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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by heperd View Post
    It is for sure a 15ml bottle. They are probably having to buy the bottles retail and could not afford to send 30ml of this one to everyone.
    Wow! Talk about "substantially not as described". If OpenSky were a person, (s)he would be banned from both eBay AND the BN marketplace!

    Quote Originally Posted by heperd View Post
    Ive already figured out what it is so i guess i'll go back and read all of the descriptions and see if they make any sense to me.
    Doubt that i will be playing again. This one was very anti climactic.
    I also have an idea what it is from Chandler's description. If what I'm thinking is right, I can understand how you might feel like you do.

    How about just spending some time with it and trying to see it through a "new nose"? I think that's the whole point, anyway. You may know what it is already, but I'm sure you could still find some benefit from the project.
    * * * *

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by lm6 View Post
    Chandler Burr: If you read this, please consider a uniform, scheduled subscription service that people can sign up for to participate. I'd love to involve myself in this project but the hiccups have dissuaded me for the time being. Granted, they're not the biggest hiccups in the world and people are still receiving their juice (well, at least half of it), but it's enough to make me sit back. Also, 30ml (even 15ml) seems like an excessive amount of juice given the premise of this project. Please consider a 5ml subscription service, the involvement would skyrocket and the effectiveness of your (admittedly very intriguing, informative and beneficial) project would have such a greater impact.

    Heperd: Wow, you already guessed it? Job well done I guess I should've assumed this project might not be able to stump the Jedi level niche heads of basenotes lol
    Yea 5-10ml would be more that enough and I think people would pay $15-$18 bucks a month and opensky will break even in the long run, even if some are niche and they are having to buy retail because some of the scents are fairly cheap. I hope they are not trying to make a profit from this experiment.
    Want to trade - Tom Ford Extreme for Windsor, Amber Absolute, Aventus x02....
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/394...82#post3308582

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  3. #63
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by heperd View Post
    Im purposely not going to smell the bottle of it that I have until the reveal. If im wrong I will be shocked.

    I have a hint for everyone- My gf one said that it smells like a dirty bj to her........sorry if tmi. Its one very subtle note that causes this association.
    Good strategy. That's what I did on the first one and it made it a lot more challenging. I spent most of the month doubting my initial impression, only to find out I was right. Stated more succinctly: you're probably right.
    * * * *

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    How about just spending some time with it and trying to see it through a "new nose"? I think that's the whole point, anyway. You may know what it is already, but I'm sure you could still find some benefit from the project.
    I will try to do this....
    It was pretty much my worst fear about this, that I would immediately know what it was and then have no patience to study it any further than I already have.
    Last edited by heperd; 18th August 2012 at 09:31 AM.
    Want to trade - Tom Ford Extreme for Windsor, Amber Absolute, Aventus x02....
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/394...82#post3308582

    CHEAP CREED SPLITS
    Millesime Imperial, Original Santal, Green Irish Tweed
    Himalaya, Aventus, Tabarome
    plus Amouage Honour & Fate Man

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/393...92#post3296892

  5. #65

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    OMG, sorry @hep for putting you through this, I do feel responsible as I suggested some kind of 'split'. $50 for 15 ml sounds atrocious + the lateness of this all, gives me a bad taste and frankly takes away my initial enthusiasm

    I do hope I'll get over myself and just smell the art, again the fragrance has innocently been caught in a man's charade...
    Last edited by Irina; 18th August 2012 at 11:16 AM. Reason: typo
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  6. #66
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by heperd View Post
    I will try to do this....
    It was pretty much my worst fear about this, that I would immediately know what it was and then have no patience to study it any further than I already have.
    Yeah, that was my fear on the first one, too. I was kind of surprised that I had such a great experience in spite of recognizing the fragrance. I think this was partly due to a new problem: smelling the fragrance *too* closely. Before long, I was *positive* it wasn't the fragrance I recognized, but some minor twist on it that I didn't know about.

    By the time we were done with the second one, I was essentially smelling batch variations as monstrous differences. So I'm not sure if this is some kind of accidental correspondence school of olfactory training, or just a cargo cult of olfactory appreciation, but either way, it's really working my nose, and making it stronger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    OMG, sorry @hep for putting you through this, I do feel responsible as I suggested some kind of 'split'. $50 for 15 ml sounds atrocious + the lateness of this all, gives me a bad taste and frankly takes away my initial enthusiasm

    I do hope I'll get over myself and just smell the art, again the fragrance has innocently been caught in a man's charade...
    I sure hope that once we start sniffing this stuff, the annoying realities of the logistics are swept off to the periphery.

    Perhaps there is a good reason for shorting everybody on the juice. If the reason was that they got >125 responses in the first few days, then I am *totally* OK with taking less juice so that everybody can play. In fact, that's a really great thing for the museum, and for the community. But all you have to do is advertise "10-50 mL, depending on number of players". Ya know?

    Sometimes I think that there is a certain - how shall we say - "comfort with the lack of need to tell the truth" - which has pervaded perfume-making since time immemorial. *SIGH*

    Anyway, I am expecting delivery any time now. Still very excited! The 15 mL bottles are quite cute!
    * * * *

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post

    Perhaps there is a good reason for shorting everybody on the juice. If the reason was that they got >125 responses in the first few days, then I am *totally* OK with taking less juice so that everybody can play.
    Perhaps they did sit around for two weeks in a beneficent haze, wondering what to do with the landslide of orders, before coming up with the idea of sending people half the juice, with no accompanying explanation, in the assumption that none of those 125 people would notice.

    Do people really think that way these days ? Perhaps they do.

    I talked to a friend who called their customer service number yesterday to ask about this, and she got a recording saying they were closed for the Holiday.

    Holiday ?

    The 15 mL bottles are quite cute!
    Red, we hereby present you with the Basenotes "Bottle half-Full" award for optimistic outlook.

    But really, I expect we will hear from Chandler soon, with a full explanation for how this kerfuffle came about, and the way that they plan to make it right for people.

    His credibility, and the credibility of this otherwise worthy project would seem to depend on it.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    My bottle arrived today, and I can confirm that it isn't 30 ml of juice, however I called OpenSky and was satisfied with the resolution they offered.

    Putting the bottle size issue aside, I am enjoying the blind sniff. So far my impression is "woodsy" as in the scent of sitting inside a circle of oak and pine trees, and it sits quite close to the skin on me. I agree with Chandler Burr's description of it as calming, tranquilizing, and plush-crisp, although I'm not getting the tuning-fork pure tone analogy yet. Of course what this might do is prove I'm terrible at analyzing scent!

    Heperd's comment is tantalizing, and of course I took a look at his basenotes wardrobe to see if it offered any clues

  9. #69

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    My bottle arrived today, and I can confirm that it isn't 30 ml of juice, however I called OpenSky and was satisfied with the resolution they offered.
    What was the resolution?
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  10. #70

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    I was offered the choice of another bottle or a refund.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    Red, we hereby present you with the Basenotes "Bottle half-Full" award for optimistic outlook.
    LOL I totally agree

    Looking forward to the resolution too!
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  12. #72
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    Perhaps they did sit around for two weeks in a beneficent haze, wondering what to do with the landslide of orders, before coming up with the idea of sending people half the juice, with no accompanying explanation, in the assumption that none of those 125 people would notice.

    Do people really think that way these days ? Perhaps they do.
    Yeah. Still kind of a head-shaker.

    I suppose it follows the maxim that we should not assume malevolent genius when stupidity will suffice. Which has to be the most cynical corollary of Occam's razor of them all, but it does seem to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    I talked to a friend who called their customer service number yesterday to ask about this, and she got a recording saying they were closed for the Holiday.

    Holiday ?
    End of Ramadan. I'm presuming they've outsourced their customer service operations, like everybody else..... *snicker*

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    Red, we hereby present you with the Basenotes "Bottle half-Full" award for optimistic outlook.
    LMAO

    ...because the "Bottle Half-Sized But Completely Full" award just seems a wee bit *too* optimistic!

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    But really, I expect we will hear from Chandler soon, with a full explanation for how this kerfuffle came about, and the way that they plan to make it right for people.

    His credibility, and the credibility of this otherwise worthy project would seem to depend on it.
    I know that he's loathe to crap on anybody, including OpenSky, but just a quiet rumor floated through the net would be enough for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    I was offered the choice of another bottle or a refund.
    The option to get as much juice as we actually ordered sounds like a plan.

    Perhaps they'll just - like - send the second bottle to people and be done with it. And while they're at it, they can thank their lucky stars that 250 extra 15-mL bottles and a second shipment of juice from [wherever] is a whole lot cheaper than what could happen if somebody really digs into this. 'Cause I smell more than just weak juice this time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ending on a more positive note, I got my (first) 15-mL bottle of E03 today! I can confidently tell thebeck to stay away from this one. This scent is clearly lovable to somebody who loves E01 and E02. Wonderful series, this is, if you love transparency. I'm enjoying this fragrance, but it is *NOT* what I thought it might be. It's very similar, but it's not the same frag.

    I feel as if I'm getting a handle on the "tonal" quality that Chandler speaks of, and that his definition and mine are at least similar. However, I really need to study this new frag to get a full understanding of it.

    More later....
    * * * *

  13. #73

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    Ending on a more positive note, I got my (first) 15-mL bottle of E03 today! I can confidently tell thebeck to stay away from this one. This scent is clearly lovable to somebody who loves E01 and E02. Wonderful series, this is, if you love transparency. I'm enjoying this fragrance, but it is *NOT* what I thought it might be. It's very similar, but it's not the same frag.

    I feel as if I'm getting a handle on the "tonal" quality that Chandler speaks of, and that his definition and mine are at least similar. However, I really need to study this new frag to get a full understanding of it.

    More later....
    This is good news, sounds like it's worth the cash and trouble after all? Does it smell 'niche'?
    I do loooove transparency. Can't wait for my decant to arrive!
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  14. #74
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    This is good news, sounds like it's worth the cash and trouble after all? Does it smell 'niche'?
    I do loooove transparency. Can't wait for my decant to arrive!
    Excellent questions!

    I wouldn't really have had a problem with $50 for 15 mL, in the sense that $140 for 1 oz (30 mL) is not unheard of in the niche world. However, I would have called that a "steep retail" price. On the other hand, I think most folks who smell this are going to say $50 for 30 mL is a "good deal", relative to standard niche prices.

    Now - does it smell "niche"? That is such a great question, and I think we could talk about it forever. I mean, many people would object to the question itself. But I do think that we can (mostly) agree that it's possible to ask if something smells stereotypically designer or niche. I would say that S01E03 does NOT smell sterotypically niche. And yet, I have to say, it smells within the bounds of non-surprising niche. In formulating that answer, I personally don't think it's odd or stylistically daring. I wore it last night to dinner in a fancy but relaxed restaurant, and people didn't even notice enough to say anything. It was definitely not out of place.

    I think it could easily have been a designer scent. Maybe not one that would have made a ton of money, but still.

    Which leads to the thought that it's very unisex. More so than S01E01, which some of the boys on the MFD board used to accuse of giving the wearer cooties. (I remember laughing badly at one n00b recommendation - buy Infusion d'Homme if you're straight, and Infusion d'Iris if you're not. )

    Which leads to the idea of "tonality". In the case of S01E03, it is as if the perfumers abstracted the idea of tonality out of S01E03, leaving behind things like "feminine" and "upscale Italian designer" and all the perfumery cues that lead to those. They clearly tried to make this thing very featureless and bereft of obvious evocations. In doing so, gender falls away quickly. The closest mainstream genres to it would be sparse, cool, men's sport colognes, and on the women's side, those dainty-but-not-prissy light florals where they're clearly trying to be fuzzy about the flower, and simply evoke youth, spring, etc.

    And that means transparency. This thing is *hugely* transparent. This is why I just had to warn away thebeck from even thinking about a buy. If you didn't like S01E01, then S01E03 is going to be horribly wrong. S01E03 is a lot like S01E01, only LESS. But if you think that transparency is most awesome, then less is more, so this should be very lovable. This fragrance is very much one of those "wireframe" scents. I'm really getting Chandler's comments on the volume of the fragrance. This scent carves out volume, but doesn't fill it with all the usual stuff.

    Now - tonality. Third day of art school, and the pace is picking up. Here is what he said on OpenSky, where I commented specifically about tonality:


    Neil Sternberg · Application Developer at Chemical Industry - Really looking forward to this one - not only as an artistic experience, but simply as a fragrance. Fragrances which evoke tonal qualities are among my favorites. S01E03 thus qualifies as both a ticket for a blindfold, and a blind buy.
    Reply · 1 · Like · Unfollow Post · August 1 at 11:11pm

    Now - I have to admit that I'm musical but not a musician. My son is a musician - so perhaps I'm just a carrier of any presumptive musical gene. My gut feeling is that I get tonality in fragrance, but not like a musician might. When Chandler originally described this scent, a couple of fragrances (which turn out not to be E03) immediately lept to mind. Once I sniffed S01E03, I was immediately confident that I have *some* idea of tonality in fragrance, because there is a lot of similarity to my nose.

    And THIS is my current understanding of these scents. Chandler's analogy of S01E03 to a tuning fork seems like a very good one. S01E03 has that same quiet but penetrating character that a tuning fork has. Identifiability of the source is difficult. The fragrances I was thinking of, in contrast, are excellent examples of the *USE* of a fairly obvious tone, just like (if I'm getting Chandler correctly) S01E01. Those two fragrances I was thinking of are like instruments playing one unchanging tone - yet oodles of harmonics and characteristic frequencies that tell us "piccolo" or "saxophone" are pouring out, and it is clearly not the metallic minimization of a tuning fork. Neither are they playing a scale, because the whole point of those fragrances seems to be to push one really clear note above all others and hold it there from beginning to end.

    But what makes S01E03 different? So now I want to concentrate on S01E03. I'm reading about tone and tonality, and I'm going to harass my son for more answers. And I don't' feel particularly guilty about it, either, since I just paid his tuition! However, it may also be helpful to approach tonality from a language perspective as well, so I'm reading about that.

    I think that it may be interesting to think about what fragrance this is, and it may be fun to discover how I feel about it, but I think that the big challenge this time is going to be trying to understand what it is that makes it different from other fragrances, in terms of musical abstractions.
    Last edited by Redneck Perfumisto; 19th August 2012 at 03:16 PM. Reason: S01E03 != S01E01
    * * * *

  15. #75

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    S01E03 starts out with a fruity tangerine/mandarin citrus blast, which quickly goes away, leaving a synthetic smell that's hard to relate to anything natural, something vaguely floral/milky/musky, a bit of a cigarette pack smell. There is an aromachemical in Secretions Magnifiques that has a strange effect that's more noticeable when someone else is wearing it, a radiant glow that seems to surround the person without emanating from the person. Since after several hours, the smell on your skin has a white bandage/clinical smell that's similar to SM's drydown (although easier to wash off), my guess that the aromachemical is the same.
    Last edited by ROtto; 19th August 2012 at 06:19 PM.

  16. #76
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by ROtto View Post
    S01E03 starts out with a fruity tangerine/mandarin citrus blast, which quickly goes away, leaving a synthetic smell that's hard to relate to anything natural, something vaguely floral/milky/musky, a bit of a cigarette pack smell. There is an aromachemical in Secretions Magnifiques that has a strange effect that's more noticeable when someone else is wearing it, a radiant glow that seems to surround the person without emanating from the person. Since after several hours, the smell on your skin has a white bandage/clinical smell that's similar to SM's drydown (although easier to wash off), my guess that the aromachemical is the same.
    Very nice description of the scent. I can't vouch for the part about Secretions Magnifiques, but the rest of what you say sounds precisely like my experience of the scent, in terms of identifiable notes and facets.
    * * * *

  17. #77

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    You're right, Red, about the price & niche.

    I do wonder about how 'metallic' the scent will be (I might have an idea which aromachem is responsible for that SM feeling).
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  18. #78

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    A rep from OpenSky posted on Kate Puckrik's web site providing her email address, and I wrote to her directly recapping what we've said here (about pricing, transparency of process, shipping dates, and the bottle size). Apparently the size differential was news to her, since apparently the fragrance houses ship the bottles directly to OpenSky's warehouses, and then they're packaged for shipping to customers.

    So it sounds like those folks who want to play in the dwindling days of the month will receive their shipments much more promptly, for what that's worth.
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  19. #79
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    You're right, Red, about the price & niche.

    I do wonder about how 'metallic' the scent will be (I might have an idea which aromachem is responsible for that SM feeling).
    I find it actually less metallic than another scent that I thought it might be. However, I would take that with a grain of sodium. One thing I've noticed about this scent is that the initial citrus is used in a rather cunning way. If you focus properly, you can detect that it is more citric than almost all of the other scents that I've compared it to. And yet, if I just spray it on and let myself get hit by the great whatever shall be, then I really don't notice the citrus at all, but rather the razor-sharp tone or tones that seem to be the point. Stated differently, I know that citrus is there, but at a certain level of focus, I don't smell it. So I would not rule a metallic note in or out, without looking for it very carefully.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friede View Post
    A rep from OpenSky posted on Kate Puckrik's web site providing her email address, and I wrote to her directly recapping what we've said here (about pricing, transparency of process, shipping dates, and the bottle size). Apparently the size differential was news to her, since apparently the fragrance houses ship the bottles directly to OpenSky's warehouses, and then they're packaged for shipping to customers.

    So it sounds like those folks who want to play in the dwindling days of the month will receive their shipments much more promptly, for what that's worth.
    Thank you very much for that news, Friede! Actually, it's nice to know (in some ways) that the problems here are distributed, rather than all concentrated on OpenSky.

    I hate to see OpenSky having to pony up extra bottles for people who are complaining, but maybe things need to bubble back to the company that came up with 15 = 30. Unless, of course, there was a boo-boo in the contract!

    Honestly, I will be tempted to buy this one from OpenSky after the reveal. It's really growing on me, and my 15 mL bottle isn't going to last. This scent should appeal to people who like fragrances which consist primarily of a sharp, clear, brilliant note.
    * * * *

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Friede View Post
    A rep from OpenSky posted on Kate Puckrik's web site providing her email address, and I wrote to her directly recapping what we've said here (about pricing, transparency of process, shipping dates, and the bottle size). Apparently the size differential was news to her....
    Which is all the more distressing, seeing as how Katie had plainly written about the size problem in her blog at the time this rep posted. She didn't even bother to read Katie's comments prior to her posting, and was still in the dark about the bottle issue?

    Apparently the size differential was news to her since apparently the fragrance houses ship the bottles directly to OpenSky's warehouses, and then they're packaged for shipping to customers.
    I'm sorry, but she's telling people that Opensky received the items into their physical possession, their people then personally handled and shipped them and we are supposed to understand that this is the reason why OpenSky doesn't know anything about them ?

    LOL....the rep also said they were working with Katie so Katie could offer OpenSky credits on her site to people for the next buy.

    To which Katie basically said, "Huh??"

    Lovin' the closely interconnected nature of OpenSky's business model, I must admit.

    And, because I enjoy this project, hoping they can get things straightened out promptly, and in a way that salvages some of it's credibility.

  21. #81

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    I'm sorry, but she's telling you that Opensky received the items into their physical possession, their people then personally handled and shipped them and we are supposed to understand that this is the reason for OpenSky not knowing anything about them ?
    I'm as underwhelmed as you are by the right hand's cluelessness as to what the left hand is doing, Birdboy -- I'm approaching all of this from a position of goodwill but great disinclination to participate beyond this month still.
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  22. #82

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Hi. This is Allison from OpenSky. I wanted to apologize for all the confusion with shipping and let you know that this will not happen again. In addition, everyone who who purchased the fragrance will be receiving a credit since the perfume
    House fulfilled 15ml bottles rather than 30ml. We hope you will continue to join us for the rest of the untitled series as we love this series, chandler and our fragrance fans out there. Please feel free to reach out to me at aslater@opensky.com. I appreciate all your feedback and comments. Thank you!

  23. #83
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Allison Slater View Post
    Hi. This is Allison from OpenSky. I wanted to apologize for all the confusion with shipping and let you know that this will not happen again. In addition, everyone who who purchased the fragrance will be receiving a credit since the perfume
    House fulfilled 15ml bottles rather than 30ml. We hope you will continue to join us for the rest of the untitled series as we love this series, chandler and our fragrance fans out there. Please feel free to reach out to me at aslater@opensky.com. I appreciate all your feedback and comments. Thank you!
    Sounds good to me, Allison. As long as the credits persist into the next cycle of the series (because some of them have had a way of expiring a bit too soon, sometimes), then I'm perfectly satisfied by this response. It's nice to be able to apply credits toward either the next fragrance in the series, or (should it ever happen) leftover bottles.

    We all love this series, too. As something of a first of its kind, a few kinks are certainly understandable. I think that a lot of people would enjoy seeing this sort of internet fragrance project become a sustainable phenomenon, and I think it could be a good thing for the museum and OpenSky for a long time.

    Thanks for responding and correcting the situation - much appreciated, Allison! Cheers! -Neil
    * * * *

  24. #84
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by ROtto View Post
    S01E03 starts out with a fruity tangerine/mandarin citrus blast, which quickly goes away, leaving a synthetic smell that's hard to relate to anything natural, something vaguely floral/milky/musky, a bit of a cigarette pack smell.
    So, with all this talk of tonality and one note ringing out above everything, what is the note? Is it a particularly musky tobacco? Or would you call it metallic? Usually metallic smells have their roots in lavender (used in clever ways, it can smell like electricity more than the flowers we know and love). In addition, the comment about a white bandage/clinical smell reminds me of Jo Malone's Amber & Lavender, where the lavender is used to give a weird medicinal buzz to the amber.
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  25. #85

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    Sounds good to me, Allison. As long as the credits persist into the next cycle of the series (because some of them have had a way of expiring a bit too soon, sometimes), then I'm perfectly satisfied by this response. It's nice to be able to apply credits toward either the next fragrance in the series, or (should it ever happen) leftover bottles.

    We all love this series, too. As something of a first of its kind, a few kinks are certainly understandable. I think that a lot of people would enjoy seeing this sort of internet fragrance project become a sustainable phenomenon, and I think it could be a good thing for the museum and OpenSky for a long time.

    Thanks for responding and correcting the situation - much appreciated, Allison! Cheers! -Neil
    Thanks Neil. The credit will be posted to your credit card. Thanks for you support and quick response!

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Allison Slater View Post
    Thanks Neil. The credit will be posted to your credit card. Thanks for you support and quick response!
    No problem! Credit card credit is even better. It will just be going back to OpenSky in my case, but I appreciate the fact that people are getting a choice here.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    So, with all this talk of tonality and one note ringing out above everything, what is the note? Is it a particularly musky tobacco? Or would you call it metallic? Usually metallic smells have their roots in lavender (used in clever ways, it can smell like electricity more than the flowers we know and love). In addition, the comment about a white bandage/clinical smell reminds me of Jo Malone's Amber & Lavender, where the lavender is used to give a weird medicinal buzz to the amber.
    Really glad you asked, Allen. That is something that I really think is worth pursuing.

    There IS a very slight tobacco note in the background of this thing. But THAT is not the piercing, whining presence that I am almost positive Chandler is talking about. When you say metallic, I almost want to say yes, but it's metallic in almost a mirror-like way. I think that Chandler's images are precisely correct for the part of the fragrance that I'm equating to "tone":

    This scent’s surface has the odd minimalist plush of very shallow satin and the unforgiving touch of glass— a combination of soft and, not *hard, exactly, more crisp.
    Very shallow satin and glass. Those work for me. Although satin threatens to bombard me with color images (I love red and blue satin), if I forget those and concentrate on the feel of *shallow* satin, then moving my fingerprints across shallow satin strikes me as high frequency - which is what this note seems like to me as well. And glass - he seems to be thinking of something like capillary glass, which is indeed hard, but fragile and yielding under pressure.

    The note that I think he's talking about is more like a chypre ghost note - thin, sharp, and eerie. But that actually fits rather nicely with what you're describing for lavender. Words like "electricity" and "metallic" are close to what I'm thinking. Especially if you remove the metal and leave something like metal foil or just the mirror finish itself behind.

    The two fragrances that I was thinking this might be - they strike me as metallic - silver and gold. But if you tip a metal surface to the point where there is nothing but shine, and you can't really see the metal - *that* is how the note I'm thinking of feels to me in S01E03.

    My perception of the note also changes with distance. I find it most pure when it's fairly dilute, and I'm not getting the other notes of the fragrance. If my nose is just the right distance away, I get it as a pure, sharp, beautiful scent. The longevity isn't as great as I would like, but the opening and early heart are pretty stellar.

    Wait - just a second. You haven't ordered it yet, have you? I'm sending you a sample, dude!!! You have to sniff this.
    * * * *

  27. #87

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    So, with all this talk of tonality and one note ringing out above everything, what is the note? Is it a particularly musky tobacco? Or would you call it metallic? Usually metallic smells have their roots in lavender (used in clever ways, it can smell like electricity more than the flowers we know and love). In addition, the comment about a white bandage/clinical smell reminds me of Jo Malone's Amber & Lavender, where the lavender is used to give a weird medicinal buzz to the amber.
    "Musky tobacco" sounds too dark and opaque, and this is a glowing and transparent scent. The "tobacco," which isn't strong and fades after a while, is the smell you get when you open a pack of "light" cigarettes, complete with cellophane and paper, that's more about some added aromachemical than anything natural.

    The smell is not really metallic, more like the smell of skin after you've licked it. If you took lavender and removed everything green and herbal about it you might get something close.

  28. #88

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    It might be an carbaldehyde that does that, I know green carbaldehyde (odor profile: fresh green aldehydic metallic citrus adoxal profarnesal) does that to my nose (the pack of "light" cigarettes, complete with cellophane and paper) or fresh carbaldehyde (odor profile: fatty green metallic aldehydic). But will need to smell see if there is any fatty or floral nuance to it, cos then it might be something else like damascones.

    (this rules out what I thought it might be from the description)

    I know little of music and tones so I can't relate on that subject.
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  29. #89
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    It might be an carbaldehyde that does that, I know green carbaldehyde (odor profile: fresh green aldehydic metallic citrus adoxal profarnesal) does that to my nose (the pack of "light" cigarettes, complete with cellophane and paper) or fresh carbaldehyde (odor profile: fatty green metallic aldehydic). But will need to smell see if there is any fatty or floral nuance to it, cos then it might be something else like damascones.

    (this rules out what I thought it might be from the description)

    I know little of music and tones so I can't relate on that subject.
    Cool! There is definitely a faint cured tobacco note, so I think we're all agreeing about it. I get it more on skin than on paper, and not from the sprayer, either.
    * * * *

  30. #90

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    At last, my bottle (and yes, so wee!) arrived!

    First spray (on forearm) seemed intensely familiar, though a memory from somewhere in the 90s, when I had absolutely no interest in perfume. I'm also getting that vague "unwrapping cellophane" note, but what's most present to me (and I'm practically live-spraying here) is that the point of origin seems unclear -- it's not hovering, it's not melding, it's... something else. It seems nonexistent as I type, but when I bring my arm up near my nose it is VERY present.
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Has everyone here tried Declaration? After the famous orange/cumin top burns off, I get a brilliant smell from it. When I was a kid, my mom used to let me do little art projects melting crayons on hot aluminum foil. It's a very unique smell, the hot thin metal and the molten wax. That's what Declaration's base smells like to me. But the genius is that the hot foil/wax smell actually smells a LOT like hot kisses on someone's neck.

    ROtto's quote "The smell is not really metallic, more like the smell of skin after you've licked it" reminds me of this clever dichotomy, how the smell of hot metal can smell so human.

    Is this sort of the smell?

    (Obviously, the mystery sample isn't Declaration - no one's talking about oranges and cumin - I just love it as an explanation of what I'm trying to ask about)

    (and thanks Red! You still have my info?)
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  32. #92
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Friede View Post
    ...but what's most present to me (and I'm practically live-spraying here) is that the point of origin seems unclear -- it's not hovering, it's not melding, it's... something else. It seems nonexistent as I type, but when I bring my arm up near my nose it is VERY present.
    Yes - I get this same quality. At times, I can detect it when the point of origin (my arm or hand) is far away - it comes through as an odd type of radiance, which is different from a normal sillage. What I mean by that is, that because it is so radiant/penetrating/light and not heavy/opaque/obvious/swirly, it doesn't really seem to have a direction or gradient, in the same way that the sillage of heavy scents does.

    The "tone" seems to grow in volume (as in decibels) when I move the source closer, but the experience is very much like a sound, or a vibration, and not as much like a smell. I really find it odd.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    Has everyone here tried Declaration? After the famous orange/cumin top burns off, I get a brilliant smell from it. When I was a kid, my mom used to let me do little art projects melting crayons on hot aluminum foil. It's a very unique smell, the hot thin metal and the molten wax. That's what Declaration's base smells like to me. But the genius is that the hot foil/wax smell actually smells a LOT like hot kisses on someone's neck.

    ROtto's quote "The smell is not really metallic, more like the smell of skin after you've licked it" reminds me of this clever dichotomy, how the smell of hot metal can smell so human.

    Is this sort of the smell?

    (Obviously, the mystery sample isn't Declaration - no one's talking about oranges and cumin - I just love it as an explanation of what I'm trying to ask about)

    (and thanks Red! You still have my info?)
    I will try to sniff Declaration. I agree - I don't think that's what this is, because I get a strong TdH vibe from Declaration, which I do not here, but it's worth seeing if there is any similarity in the brilliant thing you're mentioning. But yes - it is definitely a sort of piercing "sharp-but-not-painful-or-cringeable" thing. The tuning fork analogy remains perfect in terms of "sharpness" as well.

    Your sample is already in the mail, Allen! I got 4 samples off this morning. Birdboy, 30 Roses, and SOS will be getting some as well. I'll have to buy another bottle, because I'm already running low.

    Still haven't bugged my son to give me the Cliff Notes explanation of tonality, but perhaps tonight!
    * * * *

  33. #93

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    I wore S01E03 again today, and unfortunately applied a bit too much and didn't enjoy it. I think I've finally discovered its "tuning fork" characteristic. Its unrelenting and unchanging as you wear it (once the citrus peel top note wears off.)

  34. #94

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    I wore S01E03 again today, and unfortunately applied a bit too much and didn't enjoy it. I think I've finally discovered its "tuning fork" characteristic. Its unrelenting and unchanging as you wear it (once the citrus peel top note wears off.)
    I oversprayed later too (and by "oversprayed" I mean "two sprays") and the while I could not say it *smelled* bad to me, it disconcerted me on a register below/beyond my ability to locate what repelled me. This was also true in the drydown of the first wearing -- that cellophane-like, not-quite-tobacco note held steady just below immediate perception, and buzzed in my sinuses, not quite grabbing, but not letting go, either.

    I have to say, as a potentially $50 experience it would have really bugged me how very little I like this (and not just "dislike" but actively find disconcerting to wear), but as a $25 (well, and with my credits, ultimately $12) learning experience, I am fascinated, and am glad to have this in my "files" for future course materials.
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    It's interesting that, aside from "cellophane and light cigarettes" and "skin after you've licked it", no one has really described what the actual smell is. Is it so completely outside of normal that it doesn't remind anyone of anything they've smelled? It sounds like it has an "Ellena vibe" in the sense that he can put together almost indescribable smells that hover around the body in ways that other perfumes don't.

    Also, no one is describing their emotional reactions, which everyone tried so hard to do last time... Thoughts??

    (also, thank you Red! Please make sure your wardrobe is updated)

    - - - Updated - - -

    And, because it's the middle of the night and I have nothing better to do, a little discussion of tone versus tonality. I've been a music guy for many years, and here's a very simplified version of how I think about it:

    Every traditional western song is in a key. Say it's in the key of C major. There's a scale of notes (a C major scale - C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C) that corresponds to that key and contains all the notes you're supposed to use. Those are the accepted tonalities. All the notes used in the song should be accepted tonalities that correspond to the key that the song is in, meaning that something like an F# major chord in a song in the key of C would sound very out of place because it's made of the wrong notes (of course, this only really applies to rather simple old-world songwriting - complex classical songs used notes that didn't correspond, and jazz almost completely broke us away from this, opening the doors to much modern music breaking these rules).

    However, there's totally different meaning of "tonal" in music, too, the use of tonal chords. In a weird way, it means the opposite of what I just said - it's where you always play a specific kind of chord (major, minor, etc), even if it means that some of the notes you play are outside of what's considered acceptable for the key the song is in. It's a jazz thing, but has spread to popular music, especially techno. That being said, there isn't as much of a tone/tonal juxtaposition in this definition (and it implies supporting notes that make no sense but somehow work, which is an interesting perfume concept, but not what I think Chandler was going for).

    I think a more apt explanation is color. Here's a pure tone, in this case red (yes, pun intended):



    Here are a bunch of shades that correspond to red. When you see this, you think "red" even though most of it technically isn't red - in other words, it's a bunch of tonalities of red:



    My take on Chandler's comment that sample 1 (Infusion d'Iris) was tonal is that the main tone is the iris, but it's a complex smell wherein everything there (soap, powder, vague woods, etc) support and imply iris the same way all the shades of red in the second picture support and imply the color red. They're not all iris, but they support the iris, building up a tonality of iris the same way the second picture builds up a tonality of red.

    So, that brings us to sample 3 and his insistence that it's a single tone. Does he mean that it's just one ingredient? Or (more likely) that it's a mix of ingredients so seamless and unwavering that the mix itself is the tone (imagine a wall painted a grey-green color made by mixing a lot of other colors, but the end result is just one tone)?

    So, does it just broadcast out a single, unsupported, unwavering smell? Is that even a good thing?
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  36. #96

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Love your explanation @rogalal, thank you for sharing! It reminds me of the work of one of my favorite abstract painters Ad Reinhardt. His black paintings are just that 1 tone: black but painted with so many different shades of black (he also did blue, red and green).
    So maybe E03 is 'fifty shades of space' ? LOL

    And I agree, I'd love to hear more about the feeling that E03 invokes when smelt.
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  37. #97

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Hi everyone. First, I'm truly sorry for the mess. Second, I've just spent an hour reading the comments here, and they're terrific.

    As I just said on Katie's blog, I'm on vacation with my extended family where cell service is semi-existent and internet sparse, and the only reason I heard about the screw-up of the 15mls' being sent instead of the 30mls is that Katie sent me a WTF heads up and I happened to check my email.

    The fact is that we're still in shakedown cruise on the logistics of this experiment. OpenSky has systems that work great for other goods but not yet for perfumes, partic those in lab bottles. I've proposed something that is outside norms for all the companies involved, which has created these delays and mistakes.

    As for the Basenotes conversation, Perfume_Addict's comment, which is terrific, is the reason that I love doing this. “I think I've finally discovered its ‘tuning fork’ characteristic. It’s unrelenting and unchanging as you wear it.” That is—exactly—what I meant to convey. Friede’s response is very interesting too. “[W]hile I could not say it *smelled* bad to me, it disconcerted me on a register below/beyond my ability to locate what repelled me.” E03 is one of the most unchanging of scents— a testimony to the technical precision of the two artists who created it under the creative director’s guidance— and that can be disconcerting (for those who prize evolution of a work), repellant (for those like Friede who dislike it), or a marvel of engineering that makes the work that much more intensely pleasant (for those like myself who love it).

    And this is simply beautiful: “…that cellophane-like, not-quite-tobacco note held steady just below immediate perception, and buzzed in my sinuses, not quite grabbing, but not letting go, either.”

  38. #98
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    It's interesting that, aside from "cellophane and light cigarettes" and "skin after you've licked it", no one has really described what the actual smell is. Is it so completely outside of normal that it doesn't remind anyone of anything they've smelled? It sounds like it has an "Ellena vibe" in the sense that he can put together almost indescribable smells that hover around the body in ways that other perfumes don't.

    Also, no one is describing their emotional reactions, which everyone tried so hard to do last time... Thoughts??

    (also, thank you Red! Please make sure your wardrobe is updated)

    ...[great explanation snipped]....
    I am tempted to say that it's a somewhat indescribable smell, but I think that may just be me. All things are subject to language, and thus I'm sure there is a vocabulary possible for this smell, and that many (especially perfumers) can describe it. The question is whether it's a widely shared describability, and I would say not so much. Woody, citrus, green and floral are easy to agree upon near their centers. Woody is a big dartboard that almost everybody agrees on. The class of smell that this belongs to is not so big.

    That's part of the reason I used the "ghost note" analogy. To me, it's not a very easily identifiable odor. Perhaps that's a bit of a cop-out, but visually I think it's somewhat analogous to colors of metals. We have words for metal colors that are basically the metals themselves. Why? Because metals seem to lack the same characteristics of absorption that lend themselves to description of the color of normal objects. Woody is brown, rose is red, and vegetal is green, because we can do easy mappings of certain recognizable olfactory patterns to corresponding colors, and they're intellectually and emotionally satisfying. But what colors are "metallic", "ozonic", and "fresh"? I tend to think that certain sharp odors don't really pattern-match in normal ways, and that they are therefore analogous to fairly pure tones created by, e.g., tuning forks.

    You're right about the emotional stuff. Not as much here. Why? VERY interesting question. Perhaps this is a very technical fragrance, and you have to find a very special way to "love" it. There's also not much that's identifiable here. There's not so much "story". Fragrance leading to emotional reactions is a really interesting phenomenon, where little twists in the path of the butterfly not only lead to larger effects in the unfolding world, but seem to do so repeatedly and reliably. Thus, the more you put in the right micro-incentives, the more you tip the balance toward certain macroscopic patterns. The fact that flowers generate chemical attractants that larger and self-styled intelligent plant parasites then use in mimicry to similar effect - kind of a neat pattern. But when those plant parasites create things beyond nature - what then?

    The two fragrances that I think are somewhat similar to this, use the tonal effect by adding more to it, amping up the tone to a much greater volume (loudness) than in E03, and thereby tipping the emotional scales toward the desired briefs. Knowing the briefs/backstories for those fragrances, I can say that the use of this sort of "unrelenting tone" can, indeed, carry some emotional weight. I - personally - think that those two fragrances are also works of art for living up to their briefs so well. I don't want to mention the fragrances now, but perhaps later.

    Can I get emotional about this fragrance - even without a backstory, or other marketing cues? Yes, but let's be honest - I'm a perfume nut. I actually have a bunch of little stories that I think about when I smell S01E03, which kind of go with the music on the TV right now (woodwinds, baby animals, nature documentary), but then that's just how my broken brain works. I sometimes like to freak out normal people by telling them about the time I had an erotic dream centered on a *sound*. It was a tone, and it was deeply erotic. Not after I woke up, but in my dream..... grrrrrrrrr. Kinda freaky. I'll try to let my emotions go on this one later. (I did a story about my feelings brought out by vintage/full-strength Mugler Cologne earlier - I just haven't put it up on my blog yet.)

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    My take on Chandler's comment that sample 1 (Infusion d'Iris) was tonal is that the main tone is the iris, but it's a complex smell wherein everything there (soap, powder, vague woods, etc) support and imply iris the same way all the shades of red in the second picture support and imply the color red. They're not all iris, but they support the iris, building up a tonality of iris the same way the second picture builds up a tonality of red.

    So, that brings us to sample 3 and his insistence that it's a single tone. Does he mean that it's just one ingredient? Or (more likely) that it's a mix of ingredients so seamless and unwavering that the mix itself is the tone (imagine a wall painted a grey-green color made by mixing a lot of other colors, but the end result is just one tone)?

    So, does it just broadcast out a single, unsupported, unwavering smell? Is that even a good thing?
    That is a great question. I would say that it's probably not a single ingredient making the "tone or tones". But it may be one ingredient's sharp peak being used as the tone, with other ingredients being used to mask or smooth out other aspects of that ingredient to sharpen it up. Perfumers' secret, I guess, unless they want to spill. Maybe Irina can shed some light on it.

    In any case, there is a strong and very thin, tall signal with a very high signal-to-noise ratio. The question to me is whether the signal is one "frequency" or several, possibly in some kind of harmony. I'm not getting my usual "harmonic buzz" sensation from this, which I do from some chypres, but that may be for different reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Love your explanation @rogalal, thank you for sharing! It reminds me of the work of one of my favorite abstract painters Ad Reinhardt. His black paintings are just that 1 tone: black but painted with so many different shades of black (he also did blue, red and green).
    So maybe E03 is 'fifty shades of space' ? LOL

    And I agree, I'd love to hear more about the feeling that E03 invokes when smelt.
    Looking forward to when you sniff this! Do you have a sample coming for sure?

    Quote Originally Posted by chandlerburr View Post
    The fact is that we're still in shakedown cruise on the logistics of this experiment.
    I would say that we've managed to get past our "Costa Concordia moment" relatively unscathed!

    Quote Originally Posted by chandlerburr View Post
    As for the Basenotes conversation, Perfume_Addict's comment, which is terrific, is the reason that I love doing this. “I think I've finally discovered its ‘tuning fork’ characteristic. It’s unrelenting and unchanging as you wear it.” That is—exactly—what I meant to convey. Friede’s response is very interesting too. “[W]hile I could not say it *smelled* bad to me, it disconcerted me on a register below/beyond my ability to locate what repelled me.” E03 is one of the most unchanging of scents— a testimony to the technical precision of the two artists who created it under the creative director’s guidance— and that can be disconcerting (for those who prize evolution of a work), repellant (for those like Friede who dislike it), or a marvel of engineering that makes the work that much more intensely pleasant (for those like myself who love it).

    And this is simply beautiful: “…that cellophane-like, not-quite-tobacco note held steady just below immediate perception, and buzzed in my sinuses, not quite grabbing, but not letting go, either.”
    I'm really pleased by how people are getting things this time. Honestly, I think it's partly due to the fact that this is the third run, and people are finally getting bored with the questions about the project itself, and what the hell the fragrance is. Plus this is just a great example of an olfactory feature that people can sniff for and find, without all the attendant conspiracy theories that come from not actually finding it.

    One of the aromachemicals I love for this effect (though the effect being much more crude than S01E03 and far less enjoyable) is methyl nonyl ketone - that active ingredient of dog/cat repellents. I think it's used in a product called "Boundary". It has a too-fresh, raspy, dry, barely detectable spike of a scent that is slightly out of range of the human nose - and it functions very much in the same sense as a dog whistle (attractive - curiousity) or an ultrasonic anti-rodent device (repulsive). I used to love to watch the dog's face after laying down a demilitarized zone of the stuff, between her territory and my très chewable books. Alas, only she could enjoy the smell of victory.
    * * * *

  39. #99

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    I am tempted to say that it's a somewhat indescribable smell, but I think that may just be me. All things are subject to language, and thus I'm sure there is a vocabulary possible for this smell, and that many (especially perfumers) can describe it. The question is whether it's a widely shared describability, and I would say not so much. Woody, citrus, green and floral are easy to agree upon near their centers. Woody is a big dartboard that almost everybody agrees on. The class of smell that this belongs to is not so big.
    There seems to be consensus about the citrus peel top note, but I agree that nobody has really nailed the drydown. I described it as "woodsy" because, to me, it incorporates some of the scent of foliage, bark, and ground cover in a wooded area. It’s not the pure oak or pine note itself, but a mélange of notes. I don't really smell the cured-tobacco note that's been mentioned, and as an ex-smoker I'm probably overly fond of that smell and would notice it. I can picture one of the notes in the mélange being a cellophane note, although just one more piece of detritus on the forest floor.

  40. #100
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    There seems to be consensus about the citrus peel top note, but I agree that nobody has really nailed the drydown. I described it as "woodsy" because, to me, it incorporates some of the scent of foliage, bark, and ground cover in a wooded area. It’s not the pure oak or pine note itself, but a mélange of notes. I don't really smell the cured-tobacco note that's been mentioned, and as an ex-smoker I'm probably overly fond of that smell and would notice it. I can picture one of the notes in the mélange being a cellophane note, although just one more piece of detritus on the forest floor.
    What do you detect in the middle of it, if you factor out the citrus top and the woodsy base? What I'm getting at is - I'm supposing that what is left in the middle is the note with the tuning fork qualities. To me it's like the letter "vertical line" - which could be an i, or an l, or a 1, or an I, or a |. I'm sure that it has enough features to be roughly identifiable with something - even if just an aromachemical. I think rogalal is wondering the same thing - what is this thing? Perhaps it really just is an aromachemical trick, and giving it a note name is inherently wrong. But I'd like to get others' opinions first.
    * * * *

  41. #101

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Yep, Red, @heperd sent half of his bottle to me yesterday so I'm counting the days
    I will smell and analyse the best as I can (I wish I could run it through GC/MS but my boss would kill me LOL) and I will let others colleagues take a sniff as well.
    Methyl nonyl ketone is 'nasty', I mean to me it's a visceral 'no no' to my nose (maybe I was a cat or a bug in a former life LOL).

    1 question: where did Chandler engage, Red? On facebook?
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  42. #102
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    My stupid haven't-smelled-it-yet question: Is it Iso E Super?
    Has everyone checked out my Top 100 Blog??

  43. #103

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    My stupid haven't-smelled-it-yet question: Is it Iso E Super?
    Do you mean Methyl nonyl ketone? No Iso E super is 1-(2,3,8,8-tetramethyl-1,3,4,5,6,7-hexahydronaphthalen-2-yl)ethanone but has many other names:
    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1020611.html

    Another aromachem I don't like but appreciate

    The good news is that my nose can detect it very easy because I get an instant headache when smelling it

    Just like I can use my skin as an allergen detector: rash means it contains at least 1 of the 37 skin allergens I have been tested for. Who needs GC/MS right? LOL
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  44. #104
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Yep, Red, @heperd sent half of his bottle to me yesterday so I'm counting the days
    Cool! Hep is the man! He also got some off to Brian Chambers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    I will smell and analyse the best as I can (I wish I could run it through GC/MS but my boss would kill me LOL) and I will let others colleagues take a sniff as well.
    Yeah, don't get busted for feeding Chandler's nose dope to an innocent machine! (Although I'm sure those molecular ions would love to bank through some hard roller-coaster turns in the MS! )

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Methyl nonyl ketone is 'nasty', I mean to me it's a visceral 'no no' to my nose (maybe I was a cat or a bug in a former life LOL).
    Honestly, it doesn't smell any worse to me than the fresh facet of some of these woody ambers that are so popular now.

    Just sayin'!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    1 question: where did Chandler engage, Red? On facebook?
    Sort of on Facebook (since OpenSky seems to be some kind of Facebook spinoff) - here's the URL:

    https://opensky.com/chandlerburr/pro...-series-s01e03

    The price is now reset to $25. I'm debating between getting another 15-mL bottle or just waiting for the biggie.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    My stupid haven't-smelled-it-yet question: Is it Iso E Super?
    Oh - you mean the mystery note in S01E03?

    NO WAY!

    Iso E Super® is my secret GF. Nobody dare say anything bad about her! She's pernicious and penetrating - a total fatal attraction. The fat cells in my body are probably approaching Poivre Samarcande levels. I put an atomizer with some TDH parfum in my glasses case for a few days, and the odor of Iso has persisted for about a year now.

    Iso is penetrating and radiant in a whole 'nuther way. It's a subtle, insidious, woody subversion. It creeps under doors, clings to your hair (TDH shower gel is heavenly), and refuses to let go. It's as if somebody invented ambient civilization odor that smelled good.

    This seems like something else. Not sure what it is, but it's not my divine decalin diva, 1-(2,3,8,8-tetramethyl-1,3,4,5,6,7-hexahydronaphthalen-2-yl)ethanone. *swoon*
    Last edited by Redneck Perfumisto; 22nd August 2012 at 09:02 AM.
    * * * *

  45. #105

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    Iso E Super® is my secret GF. Nobody dare say anything bad about her! She's pernicious and penetrating - a total fatal attraction. The fat cells in my body are probably approaching Poivre Samarcande levels. I put an atomizer with some TDH parfum in my glasses case for a few days, and the odor of Iso has persisted for about a year now.

    Iso is penetrating and radiant in a whole 'nuther way. It's a subtle, insidious, woody subversion. It creeps under doors, clings to your hair (TDH shower gel is heavenly), and refuses to let go. It's as if somebody invented ambient civilization odor that smelled good.

    This seems like something else. Not sure what it is, but it's not my divine decalin diva, 1-(2,3,8,8-tetramethyl-1,3,4,5,6,7-hexahydronaphthalen-2-yl)ethanone. *swoon*
    LOL Red, sorry to insult her, I wouldn't dare LOL It's like a certain type of beautiful woman or model (the very skinny sleek anorexic looking ones), not my taste, but many fall head over heels with them I do however objectively see the perceived beauty.

    I wish I could find a GC/MS or any other analytical machine (maybe you know of one, Red?) that do what my scent receptors do when going all wacko of some chems *insert going wacko smiley*

    Will take a look at the OpenSky thingie, thank you kindly for pointing that to me. I am turning into this insatiable junky when it comes to this project (more wacko smilies LOL)
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  46. #106

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by lm6 View Post
    I would happily pay a higher amount ($150 or 200) if they were enrolling people in a "subscription service" for this project, 5ml per month or however it would be arranged (this is a learning experience, the volume of juice doesn't need to be vast). The project's concept is brilliant but the logistics and hassle of how ordering, sizing, pricing is setup is fairly rudimentary. If I involve myself in this project I want to immerse myself in the learning experience and be along for the whole ride, not just join in here or there whenever I have the money to drop or whenever it's not sold out. I don't fault CB for the logistics issues but I feel like such a brilliant project is being lost on many of us who view it as almost more of a hassle than it's worth.

    And charging more for niche automatically puts that thought into the participant's head too. If a perfume-of-the-month subscription type system was setup then you could pay the full amount at the start and the price of individual fragrances wouldn't become an issue to paint your imagination with the idea of designer vs niche. And that way you could also forget about trying to stay on top of the ball with the schedule and potential sold out issues. Just my 2c.
    Absolutely the most intelligent response to this thread. Please and Thank You!

  47. #107

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    What do you detect in the middle of it, if you factor out the citrus top and the woodsy base? What I'm getting at is - I'm supposing that what is left in the middle is the note with the tuning fork qualities. To me it's like the letter "vertical line" - which could be an i, or an l, or a 1, or an I, or a |. I'm sure that it has enough features to be roughly identifiable with something - even if just an aromachemical. I think rogalal is wondering the same thing - what is this thing? Perhaps it really just is an aromachemical trick, and giving it a note name is inherently wrong. But I'd like to get others' opinions first.
    Based on Chandler's comment about my post, the "tuning fork quality" isn't a note, its a characteristic of the whole, i.e. its unchanging persistence. Oh, and I don't know that there is a middle, a heart: just the top and then the abyss.

    As for the "is it Iso E Super®" comment, I have to admit that since my overdose, the thought has been running through my mind that this is somehow similar to my home-made "Molecule 01". (I bought a gram of Iso E Super® and diluted it.) Not identical, but reminiscent to me.

  48. #108

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    My stupid haven't-smelled-it-yet question: Is it Iso E Super?
    No, but the question is itself an excellent expression-- it's pretty clear from lots of comments here -- of peoples' perceptions of the aesthetics of the work, E03's unified, almost impenetrable surface, one that eschews nuance and texture for a perfect, polished surface, certainly beautiful in those terms-- but at that point one's subjective judgment of what beauty is kicks in and you decide whether this kind of subtle perfect sphere is to your taste or not.

  49. #109

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Here's my guess in Morse code: -.-. --- .-.. --- --. -. . -... .. --. .- .-. .- -.. .

    I'm not sure it's a great one since it was largely through process of elimination. I immediately thought I knew who was behind this scent, and a process of elimination lead me to the one that I've never bothered to smell. Possibly the only one of this perfumer's that I've never bothered to smell.

    I'll say that what I'm enjoying most about this is rather pedestrian. The mystery part is less interesting than the evasive descriptions. I love reading about the experience of a perfume from a less obvious vantage point. In particular, if it is this scent that I somehow always managed to overlook, it gives me a way in that I didn't have before. I often ask people to help me understand a scent or help me "find a way in." When they can impart their knowledge, it seems the love often follows. You don't have to rip the label off to express an appreciation of art, but it does seem to grease the rails. And the "expression" of art in this case is not just the fragrance but also the conversation that follows.

    Sometimes I think I might even prefer the conversation.

  50. #110

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Does anyone have this scent and smelled Thierry Mugler's Womanity? Not that I am guessing Womanity, I was just wondering if that is the same type of "tuning fork" scent? I'm not very familiar with the sensation.
    The question that women casually shopping for perfume ask more than any other is this: "What scent drives men wild?" After years of intense research, we know the definitive answer. It is bacon. Now, on to the far more interesting subject of perfume.
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  51. #111

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Windblownhair View Post
    Does anyone have this scent and smelled Thierry Mugler's Womanity? Not that I am guessing Womanity, I was just wondering if that is the same type of "tuning fork" scent? I'm not very familiar with the sensation.
    I have Womanity. I don't find any commonality between it and this scent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Chambers View Post
    Here's my guess in Morse code: -.-. --- .-.. --- --. -. . -... .. --. .- .-. .- -.. .
    I had to peek. I've never sampled that fragrance previously, but it seems like a good guess. It has me going back to look for the floral note.

  52. #112
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    LOL Red, sorry to insult her, I wouldn't dare LOL It's like a certain type of beautiful woman or model (the very skinny sleek anorexic looking ones), not my taste, but many fall head over heels with them I do however objectively see the perceived beauty.
    LOL! Iso E Super® - I can think of more than one perfumer who thinks she needs a cheeseburger!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    I wish I could find a GC/MS or any other analytical machine (maybe you know of one, Red?) that do what my scent receptors do when going all wacko of some chems *insert going wacko smiley*
    I have a book on electronic noses, but it's pre-Turin, so I don't even bother looking at it any more. DARPA will let us know when they've got something worth using to spin the civilian sector properly! *insert tinfoil hat smiley*

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Will take a look at the OpenSky thingie, thank you kindly for pointing that to me. I am turning into this insatiable junky when it comes to this project (more wacko smilies LOL)
    *borrowed wacko smilies from irina*

    Quote Originally Posted by thebeck View Post
    Absolutely the most intelligent response to this thread. Please and Thank You!
    I think Untitled v2.0 may be more like what you're hoping. But I also think a less committing 1.0 was probably the way to go, just to let people see what would happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    Based on Chandler's comment about my post, the "tuning fork quality" isn't a note, its a characteristic of the whole, i.e. its unchanging persistence. Oh, and I don't know that there is a middle, a heart: just the top and then the abyss.
    I agree that it's a characteristic, but I guess there is the idea being asked (not proven by any means) that the feature has an identifiable carrier. Perhaps not - or perhaps not even a valid question. The apple's curvature and its color are independent, although there is a relationship down underneath. Perhaps the science is in asking about their origins and relationship, and the art is in asking about other things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    As for the "is it Iso E Super®" comment, I have to admit that since my overdose, the thought has been running through my mind that this is somehow similar to my home-made "Molecule 01". (I bought a gram of Iso E Super® and diluted it.) Not identical, but reminiscent to me.
    Aesthetically, I can see the similarity, particularly in the subliminal, extraperceptive nature of the tuning-fork quality. It is in the small handle of an identifiable feature on Iso - it's penetratingly thin woody note - that I really think Iso differs. Which is not to say that the perfumers didn't somehow switch the tags!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by chandlerburr View Post
    No, but the question is itself an excellent expression-- it's pretty clear from lots of comments here -- of peoples' perceptions of the aesthetics of the work, E03's unified, almost impenetrable surface, one that eschews nuance and texture for a perfect, polished surface, certainly beautiful in those terms-- but at that point one's subjective judgment of what beauty is kicks in and you decide whether this kind of subtle perfect sphere is to your taste or not.
    Your use of spherical geometry to describe this feature is very helpful. I was using a variety of different geometric ideas to speculate about the science behind the art, and about the relationship to music, but when thinking about the feeling and impression of the art itself, the sphere really works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Chambers View Post
    Sometimes I think I might even prefer the conversation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Windblownhair View Post
    Does anyone have this scent and smelled Thierry Mugler's Womanity? Not that I am guessing Womanity, I was just wondering if that is the same type of "tuning fork" scent? I'm not very familiar with the sensation.
    If I remember womanity correctly, it does have a quality in the nose which feels like S01E03. There is a penetration like electricity which one feels in the nose, which is actually very compelling. The big difference is that, upon that surface, are strewn (with abandon and force) all sorts of figs, fish eggs, and bottles of classic perfume. The fish eggs, I cannot take. I loved womanity as art, but I despised it as something I could simply not bear to smell. I'm actually excited about the new leather version, because I think it may make womanity pleasing to me.
    * * * *

  53. #113

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Now that I've dialed down the dose, I'm loving S01E03. For comparison, I wore my Iso E Super/Molecule 01 clone today. It's lovely (compliments to Red on his choice of gf), but oh so thin! S01E03 isn't that anorexic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    If I remember womanity correctly, it does have a quality in the nose which feels like S01E03. There is a penetration like electricity which one feels in the nose, which is actually very compelling. The big difference is that, upon that surface, are strewn (with abandon and force) all sorts of figs, fish eggs, and bottles of classic perfume. The fish eggs, I cannot take. I loved womanity as art, but I despised it as something I could simply not bear to smell. I'm actually excited about the new leather version, because I think it may make womanity pleasing to me.
    I have a special place in my heart for fragrances that get compliments from strangers. There haven't been that many, but for me, Womanity is one.

  54. #114
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Chambers View Post
    Here's my guess in Morse code: -.-. --- .-.. --- --. -. . -... .. --. .- .-. .- -.. .
    As a confirmed old brass-pounder, I refuse to even glance at these dahs and dits until after my sample arrives !


    Edit:

    "Brass Pounder" : a term, probably from the very dawn of the telegraph era, that ham radio operators then continued to use for those who choose to send Morse code rather than use voice communication. It refers to one's hand "pounding" on the old hand-operated brass telegraph keys that operators used to send the code. Good brass pounders were said to "have a nice hand" if the rhythmic nature of the code they sent was pleasant to the ear.
    Last edited by Birdboy48; 23rd August 2012 at 09:15 PM.

  55. #115

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Brian, after we do the E03 reveal, do your Morse Code reveal.

    And not only do I not think that what you're enjoying is pedestrian, I think it's excellent: the mystery is an irrelevant byproduct of the experiment, the conversation its point. I agree completely with this: "I love reading about the experience of a perfume from a less obvious vantage point."

    And this: "You don't have to rip the label off to express an appreciation of art, but it does seem to grease the rails."

    And this: "And the 'expression' of art in this case is not just the fragrance but also the conversation that follows." The Untitled Series, for me in any case, is the conversation that follows the experience of a work of olfactory art. Just the conversation. Because the shackles on perfume -- and if the marketers were smarter they're realize that this applies with equal power to the product form of scent as well as to the art form; any movie marketer at Universal or DreamWorks could tell you the commercial/art distinction is actually fictional, and the better we can talk about a thing, the more we appreciate it -- is the lack of language. The language drought was brought home to me first by Luca Turin, it was made abundantly clear every day I was at the Times writing about scent, and the core mission of the Department of Olfactory Art is to apply the rich art historical vocabulary we have to scent. The last paragraph of "Emperor of Scent" was about language. Luca said,

    “My father always said if you translate a proverb from one language into another, you pass for a poet. The same for science. Work strictly within one area, and it’s diminishing returns, hard to make progress. But translate a concept from its field for use where it is unknown, and it is always fresh and powerful. In buying outside, you are doing intellectual arbitrage. The rate limiting step in this is your willingness to continuously translate, to force strange languages to be yours, to live in between, to be everywhere and nowhere.”

  56. #116

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by chandlerburr View Post
    Because the shackles on perfume -- is the lack of language.
    IMHO, the three most important people in developing a language with which to describe scent are (in the order in which I encountered them) Michael Edwards, Luca Turin, and Chandler Burr. Next we need to find ways teach it to our children like we teach them to describe colors, shapes and sounds.

    LOL at the opportune use of "shackles"
    Last edited by Perfume_Addict; 24th August 2012 at 12:28 AM.

  57. #117

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    IMHO, the three most important people in developing a language with which to describe scent are (in the order in which I encountered them) Michael Edwards, Luca Turin, and Chandler Burr. Next we need to find ways teach it to our children like we teach them to describe colors, shapes and sounds.
    One of my favorite things about vocalizing how we perceive scent is how interconnected it is with our other senses. A Ramon Monegal that makes my mouth water. A Thierry Mugler that gives me cold prickles down my spine. A Bond #9 that I can't always remember the exact scent for, but I can always remember tasting like syrup. A Moschino that almost lowers the temperature in the room. The perceptions have always been there, but not the conversation. I love hearing about how others perceive scent. Fascinating stuff.
    The question that women casually shopping for perfume ask more than any other is this: "What scent drives men wild?" After years of intense research, we know the definitive answer. It is bacon. Now, on to the far more interesting subject of perfume.
    ― Tania Sanchez, Perfumes: The Guide

  58. #118
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by chandlerburr View Post
    “My father always said if you translate a proverb from one language into another, you pass for a poet. The same for science. Work strictly within one area, and it’s diminishing returns, hard to make progress. But translate a concept from its field for use where it is unknown, and it is always fresh and powerful. In buying outside, you are doing intellectual arbitrage. The rate limiting step in this is your willingness to continuously translate, to force strange languages to be yours, to live in between, to be everywhere and nowhere.”
    To achieve what I believe is necessary for a true language of olfaction, I really wish there were an open-source repository of olfactory knowledge like arxiv. If you want something to happen, just create a frictionless path for it. With every olfactory receptor article costing me $30, it's easier to just say the hell with it. Although sometimes I can find an illegal copy in China.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    IMHO, the three most important people in developing a language with which to describe scent are (in the order in which I encountered them) Michael Edwards, Luca Turin, and Chandler Burr. Next we need to find ways teach it to our children like we teach them to describe colors, shapes and sounds.

    LOL at the opportune use of "shackles"
    I would love to see corny children's titles like "The Sniffiest Doggie" or "Chypre Charlene: Scent Detective". I'm sure that scented children's books would be terribly popular.

    Quote Originally Posted by Windblownhair View Post
    One of my favorite things about vocalizing how we perceive scent is how interconnected it is with our other senses. A Ramon Monegal that makes my mouth water. A Thierry Mugler that gives me cold prickles down my spine. A Bond #9 that I can't always remember the exact scent for, but I can always remember tasting like syrup. A Moschino that almost lowers the temperature in the room. The perceptions have always been there, but not the conversation. I love hearing about how others perceive scent. Fascinating stuff.
    Definitely. I think the real trick is to find ways to help each other smell things better, rather than just ourselves. Oddly, these very emotional images seem to work so well. I'm just not sure what that means.
    * * * *

  59. #119
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    On the subject of the language of describing perfume, I've said when it has come up before that I think there IS a language, it's just very technical. When you can strip away all the marketing and the emotion, it's just chemicals, and the people who have studied for years know what the chemicals smell like and what they do in mixes. Hence, they are able to speak to each other and collaborate. But, they have to study for years and then apprentice for even longer to become truly fluent.

    I think that's part of what makes this untitled series interesting, is that it takes away notions of "cheap" or "luxury" or "male" or "female" and forces us to try to explain what we smell without just regurgitating what the advertisements told us. I tend to go back to the technical, because I feel like I'm explaining myself better when I say that something smells like ambrox or hedione than I do when I say that something smells like a sphere, but the sphere analogy probably works better in terms of explaining how something smells if the person you're talking to doesn't know the chemicals. It's an interesting quandary.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also (drumroll please...), my sample just arrived (thank you!) and I've been wearing it all day.

    As for my emotional response, I kind of like it and kind of don't. Usually, the genre of bright citruses that go artificial and weird is one of my least favorite. Usually, I smell them as cheap failures at creating a vibrant realistic citrus, so it's interesting coming at this with a different prejudice: the artificiality is the "art", so study it with that in mind.

    I'm not sure I'm getting the tuning fork allusion - I can smell it changing as the citrus and other notes fade. To me, it's more fuzzy (in a comforting but chemical way) and bright neon orange. In my brain, it's not a shiny metallic sphere, it's this guy:



    He's kind of strange and not like anything natural, but he's bright and fuzzy and he just wants to hug. If you look too closely or think too much about him, he's kind of disconcerting and a little gross, but if you take him at his word, he's just fun and cheerful.
    Has everyone checked out my Top 100 Blog??

  60. #120

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    On the subject of the language of describing perfume, I've said when it has come up before that I think there IS a language, it's just very technical. When you can strip away all the marketing and the emotion, it's just chemicals, and the people who have studied for years know what the chemicals smell like and what they do in mixes. Hence, they are able to speak to each other and collaborate. But, they have to study for years and then apprentice for even longer to become truly fluent.

    I think that's part of what makes this untitled series interesting, is that it takes away notions of "cheap" or "luxury" or "male" or "female" and forces us to try to explain what we smell without just regurgitating what the advertisements told us. I tend to go back to the technical, because I feel like I'm explaining myself better when I say that something smells like ambrox or hedione than I do when I say that something smells like a sphere, but the sphere analogy probably works better in terms of explaining how something smells if the person you're talking to doesn't know the chemicals. It's an interesting quandary.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also (drumroll please...), my sample just arrived (thank you!) and I've been wearing it all day.

    As for my emotional response, I kind of like it and kind of don't. Usually, the genre of bright citruses that go artificial and weird is one of my least favorite. Usually, I smell them as cheap failures at creating a vibrant realistic citrus, so it's interesting coming at this with a different prejudice: the artificiality is the "art", so study it with that in mind.

    I'm not sure I'm getting the tuning fork allusion - I can smell it changing as the citrus and other notes fade. To me, it's more fuzzy (in a comforting but chemical way) and bright neon orange. In my brain, it's not a shiny metallic sphere, it's this guy:



    He's kind of strange and not like anything natural, but he's bright and fuzzy and he just wants to hug. If you look too closely or think too much about him, he's kind of disconcerting and a little gross, but if you take him at his word, he's just fun and cheerful.
    Haha as much as I enjoy reading technical language, your picture I get on a visceral level. He's creeping me out a bit. But he does look happy.
    The question that women casually shopping for perfume ask more than any other is this: "What scent drives men wild?" After years of intense research, we know the definitive answer. It is bacon. Now, on to the far more interesting subject of perfume.
    ― Tania Sanchez, Perfumes: The Guide

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Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000