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  1. #1

    Default IFRA Bootlicking

    Howdy folks.

    So here I was, minding my own business, doing my usual rounds on the Basenotes and Fragrantica websites... And behold! A new abomination is being born:

    http://www.fragrantica.com/news/L-Ea...ogne-6160.html

    Read this article and weep, dear friends. We are now bearing witness to a new generation of bureaucratic bootlicking! The IFRA is getting its collectivist posterior kissed by Phaedon, who according to this report, desires to "please all existing recommendations of IFRA to the maximum level."

    Depressing. The night is dark and full of terrors.

  2. #2
    hednic's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    The commentary is sad granted, but I happen to own the L'Eau De Phaedon as well as Guillaume's newest L`Eau de Concombre and I think they're very nice scents even though they might have had to adhere to the new guidelines.
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals don't warrant or deserve other individuals' acknowledgement or respect.

  3. #3

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by hednic View Post
    The commentary is sad granted, but I happen to own the L'Eau De Phaedon as well as Guillaume's newest L`Eau de Concombre and I think they're very nice scents even though they might have had to adhere to the new guidelines.
    Oh I'm sure they are nice and have their uses. That's not my issue. I just don't like the self-flagellating compliance to these ridiculous regulations.

  4. #4
    Dependent Akahina's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    "Like the smell of the first rain drops on a sandy beach. Rounded and fresh..."

    Can I throw up now?...

    Glad I got a lot of things before.
    Some Favorites
    1. Amouage Epic man
    2. Dior Leather Oud
    3. Perris Monte Carlo Oud Imperial Black
    4. Le Labo Patchouli 24
    5. Amouage Opus VII
    6. Byredo Bullion
    7. Norma Kamali Incense


    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

  5. #5
    hednic's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoXerxes View Post
    That's not my issue. I just don't like the self-flagellating compliance to these ridiculous regulations.
    I think most everyone would agree with you, including myself but unfortunately down the road I only see perfumers becoming more compliant in the future. Keep hunting for those vintage gems!
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals don't warrant or deserve other individuals' acknowledgement or respect.

  6. #6

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    BOO!!
    I want to spray poison on me and radiate lethal fumes!!!!
    Top 5:

    1. Mona di Orio Vanille
    2. Creed Aventus
    3.Dior Fahrenheit
    4.Dolce & Gabbana The One
    5. Thierry Mugelar A*Men Pure Malt

    currently sampling: Amouge, Xerjoff, Kilian, Frapin

    rocking the Dolce & Gabbana anagram belt, Dolce & Gabbana anagram tie.

  7. #7
    Dependent
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    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Bespoke fragrances are not subject to IFRA regulations. So if it bothers you that much, getting a bespoke fragrance is one way to get around it
    Seasonal rotation:

    Original Santal
    Apple Brandy
    Tuscan Leather
    Silver Mountain Water
    Lyric Man

  8. #8

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by Preston H View Post
    Bespoke fragrances are not subject to IFRA regulations. So if it bothers you that much, getting a bespoke fragrance is one way to get around it
    Or you make an IFRA non-compliant scent, but put warnings on it like on bug spray: DO NOT SPRAY DIRECTLY ON SKIN. Or: DO NOT SPRAY EXCEPT IN WELL VENTILATED ROOMS. Or just: DO NOT SPRAY. FOR DISPLAY ONLY.

    I could actually imagine a niche line pulling that off.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Talented perfumers can still create good smelling fragrances even with one arm tied behind their backs by IFRA restrictions. But when they fail to do so they can always put the blame on IFRA. Win-win situation, huh? I also believe fragrance aficionados are resourceful enough to get their hands on great fragrances even with IFRA's regulation.

  10. #10

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    If you don't already have more than you'll be able to use in a few lifetimes, you're not a real Basenoter anyway! LOL.

  11. #11

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by Akahina View Post
    "Like the smell of the first rain drops on a sandy beach. Rounded and fresh..."

    Can I throw up now?...

    Glad I got a lot of things before.
    Ditto.

    "But this is a future quite unlike hell."
    It sounds like HELL to me!
    "You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

    "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical...It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government." - Thomas Jefferson

  12. #12

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    If you don't already have more than you'll be able to use in a few lifetimes, you're not a real Basenoter anyway! LOL.
    right!
    "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" John Lydon

  13. #13

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by gtsb View Post
    Or you make an IFRA non-compliant scent, but put warnings on it like on bug spray: DO NOT SPRAY DIRECTLY ON SKIN.

    I could actually imagine a niche line pulling that off.
    This is actually what's in the works right now.

  14. #14

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    I am highly allergic to IFRA regulations. Must sue for damages to my aesthetic sensibility.

    btw.: You are invited to join my newly founded religion called Jickyism, whose core rituals include the massive application of bergamot, lavender, oakmoss and numerous other oils to the skin. Constitutionally protected against IFRA norms in the EU, USA and many other democracies.
    Blessed be thy holy grail! All it requires is daily application of the "holy water," regular study of the scriptures (basenotes), critical engagement with the epistles of St. Luca of Turin and a pilgrimage to the grave of Roudnitska.



    sent from a mobile device - please excuse any smelling mistakes
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  15. #15

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    If you don't already have more than you'll be able to use in a few lifetimes, you're not a real Basenoter anyway! LOL.
    Working on this as we speak .

  16. #16
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoXerxes View Post
    ......A new abomination is being born:....
    The average perfume buyers love this idea. Just shows how squirrelly people have become. Pretty soon Whole Foods will be a major player in perfumes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post
    Talented perfumers can still create good smelling fragrances even with one arm tied behind their backs by IFRA restrictions.....
    Hmm. Lotsa luck.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    I am highly allergic to IFRA regulations. Must sue for damages to my aesthetic sensibility.

    btw.: You are invited to join my newly founded religion called Jickyism, whose core rituals include the massive application of bergamot, lavender, oakmoss and numerous other oils to the skin. Constitutionally protected against IFRA norms in the EU, USA and many other democracies.
    Blessed be thy holy grail! All it requires is daily application of the "holy water," regular study of the scriptures (basenotes), critical engagement with the epistles of St. Luca of Turin and a pilgrimage to the grave of Roudnitska.

    sent from a mobile device - please excuse any smelling mistakes
    Excellent. Thanks for the great post the_good_life. The place needs more of that.
    Last edited by pluran; 5th December 2014 at 10:25 AM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    False advertising. There's no such thing as Non-Allergenic. Someone can be allergic to anything.

  18. #18

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Lots of new restrictions on Tonka and citrus notes are coming into force and I believe the restrictions on Oakmoss will soon next year be a total ban. Though the IFRA I believe though may be wrong only have power on those that subscribe to comply to it's restrictions as the laws in different countries can vary.

    So grab up those vintage scents of the past as the scents of the future are going to be watered down. Also I have noticed that white musk is been used more and more in fragrances that to seems to cheapen the fragrance. Though I have no idea if it's related to other-notes becoming restricted but I'm suspicious.

  19. #19

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hunter View Post
    Lots of new restrictions on Tonka and citrus notes are coming into force and I believe the restrictions on Oakmoss will soon next year be a total ban.
    Tonka and citrus? Really?! OMG! Where can I read about this?

  20. #20
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    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hunter View Post
    Lots of new restrictions on Tonka and citrus notes are coming into force and I believe the restrictions on Oakmoss will soon next year be a total ban. Though the IFRA I believe though may be wrong only have power on those that subscribe to comply to it's restrictions as the laws in different countries can vary.

    So grab up those vintage scents of the past as the scents of the future are going to be watered down. Also I have noticed that white musk is been used more and more in fragrances that to seems to cheapen the fragrance. Though I have no idea if it's related to other-notes becoming restricted but I'm suspicious.
    So lets presume that Oakmoss vanishes - what would be the recommendation as to the best scent to get hold of now before it fades into extinction?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    The commentary is sickening, and the line not much better (at least those I've sniffed).
    Current Top Favorites:
    1) Portrait of a Lady original formula (EdP Frédéric Malle)
    2) Giorgio for Men vintage/V.I.P. for Men (Giorgio Beverly Hills)
    3) Dia Man vintage edt (Amouage)
    4)
    Anat Fritz Original Formula and Classical (Anat Fritz) - tie
    4) Lalfeorosa (O'driù) - tie

    6)
    Les Nombres d'Or Vetyver (Mona di Orio)
    7) Captain vintage (Molyneux)
    8) Tzora (Anat Fritz)
    9) Javanese Patchouli (Zegna) - tie
    9) Monsieur de Givenchy vintage (Givenchy) - tie
    9) Coeur de Vetiver Sacré (L'Artisan) - tie
    9) X for Men (Clive Christian) - tie
    9) Patou pour Homme Privé (Jean Patou) - tie
    9) Oud Shamash (The Different Company) - tie

  22. #22

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoXerxes View Post
    Tonka and citrus? Really?! OMG! Where can I read about this?
    Our very own basenoter Cytherian has made a very good easy to read thread on Fragrantica about this. As the list/regulations from the IFRA is a complicated read this thread is a godsend. So thanks Cytherian!

    http://www.fragrantica.com/board/vie....php?id=106409

  23. #23

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by yarn View Post
    So lets presume that Oakmoss vanishes - what would be the recommendation as to the best scent to get hold of now before it fades into extinction?
    Basically all Fougeres that you like as Oakmoss is the main player within these type of scents. I think in the future buying some oakmoss extract and a atomizer may be the way to go. You can decant a fragrance into the atomizer then experiment by adding the oakmoss and leaving the scent for while to see if you can enhance the fragrance. All experimental of course.

  24. #24

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by yarn View Post
    So lets presume that Oakmoss vanishes - what would be the recommendation as to the best scent to get hold of now before it fades into extinction?
    Things like Diaghilev and Puredistance M.

  25. #25
    Basenotes Junkie james1051's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoXerxes View Post
    The IFRA is getting its collectivist posterior kissed by Phaedon, who according to this report, desires to "please all existing recommendations of IFRA to the maximum level.".
    I for one welcome our new insect overlords!

  26. #26
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    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    These IFRA regs are getting out of hand. I don't understand how they need to regulate citrus fragrances, when I can go into any store and pick up a jar of marmalade.

    Europe is economically fucked to say the least, and this is another example dying by their own hands.

  27. #27

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    The only way to solve the problem is, don't spend your money on it.
    Weak, inferior, reformulated for the worse,..... then move on.

    We buy because we enjoy it. If they don't want to make something we enjoy, then spend your money elsewhere.

    If you go ahead and pay more, and settle for something 2nd best then it will never correct itself.

  28. #28

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hunter View Post
    Lots of new restrictions on Tonka and citrus notes are coming into force
    So in 10 years, veteran BNers will be scouring Ebay and paying $350 (tree fiddy) for "vintage" bottles of that 2010s era "powerhouse/masterpiece" Versace Eros???
    Daytime
    Dior Homme Sport (2012)
    YSL L'Homme
    Issey Miyake L'Eau D'Issey pour Homme
    Bentley For Men Intense
    Dior Fahrenheit


    Nighttime

    Dior Homme Intense
    YSL La Nuit de L'Homme
    VC&A Midnight in Paris
    V&R Spicebomb
    D&G The One (The Holy Grail)


    'Tis better to buy a great fragrance at a cheap price, than a cheap fragrance at a great price...

  29. #29
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Most natural ingredients (and many others) are already regulated if not completely banned, but it looks like they want to intensify it:

    www.basenotes.net/threads/370302-IFRA-Standards-Temporary-reference-thread-(original-created-24-08-2013)


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hunter View Post
    Our very own basenoter Cytherian has made a very good easy to read thread on Fragrantica about this. As the list/regulations from the IFRA is a complicated read this thread is a godsend. So thanks Cytherian!

    http://www.fragrantica.com/board/vie....php?id=106409
    Edit: Just saw this. Thanks Jack
    Last edited by pluran; 5th December 2014 at 02:31 PM.

  30. #30

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    I don't know the politics behind this, but here's what I would guess: right now, the perfume industry is self-regulating (through IFRA), and they'd like to keep it that way. In order to do so, they have to be perceived as taking action. The risk of not doing so is, government regulators will take over and take common-sense actions, like look more closely at chemicals that seem very hazardous and are used often in fragrance making: pthalates, parabens, synthetic musks, other endocrine disruptors and mutagenics, etc. And probably also make fragrance vendors reveal many of the non-disclosed (and often untested, with unknown impact on health) ingredients they're using -- fragrance is currently exempted from the Federal Fair Packaging and Labeling Act of 1973, so they're still one of the few industries who can keep ingredients secret. So the choice is, lose oakmoss and some other great fragrance ingredients because they cause allergies in some subset of people, and thus be perceived as effectively self-regulating, or lose control of the whole shootin' match, which could lead to far more serious disruption.

    I'm just guessing here, of course, but that's how it looks to me from the outside. IFRA sacrifices oakmoss to save synthetic musks, which are likely the more hazardous chemicals but more core to fragrance making.
    Last edited by Uvalde; 5th December 2014 at 05:06 PM.

  31. #31

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Thanks for sharing, since it is always better to be aware of such attitudes. Without wanting to be in any way offensive, controversial, impolite or rude, these decisions are quite unfair towards most of us here on Basenotes, both the fewer ones who make a living out of fragrance production and/or retail, but also towards the even more numerous number of Basenoters that are part of a customer base mostly spending quite regular and generous amounts on fragrances.

    The first one because they are being restricted even more and perhaps involuntarily losing more discriminating customers, the second category because they get increasingly less value, less quality for their money and/or are increasingly relying upon alternative and often overpriced sources for purchasing the fewer and fewer fragrances unaffected by these regulations (the situation might worsen for the even smaller minority simultaneously belonging to both categories).

  32. #32

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    New times are coming folks!

  33. #33

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    I think these rules affect only the frag. addicts, like us. We are just not too many in the world, so, I don't think my neighbor, or any young boy or girl will be affected, or care about it, unfortunately.

  34. #34

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    *sighs*

    Come on, everyone! Most of us have been aware of this potential reality for the last five years (at least). You think Frédéric Malle selling to Estée Lauder was coincidental?

    “If this law goes ahead I am finished, as my perfumes are all filled with these ingredients,” said Frederic Malle…. The impact on luxury perfume brands as a whole would, he said, be “like an atomic explosion and we would not have the means to rebuild ourselves.”


    As I've been saying, for the last few years, be proactive and then you won't be disappointed.

  35. #35

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Those of us who are really going to suffer (disregarding genuine newbies) won't be the proactive fragrance lovers, but the perfumistas who are simply addicted to hoarding and consumerism (for whatever personal reasons), rather than the hobby itself. Too busy chasing yet another new release, and not securing back-ups or vintage? Tough s**t!

    Collecting anything can be a very addictive hobby and fragrance collecting is no different. However, it's more important enjoying what you already have than constantly chasing after the latest new thing. That's just one addiction feeding another.

    Many of you maybe grumbling now but maybe it's time some of you sobered up. This recent development may just be the tonic you need.

  36. #36

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hunter View Post
    Our very own basenoter Cytherian has made a very good easy to read thread on Fragrantica about this. As the list/regulations from the IFRA is a complicated read this thread is a godsend. So thanks Cytherian!

    http://www.fragrantica.com/board/vie....php?id=106409
    Thank you Cytherian and thank you Jack for the information!

  37. #37
    DON'T DRINK AND DRESS

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    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    RE: IFRA Regs: "And The World Was Purified"--Westbrook Pegler c 1938
    'Those who grow too big for their pants will be exposed in the end'--anon

  38. #38

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Any chance for different European & rest-of-the-world formulations? Or is this IFRA-wide, or alternatively, too costly to do each perfume in different formulations?

  39. #39

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    There is a ray of sunshine regarding the future of fragrances and that's with independent niche house's that don't comply with the IFRA. Especially the ones outside the EU as they cannot be forced as yet to comply. Whilst reformulations/restrictions and synthetic ingredients are killing the designer scents and some niche houses, the small niche companies that are unaffected and are going from strength to strength.

    And we are seeing that now, the future imo of quality innovative fragrances belong to the small independent niche houses. And as a basenoter that's where I'm going to be looking at in the future.

  40. #40

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Any chance for different European & rest-of-the-world formulations? Or is this IFRA-wide, or alternatively, too costly to do each perfume in different formulations?

    I've never bought a full bottle of anything, preferring 10ml decants of everything I like, but now wondering if I should grab full bottles of my current faves...

  41. #41

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    I have been acquiring full bottles of the favorites that will likely be most affected by the reformulations. This is a prudent strategy, I think.

    But I also want to ask people like Roja Dove if their houses will be complying with IFRA regulations if the restrictions damage the integrity of their compositions. Hopefully they will go rogue.

  42. #42

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    I imagine all the designers will comply? My first string is all designer: D&G, YSL, CH, Chanel, Givenchy. There's only a couple of niches I'd like enough to pick up a full bottle of, but I would pick up some decants of Nio and a few other faves

  43. #43

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    I'd bet that designers are first to wet their tongues for the forthcoming boot licking fest. The IFRA helps them advertise a sort of industry standard that helps with mass market sales.

  44. #44

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebor View Post
    Those of us who are really going to suffer (disregarding genuine newbies) won't be the proactive fragrance lovers, but the perfumistas who are simply addicted to hoarding and consumerism (for whatever personal reasons), rather than the hobby itself. Too busy chasing yet another new release, and not securing back-ups or vintage? Tough s**t!

    Collecting anything can be a very addictive hobby and fragrance collecting is no different. However, it's more important enjoying what you already have than constantly chasing after the latest new thing. That's just one addiction feeding another.

    Many of you maybe grumbling now but maybe it's time some of you sobered up. This recent development may just be the tonic you need.
    This is wise advice. To look on the bright side: these IFRA regulations could be liberating, since we could just be enjoying the vintage bottles that we have. I, for one, plan to do more of this. If everything released after 2015 is disgracefully reformulated (or simply bad in the first place), I will simply enjoy what I have and go "vintage hunting."

    However there are two regrets:

    1. The people who are "born too late" for vintage will never be able to experience the art of perfumery
    2. A major source of innovation in the art of perfumery will have been hobbled. Thus, while there will still be independent perfumers who "go rogue," this makes large-scale innovation much more difficult. And while it is nice to enjoy what one has, it is depressing to think "this is as good as it gets."

  45. #45

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    I'm not sure that we should consider the regulations "liberating", no matter the brilliant means we find to offset their impact. They are monstrously intrusive bureaucratic micromanagement when considering only the best of intentions, and to find them even marginally liberating seems the height of masochism. But I know what you mean, generally. I just find these regulations offensive.

    Being an American, I don't like being coddled and spoken to in that tone of voice by foreign bureaucrats masquerading as health-conscious regulators. A mighty uncomfortable pox on all of their houses.
    Last edited by NeoXerxes; 6th December 2014 at 12:12 AM.

  46. #46

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoXerxes View Post
    I'm not sure that we should consider the regulations "liberating", no matter the brilliant means we find to offset their impact. They are monstrously intrusive bureaucratic management when considering only the best of intentions, and to find them even marginally liberating seems the height of masochism. But I know what you mean, generally. I just find these regulations offensive.

    Being an American, I don't like being coddled and spoken to in that tone of voice by foreign bureaucrats masquerading as health-conscious regulators. A mighty uncomfortable pox on all of their houses.
    I completely agree with this. The idea of letting these arrogant bureaucrats dictate their views upon the industry and its consumers is anathema to me.

  47. #47
    Dependent bigsteve's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by Akahina View Post
    "Like the smell of the first rain drops on a sandy beach. Rounded and fresh..."

    Can I throw up now?...
    Sure.... hurl away.
    ----- People laugh at me because I'm different.... I laugh at them because they're all the same -----

  48. #48

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    Quote Originally Posted by Akahina View Post
    "Like the smell of the first rain drops on a sandy beach. Rounded and fresh..."

    What the f*ck does that even mean?
    "You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

    "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical...It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government." - Thomas Jefferson

  49. #49

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    This is a very complex issue, and there's a lot of misinformation out there (oakmoss is NOT being banned, for instance, and IFRA is NOT the same as the EU). If you are seriously concerned, you would do well to read some of the blogs and posts given above.

  50. #50

    Default Re: IFRA Bootlicking

    You can only castrate a fragrance so much, it loses its identity and then nobody will want to buy it. Does IFRA want people to smell like ethyl alcohol only ? wtf
    What is happening is fragrances are being watered down to drug store quality deodorant sprays, with sanctioned aromachemicals.

    This will be problematic for luxury fragrance houses, thats for damn sure.

    Frederic Malle notable quotes:
    “If we ban citral from perfumes, of which certain elements are allergens, we should ban orange juice. It is absurd. We should not ban nature, only learn how to live with it,” said Frederic Malle, who founded the French luxury perfume company Editions de Parfums Frederic Malle.

    “If this law goes ahead I am finished, as my perfumes are all filled with these ingredients,” said Frederic Malle…. The impact on luxury perfume brands as a whole would, he said, be “like an atomic explosion and we would not have the means to rebuild ourselves.”

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