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  1. #1

    Default Rice Infused Alcohol

    Has anyone tried this... or experimented with making their own? It sounds
    interesting to me... the cloudy appearance may be an issue for some... but I
    wondered if anyone here has tried this or something similar.

    http://www.providenceperfume.com/col...oducts/basmat\
    i-rice-infused-perfumers-alcohol

    So many questions... so little time!

    Thanks,
    Tania
    Tania

    www.PureNaturalDiva.com

  2. #2

    Default Re: Rice Infused Alcohol

    The page doesn't exist anymore so I can't see the product

    but what on earth was suppose to be the point of it ??

  3. #3

    Default Re: Rice Infused Alcohol

    The link was badly reported, here it is http://www.providenceperfume.com/col...fumers-alcohol
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  4. #4

    Default Re: Rice Infused Alcohol

    basmati... rice... infused.... perfumers... alcohol ???

    ooooooookay

    coming from someone who actually drinks rice milk and buys all organic food, this organic brainwash marketing machine has got to stop.

    either that or call it under a different name, do what you will in the free market economy, but trying to lend legitimacy to this bizarre concoction by calling it perfumer's alcohol is absolutely absurd.

    edit: I'm sorry, I'm not usually so negative, but this like Twilight Zone ??? are they even attempting to pretend they're for real ?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Rice Infused Alcohol

    Well generally I agree with these considerations, but it seems to me that in this case they are just selling a rice tincture, to use as a fixative and they don't seem to be offering any strange thing. I can tell I smelled rice EO and it was not bad at all, don't know if this would do the same effect.
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  6. #6

    Default Re: Rice Infused Alcohol

    Sorry about the bad link.
    I was just wondering if anyone had tried this product... or anything similar?

    PND
    Tania

    www.PureNaturalDiva.com

  7. #7

    Default Re: Rice Infused Alcohol

    well that's precisely what it is, a rice tincture. I mean you could tincture anything you want for whatever reason you want and sell it - I'm not against that at all. Upping the volume and selling it under the name perfumers alcohol though is where it starts to cross the line.

    perfumer's alcohol is by definition a neutral dilutant alcohol mainly used to bring down the concentrations and up the volumes of finished alcohol based perfumes. If you add a scent to it, you're breaking the definition. Its like selling DPG which has a small percentage of ethyl vanillin in it and calling it Perfumers Vanillin DPG. "to add a little vanillin to the rest of your notes as you dilute". It's insane. You're just selling a diluted ethyl vanillin, you can't claim it to be anymore than it is, not only that, it's largely pointless to buy this as a pre-packaged item. Now, to follow in their footsteps, you wouldn't even tell the consumer how much ethyl vanillin you put in there as there is no "metric" on the rice page - this causes you to be stuck with this producer forever as you'll never be able to make this yourself. Fair enough - aromachem companies do this with bases - but with a base at least there's some intellectual property to protect there. This is just a mystery amount of rice that's sat around in alcohol for a while.

    It just seems as though these producers are preying on the many consumers which have gotten all caught up in this whirlwind of organic everything and natural perfumery everything (it seems like if you slap the word Basmati rice on just about anything now you'll have a contingent of people ready to buy, oh yes and its got to be Basmati btw - cuz you know, thats what all the cool kids are eating) - and I'm not one to tell anybody what to do - nor am I against natural perfumery - But natural perfumery is a tough science, its much more difficult than "standard perfumery" imho to make something that actually smells of a perfume. I have a great deal of respect for natural perfumers who can do this. The funny part is that people are treating them the other way around and you've got thousands of folks running around calling themselves "natural perfumers" with 1-2 years of "practice".

    The producers know this, and also know the psychology behind most of these people (and i mean 98%), evident in the DIY forum to externalize their lack of skill and patience on a lack of materials - "oh, all I need to do is buy this extremely expensive saffron oil / ambrette seed / agarwood / enfleurage jasmine and then my perfumes will be great!".

    Look at the wording they use for instance to sell the rice material:

    This artisan crafted tincture of brown basmati rice adds a unique creamy, slightly nutty lactone note to perfumes, the addition of natural starch and vegetable glycerin extends dry down notes. Excellent for crafting a scent with milky overtones--a challenge in natural perfumery

    "artisan crafted" - dude, its alcohol that rice has sat around in for a while, the bastardization of the words "artisan" and "hand made" is something I won't even get into for now... This entire paragraph is loaded with promises of helping with the two most discussed issues in perfumery, longevity and realistic fantasy notes. One which is not inherent to it but simply as stated is due to the addition of glycerine, the second which is entirely questionable, i suppose, depending on your definition of creamy, milky, etc

    This cycle repeats itself over and over, consequently these folks end up in a few years with an organ 500 materials strong and still no clue what to do with any of it. Then they stand behind the shield of beauty is in the eye of the beholder with their creations to rationalize the 5000$ they just spent on tools without education. Anyways, I've probably gone a bit off track..

    the point is that, that's cool, do whatever you want with your money, if you want to buy that rice eo, or the malaysian coconut absolute, or who knows what else, do as you please. In fact, I'm such a perfume nerd I'd probably buy those as well, even knowing the rather limited use I'd get from them. I applaud producers who create these somewhat "out there" oils. I'm a big fan of innovation. The separation though, comes at the point that a coconut absolute is a legitimate product. It is an absolute that can be used, manipulated like any other absolute, and it is, itself, its own base building block, in the sense that you know what you are getting and how much you are getting. This rice what-have-you is not;

    It's an insult to the intelligence of natural perfumers

    PND - long story short, I would urge you not to buy this, as its not a product with any integrity. It's just a marketing ploy to get people to spend money on something they don't need (in its form). This is the celebrity fragrance of the natural perfume world. Even worse really. If you want to see how rice will perform as a material, I would suggest you either get the eo otocione was speaking of earlier or make some tincture by yourself at home first, at least then you'll be able to log what you have put in to be able to recreate it on a consistent basis without being tied to this producer.
    Last edited by Versailles; 2nd September 2012 at 11:43 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Rice Infused Alcohol

    Thank You for the detailed response!
    I wasn't contemplating purchasing this from them... but I am curious to try to make some to try for myself. As you mentioned... I don't want to be beholden to someone else for a base material like this.
    Any suggestions of what mix ration I should try?
    Tania

    www.PureNaturalDiva.com

  9. #9

    Default Re: Rice Infused Alcohol

    Rice is quite fragrant, I would think that (and this is just a total guess) one might be able to perceive a scent after one or two tinctures. Since rice soaks up a lot of liquid you will need to use quite a bit more alcohol and then probably compress the rice after to drain as much as you can. Just from my cooking experience this means youd need to use probably 4x the volume of alcohol to rice for each consecutive tincture. Unless you're getting your perfumers alcohol on the cheap I'm not sure this is the greatest idea as you could be prone to big losses if you are buying your alcohol retail, remember, those guys selling for 24$ a bottle are likely paying 50 cents a litre for theirs so they can afford the losses during the tincturing process.. Why not go with the EO instead? its clear to boot so you wont have to deal with the cloudyness
    Last edited by Versailles; 5th September 2012 at 07:15 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Rice Infused Alcohol

    Gosh, Versailles, I feel like you are taking all this too seriously man and don't misunderstand me, I agree with most of the things you say, but you look like you have a lot of repressed anger!
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  11. #11

    Default Re: Rice Infused Alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Versailles View Post
    basmati... rice... infused.... perfumers... alcohol ???

    ooooooookay

    coming from someone who actually drinks rice milk and buys all organic food, this organic brainwash marketing machine has got to stop.

    either that or call it under a different name, do what you will in the free market economy, but trying to lend legitimacy to this bizarre concoction by calling it perfumer's alcohol is absolutely absurd.

    edit: I'm sorry, I'm not usually so negative, but this like Twilight Zone ??? are they even attempting to pretend they're for real ?
    Wow. Really. As someone who just enjoys perfume and has only recently started down the road of creation ( a hobbyist with great passion), I find these responses less informative and more daunting and generally poisonous in a community of what I thought were like minded artists and individuals trying to share. Versailles' response seems more like a rant at worst and a tangent at best but both tinged with personal issues that have less to do with the art and beauty involved in crafting something from nothing. While not a natural perfumer ( at least not yet), I have long been an artist in several disciplines and while opinions and critiques are instrumental to the progress of art, smugness and arrogance no matter how much "information" they are backed up with are simply counter Productive to what seems to be a growing movement in the beauty industry and outside industry: a sub culture if you will.
    You seem well read, very informed, and extremely experienced. You do your own intelligence a disservice with your commentary. I agree with your thoughts on "artisan" as a word, but if you're going to complain about the use of a word in the ever flexible constantly evolving ( or devolving) English language, be pissed at Dunkin Donuts or Doritos for "artisan" bagels and chips. Don't detract from your contemporaries, it diminishes your own value. I suppose there will always be "haters", but do you really want to be one? If so, be proud of your success. One more goal in apparently empty life achieved.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Rice Infused Alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Snifalot View Post
    Wow. Really. As someone who just enjoys perfume and has only recently started down the road of creation ( a hobbyist with great passion),
    as you admit you are new to the subject I will have to discount your opinion. don't take it personally, its just like walking into a classroom where a phd is emotionally upset about some recent development in his field of expertise and say "well, I don't really know anything about this because its my first class... but " I'm not saying I'm a phd here, just trying to make an analogy..

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Snifalot View Post
    I find these responses less informative and more daunting and generally poisonous in a community of what I thought were like minded artists and individuals trying to share. Versailles' response seems more like a rant at worst and a tangent at best but both tinged with personal issues that have less to do with the art and beauty involved in crafting something from nothing. While not a natural perfumer ( at least not yet),
    again, you admit "while not a natural perfumer". This is not a forum of like minded aritsts. It's a public forum where we sometimes critique products. Actually, we critique a lot of products here, cool water comes to mind. This rice nonsense doesn't get any special treatment or protection...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Snifalot View Post
    I have long been an artist in several disciplines and while opinions and critiques are instrumental to the progress of art, smugness and arrogance no matter how much "information" they are backed up with are simply counter Productive to what seems to be a growing movement in the beauty industry and outside industry: a sub culture if you will.
    counter productive to the beauty industry ? this is a forum for the fragrance industry. I'll find that most people in here will agree that the industry as a whole is in total decline artistically (save for the niche movement, I'm talking the industry as a whole). Especially those who have been here / interested in perfume longer than others. Actually, that's a straight up fact. Lets not get facts and the influence of the naive vote on public opinion confused. Anyways, perhaps a bit of emotion and passion is what is needed instead of quietly allowing ourselves to get spoonfed bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Snifalot View Post
    You seem well read, very informed, and extremely experienced. You do your own intelligence a disservice with your commentary. I agree with your thoughts on "artisan" as a word, but if you're going to complain about the use of a word in the ever flexible constantly evolving ( or devolving) English language, be pissed at Dunkin Donuts or Doritos for "artisan" bagels and chips. Don't detract from your contemporaries, it diminishes your own value. I suppose there will always be "haters", but do you really want to be one? If so, be proud of your success. One more goal in apparently empty life achieved.
    this rice tincture is the "dunkin' donuts" of the DIY fragrance world. please don't let the cleverly written copy fool you. I'm not gonna bother responding to your negative attack at the end there, I'd rather tirade against scheming marketers than individuals on a website, however empty my life may be.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by otocione View Post
    Gosh, Versailles, I feel like you are taking all this too seriously man and don't misunderstand me, I agree with most of the things you say, but you look like you have a lot of repressed anger!
    not really, just sometimes something rubs you the wrong way, you know ? You admit you agree with most of the things I say - as you are educated on the subject. Not everyone is, I mean everyone has got a starting point right ? So between you and I who both are on the same page with many things - 99% of this can go unsaid. But to the people who don't know - if no one tells them about it, they'll have to figure it out for themselves which can be costly and time consuming.

    For instance, I'd rather be told before entering a foreign country that my traditional form of greeting is considered an insult there than have to learn about it by getting punched in the face. right ? we don't always have to learn from our mistakes, that's not how education works and education is what basically got us out of the caves and trees in the first place. Or if you don't believe in evolution, got us perfumes and cellphones etc.

    the anger part? its easy to point a finger at one who shows emotion even when they are telling the truth and point to say "this mans crazy! get him out of here!" its a tactic that's been used many times throughout history to kill or imprison opposition to political agendas. Luckily for me, these rice guys are probably not in a position to "take me out".

    Look, if I had tried to explain it calmly without emotion I would have just been dismissed by everyone under freedom of opinion or personal taste or whatever crazy "act" has been signed into law in the public consciousness lately - now I'm sure what I say wont get through to everyone, but since its sparked so much discourse there's a chance that someone who reads this thread (who otherwise would have bought into the product) will see this back and forth, stop to think for a minute and say

    "yes, hes might be right, buying an unknown quantity of rice that's just been sitting around in some perfumers alcohol for an unknown amount of time and is cloudy for $24.00 is a bit ridiculous and as a product aimed at perfumers totally lacks integrity, and yes, the guys selling it know it, and that just might make them assholes, trying to use my own love and familiarity of rice milk (which is a good and beneficial product - I drink it) against me to get me to buy this nonsense".

    I work in marketing, I consult fortune 500 brands, positioning, claims, comms strategies, everything you see thats consumer facing I do. I've worked with a number of international brands in hair care and personal care (as close to what we're talking about as I can think of I guess?). There's a lot of lying going on. Not all of it, there's definitely marketers out there with a conscience and companies who make good solid products, but MOST of it is lies, and better yet they're manipulative lies. Using consumers desires, associations, etc and cleverly worded copy against them into making them believe the product will solve their problems.

    Basically, I can spot this crap from a mile away, its my profession to do this. And its going on right here. Not everyone who is selling an "organic" product is honest farmer joe, theres snake oil out there.
    Last edited by Versailles; 5th September 2012 at 07:13 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Rice Infused Alcohol

    Someone just doing their own natural thing. Why not? They are certainly a bit different.

    Have a look at her write up here.

    You don't have to buy them.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Rice Infused Alcohol

    I think Versailles is not against the product itself, but the practice of selling this rice tincture as perfumer's alcohol and charging a ridiculous amount of $$ for it.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Rice Infused Alcohol

    I expect it's just a translation problem. It might be kind to tell her perhaps.

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