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  1. #91
    rogalal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Has everyone here tried Declaration? After the famous orange/cumin top burns off, I get a brilliant smell from it. When I was a kid, my mom used to let me do little art projects melting crayons on hot aluminum foil. It's a very unique smell, the hot thin metal and the molten wax. That's what Declaration's base smells like to me. But the genius is that the hot foil/wax smell actually smells a LOT like hot kisses on someone's neck.

    ROtto's quote "The smell is not really metallic, more like the smell of skin after you've licked it" reminds me of this clever dichotomy, how the smell of hot metal can smell so human.

    Is this sort of the smell?

    (Obviously, the mystery sample isn't Declaration - no one's talking about oranges and cumin - I just love it as an explanation of what I'm trying to ask about)

    (and thanks Red! You still have my info?)
    Has everyone checked out my Top 100 Blog??
    Currently wearing: Lys 41 by Le Labo

  2. #92
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Friede View Post
    ...but what's most present to me (and I'm practically live-spraying here) is that the point of origin seems unclear -- it's not hovering, it's not melding, it's... something else. It seems nonexistent as I type, but when I bring my arm up near my nose it is VERY present.
    Yes - I get this same quality. At times, I can detect it when the point of origin (my arm or hand) is far away - it comes through as an odd type of radiance, which is different from a normal sillage. What I mean by that is, that because it is so radiant/penetrating/light and not heavy/opaque/obvious/swirly, it doesn't really seem to have a direction or gradient, in the same way that the sillage of heavy scents does.

    The "tone" seems to grow in volume (as in decibels) when I move the source closer, but the experience is very much like a sound, or a vibration, and not as much like a smell. I really find it odd.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    Has everyone here tried Declaration? After the famous orange/cumin top burns off, I get a brilliant smell from it. When I was a kid, my mom used to let me do little art projects melting crayons on hot aluminum foil. It's a very unique smell, the hot thin metal and the molten wax. That's what Declaration's base smells like to me. But the genius is that the hot foil/wax smell actually smells a LOT like hot kisses on someone's neck.

    ROtto's quote "The smell is not really metallic, more like the smell of skin after you've licked it" reminds me of this clever dichotomy, how the smell of hot metal can smell so human.

    Is this sort of the smell?

    (Obviously, the mystery sample isn't Declaration - no one's talking about oranges and cumin - I just love it as an explanation of what I'm trying to ask about)

    (and thanks Red! You still have my info?)
    I will try to sniff Declaration. I agree - I don't think that's what this is, because I get a strong TdH vibe from Declaration, which I do not here, but it's worth seeing if there is any similarity in the brilliant thing you're mentioning. But yes - it is definitely a sort of piercing "sharp-but-not-painful-or-cringeable" thing. The tuning fork analogy remains perfect in terms of "sharpness" as well.

    Your sample is already in the mail, Allen! I got 4 samples off this morning. Birdboy, 30 Roses, and SOS will be getting some as well. I'll have to buy another bottle, because I'm already running low.

    Still haven't bugged my son to give me the Cliff Notes explanation of tonality, but perhaps tonight!
    * * * *

  3. #93

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    I wore S01E03 again today, and unfortunately applied a bit too much and didn't enjoy it. I think I've finally discovered its "tuning fork" characteristic. Its unrelenting and unchanging as you wear it (once the citrus peel top note wears off.)

  4. #94

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    I wore S01E03 again today, and unfortunately applied a bit too much and didn't enjoy it. I think I've finally discovered its "tuning fork" characteristic. Its unrelenting and unchanging as you wear it (once the citrus peel top note wears off.)
    I oversprayed later too (and by "oversprayed" I mean "two sprays") and the while I could not say it *smelled* bad to me, it disconcerted me on a register below/beyond my ability to locate what repelled me. This was also true in the drydown of the first wearing -- that cellophane-like, not-quite-tobacco note held steady just below immediate perception, and buzzed in my sinuses, not quite grabbing, but not letting go, either.

    I have to say, as a potentially $50 experience it would have really bugged me how very little I like this (and not just "dislike" but actively find disconcerting to wear), but as a $25 (well, and with my credits, ultimately $12) learning experience, I am fascinated, and am glad to have this in my "files" for future course materials.
    Read something old and smelly? Come across an interesting historical reference to smell? Contact me!

  5. #95
    rogalal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    It's interesting that, aside from "cellophane and light cigarettes" and "skin after you've licked it", no one has really described what the actual smell is. Is it so completely outside of normal that it doesn't remind anyone of anything they've smelled? It sounds like it has an "Ellena vibe" in the sense that he can put together almost indescribable smells that hover around the body in ways that other perfumes don't.

    Also, no one is describing their emotional reactions, which everyone tried so hard to do last time... Thoughts??

    (also, thank you Red! Please make sure your wardrobe is updated)

    - - - Updated - - -

    And, because it's the middle of the night and I have nothing better to do, a little discussion of tone versus tonality. I've been a music guy for many years, and here's a very simplified version of how I think about it:

    Every traditional western song is in a key. Say it's in the key of C major. There's a scale of notes (a C major scale - C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C) that corresponds to that key and contains all the notes you're supposed to use. Those are the accepted tonalities. All the notes used in the song should be accepted tonalities that correspond to the key that the song is in, meaning that something like an F# major chord in a song in the key of C would sound very out of place because it's made of the wrong notes (of course, this only really applies to rather simple old-world songwriting - complex classical songs used notes that didn't correspond, and jazz almost completely broke us away from this, opening the doors to much modern music breaking these rules).

    However, there's totally different meaning of "tonal" in music, too, the use of tonal chords. In a weird way, it means the opposite of what I just said - it's where you always play a specific kind of chord (major, minor, etc), even if it means that some of the notes you play are outside of what's considered acceptable for the key the song is in. It's a jazz thing, but has spread to popular music, especially techno. That being said, there isn't as much of a tone/tonal juxtaposition in this definition (and it implies supporting notes that make no sense but somehow work, which is an interesting perfume concept, but not what I think Chandler was going for).

    I think a more apt explanation is color. Here's a pure tone, in this case red (yes, pun intended):



    Here are a bunch of shades that correspond to red. When you see this, you think "red" even though most of it technically isn't red - in other words, it's a bunch of tonalities of red:



    My take on Chandler's comment that sample 1 (Infusion d'Iris) was tonal is that the main tone is the iris, but it's a complex smell wherein everything there (soap, powder, vague woods, etc) support and imply iris the same way all the shades of red in the second picture support and imply the color red. They're not all iris, but they support the iris, building up a tonality of iris the same way the second picture builds up a tonality of red.

    So, that brings us to sample 3 and his insistence that it's a single tone. Does he mean that it's just one ingredient? Or (more likely) that it's a mix of ingredients so seamless and unwavering that the mix itself is the tone (imagine a wall painted a grey-green color made by mixing a lot of other colors, but the end result is just one tone)?

    So, does it just broadcast out a single, unsupported, unwavering smell? Is that even a good thing?
    Has everyone checked out my Top 100 Blog??
    Currently wearing: Lys 41 by Le Labo

  6. #96

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Love your explanation @rogalal, thank you for sharing! It reminds me of the work of one of my favorite abstract painters Ad Reinhardt. His black paintings are just that 1 tone: black but painted with so many different shades of black (he also did blue, red and green).
    So maybe E03 is 'fifty shades of space' ? LOL

    And I agree, I'd love to hear more about the feeling that E03 invokes when smelt.
    @SomethingSmelly

  7. #97

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Hi everyone. First, I'm truly sorry for the mess. Second, I've just spent an hour reading the comments here, and they're terrific.

    As I just said on Katie's blog, I'm on vacation with my extended family where cell service is semi-existent and internet sparse, and the only reason I heard about the screw-up of the 15mls' being sent instead of the 30mls is that Katie sent me a WTF heads up and I happened to check my email.

    The fact is that we're still in shakedown cruise on the logistics of this experiment. OpenSky has systems that work great for other goods but not yet for perfumes, partic those in lab bottles. I've proposed something that is outside norms for all the companies involved, which has created these delays and mistakes.

    As for the Basenotes conversation, Perfume_Addict's comment, which is terrific, is the reason that I love doing this. “I think I've finally discovered its ‘tuning fork’ characteristic. It’s unrelenting and unchanging as you wear it.” That is—exactly—what I meant to convey. Friede’s response is very interesting too. “[W]hile I could not say it *smelled* bad to me, it disconcerted me on a register below/beyond my ability to locate what repelled me.” E03 is one of the most unchanging of scents— a testimony to the technical precision of the two artists who created it under the creative director’s guidance— and that can be disconcerting (for those who prize evolution of a work), repellant (for those like Friede who dislike it), or a marvel of engineering that makes the work that much more intensely pleasant (for those like myself who love it).

    And this is simply beautiful: “…that cellophane-like, not-quite-tobacco note held steady just below immediate perception, and buzzed in my sinuses, not quite grabbing, but not letting go, either.”

  8. #98
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    It's interesting that, aside from "cellophane and light cigarettes" and "skin after you've licked it", no one has really described what the actual smell is. Is it so completely outside of normal that it doesn't remind anyone of anything they've smelled? It sounds like it has an "Ellena vibe" in the sense that he can put together almost indescribable smells that hover around the body in ways that other perfumes don't.

    Also, no one is describing their emotional reactions, which everyone tried so hard to do last time... Thoughts??

    (also, thank you Red! Please make sure your wardrobe is updated)

    ...[great explanation snipped]....
    I am tempted to say that it's a somewhat indescribable smell, but I think that may just be me. All things are subject to language, and thus I'm sure there is a vocabulary possible for this smell, and that many (especially perfumers) can describe it. The question is whether it's a widely shared describability, and I would say not so much. Woody, citrus, green and floral are easy to agree upon near their centers. Woody is a big dartboard that almost everybody agrees on. The class of smell that this belongs to is not so big.

    That's part of the reason I used the "ghost note" analogy. To me, it's not a very easily identifiable odor. Perhaps that's a bit of a cop-out, but visually I think it's somewhat analogous to colors of metals. We have words for metal colors that are basically the metals themselves. Why? Because metals seem to lack the same characteristics of absorption that lend themselves to description of the color of normal objects. Woody is brown, rose is red, and vegetal is green, because we can do easy mappings of certain recognizable olfactory patterns to corresponding colors, and they're intellectually and emotionally satisfying. But what colors are "metallic", "ozonic", and "fresh"? I tend to think that certain sharp odors don't really pattern-match in normal ways, and that they are therefore analogous to fairly pure tones created by, e.g., tuning forks.

    You're right about the emotional stuff. Not as much here. Why? VERY interesting question. Perhaps this is a very technical fragrance, and you have to find a very special way to "love" it. There's also not much that's identifiable here. There's not so much "story". Fragrance leading to emotional reactions is a really interesting phenomenon, where little twists in the path of the butterfly not only lead to larger effects in the unfolding world, but seem to do so repeatedly and reliably. Thus, the more you put in the right micro-incentives, the more you tip the balance toward certain macroscopic patterns. The fact that flowers generate chemical attractants that larger and self-styled intelligent plant parasites then use in mimicry to similar effect - kind of a neat pattern. But when those plant parasites create things beyond nature - what then?

    The two fragrances that I think are somewhat similar to this, use the tonal effect by adding more to it, amping up the tone to a much greater volume (loudness) than in E03, and thereby tipping the emotional scales toward the desired briefs. Knowing the briefs/backstories for those fragrances, I can say that the use of this sort of "unrelenting tone" can, indeed, carry some emotional weight. I - personally - think that those two fragrances are also works of art for living up to their briefs so well. I don't want to mention the fragrances now, but perhaps later.

    Can I get emotional about this fragrance - even without a backstory, or other marketing cues? Yes, but let's be honest - I'm a perfume nut. I actually have a bunch of little stories that I think about when I smell S01E03, which kind of go with the music on the TV right now (woodwinds, baby animals, nature documentary), but then that's just how my broken brain works. I sometimes like to freak out normal people by telling them about the time I had an erotic dream centered on a *sound*. It was a tone, and it was deeply erotic. Not after I woke up, but in my dream..... grrrrrrrrr. Kinda freaky. I'll try to let my emotions go on this one later. (I did a story about my feelings brought out by vintage/full-strength Mugler Cologne earlier - I just haven't put it up on my blog yet.)

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    My take on Chandler's comment that sample 1 (Infusion d'Iris) was tonal is that the main tone is the iris, but it's a complex smell wherein everything there (soap, powder, vague woods, etc) support and imply iris the same way all the shades of red in the second picture support and imply the color red. They're not all iris, but they support the iris, building up a tonality of iris the same way the second picture builds up a tonality of red.

    So, that brings us to sample 3 and his insistence that it's a single tone. Does he mean that it's just one ingredient? Or (more likely) that it's a mix of ingredients so seamless and unwavering that the mix itself is the tone (imagine a wall painted a grey-green color made by mixing a lot of other colors, but the end result is just one tone)?

    So, does it just broadcast out a single, unsupported, unwavering smell? Is that even a good thing?
    That is a great question. I would say that it's probably not a single ingredient making the "tone or tones". But it may be one ingredient's sharp peak being used as the tone, with other ingredients being used to mask or smooth out other aspects of that ingredient to sharpen it up. Perfumers' secret, I guess, unless they want to spill. Maybe Irina can shed some light on it.

    In any case, there is a strong and very thin, tall signal with a very high signal-to-noise ratio. The question to me is whether the signal is one "frequency" or several, possibly in some kind of harmony. I'm not getting my usual "harmonic buzz" sensation from this, which I do from some chypres, but that may be for different reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Love your explanation @rogalal, thank you for sharing! It reminds me of the work of one of my favorite abstract painters Ad Reinhardt. His black paintings are just that 1 tone: black but painted with so many different shades of black (he also did blue, red and green).
    So maybe E03 is 'fifty shades of space' ? LOL

    And I agree, I'd love to hear more about the feeling that E03 invokes when smelt.
    Looking forward to when you sniff this! Do you have a sample coming for sure?

    Quote Originally Posted by chandlerburr View Post
    The fact is that we're still in shakedown cruise on the logistics of this experiment.
    I would say that we've managed to get past our "Costa Concordia moment" relatively unscathed!

    Quote Originally Posted by chandlerburr View Post
    As for the Basenotes conversation, Perfume_Addict's comment, which is terrific, is the reason that I love doing this. “I think I've finally discovered its ‘tuning fork’ characteristic. It’s unrelenting and unchanging as you wear it.” That is—exactly—what I meant to convey. Friede’s response is very interesting too. “[W]hile I could not say it *smelled* bad to me, it disconcerted me on a register below/beyond my ability to locate what repelled me.” E03 is one of the most unchanging of scents— a testimony to the technical precision of the two artists who created it under the creative director’s guidance— and that can be disconcerting (for those who prize evolution of a work), repellant (for those like Friede who dislike it), or a marvel of engineering that makes the work that much more intensely pleasant (for those like myself who love it).

    And this is simply beautiful: “…that cellophane-like, not-quite-tobacco note held steady just below immediate perception, and buzzed in my sinuses, not quite grabbing, but not letting go, either.”
    I'm really pleased by how people are getting things this time. Honestly, I think it's partly due to the fact that this is the third run, and people are finally getting bored with the questions about the project itself, and what the hell the fragrance is. Plus this is just a great example of an olfactory feature that people can sniff for and find, without all the attendant conspiracy theories that come from not actually finding it.

    One of the aromachemicals I love for this effect (though the effect being much more crude than S01E03 and far less enjoyable) is methyl nonyl ketone - that active ingredient of dog/cat repellents. I think it's used in a product called "Boundary". It has a too-fresh, raspy, dry, barely detectable spike of a scent that is slightly out of range of the human nose - and it functions very much in the same sense as a dog whistle (attractive - curiousity) or an ultrasonic anti-rodent device (repulsive). I used to love to watch the dog's face after laying down a demilitarized zone of the stuff, between her territory and my très chewable books. Alas, only she could enjoy the smell of victory.
    * * * *

  9. #99

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    I am tempted to say that it's a somewhat indescribable smell, but I think that may just be me. All things are subject to language, and thus I'm sure there is a vocabulary possible for this smell, and that many (especially perfumers) can describe it. The question is whether it's a widely shared describability, and I would say not so much. Woody, citrus, green and floral are easy to agree upon near their centers. Woody is a big dartboard that almost everybody agrees on. The class of smell that this belongs to is not so big.
    There seems to be consensus about the citrus peel top note, but I agree that nobody has really nailed the drydown. I described it as "woodsy" because, to me, it incorporates some of the scent of foliage, bark, and ground cover in a wooded area. It’s not the pure oak or pine note itself, but a mélange of notes. I don't really smell the cured-tobacco note that's been mentioned, and as an ex-smoker I'm probably overly fond of that smell and would notice it. I can picture one of the notes in the mélange being a cellophane note, although just one more piece of detritus on the forest floor.

  10. #100
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    There seems to be consensus about the citrus peel top note, but I agree that nobody has really nailed the drydown. I described it as "woodsy" because, to me, it incorporates some of the scent of foliage, bark, and ground cover in a wooded area. It’s not the pure oak or pine note itself, but a mélange of notes. I don't really smell the cured-tobacco note that's been mentioned, and as an ex-smoker I'm probably overly fond of that smell and would notice it. I can picture one of the notes in the mélange being a cellophane note, although just one more piece of detritus on the forest floor.
    What do you detect in the middle of it, if you factor out the citrus top and the woodsy base? What I'm getting at is - I'm supposing that what is left in the middle is the note with the tuning fork qualities. To me it's like the letter "vertical line" - which could be an i, or an l, or a 1, or an I, or a |. I'm sure that it has enough features to be roughly identifiable with something - even if just an aromachemical. I think rogalal is wondering the same thing - what is this thing? Perhaps it really just is an aromachemical trick, and giving it a note name is inherently wrong. But I'd like to get others' opinions first.
    * * * *

  11. #101

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Yep, Red, @heperd sent half of his bottle to me yesterday so I'm counting the days
    I will smell and analyse the best as I can (I wish I could run it through GC/MS but my boss would kill me LOL) and I will let others colleagues take a sniff as well.
    Methyl nonyl ketone is 'nasty', I mean to me it's a visceral 'no no' to my nose (maybe I was a cat or a bug in a former life LOL).

    1 question: where did Chandler engage, Red? On facebook?
    @SomethingSmelly

  12. #102
    rogalal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    My stupid haven't-smelled-it-yet question: Is it Iso E Super?
    Has everyone checked out my Top 100 Blog??
    Currently wearing: Lys 41 by Le Labo

  13. #103

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    My stupid haven't-smelled-it-yet question: Is it Iso E Super?
    Do you mean Methyl nonyl ketone? No Iso E super is 1-(2,3,8,8-tetramethyl-1,3,4,5,6,7-hexahydronaphthalen-2-yl)ethanone but has many other names:
    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1020611.html

    Another aromachem I don't like but appreciate

    The good news is that my nose can detect it very easy because I get an instant headache when smelling it

    Just like I can use my skin as an allergen detector: rash means it contains at least 1 of the 37 skin allergens I have been tested for. Who needs GC/MS right? LOL
    @SomethingSmelly

  14. #104
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Yep, Red, @heperd sent half of his bottle to me yesterday so I'm counting the days
    Cool! Hep is the man! He also got some off to Brian Chambers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    I will smell and analyse the best as I can (I wish I could run it through GC/MS but my boss would kill me LOL) and I will let others colleagues take a sniff as well.
    Yeah, don't get busted for feeding Chandler's nose dope to an innocent machine! (Although I'm sure those molecular ions would love to bank through some hard roller-coaster turns in the MS! )

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Methyl nonyl ketone is 'nasty', I mean to me it's a visceral 'no no' to my nose (maybe I was a cat or a bug in a former life LOL).
    Honestly, it doesn't smell any worse to me than the fresh facet of some of these woody ambers that are so popular now.

    Just sayin'!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    1 question: where did Chandler engage, Red? On facebook?
    Sort of on Facebook (since OpenSky seems to be some kind of Facebook spinoff) - here's the URL:

    https://opensky.com/chandlerburr/pro...-series-s01e03

    The price is now reset to $25. I'm debating between getting another 15-mL bottle or just waiting for the biggie.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    My stupid haven't-smelled-it-yet question: Is it Iso E Super?
    Oh - you mean the mystery note in S01E03?

    NO WAY!

    Iso E Super® is my secret GF. Nobody dare say anything bad about her! She's pernicious and penetrating - a total fatal attraction. The fat cells in my body are probably approaching Poivre Samarcande levels. I put an atomizer with some TDH parfum in my glasses case for a few days, and the odor of Iso has persisted for about a year now.

    Iso is penetrating and radiant in a whole 'nuther way. It's a subtle, insidious, woody subversion. It creeps under doors, clings to your hair (TDH shower gel is heavenly), and refuses to let go. It's as if somebody invented ambient civilization odor that smelled good.

    This seems like something else. Not sure what it is, but it's not my divine decalin diva, 1-(2,3,8,8-tetramethyl-1,3,4,5,6,7-hexahydronaphthalen-2-yl)ethanone. *swoon*
    Last edited by Redneck Perfumisto; 22nd August 2012 at 08:02 AM.
    * * * *

  15. #105

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    Iso E Super® is my secret GF. Nobody dare say anything bad about her! She's pernicious and penetrating - a total fatal attraction. The fat cells in my body are probably approaching Poivre Samarcande levels. I put an atomizer with some TDH parfum in my glasses case for a few days, and the odor of Iso has persisted for about a year now.

    Iso is penetrating and radiant in a whole 'nuther way. It's a subtle, insidious, woody subversion. It creeps under doors, clings to your hair (TDH shower gel is heavenly), and refuses to let go. It's as if somebody invented ambient civilization odor that smelled good.

    This seems like something else. Not sure what it is, but it's not my divine decalin diva, 1-(2,3,8,8-tetramethyl-1,3,4,5,6,7-hexahydronaphthalen-2-yl)ethanone. *swoon*
    LOL Red, sorry to insult her, I wouldn't dare LOL It's like a certain type of beautiful woman or model (the very skinny sleek anorexic looking ones), not my taste, but many fall head over heels with them I do however objectively see the perceived beauty.

    I wish I could find a GC/MS or any other analytical machine (maybe you know of one, Red?) that do what my scent receptors do when going all wacko of some chems *insert going wacko smiley*

    Will take a look at the OpenSky thingie, thank you kindly for pointing that to me. I am turning into this insatiable junky when it comes to this project (more wacko smilies LOL)
    @SomethingSmelly

  16. #106

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by lm6 View Post
    I would happily pay a higher amount ($150 or 200) if they were enrolling people in a "subscription service" for this project, 5ml per month or however it would be arranged (this is a learning experience, the volume of juice doesn't need to be vast). The project's concept is brilliant but the logistics and hassle of how ordering, sizing, pricing is setup is fairly rudimentary. If I involve myself in this project I want to immerse myself in the learning experience and be along for the whole ride, not just join in here or there whenever I have the money to drop or whenever it's not sold out. I don't fault CB for the logistics issues but I feel like such a brilliant project is being lost on many of us who view it as almost more of a hassle than it's worth.

    And charging more for niche automatically puts that thought into the participant's head too. If a perfume-of-the-month subscription type system was setup then you could pay the full amount at the start and the price of individual fragrances wouldn't become an issue to paint your imagination with the idea of designer vs niche. And that way you could also forget about trying to stay on top of the ball with the schedule and potential sold out issues. Just my 2c.
    Absolutely the most intelligent response to this thread. Please and Thank You!

  17. #107

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    What do you detect in the middle of it, if you factor out the citrus top and the woodsy base? What I'm getting at is - I'm supposing that what is left in the middle is the note with the tuning fork qualities. To me it's like the letter "vertical line" - which could be an i, or an l, or a 1, or an I, or a |. I'm sure that it has enough features to be roughly identifiable with something - even if just an aromachemical. I think rogalal is wondering the same thing - what is this thing? Perhaps it really just is an aromachemical trick, and giving it a note name is inherently wrong. But I'd like to get others' opinions first.
    Based on Chandler's comment about my post, the "tuning fork quality" isn't a note, its a characteristic of the whole, i.e. its unchanging persistence. Oh, and I don't know that there is a middle, a heart: just the top and then the abyss.

    As for the "is it Iso E Super®" comment, I have to admit that since my overdose, the thought has been running through my mind that this is somehow similar to my home-made "Molecule 01". (I bought a gram of Iso E Super® and diluted it.) Not identical, but reminiscent to me.

  18. #108

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    My stupid haven't-smelled-it-yet question: Is it Iso E Super?
    No, but the question is itself an excellent expression-- it's pretty clear from lots of comments here -- of peoples' perceptions of the aesthetics of the work, E03's unified, almost impenetrable surface, one that eschews nuance and texture for a perfect, polished surface, certainly beautiful in those terms-- but at that point one's subjective judgment of what beauty is kicks in and you decide whether this kind of subtle perfect sphere is to your taste or not.

  19. #109

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Here's my guess in Morse code: -.-. --- .-.. --- --. -. . -... .. --. .- .-. .- -.. .

    I'm not sure it's a great one since it was largely through process of elimination. I immediately thought I knew who was behind this scent, and a process of elimination lead me to the one that I've never bothered to smell. Possibly the only one of this perfumer's that I've never bothered to smell.

    I'll say that what I'm enjoying most about this is rather pedestrian. The mystery part is less interesting than the evasive descriptions. I love reading about the experience of a perfume from a less obvious vantage point. In particular, if it is this scent that I somehow always managed to overlook, it gives me a way in that I didn't have before. I often ask people to help me understand a scent or help me "find a way in." When they can impart their knowledge, it seems the love often follows. You don't have to rip the label off to express an appreciation of art, but it does seem to grease the rails. And the "expression" of art in this case is not just the fragrance but also the conversation that follows.

    Sometimes I think I might even prefer the conversation.

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Does anyone have this scent and smelled Thierry Mugler's Womanity? Not that I am guessing Womanity, I was just wondering if that is the same type of "tuning fork" scent? I'm not very familiar with the sensation.
    The question that women casually shopping for perfume ask more than any other is this: "What scent drives men wild?" After years of intense research, we know the definitive answer. It is bacon. Now, on to the far more interesting subject of perfume.
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  21. #111

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Windblownhair View Post
    Does anyone have this scent and smelled Thierry Mugler's Womanity? Not that I am guessing Womanity, I was just wondering if that is the same type of "tuning fork" scent? I'm not very familiar with the sensation.
    I have Womanity. I don't find any commonality between it and this scent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Chambers View Post
    Here's my guess in Morse code: -.-. --- .-.. --- --. -. . -... .. --. .- .-. .- -.. .
    I had to peek. I've never sampled that fragrance previously, but it seems like a good guess. It has me going back to look for the floral note.

  22. #112
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    LOL Red, sorry to insult her, I wouldn't dare LOL It's like a certain type of beautiful woman or model (the very skinny sleek anorexic looking ones), not my taste, but many fall head over heels with them I do however objectively see the perceived beauty.
    LOL! Iso E Super® - I can think of more than one perfumer who thinks she needs a cheeseburger!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    I wish I could find a GC/MS or any other analytical machine (maybe you know of one, Red?) that do what my scent receptors do when going all wacko of some chems *insert going wacko smiley*
    I have a book on electronic noses, but it's pre-Turin, so I don't even bother looking at it any more. DARPA will let us know when they've got something worth using to spin the civilian sector properly! *insert tinfoil hat smiley*

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Will take a look at the OpenSky thingie, thank you kindly for pointing that to me. I am turning into this insatiable junky when it comes to this project (more wacko smilies LOL)
    *borrowed wacko smilies from irina*

    Quote Originally Posted by thebeck View Post
    Absolutely the most intelligent response to this thread. Please and Thank You!
    I think Untitled v2.0 may be more like what you're hoping. But I also think a less committing 1.0 was probably the way to go, just to let people see what would happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    Based on Chandler's comment about my post, the "tuning fork quality" isn't a note, its a characteristic of the whole, i.e. its unchanging persistence. Oh, and I don't know that there is a middle, a heart: just the top and then the abyss.
    I agree that it's a characteristic, but I guess there is the idea being asked (not proven by any means) that the feature has an identifiable carrier. Perhaps not - or perhaps not even a valid question. The apple's curvature and its color are independent, although there is a relationship down underneath. Perhaps the science is in asking about their origins and relationship, and the art is in asking about other things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    As for the "is it Iso E Super®" comment, I have to admit that since my overdose, the thought has been running through my mind that this is somehow similar to my home-made "Molecule 01". (I bought a gram of Iso E Super® and diluted it.) Not identical, but reminiscent to me.
    Aesthetically, I can see the similarity, particularly in the subliminal, extraperceptive nature of the tuning-fork quality. It is in the small handle of an identifiable feature on Iso - it's penetratingly thin woody note - that I really think Iso differs. Which is not to say that the perfumers didn't somehow switch the tags!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by chandlerburr View Post
    No, but the question is itself an excellent expression-- it's pretty clear from lots of comments here -- of peoples' perceptions of the aesthetics of the work, E03's unified, almost impenetrable surface, one that eschews nuance and texture for a perfect, polished surface, certainly beautiful in those terms-- but at that point one's subjective judgment of what beauty is kicks in and you decide whether this kind of subtle perfect sphere is to your taste or not.
    Your use of spherical geometry to describe this feature is very helpful. I was using a variety of different geometric ideas to speculate about the science behind the art, and about the relationship to music, but when thinking about the feeling and impression of the art itself, the sphere really works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Chambers View Post
    Sometimes I think I might even prefer the conversation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Windblownhair View Post
    Does anyone have this scent and smelled Thierry Mugler's Womanity? Not that I am guessing Womanity, I was just wondering if that is the same type of "tuning fork" scent? I'm not very familiar with the sensation.
    If I remember womanity correctly, it does have a quality in the nose which feels like S01E03. There is a penetration like electricity which one feels in the nose, which is actually very compelling. The big difference is that, upon that surface, are strewn (with abandon and force) all sorts of figs, fish eggs, and bottles of classic perfume. The fish eggs, I cannot take. I loved womanity as art, but I despised it as something I could simply not bear to smell. I'm actually excited about the new leather version, because I think it may make womanity pleasing to me.
    * * * *

  23. #113

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Now that I've dialed down the dose, I'm loving S01E03. For comparison, I wore my Iso E Super/Molecule 01 clone today. It's lovely (compliments to Red on his choice of gf), but oh so thin! S01E03 isn't that anorexic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    If I remember womanity correctly, it does have a quality in the nose which feels like S01E03. There is a penetration like electricity which one feels in the nose, which is actually very compelling. The big difference is that, upon that surface, are strewn (with abandon and force) all sorts of figs, fish eggs, and bottles of classic perfume. The fish eggs, I cannot take. I loved womanity as art, but I despised it as something I could simply not bear to smell. I'm actually excited about the new leather version, because I think it may make womanity pleasing to me.
    I have a special place in my heart for fragrances that get compliments from strangers. There haven't been that many, but for me, Womanity is one.

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Chambers View Post
    Here's my guess in Morse code: -.-. --- .-.. --- --. -. . -... .. --. .- .-. .- -.. .
    As a confirmed old brass-pounder, I refuse to even glance at these dahs and dits until after my sample arrives !


    Edit:

    "Brass Pounder" : a term, probably from the very dawn of the telegraph era, that ham radio operators then continued to use for those who choose to send Morse code rather than use voice communication. It refers to one's hand "pounding" on the old hand-operated brass telegraph keys that operators used to send the code. Good brass pounders were said to "have a nice hand" if the rhythmic nature of the code they sent was pleasant to the ear.
    Last edited by Birdboy48; 23rd August 2012 at 08:15 PM.

  25. #115

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Brian, after we do the E03 reveal, do your Morse Code reveal.

    And not only do I not think that what you're enjoying is pedestrian, I think it's excellent: the mystery is an irrelevant byproduct of the experiment, the conversation its point. I agree completely with this: "I love reading about the experience of a perfume from a less obvious vantage point."

    And this: "You don't have to rip the label off to express an appreciation of art, but it does seem to grease the rails."

    And this: "And the 'expression' of art in this case is not just the fragrance but also the conversation that follows." The Untitled Series, for me in any case, is the conversation that follows the experience of a work of olfactory art. Just the conversation. Because the shackles on perfume -- and if the marketers were smarter they're realize that this applies with equal power to the product form of scent as well as to the art form; any movie marketer at Universal or DreamWorks could tell you the commercial/art distinction is actually fictional, and the better we can talk about a thing, the more we appreciate it -- is the lack of language. The language drought was brought home to me first by Luca Turin, it was made abundantly clear every day I was at the Times writing about scent, and the core mission of the Department of Olfactory Art is to apply the rich art historical vocabulary we have to scent. The last paragraph of "Emperor of Scent" was about language. Luca said,

    “My father always said if you translate a proverb from one language into another, you pass for a poet. The same for science. Work strictly within one area, and it’s diminishing returns, hard to make progress. But translate a concept from its field for use where it is unknown, and it is always fresh and powerful. In buying outside, you are doing intellectual arbitrage. The rate limiting step in this is your willingness to continuously translate, to force strange languages to be yours, to live in between, to be everywhere and nowhere.”

  26. #116

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by chandlerburr View Post
    Because the shackles on perfume -- is the lack of language.
    IMHO, the three most important people in developing a language with which to describe scent are (in the order in which I encountered them) Michael Edwards, Luca Turin, and Chandler Burr. Next we need to find ways teach it to our children like we teach them to describe colors, shapes and sounds.

    LOL at the opportune use of "shackles"
    Last edited by Perfume_Addict; 23rd August 2012 at 11:28 PM.

  27. #117
    Basenotes Member Windblownhair's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    IMHO, the three most important people in developing a language with which to describe scent are (in the order in which I encountered them) Michael Edwards, Luca Turin, and Chandler Burr. Next we need to find ways teach it to our children like we teach them to describe colors, shapes and sounds.
    One of my favorite things about vocalizing how we perceive scent is how interconnected it is with our other senses. A Ramon Monegal that makes my mouth water. A Thierry Mugler that gives me cold prickles down my spine. A Bond #9 that I can't always remember the exact scent for, but I can always remember tasting like syrup. A Moschino that almost lowers the temperature in the room. The perceptions have always been there, but not the conversation. I love hearing about how others perceive scent. Fascinating stuff.
    The question that women casually shopping for perfume ask more than any other is this: "What scent drives men wild?" After years of intense research, we know the definitive answer. It is bacon. Now, on to the far more interesting subject of perfume.
    ― Tania Sanchez, Perfumes: The Guide

  28. #118
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by chandlerburr View Post
    “My father always said if you translate a proverb from one language into another, you pass for a poet. The same for science. Work strictly within one area, and it’s diminishing returns, hard to make progress. But translate a concept from its field for use where it is unknown, and it is always fresh and powerful. In buying outside, you are doing intellectual arbitrage. The rate limiting step in this is your willingness to continuously translate, to force strange languages to be yours, to live in between, to be everywhere and nowhere.”
    To achieve what I believe is necessary for a true language of olfaction, I really wish there were an open-source repository of olfactory knowledge like arxiv. If you want something to happen, just create a frictionless path for it. With every olfactory receptor article costing me $30, it's easier to just say the hell with it. Although sometimes I can find an illegal copy in China.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    IMHO, the three most important people in developing a language with which to describe scent are (in the order in which I encountered them) Michael Edwards, Luca Turin, and Chandler Burr. Next we need to find ways teach it to our children like we teach them to describe colors, shapes and sounds.

    LOL at the opportune use of "shackles"
    I would love to see corny children's titles like "The Sniffiest Doggie" or "Chypre Charlene: Scent Detective". I'm sure that scented children's books would be terribly popular.

    Quote Originally Posted by Windblownhair View Post
    One of my favorite things about vocalizing how we perceive scent is how interconnected it is with our other senses. A Ramon Monegal that makes my mouth water. A Thierry Mugler that gives me cold prickles down my spine. A Bond #9 that I can't always remember the exact scent for, but I can always remember tasting like syrup. A Moschino that almost lowers the temperature in the room. The perceptions have always been there, but not the conversation. I love hearing about how others perceive scent. Fascinating stuff.
    Definitely. I think the real trick is to find ways to help each other smell things better, rather than just ourselves. Oddly, these very emotional images seem to work so well. I'm just not sure what that means.
    * * * *

  29. #119
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    On the subject of the language of describing perfume, I've said when it has come up before that I think there IS a language, it's just very technical. When you can strip away all the marketing and the emotion, it's just chemicals, and the people who have studied for years know what the chemicals smell like and what they do in mixes. Hence, they are able to speak to each other and collaborate. But, they have to study for years and then apprentice for even longer to become truly fluent.

    I think that's part of what makes this untitled series interesting, is that it takes away notions of "cheap" or "luxury" or "male" or "female" and forces us to try to explain what we smell without just regurgitating what the advertisements told us. I tend to go back to the technical, because I feel like I'm explaining myself better when I say that something smells like ambrox or hedione than I do when I say that something smells like a sphere, but the sphere analogy probably works better in terms of explaining how something smells if the person you're talking to doesn't know the chemicals. It's an interesting quandary.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also (drumroll please...), my sample just arrived (thank you!) and I've been wearing it all day.

    As for my emotional response, I kind of like it and kind of don't. Usually, the genre of bright citruses that go artificial and weird is one of my least favorite. Usually, I smell them as cheap failures at creating a vibrant realistic citrus, so it's interesting coming at this with a different prejudice: the artificiality is the "art", so study it with that in mind.

    I'm not sure I'm getting the tuning fork allusion - I can smell it changing as the citrus and other notes fade. To me, it's more fuzzy (in a comforting but chemical way) and bright neon orange. In my brain, it's not a shiny metallic sphere, it's this guy:



    He's kind of strange and not like anything natural, but he's bright and fuzzy and he just wants to hug. If you look too closely or think too much about him, he's kind of disconcerting and a little gross, but if you take him at his word, he's just fun and cheerful.
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    On the subject of the language of describing perfume, I've said when it has come up before that I think there IS a language, it's just very technical. When you can strip away all the marketing and the emotion, it's just chemicals, and the people who have studied for years know what the chemicals smell like and what they do in mixes. Hence, they are able to speak to each other and collaborate. But, they have to study for years and then apprentice for even longer to become truly fluent.

    I think that's part of what makes this untitled series interesting, is that it takes away notions of "cheap" or "luxury" or "male" or "female" and forces us to try to explain what we smell without just regurgitating what the advertisements told us. I tend to go back to the technical, because I feel like I'm explaining myself better when I say that something smells like ambrox or hedione than I do when I say that something smells like a sphere, but the sphere analogy probably works better in terms of explaining how something smells if the person you're talking to doesn't know the chemicals. It's an interesting quandary.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also (drumroll please...), my sample just arrived (thank you!) and I've been wearing it all day.

    As for my emotional response, I kind of like it and kind of don't. Usually, the genre of bright citruses that go artificial and weird is one of my least favorite. Usually, I smell them as cheap failures at creating a vibrant realistic citrus, so it's interesting coming at this with a different prejudice: the artificiality is the "art", so study it with that in mind.

    I'm not sure I'm getting the tuning fork allusion - I can smell it changing as the citrus and other notes fade. To me, it's more fuzzy (in a comforting but chemical way) and bright neon orange. In my brain, it's not a shiny metallic sphere, it's this guy:



    He's kind of strange and not like anything natural, but he's bright and fuzzy and he just wants to hug. If you look too closely or think too much about him, he's kind of disconcerting and a little gross, but if you take him at his word, he's just fun and cheerful.
    Haha as much as I enjoy reading technical language, your picture I get on a visceral level. He's creeping me out a bit. But he does look happy.
    The question that women casually shopping for perfume ask more than any other is this: "What scent drives men wild?" After years of intense research, we know the definitive answer. It is bacon. Now, on to the far more interesting subject of perfume.
    ― Tania Sanchez, Perfumes: The Guide

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