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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Sample pass: Weil Then and Now

    Hello, all:

    Having been introduced to Weil in the 1970s, 20-something, did not know I was destined to be a fume-head, by a friend's most elegant mom, I was introduced to, and seduced by the Weil family early on. A fullness of composition, fine ingredients, and a way with integrating the animal into all that elegance is how I would describe Weil. There is a lot of history, and I'll post those links later. In short, while the perfumes in various concentrations were famed in France, in the US the bath oils marketed as "Secret de Venus" were most popular. I have none of those, tho I once had a .25 ml decant of the Antilope oil. I should note, that Perfume Intelligence records my beloved Mollie Parnis as manufactured by Weil.

    Anyway, here is my collection. I will prepare 1 ml decants (more for some) and welcome any additions. Just pm me if you'd like to contribute, and post a reply to this thread if you'd like to sample. I've sent out quite a few Antilope vintage, since I have a lot of that. If you are one of the recipients, I hope you'll post your observations on my Antilope thread.

    I suppose we should start with three samplers, it would be great to have a mix of old and new noses, too.

    Here's what I have:

    •Antilope: vintage EdT, vintage PdT, newer EdC, newest EdP (Aroli)
    •Zibeline: vintage PdT
    •Bambou: mini of uncertain vintage (Interparfums?)
    •Padisha: pre-Aroli but modern (probably Interparfums)
    •Chunga: vintage
    •Secret de Venus: EdP modern (Interparfums)
    •Weil de Weil: vintage
    •Recent samples from Aroli, the current owner of the Weil name: Secret de Weil, Reve de Weil, Zibeline de Weil

    Wow, that's 13 right there. Maybe I could split them into 3 packets and the three samplers could round-robin them.

    Looking forward to hearing from you.
    Last edited by jujy54; 16th September 2012 at 11:20 AM. Reason: never happy the first time! 1970s, not 1870s! I'm not quite that old!
    What do insomniac perfumers do to fall asleep? They count chypres!

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Somehow, I had missed this (downtime perhaps?).

    I would like to participate in such a pass the sample - I know little of the house (save for a few samples from a kind BNer).

    cacio

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    I was very impressed by Mollie Parnis, though it wasn't impressed by me, lol; but if other creations by Weil even remotely that good, I am very curious. I haven't tried anything from Weil before: it would be a great educational experience. Can I join?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Yes, cacio, and Whitefluffy. Now we need one more sniffer. That might be larimar when he gets back from holiday. I'll checlk in a week from today.
    What do insomniac perfumers do to fall asleep? They count chypres!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Oh, how did I miss this too???? If Larimar is not interested, I will offer my nose as a back up sniffer! Thanks for sharing Jujy! This is fantastic!

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Yes, I'd love a spot, too- but only if you have enough space for me. It does look like you've filled up. If you have enough testers already I will still be happy to follow along!

    I've already told jujy privately but will admit to the group that I have no Weil experience. Which is a shame because I know these were highly regarded scents in their day. I do remember they got quite a bit of love here in the States.
    Last edited by PerfumedLady; 10th July 2012 at 02:04 PM.
    The nose wants what it wants!

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Can five fumeheads dance on the head of a 1 ml vial? Fortunately, I only have 2 ml vials, so, everyone here is on board. We could send the final pass to larimar. Details forthcoming.
    What do insomniac perfumers do to fall asleep? They count chypres!

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Quote Originally Posted by jujy54 View Post
    Can five fumeheads dance on the head of a 1 ml vial?
    Sure, as long as none of us have been drinking!

    Appreciate you making room for all of us, jujy! Very kind.
    The nose wants what it wants!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    I would love to be a last drip tester if there are any....... or even an empty vial sniffer....

    I know three of the Weils, Antelope, Weil and Zibeline, but not the others.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    All right then. We have our sniffers. Let me double-check that larimar will be participating. I'll post a who sends list soon, with mumsy as the final destination.
    What do insomniac perfumers do to fall asleep? They count chypres!

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Quote Originally Posted by PerfumedLady View Post
    Appreciate you making room for all of us, jujy! Very kind.
    Yes very kind indeed. Thank you, Jujy, for such unique pass around!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Thank you Jujy! That is very generous of you! I'm looking forward to exploring this house!

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Oh Poo!
    I've been too busy all week to check the forum & I missed this!

    Guess I'll just lurk here....enjoy everybody!
    Seriously Addicted to Animalics, Chypres and Vintage Pure Parfums!

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Here's a question for the more experienced passer-arounders: How far will 2 ml go? (no sprays, just plain glass vials) 3 sniffers? 5? 7? I do have more of some, notable the Antilope. I hope to put a packet together this week. Waiting to hear from larimar who is on holiday.
    What do insomniac perfumers do to fall asleep? They count chypres!

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    As for the number of people, it depends of course on how much each person uses. 5 for sure. I'd be optimistic and say 7, but perhaps you want to make sure that the last ones are iffy. One can always reoptimize as one goes.

    cacio

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Thank you cacio. I just ordered another set of the Aroli (modern) samples, which are 1.5 ml, in order to have enough. I will prepare a package when they arrive. Some of my collection are minis, and if I decided to simply send the minis along as is rather than decanting them, there will be plenty! Yes, I should do that (:
    What do insomniac perfumers do to fall asleep? They count chypres!

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    So far I've already some cherished Antilope pure but have yet to experience the rest.
    I'm on board if there's room for an upstart.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    We love upstarts. This is a great mix of new and experienced noses. As I said, waiting to hear from larimar, as well as the arrival of the Aroli (modern) samples, as mine are more than half gone. There are eight of you, and, to borrow a phrase, Eight is enough (; I will think about what order to have the package sent, wondering whether I should start with an old or a new nose...
    Watch this space early next week.
    What do insomniac perfumers do to fall asleep? They count chypres!

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Jujy - I am very sparing with my testing, one tiny dab is all I need, but I can drop out so more experienced noses can test more freely.

    Also, I think I should mention that I have an upcoming trip to Florida: I am leaving on the 29 and will be back on the 5th. Maybe I can drop to the end of a line after Larimar or whoever is last and if there is nothing left by that time, so be it
    Last edited by Whitefluffy; 17th July 2012 at 05:11 PM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Quote Originally Posted by jujy54 View Post
    Here's a question for the more experienced passer-arounders: How far will 2 ml go? (no sprays, just plain glass vials) 3 sniffers? 5? 7? I do have more of some, notable the Antilope. I hope to put a packet together this week. Waiting to hear from larimar who is on holiday.
    My experience is that they go a long way. Dab samples go much longer than the spray samples do. With the spray samples you've got to be careful. 3 people = 2 ml spray sample, not more. 2 ml dab sample can be 5 people easy, I'll be optimistic like cacio and agree with his 7 as well.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Whitefluffy, 29 july to 5 august?
    What do insomniac perfumers do to fall asleep? They count chypres!

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Yes, Jujy. I should have clarified, sorry.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    no prob, Whitefluffy.

    I am assembling the package. fwiw, here's my reviews of the newest Weils, as interpreted by the current owner of the name. Aroli.net.

    I will send to cacio first, will publish the order of sending soon, probably with larimar sending to mumsy at the end.

    mumsy, you will definitely have plenty to smell. I have decided to go all out and send my minis as is, most are at least half full.

    - - - Updated - - -

    cacio, it has been mailed.

    I will apologize in advance to all for the package weighing more than 13 oz, the magic number that saves on a trip to the post office or UPS store, as it can be sent 1st class dropped right into a mailbox. Reason being presentation. I sent all my minis in their original bottles, as well as two non-minis in their original containers, and packed the whole thing in a small wooden cigar box, the lining of which I sprayed with Mollie Parnis, my sig, and while not bearing the Weil label, was a Weil perfume accordintg to perfumeintelligenc.co.uk, a reliable site for fragrance history.

    Here's the pass list, I tried to intersperse veteran and novice noses I start with cacio for his good nose and excellent descriptions which will be of help to the newer noses. so:

    •cacio to cestrum nocturnum
    •cestrum nocturnum to Whitefluffy
    •Whitefluffy to Perfumed Lady
    •Perfumed Lady to Civet Lady
    •Civet Lady to anomie et ivoire
    •anomie et ivoire to larimar
    •and larimar to mumsy!

    These are almost all to dab rather than spray, most at least 2 ml, so it should go all the way around, exception being possibly the micro-mini of Bambou.

    To all, enjoy, take your time, and share your impressions. I took one last sniff of the collection over the last few days and will attach some brief notes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    cacio, it has been mailed.

    I will apologize in advance to all for the package weighing more than 13 oz, the magic number that saves on a trip to the post office or UPS store, as it can be sent 1st class dropped right into a mailbox. Reason being presentation. I sent all my minis in their original bottles, as well as two non-minis in their original containers, and packed the whole thing in a small wooden cigar box, the lining of which I sprayed with Mollie Parnis, my sig, and while not bearing the Weil label, was a Weil perfume accordintg to perfumeintelligenc.co.uk, a reliable site for fragrance history.

    Here's the pass list, I tried to intersperse veteran and novice noses I start with cacio for his good nose and excellent descriptions which will be of help to the newer noses. so:

    •cacio to cestrum nocturnum
    •cestrum nocturnum to Whitefluffy
    •Whitefluffy to Perfumed Lady
    •Perfumed Lady to Civet Lady
    •Civet Lady to anomie et ivoire
    •anomie et ivoire to larimar
    •and larimar to mumsy!

    Just pm your address to the person who will be sending to you.

    These are almost all to dab rather than spray, most at least 2 ml, so it should go all the way around, exception being possibly the micro-mini of Bambou.

    To all, enjoy, take your time, and share your impressions. I took one last sniff of the collection over the last few days and will attach some brief notes.
    Last edited by jujy54; 20th July 2012 at 07:15 PM.
    What do insomniac perfumers do to fall asleep? They count chypres!

  24. #24

    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Thanks so much jujy for thinking of me and organizing such a lovely sample pass. I have had no exposure to the Weils except for Zibeline PdT, which I offered you for inclusion. I am curious to experience the others as it is a house I know so little about. Thanks again so much!

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Larimar View Post
    Thanks so much jujy for thinking of me and organizing such a lovely sample pass. I have had no exposure to the Weils except for Zibeline PdT, which I offered you for inclusion. I am curious to experience the others as it is a house I know so little about. Thanks again so much!
    I have a vintage Zibeline PDT in the package, but I wonder if it has turned; it has a "mothball" (naphthalene) note, or maybe it's just coriander + civet coming out to play. If you'd like, send your Zib to cacio to compare with mine.
    What do insomniac perfumers do to fall asleep? They count chypres!

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    I am sending some samples to Cacio as well:

    Vintage Zibeline Perfume
    Vintage Secret of Venus Zibeline Bath Oil (1 mil - but a tiny dab goes a long way)
    Vintage Secret of Venus perfume (1 mil - very potent)

    Hope they last...the SOVs in particular are very strong smelling.
    If its not enough juice, I can always refill when the package gets to me.
    Seriously Addicted to Animalics, Chypres and Vintage Pure Parfums!

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Wowie, Civet Lady! You have filled in some important missing pieces. So appreciated. All we are missing is a sampling of the masculines, but what we have will be fantastic! Mille grazie! Merci beaucoup! תודה רבה!
    What do insomniac perfumers do to fall asleep? They count chypres!

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    I just received the beautiful packet. Thank-you so much! So many goodies!

    I'll start working tomorrow, for now I just put on the first two I picked, chunga and padisha.
    The opening of Chunga is a wonderful old style animalic oriental. Doesn't seem to last much though, but I didn't put much to start with, plus, I was just out of the gym and in a 100F day. Padisha on me is very sweet, vanillic oriental with some honey.

    cacio

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Oh, my pleasure, cacio. They Weils do divide into animalic (vintage) and post animalic, more or less chronologically. I should have categorized them that way in the first place, so allow me to fix that.


    The animalic Weils in the pass-around (pre-1990s by my best guess) are, Zibeline PdT, Antilope EdT and PdT, Weil de Weil, and Chunga

    Th post-animalics are: the Antilope EdC (mine was in the tall hex bottle), Padisha EdP mini, Secret de Venus EdP mini, Aroli Antilope pour Elle, and the other three Arolis, collectively designated Merveilles de Weil, to wit, Rêve de Weil, Zibeline de Weil, and Secret de Weil.

    This leaves the Bambou mini, which seems to be old-school, i.e. pre-Aroli, tho not animalic. I do get pre-IFRA levels of oakmoss in it.

    Here's a photo of the minis, they are clockwise from upper left, Padisha EdP, Secret de Venus EdP, Chunga EdP, and Bambou (EdP also I think):

    P1020989.jpg



    ps—couldyou smell the Mollie Parnis I spritzed in the box lining?

    - - - Updated - - -

    pps—click on the tiny photo for a larger version.

    - - - Updated - - -

    cacio, I agree, that Chunga is so short lived, tho I called it a woody aldehyde with animalic notes.

    Here's some capsule reviews of the samples:

    Secret de Venus EdP (post-animalic): bakery/patisserie gourmand, some fruit (raspberry?) over vanilla and spice
    Padisha (post-animalic): seems to share a base w/SdV, oriental, cinnamon dominates, some vanilla, and floral/orris, animalics not discernible—sexy woman bakes snickerdoodles
    Bambou: refined floral with subtle green and aldehydic notes, also a peppery herb (basil?) and musk. What will the drydown bring? Hours later: classic chypre drydown
    Chunga: after initial observation above, this: drydown is honeyed urinous woods and civet, this is a butchy Antilope, resembles Miss Dior tho drier

    It's late. I will fill in with others later. If you've never smelt Weil de Weil, it will knock you off your feet, I think. One of the sharpest greens ever.
    Last edited by jujy54; 24th July 2012 at 05:12 PM.
    What do insomniac perfumers do to fall asleep? They count chypres!

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Thanks for the explanations.

    Yes, The inner box smells deliciously sweet and fruity! I hope it'll remain long enough for the others to smell.

    If I stick the nose in my inner elbow, I do feel some really nice civety drydown for Chunga. But I think I simply didn't dab enough (plus, it's hot). Padisha is gone by now.

    I'm going to sleep and I couldn't help putting on a touch of zibeline. Wow, this is more intense, with the animalics firmly in place, drier and more civety than chunga.

    As I mentioned in another post, today was animalics day, having received independently two ebay vintage Tabu purchases. Indeed, while they smell obviously different, I'm getting a Tabu vibe from Zibeline...

    cacio

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Wow, cacio, coming up on 4,000 posts. Thanks for your edifying contributions to BN. On another note—so to speak—you've got me curious about Tabu now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Continuing with my notes:

    First a photo of my Weil collection, now travelling to a nose near you (;

    P1020924.jpg

    If all you see is a tiny image, click to enlarge.

    Back row L to R: Weil lde Weil mini, Weil de Weil PdT , Antilope PdT (1970s?), Antilope EdT , Antilope EdC
    In front L to R: Chunga mini, Padisha mini, Secret de Venus mini, vintage Zibeline
    missing form photo: Bambou mini and the four Aroli vials named in an earlier post

    •First, the Antilopes. Yes, there are four, the EdT and PdT are vintage, as you can see from the bottles, EdC from the aughts, and Aroli's Antilope Pour Elle. The two vintage are quite similar, and they are my go-to fragrance lately, possessing that "lotiony" drydown that seems to belong only to vintage, whether by way of tastes or IFRA. Classic aldehyde, in good company with My Sin and N° 5, with my favorite drydown, lotiony and deep. The EdC in the tall hex bottle is insipid and bears no resemblance. Aroli's Antilope Pour Elle is faint compared to the vintage, and may stand on its own merits. Among it's ingredients is oakmoss.

    Weil de Weil. I didn't send from the mini, as I sent the rntire PdT bottle. The mini is vintage, the other I'm not sure, but they are indentical. Weil de Weil opens with a bitter, bitter green, lots of galbanum. It softens to temperate white flowers with hyacinth and narcissus, follwed by a civety, leathery drydown in which the flowers persist. Launched in 1971, it is a masterpiece. I may have added some to the very missed Hillaire's epic citric/chypric sampler.

    Zibeline then and now. the vint Zib, in the cut glass bottle, packs a punch. I get a mothball (Naphthalene) smell that is off-putting then it settles down just a little into sumptuousness from a different age, one of coriander, heliotropin, civet, and incense. Aroli's modern Zibeline de Weil is a cleaned-up old Zib with a bow to modern gourmand tastes. Good on its own terms, not long lasting. Reminds me of RL Safari for Men a bit. It seems that moder (Aroli) Weil relies on a base that is peachy and vanillic, with some tonka and benzoin; this is what I get from my minis of Padisha and SdV, as well as the modern Zib.

    Secret de Weil (Aroli). Mentholated rose. Again, not long lasting, but an interesting composition.

    Rêve de Weil. Opens powdery citrus ("refreshing", heaven help me!), then temperate (not tropical) floral including violet. It's nice, nice being sometimes the kiss of death in fragrance.

    There you have it, my take on the Weils I've owned. Looking forward to everyone's insights. Happy sniffing!
    What do insomniac perfumers do to fall asleep? They count chypres!

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Not much time to smell today, so quick impressions.

    Secret de Venus: this morning. Rather sweet, disappeared before relevant animalics could be detected.
    Now, just before bed:
    Zibeline (recent): no relation with the pdt. For now, just sickly fruity sweetness. May be more interesting in the drydown? I put back on some pdt. I dont' know if it's because the pdt has turned, but there is no fruity sweetness.
    Weil de weil: green, green, vegetal, bitter mossy. Wonderful. Of course, a frag like this could simply not exist right now.

    cacio

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    The SdV I sent is a recent Weil, doubt there is any animalic ingredient. I found my SdV and Padisha minis, both modern, and the modern (Aroli) Zibeline of my collection to share a fruity vanilla base that bears no kinship with the storied Weils of old. Longevity is definitely a problem. My handwritten notes pronounce these three linear, so don't expect some revelatory drydown, alas.

    I'm glad and not remotely surprised that you like the Weil de Weil. I received some in 1979 from a friend's mother, was heartsick when I dropped that bottle on a ceramic bathroom floor, thrilled to rediscover it. It is what I measure other greens against.

    The old Zib PdT may have turned, are we both talking about the cut glass bottle, are you getting mothball smell? Larimar should be sending you his vint Zib, so hold on for it (:

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    Not much time to smell today, so quick impressions.

    Secret de Venus: this morning. Rather sweet, disappeared before relevant animalics could be detected.
    Now, just before bed:
    Zibeline (recent): no relation with the pdt. For now, just sickly fruity sweetness. May be more interesting in the drydown? I put back on some pdt. I dont' know if it's because the pdt has turned, but there is no fruity sweetness.
    Weil de weil: green, green, vegetal, bitter mossy. Wonderful. Of course, a frag like this could simply not exist right now.

    cacio
    Last edited by jujy54; 26th July 2012 at 02:34 AM.
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    I received the packet from Civetlady. Zibeline and Secret the venus. More goodies!

    So I just put on the two zibelines, perfume and bath oil. And now I tried on paper as well as skin. The perfume smells similar to jujy's pdt. The parfum perhaps has kept the top better, but we're in similar neighborhoods. On my skin, which tends to eat perfume, they both converge to the same fresh animalic note very quickly, perhaps some type of floral civet. I get a similar vibe to things like tabu and even, distantly, emeraude. But perhaps it's just that the style is so out of fashion that anything older will suggest associations.

    On paper, they retain the top notes much longer. The floral notes in the parfum are especially noticeable on paper, a beautiful clean aldehydic note. The pdt displays some but even on paper it is now in the base.

    The bath oil is quite different. It is stronger, as civetlady was saying. It has a very strong fresh top note, I'd call it mint, though it's not exactly mint. Now, 25 mins in, it is slowly moving towards something sweeter and more floral, but with the minty note still in place, with just a touch of animalic notes peeking through. But it still quite different from the alcohol forms. All very exciting sniffing!

    cacio

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Intriguing descriptions, cacio. Can't wait to sniff! And thank you Jujy for organizing all of this, and for letting a novice in on the fun. Currently on the lookout at estate sales for any other Weils to add to the selection. As a newbie, I'm especially curious about:

    1. the bath oil still being fresh(er) smelling. Is this common for vintage bath oil to retain freshness better than other concentrations?

    2. I know Jujy plans to eventually include some history-related links to the thread. Could any of you knowledgeable Weil aficionad(a)(o)s give some brief insider info on the house (history,quirks, and reputations beyond that typically found in guidebooks or databases)?

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    a&i

    civetlady may know better about oil vs alcohol. To the nose, the Zibs definitely smell different, not just one having kept the top notes better. Modern western bath oils, which are more diluted, tend to be less strong than the alcohol version, and to last less. For instance, in the the labo oils they go directly into the middle and drydown phase. The Chanel is actually richer than the edt, though it doesn't have the crispness and freshness of the parfum. Since I just bought them, I don't know how they will last.

    As for some history of the house, perfumeshrine had a couple of articles (I remember one on zibeline).

    Now, a few more tests:
    Secret de venus, perfume from civetlady and modern edt/edp from jujy. As for Zib, very different. The modern, as said yesterday, is sugary fruity, and with an undistinguished, synth drydown. The parfum is a rich floral, with sweet notes but not cloying, with some resins showing up as it goes, and with a certain thick, oily feel.

    Yesterday, I also tried reve and secret. I don't know if I'm mixing them up, I forgot which arm had what.
    Reve had a citrusy top, more peel than fruit, lemon and citron too.
    Secret had a minty top and was a little sweet. One of the two had an incense feel in the middle, I forgot which one.

    cacio

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Trying Antilope by Weil, from a decant the vintage [50 years old] today for the first time, and while I'll note my olfactive skills aren't the best but working on them. after spilling 1/5 of the decant of it all over my wrist and using my wrists to apply it to the crook of my elbows. I set to work with a little sniffing. On the opening it's a big slap of florals, but really sticky and sweet like someone was crushing a bunch of cut flowers [stem and all] and cooking it down in a pot I get a bit of green-ness. When it begins to calm down I get sort of a soapy laundry detergent smell, and can begin picking out a few specific flowers, I get some rose maybe, jasmine, lily,[I'm not good at picking specific notes out but these are what came to mind] There's some soft warm wood stuff in there as well and a hint of chalkyness, not sure if it's dried down on me yet. will update in a little while with a drydown. Also throughout there's something tea-like in it
    Last edited by Beauxbatons13; 26th July 2012 at 04:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    a&i


    Yesterday, I also tried reve and secret. I don't know if I'm mixing them up, I forgot which arm had what.
    Reve had a citrusy top, more peel than fruit, lemon and citron too.
    Secret had a minty top and was a little sweet. One of the two had an incense feel in the middle, I forgot which one.

    cacio
    My note called Secret de Weil a mentholated rose, if that's any help, cacio.

    Hi, Beaux [everyone, Beauxbatons13 is a young friend of mine, a budding and avid fumista to whom I sent some Antilope],
    glad you have jumped into this thread. Good job identifying the flowers, to which I would add muguet (lily-of-the-valley). Interesting word, chalky, for the drydown. That could be musk or amber. I also detect something anisic, maybe tarragon. Others identify ylang-ylang, and I would agree.

    Anomie et ivoire, thanks for the reminder. Master Procrastinator that I am...oh, I'll do it later today. Promise!
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    I think the 'soft warm wood' I identified could be ylang ylang, I don't get much of an anise/licorice vibe from it I can see there being amber as I'm getting more of a rose-LOTV-jasmine/amber/chalk drydown on my wrists, and more of the flowers are floating to the top in the crook of my elbow still with a hint of the chalk and that tea-like scent.

    Edit- just did a tiny re-dab and the Anise/licorice note is at the top

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    The anise may be anisic aldehydes which would definitely chime in at the top. Good 'fume sleuthing!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here is a comprehensive listing of Weil fragrances from Perfume Intelligence.

    I find their note identification to be accurate as far as those Weils I've experienced.
    Last edited by jujy54; 28th July 2012 at 10:13 PM.
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Smelled the last ones in the set, the Antilopes, comparing them, also on paper. Vintage antelopes are aldehydic floral-woody, with a touch of the Weil animalic base in the drydown. The 50s edt of civetlady seems to have more animalics than the other versions. The modern Antilopes are far simpler florals, but they are not, apparently, fruity florals as the other reissues. They also seem very fleeting. In any case, I must say that Antelope didn't wow me. Good, smooth, but there's no sparkle, nothing that makes them memorable to me or make me want to go back.

    In general about the samples. My skin eats perfumes, but the Weils seem to perform worse than most on me. Typically, they're straight to the drydown, no time for topnotes, and even the drydown isn't particularly powerful. I don't know if it's the temperature outside or just the Weil basenotes disagree with my skin. Smelling them on paper gives a different impression, because the middle notes are clearer and the perfume seems much richer. So I resmelled many of them on paper to get the whole story.

    Of the debasement of the modern versions we talked already. Not much else to add. Usually, they're inessential fruity florals.

    Favorites in the set are Weil de Weil, a dark green chypre (not a surprise given my taste) - I may check ebay from time to time. And Chunga, a dry floral. In jujy's link, it is described as a masculine - kudos, one of the few masculine florals ever created, and, as the other, it likely flopped miserably. As said, though, this one is also weak, so it would required Arabian style spraying.

    Then there are the Zibelines, I love the light "fresh animalic" base. But it is rather weak one me. Perhaps more abundant dabbing? I'd also like to see how it performs on furs, its advertised use. Fur keeps scents really well, so perhaps it was intentionally light.

    While they are not my favorites, I see myself wearing also some others. Secret de Venus (in its vintage form) has an interesting citrusy top. Citron but not quite; pine, but not quite, plus some assorted resins. Don't know why I missed it the first time I dabbed, probably I dabbed too little. Today it's clearly there. There is some of the nice animalic base, but not as intense as Zib. I liked also Bambou (nice floral chypre) and Padisha (vanillic oriental)

    The Secret de Venus Zibeline oil is very intense, but it is not the same as Zib parfum. In fact, it is much closer to the first part of the name, Secret de Venus, with a herbal note I described as minty, but now, smelled close, shows its similarities with the top of SdV. Looking around, I saw an old thread on Weil oils, some contributors seem to also indicate that the oil is a different perfume. If I were rich, I'd love to try it in its intended use.

    Sorry to take all this time to go through the samples - so many of them! Sometimes next week I'll ship off to cestrum nocturnum. Big, big thanks to jujy for organizing this wonderful and to me totally new pass the sample, and to civetlady for adding more vintage goodies!

    cacio

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Interesting. My vintage Antilope, both the EdT and the PdT, lasts forever on me (10+ hrs), and the drydown is a favorite, to my nose resembling vintage My Sin with less civet. I think the floral notes persist into the drydown which I like.

    In the meantime, I just added to my Weil collection, purchasing the masculine Kipling on ebay, so on arrival I'll send it to cestrum nocturnum, and a bit to you, too cacio. It's a leathery, woody fougere, by it's notes.
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Strange on Antilope. Perhaps then it's just my nose which is anosmic to some of the base. Who knows. But when I smell it, it does indeed resemble My sin a bit, but with far less civet.

    cacio

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    hi, everyone!

    Some news, some notes, some links.

    CivetLady was so kind and generous to send me samples of her vintage Weils, the ones she sent to cacio. Now, Weil perfumes started out as perfume for furs—the Weil family being furriers—so I decided to start with Mom's mink. Zibeline vintage pure perfume on the right sleeve, vintage Secret de Venus perfume to the left. Later I would test on skin.

    But, first I tried a bit of pure civet from CivetLady, diluted with jojoba oil. It is sweet, a bit smoky—so this is the fond du ashtray I detect in Miss Balmain!—no urine or fecal smell, just skin and for lack of a better descriptor "clean butt" smell (I really have to thank Chandler Burr for that descriptor). I get how this a platform for perfumery greatness.

    Now back to Zibeline and Secret de Venus vintage perfumes. My first impression is that fur is exactly where these scents belong. I love the smells, but not on me. Vintage Zibeline pure perfume on fur: I don't get the "mothball" accord from my own vintage Zib PdT; what I do get is a blast of bitter almond (heliotropin?) much like cacio's despised Malik al Atoor, could this be the coriander/tarragon top notes? After some luxurious floral emerges, tho I can't suss out specific notes. On my skin the beginning was similar, then fruit and spice, a smell I will encounter again in vint SdV. The civet note is sweet and a bit ashy. I asked my son what he smelled, and he said, "incense." Secret de Venus, as I mentioned is fruit and spice, and maybe a wood, since my notes include "antique store vibe." SdV on skin is more spice than fruit. Both perfumes are persistent, a very little goes along way. Conclusion: I'll save these for the mink. They truly add to the luxury in that venue.

    CivetLady also sent along the confusingly named Secret de Venus Zibeline bath oil. I can't remember where I read this, but the oils were more popular in America than Europe. I get a cool sensation plus ash at the beginning, and then the heliotropin-like bitterness.

    So, my curiosity about Weil is satisfied. For me Weil de Weil and Antilope are two I can't do without. Antilope is a go-to fragrance for me, one of those that I can wear over 50% of the time for 3 or 4 months at a stretch. Right now it isn't that scent, Oscar de la Renta's Volupté is, and come fall—who knows? I think cacio's so-so response to Antilope is actually related to my reliance on it, it is a quiet enough fragrance to wear without feeling overwhelmed. Weil de Weil is a green masterpiece, summed up brilliantly here in one sentence (cacio, you must, must read this!).

    now, as to links: perfume blogs seem to have fleeting histories, and the ones I bookmarked have largely disappeared. Here are a two I did find searching on "Weil perfume history"
    Perfume Shrine's history of Weil
    From The Vintage Perfume Vault
    which refers to the excellent but apparently defunct Scentzilla

    With that I turn it back to you, sniffers. When the Kipling arrives, I'll post some more.
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Mentioning Zibeline and Malik al Atoor in the same sentence sounds almost blasphemous to me - but after the pass the sample, I am officially in the minority!

    Interesting as usual how we perceive things differently. Zib and SdV (and Antelope) made a rather different impression on me. And they were short lived. So it is really a matter of skin or nose. My skin must find Weils of its taste, because it eats them. Or my nose cancels out the florals there. Or both. The bath oil was more persistent also on me, but to me it had more similarities to SdV, not Zib; but here at least I will agree with cool plus ash (or mint plus dried something).

    And I fully agree with the one liner about Weil de Weil, especially since swamp from this world is instead a definition I've been using for countless perfumes which to me, but not to others, smell this way (Bas de soie, Love in white - not the only one on this-, Eden, now the latest Champagne/Yvresse, etc etc).

    cacio

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    cacio, you slipped in a bon mot yourself a few comments back, to wit:

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    Of the debasement of the modern versions we talked already. Not much else to add. Usually, they're inessential fruity florals.
    cacio
    Hilariously, if unfortunately, that is indeed an olfactive family unto itself.
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    This thread is such a wealth of information! I have been avidly following everything and will enjoy perusing some of the more detailed websites linked kindly by jujy. Sorry for lurking a bit! I have really enjoyed reading the impressions thus far and I am so excited to try all of these rare treasures.

    Cacio, you are such an efficient sniffer and writer! It is truly an art to be concise and still capture the essence and character of a scent. It’s really very impressive! I can only hope to hone my own olfactory and descriptive skills as I experience more.

    Thank you again jujy, for being our fearless leader on this journey of Weil exploration!

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    ——>Revision to pass around participant list.<——

    Larimar has graciously declined, citing a surfeit of scent samples, so *....
    anomie et ivoire will pass on to mumsy,



    *and I shall cease with the alliterations.


    - - - Updated - - -

    On another ♪ note ♪:
    cacio, do you experience similarities btw Weil de Weil and Chanel 19? I pulled out my generous sample of the EdP, courtesy of TWolf, and am struck by the common galbanum, muguet, and hyacinth notes. Chanel seems more "seamless"—no swamp here!— and disappears on my skin faster, tho a multi-day test might wake up my nose, as often happens . In contrast to bittergracenotes succinct summation, yesterdaysperfume waxes rhapsodic, in addition to making the N° 19 connection. Among other things, they were both launched in 1971.

    ps cn, lurking is fine! We are all lurkers here!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Kipling EdT arrived. A well-behaved tobacco/leather masculine, not as daring or forceful as Yataga, to which it bears some resemblance. Cest, I shall send a decant on to you
    Last edited by jujy54; 1st August 2012 at 03:37 PM. Reason: more on WdW
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    I had a really long day today, but just a quick note to say that the lovely package welcoming one to the wonderful world of Weil arrived safely today!

    I love, love, LOVE No. 19 and will report back on any similarities to Weil de Weil, and look forward to the new addition of Kipling.

    Quote Originally Posted by jujy54 View Post

    *and I shall cease with the alliterations.
    Jujy, why worry, we will warden whosoever wants within:

    Alliterative Authors Anonymous

    Absent apologies and all about accommodating, affirming and acknowledging amicable, assenting adults and a special sanctuary simply serving secretive scribes somewhere safe so society stays sane.

    (What was that? Did I hear a shotgun cocking in my direction???)

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Actually, that was assonance.
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Aha! Although alliteration also allows anterior vowels. lol!

    I started unwrapping some of the vials and the aroma was so delicious combined with the Mollie Parnis and wood of the box! I can’t wait to apply later today, but still deciding how to go about it most efficiently.

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Indeed, so much stuff to smell. It might be interesting to wear different versions of the same perfume at the same time, to compare. Though it doesn't really make a difference to wear modern versions together with vintage, as the difference is very large. Also, as I wrote, many Weils seem to die quickly on me, in which case it makes sense to put on paper.

    As for Chanel 19, I wasn't thinking about it when smelling WdW, but now that you point out, there are some general similarities. But more in general, I see WdW as more of a green chypre than Chanel 19.

    cacio

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    and assonance the interior!
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Hello, I'm hijacking your hilarious yet helpful thread to inquire if anyone is familiar with Weil Eau de Fraicheur?
    A Scent Rescuer
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Yes, nothing like a fumehead to put too fine a point on absolutely any- and everything (even that previous hyphen is probably a matter of dispute, to say nothing of whether this parenthetical musing would be better served by an emdash).

    I'm not familiar with Eau de Fraicheur. It seems available and cheap, too. Fleur de Weil is rarer but not expensive on ebay. Now I'm wishing I had thought to scout around for those to include. My mind was on the animalic aspect when I thought this up.

    It would be cool to hear from anyone who has experience with these Weils.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I wantd to add that according to perfumeintelllgence.co.uk, Weil's noses included members of the Fraysse family. If anyone would like to flesh out the implications of that it would be welcome.

    Also, in my initial post for this thread I did not mention that the Weil that so captured my attention some 30 years ago was, indeed, the green, bitter chypre Weil de Weil that cacio also favors. It set the bar high for my further explorations in fragrance.
    Last edited by jujy54; 3rd August 2012 at 08:46 PM. Reason: general double posting weirdness
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Thanks jujy- I went ahead and blind bought the Eau de Fraicheur anyway with the current 20% off promotion on Fragrancenet.
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    After the sniff, I bought on ebay a bottle of Chunga pdt: masculine floral is a must for me. I liked it on paper, though on skin it disappeared within 30 seconds. I hoped that abundant dousing would help. But no. It still disappear within 30 sec. The top is a very nice and oily bergamot floral. On paper, it stays a little longer. On my skin, it goes right away into a faint drydown of honey, tonka and some amber. Very very faint. Slightly better on cloth, but only so much. I read on fragrantica that some people call it a butch Antelope. But evidently my skin does not agree.

    cacio

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    Quote Originally Posted by jujy54 View Post
    Yes, nothing like a fumehead to put too fine a point on absolutely any- and everything (even that previous hyphen is probably a matter of dispute, to say nothing of whether this parenthetical musing would be better served by an emdash).

    Aw, I hope I didn’t come across as obnoxious, jujy! I can never resist the musical allure of alliteration, and was just having some fun. I don’t ever want to leave anyone fuming. (Sorry, had to slip in a tacky pun, too.) I love all of your posts and comments, and far be it from me to be a judgmental grammarian. BTW, I went to one of those crazy schools with the supposedly “newest and best” educational methods (however, I think the students are actually just guinea pigs) and at the time, NOT teaching grammar was in vogue. My usage of language is intuitive at best!

    Thank you for all of your witty and informative posts, AND for this ***Fantabulous*** sample pass. (<-And I swear that is a real word!)

    I think I will follow cacio’s suggestion and try various of the same scent at the same time to compare and contrast. Paper sniffing is always something I forget to do! Thank you for the reminder!

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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    oh, cn, we are both big kidders. of course, no offense taken, and, likewise, mine was just a reciprocal leg pull.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Knit at nite, do post observations, please. Thanks!
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    Default Re: Sample pass proposal: Weil Then and Now

    So far I have only seen the Secret de Venus, Secret De Venus Zibeline & Secret de Venus Antilope - mostly bath oils. They all seem to have that unique spicey/minty top note. I just acquired the SDV Antilope & it is similar, but more buttery soft than the other 2 SDVs. SDV Zib has more wood/resiny notes. Please excuse my terminology for the notes, I'm still very much a newbie at this, but i do know what I like!

    On the Houbigant civet oil (copy care of "dusty rose perfumery"), this used to be my Go To scent in my 20s for evenings on the town....probably the closest thing to my signature scent. It is definitely a Long Lost Perfume, and quite honestly not as much Civet in it compared to Bal V or La Nuit for instance, but a very unique and beautiful fragrance from the 70s.
    Seriously Addicted to Animalics, Chypres and Vintage Pure Parfums!

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