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  1. #121
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    On the subject of the language of describing perfume, I've said when it has come up before that I think there IS a language, it's just very technical. When you can strip away all the marketing and the emotion, it's just chemicals, and the people who have studied for years know what the chemicals smell like and what they do in mixes. Hence, they are able to speak to each other and collaborate. But, they have to study for years and then apprentice for even longer to become truly fluent.

    I think that's part of what makes this untitled series interesting, is that it takes away notions of "cheap" or "luxury" or "male" or "female" and forces us to try to explain what we smell without just regurgitating what the advertisements told us. I tend to go back to the technical, because I feel like I'm explaining myself better when I say that something smells like ambrox or hedione than I do when I say that something smells like a sphere, but the sphere analogy probably works better in terms of explaining how something smells if the person you're talking to doesn't know the chemicals. It's an interesting quandary.
    I agree completely. Although I would say that the current technical language - chemistry - is a bad language (I say that as a chemist, so there are no hard feelings toward my intellectual wife of many years). Do you remember that Star Trek NG episode where Picard met the race which communicated by metaphor? That language is as touchingly bad as what we, the perfumistas, do. Perfumers, on the other hand, communicate (if I'm right in this analogy) by something akin to idioms and phrases, with some understanding of single words and the crap that is necessary to get them. (I suspect it's entirely analogous to the machinations that people have to do with larger constructs in programming to get smaller nuggets of desiderata.) I think we have to factor the bloody mess and extract the (probably) goofy alphabet. Even if the correlation of the letters to sounds is complex and unwieldy, I think that usable stuff can still be gotten to, once you fully understand the alphabet.

    But the technicality of developing written fragrance-music aside, I think that geometric descriptions and the like have just as much validity in fragrance as they do in music and (more easily, to our senses) visual arts. Curvature, linearity, and other mathematical entities are inherent to existence itself. They are the fallback choices for vocabulary in anything. They are also - very likely - preferable to component-speak for describing some macroscopic features, or commonalities of components which define classes and the like. But can we take them further? I really hope so. Part of that - the empirical part of finding the language - is discovering what works. We need to be extremely honest about things to make that happen. It is certain at the outset that not all aspects of language for other arts translate equally well to olfactory art. Terms like spherical and sinusoidal may make excellent sense for certain sensory phenomena. I would tend to raise an eyebrow at somebody describing a fragrance as rhomboid prismatic, without at least some context. Angular - no problem.
    * * * *

  2. #122
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    OK, and because I'm me, I'm really more comfortable talking technically, so here's my take on what it smelled like:

    First off, a shock of bright chemicals with just a pinch of that 90's peach smell, quickly settling into upfront oranges that are almost exaggeratedly juicy. Sniffing through my Perfumers Apprentice notes kit, I recognized a lot of Hedione, with both its disembodied chemical juiciness and its weird salty iodine heart. In untitled, at least for a moment, I could smell a rich layer of that weird whipped egg white smell of aldehydes, as well as the strangely comforting warm saltiness of calone. The only remotely-natural touchstone is a nondistinct woody smell, sort of like a thin artificial sandalwood thickly shellacked with these bright/eggy/salty chemicals and still quite fully coated with the lasting remnants of the citrus. Unlike everyone else, I'm getting a sense of development from this, mostly a long slow fade in prominence from the hyper-juicy oranges to the thin wood, while that chemical mix just kind of sits there.

    True to what Perfume_Addict said, the dosage has made quite a difference. I liked it best with one spray. The citrus stayed prominent longer. With a heavy application, the exaggerated citrus blew out my nose and all I really smelled was the thin wood and chemicals, but with a couple of off-notes thrown in that I didn't notice in a small dose (most notably a light touch of bile smell and a hint of that caustic-smelling aquatic note that reminds me of ammonia).
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  3. #123
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    OK, and because I'm me, I'm really more comfortable talking technically, so here's my take on what it smelled like:

    First off, a shock of bright chemicals with just a pinch of that 90's peach smell, quickly settling into upfront oranges that are almost exaggeratedly juicy. Sniffing through my Perfumers Apprentice notes kit, I recognized a lot of Hedione, with both its disembodied chemical juiciness and its weird salty iodine heart. In untitled, at least for a moment, I could smell a rich layer of that weird whipped egg white smell of aldehydes, as well as the strangely comforting warm saltiness of calone. The only remotely-natural touchstone is a nondistinct woody smell, sort of like a thin artificial sandalwood thickly shellacked with these bright/eggy/salty chemicals and still quite fully coated with the lasting remnants of the citrus. Unlike everyone else, I'm getting a sense of development from this, mostly a long slow fade in prominence from the hyper-juicy oranges to the thin wood, while that chemical mix just kind of sits there.

    True to what Perfume_Addict said, the dosage has made quite a difference. I liked it best with one spray. The citrus stayed prominent longer. With a heavy application, the exaggerated citrus blew out my nose and all I really smelled was the thin wood and chemicals, but with a couple of off-notes thrown in that I didn't notice in a small dose (most notably a light touch of bile smell and a hint of that caustic-smelling aquatic note that reminds me of ammonia).
    Great description - and especially the fact that you paired up your chemical assignments with the verbal descriptions of the aspects you smelled.

    I do get the fading aspect of it. Technically, it's development. But it's pretty threadbare development - kind of a linear downward fade from not much to nothing at all.

    Sounds like it's not Iso, either, though thin and woody in ways.

    But the million dollar question - do you get the tuning fork thing?
    * * * *

  4. #124
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    But the million dollar question - do you get the tuning fork thing?
    Um, kind of, but it's not a metaphor I necessarily agree with. I can see how that high-pitched chemical mix is a bit of a tone, but I don't visualize it as a tuning fork for two reasons. First, the focus, at least to me, was the unnaturally bright orange. Second, the "ping" was grounded in reality to me, so it felt like it was physical as opposed to a wave (how's that for a weird statement?).

    Another of my strange analogies: Have you ever bought furniture at Ikea? When you get it home and build it, it has a weird smell, some sort of chemical sealants and fire retardants permeating into cheap composite wood, while there's also the smell of metal dust. I see (this untitled scent) as eerie glowing hyper-oranges sitting on a new Ikea table. The focus for me are the oranges and wood, with those smells coming off the table contributing an awful lot, though not enough for me to focus on them. As such, the chemical "ping" isn't the focus to me, and it's not a sound as much as a manmade construct that's hidden in plain sight, realistic more than literal.
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  5. #125

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    @rogalal, you write beautifully and the pic is hilarious!

    As for perfume language, it is still tough one. I get the chemical talk, the perfumers talk and the perfumista talk, all to some extent, still learning.
    But the academical research on even linking language to scent, and the whole olfactory system, is still very young. Funny thing is that I might get the opportunity to play a part in some neuro-psychological research on olfactory pathways. Fascinating stuff!

    A few questions to the ones that smelt this creature: is it Ellena's work? (sounds like his)
    Is the tuning fork maybe just an analogy that describes the linear fade out?
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  6. #126
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    As an aside, I have at least a preliminary guess what this is. But, for the sake of this conversation, I think the actual guess is much less interesting than how I guessed it.

    It was emotional.

    I didn't smell the untitled perfume and say "this smells like xxxxxxxx". In fact, when I first sprayed it, I actually thought that it wasn't anything I'd smelled before. Instead, after walking around in it, visualizing a sense of fuzzy fluorescent orange (incidentally, I found that picture by googling "bright fuzzy orange"), it occurred to me that only one other perfume I'd ever smelled had that same visual emotion. So, I dug up a sample...

    Years ago, when I first decided to get into scents, I had a torrid infatuation with xxxxxxxxx. On paper at the store, I really loved the topnotes. That citrus that was so artificially jubilant as to be almost ecstatic had a hold on me and I couldn't resist sniffing it any time I could. When I finally got a sample and wore it properly a few times, I was disappointed that the exuberance didn't last very long and that what it dried down to was just sort of chemical. At the time, I was also obsessed with sampling citrus colognes, so I was in the process of learning that citruses should (at least classically speaking) be paired with herbal greens and other traditional cologne notes as opposed to thin chemically-treated wood. So, my crush on xxxxxxxxxx faded quickly and I hadn't really given it much thought until today, when I couldn't shake the idea of friendly fluorescent oranges that I got from untitled and wondered how it compared to my old friend xxxxxxxxxx.

    As for smell, they're certainly very close. They're a bit different, but only as much as the two different version of Mugler Cologne last month, where I remain convinced that most of the differences I perceived were tricks of the nose and loss of topnotes over time than actual formulaic differences.

    Anyway, for anyone who actually cares, my guess, also in morse code thanks to the magic of google:

    .... .- .--. .--. -.-- ..-. --- .-. -- . -.

    There are things Chandler has said that leads me to believe that this is probably wrong, but it's very close in terms of both smell and emotional response.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    A few questions to the ones that smelt this creature: is it Ellena's work? (sounds like his)
    Is the tuning fork maybe just an analogy that describes the linear fade out?
    As for Ellena, of course I have no idea, but I doubt it. Ellena has a very small palate that he has tightly honed over years of work. His orange always smells like his orange, whether it's Declaration, TDH, Bigarade Concentree, or Voyage d'Hermes. And this doesn't smell like his orange.

    As for the tuning fork analogy simply being a metaphor for a linear fade out, that seems like a strange aspect to focus on, especially when it's so common. If that is it, it could be an attempt to get us to see as art something that we snobs often see as "cheap", a scent that fades quickly without morphing into distinct basenotes.

    I suppose we won't know until more people smell it and put in their two cents...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Going back to the language of perfumes, this reminds me a lot of my work.

    In real life, I'm a sound engineer. Most of the people who hire me to polish and perfect their songs don't know all the technical terms. They'll say that the want something to sound "fatter" or "more metallic", which certainly aren't official, scientific terms. While other studio geeks will talk about compression ratios or milliseconds of delay, which are technically correct terms. So there's the official language of correct terms and an unofficial set of words that sort of convey what someone means, but are technically meaningless.

    But, all things considered, enough people say that they want their song to sound "brighter" or "wider" that most of us engineers know what they mean, so it's almost a second language that's less effective and not specific, but that still expresses the basic concepts.

    I think this may be a good analogy for perfume speak. As Irena said, there's perfumer talk (which I assume is a bunch of specifics about ingredient ratios and such) and perfumista talk (terms like "brightness" and "high-pitched" which are scientifically meaningless but whose definitions are at least mostly agreed upon enough that we can understand each other).

    So, do we need more terms that are technically meaningless but that we all agree on (like "mineralic" or "mulchy") or would we be better off getting to know our ingredients? I suppose that's the sort of thing a culture decides over time without really thinking about, honestly.

    Apropos of nothing, but in terms of missing language, I really wish someone somewhere would come up with terms for the three vastly different types of aquatics. There's the salty herbal kind, the cucumber/melon kind, and the metallic lavender Windex-smelling kind, and it kills me that these vastly different genres of perfume are all called the same thing...
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  7. #127

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    As Irena said, there's perfumer talk (which I assume is a bunch of specifics about ingredient ratios and such) and perfumista talk (terms like "brightness" and "high-pitched" which are scientifically meaningless but whose definitions are at least mostly agreed upon enough that we can understand each other).

    So, do we need more terms that are technically meaningless but that we all agree on (like "mineralic" or "mulchy") or would we be better off getting to know our ingredients? I suppose that's the sort of thing a culture decides over time without really thinking about, honestly.

    Apropos of nothing, but in terms of missing language, I really wish someone somewhere would come up with terms for the three vastly different types of aquatics. There's the salty herbal kind, the cucumber/melon kind, and the metallic lavender Windex-smelling kind, and it kills me that these vastly different genres of perfume are all called the same thing...
    The perfumers talk and perfumista talk is not so different. Most perfumers I know and in my perfumers training speak in 'olfactory', 'organoleptic' or 'odor profile' terms like: 'fresh', 'green', 'herbal', 'metalic', 'rosy' but also refer to specific ingredients like 'aldehydic' or 'indolic'. Other jargon tend more to technicalities that involve the chemical or psychical properties like 'diffusive' or 'ketone' or even simply 'big molecule'.

    Then you have the commercial briefs that often involve a mixture of perfumista talk and comparative and marketing talk like 'bright like Happy, fruity like Paris Hilton and with a powdery vintage drydown'. Or if it involves functional fragrance like a shampoo: 'scent must cling to hair and still be smelt after drying'. Or worse: 'something citrus-like for $1 a kilo'.

    As for the aquatics you mention, I would call salty herbal =aquatic fougere, cucumber/melon = 'calone-ic', windex = 'oxirane'.

    I remember a BN project (back when I was a fairly new member) that comprised of sending sniffing samples of different kind of fragrance materials to each other and describe them? 'Note project' or something like that? It was fun!

    ETA, here is the link to that project
    http://www.basenotes.net/forums/107-...te-Exploration
    Customized consultancy on perfume formulation, safety, training and marketing & olfactory research
    I also offer individual online personalised advice on perfume making to anyone eager to learn how to smell and design like a pro
    www.irinatudor.nl

    Social platform & research network on all things smelly, daily smelly science twitter feed @SomethingSmelly
    www.somethingsmelly.com


    THE thread for all newbies DIY fragrance

  8. #128

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    The way I interpreted the comment about a language for scent was common language. I don't think that would be the technical language whether your're talking about perfume or sound.

    I have always delighted in Luca Turin's scent descriptions as none others because he tends to describe scent through analogy, i.e. Talisman: "It triumphs where so many others failed, by associating fruity and candied notes over a base of honey and beeswax derived from masculine fragrances. The result has a disarming charm, that of the festival of July 14 at a village where the big attraction is a guest star with a fake English name 'and Her Orchestra', where where children who ought to go to bed soon run around under trees garlanded with Chinese lanterns. Where does this association come from? You can seek a long time without understanding and then one day it hits you. Talisman smells exactly like one of these small stores of the south of France where ripe fruit sits next to obscurely scented soaps, and whose perfume, halfway between appetizing and inedible, summarizes the holidays so well.. "

    People who have vast, detailed scent memories apart from perfumes and can recall the memories at will are terrific at describing fragrances.
    Last edited by Perfume_Addict; 25th August 2012 at 12:59 AM.

  9. #129

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Lucy: Aren't the clouds beautiful? They look like big balls of cotton. I could just lie here all day and watch them drift by. If you use your imagination, you can see lots of things in the cloud's formations. What do you think you see, Linus?
    Linus: Well, those clouds up there look to me look like the map of the British Honduras on the Caribbean. That cloud up there looks a little like the profile of Thomas Eakins, the famous painter and sculptor. And that group of clouds over there gives me the impression of the Stoning of Stephen. I can see the Apostle Paul standing there to one side.
    Lucy: Uh huh. That's very good. What do you see in the clouds, Charlie Brown?
    Charlie Brown: Well... I was going to say I saw a duckie and a horsie, but I changed my mind.

  10. #130

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by ROtto View Post
    Lucy: Aren't the clouds beautiful? They look like big balls of cotton. I could just lie here all day and watch them drift by. If you use your imagination, you can see lots of things in the cloud's formations. What do you think you see, Linus?
    Linus: Well, those clouds up there look to me look like the map of the British Honduras on the Caribbean. That cloud up there looks a little like the profile of Thomas Eakins, the famous painter and sculptor. And that group of clouds over there gives me the impression of the Stoning of Stephen. I can see the Apostle Paul standing there to one side.
    Lucy: Uh huh. That's very good. What do you see in the clouds, Charlie Brown?
    Charlie Brown: Well... I was going to say I saw a duckie and a horsie, but I changed my mind.
    So what are you saying, you think Luca Linus was a little full of himself
    Last edited by Perfume_Addict; 25th August 2012 at 12:45 AM.

  11. #131
    Basenotes Institution 30 Roses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    I'll want to wear this again but for now, let me just say, I applied ONE spray of this to my arm 26 hours ago and I can still smell it. A skin scent, of course, but it's still there.


  12. #132
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    Um, kind of, but it's not a metaphor I necessarily agree with. I can see how that high-pitched chemical mix is a bit of a tone, but I don't visualize it as a tuning fork for two reasons. First, the focus, at least to me, was the unnaturally bright orange. Second, the "ping" was grounded in reality to me, so it felt like it was physical as opposed to a wave (how's that for a weird statement?).
    Not weird at all - this was precisely what I was thinking might happen. If you know too much about the mechanical nature and construction of something, they become part of the story. The recognized medium becomes part of the message. The unfamiliar person can see only the form, and not the details of construction, which remain a mystery. The expert has to factor the construction out of their mind to see only the form.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    Another of my strange analogies: Have you ever bought furniture at Ikea? When you get it home and build it, it has a weird smell, some sort of chemical sealants and fire retardants permeating into cheap composite wood, while there's also the smell of metal dust. I see (this untitled scent) as eerie glowing hyper-oranges sitting on a new Ikea table. The focus for me are the oranges and wood, with those smells coming off the table contributing an awful lot, though not enough for me to focus on them. As such, the chemical "ping" isn't the focus to me, and it's not a sound as much as a manmade construct that's hidden in plain sight, realistic more than literal.
    Very cool. If I can say this with just a touch of humor and metaphor, I see the hyper-oranges at first, but I uncross my nasal eyes, and defocus on the hyper-oranges themselves, and then I can refocus on their sphericality and their sound.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    @rogalal, you write beautifully and the pic is hilarious!
    I agree. Even more than that, his nose is helping mine tremendously. I should be paying him to let me send him samples!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    As for perfume language, it is still tough one. I get the chemical talk, the perfumers talk and the perfumista talk, all to some extent, still learning.
    But the academical research on even linking language to scent, and the whole olfactory system, is still very young. Funny thing is that I might get the opportunity to play a part in some neuro-psychological research on olfactory pathways. Fascinating stuff!
    Very cool!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    A few questions to the ones that smelt this creature: is it Ellena's work? (sounds like his)
    I get the feeling that people would have been talking about this one a lot more if it were his. It would have pushed his boundaries in a way I would not have anticipated. So I am guessing no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Is the tuning fork maybe just an analogy that describes the linear fade out?
    I never thought of that aspect. I suppose that it's true as well, but for me, that's not what makes it a tuning fork.

    The tuning fork has the curious property of creating a buzz that is hard to attribute to any particular medium. Fingers on the rim of a glass, a buzzing reed, and some other things have the same quality. Moreover, it only fades out very slowly. If you look at the decline tangentially, it's basically flat, continuous, and unchanging. That's the tuning fork to me. The fade-out of this stuff is so slow, that it is very easy to see it as having a continuous and unchanging buzz.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    As an aside, I have at least a preliminary guess what this is. But, for the sake of this conversation, I think the actual guess is much less interesting than how I guessed it.

    It was emotional.

    I didn't smell the untitled perfume and say "this smells like xxxxxxxx". In fact, when I first sprayed it, I actually thought that it wasn't anything I'd smelled before. Instead, after walking around in it, visualizing a sense of fuzzy fluorescent orange (incidentally, I found that picture by googling "bright fuzzy orange"), it occurred to me that only one other perfume I'd ever smelled had that same visual emotion. So, I dug up a sample...

    Years ago, when I first decided to get into scents, I had a torrid infatuation with xxxxxxxxx. On paper at the store, I really loved the topnotes. That citrus that was so artificially jubilant as to be almost ecstatic had a hold on me and I couldn't resist sniffing it any time I could. When I finally got a sample and wore it properly a few times, I was disappointed that the exuberance didn't last very long and that what it dried down to was just sort of chemical. At the time, I was also obsessed with sampling citrus colognes, so I was in the process of learning that citruses should (at least classically speaking) be paired with herbal greens and other traditional cologne notes as opposed to thin chemically-treated wood. So, my crush on xxxxxxxxxx faded quickly and I hadn't really given it much thought until today, when I couldn't shake the idea of friendly fluorescent oranges that I got from untitled and wondered how it compared to my old friend xxxxxxxxxx.

    As for smell, they're certainly very close. They're a bit different, but only as much as the two different version of Mugler Cologne last month, where I remain convinced that most of the differences I perceived were tricks of the nose and loss of topnotes over time than actual formulaic differences.

    Anyway, for anyone who actually cares, my guess, also in morse code thanks to the magic of google:

    .... .- .--. .--. -.-- ..-. --- .-. -- . -.

    There are things Chandler has said that leads me to believe that this is probably wrong, but it's very close in terms of both smell and emotional response.

    - - - Updated - - -
    Very neat. I'm resisting looking at your guess as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    As for Ellena, of course I have no idea, but I doubt it. Ellena has a very small palate that he has tightly honed over years of work. His orange always smells like his orange, whether it's Declaration, TDH, Bigarade Concentree, or Voyage d'Hermes. And this doesn't smell like his orange.
    Great point! It really doesn't seem like his orange. His orange has a certain confidence, though not boisterous (TdH haters may disagree, but I still think so). This is like orange which is desperately trying to hide itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    As for the tuning fork analogy simply being a metaphor for a linear fade out, that seems like a strange aspect to focus on, especially when it's so common. If that is it, it could be an attempt to get us to see as art something that we snobs often see as "cheap", a scent that fades quickly without morphing into distinct basenotes.

    I suppose we won't know until more people smell it and put in their two cents...
    Interestingly, I think that one could talk about the relatively rapid fade-out of the easily observable orange as being a quickly dampened tuning fork. But I really think it's the buzz after that which he is after.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    Going back to the language of perfumes, this reminds me a lot of my work.

    In real life, I'm a sound engineer. Most of the people who hire me to polish and perfect their songs don't know all the technical terms. They'll say that the want something to sound "fatter" or "more metallic", which certainly aren't official, scientific terms. While other studio geeks will talk about compression ratios or milliseconds of delay, which are technically correct terms. So there's the official language of correct terms and an unofficial set of words that sort of convey what someone means, but are technically meaningless.

    But, all things considered, enough people say that they want their song to sound "brighter" or "wider" that most of us engineers know what they mean, so it's almost a second language that's less effective and not specific, but that still expresses the basic concepts.

    I think this may be a good analogy for perfume speak. As Irena said, there's perfumer talk (which I assume is a bunch of specifics about ingredient ratios and such) and perfumista talk (terms like "brightness" and "high-pitched" which are scientifically meaningless but whose definitions are at least mostly agreed upon enough that we can understand each other).

    So, do we need more terms that are technically meaningless but that we all agree on (like "mineralic" or "mulchy") or would we be better off getting to know our ingredients? I suppose that's the sort of thing a culture decides over time without really thinking about, honestly.

    Apropos of nothing, but in terms of missing language, I really wish someone somewhere would come up with terms for the three vastly different types of aquatics. There's the salty herbal kind, the cucumber/melon kind, and the metallic lavender Windex-smelling kind, and it kills me that these vastly different genres of perfume are all called the same thing...
    Great points. I think your analysis of the practical usability of even semi-dubious terms shows that commonality counts for quite a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    The perfumers talk and perfumista talk is not so different. Most perfumers I know and in my perfumers training speak in 'olfactory', 'organoleptic' or 'odor profile' terms like: 'fresh', 'green', 'herbal', 'metalic', 'rosy' but also refer to specific ingredients like 'aldehydic' or 'indolic'. Other jargon tend more to technicalities that involve the chemical or psychical properties like 'diffusive' or 'ketone' or even simply 'big molecule'.

    Then you have the commercial briefs that often involve a mixture of perfumista talk and comparative and marketing talk like 'bright like Happy, fruity like Paris Hilton and with a powdery vintage drydown'. Or if it involves functional fragrance like a shampoo: 'scent must cling to hair and still be smelt after drying'. Or worse: 'something citrus-like for $1 a kilo'.

    As for the aquatics you mention, I would call salty herbal =aquatic fougere, cucumber/melon = 'calone-ic', windex = 'oxirane'.

    I remember a BN project (back when I was a fairly new member) that comprised of sending sniffing samples of different kind of fragrance materials to each other and describe them? 'Note project' or something like that? It was fun!

    ETA, here is the link to that project
    http://www.basenotes.net/forums/107-...te-Exploration
    Very interesting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    The way I interpreted the comment about a language for scent was common language. I don't think that would be the technical language whether your're talking about perfume or sound.
    Agreed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    People who have vast, detailed scent memories apart from perfumes and can recall the memories at will are terrific at describing fragrances.
    Absolutely. Sometimes these metaphors seem very expensive to set up, but the power and precision of the final image is often startling.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROtto View Post
    Lucy: Aren't the clouds beautiful? They look like big balls of cotton. I could just lie here all day and watch them drift by. If you use your imagination, you can see lots of things in the cloud's formations. What do you think you see, Linus?
    Linus: Well, those clouds up there look to me look like the map of the British Honduras on the Caribbean. That cloud up there looks a little like the profile of Thomas Eakins, the famous painter and sculptor. And that group of clouds over there gives me the impression of the Stoning of Stephen. I can see the Apostle Paul standing there to one side.
    Lucy: Uh huh. That's very good. What do you see in the clouds, Charlie Brown?
    Charlie Brown: Well... I was going to say I saw a duckie and a horsie, but I changed my mind.
    LOL!

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    So what are you saying, you think Luca Linus was a little full of himself
    Well, after a Basenotes Makeover, I'm sure we could have Charlie Brown describing the landing ducks and charging horses in language so florid that Linus Luca himself would run away with his map over his head!

    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post
    I'll want to wear this again but for now, let me just say, I applied ONE spray of this to my arm 26 hours ago and I can still smell it. A skin scent, of course, but it's still there.
    Yes, this thing has legs. And one of the best ways to get the tuning fork thing is to smell the spray-head of the bottle (which, in your case, would translate to sniffing the top of the vial) after you've been testing this a while, and base has built up on the exterior. The perfumers clearly engineered that tonal quality to persist as long as possible.
    * * * *

  13. #133

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Ok I have to walk back my words a bit. In my earlier post I said I thought Chandler's verbal packaging was way off. After actually wearing E03 for a couple of days I actually am closer in alignment than I thought.

    If I'm going to use an analogy I see it like a fine crystal red wine glass; shiny, round, and when you flick it with a finger it gives off a sonorous tone that resonates.

    The citrus is the star here and it is what simultaneously gives the hard shell and the brightness to this. The tonal quality comes in the heart of this as there is an accord which buzzes at a low frequency with tobacco at its core. For the first time in this series it is not a fragrance I wear often and it is also why this time I am enjoying the experience more. Since it is not immediately recognizable I am spending time immersed in its qualities. This is a fragrance which definitely rewards this kind of study. I am particularly enjoying riding the buzz I feel in the middle part of E03's development.

    To whomever suggested this could be an Ellena the early going is very reminiscent of one he did before Hermes but I don't believe it is that one because I remember the rest of that fragrance very differently.

    As of right now I am just enjoying observing my metaphorical wine glass swirling and pinging.
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  14. #134

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    Anyway, for anyone who actually cares, my guess, also in morse code thanks to the magic of google:

    .... .- .--. .--. -.-- ..-. --- .-. -- . -.
    I decoded it and you surprised me quite a bit.
    I'm not testing it but if Chandler Burr is talking about xxxxxxxxxx like that... wow.
    Plus I think he said it's niche so it can't be that.
    Last edited by Suppressor; 25th August 2012 at 03:53 AM.

  15. #135

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville Metro Man View Post
    If I'm going to use an analogy I see it like a fine crystal red wine glass; shiny, round, and when you flick it with a finger it gives off a sonorous tone that resonates...As of right now I am just enjoying observing my metaphorical wine glass swirling and pinging.
    I'll take your analogy and run with it. Its a cocktail party in which guests are served Grand Marnier Fuzzy Navels, and then walk around the wood paneled library the rest of the evening playing with the empty snifter.
    Last edited by Perfume_Addict; 25th August 2012 at 04:27 AM.

  16. #136
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Suppressor View Post
    I decoded it and you surprised me quite a bit.
    I'm not testing it but if Chandler Burr is talking about xxxxxxxxxx like that... wow.
    Plus I think he said it's niche so it can't be that.
    Yeah, that's why I said that things he said about it make me think I must be wrong. But if that's not what it is, they're really close...

    Honestly, after reading this thread closley but not sniffing it, I assumed it would be either an Ellena like this or this. Or, if not that, one of the benchmark avante garde citrus-topped scents like this or this. But it's not, as far as I can tell. It's a whole different vibe, less Ellena, less avante garde and more "perfumey" chemicals.
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    Smile Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Okey Dokey, I just recieved my sample today.

    I've made a mindful point to not look at anything that's been written about it since people first received it. I'll post my impressions, and if they don't match the current consensus....well heck : emotional impressions are not supposed to be about consensus.

    So.... here goes :

    ...

    To my nose, this scent is nothing I would feel right calling unisex : it feels fully feminine to me.

    It does not have an overtly flirtatious feel but it certainly has heart. I picture an accomplished, worldly and mature woman with a history of successful and satisfying loves. Loves which may now be in the past, but which do not leave her without confidence in herself or her current place in the world.

    The fragrance opens with feelings of brightness it's true, but then transitions, like the telling of a story or the living of a life, into something quite different. Once the brightness passes, a distinct feeling of melancholy evolves, like the feelings a person gets at the first hints of Fall after one has only just begun to embrace Summer.

    Is the wearer a widow? If so, she is a reflective one, with a position in the present and a steady sense of the future, but not without a touch of regret over the passing of things that once were.

    ....

    OK then.

    To my mind this is no girly kind of frag, and despite it's citrusy opening, it does not feel the least bit jolly. Nor would I wear it anywhere except around myself. Quality juice, and in contrast to the first two, something that's not afraid to project a little. Our weather here just took that first semi-unsettling turn toward coolness, and that may have effected my sense of it I'll admit. At this point in time, it seems like the respectful choice for a mature yet worldly woman to wear to a funeral.

    Now that I've put all that on the line ( oh foolish me !) time to see what everyone else has said.

    And Morse code : I've known how to read it since I was 10.

    .
    Last edited by Birdboy48; 25th August 2012 at 04:54 AM.

  18. #138

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Ooh-ooh-ooooh! (waiving hand a la Horshack, RIP Ron Padillo)

    Does anyone smell a similarity to
    . .- ..- -.. . ... -- . .-. ...- . .. .-.. .-.. . ... , but with the pyramid right-side-up instead of up-side-down? I don't own this, but have . .-.. .. -..- .. .-. -.. . ... -- . .-. ...- . .. .-.. .-.. . ... , which is much sweeter. But S01E03 is really ringing the -- . .-. ...- . .. .-.. .-.. . ... bell in my memory.

    If I'm right, this was a great choice for an Untitled edition - I'm glad I had the chance to rediscover this.
    Last edited by Perfume_Addict; 25th August 2012 at 05:12 AM. Reason: removed spoiler

  19. #139
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post
    I'll want to wear this again but for now, let me just say, I applied ONE spray of this to my arm 26 hours ago and I can still smell it. A skin scent, of course, but it's still there.
    Yeah, I should clarify that 30 Roses is right and I was very wrong when I said this faded quickly. After 2 showers, I could still clearly smell a sort of sweet pleasant ammonia mixed with wood on my arm where I had sprayed the large amount.

    In music production, when you have a short, sharp noise followed by a long reverberation, we call that having a "long tail". Untitled has a very long tail.

    And just like that, I may have talked myself into acceptance of the tuning fork analogy...
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville Metro Man View Post
    If I'm going to use an analogy I see it like a fine crystal red wine glass; shiny, round, and when you flick it with a finger it gives off a sonorous tone that resonates.

    <snip>

    As of right now I am just enjoying observing my metaphorical wine glass swirling and pinging.
    Great to see you comment, Mark, and I totally agree. So much so, that I made a little demo of 4 different sizes and types of crystal wine glasses (or at least what I use for wine!)



    Click to hear: http://soundcloud.com/neil-sternberg...l-glasses-demo

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    Okey Dokey, I just recieved my sample today.

    I've made a mindful point to not look at anything that's been written about it since people first received it. I'll post my impressions, and if they don't match the current consensus....well heck : emotional impressions are not supposed to be about consensus.

    So.... here goes :

    ...

    To my nose, this scent is nothing I would feel right calling unisex : it feels fully feminine to me.

    It does not have an overtly flirtatious feel but it certainly has heart. I picture an accomplished, worldly and mature woman with a history of successful and satisfying loves. Loves which may now be in the past, but which do not leave her without confidence in herself or her current place in the world.

    The fragrance opens with feelings of brightness it's true, but then transitions, like the telling of a story or the living of a life, into something quite different. Once the brightness passes, a distinct feeling of melancholy evolves, like the feelings a person gets at the first hints of Fall after one has only just begun to embrace Summer.

    Is the wearer a widow? If so, she is a reflective one, with a position in the present and a steady sense of the future, but not without a touch of regret over the passing of things that once were.

    ....

    OK then.

    To my mind this is no girly kind of frag, and despite it's citrusy opening, it does not feel the least bit jolly. Nor would I wear it anywhere except around myself. Quality juice, and in contrast to the first two, something that's not afraid to project a little. Our weather here just took that first semi-unsettling turn toward coolness, and that may have effected my sense of it I'll admit. At this point in time, it seems like the respectful choice for a mature yet worldly woman to wear to a funeral.

    Now that I've put all that on the line ( oh foolish me !) time to see what everyone else has said.

    And Morse code : I've known how to read it since I was 10.

    .
    Honestly, when I read your description, it really fit the kind of woman I had imagined wearing this scent. I imagined something along the lines of....

    California widow of means and class - somewhat older than me - who was once married to somebody important. Travels happily and without fanfare, perhaps quietly waiting to join her husband, but she doesn't like to talk about religion, so nobody really knows. Doesn't need to speak - when anybody treats her in an undignified or disrespectful way, she can use a perfectly executed silence to get both an apology and remediation. Wise enough to know that she could use her money to insulate herself from such maltreatment, but sufficiently in love with the world not to do so. You might suspect all of this, seeing her on the park bench, or walking along the beach, but you would never know for sure. Still - in her own way - mysterious.
    * * * *

  21. #141

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    California widow of means and class - somewhat older than me - who was once married to somebody important. Travels happily and without fanfare, perhaps quietly waiting to join her husband...
    I don't think the woman wearing this would be quietly waiting. Its a pretty assertive fragrance.

  22. #142
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    I think it's fascinating that you guys all imagine this on a woman!

    If I had to try to fit Untitled into a traditional classification, I'd consider it a citrus aquatic (chemically-enhanced citrus morphing into a salty chemical stew with vaguely woody undertones). As such, I've been imagining it alongside scents like Erolfa or Aventus or even Bulgari Aqua pour Homme, fairly confidently on the masculine side of things.

    He he - that's all part of the mystery!
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  23. #143
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    I don't think the woman wearing this would be quietly waiting. Its a pretty assertive fragrance.
    LOL!

    I don't know - I guess it just seems different to us in that respect. Compared to the sort of things I wear that people notice, it really seems very subdued. It's actually quieter (to my nose) than a lot of my office scents, which are designed not to get too much notice. Persistent, yes. Penetrating, yes. But I just find it fairly quiet - or perhaps at most, whispering loudly. Humming. Buzzing. But just not that loudly.

    Only one time has anybody noticed it. I put it on my hand - big impressive spray - and when it opened up fully, about 5 or 10 minutes later, my wife noticed it, sitting right next to me. But that's it. I would actually put it at something like 3/10 for projection (to sound like a YouTube reviewer).

    Your sillage may vary, to borrow the phrase!

    However, with your word of caution, I'll be careful with the stuff. Clearly, some people smell it more strongly than I do!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    I think it's fascinating that you guys all imagine this on a woman!

    If I had to try to fit Untitled into a traditional classification, I'd consider it a citrus aquatic (chemically-enhanced citrus morphing into a salty chemical stew with vaguely woody undertones). As such, I've been imagining it alongside scents like Erolfa or Aventus or even Bulgari Aqua pour Homme, fairly confidently on the masculine side of things.

    He he - that's all part of the mystery!
    Interesting. I think it must be the "tonal" thing. As I said before, it's a bit like a chypre ghost note to me, and that note has always struck me as feminine. If I was experiencing it more like a pure citrus, I would probably be getting more in the way of unisex imagery. But this does smell slightly "feminine" to me.
    * * * *

  24. #144

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    However, with your word of caution, I'll be careful with the stuff. Clearly, some people smell it more strongly than I do!
    This fragrance does have a dog whistle aspect to it. There seems to be a large-molecule aromachemical in this that you can sort-of smell, but mostly seems to hover just above perceptibility, more like a glow than a smell.

  25. #145

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    Ooh-ooh-ooooh! (waiving hand a la Horshack, RIP Ron Padillo)

    Does anyone smell a similarity to
    . .- ..- -.. . ... -- . .-. ...- . .. .-.. .-.. . ... , but with the pyramid right-side-up instead of up-side-down? I don't own this, but have . .-.. .. -..- .. .-. -.. . ... -- . .-. ...- . .. .-.. .-.. . ... , which is much sweeter. But S01E03 is really ringing the -- . .-. ...- . .. .-.. .-.. . ... bell in my memory.

    If I'm right, this was a great choice for an Untitled edition - I'm glad I had the chance to rediscover this.
    I also get the same kind of vibe from E03 but without doing a direct comparison which I have tried not to do I don't think E03 is one of those. This was my guess what we were going to get from Chandler's verbal packaging prior to actually receiving E03 and I'm pretty sure it isn't this.

    For the first time in this project I really don't have a particularly strong feeling about what E03 is; instead I am spending time with it trying to see what the curator sees with it. That is allowing me to have a purer experience than I did with E01 and E02.
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  26. #146

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville Metro Man View Post
    I am spending time with it trying to see what the curator sees with it. That is allowing me to have a purer experience than I did with E01 and E02.
    I will be surprised if its not the first fragrance I listed above, but I did spend six days with it before making that connection. It fits the basic information we know (or suspect) about the scent: two perfumers, Jean Claude Ellena connection, matches most of the notes I smell.

    I'm glad I had that time to explore without the influence of reviews. Assuming I'm right, what I experienced is rather different than the predominant reviewer opinions, which focus on the marine aspects of the scent, while I don't experience it as marine, but more as wood and plant material after the citrus peel top note.

    Sadly, I wonder if I may be becoming anosmic to the citrus. When I sprayed it on my hand last night my nose went straight to the basenote, not percieving the citrus peel that I noticed in the first several wearings. I'll respray sometime today to see if I can detect it again.

  27. #147

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville Metro Man View Post
    instead I am spending time with it trying to see what the curator sees with it. That is allowing me to have a purer experience than I did with E01 and E02.
    I hope I do too, that is my goal anyways if my decant gets here in time before the reveal. @Heperd did tell me that is was a very expensive niche, so I do hope I'll come to appreciate it.

    Mostly I do wonder about the 'smart', 'humming' and 'scholar' aspects. It has been probably chosen by Burr because is a good example of particular perfume school or movement. Just like with any art, I do love to study 'artistic movements'.

    And Red, your posts always make me smile, thank you for the 'concert ' I particularly thought the sound of glass no 3 was the best description of what I imagine the radiating 'humming/buzzing' would sound like
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  28. #148
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Rogalal wrote :

    Also, no one is describing their emotional reactions, which everyone tried so hard to do last time... Thoughts??

    Red wrote:

    You're right about the emotional stuff. Not as much here. Why? VERY interesting question.
    I wrote about this earlier, I think, but as someone who spends a fair amount of time each day working with people who have mental health issues, and also trying to explain the complexities of these issues to their loved ones...well, when it comes to the matter of emotions and feelings, and our ability and willingness to connect with and express them, it's always an area of interest for me.

    I've certainly noticed the same thing : Although Chandler has been drumming away at this from the beginning, and the theme of the project seems to center on it, people do seem very reluctant to express the emotional vibe/story that they feel coming from these various samples.

    In contrast, this emotional story-telling aspect seems exactly what the fume promoters concentrate on in their ad campaigns. They strive to project the most appealing emotional vibe. Whether or not that vibe jibes with what the thing smells like once we get it in our hands is another story, but there's no doubt that their campaigns strive to set forward the very thing that so many of us here seem to shy away from.

    People are comfortable ferreting out the notes ( the types of things that people who care for each other are able to agree on ) and perhaps that's some of it : That as a community (which is what we are here) we strive to strengthen our connection through consensus-building and discovering things we can mutually agree on.

    But given the individualistic nature of emotional reactions, perhaps we worry that our emotions will be so different from those of the others that they might serve to erode that sense of shared community ?

    Ad to that the fact that...were we to see a picture or painting, and asked to describe our feelings...well, we'd all have the very same visuals to go on. We'd have confidence that all in our group would be at least be starting from a concrete shared set-point. Whereas with smell, that initial set-point is considerably more ephemeral and ambiguous. If we hope to preserve community, that sort of initial ambiguity provides a pretty tenuous starting point.

    From another angle, when it comes to the expression of emotions, people in our western culture may feel that in some sense it's socially unseemly to be giving away so much of our inner selves. The whole "too much information" thing.

    There's an interesting term in psychology : Alexithymia. From the Greek "A" = without. "Lexis" = words or language. "Thymia" = feelings.

    I don't think that's what we have here; it may relate more to the preservation of community theme, or the TMI thing.

    But it is interesting how we shy away from the very thing that the fume-pushers spend millions trying to cultivate.


    Dang, now that I've absorbed what everyone else has said about this juice, and dusted off my Morse code, perhaps it's time to give it a second wear.
    Last edited by Birdboy48; 25th August 2012 at 05:07 PM.

  29. #149
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by ROtto View Post
    This fragrance does have a dog whistle aspect to it. There seems to be a large-molecule aromachemical in this that you can sort-of smell, but mostly seems to hover just above perceptibility, more like a glow than a smell.
    It really does. I'm thinking that there has to be some amazing nugget of understanding of olfaction buried in this kind of phenomenon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville Metro Man View Post
    For the first time in this project I really don't have a particularly strong feeling about what E03 is; instead I am spending time with it trying to see what the curator sees with it. That is allowing me to have a purer experience than I did with E01 and E02.
    TOTALLY agreed. I'm really glad that this is happening. However, it makes me almost want to revisit the first two fragrances, somehow, to see if there is similar understanding possible. Perhaps for E01, but for E02, I would say we got hooched, and without solid juice, it was just a disconnect. Note to future projects: focus groups, even if it's just 5 people in the museum. My new mantra: fragrance is statistical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    I will be surprised if its not the first fragrance I listed above, but I did spend six days with it before making that connection. It fits the basic information we know (or suspect) about the scent: two perfumers, Jean Claude Ellena connection, matches most of the notes I smell.
    I may browse for an ID at this point. What you say sounds very interesting. I feel like I've gotten what I want from the "untitled" part of the process for this scent. And I do think I'll try to repeat that for future scents. If I'm not sure what it is, then I'm going to let sleeping dogs lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    I'm glad I had that time to explore without the influence of reviews. Assuming I'm right, what I experienced is rather different than the predominant reviewer opinions, which focus on the marine aspects of the scent, while I don't experience it as marine, but more as wood and plant material after the citrus peel top note.
    That's really interesting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    Sadly, I wonder if I may be becoming anosmic to the citrus. When I sprayed it on my hand last night my nose went straight to the basenote, not percieving the citrus peel that I noticed in the first several wearings. I'll respray sometime today to see if I can detect it again.
    I've been speculating that maybe the intent was actually for the citrus to be as unnoticed as possible. Perhaps you were actually a bit lucky in getting it as strongly as you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    And Red, your posts always make me smile, thank you for the 'concert ' I particularly thought the sound of glass no 3 was the best description of what I imagine the radiating 'humming/buzzing' would sound like
    Thanks! And that would be the taller, more conical glass. Which does have a very nice tinkle, and which always seems to get a smile from our guests when we pour!
    * * * *

  30. #150

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    Sadly, I wonder if I may be becoming anosmic to the citrus. When I sprayed it on my hand last night my nose went straight to the basenote, not percieving the citrus peel that I noticed in the first several wearings. I'll respray sometime today to see if I can detect it again.
    Citrus is back this morning. My nose must have been tired last night.

  31. #151

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    But it is interesting how we shy away from the very thing that the fume-pushers spend millions trying to cultivate.
    Imho there is a big difference between the perfume marketing/pushing artificial feelings and the feelings one gets when being exposed to art. The difference has to do with some visceral effect ('I feel it in my gut' or 'I love/hate it') which is opposed to ambiguity ('I don't know what/if I feel anything at all' or 'It's nice/okay/not my thing').

    So far I don't hear many visceral reactions on E03 while they were certainly there with E02, especially the watered down, weird, empty version.
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  32. #152

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    In untitled, at least for a moment, I could smell a rich layer of that weird whipped egg white smell of aldehydes,
    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    I think it's fascinating that you guys all imagine this on a woman!
    I put some on last night before going to bed and it was fairly strong this morning. This time I really noticed the aldehydes, which may account for the "feminine" aspect since ~50 years ago our mothers or grandmothers would wear aldehyde-heavy perfumes in extrait on special occasions. I guess it also accounts for why it smells somewhat metallic to me. I remember my mother's perfumes tasting more metallic than anything else (kids will try anything). Now I think of this as an updated version of Chanel #5, with the floral notes taken out of the middle and citrus added to the top.

  33. #153
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    I've certainly noticed the same thing : Although Chandler has been drumming away at this from the beginning, and the theme of the project seems to center on it, people do seem very reluctant to express the emotional vibe/story that they feel coming from these various samples.

    In contrast, this emotional story-telling aspect seems exactly what the fume promoters concentrate on in their ad campaigns. They strive to project the most appealing emotional vibe. Whether or not that vibe jibes with what the thing smells like once we get it in our hands is another story, but there's no doubt that their campaigns strive to set forward the very thing that so many of us here seem to shy away from.

    People are comfortable ferreting out the notes ( the types of things that people who care for each other are able to agree on ) and perhaps that's some of it : That as a community (which is what we are here) we strive to strengthen our connection through consensus-building and discovering things we can mutually agree on.

    But given the individualistic nature of emotional reactions, perhaps we worry that our emotions will be so different from those of the others that they might serve to erode that sense of shared community ?

    Ad to that the fact that...were we to see a picture or painting, and asked to describe our feelings...well, we'd all have the very same visuals to go on. We'd have confidence that all in our group would be at least be starting from a concrete shared set-point. Whereas with smell, that initial set-point is considerably more ephemeral and ambiguous. If we hope to preserve community, that sort of initial ambiguity provides a pretty tenuous starting point.

    From another angle, when it comes to the expression of emotions, people in our western culture may feel that in some sense it's socially unseemly to be giving away so much of our inner selves. The whole "too much information" thing.

    There's an interesting term in psychology : Alexithymia. From the Greek "A" = without. "Lexis" = words or language. "Thymia" = feelings.

    I don't think that's what we have here; it may relate more to the preservation of community theme, or the TMI thing.

    But it is interesting how we shy away from the very thing that the fume-pushers spend millions trying to cultivate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Imho there is a big difference between the perfume marketing/pushing artificial feelings and the feelings one gets when being exposed to art. The difference has to do with some visceral effect ('I feel it in my gut' or 'I love/hate it') which is opposed to ambiguity ('I don't know what/if I feel anything at all' or 'It's nice/okay/not my thing').

    So far I don't hear many visceral reactions on E03 while they were certainly there with E02, especially the watered down, weird, empty version.
    Emotional reaction to fragrance is a very personal thing. I think that we probably all (or maybe mostly) *do* it, but I think that people are reluctant to talk about it.

    I love to emote about fragrance, but I'm careful where I do it. Some people find it horribly goofy, and want to cringe and roll their eyes. For some posters, it can even be "ban-bait". My personal feeling is that - for myself - intensely personal reactions to fragrance should be off on a blog (even a BN blog), or somewhere like an MDM thread, where everybody agrees in advance to put half their deck out of reach (if it's actually there, for some of us). Personally, I think it's one of the best parts of fragrance. Some of my favorite memories when I started down this path, were some reviews I read by perfumista women, who spoke of their complex relationships with fragrances in terms of men from their past.

    The fact that fragrance can but does not necessarily speak to our souls, was made completely evident to me by E02. I was left hollow and void by the bad juice, but the store-bought good stuff, together with Chandler's imagery which matched it, really scored.

    To me, that is one more piece of evidence of the legitimacy of fragrance marketing per se. Not a carte blanche to behave as it wants to - just a reminder that it CAN actually help us react emotionally to a work. And it is also evidence that it is the inaccuracy and redundancy of perfume marketing which contributes so much to our disenchantment with it.

    There are a limited number of allowed mainstream fragrance marketing images. James Bond on the beach, James Bond in the evening, Bond girl on the beach, and Bond girl in the evening probably account for 40% of them. Add "sexy young things", celebrities, pretty woman in a dress in a field = romance, and a handful of others, and that's about it. Well - if all of your fragrances are trying to evoke the same things, then things might get a bit tight. Frankly, I wish they had some scents and images like "studious French brunette in a café", "old timer and dog on a country road", and "Scotch whiskey and moon over the stone fence". Well, they do - they're generally called niche. But it would be nicer, I think, to see the money and the marketing getting behind such things, instead of Yet Another Six-Pack Of Abs At The Ocean. Perhaps where the marketing went, the scent would follow. And at least we have some surfers now - that's progress, IMO.
    * * * *

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post

    I love to emote about fragrance, but I'm careful where I do it.... For some posters, it can even be "ban-bait". My personal feeling is that - for myself - intensely personal reactions to fragrance should be off on a blog (even a BN blog),
    Yes, I think that gets back to the idea that if people in a community disagree, it tends to be perceived, on some kind of a gut level, as disruptive to community cohesion.

    When I've moderated online mental health support groups, it's been notable that posts asking for opinions one way or another on a certain topic ( however innocent those questions or the actual topic may be) it can be viewed as inviting members to take sides. Which invariably ends up creating a sense of unease among the members.

    That may be what's behind your feelings that expressions of emotional material should take place in an isolated setting, where members understand ahead of time that such things may take place.

    Which is too bad, given that fragrances are inherently emotional things.

    And yeah, I can still smell this stuff this afternoon, even after yesterday's evening bath.
    Last edited by Birdboy48; 25th August 2012 at 09:12 PM.

  35. #155

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Interesting comments about art and emotion. Its a topic I have strong feelings about, LOL. A while back, while participating in a philosophy forum, I spent some time trying to come up with a definition of art that I could live with. What I came up with was "the creation of beauty through intelligence." To break it down, beauty exists in the world, but I don't think it can be called art unless it reflects a human creative influence (i.e. intelligence in my conception). In that forum, there was a lot of discussion of modern/post-modern "art" and whether it really is art. Some of it can be really ugly or mundane, and that sort of comes crashing up against my criteria that art is beauty...but not really, if you include an emotional reaction that is "beautiful." (Note that I'm not a scholar of aesthetics...I just know a lot of artists, and wanted to have a better way to understand art myself. There are probably better or more useful definitions out there, I just haven't seen them.)

    I mention this as a preface for the comment I wanted to make about emotional reactions to perfume (assuming it is art and not craft). I imagine the appreciation of "perfume art" splits along highbrow and lowbrow lines like any other art form. Is the fragrance the equivalent of a work by Thomas Kincade, for example, eliciting all sorts of maudlin emotions, or is it a more like Francis Bacon, whose paintings I find disturbing, frightening, and not beautiful. Or is it like Picasso, sometimes "pretty" sometimes not, but always beautiful. I have a feeling most mainstream fragrances, to the extent they aim to be artistic at all, are aiming to be "Painters of Light" like Kincade.

    I do find S01E03 beautiful, although I think it appeals more to my intellect than my emotions. So I haven't spent much time thinking about how it makes me feel.

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    Interesting comments about art and emotion. Its a topic I have strong feelings about, LOL. A while back, while participating in a philosophy forum, I spent some time trying to come up with a definition of art that I could live with. What I came up with was "the creation of beauty through intelligence." To break it down, beauty exists in the world, but I don't think it can be called art unless it reflects a human creative influence (i.e. intelligence in my conception). In that forum, there was a lot of discussion of modern/post-modern "art" and whether it really is art. Some of it can be really ugly or mundane, and that sort of comes crashing up against my criteria that art is beauty...but not really, if you include an emotional reaction that is "beautiful." (Note that I'm not a scholar of aesthetics...I just know a lot of artists, and wanted to have a better way to understand art myself. There are probably better or more useful definitions out there, I just haven't seen them.)

    I mention this as a preface for the comment I wanted to make about emotional reactions to perfume (assuming it is art and not craft). I imagine the appreciation of "perfume art" splits along highbrow and lowbrow lines like any other art form. Is the fragrance the equivalent of a work by Thomas Kincade, for example, eliciting all sorts of maudlin emotions, or is it a more like Francis Bacon, whose paintings I find disturbing, frightening, and not beautiful. Or is it like Picasso, sometimes "pretty" sometimes not, but always beautiful. I have a feeling most mainstream fragrances, to the extent they aim to be artistic at all, are aiming to be "Painters of Light" like Kincade.

    I do find S01E03 beautiful, although I think it appeals more to my intellect than my emotions. So I haven't spent much time thinking about how it makes me feel.
    Great thoughts! I have to crash now, so I don't have time to find an old discussion of art & fragrance here, but I think that the conclusions I came to myself left me with a definition of art that fits with yours but gets there in a different way (no scholar of aesthetics, either - mine was a bit geek-squad, actually).

    Joe Petrucci uses the Kincade metaphor all the time, and I think it's spot on (I like some of Kincade's work, so I'm not coming to the idea as a Kincade basher, but as a semi-admirer). Pleasing the masses with art isn't illegal. In fact, in my geeky way, I have no problem seeing art diluted or concentrated, but being present to a limited extent in almost everything. Modern ideas of quantization and digitalism don't negate continua, not least because the very things which give rise to them are continuous. Makes it kind of funny to talk about "background art" as if one were talking about background radiation or the famous microwave background, but I would say that art penetrates everything like a field, but it tends to be worth talking about only in the more discernible and extreme cases. The art of rocks before they're arranged in a zen garden is of interest only in a way which borders on (or perhaps is) zero. Who knows - maybe "potential art" has meaning, too.

    I've also not spent much time trying to let E03 get a hold of my emotions. Maybe later. I would not want to miss the chance.
    * * * *

  37. #157

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    (I like some of Kincade's work, so I'm not coming to the idea as a Kincade basher, but as a semi-admirer).
    And I've always liked Norman Rockwell's work - I could have used him as an example of populist/lowbrow art as well.

  38. #158

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    "the creation of beauty through intelligence."

    I imagine the appreciation of "perfume art" splits along highbrow and lowbrow lines like any other art form. Is the fragrance the equivalent of a work by Thomas Kincade, for example, eliciting all sorts of maudlin emotions, or is it a more like Francis Bacon, whose paintings I find disturbing, frightening, and not beautiful. Or is it like Picasso, sometimes "pretty" sometimes not, but always beautiful. I have a feeling most mainstream fragrances, to the extent they aim to be artistic at all, are aiming to be "Painters of Light" like Kincade.

    I do find S01E03 beautiful, although I think it appeals more to my intellect than my emotions. So I haven't spent much time thinking about how it makes me feel.
    Wonderful written, thank you for sharing! I'm a huge Francis Bacon appreciator and existentialism in general.
    And indeed Kincade's work makes me viscerally vomit LOL (sorry Kincade lovers!) That's why I think it's art. Same with commercial perfumes, some are art, some are just cheap reproductions, some are just plain kitsch.
    But in the end: I'd rather hate them, than just feel indifferent about them.

    Although thanks to being a perfumer in training, I can now respect any fragrance as being innocent and enjoy the parts, the art or the technical dissection.

    That's why I like Burr's project so much. It allows me to enjoy and make peace with all the different persona: the art lover, the perfumista, the perfumer, the chemist, the emotional gal, the academicus.

    And Red, it would awesome, wouldn't it, to have more perfume mass marketed as
    "studious French brunette in a café", "old timer and dog on a country road", and "Scotch whiskey and moon over the stone fence".
    What do y'all think that would be the best marketing image for E03?

    Rogalal's image of the funny crazy creepy fuzzy orange guy will stay with me forever

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    What do y'all think that would be the best marketing image for E03?

    Rogalal's image of the funny crazy creepy fuzzy orange guy will stay with me forever

    LMAO!

    The follow is taken from Art and the Internet (Volume 8: Fragrance)

    Figure 1: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    The "playing to empty chairs" quality of the fragrance, often referred to as "smelling niche", is clearly seen. Such subconscious representations of the diagnostic artistic aspects of fragrances are easily found by researchers.
    * * * *

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    LMAO!

    The follow is taken from Art and the Internet (Volume 8: Fragrance)

    Figure 1: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    The "playing to empty chairs" quality of the fragrance, often referred to as "smelling niche", is clearly seen. Such subconscious representations of the diagnostic artistic aspects of fragrances are easily found by researchers.
    HA! You're killing me!

  41. #161

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Damn Red, now I need to clean my keyboard
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    I had SE1E03 on my arm again today...I can't bring myself to do a full wearing.

    The orangey (or is it grapefruit and lemon?) top notes are pleasant, and I feel like there is something else there, something fruity and tropical. But then about 5 minutes in, if begins to remind me of Ivory soap (Ivory specifically), and at that point it starts to revolt me a bit.

    By the time the fragrance darkens, about 15-20 minutes in, I am really unhappy with the smell of it, and have to force myself to sniff. It's a bit boozy, and is that patchouli, or maybe saffron, that I smell? Possibly some carnation (or lavender) and rose, too? It becomes too sweet (it doesn't have to be very sweet to be too sweet for my taste.)

    After an hour or so it's a little powdery and even worse. This stage is utterly joyless for me.

    The long thin note at the end, that goes on and on...I don't know what that is, but I rather like it. Could it be cypress? That is the fragrances's best phase, for me. But it's too little, too late.

    I've lost the earlier impression that I've smelled this before.

    When I type in these notes in various combinations, the Directory gives me -.-. --- .-.. --- --. -. . / -.. ..- / -.... ---..
    But I don't think that is it-- I've smelled that, several years back, and SE1E03 doesn't fit my memory of it.

    But as to emotion, I think the person wearing this is a bit mixed up and doesn't know if they are happy or miserable-- or both!

    I don't think my nose is very good at this! But it was an interesting exercise, and thanks again to Redneck P. for the sample to test!


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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Hey everyone!

    Just some random thoughts as I catch up with the thread....

    For the untitled 2, my sample showed up literally the afternoon before the reveal, so I didn't really get the full effect of living with it for a while, doubting my guesses, and all that, so it's been interesting living with Untitled 3 for a while now.

    First off, I think I'm doing just about everything Red did with the last one. Simultaneously, I'm questioning whether or not my initial guess could be correct, while getting comfortable not caring if I know what it is or not.

    As I wear it more, I notice other little aspects peeking out. There's a subtle but dark green underside in the beginning under the chemically-enhanced oranges, like fusty basil or just a hint of a chypre base expressing itself quietly in the early stages of the scent before getting lost in the chemical haze. Sometimes, I even think I'm smelling powdery flowers. But the image I have most clearly is doing laundry, that point when you open the washer half way through to add the fabric softener and you get a huge whiff of steam and hot wet fabric and the dirt washed out of the dirty clothes, all presided over by the overwhelming chemical smell of hot detergent, its nose-tickling unpleasantness poorly masked by synthetic smells that we've been programmed to accept as "clean" but are mostly just sweet and vaguely caustic-smelling.

    As for expressing emotion about scents, while I'm not against it, I find that very few scents give me a truly emotional experience. Mostly, some smells or notes bring back nostalgia (remembering my grandmothers or a place from my travels). And that's about it. All the rest just strikes me as vaguely anthropomorphic - I don't see that much difference between thinking that lavender smells calm and thinking that a barbeque grill looks happy. Maybe I'm just not in tune with my visceral self. Truth be known, ever since I was a kid, when I encountered something I enjoyed, I've always mostly wanted to take it apart and figure out how it works, not revel in how it makes me feel. And I know that's how I treat perfume.

    As an aside, this has inspired me to go back and give more thought to other oranges-over-weirdness perfumes that I've quickly written off over the years. If nothing else, I appreciate this project for opening me back up to a genre I largely ignore.

    - - - Updated - - -



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post
    By the time the fragrance darkens, about 15-20 minutes in, I am really unhappy with the smell of it, and have to force myself to sniff. It's a bit boozy, and is that patchouli, or maybe saffron, that I smell? Possibly some carnation (or lavender) and rose, too? It becomes too sweet (it doesn't have to be very sweet to be too sweet for my taste.)

    When I type in these notes in various combinations, the Directory gives me -.-. --- .-.. --- --. -. . / -.. ..- / -.... ---..
    But I don't think that is it-- I've smelled that, several years back, and SE1E03 doesn't fit my memory of it.
    Now that you say it, I'm getting a stage in the middle that has the thin leathery feel of saffron, but as a very background note behind a metallic "woody amber" ammonia note. Today, I'm wearing 2 sprays and it's starting to smell very much like a fairly unimpressive mens designer scent (like an orangey Bleu de Chanel? {not a guess, just a description}) more than the creative ecstatic orange explosion that I got with only a single spray or the intriguing but weird chemical stew I got with many sprays.

    Oh, and your morse code guess is one of my favorites - this definitely is NOT that...
    Last edited by rogalal; 27th August 2012 at 06:30 AM.
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post

    Rogalal's image of the funny crazy creepy fuzzy orange guy will stay with me forever

    It ain't so much the orange part, as it is them big shoes that creeps me out !

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    As for expressing emotion about scents, while I'm not against it, I find that very few scents give me a truly emotional experience. Mostly, some smells or notes bring back nostalgia (remembering my grandmothers or a place from my travels). And that's about it. All the rest just strikes me as vaguely anthropomorphic - I don't see that much difference between thinking that lavender smells calm and thinking that a barbeque grill looks happy. Maybe I'm just not in tune with my visceral self. Truth be known, ever since I was a kid, when I encountered something I enjoyed, I've always mostly wanted to take it apart and figure out how it works, not revel in how it makes me feel. And I know that's how I treat perfume.
    Most scents don't give me the kind of self-perpetuating joy that runs away with itself, but I know that some will, and just that knowledge keeps me looking for the next fragrance to fall in love with.

    I was also mostly a tear-apart kid, too, though I was also very emotional. I suspect that Toxoplasma and the kind people who mitigated her side-effects, made me an adult who wants to feel things like a child again.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    Happy Grill makes me happy!
    * * * *

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post

    But as to emotion, I think the person wearing this is a bit mixed up and doesn't know if they are happy or miserable-- or both!
    Count me as one who feels the same way. It starts off sharp and cheery enough, but transitions to a sort of drawn-out resigned but dignified powdery melancholy to my mind. Once that heart phase has passed, the rest of it goes on forever ( and ever !) as a pleasant skin scent, but as you said, the main show seems to be over by then.

    To my own particular nose, that is.

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    Now that you say it, I'm getting a stage in the middle that has the thin leathery feel of saffron, ...
    Oh, and your morse code guess is one of my favorites - this definitely is NOT that...
    I never thought of saffron as leathery, but interestingly, there was a point early in its development where I was thinking of leather, before I started thinking of saffron. Leather didn't seem to be quite it.

    Also, thank goodness it isn't my (really, the Directory's) Morse code "guess", because I recall liking that scent and would have been disappointed to think my memory of it was so far off base.


  48. #168

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    Does anyone smell a similarity to . .- ..- -.. . ... -- . .-. ...- . .. .-.. .-.. . ... , but with the pyramid right-side-up instead of up-side-down?
    I no longer think this is what S01E03 is. In my defense, I made this connection on the day my nose was "tired" and wasn't picking up on the citrus top note anymore. I think the Untitled scent is warmer than the scent I named. And now I'll stop guessing and just enjoy.

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    I no longer think this is what S01E03 is. In my defense, I made this connection on the day my nose was "tired" and wasn't picking up on the citrus top note anymore. I think the Untitled scent is warmer than the scent I named. And now I'll stop guessing and just enjoy.
    I was just planning to stop by a store and sample your guess tomorrow. I've completely talked myself out of my first guess, also. I just have to get comfortable with not knowing. I suppose pretty much every perfume line out there has a citrus scent - we can't possibly know all of them. And if this turns out to be something I thought I knew, it'll make it all the more interesting.

    On another note, wearing Untitled again yesterday, I got all sorts of smells from it I had missed before. That "woody amber" mix of metallic lavender and ammonia/windex was unavoidable this time, and even more baffling, that mystery base that I had described as thin pale wood thickly shellacked with chemicals and remnants of the citrus top was very clearly and obviously a sweet fruity patchouli with some kind of sweet resin providing the illusion of citrus. Honestly, it blew my mind that I could have missed it the first few times I sampled this, because it was so obvious. It's like I was wearing a completely different perfume than I had the first times. I suppose I had gone in expecting an indescribable chemical smell and focused on that.

    In a way, having this many people study something so closely and discuss it at such lengths is even more misleading than marketing can ever be. We get a sort of group consensus, each of us giving opinions and adding our own influence, until we have an agreed-upon idea of what we're smelling, but by doing that, we're infusing the project with our prejudices and sometimes leading each other on wild goose chases.

    Interesting stuff...
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    ...was very clearly and obviously a sweet fruity patchouli with some kind of sweet resin providing the illusion of citrus. Honestly, it blew my mind that I could have missed it the first few times I sampled this, because it was so obvious. It's like I was wearing a completely different perfume than I had the first times. I suppose I had gone in expecting an indescribable chemical smell and focused on that...we're infusing the project with our prejudices and sometimes leading each other on wild goose chases.

    Interesting stuff...
    I'm almost embarrassed to make the comparison, but now the basenote is reminding me a little of RL Romance, and this, no doubt, is the patchouli note mixed with the woods and musk.

    This is also starting to feel like the blind men and the elephant story.
    Last edited by Perfume_Addict; 28th August 2012 at 03:02 AM.

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    The deeper I get into this, the more I appreciate how non-blind this really is. We might not know what it is or who made it, but there's still an awful lot of prejudice implicit in this project.

    The biggest one for me is "Chandler Burr says this is good". So I've dived in expecting some sort of stereotypical critic's darling, some sort of avante garde expression of difficult themes and expensive ingredients.

    As I've slowly gotten to know Untitled, I'm slowly peeling away those expectations and trying to dissect what's really in front of me, which has been an awful lot more difficult than I would have thought. Once I let go of my idea of what a "critically acclaimed" perfume should smell like, those otherworldly orange topnotes started smelling an awful lot like a Paris Hilton/Escada tutti frutti smell. Once it dries down to that aquatic-chemicals-meets-fruitchouli heart, it strikes me that I feel like I'm in Ralph Rocks or DKNY territory. That being said, it seems well put together, like when a good nose gets hired to do some dumb fruity floral flanker for some low-budget low-tier designer and the diffusion and longevity and concentration are good - it's just a common-smelling scent.

    As a cultural experiment, I'd love to see Chandler eventually release something that he thinks is utter crap as an Untitled, but complete with the artsy fartsy hoopla, just to see how we'd all react. How much time and effort would we all put into trying to appreciate some Bod body spray if we didn't know what it was and came into it prejudiced that it was worthy of time and study.
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  52. #172

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    As a cultural experiment, I'd love to see Chandler eventually release something that he thinks is utter crap as an Untitled, but complete with the artsy fartsy hoopla, just to see how we'd all react. How much time and effort would we all put into trying to appreciate some Bod body spray if we didn't know what it was and came into it prejudiced that it was worthy of time and study.
    I pride myself on being able to love lowly fragrances as easily as niche (I have, and wear, Elizabeth Taylor scents for heaven's sake) but I've come to the conclusion that IFRA standards have changed the game for newer fragrances. It used to be possible for an inexpensive fragrance to smell interesting, but I'm not sure it is anymore.

    Having a mass-market fragrance as an Untitled would be an interesting experiment only if you could include a pre-2000 launch in its original formulation. While there are plenty of expensive niche fragrances that might qualify as "utter crap," why give those the publicity or cash incumbent in being selected as an "Untitled"?

  53. #173
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    As a cultural experiment, I'd love to see Chandler eventually release something that he thinks is utter crap as an Untitled, but complete with the artsy fartsy hoopla, just to see how we'd all react. How much time and effort would we all put into trying to appreciate some Bod body spray if we didn't know what it was and came into it prejudiced that it was worthy of time and study.
    Well, if he gives us the scent of the original Clairol Herbal Essence shampoo, I'm going to call it genius. It was my first girlfriend's shampoo, but more than that, it changed the world for *everybody* back then. Is the study of shampoo history a valid sub-discipline of the fragrant arts?

    I'd like to think so - if we're truly being honest about art in fragrance.

    But I agree that if he dropped crap on us, it would be interesting. However, I think there are enough of us to do a proper WTF. Case in point - weak E02. Put enough noses on something, and the center of gravity becomes very penetrating in its analysis.
    * * * *

  54. #174

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    Well, if he gives us the scent of the original Clairol Herbal Essence shampoo, I'm going to call it genius. It was my first girlfriend's shampoo, but more than that, it changed the world for *everybody* back then. Is the study of shampoo history a valid sub-discipline of the fragrant arts?

    I'd like to think so - if we're truly being honest about art in fragrance.

    But I agree that if he dropped crap on us, it would be interesting. However, I think there are enough of us to do a proper WTF. Case in point - weak E02. Put enough noses on something, and the center of gravity becomes very penetrating in its analysis.
    I would by out open sky if they did that! I used Herbal Essence for years, despite the fact that it made my hair a bit frizzy. Still wear it if I'm going to braid away my frizz. Ha.

    The majority of the time, I feel like there is too much incidental fragrance - I don't want to smell my body wash, lotion, sunscreen, detergent on my clothes, and then a fragrance on top of that. But yummy smelling shampoos I can get behind.

    My husband uses American Crew, and I always loved the scent of it. A couple years ago they got smart and actually released a cologne. I so wish Herbal Essence do that!
    The question that women casually shopping for perfume ask more than any other is this: "What scent drives men wild?" After years of intense research, we know the definitive answer. It is bacon. Now, on to the far more interesting subject of perfume.
    ― Tania Sanchez, Perfumes: The Guide

  55. #175

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    The deeper I get into this, the more I appreciate how non-blind this really is. We might not know what it is or who made it, but there's still an awful lot of prejudice implicit in this project.
    I agree. That's why I'm looking forward to participate in the BN's "Blind sniffs 2012" project as those seem to be less prejudiced.

    On the other hand I must say I absolutely love to talk about this with you, guys. It gives me a nice comfy feeling of belonging while still being able to be cerebral and geeky about smelling. Especially the group dynamics that @Birdboy48 was writing about: maintaining group cohesion while outing different opinions.
    (and ever more especially nice as I didn't even get to do the blindfold thing yet)

    It is very special as far as internet talk goes.
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  56. #176
    rogalal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    ...I'm looking forward to participate in the BN's "Blind sniffs 2012" project as those seem to be less prejudiced.
    When I was a blind sniff contestant a couple of years ago, it was so much more difficult than I could have imagined. I didn't figure out any of them.

    Then, last year, I was the host of one and got to live my perfume dream: Secretly forcing a bunch of women to unknowingly walk around in Old Spice!
    Has everyone checked out my Top 100 Blog??

  57. #177
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    The deeper I get into this, the more I appreciate how non-blind this really is. We might not know what it is or who made it, but there's still an awful lot of prejudice implicit in this project.

    The biggest one for me is "Chandler Burr says this is good".
    I came at this the same way. I mean, the man runs a scent museum for crying out loud, and I believe I will be presented with selections that are museum-worthy.

    And that after my own assessment, I should find myself picking out the aspects that make them museum-worthy too.

    If somehow I don't feel that they are tuning-fork-like gems, then I should be as eloquent in my objections as Chandler is in his own supportive prose.

    So it's been refreshing to discover, with the help of all here, that I have a perfect right not to be bowled over, and not feel inadequate or lacking in good taste if I don't find myself impressed with the fragrance in the same ways as Chandler (who truly is much more of an expert than I am) is. The smell's the thing, and in the end it's not particularly important if I find it to be a masterpiece or not.

    But having the gang here for back-up is nice.

    I do like the part of this project where he asks for people's emotional reactions though. What the fragrance evokes in us.

    That's the area where everyone's reaction can be equally valid, expert or not.

    .
    Last edited by Birdboy48; 28th August 2012 at 03:25 PM.

  58. #178

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Windblownhair View Post
    The majority of the time, I feel like there is too much incidental fragrance - I don't want to smell my body wash, lotion, sunscreen, detergent on my clothes, and then a fragrance on top of that. But yummy smelling shampoos I can get behind.

    My husband uses American Crew, and I always loved the scent of it. A couple years ago they got smart and actually released a cologne. I so wish Herbal Essence do that!
    I started using unscented personal care products about the same time I became a full-fledged perfumista, so I don't have to deal with clashing scents. However, several years ago a encountered a massage oil whose scent I LOVED! I wrote to the company asking if I could obtain some of the fragrance oil, and got a very nice response from the owner of the (small) company explaining that he had been involved in developing that scent and loved it too. He sent me an ounce of the fragrance oil, and several other body products gratis. Its so nice to encounter people who enjoy scent as much as you do!

  59. #179

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    Then, last year, I was the host of one and got to live my perfume dream: Secretly forcing a bunch of women to unknowingly walk around in Old Spice!
    LOL you're evil I must say that hosting seems more fun than sniffing

    BIG NEWS: I received my decant!!!!

    So far I'm baffled as it smells soooo familiar, so easy going and so macrocyclic and yet I have no idea what it is, not the fragrance, nor the familiar musk *hanging head in shame* I think it might be a 'captive' mix, it breathes 'Givaudan' to me.

    I do think the top notes are from the less familiar citruses like litsea, lemon myrtle or cedrat. Imo there is no orange there, but might have some orange blossom (natural or synths). A very classical smart cologne with indeed the high buzzing note of a huge musk + indeed Iso E Super cos MAJOR headache upon just sniffing the cap of the atomizer. Probably some kephalis, hedione and isoraldeine too, major diffusive characters that may be responsible for some of the buzzing.

    The image that immediately pops into my head is 'Christian Grey', indeed from 'Fifty Shades of Grey':

    matt-bomer.jpg


    it's beautiful, cold, enigmatic and possessive with a dark past and a sadistic nature *insert whip smiliey*

    To be continued
    Customized consultancy on perfume formulation, safety, training and marketing & olfactory research
    I also offer individual online personalised advice on perfume making to anyone eager to learn how to smell and design like a pro
    www.irinatudor.nl

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  60. #180

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    BIG NEWS: I received my decant!!!!

    So far I'm baffled as it smells soooo familiar, so easy going and so macrocyclic and yet I have no idea what it is, not the fragrance, nor the familiar musk *hanging head in shame* I think it might be a 'captive' mix, it breathes 'Givaudan' to me.

    I do think the top notes are from the less familiar citruses like litsea, lemon myrtle or cedrat. Imo there is no orange there, but might have some orange blossom (natural or synths). A very classical smart cologne with indeed the high buzzing note of a huge musk + indeed Iso E Super cos MAJOR headache upon just sniffing the cap of the atomizer. Probably some kephalis, hedione and isoraldeine too, major diffusive characters that may be responsible for some of the buzzing.

    The image that immediately pops into my head is 'Christian Grey', indeed from 'Fifty Shades of Grey':

    matt-bomer.jpg


    it's beautiful, cold, enigmatic and possessive with a dark past and a sadistic nature *insert whip smiliey*

    To be continued
    Glad to have another opinion on this. It doesn't sound like you were surprised by how it smelled from the other comments, were you?

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