treatthyself; 18th May 2012 at 07:00 PM. Reason: forgot to add

  2. #2

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    you will need some musk, and perhaps some other animalic fixatives like ambergris, civet.

    with labdanum abs you could start making a chypre. add vanillin (vanilla) and you could go in the oriental direction.

    you could use some more floral elements, or woody ones.. there are lots of very useful things, really. far too many to mention.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    That's beginning to sound a little like Shalimar, which has always fascinated me! Thanks for your hints!

    Although I am not really interested in making a perfume from whale, or an animals perineal glands, or even a deer or stag. I don't think that's really necessary. Nor is it ethical.

    Although I have researched and found that Ambrette Seed Oil can be used instead of synthetics which is what I also want to stay away from when making my own perfume.
    Last edited by treatthyself; 19th May 2012 at 09:42 AM. Reason: thought about it

  4. #4

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    A quick word of warning before you start this project (if it isnít too late). Your rose oil at 3% - unless thatís been diluted in ethanol or something soluble in ethanol, you wonít be able to use it. Normally diluted EOs are, for reasons Iíve never understood, diluted in jojoba or almond or something of that sort, which will not dissolve in your ethanol: the mix will go milky and eventually separate out to leave blobs of oil at the bottom of the container.

    Youíll need to either buy pure rose oil, do without, or get some diluted in ethanol, DPG, TEC, DEP or something similar. If you want to avoid synthetics then youíre best off getting pure rose absolute or rose otto from a reputable source (much of what is on the market is adulterated, so beware - even very good, honest supplier can be fooled into selling duff oils and Iíve encountered this a lot with rose).

    There is nothing unethical about making perfume out of whale poo - you may find it distasteful - but I assure you the whale wonít mind.

    Animal musk is quite another matter and ambrette seed EO provides a good alternative to synthetic musk but is very expensive.

    Final thought - if you want to get close to Shalimar youíll also want some orris butter (concrete) - another horribly expensive ingredient Iím afraid - but very lovely and an essential part of the blend.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    Quote Originally Posted by treatthyself View Post
    time saving
    Hi Samantha, tempting though it seems, anything that 'saves time' in this wonderful hobby is of limited use. Nothing beats using the time effectively by studying the individual notes and practicing your accords. Just like learning the piano. Pay particular attention to Chris's warning about anything in jojoba... It is completely useless for alcohol based fragrances.

    Reading your list of ingredients it would seem that you have been ordering from New Directions: the michelia alba leaf gave it away. This is lovely stuff, but I find it tricky to blend as it can wash out other notes, which is surprising because, on its own, it seems so soft and gentle. Used with discretion, though, it has a nice diffusing quality for florals and citrus, as well as being a good fixative for those notes.

    As for alcohol, New Directions sells perfume grade denatured ethanol in aluminum bottles very cheaply, although when I placed an order yesterday, they were out of stock.

    ...and you're in Cairns! I love that town.

    Wayne

  6. #6

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    Hi Chris
    q
    Thanks for your reply. I have tried a few little blends, ruining the first few by seeing what happened when adding the wrong ingredients, although it is quite nice to have a hand sanitising spray with a little bergamot and rose otto dilute.

    I have also found the Clary Sage to be highly irritating to my sinus. Even when added to the proper benzoin denatured perfumers alcohol. And the Ambrette Seed I have yet to try but it is on it's way from a seemingly good eBay shop in the US.

    I fear I am overwhelmed by scents today so will be taking a break from scent experimentation to rest my sinus, particularly after bombarding it with wasabi on sushi followed by the smoke of a bar, but not that much, thankfully.

    As for the whale source it is not external shit, it is apparently and possibly a reason so many are still hunted for "scientific research" as the whale blubber is used for real ambergris. I am an activist since high school, so I won't easily be changing my ethical perspective. Once it's gone, it's gone forever.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    Hi Wayne

    Yes I am in Cairns, and yes it was from New Directions!

    I really like the Michelia Alba, but have not found it too overpowering, perhaps I am being a little underhanded. By saving time, I had not meant a sacrifice in quality of perfume. Although I should run around a bit once I get the urge to make perfume as I do get overexcited, and should let out some adrenalin or whatever it is.

    What I had hoped for is guidance in timing the additions of notes to meet the appropriate spacial scent intervals for a lovely perfume.. or anything regarding blends. I am doing this on a very small scale.

    I'm finding the insolubility of the very tacky molasses like vanilla a little issue. How can Ireduce that?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    Quote Originally Posted by treatthyself View Post
    As for the whale source it is not external shit, it is apparently and possibly a reason so many are still hunted for "scientific research" as the whale blubber is used for real ambergris. I am an activist since high school, so I won't easily be changing my ethical perspective. Once it's gone, it's gone forever.
    I don't think whale blubber is the source of ambergris. Ambergris is made in the whale's digestive system and then excreted or vomited out, much like cats with hairballs. Just like you don't need to kill a cat to get its hairballs, whales are not harmed to collect ambergris. Traditionally whales were hunted for oil and meat, today they are mostly hunted for meat. Other animals like the musk deer are indeed hunted to near extinction for medicine and perfumery.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    Any way it happens, I don't want things from animals other than beeswax, and honey.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    Quote Originally Posted by treatthyself View Post
    Any way it happens
    no, it doesn't, you are misinformed. ambergris taken from a killed whale is useless. the stuff needs to float on the ocean for many years to become the material that's used. we have no way to replicate this process. whales are never killed for ambergris, and the ambergris from killed whales is absolutely worthless.

    i second what chris suggested, get some ambrette seed eo, or even better the absolute. it contains musk, actually a very good one (ambrettolide). you will need some musk! making a tincture of ambrette seed gives a very pleasant odor to the alcohol, and certainly could be useful. but my tincture (i have never used it so far) still has a strong alcohol note to it, which lead me to believe that there might be very little ambrettolide in there (as this stuff is used to mature/mellow alcohol!) i have some pure ambrettolide as well, i will put both on a smelling strip to compare the basenotes, and will report back in a few days.

    i think angelica root is also used by natural perfumers for a musky note.
    Last edited by gido; 26th May 2012 at 05:16 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    What I meant was, lets just move right along, so anyway..Yes, I am getting Ambrette Seed Absolute - 1 dram, 4.5ml. for $40USD on eBay.

    That should be interesting then to find the results of your test!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    Quote Originally Posted by treatthyself View Post
    Hi Chris
    q
    Thanks for your reply. I have tried a few little blends, ruining the first few by seeing what happened when adding the wrong ingredients, although it is quite nice to have a hand sanitising spray with a little bergamot and rose otto dilute.

    I have also found the Clary Sage to be highly irritating to my sinus. Even when added to the proper benzoin denatured perfumers alcohol. And the Ambrette Seed I have yet to try but it is on it's way from a seemingly good eBay shop in the US.

    I fear I am overwhelmed by scents today so will be taking a break from scent experimentation to rest my sinus, particularly after bombarding it with wasabi on sushi followed by the smoke of a bar, but not that much, thankfully.

    As for the whale source it is not external shit, it is apparently and possibly a reason so many are still hunted for "scientific research" as the whale blubber is used for real ambergris. I am an activist since high school, so I won't easily be changing my ethical perspective. Once it's gone, it's gone forever.
    You are welcome.

    Taking regular breaks while you are smelling is a good idea. However you should not assume that because something you smell neat is unpleasant or irritating that it cannot be successfully used in a fragrance that you will like. More than half the materials I use routinely donít smell good to me on their own.

    Keep your mind open - this is a place for learning - ambergris is not and cannot be made form whale blubber. It is produced int he intestine and excreted by about 1% of Sperm Whales and collected from beaches by specialist collectors after years of weathering on ocean and shore. It involves less cruelty than the collection of beeswax from bees (which after all involves destroying their nest).

    There are many good reasons for avoiding the use of natural animal notes in perfumery and Iíve written extensively about them both here and elsewhere and everyone has to make their own judgement on ethical issues. Peddling prejudices and mis-information will only reduce the credibility of everything else you say: if you are an activist make sure that you are armed with accurate facts and you will be more effective.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    Chris, you are so good. What would this place be without your balanced reasoning and clarity of thought and expression? Thank you for all the time and effort you put into your responses.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    Quote Originally Posted by treatthyself View Post
    I'm finding the insolubility of the very tacky molasses like vanilla a little issue. How can Ireduce that?
    You should dissolve it in alcohol to reduce it to a thin liquid. Same for all the thick and sticky materials, such as your oak moss abs. 50% should do it, sometimes you'll need to go 25%. Then you just need to double or quadruple the amount you use, but you can easily and more accurately measure it by drops. Do the same for materials that are by nature very strong, eg Vetiver, allowing you to use smaller quantities without having to figure out how to measure half a drop!

    Most importantly, have fun and get a copy of Mandy Aftel's book... she shares your philosophies and it's a great read.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    Okay Chris.

    I guess I was influenced to believe from the name ambergris that it was harvested in a different manner to what you have described. Not going on any research myself, or activist reports. I don't believe that will make me less credible, it was just something I got stuck on.

    I hope it doesn't sour our communications. As I don't wish to bring disharmony.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    Okay Chris.

    I guess I was influenced to believe from the name ambergris that it was harvested in a different manner to what you have described. Not going on any research myself, or activist reports. I don't believe that will make me less credible, it was just something I got stuck on.

    I hope it doesn't sour our communications. As I don't wish to bring disharmony.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    Hi Trufflehunter

    Thanks for the advice with vanilla and other oils. I will look into the book by Aftel.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    In post 12 in this thread, there is a description of how to draw a diagram on all the natural subs for musk. May be of use.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Suggestions of fragrances to add for a woman

    Thanks mumsy!

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