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  1. #61

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    The two are noting alike. Different scents entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    If the dry down is similar to Egoiste Platinum I could try to wear it an see if I can recognize anything..
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  2. #62

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Quote Originally Posted by rickbr View Post
    A newbie curiosity: and what about a Sandalwood base only made of different kinds of sandalwood? I mean, the mysore one, australian, amyris.
    I saw this Sandalwood blend and it reminded me of your question. Has anyone tried a similar blend?

    http://www.bathbodysupply.com/product-p/es1900.htm
    Last edited by Pears; 8th April 2014 at 03:01 AM.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Quote Originally Posted by Pears View Post
    I saw this Sandalwood blend and it reminded me of your question. Has anyone tried a similar blend?

    http://www.bathbodysupply.com/product-p/es1900.htm
    A blend of sandalwood oils of different origins including East Indian Sandalwood, West Indian Sandalwood, Indonesian Sandalwood, Australian Sandalwood and African Sandalwood. With the rising costs of Indian Sandalwood this blend is ideal for soaps and will provide better performance in the finished product with considerably stronger odor than Sandalwood alone. Many soap makers have told us that they like the odor of this blend even better than straight Indian sandalwood which is about 4 times the price!

    Blend Contains: Essential oils and other natural aromatics only, no carriers.

    ...
    Notes: This product is formulated natural oils including, but not limited to, the essential oils mentioned in the description.

    Reading their description, I strongly suspect they are using the word Ďnaturalí in its broadest sense - i.e. to mean anything that exists on the planet (the quote, including grammatical errors is theirs, the emphasis is mine).
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Well spotted, Chris. It was 3:30 in the morning so I didn't look too carefully at the details. There are some other companies that appear to sell the same blend but one of them describes it as "A 100% all essential oil blend". It could be a different blend but it lists the same Sandalwoods and in the same order. Perhaps they've just got their facts wrong and meant to imply that it contained no carrier oils.

    http://www.ozarkherbals.com/eosandalwoodblend.html
    http://nandaoils.com/sabl.html
    Last edited by Pears; 8th April 2014 at 12:24 PM.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Quote Originally Posted by Pears View Post
    Well spotted, Chris. It was 3:30 in the morning so I didn't look too carefully at the details. There are some other companies that appear to sell the same blend but one of them describes it as "A 100% all essential oil blend". It could be a different blend but it lists the same Sandalwoods and in the same order. Perhaps they've just got their facts wrong and meant to imply that it contained no carrier oils.

    http://www.ozarkherbals.com/eosandalwoodblend.html
    http://nandaoils.com/sabl.html
    It looks very much as though they are all copying the text from the same wholesalers catalogue doesnít it?

    Even if it is true that this is an all-natural blend, which as I say Iím suspicious of, this still looks like very dodgy marketing to me. After all neither African (probably Baphia nitida) nor West Indian (Amyris balsamifera) Sandalwoods are really sandalwoods at all and not a single correct botanical name is given.

    It would be interesting to see a GCMS of this oil: my bet is youíd find a lot of Sandela and Santaliff in it, but of course I donít know that without doing the test.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    I had been intending to try a blend of the various versions of the currently available Sandalwood that I have and finally got around to mixing them today. Despite having provided no time for them to mature with one another, the odor right off does in fact smooth out most of the various rough spots in the individual oils. The blend is the closest thing to the small amount of genuine Mysore that I recently decided I best resist the temptation to use, and just keep for reference. I added no aromatics of any kind, other than equal amounts of seven different versions of products sold as Sandalwood Oil, collectively from Liberty, WLA, Eden and AncientWays., and some FCO to check if there might be any solubility issues with that.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Quote Originally Posted by islearom View Post
    I had been intending to try a blend of the various versions of the currently available Sandalwood that I have and finally got around to mixing them today. Despite having provided no time for them to mature with one another, the odor right off does in fact smooth out most of the various rough spots in the individual oils. The blend is the closest thing to the small amount of genuine Mysore that I recently decided I best resist the temptation to use, and just keep for reference. I added no aromatics of any kind, other than equal amounts of seven different versions of products sold as Sandalwood Oil, collectively from Liberty, WLA, Eden and AncientWays., and some FCO to check if there might be any solubility issues with that.
    Good one - I bet that will improve further with a bit of ageing too - and it should perform well in a fine fragrance context, though you will need to test carefully for the fixative as well as olfactory impact.

    What it wonít do though is "provide better performance in the finished product with considerably stronger odor than Sandalwood aloneĒ - thatís what makes me think those commercial ones have something else in them. Nothing wrong with that either of course - a blend of both naturals and synthetics is what Iíve done myself - I just object to then pretending itís all-natural in order to fleece the uninformed.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    You could be right, Chris. Transparency is the important issue here, especially for those who only wish to use naturals. It can't be too difficult to buy the oils separately and make your own and atleast you'll then know what's in it.
    Last edited by Pears; 8th April 2014 at 03:21 PM.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Chris, I couldn't agree more with your objection to something being sold under the pretense of it being anything other than what it is said (or implied) to be. That the outcome of my blending experiment have a stronger odor than Sandalwood alone is not a concern for my purposes, but the fixative and olfactoral impact are important considerations to me, so, time will tell.
    Last edited by islearom; 8th April 2014 at 01:28 PM.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    I received samples of Sandela, Sandalore and Ebanol the other day. The Sandela seems to be the most reminiscent of Indian Sandalwood, atleast in my opinion. The Sandalore and Ebanol have a Date or Maple-like aspect, which could be useful in moderation but I'd imagine that Sandela would be more suitable to use as the main component. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. There seem to be two different compounds called Sandela. I have the former of these, below.

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1006491.html
    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1024511.html
    Last edited by Pears; 14th April 2014 at 01:26 AM.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    I recently found a way to overcome this question of adulteration when buying in small quantities which usually necessitate being situated at the end of a long chain of suppliers, middlemen. Australian grown S.album is now available direct from the distiller. This was covered a while back by another poster here in basenotes, but to those who might find this of interest and have missed that post.

    I just received some, and it is about as close to the old style (though not matured) as I have been able to find without doing blends (though, the blends it seems will be more economical). Also, Sandalwood from Indonesia is available and a small amount that I have from one source is quite nice. I have some sandalwood ordered with WLA who advises me that it is very nice. The Sri Lanka that I purchase from WLA just recently recently, went out of stock with WLA only about two or three weeks after I had received the small amout that I did. When I inquired of Chris at WLA if it might be available again soon, he advised me that Sri Lanka had now placed an embargo on the material. And then he got in the Indonesian, though I wonder for how long that will be as I understand that Indonesia had an embargo on it in the past and it was recently removed (for the time being I suppose).

    Anyway, back to the Australian grown S.album, the link is http://www.mtromance.com.au/shop/det...wood-oil-bulk/ The safest bet I guess for the purchase in small amounts directly from the distiller. Not cheap, and no substantial discounts to speak of for buying in bulk...but for those who are curious, it is worth checking out this S.album that can be obtained with the knowledge that it really, truly, is not adulterated. And then, for the sake of price, go back to using the New Caledonia E.O. in formulations.

  12. #72

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Quote Originally Posted by Pears View Post
    I received samples of Sandela, Sandalore and Ebanol the other day. The Sandela seems to be the most reminiscent of Indian Sandalwood, atleast in my opinion. The Sandalore and Ebanol have a Date or Maple-like aspect, which could be useful in moderation but I'd imagine that Sandela would be more suitable to use as the main component. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. There seem to be two different compounds called Sandela. I have the former of these, below.

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1006491.html
    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1024511.html
    To me, Sandela is a very mild scent, but I gather many people perceive it as quite strongly sandalwood. As with musks, these big sandalwood molecules are quite difficult to get a uniform response to. One more reason to use a blend of them.

    If you've not yet tried Sandalore I'd recommend it: to me it's the closest single molecule, though still not up to best natural, it's a pretty good base from which to build a substitute.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Quote Originally Posted by ariodant View Post
    curious why both recipe use bacdanol, not sandalmysore or santaliff, which are more widely available.
    Bacdanol smells great and arguably doesn't need any rounding. I'm a Bacdanol man now. However, if you want something that packs a lot of punch, you'll need to go with the other molecules.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Thought someone might be interested in this from reference files.

    Sandalwood substitute formula:

    1.timberol – 6.83% w/w
    2. bacdanol -19.7%
    3. sandal mysore core – 19.43
    4. ebanol – 5.92
    5. polysantol – 2.09
    6. sandalore -6.29
    7. javanol – 2.11
    8. osyrol-afc -1.28
    9. yara yara -0.03
    10. galaxolide 50 in bb – 0.38
    11. rose oxide – 0.08
    12. kephalis – 0.20
    13. norlimbanol – 1.29
    14. aceto ketal – 0.44
    15. camphfleur – 3.32
    16. vetikol – 0.41
    17.camek – 4.22
    18. cedranol – 1.12
    19. undecavertol 10% in dpg – 0.05
    20. dep – 10.37
    21. icch – 2.74
    22. alpha-ionol – 1.09
    23.kohinool – 0.09
    24. iso-e-super – 5.98
    25. vetikone -0.18
    26. dihydro beta ionone -2.31
    27. gamma methyl ionone – 0.67
    28. carryophyllene acetate – 1.25
    29.cinnamic alcohol – 0.11
    30.anisic acetate -0.01
    31.cuminic aldehyde – 0.11
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 24th July 2014 at 08:06 AM.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    I use a formula based on the perfumers apprentice sandalwood accord, but less javanol

    Methyl Laitone 10% - 2
    Ebanol - 100
    Sandela - 120
    Javanol - 180
    Coniferan - 10
    Bicyclononlactone - 3
    Vertofix - 25
    Iso Eugenol - 3

    I like the hint of spice that the iso eugenol adds

  16. #76

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Wow.. Can you smell anything but Javanol and a bit of Ebanol in this?

  17. #77
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Hi Jeff!

    I need to rekindle our chat... :-)

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  18. #78

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Hi Paul
    Yes let's do
    Have you had a look at our face book page pacific provender
    It's got some good videos of the work we have done over the last 2 years
    So where do we start
    Last I rember is you where interested in the sandalwood oil but also the gingers
    And by me,Roy the top notes from the skin
    Is this correct

    I do have 10 kegs of sandalwood oil for sale now and am willing to break it down to 500ml lots

    Let me know

    Jeff Allen
    Pacific provender
    www.pacificprovender.com

  19. #79

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    I could imagine a Sandalwood Bergamot blend could be quite interesting... however in my experience bergamot is one of those fragrances that is so radically different from supplier to supplier that one who had never sampled a bergamot before would never guess they were from the same plant...

  20. #80
    Basenotes Member
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    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Just out of curiousity, when a perfumer says a material is used as a modifier what exactly do they mean? I know the definition of the world modify, but in the realm of perfumery in what way does a certain material actually modify a fragrance?

  21. #81

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Hi Jeff,
    What kind of sandalwood is it?
    best,
    James Peterson

  22. #82

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    I'd be delighted if any of you gentlemen/ladies would check out my own attempt at replicating (and amplifying) sandalwood for Brooklyn Perfume Company.

  23. #83

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    I'd be glad to and would enjoy doing so, and will PM.

    In a way I'll be a bad trial... Jean Carles said "Woe to the perfumer who hates... (naming various materials)" and for commercial work he's exactly right of course. Likely from other perspectives, too. What works commercially is the standard; having a lot of personal fussiness and disliking what would be smash successes is very bad for a commercial perfumer.

    I hate all sorts of things, unfortunately (from that perspective.)

    On the flip side, I've yet to find something that to me smells good-to-excellent that I find others to not widely like.

    So, I think that my liking it would be a good sign; but if I don't, not so much if any of a sign, that's for sure.

  24. #84
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    James, Love to smell it...

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  25. #85

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Quote Originally Posted by James Peterson View Post
    I'd be delighted if any of you gentlemen/ladies would check out my own attempt at replicating (and amplifying) sandalwood for Brooklyn Perfume Company.
    I don't know where you live but if you don't mind sending a sample to the UK I would love to smell it.

  26. #86

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    As a sandalwood lover I'd be happy to give you a lot of feedback. I live in the US.

  27. #87

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Gentlemen or Ladies: Please send me your addresses via private message and I'll get the line of four (including the sandalwood) out to you. Also, I'm not quite sure how to send private messages so if someone could enlighten me, I'd be most appreciative.

  28. #88
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts


    Step 1: Click on a person's name.
    Drop down menu appears.
    Step 2: Click on Private message. Then opens a message window.
    Step 3: Send message.

    Pick up your messages here on the top of this browser page:


    PK
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  29. #89

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Thank you PK.

  30. #90

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Gentlemen/Ladies: I have an apology to make. I asked if anyone wanted samples figuring I'd just mail them out. When I realized I wasn't really set up for the time and expense of sending out these samples and I became rather inundated with requests, I suggested people contact the Twisted Lily where my perfumes are sold. The only problem is they charge 16 dollars. So, I'll make sure that for those of you who have already responded, I will mail out the samples at no charge. But, I can't continue this as it becomes quite expensive and time consuming. Anyone who read my post about free samples, please accept my apologies.
    James Peterson
    Brooklyn Perfume Company

  31. #91

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    You know my feelings from my private e-mail to you.

  32. #92

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    I'm assuming the sample you're referring to is BPC Sandalwood? I just purchased from Twisted Lily last week and I've been posting my thoughts on Basenotes to share with others. I will be getting to the Sandalwood sometime later in the week :-)
    Last edited by rynegne; 10th February 2015 at 05:41 PM.
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    Skiff (Floral Mukhallat, Tropical Fruit, Ambergris Tincture, Pacific Red Cedar) / Embers (Un-burned Incense, Campfires, Leather and Resins) / Khus (Ruh Khus, Sandalwood, Rose, Geranium)

  33. #93
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    As it happens, I am making a Sandalwood blend myself for a new Zoologist Perfume need, so it will be fun to smell yours... :-0

    Thanks James,
    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  34. #94

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    It's on the way.
    James Peterson

  35. #95

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    I just received the 4 samples, of which one was the sandalwood.

    Briefly, all 4 are considerably superior -- to my personal taste, likelihood of using or wanting to use in a formula, and benefit I think I can get in a formula from using -- to any other base or accord I have purchased, whether from a big house such as Givaudan or quality products that are retailed. (EDIT: When receiving them, I was expecting a sandalwood base, and then saw samples with other base-like names, and so started evaluating like this, though thinking right away that they were so well balanced and perfumes themselves, which some bases somewhat approach. Indeed they would be stunning bases as well as perfumes.)

    I haven't tried everything available. I haven't tried Chris Bartlett's sandalwood, for example.

    I much too easily dislike things that are in fact commercially good. All four of these I am totally happy with. Thank you James!

    I have no suggestions for what I'd think would be improvement, or areas to criticize on any of them.

    It was also remarkable how they combine, which perfumes to me ordinarily don't do. The opened box gave a far superior perfume to the vast majority of what's sold, as the blend of the four, though I doubt they were formulated for specific intent to do that. It's amazing how they blend.
    Last edited by Bill Roberts; 14th February 2015 at 12:11 AM.

  36. #96

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Dear Bill,
    Thanks for your kind note. I really appreciate your positive feedback about my perfumes. Now I hope you can enjoy wearing them.
    Jim

  37. #97

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    And thank you Jim!

    I wrote within minutes actually after receiving, because of being so favorably impressed.

    With the advantage of just a bit more thought and perception, it's obvious to me that while what I wrote was absolutely true -- these would be extremely useful as bases for construction of other formulas, moreso than anything I've bought that was aimed towards that -- and my original context of thought was your asking about sandalwood formula and the names sound like bases -- they stand so well alone that that was the wrong context to view them in.

    I'll see how they develop with time, but so far extremely pleased with them as perfumes themselves, rather than my idea of superb bases, resulting from having for some reason expected a sandalwood base at the time of asking for the sample.

    For perfumes, the combining ability they have with any of themselves, and I'm sure with other things, is really unusual. I don't think I've seen it. That also likely contributed to my first thinking. Ordinarily a perfume is in a particular "place" whether other things will interfere with it, or it with them. Not so here. Remarkable.
    Last edited by Bill Roberts; 14th February 2015 at 12:24 AM.

  38. #98
    Basenotes Member
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    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    I totally agreeBill I recieved my package and before I tried any of them on they all made a wonderful harmony. I also agree that they can strictly be considered bases because they do morph as time goes by. As I write this the patchouli note I'm the Amber is starting to come out and my nose is picking up a hint of coumarin. I might be wrong on what I'm smelling compared to what James really put in fragrance, but it is most beautiful and the sandlewood smells amazing too and as I continue to smell it on my other wrist I feel like I'm getting touches of some musk within it. Well done James, as a student perfumer I must say I'm impressed and a little envious lol

  39. #99

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    I would conside that sandalwood base to be superior to most professional attempts I've smelled, and often by a long shot. It's balanced, rich, and projects, with a nice heart, filling out the "smell spectrum" with a certain, almost nuttiness (or a similar quality) that captures part of the spirit of complex, natural sandalwood. There were also a couple fine notes that mirror those in high grade mysore.

    So I think Mr. Peterson has achieved that, moreover, in an area of perfumery that could be considered somewhat a benchmark, in my book.

    And this might be biased, but I would expect one of us regular Basenoters to do very well, judging by the level of conversation here. So there is also some pride in being able to converse with such talented people and then sample their creations that mirror the level of conversation.

    Having said that I hope the somewhat large amount of specific feedback I provided can be taken in the spirit in which it was intended, in the context of this being quite an impressive accord, but imagining everything I would be thinking about had I created it, like a self-dialogue. I was asked for feedback, and that's just the way my brain works. I do realize that if someone just wanted a couple sentences, that could be annoying. Please ignore what you please.

    Thanks for the nice experience.
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 14th February 2015 at 02:27 AM.

  40. #100

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Dear Doctor,
    Thank you for your encouraging note. I'll be eager to hear what you think of the other scents.
    jim

  41. #101

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    James is the sample you've distributed the same as what is available on the website labeled "Sandalwood?" If so I'll order it up from the site as the reviews here are too compelling to miss this.

  42. #102

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Oh yes. They're identical.

  43. #103

    Default Re: Sandalwood Attempts

    Quote Originally Posted by James Peterson View Post
    Oh yes. They're identical.
    Great, thanks.

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