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  1. #1

    Question Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Guys, hi!
    Sorry for another Terre thread, but i just have discovered the strange thing about Terre.
    Recenly i've bought on eBay 100 ml bottle of Hermes Terre (EDT) produced in 2007 (based on batch code on the bottom of the box) and realised the real difference between this botle and new one which i had (produced in 2011).
    The old one has monster sillage and longevity, i can still feel it after 16 hours on my skin, but the new one - significantly watered down and lost its strength after 4 hours.
    Does anybody else feel this difference? my suggestion is that they have changed the formula in EDT before introduction of PARFUM version.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Haha. (Sorry.) What is left to say here? If this turns out to be true reformulamania has reached another peak. Some years old and already reformulated for no discernible reason. I read they had done the same to the Parfum.

    But I'm sure if they had done a reformulation before introduction of the Parfum this would have been realized on basenotes way earlier. Seems a new development to me.

    Don't be sorry for "another Terre thread". Aventus is the thread cancer here.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Iso E super restriction. What else ?
    aBr
    thefraglife.blogspot.com

  4. #4

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    I am positive another BNer stated recently as a fact that TdH was reformulated based on a European restriction. I have not seen much discussion of it, however.
    Current Top Five:

    1. Creed Green Irish Tweed
    2. Tom Ford Neroli Portofino
    3. Hermes Concentre d'Orange Verte
    4. Bond No. 9 New Haarlem
    5. Creed Original Vetiver

  5. #5

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Terre HAS to be reformulated... my bottle from when it was released outlasts and definitely outperforms as far as notes go the 6.7 oz bottle I bought from Fragrancenet. I sent it back and ordered a 3.4 and it's not too much stronger.

  6. #6
    Dependent hobbes22's Avatar
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    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    If this is true, it's sad news. Nothing is safe...

  7. #7
    hednic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    If true, happy I already have a large bottle of the original.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    According to this article, Terre d'Hermes was originally 55% Iso E Super (compound, not total of the diluted fragrance):

    http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/20...ults-geza.html

    According to this article, the current IFRA maximum allowed is 21.4%:

    http://www.fragrantica.com/news/Iso-...etic-2837.html
    Just because it happened to you doesn't make it interesting.

    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

    My sales thread: http://www.basenotes.net/threads/304...85#post2614885

    Wanted: YSL Nu EdP

  9. #9

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    I have to agree. My first bottle of Terre was a monster. I bought a new one a couple of months ago and it's a shadow of what it was (longevity and sillage wise)
    ... And do me a favor - don't disturb my friend. He's dead tired.

    Welcome to the Bwahahaha! era...

    TUM TUM PISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Personally I hate this madness about "which year is safe buy", and I have seen before how ridiculous prices could go up on eBay given discussions here about Dior Homme and Dior homme intense.
    At the same time, being a fan of terre ( good stuff for daily office wearing) I have to ask - when this iFRA restrictions on Iso E super were implemented?
    Actually, what is the latest safe year?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Anyone know where to get 'Vintage' TDH ?? haha

  12. #12

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1280adam View Post
    Anyone know where to get 'Vintage' TDH ?? haha
    sad bat truth

  13. #13

    Default

    I have to say if anything I've noticed my TdH bottles getting stronger over the years. I've had a bottle since it first came out. The earlier ones were mostly fruitier and I got grapefruit rather than orange peel and a softer, smoother woody base. Not sure if this is true (the reformulation) or if it's just my nose...

  14. #14

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    How did you figure out what year your bottles were produced? I can't find Hermes on checkcosmetics

  15. #15

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xerbia View Post
    How did you figure out what year your bottles were produced? I can't find Hermes on checkcosmetics
    I know and I also couldn't find it on site you've mentioned.
    I did some investigation - first digit is the year

  16. #16

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    What year would my bottles be? 0JAAQ and 0BBA5

  17. #17

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xerbia View Post
    What year would my bottles be? 0JAAQ and 0BBA5
    2010 I think

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    As per the 2009 Perfume Shrine article mentioned above :

    Since the objective of Perfume Shrine is to be very clear in what is only a hypothesis on our part and what is a matter of fact, we took things in our hands to further investigate and the resulting message is even more assuaging, discouraging you from frantic stocking-up of fragrances which you would fear would be unrecognizably altered. The fragrances by Jean Claude Ellena will not be altered or influenced by any -as yet only suggested for the future- restrictions of Iso-E Super ratio as they are already well below the ratio proposed for the restrictions. The information is official and comes from mr. Jean Claude Ellena himself.
    Ah well, that was all of three years ago, way back in the Stone Age.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    "Vintage" TdH has Oak Moss in it so the newer ones may have replaced it with Tree Moss or eliminated it completely. Fortunate enough to pick up a "vintage" 200ml bottle a while back.
    "I exist for myself, and for those to whom my unquenchable thirst for freedom gives everything, but also for everyone, since insofar as I am able to love - I love everyone. Of noble hearts, I am the noblest - and the most generous of those that yearn to give love in return. - I am a human being, I love death and I love life."

    Egon Schiele - Self-Potrait


    My classics: Dior Homme EdT, YSL Rive Gauche PH, Helmut Lang Cuiron, L'Occitane Neroli (vintage), Davidoff Zino, L'Occitane Eau des Baux

    http://www.basenotes.net/wardrobe/2976

  20. #20

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    I couldn't notice any difference.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alvus View Post
    I couldn't notice any difference.
    It's evident starting from mid notes - top notes more or less similar.
    Main issue about new ones - poor longevity and flat drydown

  22. #22

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Yes it has been. I had a small bottle from 2007 as well, it projected very well, the current version does not have the same projection, it has mediocre projection now. I attribute this to the Iso E reduction.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Not to worry, simply buy the better Yardley Citrus & Wood. Extremely analgous, better & far cheaper. Approx. $20 on Amazon.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellsLike View Post
    According to this article, Terre d'Hermes was originally 55% Iso E Super (compound, not total of the diluted fragrance):

    http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/20...ults-geza.html

    According to this article, the current IFRA maximum allowed is 21.4%:

    http://www.fragrantica.com/news/Iso-...etic-2837.html
    But the Ifra restriction sure refers to tne diluted fragrance. You're comparing two different things. You have to take into account the perfume oil content, which is quite high for TdH, I beliefe something like 20 or 25 %. So that would make a total Iso E Super content of below 15 % for sure, so no need for reformulation.

    Btw, I have an unopened box from duty free. How can I translate the batch code? Or do I have to open the package to find the real code?

    - - - Updated - - -

    On the packing thre is only an EAN code, which I researched on the internet. There is no information about the year of production... there is also a reference number REF 20873. Didn't find any information...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ok, i finlly unboxed it (I didn't unbox it earlier because I had a decant plus I was thinking of giving it to a friend maybe. Too late :-) on the bottle itself it says 0kAAM. So does it mean that it is from 2010? Is this good or bad?

  25. #25

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    I feel guilty myself for opening another crazy thread about batch codes and safe years
    Anyway, there is a difference at least between 2008 and 2012 juices. Hard to say about 2010, which is probably year of production in your case.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Does anyone know if this reformulation applies to the Parfum as well, or just to the edt?

  27. #27

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    As I've been saying, for the last couple of years or so, nothing is sacred anymore. Always try to acquire backups shortly after purchasing a fragrance you absolutely love. If the worst comes to the worst, you can offload them either on the sales broad or on ebay.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boge View Post
    Not to worry, simply buy the better Yardley Citrus & Wood. Extremely analgous, better & far cheaper. Approx. $20 on Amazon.
    Around $12 at TJMaxx/Marshall's when they have it. Their Iris scent is outstanding as well.

    I wonder if you could layer TdH with Iso E Super (check eBay for knockoff of Molecule 01 which is basically E) and fix the problem IFRA created. It is too bad Everclear is banned in NY or I would make up my own batch of wearable E.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellsLike View Post
    According to this article, Terre d'Hermes was originally 55% Iso E Super (compound, not total of the diluted fragrance):

    http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/20...ults-geza.html

    According to this article, the current IFRA maximum allowed is 21.4%:

    http://www.fragrantica.com/news/Iso-...etic-2837.html
    Quote Originally Posted by DieNase View Post
    But the Ifra restriction sure refers to tne diluted fragrance. You're comparing two different things. You have to take into account the perfume oil content, which is quite high for TdH, I beliefe something like 20 or 25 %. So that would make a total Iso E Super content of below 15 % for sure, so no need for reformulation.
    No.

    Both percentages in the articles are percentages of compound before dilution.
    Just because it happened to you doesn't make it interesting.

    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

    My sales thread: http://www.basenotes.net/threads/304...85#post2614885

    Wanted: YSL Nu EdP

  30. #30

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    is it still worth buying if you cant find the "vintage" haha or should i just get yardley citrus and woods

  31. #31

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    The edt seems to be a tad weaker compared to nthe initial release. I prefer the parfum.
    Is the juice worth the squeeze?

  32. #32

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    I noticed a distinct difference between my initial sample of TdH Parfum and the bottle I purchased. I attributed it to either the sample getting oxidized and altering the smell, or a difference between the dap vs spray application method. I double checked, and my bottle starts with a 1- so I assume it's 2011.

    The sample smelled better without a doubt, the initial blast was deep orange peel and the drydown blossomed into something containing what I perceived to be a floral wood note. My bottle starts with a brighter grapefruit smell which persists throughout the entire scent, and does not contain the floral wood drydown. It is much more linear, and although it's still very nice, it lacks the original magic of the decant I fell in love with.

  33. #33

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    It may not just be reformulation, but could also be down to aged juice. I have had bottle of TdH (both EdT and Parfum) for 12-18 month periods. Some of these have become very strong, cloying and the 'grapefruit' note really does seem to be more 'orange peel'. I remember they were all more grapefruit-like in the opening, settling down to an aromatic-woody base. Could it be that more bottles are sitting longer on shelves and in stock rooms before being sold?

  34. #34

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    I learned recently TDH EDT is one of the fake frags that gets sold on ebay. There's a thread around here somewhere talking about it and pictures to help sort it out. I had one sold one to me too before I realized it's a popular faked frag on ebay. I got the full refund and he let me keep the fake.....and I won't wear it at all.

    I do have to say it smells kinda close to the real thing but it doesn't project as well nor does it have the flinty note. It just smells citrus and woods but flat, hollow and lacking for the whole 3 hours it lasts.
    ***My SALE thread***My TRADE thread***
    Frag addicted? Join the support group We are too but dam we smell good!

  35. #35

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    how do you know if its a fake link to the thread ?

  36. #36
    Dependent hobbes22's Avatar
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    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    I wonder if there is a Terre d'Hermes expert or two that other people could send samples to test. I'm not yet convinced that TdH has been reformulated, but it sounds plausible. It would be nice to figure out what dates of production are safe and which are potentially reformulated.

    Also, has anyone deciphered the production codes on Hermes bottles yet?

    I'm curious if the parfum has been reformulated, since it was released later.

  37. #37

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Yeah people let's see if this is indeed reformulated. I, for one, just started to get really warmed up to this juice, now just need to find me a monster bottle.

  38. #38
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    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    I was thinking of picking one up.....but, thanks to BN, i guess i would really have to try it first

  39. #39

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    My code is 2EAAL, I figure it's a 2012 release, can't smell this stuff after a few hours, but apparently it can fill a room good (got a compliment as soon as someone entered the room like 7.5 hours after initial application, by then I couldn't even smell it when I put my nose against my arm). Good enough for me, if it can deliver 8 hours of "noticing" by others, so that it covers a work day stuff does its job, especially considering this is an orangy scent and usually these don't last at all on my dry skin
    Makes me wonder though, if this really was even more potent in the past before said reformulations. I can definitely see what the hype is about.

  40. #40

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    I have never understand some call this a "sillage monster". It smells very nice, but it`s one of the weakest scent i`ve tried, and the edp version is even worth..

  41. #41
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    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    It was never a siilage monster.

  42. #42

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Quote Originally Posted by EDJA View Post
    Personally I hate this madness about "which year is safe buy", and I have seen before how ridiculous prices could go up on eBay given discussions here about Dior Homme and Dior homme intense.
    At the same time, being a fan of terre ( good stuff for daily office wearing) I have to ask - when this iFRA restrictions on Iso E super were implemented?
    Actually, what is the latest safe year?
    You should check out the guitar message boards. The same stuff is happening with the guitar industry. For example, electric guitars with Brazilian Rosewood fingerboards usually sell for a couple of thousand dollars more than the ones with Rosewood from other countries.

  43. #43

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    if this is true then Montale's Red vetiver is a good replacement!

  44. #44

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    This may explain why this fragrance does absolutely nothing for me.I bought a 30ml travel bottle with a 100ml refill from Duty free at Dubai airport.Completey undetectable on me after a couple of hours.A good reminder for me to stick it on ebay!

  45. #45
    treeman5823
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    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Now hold on a second (two months in the future)

    My batch code for my TdH edt is 1ABAN--a 2011 batch I think--and the ingredients list both oak and tree moss.
    What's going on here?

  46. #46

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Damn...and Hermes seemed to be immune to the reformulation plague.

    Must get a backup of Declaration, just in case.
    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  47. #47

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveJazz View Post
    Damn...and Hermes seemed to be immune to the reformulation plague.

    Must get a backup of Declaration, just in case.
    +1 absolutely. Will also get a backup...

  48. #48

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveJazz View Post
    Damn...and Hermes seemed to be immune to the reformulation plague.

    Must get a backup of Declaration, just in case.
    Why drag Declaration into this problem?

  49. #49

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslo-Fjord View Post
    Why drag Declaration into this problem?
    Same perfumer, many of the same ingredients, similar smell, so probably also targeted for reformulation. And since it's regarded as a modern classic, that pretty much guarantees reformulation.
    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  50. #50

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    OK... sotd is TdH parfum, so I came upon this thread, read it, pondered it, resisted the urge to go look at my 'codes' on the parfum bottle and edt as well, but just couldn't help myself. Happy relief; 2009/2008, respectively.

    HOWEVER, WHAT IS WITH ALL THIS PERSISTENT HAND-WRINGING W/R/T ISO E SUPER & TDH?

    All y'all should settle down and: 1) go read the Perfume Shrine article linked in post #8; 2) go to the IFRA Standard - 43rd Amendment doc directed at the Iso E Super restriction [ http://www.ifraorg.org/en-us/standards_restricted/s3/p7 the document is titled "OTNE (1-(1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 Octahydro-2,3,8,8-tetramethyl-2-naphthalenyl)ethanone) Tags: Amberonne, Boisvelone, Iso E super, Isocyclemone E"].

    As lifted from the PS article...

    Here is a table of Top Ten Fragrances with Regard to Their Content in Iso E Super
    No., Fragrance Name (Company, launch year), Iso E Super
    [NB. the percentage is in regards to compound, not diluted ready to use product]

    1 Molecule 01 (escentric molecules, 2005) 100%
    2 Perles de Lalique (Lalique, 2007) 80%
    3 Poivre Samarcande (Herme`s, 2004) 71%
    4 Escentric 01 (escentric molecules, 2005) 65%
    5 Terre d'Hermes (Hermes, 2006) 55%
    6 Incense Kyoto (comme des garcons, 2002) 55%
    7 Incense Jaisalmer (comme des garcons, 2002) 51%
    8 Fierce for Men (Abercrombie & Fitch, 2002) 48%
    9 Kenzo Air (Kenzo, 2003) 48%
    10 Encre noire (Lalique, 2006) 45%

    Ref for table: Schon G. 2008. 'Escentric' molecules. Chemistry & Biodiversity. 5 (6) :1154-8. In June 2008. Verlag Helvetica Chimica Acta AG,Zurich


    Although it may not have been clearly written in the PS article (and certainly confused further in the Fragrantica piece, linked to in post #8 as well) as noted directly from the standard itself, 'Limits in the finished product" for category 4 is 21.4%. Think about it folks. It is the finished product that is allergen/bio/eco/neuro concerning. Afterall, it is the universe of finished products from which IFRA perfoms its random tests in its compliance cycles. Limiting the % limit on the concentrate/unfinished compound makes no sense as dilution makes all the difference.

    Now I no longer have my box for TdH edt, but the box for the parfum indicates 79% alc content. Assuming, conservatively, that the edt has the same 21% concentration as the parfum... that would mean a IES concentration in the finished product of only about 11.5% (.55x.21). Far, far below the 21.4%.

    What are you guys thinking? Chill out.

    Sure, TdH may have been reformed. And TdH may have even been reformed in response to an IFRA standard concerning a different restriced or prohibited ingredient that only Hermes or JCE know about. But, TdH was not reformed due to IFRA's IES restriction.

  51. #51

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    All I know is that the current EDT is far weaker than the original version that my wife and I fell in love with. The current TDH Parfum is closer to the original EDT. I wish I had a big fat bottle of the original EDT, because it is my favorite version of all. I HATE these reformulations.

  52. #52
    treeman5823
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    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Quote Originally Posted by DuNezDeBuzier View Post
    Now I no longer have my box for TdH edt, but the box for the parfum indicates 79% alc content. Assuming, conservatively, that the edt has the same 21% concentration as the parfum... that would mean a IES concentration in the finished product of only about 11.5% (.55x.21). Far, far below the 21.4%.

    What are you guys thinking? Chill out.
    Spladam!

  53. #53

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    I totally agree! Something has changed. I've been wearing TDH edt since 2006 and was amazed by the sillage and longevity. Now, it is not the same. I've returned bottles to Nordstrom, Sephora, and Fragrancenet because something was wrong with the juice. I still love the frag but I'm tired of returning bad juice. I recently smelled a TDH edp tester in Sephora and it smelled like the old edt (great sillage and longevity). Purchased a bottle of the edp, thinking it would be like the juice of old and had to return because it was so watered down. I just don't know what to do about my favorite frag.

    Quote Originally Posted by EDJA View Post
    Guys, hi!
    Sorry for another Terre thread, but i just have discovered the strange thing about Terre.
    Recenly i've bought on eBay 100 ml bottle of Hermes Terre (EDT) produced in 2007 (based on batch code on the bottom of the box) and realised the real difference between this botle and new one which i had (produced in 2011).
    The old one has monster sillage and longevity, i can still feel it after 16 hours on my skin, but the new one - significantly watered down and lost its strength after 4 hours.
    Does anybody else feel this difference? my suggestion is that they have changed the formula in EDT before introduction of PARFUM version.
    - - - Updated - - -

    So true! You are spot on!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckW View Post
    All I know is that the current EDT is far weaker than the original version that my wife and I fell in love with. The current TDH Parfum is closer to the original EDT. I wish I had a big fat bottle of the original EDT, because it is my favorite version of all. I HATE these reformulations.

  54. #54

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    I just got lucky with an EDT I bought at Sephora. I also just sold my EDP. It did not last or project on me. The EDT is the best one I've had since the first batch.

  55. #55

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckW View Post
    I just got lucky with an EDT I bought at Sephora. I also just sold my EDP. It did not last or project on me. The EDT is the best one I've had since the first batch.
    I still wear the EDT and my current one still has pretty good strength. But I'd like to find some backups. Is finding one that is like original that hit or miss?
    "As you walk down the fairway of life you must smell the roses, for you only get to play one round."
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  56. #56

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Quote Originally Posted by ToughCool View Post
    I still wear the EDT and my current one still has pretty good strength. But I'd like to find some backups. Is finding one that is like original that hit or miss?
    Yep, has been for me at least. It's still not quite as good but it's the closest I've found.

  57. #57
    Dependent Pegasus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckW View Post
    I just got lucky with an EDT I bought at Sephora. I also just sold my EDP. It did not last or project on me. The EDT is the best one I've had since the first batch.
    Same thing. I never had any luck with the Pure Parfum that I bought from Bloomingdales, it disappeared in less than 3 hours and never projected. I had to sell it and go back to the EDT.

  58. #58

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Hope not! That's too good of a frag to have reformulated. And you know it's very rare that reformulated is better.

  59. #59
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    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    I have also noticed this.

  60. #60

    Default Re: Terre d'hermes - reformulated?

    Just got 2012 batch and compared to my vintage. New reformulation is far weaker. Sillage is gone after 2~ hours but does stay close to skin until about 6 hours. Old one will easily project after 9~12 hours. Disappointing. Got my new one from Fragrancenet.

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