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  1. #211

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    The first perfume strip with E03 on it is still smelly after 4 days!, so the longevity is great, probably due to Ambroxan as one of the base ingredients, which also explains the faint paper and tobacco notes better to me.
    Ambroxan or Ambrox? Are they different chemicals, or just different brand names for the same chemical? Is Ambroxan always a really big woody-amber note in fragrance, or is it scale-able? I agree that this seems to account for the persistent basenote in S01E03.

  2. #212

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    Ambroxan or Ambrox? Are they different chemicals, or just different brand names for the same chemical? Is Ambroxan always a really big woody-amber note in fragrance, or is it scale-able? I agree that this seems to account for the persistent basenote in S01E03.
    Ambroxan has many different names:
    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1016071.html

    However I don't think it's only Ambroxan (if you want to smell fumes really heavy on it try Amber Gris by Balmain or Not a perfume by Juliette Has a Gun). Imho it's a clever combination of macrocyclic musks, Iso E Super, cedramber, kephalis and Ambroxan. To make it even more complicated there are some patented mixtures (also called perfumers bases) of these and more single aromachemicals. Teak (by Firmenich) is such an example.
    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/pb1024771.html

    If you are curious about the odor profiles on the above aromachems,
    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/
    is the best open source available on the net.
    @SomethingSmelly

  3. #213
    Dependent Birdboy48's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    The first perfume strip with E03 on it is still smelly after 4 days!, so the longevity is great,
    No problems with persistence, that's for sure. I could put it on at noon, have a long bath in the evening, and still clearly smell it as a skin scent at breakfast the next day.

  4. #214

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Ambroxan has many different names:
    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1016071.html

    However I don't think it's only Ambroxan (if you want to smell fumes really heavy on it try Amber Gris by Balmain or Not a perfume by Juliette Has a Gun). Imho it's a clever combination of macrocyclic musks, Iso E Super, cedramber, kephalis and Ambroxan. To make it even more complicated there are some patented mixtures (also called perfumers bases) of these and more single aromachemicals. Teak (by Firmenich) is such an example.
    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/pb1024771.html

    If you are curious about the odor profiles on the above aromachems,
    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/
    is the best open source available on the net.
    I had forgotten about Balmain Ambergris. I should do a side by side of that and S01E03.

  5. #215

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Ow and if you'd like to experience something similar regarding the big macrocylcic musks, try smelling these too side by side with E03:
    -Emporio Armani White For Her
    -L'Artisan Parfumeur's Mûre et Musc
    -Bvlgari Omnia
    Last edited by Irina; 3rd September 2012 at 07:11 AM.
    @SomethingSmelly

  6. #216
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    I was trying things today, and I got a big shock when I smelled Hermès Eau Claire des Merveilles. I thought that it was very similar to S01E03. However, ECdM just seems nicer. There is the same sort of citrus burst in the beginning, followed by a long tone, but it was just *nicer* than S01E03. And I think that Hermès was still a designer - at least it was, the last time I checked - even though their prices are a bit niche.

    The tension mounts.......!!! *bites nails*
    * * * *

  7. #217

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    I was trying things today, and I got a big shock when I smelled Hermès Eau Claire des Merveilles. I thought that it was very similar to S01E03. However, ECdM just seems nicer. There is the same sort of citrus burst in the beginning, followed by a long tone, but it was just *nicer* than S01E03. And I think that Hermès was still a designer - at least it was, the last time I checked - even though their prices are a bit niche.

    The tension mounts.......!!! *bites nails*
    Ha! I knew there was an Eau des Merveilles - like note in there

  8. #218
    Dependent Birdboy48's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Watch the reveal and live chat, 12:00 Eastern time.

    Here, as I understand : https://opensky.com/chandlerburr

    - - - Updated - - -

    And the answer is....

    http://www.basenotes.net/ID26135380.html

    Here's their website :

    http://arquiste.com/website/fragance_let.php
    Last edited by Birdboy48; 4th September 2012 at 04:45 PM.

  9. #219

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    My very first, undiluted reaction, while freezing to death in a Connecticut archive looking at perfume and snuff recipes, overdue for lunch, is:

    So the first niche perfume, with all the fuss and bother surrounding its production/delivery...

    ...is something I got in my June Birchbox? Seriously?


    My second reaction (to the "label" of E04) is: fair price, but is every month of this series going to be "water-washed green" and/or "transparent"? I'm not sure whether this is an intentional comparative/grouping move, or whether Burr is showing a very specific through-line of his taste.

    In the latter case this becomes "if you liked XYZ picks of Chandler's, buy ____" -- which is a very OpenSky move, but not as compelling to me as say, socking away my cash for NYC next month...
    Read something old and smelly? Come across an interesting historical reference to smell? Contact me!

  10. #220

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Friede View Post
    My second reaction (to the "label" of E04) is: fair price, but is every month of this series going to be "water-washed green" and/or "transparent"?
    This is what is majorly putting me off joining in - every choice seems to be done with a JCE style transparency - that's my Satan of fragrances.

    Looking forward to reading people's reactions to the reveal though.

  11. #221

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Well I'm relieved.
    When Chandler started saying Rodrigo and Yann did E03 I was frantically flipping through my mental rolodex thinking noooooo this is going to be something I thought I liked.
    When he said Arquiste I knew immediately it was the one I liked least and probably because I picked up on the unpleasant buzz and didn't try to force it.
    For what it is worth the the Arquiste line is well worth seeking out as the other five fragrances are things I truly enjoy but my two favorites are Anima Dulcis and Infanta en Flor.
    I am actually very encouraged that Arquiste was part of Birchbox because I think this line deserves a bit wider recognition.
    What did everyone else think about Arquiste L'Etrog?
    More writing on fragrance by me to be found at http://www.cafleurebon.com/

  12. #222
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Hmmm.... Etrog.

    Somehow this feels anticlimactic. I had tried Etrog when it first hit Barneys (I even have a sample of it from them that I haven't worn yet) and it struck me as sweet citrus. Not to be a troll, but the whole line seemed professionally executed but kind of unnecessary in that it just rehashed proven niche genres without adding much to the conversation (though, to be fair, I feel this way about most niche lines that turn up from nowhere with a bunch of $200 scents that all kind of smell like every other niche line that turned up from nowhere with a bunch of $200 scents).

    It was an interesting ride, though. Mostly getting over the "Chandler likes it so it must be brilliant" prejudice and getting to know it to a point where I was confident that I didn't think it was that great. I was hoping it would turn out to be something really unexpected like a Chanel Exclusif or a forgotten Lutens, where I'd have to really re-sniff it.

    As I felt like I was really getting to know Untitled 3, once I had decided that it smelled to me like something Escada or Paris Hilton would do, I gave up trying to guess what it was, thinking to myself that there are so many unremarkable niche lines filled with fruity florals and stuff like this that I largely ignore. Arquiste even came to mind as an example of one of these lines (along with Mandarina Duck and Odin and a bunch of the other space-filler at Barneys). Oh well.
    Has everyone checked out my Top 100 Blog??

  13. #223

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Baffled... Never heard of the line, nor the perfumers. So I guess this goes into my 'to explore' list Glad to see that I wasn't too far off on identifying the notes/house.
    I need to see where I can buy it around here. And try the other scents as well. This is an expensive line indeed.

    This broadcast was very revealing on 'the how to' of CB's curator-ship.

    I love the transparency that he talks about. I think it's indeed the way olfactory art is moving towards.
    I also love the idea that the series will be available worldwide. And that it focuses on formally trained perfumer artists.

    Not so sure about the way he prefers to talk about olfactory art. I don't think I can fully grasp what he means. The industry jargon is a no-no, just like talking about notes and odor profiles. It seems to be mainly visually focused.
    That makes me insecure in how and if I can still join the discussion on the series.

    I do love the image of 'Inception' the movie as a descriptor of E03. It really fits.

    And am very intrigued by E04. But need to sleep on it. There is something about this broadcast that got me thinking, a feeling I can't shake.
    We'll see.

    Off to bed now, till soon
    @SomethingSmelly

  14. #224
    Dependent Birdboy48's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville Metro Man View Post
    When he said Arquiste I knew immediately it was the one I liked least.....
    What did everyone else think about Arquiste L'Etrog?
    Personally, as someone who worries about having an untrained nose, the fact that a good percentage of people who's noses I respect, find themselves disagreeing with the curator's opinions and interpretations has really helped me have more faith in my own opinions about things. The project is interesting, but it's also helping me feel less intimidated by the idea that somehow I'm a total clod in missing out on all these wonderful aspects that "the experts" speak about. Plenty of educated noses can't mangae to dredge them up either, even in the face of Chandler's prompting, so this shared experience is helping me feel better about the validity of my own impressions.

    And I do think the fact that it's a blind sniffing helps us be more objective about the thing. I saw a number of reviews which were preceded by the fume-makers romantic blurb, and sure enough, a fair percentage of the reviewers found themselves in a palm-fronded hut in rustic Italy. So it's pretty clear to me that the blind aspect of this project does help us see the thing for what it is....for each of us individually.

    One thing that did surprise me is that this thing is apparently being sold as a primarily citrus type of creation. An "Etrog" is some sort of a largish lemon looking thing, and to my mind the frag never really came into it's own until the citrus had passed.

    And dates ? I did not hear anyone mention them in the thread, but now that I've been told they are supposed to be there....I suspect I'll find myself smelling them soon enough.

    As to Chandler's references to the logistics of the thing, he mentions "the shipper" several times, which tells me that he never actually has the bottles in his possession, and that almost every practical aspect of the project is out of his hands. His very brief reference to problems with S01E02 leads me to believe there was more to the "weak juice" part of that one than he cared to admit.

    And I'm sure I was not the only one to let out a guffaw when, after apologizing for the slow shipping, and initially telling everyone that #4 was ready to go, after mumblings from the OS rep offstage, he reassured everyone that they'd be receiving #4 "within two weeks".

  15. #225
    Basenotes Member Windblownhair's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Friede View Post
    My second reaction (to the "label" of E04) is: fair price, but is every month of this series going to be "water-washed green" and/or "transparent"? I'm not sure whether this is an intentional comparative/grouping move, or whether Burr is showing a very specific through-line of his taste.
    I was thinking along these lines the other day while watching Project Runway(I know, I know...). Some of the designers have a specific aesthetic, but they put their spin on many different looks. And then there are the designers that have made the exact same dress 3 weeks in a row, they just change the color every week. At some point, you stop caring where the garment is well done. You just start wishing for something different.

    I have great respect for Chandler's taste, and sincerely hope that we are treated to a wide cross-section of it. Especially as a newbie, I would love it if the Untitled Series were run like an introductory art appreciation class. Regardless of whether the teacher loves post-modernists, I don't want a class that is 90% about postmodernism. I would love to emerge from the class feeling like I learned about a wide range of styles and movements.

    Perhaps it is a bit too early in the series to be worried about it, but just from reading The Perfect Scent, it is apparent that Chandler Burr appreciates a wide variety of scents. Here's hoping that we are treated to that variety in this series.
    The question that women casually shopping for perfume ask more than any other is this: "What scent drives men wild?" After years of intense research, we know the definitive answer. It is bacon. Now, on to the far more interesting subject of perfume.
    ― Tania Sanchez, Perfumes: The Guide

  16. #226
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Friede View Post
    My second reaction (to the "label" of E04) is: fair price, but is every month of this series going to be "water-washed green" and/or "transparent"? I'm not sure whether this is an intentional comparative/grouping move, or whether Burr is showing a very specific through-line of his taste.

    In the latter case this becomes "if you liked XYZ picks of Chandler's, buy ____" -- which is a very OpenSky move, but not as compelling to me as say, socking away my cash for NYC next month...
    I hear you on saving for NYC. However, I think I'm so addicted to this series, that I'm willing to forgo something else (like a weekend trip or two) to scrape up the cash needed for an unexpected vacation.

    I feel that Chandler is rather unapologetically showing us what he regards as moving works - and his taste is clearly shining through. I admit that he is perfectly entitled to do that, and for an inaugural "virtual exhibit" of this kind, I think that doing what he - personally - wants, rather than a balanced mix of styles, is probably the best choice, given the uncertainty of it all. Still, I understand why some folks would prefer more balance.

    I have mixed feelings about what he said in dismissing all-natural perfumery - something along the lines of "not interested". He didn't so much call it unimportant, but he implied it by saying he was sticking to important works. I agree that this is not the time and place for natural and small artisan stuff. But it would have been a perfect opportunity to get those folks on board by speaking to the future, and implying that they will someday find a bit of shelter and respect - even just a smidgeon - in the MAD. (Ca Fleure Bon is a big friend of all-natural perfumery, so he was certainly in the right place to do some pre-sales for future exhibits.)

    Quote Originally Posted by forfreddie View Post
    This is what is majorly putting me off joining in - every choice seems to be done with a JCE style transparency - that's my Satan of fragrances.

    Looking forward to reading people's reactions to the reveal though.
    LOL! I have to laugh at the idea of cuddly, suave JCE and Satan being in the same sentence. It has all the makings of the first ghastly good/bad/wtf off-Broadway play about fragrance: Jean-Claude versus Satan. The clouds of L'Etrog in dry ice smoke, billowing down on the audience, would surely be one of the high points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville Metro Man View Post
    Well I'm relieved.
    When Chandler started saying Rodrigo and Yann did E03 I was frantically flipping through my mental rolodex thinking noooooo this is going to be something I thought I liked.
    When he said Arquiste I knew immediately it was the one I liked least and probably because I picked up on the unpleasant buzz and didn't try to force it.
    For what it is worth the the Arquiste line is well worth seeking out as the other five fragrances are things I truly enjoy but my two favorites are Anima Dulcis and Infanta en Flor.
    I am actually very encouraged that Arquiste was part of Birchbox because I think this line deserves a bit wider recognition.
    What did everyone else think about Arquiste L'Etrog?
    I was glad that it was an obscure and pricey niche frag which I had actually rolled my eyes at earlier, though I think it was interesting that the fragrance had been discussed with a lot of respect - thus (in my mind) confirming Chandler's pick as something deserving of consideration. I'm actually very glad that I finally got to smell it.

    However, I did a momentary double-take, because the "Etrog" that I remember most of all, isn't their "L'Etrog", but the (cough) all-natural perfume, Etrog Oy de Cologne, by Ayala Moriel. Apparently created with the help of her rabbi.

    Chandler - G_d is winking at you right now! vide supra

    http://www.ayalamoriel.com/index.cfm...&PerfumeID=101

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    It was an interesting ride, though. Mostly getting over the "Chandler likes it so it must be brilliant" prejudice and getting to know it to a point where I was confident that I didn't think it was that great. I was hoping it would turn out to be something really unexpected like a Chanel Exclusif or a forgotten Lutens, where I'd have to really re-sniff it.
    I thought that was really important. Understanding that I don't necessarily have to *like* something to appreciate the artistry that somebody else sees in something. And trusting my own sense of what is important TO ME.

    It's like when I finally got comfortable sight-seeing in Europe, and the French hostess pointed to Yet Another Important Roman Ruin. At that moment, a hunchbacked octogenarian in a beret walked around us quietly with his daily loaf of French bread. I have no memory of what building she was talking about, but I can honestly tell people I've been to France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Not so sure about the way he prefers to talk about olfactory art. I don't think I can fully grasp what he means. The industry jargon is a no-no, just like talking about notes and odor profiles. It seems to be mainly visually focused.
    That makes me insecure in how and if I can still join the discussion on the series.
    He seemed to be inviting us to use "whatever", but at the same time he's clearly relying on artistic tools and descriptors borrowed from the established arts. Actually, I think that's a perfect mix for growth. It says "use the old", but allow for the new.

    It's my continuing contention that olfactory art needs a language of its own. Not just borrow-words, but its own language. Language is messy - the borrow words will hang around, but pretty soon, they become distinctly olfactory and not visual / musical / textural / flavorful. And there are uniquely fragrant words - chypre, fougère, etc. But I really believe that we need more and better sensory descriptors, be they borrowed and modified or internally generated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    Personally, as someone who worries about having an untrained nose, the fact that a good percentage of people who's noses I respect, find themselves disagreeing with the curator's opinions and interpretations has really helped me have more faith in my own opinions about things. The project is interesting, but it's also helping me feel less intimidated by the idea that somehow I'm a total clod in missing out on all these wonderful aspects that "the experts" speak about. Plenty of educated noses can't mangae to dredge them up either, even in the face of Chandler's prompting, so this shared experience is helping me feel better about the validity of my own impressions.

    And I do think the fact that it's a blind sniffing helps us be more objective about the thing. I saw a number of reviews which were preceded by the fume-makers romantic blurb, and sure enough, a fair percentage of the reviewers found themselves in a palm-fronded hut in rustic Italy. So it's pretty clear to me that the blind aspect of this project does help us see the thing for what it is....for each of us individually.
    I think this is exactly what Chandler is hoping for - true artistic discussion, as if we were all accompanying him in a museum - some of us nodding, and some of us not. I would be fully horrified if we were all nodding in agreement with him - it would make me doubt that any of this was real.

    Peoples reactions have the distinct smell of truth!

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    One thing that did surprise me is that this thing is apparently being sold as a primarily citrus type of creation. An "Etrog" is some sort of a largish lemon looking thing, and to my mind the frag never really came into it's own until the citrus had passed.
    Yes. Makes me wonder if the etrog has a distinctive "post-citrus" smell that they captured.

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    And dates ? I did not hear anyone mention them in the thread, but now that I've been told they are supposed to be there....I suspect I'll find myself smelling them soon enough.
    Now THAT is interesting. Dates and prunes have always had tonal qualities to my nose. WOW. Fascinating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    As to Chandler's references to the logistics of the thing, he mentions "the shipper" several times, which tells me that he never actually has the bottles in his possession, and that almost every practical aspect of the project is out of his hands. His very brief reference to problems with S01E02 leads me to believe there was more to the "weak juice" part of that one than he cared to admit.
    Yeah. Completely agreed. And he was very apologetic about E02/E03 (sometimes not sure which he actually meant). Either way, I'd say we're all good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    And I'm sure I was not the only one to let out a guffaw when, after apologizing for the slow shipping, and initially telling everyone that #4 was ready to go, after mumblings from the OS rep offstage, he reassured everyone that they'd be receiving #4 "within two weeks".
    Yeah - I will fess up to my sh*t-eating grin on that one.

    You know - OpenSky as a business operation is on their shake-down cruise (no pun intended) as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Windblownhair View Post
    I have great respect for Chandler's taste, and sincerely hope that we are treated to a wide cross-section of it. Especially as a newbie, I would love it if the Untitled Series were run like an introductory art appreciation class. Regardless of whether the teacher loves post-modernists, I don't want a class that is 90% about postmodernism. I would love to emerge from the class feeling like I learned about a wide range of styles and movements.

    Perhaps it is a bit too early in the series to be worried about it, but just from reading The Perfect Scent, it is apparent that Chandler Burr appreciates a wide variety of scents. Here's hoping that we are treated to that variety in this series.
    I think we will get a bit more variety. However, I highly doubt that we will be treated to any of the Gothic knuckle-draggers that a lot of the boys would appreciate. If we even get a flower-draped diva from the past, I'd be surprised. But I am fully convinced that there will be some real quality coming.

    I think it would be pretty neat if he saved the best for right around the museum opening, as a way of adding to the excitement!
    * * * *

  17. #227

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Baffled... Never heard of the line, nor the perfumers. So I guess this goes into my 'to explore' list Glad to see that I wasn't too far off on identifying the notes/house.
    I need to see where I can buy it around here. And try the other scents as well. This is an expensive line indeed.

    This broadcast was very revealing on 'the how to' of CB's curator-ship.

    I love the transparency that he talks about. I think it's indeed the way olfactory art is moving towards.
    I also love the idea that the series will be available worldwide. And that it focuses on formally trained perfumer artists.

    Not so sure about the way he prefers to talk about olfactory art. I don't think I can fully grasp what he means. The industry jargon is a no-no, just like talking about notes and odor profiles. It seems to be mainly visually focused.
    That makes me insecure in how and if I can still join the discussion on the series.

    I do love the image of 'Inception' the movie as a descriptor of E03. It really fits.

    And am very intrigued by E04. But need to sleep on it. There is something about this broadcast that got me thinking, a feeling I can't shake.
    We'll see.

    Off to bed now, till soon
    After concluding that it wasn't anything I had encountered before, I didn't really have a reaction to the reveal of the name and brand. I've never tried or heard of Arquiste (sorry, I didn't even know what Birchbox was until I googled it.)

    On the other hand, I was unsatisfied with the reveal commentary overall. I wanted more explanation from Chandler about his criteria for the Untitled Series, and I would have liked a little more discussion of the "paint" (i.e. chemistry of the scent) and commentary from the perfumeurs. I suppose that's too much to capture in a Spreecast. I wasn't disappointed that he's decided to exclude natural perfumes and self-taught perfumeurs. The project needs to have criteria and filters -- it is his view of fragrances afterall. However, I do think there's an unfulfilled demand for someone to explore raw materials and technique with an audience. They'd have at least one participant.

    I, too, could relate to the inception analogy, as well as the Rembrandt comparison. L'Etrog is dark. I'd like to comment further about the reveal, but will have to come back when I'm not so tired.

  18. #228
    rogalal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    OK, is it weird that I'm kind of mad at L'Etrog now that I know what it is and its price?

    After wearing it at least 10 times, I really came to conclusion that it's basically three common-smelling mass-market smells stacked on each other (tutti fruity topnotes, metallic aquatic heart, fruit-chouli base). Had this been a designer scent, I would have understood completely and been able to write it off as commercialism. But as an expensive niche scent, I find this reliance on overused mall scent cliches quite offensive, especially the metallic ammonia aquatic heart (which some of you know is an automatic artistic failure for me - it symbolizes a perfume that underestimates both its audience and itself). At least in my head, the thing that so-called niche scents bring to the table (that justifies their prices) is the ability to get away from smellalike cliches.

    I suppose part of what I've learned from this is that I really am alone in the dark, tilting at windmills with my anti-metallic-windex-aquatic rants. That being said, as an unexpected bonus, I developed a newfound respect for Happy For Men out of this, and I guess that's something...

    Oh, and sidenote: An etrog is apparently a ceremonial Jewish citron fruit. I only know that from testing Ayala Moriel's Etrog, which is based on the essential oils of the actual rare fruit and is wonderful.
    Has everyone checked out my Top 100 Blog??

  19. #229

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    On the other hand, I was unsatisfied with the reveal commentary overall. I wanted more explanation from Chandler about his criteria for the Untitled Series, and I would have liked a little more discussion of the "paint" (i.e. chemistry of the scent) and commentary from the perfumeurs. I suppose that's too much to capture in a Spreecast. I wasn't disappointed that he's decided to exclude natural perfumes and self-taught perfumeurs. The project needs to have criteria and filters -- it is his view of fragrances afterall. However, I do think there's an unfulfilled demand for someone to explore raw materials and technique with an audience. They'd have at least one participant.

    I, too, could relate to the inception analogy, as well as the Rembrandt comparison. L'Etrog is dark. I'd like to comment further about the reveal, but will have to come back when I'm not so tired.
    I totally agree. That's why I'm playing with the idea hosting some blind sniffs myself, but more with a focus on aromatics training. The perfumers apprentice and the Note pad project here on BN offer some kind of 'nose education' but none are linked to perfumes to let people experience specific ingredients in a fragrant context.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    OK, is it weird that I'm kind of mad at L'Etrog now that I know what it is and its price?

    I suppose part of what I've learned from this is that I really am alone in the dark, tilting at windmills with my anti-metallic-windex-aquatic rants. That being said, as an unexpected bonus, I developed a newfound respect for Happy For Men out of this, and I guess that's something...

    Oh, and sidenote: An etrog is apparently a ceremonial Jewish citron fruit. I only know that from testing Ayala Moriel's Etrog, which is based on the essential oils of the actual rare fruit and is wonderful.
    You are not alone, rogalal *hug* In the fragrance world one can find 'scent buddies'. I know what you mean, when you develop an aversion to a particular kind of smell, it's hard to let go. I had that for a long while and then when I began this job, it forced me to let go. Maybe you will find something like that in your heart or nose

    Etrog = Cedrat. Its essential oils begin to win popularity, many other perfumers use it more and more.
    Some examples:
    -Bois de Cedrat Creed
    -Eau de Fleurs de Cedrat Guerlain
    -Pure Cedrat Azzaro for men
    -Cedrat Intense Parfums de Nicolaï

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    I feel that Chandler is rather unapologetically showing us what he regards as moving works - and his taste is clearly shining through. I admit that he is perfectly entitled to do that, and for an inaugural "virtual exhibit" of this kind, I think that doing what he - personally - wants, rather than a balanced mix of styles, is probably the best choice, given the uncertainty of it all. Still, I understand why some folks would prefer more balance.

    I have mixed feelings about what he said in dismissing all-natural perfumery - something along the lines of "not interested". He didn't so much call it unimportant, but he implied it by saying he was sticking to important works. I agree that this is not the time and place for natural and small artisan stuff. But it would have been a perfect opportunity to get those folks on board by speaking to the future, and implying that they will someday find a bit of shelter and respect - even just a smidgeon - in the MAD. (Ca Fleure Bon is a big friend of all-natural perfumery, so he was certainly in the right place to do some pre-sales for future exhibits.)
    I totally agree, with you but also with CB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    It's my continuing contention that olfactory art needs a language of its own. Not just borrow-words, but its own language. Language is messy - the borrow words will hang around, but pretty soon, they become distinctly olfactory and not visual / musical / textural / flavorful. And there are uniquely fragrant words - chypre, fougère, etc. But I really believe that we need more and better sensory descriptors, be they borrowed and modified or internally generated.
    I agree, that's why I totally didn't get his dismissal on using terms like 'oriental' etc. as efficient indicators.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    I think we will get a bit more variety. However, I highly doubt that we will be treated to any of the Gothic knuckle-draggers that a lot of the boys would appreciate. If we even get a flower-draped diva from the past, I'd be surprised. But I am fully convinced that there will be some real quality coming.
    Again: agreed. However I begin to suspect that this is more of a CB exposition than I initially thought. It's like getting a tour through someones home and his/her taste of art/interior design.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Windblownhair View Post
    I have great respect for Chandler's taste, and sincerely hope that we are treated to a wide cross-section of it. Especially as a newbie, I would love it if the Untitled Series were run like an introductory art appreciation class. Regardless of whether the teacher loves post-modernists, I don't want a class that is 90% about postmodernism. I would love to emerge from the class feeling like I learned about a wide range of styles and movements.
    Just like Red says, I think some variety will come, but not so much as one would like. It's indeed an art teachers pet favorites class. I feel lucky that I get to enjoy this postmodernist olfactory art as it's my favorite too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    Plenty of educated noses can't mangae to dredge them up either, even in the face of Chandler's prompting, so this shared experience is helping me feel better about the validity of my own impressions.
    Totally agree, I hope we can hold on to that as for me that is the most fun!

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    And I'm sure I was not the only one to let out a guffaw when, after apologizing for the slow shipping, and initially telling everyone that #4 was ready to go, after mumblings from the OS rep offstage, he reassured everyone that they'd be receiving #4 "within two weeks".
    You are not, I think it's really poorly organized either as an afterthought or because of some commercial/sponsor deal with Open Sky. I'm glad at least now we get a FB page for the project
    http://www.facebook.com/ChandlerBurrUntitledSeries
    @SomethingSmelly

  20. #230

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    This probably sounds crazy and completely ridiculous BUT what if E02 was supposed to be this 'Trog' thing and E03 was supposed to be the Mugler? Do you think it's possible that Burr's description of E02 was actually meant for the Arquiste but the Mugler was sent instead? I remember when he commented to a poster (re. E02) that she would, and I paraphrase, probably never have smelt this, when we all know the Mugler is readily available. And what if the supply chain issues experienced (and mix-up with bottle sizes) with E03 relate to all this confusion?
    Or am I just an insane conspiracy theorist?

    Now, I'll just sit here and wait for everyone to bag me out! Lol.

  21. #231

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo123 View Post
    This probably sounds crazy and completely ridiculous BUT what if E02 was supposed to be this 'Trog' thing and E03 was supposed to be the Mugler? Do you think it's possible that Burr's description of E02 was actually meant for the Arquiste but the Mugler was sent instead? I remember when he commented to a poster (re. E02) that she would, and I paraphrase, probably never have smelt this, when we all know the Mugler is readily available. And what if the supply chain issues experienced (and mix-up with bottle sizes) with E03 relate to all this confusion?
    Or am I just an insane conspiracy theorist?

    Now, I'll just sit here and wait for everyone to bag me out! Lol.
    I don't think you're crazy, Leo (LOL about 'trog' like cave man or troglodyte or the Dutch word meaning 'a pigs feeder')

    The organization is poor and I believe Burr himself doesn't actually smell the small bottles that they are sold prior to them being sold to us.
    Last edited by Irina; 5th September 2012 at 01:18 PM.
    @SomethingSmelly

  22. #232

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Windblownhair View Post
    I have great respect for Chandler's taste, and sincerely hope that we are treated to a wide cross-section of it. Especially as a newbie, I would love it if the Untitled Series were run like an introductory art appreciation class. Regardless of whether the teacher loves post-modernists, I don't want a class that is 90% about postmodernism. I would love to emerge from the class feeling like I learned about a wide range of styles and movements.

    Perhaps it is a bit too early in the series to be worried about it, but just from reading The Perfect Scent, it is apparent that Chandler Burr appreciates a wide variety of scents. Here's hoping that we are treated to that variety in this series.
    In some ways, Chandler's approach to the Untitled Series reminds me of the tea master Rikiu described in Kakuzo Okakura's The Book of Tea:

    One is reminded in this connection of a story concerning Kobori-Enshiu. Enshiu was complimented by his disciples on the admirable taste he had displayed in the choice of his collection. Said they, "Each piece is such that no one could help admiring. It shows that you had better taste than had Rikiu, for his collection could only be appreciated by one beholder in a thousand." Sorrowfully Enshiu replied: "This only proves how commonplace I am. The great Rikiu dared to love only those objects which personally appealed to him, whereas I unconsciously cater to the taste of the majority. Verily, Rikiu was one in a thousand among tea-masters."

    It is much to be regretted that so much of the apparent enthusiasm for art at the present day has no foundation in real feeling. In this democratic age of ours men clamour for what is popularly considered the best, regardless of their feelings. They want the costly, not the refined; the fashionable, not the beautiful. To the masses, contemplation of illustrated periodicals, the worthy product of their own industrialism, would give more digestible food for artistic enjoyment than the early Italians or the Ashikaga masters, whom they pretend to admire. The name of the artist is more important to them than the quality of the work. As a Chinese critic complained many centuries ago, "People criticise a picture by their ear." It is this lack of genuine appreciation that is responsible for the pseudo-classic horrors that to-day greet us wherever we turn.

    We can only hope to appreciate his taste.

  23. #233

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    I don't think you're crazy, Leo (LOL about 'trog' like cave man or troglodyte or the Dutch word meaning 'a pigs feeder')

    The organization is poor and I believe Burr himself doesn't actually smell the small bottles that they are sold previously to them being sold to us.
    Lol - pigs feeder! And thanks for the understanding! I was waiting to be pounced on for that one! As amazing as most basenoters are, some can be a little ruthless at times.

  24. #234

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo123 View Post
    Lol - pigs feeder! And thanks for the understanding! I was waiting to be pounced on for that one! As amazing as most basenoters are, some can be a little ruthless at times.
    I love this piece of internet, this specific subforum and even more specific the threads on the project. I think it's because of Red. He is very positive, respectful and thoughtful in his writing and together with other very nice and kind BN-ers (I mean it's because of them that I can even participate!) we get a very harmonious group of people that are honest, open but still in a very respectful way.
    It's unique, really!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    In some ways, Chandler's approach to the Untitled Series reminds me of the tea master Rikiu described in Kakuzo Okakura's The Book of Tea:

    One is reminded in this connection of a story concerning Kobori-Enshiu. Enshiu was complimented by his disciples on the admirable taste he had displayed in the choice of his collection. Said they, "Each piece is such that no one could help admiring. It shows that you had better taste than had Rikiu, for his collection could only be appreciated by one beholder in a thousand." Sorrowfully Enshiu replied: "This only proves how commonplace I am. The great Rikiu dared to love only those objects which personally appealed to him, whereas I unconsciously cater to the taste of the majority. Verily, Rikiu was one in a thousand among tea-masters."

    It is much to be regretted that so much of the apparent enthusiasm for art at the present day has no foundation in real feeling. In this democratic age of ours men clamour for what is popularly considered the best, regardless of their feelings. They want the costly, not the refined; the fashionable, not the beautiful. To the masses, contemplation of illustrated periodicals, the worthy product of their own industrialism, would give more digestible food for artistic enjoyment than the early Italians or the Ashikaga masters, whom they pretend to admire. The name of the artist is more important to them than the quality of the work. As a Chinese critic complained many centuries ago, "People criticise a picture by their ear." It is this lack of genuine appreciation that is responsible for the pseudo-classic horrors that to-day greet us wherever we turn.

    We can only hope to appreciate his taste.
    How beautiful, thank you so much for sharing! This reminds me of what is important: the art, the fragrance. Not the ego or the label.

    I don't know if I can do this episode, this month is killing busy and I don't want to rush it again. With getting any of the episodes from the US to here, there is just too little time left to enjoy and join the discussion passionately.
    But I do like to read y'all and enjoy all the talk about art.
    @SomethingSmelly

  25. #235

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    I love this piece of internet, this specific subforum and even more specific the threads on the project. I think it's because of Red. He is very positive, respectful and thoughtful in his writing and together with other very nice and kind BN-ers (I mean it's because of them that I can even participate!) we get a very harmonious group of people that are honest, open but still in a very respectful way.
    It's unique, really!

    - - - Updated - - -



    How beautiful, thank you so much for sharing! This reminds me of what is important: the art, the fragrance. Not the ego or the label.

    I don't know if I can do this episode, this month is killing busy and I don't want to rush it again. With getting any of the episodes from the US to here, there is just too little time left to enjoy and join the discussion passionately.
    But I do like to read y'all and enjoy all the talk about art.

    I agree Irina - great people & great discussion. That's why I come back every day!

  26. #236
    Dependent Birdboy48's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    I think some variety will come, but not so much as one would like. It's indeed an art teachers pet favorites class.
    I'm with Windblown here, and hoping for more variety than we've gotten so far, rather than just this post-modern subset of things. My personal feeling is that if you are going to curate a museum based on a subject that is, quite frankly, an unfamiliar field for most of the general public, you do owe that public a broad representation of the subject matter at hand. If there were scent museums scattered all over the country, then perhaps it would be fine to have some that concentrate on subsections of the field, but personally I'm hoping for at least a few of the Gothic knuckle-draggers that Red referred to before we are through.

    I also am hoping that the offerings will be seasonally appropriate, and that #4 will contain some hints of Fall. Can postmodernism encompass the soul of each of the seasons, or is it, by it's nature seasonless ? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

    If CB is out there, I hope he understands that beneath all this rough and tumble talk, and underneath the grumbled grousing, the vast majority of us are really enjoying his project, appreciating the energy he's putting into it, and that his push to have people see things in a new ways, both objectively and subjectively, is being realized.

    So bring on the water-washed green, and the certainly citrus, and bring on the fire gilded Medieval mirror with its micro-pitted patina of toxic, silvery mercury lying under glass.

    If it brings to mind a rolly-polly little puppy in a tussle with a Lemon Pledge-soaked rag, that'll be fine with me too.
    Last edited by Birdboy48; 5th September 2012 at 03:52 PM.

  27. #237

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    My personal feeling is that if you are going to curate a museum based on a subject that is, quite frankly, an unfamiliar field for most of the general public, you do owe that public a broad representation of the subject matter at hand.
    See, I suspect that in Burr's actual Museum of Art and Design exhibit (which if I recall correctly will have a catalogue with samples, no doubt $$$) that level of historical and generic breadth will be seen, but I am increasingly skeptical about the Untitled OpenSky project.
    Read something old and smelly? Come across an interesting historical reference to smell? Contact me!

  28. #238

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    I'm hoping that he's chosen scents that are easily worn during the time of year they are received. I wouldn't want to test a gourmand scent in July.
    Last edited by socalwoman; 5th September 2012 at 10:52 PM.

  29. #239
    Moderator

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    L'Etrog is dark.
    I never got this, but I'm sure you did, because this feature made such an impression on Chandler as well. To me, it's painfully light. I find this paradoxical observation fascinating.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    That being said, as an unexpected bonus, I developed a newfound respect for Happy For Men out of this, and I guess that's something...
    I really love this side-effect of the project! I've rediscovered my passion for several scents!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Etrog = Cedrat. Its essential oils begin to win popularity, many other perfumers use it more and more.
    Some examples:
    -Bois de Cedrat Creed
    -Eau de Fleurs de Cedrat Guerlain
    -Pure Cedrat Azzaro for men
    -Cedrat Intense Parfums de Nicolaï
    I *LOVE* cedrat! O.M.G. - that's what it is! Bois de Cedrat is one of my deepest fragrant loves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    I agree, that's why I totally didn't get his dismissal on using terms like 'oriental' etc. as efficient indicators.
    Great thought - I had forgotten that fragrance term. It's definitely a fully appropriated borrow word.

    You know, I think he wants us to just forget all our "usual" stuff - despite the fact that it works. I really think his main goal is to get us away from all the nuts-and-bolts descriptors, so that we can see new features in fragrance - things we're not used to talking about. And I have to say, I hope it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Again: agreed. However I begin to suspect that this is more of a CB exposition than I initially thought. It's like getting a tour through someones home and his/her taste of art/interior design.
    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    It's indeed an art teachers pet favorites class.


    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    I'm glad at least now we get a FB page for the project
    http://www.facebook.com/ChandlerBurrUntitledSeries
    Cool!

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo123 View Post
    This probably sounds crazy and completely ridiculous BUT what if E02 was supposed to be this 'Trog' thing and E03 was supposed to be the Mugler? Do you think it's possible that Burr's description of E02 was actually meant for the Arquiste but the Mugler was sent instead? I remember when he commented to a poster (re. E02) that she would, and I paraphrase, probably never have smelt this, when we all know the Mugler is readily available. And what if the supply chain issues experienced (and mix-up with bottle sizes) with E03 relate to all this confusion?
    Or am I just an insane conspiracy theorist?

    Now, I'll just sit here and wait for everyone to bag me out! Lol.
    Interesting idea - and I'll take it seriously enough to explain why I'm certain that it's not the case.

    There was definitely something up with E02 - that stuff was just wrong. I have since smelled several authentic samples of Mugler Cologne. However, I am positive that they are all the same fragrance There is too much similarity in almost every aspect of the fragrance save one, which happens to be very important.

    However, I can also tell you that every sample of Mugler Cologne has smelled differently. I just smelled some in Macy's last week, and while it was more green than E02, it was significantly less green than my authentic Mugler Cologne, and it was even less green than the tester in Von Maur.

    Oddly, the degree of "wrongness" of the scents - the lack of green - is inversely proportional to sample volume, in a very obvious order. That is to say, my large bottle is the greenest, the smaller bottles are less green, and the 30 mL decant was the least green of all. I am growing increasingly suspicious that an oxidation effect after bottling, kills the green note. That would explain everything, and it can happen with everybody telling the truth about reformulations, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    The organization is poor and I believe Burr himself doesn't actually smell the small bottles that they are sold prior to them being sold to us.
    It's pretty hard to deny any of this. I did get my half-money back, however, just like it was promised.

    I'm calling it a clean slate for OpenSky - let's hope they do well with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    In some ways, Chandler's approach to the Untitled Series reminds me of the tea master Rikiu described in Kakuzo Okakura's The Book of Tea:

    One is reminded in this connection of a story concerning Kobori-Enshiu. Enshiu was complimented by his disciples on the admirable taste he had displayed in the choice of his collection. Said they, "Each piece is such that no one could help admiring. It shows that you had better taste than had Rikiu, for his collection could only be appreciated by one beholder in a thousand." Sorrowfully Enshiu replied: "This only proves how commonplace I am. The great Rikiu dared to love only those objects which personally appealed to him, whereas I unconsciously cater to the taste of the majority. Verily, Rikiu was one in a thousand among tea-masters."

    It is much to be regretted that so much of the apparent enthusiasm for art at the present day has no foundation in real feeling. In this democratic age of ours men clamour for what is popularly considered the best, regardless of their feelings. They want the costly, not the refined; the fashionable, not the beautiful. To the masses, contemplation of illustrated periodicals, the worthy product of their own industrialism, would give more digestible food for artistic enjoyment than the early Italians or the Ashikaga masters, whom they pretend to admire. The name of the artist is more important to them than the quality of the work. As a Chinese critic complained many centuries ago, "People criticise a picture by their ear." It is this lack of genuine appreciation that is responsible for the pseudo-classic horrors that to-day greet us wherever we turn.

    We can only hope to appreciate his taste.
    Absolutely one of the best posts ever. That first paragraph should be framed and put up somewhere in the museum!

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo123 View Post
    Lol - pigs feeder! And thanks for the understanding! I was waiting to be pounced on for that one! As amazing as most basenoters are, some can be a little ruthless at times.
    Don't worry about those guys! Most of the snark-meisters are just pussycats with a wicked sense of humor. A long time ago, there were a lot of guys here who favored large carnivores and big-breed dogs as avatars. I was always tiptoeing around them. It took a couple of thousand posts to realize that those avatars might as well have been teddy bears!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    I love this piece of internet, this specific subforum and even more specific the threads on the project. I think it's because of Red. He is very positive, respectful and thoughtful in his writing and together with other very nice and kind BN-ers (I mean it's because of them that I can even participate!) we get a very harmonious group of people that are honest, open but still in a very respectful way.
    It's unique, really!
    Thanks, Irina - I appreciate your faith in me. But honestly, I'm just a fool with a "soup-stone" who unknowingly baited in you folks, who have the real goods!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    I don't know if I can do this episode, this month is killing busy and I don't want to rush it again. With getting any of the episodes from the US to here, there is just too little time left to enjoy and join the discussion passionately.
    But I do like to read y'all and enjoy all the talk about art.
    I do hope you can come around and spend time with us, even if you're just smelling by proxy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo123 View Post
    I agree Irina - great people & great discussion. That's why I come back every day!
    Glad you're here, too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    If CB is out there, I hope he understands that beneath all this rough and tumble talk, and underneath the grumbled grousing, the vast majority of us are really enjoying his project, appreciating the energy he's putting into it, and that his push to have people see things in a new ways, both objectively and subjectively, is being realized.
    Affirmative. Totally!

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    So bring on the water-washed green, and the certainly citrus, and bring on the fire gilded Medieval mirror with its micro-pitted patina of toxic, silvery mercury lying under glass.
    Love it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    If it brings to mind a rolly-polly little puppy in a tussle with a Lemon Pledge-soaked rag, that'll be fine with me too.
    I think you just channeled Turin's assessment of Burr's taste on a day when he was feeling very 1-star!

    Quote Originally Posted by Friede View Post
    See, I suspect that in Burr's actual Museum of Art and Design exhibit (which if I recall correctly will have a catalogue with samples, no doubt $$$) that level of historical and generic breadth will be seen, but I am increasingly skeptical about the Untitled OpenSky project.
    I agree. But I would like to give Chandler a pass - just on the odd thought that this may be his last fragrant fling as anything approaching "just another guy on the web with an opinion". I am sure that when the curator hat is fully on, as in having a valid wing in existence, and when all the forces around the fragrance world are clamoring for mind-share, he will be up to his neck in political alligators. This may end up being one of the last perfect glimpses of his personal taste, until a "Curator's Favorites" exhibit appears in..... don't even want to hazard a guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by socalwoman View Post
    I'm hoping that he's chosen scents that are easily worn during the time of year they are received. I wouldn't want to test a gourmand scent in July.
    Me too! I would love to get some fall scents for fall. But most of all, I'm hoping that the one for November produces a real buzz around the museum opening!
    * * * *

  30. #240

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E03

    Glad I could help, Red I mean it: you have a gift. Often on the net I feel like the French put it so funny "comme un éléphant dans un magasin de porcelaine" ('like a bull in a china shop'). You have a way to put even clumsy people like me at ease. I think you should do an Untitled Series of your own
    @SomethingSmelly

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