The Secret of Nick-less Wet Shaving Appears to be...............

[Renato]

......... olive oil, or any vegetable oil, or even hair conditioner - applied as a pre-shave oil.

Several days ago I used the first shaving cream that let really me down - Arko Regular shaving cream. Using a Gillette Superspeed, I speedily got 6 or 7 nicks including two that wouldn't stop bleeding, despite repeated application of Alum and witch hazel. On the one hand I was darn annoyed. On the other hand, well, here was a reason to finally test whether that bottle of Art of Shaving Pre-shave oil I'd bought actually worked.

So, nearly two days later when my face had partially recovered, I applied a tiny amount of the Pre-Shave oil all over my face, then applied the Arko cream with a brush, as I'd done before, and shaved with a Feather razor. The result was that I got no nicks at all, and no aggravation whatsoever of my previous wounds from two days earlier.

Noting that olive oil used as pre-shave oil appears to have a small following at Blade &Badger, today I repeated the experiment using a small amount of Extra Virgin olive oil, the Arko cream and the Gillette SuperSpeed. Again, the result was no nicks. In both this case and that of the AOS pre-shave oil, it seemed obvious to me by feel alone that the razor was having an easier time cutting the whiskers.

Plainly, there is no real reason to use the pre-shave oil if one already has an extremely slippery shaving cream like Trumpers, or a good soap and good preparation, or a slippery non-lather lotion like Jack Black Beard Lube. But in the case of the more average creams and soaps, or where preparation with the soap may not be as good as it could be, then the use of pre-shave oil should in my opinion, be given strong consideration.

I note that when I raised this over at B&B, one respondent claimed he got better results than olive oil using hair conditioner of the type that hydrated hair (rather than the type that gives it a sheen). Others were using jojoba oil or grapeseed oil.

Regards,
Renato

P.S. Update: I used the AOS Pre-shave oil with Trumper shaving cream. The result was a shave pretty much the same as with the Arko cream and AOS Pre-shave oil - which was good, but not as good as using the Trumpers cream by itself. The Trumpers cream had lost its ultra slippery character which makes it so much better than the rest.

To summarise, pre-shave oil can thus improve performance of average creams, but may reduce performance of superior creams.

P.P.S. Update 2: In my Update post below I describe buying the mildest razor on the planet which had no trouble delivering a nickless shave with the troublesome Arko cream.

[Indaco]

I've found the Proraso pre-shave cream to have a similar effect. Usually it only makes a difference for me when I've got a very new sharp blade (like a Feather) on its first shave or a blade nearing the end of its life (like the five month-old Personna 74 I'm currently using).

[BurgundyMarsh]

I've found the Proraso pre-shave cream to have a similar effect. Usually it only makes a difference for me when I've got a very new sharp blade (like a Feather) on its first shave or a blade nearing the end of its life (like the five month-old Personna 74 I'm currently using).

It's only with a very new or very old blade that I have much of a problem. Following some of the shaving threads on here, I am shocked at what an ordeal shaving is for a lot of guys. I used to think "razor burn" was just an advertising gimmick. I have a light and fine beard and a close shave with a cheap Gillette disposable and Barbasol takes me about 90 seconds and a negligible amount of thought and effort. I gather a good shave costs some guys half an hour and a certain amount of agony. I would never have known without reading about it...

[Renato]

I've found the Proraso pre-shave cream to have a similar effect. Usually it only makes a difference for me when I've got a very new sharp blade (like a Feather) on its first shave or a blade nearing the end of its life (like the five month-old Personna 74 I'm currently using).

The reviews of Proraso pre-shave seem quite mixed at B&B, some think it's great, others think it does nothing. I suspect it's because the two groups are using different soaps and creams, those with the lesser ones noting how Proraso improves things, those with the better ones not noticing much difference. I like the smell of Proraso, it would be better than the smell of olive oil.
Cheers,
Renato

[Renato]

I used to think "razor burn" was just an advertising gimmick.

Believe me, it's no gimmick.

The real gimmick is "razor burn relief". I've tried plenty of creams and lotions that were supposed to provide that relief, but their effectiveness was usually pretty minimal - better than nothing, but not much better than average moisturiser.
Regards,
Renato

[Indaco]

It's only with a very new or very old blade that I have much of a problem. Following some of the shaving threads on here, I am shocked at what an ordeal shaving is for a lot of guys. I used to think "razor burn" was just an advertising gimmick. I have a light and fine beard and a close shave with a cheap Gillette disposable and Barbasol takes me about 90 seconds and a negligible amount of thought and effort. I gather a good shave costs some guys half an hour and a certain amount of agony. I would never have known without reading about it...

Poke around B&B a bit and most of the routines here will seem very straightforward. I usually had more issues getting a consistently close and comfortable shave with most cartridges than I like, and I got horrible razor burn from electrics. I usually take five minutes with a DE, maybe ten if I have to wait for the condensation on the mirror.

[Indaco]

The reviews of Proraso pre-shave seem quite mixed at B&B, some think it's great, others think it does nothing. I suspect it's because the two groups are using different soaps and creams, those with the lesser ones noting how Proraso improves things, those with the better ones not noticing much difference. I like the smell of Proraso, it would be better than the smell of olive oil.
Cheers,
Renato

I use TOBS sandalwood soap most of the time, so that could be the reason why I don't really need the Proraso often. I don't even use it everyday with this current blade, and I'm trying to see how long I can make a single Personna 74 last!

[Indaco]

Believe me, it's no gimmick.

The real gimmick is "razor burn relief". I've tried plenty of creams and lotions that were supposed to provide that relief, but their effectiveness was usually pretty minimal - better than nothing, but not much better than average moisturiser.
Regards,
Renato

I've found that Thayers non-alcoholic witch hazel with aloe vera works pretty well, but YMMV.

[Renato]

........ and I got horrible razor burn from electrics. I usually take five minutes with a DE, maybe ten if I have to wait for the condensation on the mirror.

My old Remington foil shaver (the "shave as close as blade or your money back" one) gave me shocking razor burn too after two or three weeks of use. I had to switch to a Philips rotary head one to stop it.
Renato

[Renato]

I've found that Thayers non-alcoholic witch hazel with aloe vera works pretty well, but YMMV.

Witch hazel works fine for minor razor burn, but even it won't do much for red raw razor burn on me (which fortunately I am getting a lot less of now).
Renato

[dollars&scents]

Way back when, I used Williams Lectric Shave as a primer to my electric shave. Without it, I got terrible razor burn every time.

[Renato]

Way back when, I used Williams Lectric Shave as a primer to my electric shave. Without it, I got terrible razor burn every time.

I had the same problem as you, it very bad with my Remington foil shavers, not as bad with my Philips rotary with fixed cutters (i.e not the cutters that flex to follow your face curves) and not as bad in the even earlier Remington Lektro shavers.

I did use Mennen Electric Pre-Shave lotion and the Remington Pre-Shave stick (powdery stuff you put all over your face) when I was having problems with electric shavers. But they didn't work that well for me. I finally solved the problem for me by using a soap that dries your skin out - Johnson& Johnson Clean and Clear Soap bar (the Clean &Clear liquid soap didn't work) and the medicated Sapoderm soap. Then I'd wait five minutes for my face to dry and then electric shave.

Not only was razor-burn and ingrown hairs reduced to near zero, but the life of my cutters increased from 6 months to three years or more. At the three year mark they still cut without irritation but they just took too long. However, when I transferred the very used cutters to the newer Philips flexible head shaver, they were terrible - which means that I'd probably only get a year and a half to two years out of them in the newer designed shavers.
Cheers,
Renato

[Mattybumpkin]

Before I started using a safety razor I used a Panasonic wet/dry electric in the shower, and I would use King of Shaves pre-shave oil with Kinexium. Hardly ever had razor burn and always got a great shave. I have sensitive skin too!

Now, give me a Edwin Jagger razor/brush, Astra blade and some Proraso shave cream and I'm good to go. With some Speick AS splash after of course..........

[Renato]

Before I started using a safety razor I used a Panasonic wet/dry electric in the shower, and I would use King of Shaves pre-shave oil with Kinexium. Hardly ever had razor burn and always got a great shave. I have sensitive skin too!

Now, give me a Edwin Jagger razor/brush, Astra blade and some Proraso shave cream and I'm good to go. With some Speick AS splash after of course..........

Does your Speick AS splash have anything it to moisturise the skin like the Mennen Skin Bracer and Trumper splashes have? Or is it a standard alcohol one?
Regards,
Renato

[Mattybumpkin]

Here's some info on Speick:

"Speick After Shave Lotion is a refreshing herbal lotion with the distinct scent of naural Speick plant extract. It restores balance to irritated skin and contains unique ingredients not found in other after shaves. Speick After Shave Lotion contains pure fermentation alcohol, a combination of essential oils, Speick plant extract (grown and harvested under bio-regulations) from high up in the Alps, skin toning witch hazel, lavender water, moisturizing agents as well as refreshing and astringent ingredients (menthol, camphor and alum). Different enough that every man should try this at some point in his life. A unique spicy scent."

Speickwerks in Stuttgart, Germany and the Rau family have been making fine soaps since 1862. Products incorporating the small Speick plant were developed in 1928 and have been used exclusively in production of very successful high quality natural body and face cosmetics. The Speick plant only grows in the Alpine meadows above 6,000 feet elevation. The little plant has a very unique spicy fragrance and produces ethereal oil that works in harmony with the central nervous system.

Alpine farmers collect the little plant, with special approval, for only a few weeks each autumn, exclusively for Speickwerks Natural Cosmetics, in carefully conserved amounts regulated by the Nockberge National Park where it grows with other protected species. The valuable ethereal oil and Valerian Celtica is extracted and certified as a controlled biological collection. The results are exclusive products from Speickwerks that have a cult following in German especially for use on sensitive skin.

I used it today, great stuff!

[Renato]

Here's some info on Speick:

"Speick After Shave Lotion is a refreshing herbal lotion with the distinct scent of naural Speick plant extract. It restores balance to irritated skin and contains unique ingredients not found in other after shaves. Speick After Shave Lotion contains pure fermentation alcohol, a combination of essential oils, Speick plant extract (grown and harvested under bio-regulations) from high up in the Alps, skin toning witch hazel, lavender water, moisturizing agents as well as refreshing and astringent ingredients (menthol, camphor and alum). Different enough that every man should try this at some point in his life. A unique spicy scent."

Speickwerks in Stuttgart, Germany and the Rau family have been making fine soaps since 1862. Products incorporating the small Speick plant were developed in 1928 and have been used exclusively in production of very successful high quality natural body and face cosmetics. The Speick plant only grows in the Alpine meadows above 6,000 feet elevation. The little plant has a very unique spicy fragrance and produces ethereal oil that works in harmony with the central nervous system.

Alpine farmers collect the little plant, with special approval, for only a few weeks each autumn, exclusively for Speickwerks Natural Cosmetics, in carefully conserved amounts regulated by the Nockberge National Park where it grows with other protected species. The valuable ethereal oil and Valerian Celtica is extracted and certified as a controlled biological collection. The results are exclusive products from Speickwerks that have a cult following in German especially for use on sensitive skin.

I used it today, great stuff!

Thanks, it sounds really interesting. I just checked Ebay and unfortunately the postage cost is greater than the actual aftershave. I'll keep an eye out for it on my next trip to Europe.
Cheers,
Renato

[Mattybumpkin]

Looks like you could get it from this company in Brisbane:

http://pureman.com.au/brands/speick

I can't vouch for them but looks like a legit company......................

Good luck!

[Renato]

Looks like you could get it from this company in Brisbane:

http://pureman.com.au/brands/speick

I can't vouch for them but looks like a legit company......................

Good luck!

Thanks. Not only does he carry Speick, he also carries Parker razors that I haven't found anybody else here carrying.
Renato

[Master-Classter]

do you guys find using a preshave oil gums up the brush?

[Renato]

do you guys find using a preshave oil gums up the brush?

It hasn't gummed up my wild boar brushes, but I haven't tried it with my badger brushes yet. I'm not particularly worried, since soap is basically a detergent, and it shouldn't have much trouble cleaning away some drops of vegetable oil.
Regards,
Renato

[mikeperez23]

Won't using olive oil on my face leave the scent of the oil on my face afterwards?

[Renato]

Won't using olive oil on my face leave the scent of the oil on my face afterwards?

I can't smell either olive oil or the AOS oil afterwards - maybe you will. There's usually lots of bits of shaving soap I wash off after shaving, and I think that does a good job of getting rid of any residual oil that hasn't been razored off.

Anyhow, it can't hurt if you give it a go once with whichever oil you have in your kitchen. If you don't like any residual smell, a bit of extra soap gets rid of it.
Regards,
Renato

[nathan.k]

I haven't had a serious nick with any razor since I was about 12 (not trying to brag; Mediterranean boys get whiskers early on ), but the real secret to nick-less wet shaving is... NO PRESSURE. A feather-light touch.
Second most important thing is finding the right blade to match your face and beard (I'd recommend the blue or black Gillette 7 o'clocks as a starting point).

[Renato]

I haven't had a serious nick with any razor since I was about 12 (not trying to brag; Mediterranean boys get whiskers early on ), but the real secret to nick-less wet shaving is... NO PRESSURE. A feather-light touch.
Second most important thing is finding the right blade to match your face and beard (I'd recommend the blue or black Gillette 7 o'clocks as a starting point).

The NO PRESSURE is a given for Double Edge shaving - but I guarantee you my Weishi 2003M will deliver me six good nicks no matter how light I'm doing it. But you do have to apply some pressure for cartridge shaving.

Blades do certainly vary. Finding the right one (or the most forgiving one) for a particular razor is no easy task though. I've got 7 O'clock Blue, but have never seen the Black.
Cheers,
Renato

[lessthanthree]

I can't say I've found any pre-shave oil that has made any notable difference to the shave. I'd rather invest the time/money elsewhere. What does make a difference to beard prep is a hot wash - preferably with flannel - and lathering with a brush. I agree with nathan.k - technique and hardware are the most important variables (I much prefer my Merkur 34HD with Derby blades than Astras, for example) for me.

[Primrose]

I can't say I've found any pre-shave oil that has made any notable difference to the shave. I'd rather invest the time/money elsewhere. What does make a difference to beard prep is a hot wash - preferably with flannel - and lathering with a brush. I agree with nathan.k - technique and hardware are the most important variables (I much prefer my Merkur 34HD with Derby blades than Astras, for example) for me.

I concur with this. Pre-shave oil does not make any difference with Truefitt and Hill shaving cream (cream in the tub, not the soap.) Just a stiff badger brush and hot water (in a shower) with the cream. (Using a Mach 3 razor.) No nicks.

[Renato]

I can't say I've found any pre-shave oil that has made any notable difference to the shave. I'd rather invest the time/money elsewhere. What does make a difference to beard prep is a hot wash - preferably with flannel - and lathering with a brush. I agree with nathan.k - technique and hardware are the most important variables (I much prefer my Merkur 34HD with Derby blades than Astras, for example) for me.

The investment in time and money - namely going to the kitchen and getting a couple of drops of whatever oil you are cooking with - is ultra-minuscule.

My original post relates to how to improve the performance of soaps and creams that one may have which are not performing well with one's equipment. Why throw them out and buy better ones, if they can be made to perform?
Regards,
Renato

[Renato]

I concur with this. Pre-shave oil does not make any difference with Truefitt and Hill shaving cream (cream in the tub, not the soap.) Just a stiff badger brush and hot water (in a shower) with the cream. (Using a Mach 3 razor.) No nicks.

I've never shaved in a shower in my life.
And I don't shave after a shower either- what's the point? I'd be going to bed straight afterwards.
Cheers,
Renato

[Primrose]

I've never shaved in a shower in my life.
And I don't shave after a shower either- what's the point? I'd be going to bed straight afterwards.
Cheers,
Renato

Renato, give the shower shave a try!

The hot water and steam opens the pores for a great shave. You can buy anti-steam/fog mirrors just for this purpose. (In barber shops, they use hot towels on the face before a shave to open pores and soften the beard.) Women shave their legs in the shower for just this reason.

[Renato]

Renato, give the shower shave a try!

The hot water and steam opens the pores for a great shave. You can buy anti-steam/fog mirrors just for this purpose. (In barber shops, they use hot towels on the face before a shave to open pores and soften the beard.) Women shave their legs in the shower for just this reason.

I thought women shaved in the shower just so they could leave disposable razors hanging round the bottom of my shower.

Seriously though, it doesn't fit in with my routine - shower at night, shave in the morning.
And it still seems weird to me - nude shaving!
Cheers,
Renato

[lessthanthree]

The investment in time and money - namely going to the kitchen and getting a couple of drops of whatever oil you are cooking with - is ultra-minuscule.

My original post relates to how to improve the performance of soaps and creams that one may have which are not performing well with one's equipment. Why throw them out and buy better ones, if they can be made to perform?
Regards,
Renato

Sorry Renato - I've had a look at my post and the tone of it definitely seems a bit off! I think that one of the joys of shaving is in playing around with the different variables to see what works best and have a little fun in the process. You're quite right that trying pre-shave oils may help to knock certain soaps/creams into place, and olive oil (amongst others) has its following, but I personally look to other variables: face lathering instead of bowl, for example, or the amount of water or load on the brush.

I'm glad to hear that you've got the Arko working. Despite the popularity it's one I've yet to get my hands on!

[Renato]

Sorry Renato - I've had a look at my post and the tone of it definitely seems a bit off! I think that one of the joys of shaving is in playing around with the different variables to see what works best and have a little fun in the process. You're quite right that trying pre-shave oils may help to knock certain soaps/creams into place, and olive oil (amongst others) has its following, but I personally look to other variables: face lathering instead of bowl, for example, or the amount of water or load on the brush.

I'm glad to hear that you've got the Arko working. Despite the popularity it's one I've yet to get my hands on!

Yes, I don't really follow the bowl lathering business except where one has an actual puck of soap in a bowl. I'm always surprised at B&B where some people seem to be bowl lathering with creams and soap sticks, where face lathering seems the extremely simple and effective way to go to me.

Interesting that you mention loading a brush. Yesterday I posted on B&B about not being able to get good lather out of a L'Occitane Cade soap puck, compared to a Tabac or Truefitt &Hill soap puck. The response from one chap was to only wet half the brush. I followed his advice, and added to it by changing from badger to boar, and I got excellent lather out of the previously annoying puck.

You are right, what makes shaving fun is the variables. This in turn means having to keep some variables constant in order to check the effect of others. One variable I like to keep constant is shaving cream when I test a new razor or razor/blade combination, and for convenience I settled on Trumpers shaving cream as the constant in such evaluations. Much to my astonishment, my new and most expensive razor, a Weber DLC, performed in a very sub-average fashion with Trumpers, but worked much better with Cade soap. I didn't think such a thing was possible, but that razor with a Gillette Super Thin blade (another constant) wouldn't shave hair off my face properly. Instead it needed a very sharp Feather blade and no Trumpers to deliver a mild shave.
Cheers,
Renato

[Renato]

Update 2.

My new Weber DLC razor is the mildest of razors I've come across. It is so mild that it wouldn't cut whiskers properly when I used a Gillette Super Thin blade and my most slippery cream, Trumpers. Nor did it do a good job with an Astra SP or Feather blade when used with the Trumper's shaving cream. But using it with the supposedly unforgiving and super sharp Feather blade, and my worst performing shave cream - the Arko Regular which had given me lots of nicks (as described in my Original Post above) - it gave me a great close shave. I can't imagine anything performing more mildly than this. It feels more like a cartridge razor than a DE razor to me.

It should be noted that the descriptions given by others at Blade & Badger about the performance and aggression of the Weber DLC are totally different from how I describe mine. I strongly suspect that my one from the current batch is different from theirs. The B&B blade gap table state the Weber DLC has a blade gap of 24 thousandths of an inch, whereas I measure mine to be a milder 22 thousandths of an inch.

Anyone wanting a mild razor might want to consider getting a Weber DLC from the current production being sold. Who knows if it will still be as mild after the next production run?
Regards,
Renato

P.S. It occurs to me that my Lord 122 (aka L5) Tech head type razor was also a poor performer with Trumpers shaving cream, in a very similar fashion to the Weber - but I haven't explored it the way I have the Weber DLC yet. Perhaps that makes it the mildest of the budget razors.

[nathan.k]

If the oil is working out well for you, that's cool, but you should maybe also consider upgrading your razor (depending on your budget of course). I also started out with a lower-end razor, and I found the difference between most of these (Weishi, Lord, etc) and a slightly better razor is night and day. You can often find the Edwin Jagger DE89 razor, as well as several models of Merkur, for >$30 shipped. Either of these options should give you a superior experience (if not, you can recoup most of your investment by selling it on one of the shaving forums).

Arko is a good choice for a shaving soap, BTW. No fancy frills, just a good solid tallow-based soap!

The NO PRESSURE is a given for Double Edge shaving - but I guarantee you my Weishi 2003M will deliver me six good nicks no matter how light I'm doing it. But you do have to apply some pressure for cartridge shaving.

Blades do certainly vary. Finding the right one (or the most forgiving one) for a particular razor is no easy task though. I've got 7 O'clock Blue, but have never seen the Black.
Cheers,
Renato

[Renato]

If the oil is working out well for you, that's cool, but you should maybe also consider upgrading your razor (depending on your budget of course). I also started out with a lower-end razor, and I found the difference between most of these (Weishi, Lord, etc) and a slightly better razor is night and day. You can often find the Edwin Jagger DE89 razor, as well as several models of Merkur, for >$30 shipped. Either of these options should give you a superior experience (if not, you can recoup most of your investment by selling it on one of the shaving forums).

Arko is a good choice for a shaving soap, BTW. No fancy frills, just a good solid tallow-based soap!

Upgrading razors!

I already have the Merkur 25C, 333C and 45 and the Weber DLC, and a Merkur 37C on the way. The only way I'd get to spend more on them is by going for Merkur Adjustables, or the high end Feather razor. But I can't see the point of going to adjustables, as I'd mainly be leaving them on the lowest settings.

Tallow soaps have been a bit of a let down for me so far - I was expecting more from them than what I got.
Cheers,
Renato

[Kyujin]

I also experience my Weber (an ARC in my case) as really mild, but only in terms of "no razor burn at all". With an Astra or Feather blade I get the closest shave ever, really long lasting BBS without any irritation, even on my neck. I have yet to reproduce these results with any other razor, including my recent favourite, the Mergress. Right now, the ARC would be the one razor I would keep.

Shaving oil, on the other hand, has never done anything for me. As the whole idea of shaving soap is to hydrate, swell and thus soften the stubble, it seems odd to me that oil should help (but the effect may be better lubrication for soaps lacking in that aspect.)

[Renato]

I also experience my Weber (an ARC in my case) as really mild, but only in terms of "no razor burn at all". With an Astra or Feather blade I get the closest shave ever, really long lasting BBS without any irritation, even on my neck. I have yet to reproduce these results with any other razor, including my recent favourite, the Mergress. Right now, the ARC would be the one razor I would keep.

Shaving oil, on the other hand, has never done anything for me. As the whole idea of shaving soap is to hydrate, swell and thus soften the stubble, it seems odd to me that oil should help (but the effect may be better lubrication for soaps lacking in that aspect.)

It's interesting that the two guys who post on Basenotes share the same view that the Weber is really mild (I was starting to think it was just my DLC from this current batch). Over at B&B people are describing their Webers as being as aggressive (if not more aggressive) as the Merkur 34C and Jagger DE89. This is very puzzling to me, as plainly my Weber is milder than a Gillette Tech - and that is a very nice mild razor.

You're right about no irritation - I run an alum block over shaved skin, and there are few if any stings from invisible nicks, of the type I get from other razors.

As for the oil, it's a few drops added after the face has been wetted. And there are shaving oils where they are the only thing used for shaving (e.g King of Shaves), as opposed to pre-shave oils. And it certainly works for soap/ creams that are less than fully effective relative to others.
Cheers,
Renato

[Ken_Russell]

Sorry to bump this thread in so late, after so many interesting and insightful opinions have already been voiced, but I could not help noticing a similar beneficial effect while using a generic (super-market retailed) pre-shave oil by the rather affordable brand Somersets.

While I am in no position to judge how good pre-shave oil manufacturer is, I did notice a quite significant improvement, not just in terms of diminishing the probability of lesions, cuts, irritations or other types of skin discomforts, either caused by the act of shaving itself and/or by other shaving products, the overall aspect of my skin, its moisturisation, its uniformity, elasticity did also improve over time.

[Renato]

Sorry to bump this thread in so late, after so many interesting and insightful opinions have already been voiced, but I could not help noticing a similar beneficial effect while using a generic (super-market retailed) pre-shave oil by the rather affordable brand Somersets.

While I am in no position to judge how good pre-shave oil manufacturer is, I did notice a quite significant improvement, not just in terms of diminishing the probability of lesions, cuts, irritations or other types of skin discomforts, either caused by the act of shaving itself and/or by other shaving products, the overall aspect of my skin, its moisturisation, its uniformity, elasticity did also improve over time.

Is that the Somersets "Original Shaving Oil", which I bought the other day but haven't tried yet - or do they have a specific pre-shave oil as well?
What you describe though is pretty similar to my experience with oil and the poorer performing (on me) creams that I've tried.

The Somersets face scrub is interesting, being the most lathery one I've come across, I'm almost tempted to try shave with it.
Cheers,
Renato

[Ken_Russell]

It is the Somersets "Original Shaving Oil" indeed, I never found so far any specific pre-shave oil, but though Somersets shave oil is supposed to be used during shaving rather than before, speaking from my experience, it can also be used as pre-shave oil.

[Renato]

It is the Somersets "Original Shaving Oil" indeed, I never found so far any specific pre-shave oil, but though Somersets shave oil is supposed to be used during shaving rather than before, speaking from my experience, it can also be used as pre-shave oil.

Yes, it's supposed to be used straight - without soap. So if you use it in conjunction with soap, well then as you are using two things that are meant to be good by themselves, you'd expect to get something better than using the two alone, as you have now found out.

It'll be interesting to see when I get around to it, whether the Somersets improves my troublesome Arko cream any better than the straight olive oil does. Theoretically it should, but perhaps there is certain level of improvement an oil can get to, and then go no further.

I also own Jack Black Beard Lube, which is a latherless gel that works really well. One chap at B&B was adamant that if one uses a tiny amount (i.e. a lot less than for a full shave) as a pre-shave, it too accentuates the properties of any shaving soap or cream that is put over it.

I have a lot of experiments to do, and at one a day, it is taking me a long time to get through them.
Regards,
Renato

[fragranceman88]

Just adding my 2 cents....I used to nick myself all ,the time until I started shaving in the shower. So the skin and hairs soften

[Renato]

Just adding my 2 cents....I used to nick myself all ,the time until I started shaving in the shower. So the skin and hairs soften

Thanks. As I said to Primrose above, I just can't get my head around "nude" shaving - do you have some kind of fog-free mirror, or do you do it by feel alone (which I know I can't do)?
Cheers,
Renato

[lessthanthree]

Cheers,
Renato

Let me know how you get on with that Weber. I'm looking to add to my meagre collection at some point and I'm hearing very positive things about both the ARC and the DLC.

[Beranium Chotato]

I have a cavernous dimple in my chin that I have to go over about 40x in order to make sure there's not a bit of whisker poking out. When I was younger, I would nick myself constantly in this area. I got so tired of it that I started to shave in the shower with my face under constant running water. All I use otherwise is soap and a Mach3. I have not nicked myself for at least 20 years.

Once you learn to shave without looking in a mirror, you can also go much faster.

[Renato]

Let me know how you get on with that Weber. I'm looking to add to my meagre collection at some point and I'm hearing very positive things about both the ARC and the DLC.

Well, you know my views - for me it's a very mild razor when coupled with the sharpest of blades. Clearly this makes it handy for mild shaves, or for a second shave on the day, or for people who use multiple razors and like a mild one on second and third passes. Also, it seems to be very handy with the poorer performing soaps, lather and creams, while not being much good with what I would otherwise have considered to have been my best cream.

But others have very different views, check out the last Weber Lovers chorus at Blade & Badger,
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...r-Lovers-Unite!
where I show up with a little bit of discord.
Cheers,
Renato

P.S. On the other hand, if you hunt around Ebay for around $15 each you can get new razors like the Lord 1822LP (with Merkur type head aka L6), Feather Popular (got mine from Singapore), Wilkinson Sword Classic ($10) and a second hand Gillette Tech (mine is from 1956) - all of which I really like using too - and have change left over compared to buying a Weber.

[Renato]

All I use otherwise is soap and a Mach3. I have not nicked myself for at least 20 years.

Once you learn to shave without looking in a mirror, you can also go much faster.

I would classify you as a very advanced shaver, way beyond my league.
Cheers,
Renato

[Beranium Chotato]

Renato,

That's very flattering, but it's not that hard. It's like the force. It's already in you. You just have to give yourself over to it.

Try this: place your index and middle finger of one hand to the place where you think your sideburn ends. Then do the same with the other hand. If you placed your fingers incorrectly (or you sideburns are uneven), you can feel the lack of symmetry. Using the bone structure of your face as a map, it's easy to adjust the placement of both until they are perfectly even.

That is essentially the skill that you use when shaving without a mirror.

[Renato]

Renato,

That's very flattering, but it's not that hard. It's like the force. It's already in you. You just have to give yourself over to it.

Try this: place your index and middle finger of one hand to the place where you think your sideburn ends. Then do the same with the other hand. If you placed your fingers incorrectly (or you sideburns are uneven), you can feel the lack of symmetry. Using the bone structure of your face as a map, it's easy to adjust the placement of both until they are perfectly even.

That is essentially the skill that you use when shaving without a mirror.

Thanks for the explanation.
Those parts around sideburns I could do. But the area above and below the lips I would never attempt without a mirror - it's hard even with a mirror!
Cheers,
Renato

[Kyujin]

Well, with a cartridge razor it isn't too difficult, I could shave blindfolded with a Mach 3. That is obviously the greatest advantage of cartridge razors: They bypass many of the technical challenges and the learning curve in traditional wetshaving. The result is good enough for many, and the first experiments of the curious with DE-razors may go wrong even with proper guidance. Given the highly individual nature of the best soap / blade / razor combination(s) and the huge variety to chose from, it isn't so very astonishing that someone would chose to stay with cartridges instead of doing the research often necessary to obtain a really satisfying result with a DE-razor or a straight. I guess one has to elevate wetshaving to a hobby at least to a certain degree to really enjoy it.

[Murphy2012]

I use shave oil, not the pre shave oil, the stuff that you are meant to use for a shave straight away. I put this on before working up a good lather with a quality shave soap and then use a DE with derby blades. I've not nicked myself for ages. I switched from using a cartridge razor as I thought it was about time I actually learnt to shave. All the cartridge systems do is give the illusion that one can shave. It's a bit like playing Mario Kart and saying you can drive. No wonder people are saying rather silly things like they can shave without a mirror, its shaving with auto pilot for god's sake. Nevertheless and in spite of something as cumbersome as a mirror! DE's are better for a number of reasons but from a personal perspective I no longer suffer from razor burn or ingrown hairs anymore. Get yourself a Parker 99R for 19 quid and learn to shave like man.

[Renato]

I use shave oil, not the pre shave oil, the stuff that you are meant to use for a shave straight away. I put this on before working up a good lather with a quality shave soap and then use a DE with derby blades. I've not nicked myself for ages. I switched from using a cartridge razor as I thought it was about time I actually learnt to shave. All the cartridge systems do is give the illusion that one can shave. It's a bit like playing Mario Kart and saying you can drive. No wonder people are saying rather silly things like they can shave without a mirror, its shaving with auto pilot for god's sake. Nevertheless and in spite of something as cumbersome as a mirror! DE's are better for a number of reasons but from a personal perspective I no longer suffer from razor burn or ingrown hairs anymore. Get yourself a Parker 99R for 19 quid and learn to shave like man.

Did you try using the shave oil with cartridge razors as well as with DE?

Interesting that you like the Derby blades - at B&B they're often rubbished, but just as often some people say they really like them.

Have you tried the Derby shave stick? Fantastic lather, great shave from it, but the absolute worst scent in a shave soap I've ever come across.

While I'm mainly using DE, I still think various cartridge razors have a lot to offer, and may well be the most suitable razor type for some people. Down here in Australia there is one store currently selling a SuperMax 3-blade cartridge razor, with 11 cartridges for $2. Which is quite competitive with DE blades.

I'm still nicking myself while I keep testing new soaps and creams, as it's pointless testing them with pre-shave oil in the first instance. Today, it was E-shave soap that gave me the nicks, using two relatively mild DE razors that rarely deliver nicks. Interestingly, when I did read the advertising for the E-shave soap, it did in fact say to use pre-shave oil with it.
Regards,
Renato

[Murphy2012]

I have, the problem I have with cartridge systems is that they still cause irritation because they pull the skin as they shave.
I think the pre-shave oil is a bit of rip off, i think you can get a quality nickless shave by using olive oil or simple shave oil: like king of shaves or 4men which you can get for a quid. The whole point is that it creates an extra barrier on the skin which stops the razor from stripping the skin of moisture. it also stops nicks when making a bad pass (a bad pass is when you put the razor on the flesh where there is no shaving foam).
The biggest mistake people make when shaving is that they use too much pressure. you should hear a good shave not feel it. aim to remove hair, not skin. make a couple of passes stretching the skin as you shave but using as little pressure from the blade as possible. Have a bath before hand and massage the oil into your beard and leave it there whilst you bathe (most of the shave oils i use have menthol in them, so the hotter you get in the bath the more refreshing it feels on your skin, lovely stuff). Lather up using a shave brush and shaving cream, spending at least 3 minutes getting a good coating lifting the bristles and then let it rip with cartridge or DE!
hope this helps
M

[Renato]

Lather up using a shave brush and shaving cream, spending at least 3 minutes getting a good coating lifting the bristles and then let it rip with cartridge or DE!
hope this helps
M

Good points.

I tend to just do 2 minutes with the lather - but I always make thick pasty lathers. Some of the lathers they post at B&B look way too airy for me. I've noticed that with some soap pucks, badger brushes are a bit of a waste of time trying to get thick lather. Fortunately, boar brushes do a better job on those harder soaps. Brush type doesn't matter with creams though.

It's tricky when switching between cartridge and DE. Most DE razors are best without pressure (with the exception of my Weber DLC and Big Roc razors), but cartridges require some pressure. It's easy to forget the no-pressure when switching back to DE.
Regards,
Renato

[Murphy2012]

I agree I have a selection of brushes for the simple reason that different water reacts differently with the soap I am using and different brushes are required to get a decent lather. I have an expensive badger brush that is next to useless where I live as the water is so hard it might as well be sheer gravel. On the other hand my cheap brush, which is tougher, gets a much better lather every time, go figure!
On another note, ever since I have switched to DE I have had better skin and I know this sounds corny but I have a sense of well-being to boot. I attribute this to the almost meditative state one moves into when one engages in a proper wet shave using a DE. You have to concentrate and take some time caring for yourself, rather than rushing through the consumerist foam blitz that passes for a shave these days.
I am a teacher so I am usually very stressed out at the end of the day. The first thing I do when I walk through the door is to take the time to have a proper shave in the afternoon rather than in the morning as it leaves me feeling refreshed, de-stressed and ready tackle the marking and lesson planning I have to face for the remainder of the evening, not to mention the important aroma-therapeutic effects of a calming aftershave.Hey this might actually be a good thread, which aftershave has the most calming effect on you?

[Renato]

I agree I have a selection of brushes for the simple reason that different water reacts differently with the soap I am using and different brushes are required to get a decent lather. I have an expensive badger brush that is next to useless where I live as the water is so hard it might as well be sheer gravel. On the other hand my cheap brush, which is tougher, gets a much better lather every time, go figure!
On another note, ever since I have switched to DE I have had better skin and I know this sounds corny but I have a sense of well-being to boot. I attribute this to the almost meditative state one moves into when one engages in a proper wet shave using a DE. You have to concentrate and take some time caring for yourself, rather than rushing through the consumerist foam blitz that passes for a shave these days.
I am a teacher so I am usually very stressed out at the end of the day. The first thing I do when I walk through the door is to take the time to have a proper shave in the afternoon rather than in the morning as it leaves me feeling refreshed, de-stressed and ready tackle the marking and lesson planning I have to face for the remainder of the evening, not to mention the important aroma-therapeutic effects of a calming aftershave.Hey this might actually be a good thread, which aftershave has the most calming effect on you?

Interesting about the hard water. I've been to places where it took half a bottle of shampoo to get the same amount of foam as normally would take a little bit in the palm of my hand. Fortunately, I don't have that issue where I live so can only ponder the effect on various have creams. But I do tend to use boar brushes more than badger brushes - in part because they work better with some soaps, and in part because one can give one's face a bit of a pummeling massage in the process.

As to effect of shaving on skin, it's interesting when one meets women one only sees occasionally - as they are more observant of skin - and get their unsolicited comments. As happened yesterday, when one friend commented on how good my face skin was suddenly looking (since I restarted DE shaving again some months back).

After decades of using aftershave balms to stop flaky skin, my favourite being Rexona for Men - because it didn't leave me with a glossy wet look - I've actually found that I seem to be getting great results just by applying the Alum block after shaving, and not washing it off. Why I don't get flaky skin from using the Alum is a mystery to me.

Everyone should have an alum block. It's great for stopping blood from nicks of course. But more importantly, it tells you how well your razor and blade are working. One may well have no visible nicks, but the alum block shows up the invisible ones. With some razor and blade combinations, one feels lots of tiny stings from the Alum block, with other combinations, one feels hardly any stings. I bought six 70 gram Ali Biyikli blocks from Ebay in Turkey for a total of $15, including postage.

What subjects do you teach?
Cheers,
Renato

[Murphy2012]

Hi Renato, I think my technique definitely needs work as no matter how lightly I shave my alum block always gives me a telling off. I tend to use an Alum block then a splash of pinaud, after that I use a balm. What do you think of Feather blades? are they any good? do you think that its possible for a blade to be too sharp?
I teach philosophy. Not a lot of money in it, but its an enriching subject, might explain why I've gone from expensive cartridge systems to the more economical DE.

[Renato]

Hi Renato, I think my technique definitely needs work as no matter how lightly I shave my alum block always gives me a telling off. I tend to use an Alum block then a splash of pinaud, after that I use a balm. What do you think of Feather blades? are they any good? do you think that its possible for a blade to be too sharp?
I teach philosophy. Not a lot of money in it, but its an enriching subject, might explain why I've gone from expensive cartridge systems to the more economical DE.

Well, that means you can be philosophical about those nicks and stings! Definitely an enriching subject, but I often wind up crossing swords with a friend who's a very experienced amateur at things to do with philosophy.

I have no experience with the Parker 99, but I do have experience with plenty of razors now, and can assure you that if you are like me it probably won't be your technique causing you those multitude of stings with the alum. I use the same technique with my mild Weber DLC, Gillette Tech, Gillette Slim Twist and get next to no stings with them. With my Merkur 33C, Lord L6, Gillette SuperSpeed I'll always get more of those stings, and the occasional real nick. And I get even more stings and nicks with some of my cheap Chinese razors, especially their Twist To Open ones.

Yes, a blade can be too sharp. If I put a Feather or Astra SP I can expect more stings and more scraping - an area that goes red with fine pimples (as opposed to just red razorburn). I am finding that I get better results in terms of stings and nicks with regular Gillette Super Thin Stainless Steel and SuperMax Stainless steel, than using Feather and Astra SP in my Gillette Tech, Gillette Slim Twist, Merkur 33C, Lord L6, Gillette SuperSpeed and Feather Popular razors.

In my Weber DLC, Gillette Sterling (current $7 model from India) and Big Roc (nice $5 Chinese razor), they just will not shave close with my stainless steel blades, and must have Feather and Astra SP blades to work properly. I get no stings with the Weber DLC.

The other factor is how long one uses the blade. When I used to DE shave decades ago, before recommencing recently, I'd always hate a new blade in my Gillette Super Adjustable. After four days of nicks, it would settle down and be fine for the next three weeks. I'm still not fond of a new blade for the first shave but now am okay from the second shave onwards (probably due to better technique and better soap and creams). I was quite amazed to find that at B&B some people use a blade once, then throw it out, some use it two times, some four times, some 10 or 12 times, and there is a minority who use one for a month. Blade usage has to have an effect on number of stings.

Anyhow, it's early days yet - I still have about 20 or 30 brands of blades to try out in about 12 primary razors - and I have 14 blades currently in use, and I still haven't thrown one out.
Cheers,
Renato

[walkdogg]

I have a small tube of an oil that claims to allow you to shave with water alone if you apply it to the blades of the razor you shave with prior to shaving. Than just use water or water and hand soap to shave your way to happiness.



Seems to work well. It's hard to trust it the first time though!!

[Renato]

I have a small tube of an oil that claims to allow you to shave with water alone if you apply it to the blades of the razor you shave with prior to shaving. Than just use water or water and hand soap to shave your way to happiness.


Seems to work well. It's hard to trust it the first time though!!

I have the Somerset's one which claims to be the original and the best. And I have the King of Shaves one to. They both cost between 7 and 8 dollars down here for tiny bottles.

Do they work - yes (well, I used more than three drops though).
Did I enjoy using them - not much.
Is it easy to miss some part of your face while shaving - yes.

I haven't used them as a pre-shave oil yet, but I suspect they'd be pretty good
Regards,
Renato