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  1. #1

    Default Traditional Fougere

    I'm looking for an old fashioned Fougere. Nothing like Cool Water, or even Paco. More like the fragrance of Imperial Leather or (better yet) Heno de Pravia. Any ideas?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Fougere Royale by Houbigant is the best fougere I have ever smelled. It's simply awesome that I have used up my sample and is a must buy for me when I have the cash.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Check out Penhaligon's English Fern and Trumper's Wild Fern. Hard to find anything else as old fashioned as those.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Guerlain's Mouchoir de Monsieur from 1904 is about as traditional (and good!) a fougère as it gets...

  5. #5

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Well, most of us probably know about LT's point that fougeres can tend towards a "biscuit-like" quality or an herbal one. Does anyone know for sure which is true of the original fougere? I've got one from the 70s that has a harsh herbal quality with strong oakmoss: Woodard for Men, Play it Again...

  6. #6

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hunter View Post
    Fougere Royale by Houbigant is the best fougere I have ever smelled. It's simply awesome that I have used up my sample and is a must buy for me when I have the cash.
    Jack you should look at this before splashing the cash. 'Alpa Fougere Eau de Cologne is a classic men's fragrance which was created in 1882 under the name "Fougere Royale" by the company Houbigant Paris.'

    £9 for 250ml! I have my doubts...

    http://www.manmachine.co/alpa-fouger...gne-250ml.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    I'm looking for an old fashioned Fougere. Nothing like Cool Water, or even Paco. More like the fragrance of Imperial Leather or (better yet) Heno de Pravia. Any ideas?
    Imperial Leather Fragrance is in the BN directory, released 1976. Good luck finding that! Otherwise I second noggs' suggestions, although neither smell like Imperial Leather; they are however 'old fashioned fougeres'.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Marais it sounds good but "Made in the Czech Republic" does give me pause and the price. lol

  8. #8

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hunter View Post
    Marais it sounds good but "Made in the Czech Republic" does give me pause and the price. lol
    The bottle ain't so hot either!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Another one in the traditional vein is Patrick, by Fragrances of Ireland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marais View Post
    The bottle ain't so hot either!
    Looks the kind of bottle some bottled waters come in. 250 ml. for 9 pounds? I'd go for it!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Monsieur Galimard by Galimard is a pretty traditional fougere IMO.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Quote Originally Posted by noggs View Post
    Trumper's Wild Fern.
    ^^^ this one would be my pick...


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  12. #12

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    My first suggestion is the reformulated Worth Pour Homme. It's much more old-fashioned than the original, which is somewhat ironic. The base is more leather and soapiness than earthy/oakmoss, but the oakmoss is certainly present. It doesn't have the same green opening as Paco and the like; it's smoother and less sharp, and comparing the notes to Imperial leather shows a superficial simmilarity, but notes can be misleading. Still for $15 per 100mls (believe me it punches above its weight and doesn't smell cheap at all) it could be worth a look, for about the same as a sample of something vintage.

    A more authentic, but costlier alternative (which seems much closer to Imperial Leather, structure-wise) might be Monsieur Worth Triple Cologne which is from '69, but it was old-fashioned even on release. Unlike other more popular classic fougeres there isn't a huge demand for the vintage and you can find it on Ebay for under $100 (100ml splash or spray) it shares lavendar, bergamot and lemon in the opening with Imperial Leather (though it also has Petitgrain, Eucalyptus and Rosemary) the middle is nearly identicle save the Worth offering has vetiver in place of patchouli and both have a base of musk, tonka, amber, oakmoss and vanilla. That said I've never smelled the Imperial Leather fragrance so I can't compare, but you could always look at the reviews for Monsieur and see how things pan out. For me it's a go-to classic, but then I'm very fond of the classic Worth. Many reviews cite an overwhelmingly dominant and very bitter oakmoss presence, but my bottle is more smooth at the base and I think this bitterness could be due to note degredation or some other product of ageing. Most of the bottles I've seen for sale contain very dark juice which is not the same shade as it should be, perhaps due to the splash-bottle presentation (I've mostly seen splash bottles around) as these can let much more air in.

    +1 Mouchoir de Monsieur if you can find the vintage, but sample first as the civet presence turns many off.

    +1 Wild Fern

    Also check out the vintage English Fern by Penhaligon's if you can find it. This is - in my estimation - the definitive classic fougere, but the reformulation is quite tragic. Penhaligon's seem good for old-fasioned fougere's in general though, could be worth looking into their range.

  13. #13
    Cartoonish Royalty Le Grand Duc's Avatar
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    Default

    Xeryus de Givenchy ... nuff said!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Crown Imperial by Crown Perfumery.
    Last edited by jss; 4th September 2012 at 04:01 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    +1 English Fern

    Sharp and green up top, drying down to rich, expensive shaving cream.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Thank you all, so very much. I had completely forgotten about English Fern, which I think is the one for me. Also the Guerlain. Mind you, I will try to find some of the others as well. Again, many thanks.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Azzaro Pour Homme -IMHO the benchmark
    Fougere Royale by Houbigant

  18. #18

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Quote Originally Posted by Marais View Post
    Jack you should look at this before splashing the cash. 'Alpa Fougere Eau de Cologne is a classic men's fragrance which was created in 1882 under the name "Fougere Royale" by the company Houbigant Paris.'

    £9 for 250ml! I have my doubts...

    http://www.manmachine.co/alpa-fouger...gne-250ml.html

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    Imperial Leather Fragrance is in the BN directory, released 1976. Good luck finding that! Otherwise I second noggs' suggestions, although neither smell like Imperial Leather; they are however 'old fashioned fougeres'.
    Anyone bought that Alpa Fougere? Im interested. But that bottle is very very funny. Mineral water bottle with a coffee plastic cup, ahaha.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hunter View Post
    Fougere Royale by Houbigant is the best fougere I have ever smelled. It's simply awesome that I have used up my sample and is a must buy for me when I have the cash.
    My first thought, too. Excellent and worth the money.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Jack Hunter has it right, Fougere Royale by Houbigant.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    I wasn't aware that Penhaligon had reformulated its Fougere; what a shame. I need to get hold of one of these recommendations before Oakmoss is completely banned, and proper Chypres and Fougeres are lost forever.

    I enjoy Civet so Mouchoir wouldn't be a problem.

    Again, many, many thanks to you all.

  22. #22

    Default

    The two ferns from penhaligons and trumper will be your most classic fougeres. The penhaligons is more austere and has been seriously cheapened along with the rest of their range (have you smelled recent hammam bouquet?). The trumper is a bit happier and seems pretty much intact at last sniff. I prefer it.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Thanks hirch. I know the vintage Penhaligons Fougere very well. I used to work for the company that made it, and have sat on QC panels when a new batch was being judged. Shame that both the vintage fragrance and that house are no more. I have not smelled the cheapened version, and do not intend to. Nor have I smelled the Trumper Fougere, but will do so as soon as.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Duc de Vervins

  25. #25

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    Thanks hirch. I know the vintage Penhaligons Fougere very well. I used to work for the company that made it, and have sat on QC panels when a new batch was being judged. Shame that both the vintage fragrance and that house are no more. I have not smelled the cheapened version, and do not intend to. Nor have I smelled the Trumper Fougere, but will do so as soon as.
    David,
    I would love to hear more about that QC process if you are able and willing to share it.
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

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    reviews

  26. #26

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    David I hesitate to suggest it, but my own Equisetum was designed to fill just this kind of need (can you call a desire for perfume a need?).

    Plus of course if you sign the waiver I'll even make you the original version with 1% oakmoss in it ;-)
    Last edited by Chris Bartlett; 6th September 2012 at 02:59 PM. Reason: corrected link
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    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
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  27. #27

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Proraso!

    No kidding! It's actually very close to Patou pour homme privé, which is a very nice green fougère.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Thank you Chris, but I never blind buy. And of course I want the 1.0% Oakmoss.

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    hirch, hope you got my message(s).

    You ask about the process of QC; well it is fairly straight forward but you need to know what you are doing. Every Raw Material, and finished fragrance has a sample which is referred to as the standard quality. It has been checked by GC, it has had Refractive Index and Density measured; and most important of all it smells right. So, every new batch of Raw Material bought, and every fragrance compounded will be smelled against the standard. We used to GC all Essential Oil batches and compare against the standard trace. If the new batch of fragrance smelled OK and the RI and SG figures matched we didn't bother to GC it; if there was a problem with those figures or if it smelled too different to the standard then it would be GC'd. Some customers (including Penhaligons) required a GC trace for every batch of fragrance. They also required that we check the colour of the new batch against the standard. That's it really. As I say, simple but you need to know what to do. Oh, and the standard was stored in a fridge and replace every six months, or so.
    Last edited by David Ruskin; 7th September 2012 at 08:13 AM.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    One question I don't remember anyone ever asking is how musky the early fougeres were. Any ideas?

  30. #30

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    From memory, very. The traditional Fougeres that I am thinking of had a base comprising Oakmoss, Musk (usually a nitro-musk like Xylene or Ambrette), some woody notes (usually Sandalwood) and possibly some Labdanum. The essential Fougere structure (an accord of Lavender, Bergamot, Geranium, Moss and Musk) is very flexable and can be pushed into a huge number of directions. The original Fougere Royale had, according to Osmotheque, 50.0% Coumarin (only possible by compounding directly into alcohol), and when I smelled it that seemed to be the case. It was very soft and sweet; and not actually what I am looking for. I want the more mossy, musky high Geranium type of Fougere, with possibly some spice notes (Clove and Cinnamon). If you have ever smelled the Spanish soap Heno de Pravia, you will know what I mean. Imperial Leather soap is also in the same area.

  31. #31

    Default

    David,
    Got your messages, thanks.
    Very interesting insight into QC. Thanks.
    Do pens have their frags made elsewhere now?

  32. #32

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    You might want to try Worth Pour Homme Haute Concentration.

  33. #33

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    + on the Fougere Royal, Houbigant. The reformulated one isn't bad side by side with the original.
    + on the Duc de Vervins, Houbigant but with a light touch.
    another has just come to light this fine morning on our synch thread is Roberto Capucci Opera IV, nearer a chypre I think but I have noticed it described as a fougere.
    You are welcome to a drop if you wish.

  34. #34

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    The original Fougere Royale had, according to Osmotheque, 50.0% Coumarin (only possible by compounding directly into alcohol), and when I smelled it that seemed to be the case. It was very soft and sweet; and not actually what I am looking for.
    The new Fougere Royale is quite 'soft and sweet' to my nose. Another worth considering perhaps is Murdock's Fougere. I have only smelled this on scented strip, but it immediately reminded me of old school ferns like Trumper's and Pen's.

  35. #35

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    What about Brut? vintage maybe?

  36. #36

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    I have also Yves St Laurent Jazz, Azzarro PH, Rive Gauche, Ho Hang, and I think Canoe.

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    Knize Forest. I haven't smelled this though.

  37. #37

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Mumsy, I'm afraid that Brut or Canoe are exactly what I don't want. An interesting variant of Fougere made impossible by the banning of Musk Ambrette. But thank you for the suggestions. I do not know of Opera IV. If you are sure about sending me a sample i will private e-mail my address.

    hirch, I forgot to answer your question about the fragrance houses making Penhaligon fragrances, I will do so tomorrow.

  38. #38

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Have a sample of the alpa fougere which is easily available online here in the Uk. It opens with a beautiful hesperidic note that is bright and effervescent, I also get a soft hay like note which could be camomile. I'm not sure if there is lavender but if i sniff and think lavender then i can get it (real or imagined) this gives way to a lovely soapy note. There is something here that reminds me of Eau Sauvage and 4711. I don't smell any spice at all. In most respects this feels like a cologne resting on a soapy base. The greens are very light. The transition is lovely and the soapyness seems to come and go. This isn't a traditional fougere but is rather lovely. Sits very close to the skin with subtle woods and that nostalgic soapy note making you feel clean and fresh.

  39. #39

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    David, did you work for Penhaligons when Sheila Pickles owned the company?
    Fine fragrance is alive; it breathes, unfolds and unravels with each passing hour....

    Roja Dove

  40. #40

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Quote Originally Posted by chorando View Post
    Have a sample of the alpa fougere which is easily available online here in the Uk. It opens with a beautiful hesperidic note that is bright and effervescent, I also get a soft hay like note which could be camomile. I'm not sure if there is lavender but if i sniff and think lavender then i can get it (real or imagined) this gives way to a lovely soapy note. There is something here that reminds me of Eau Sauvage and 4711. I don't smell any spice at all. In most respects this feels like a cologne resting on a soapy base. The greens are very light. The transition is lovely and the soapyness seems to come and go. This isn't a traditional fougere but is rather lovely. Sits very close to the skin with subtle woods and that nostalgic soapy note making you feel clean and fresh.
    I recently got a sample and must say I was pleasantly surprised. It reminds me of TOBS Eton College Cologne, only lighter and brighter. Once the citrus fades it leaves a clean musky base, which isn't top quality close-up but hey ho it's £9 for 1/4 litre. In the bargain basement I think Cella beats it though.

    BTW, no detectable oakmoss for me so I doubt this is very close to the 'original' Fougere Royale.

  41. #41

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Given that Chris Bartlett has already posted, may I also suggest Artemis, by Pell Wall, which has a classic fougere signature.

  42. #42
    Basenotes Member Lancel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    +1 Fougere Royale

  43. #43

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    If no one has mentioned it, Crown Fougere is excellent. It is much deeper and richer than either English Fern or Wild Fern and a good bit stronger--probably what English Fern was like long ago.

  44. #44

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Thank you for these more recent suggestions, I will try to check out those I haven't already smelled.

    PB, I never worked for Penhaligons, but I worked for the Perfume House that made most of the Penhaligon fragrances. And yes I was there when Sheila was in charge.

  45. #45

    Default Re: Traditional Fougere

    Maybe Tuscany ,Azzarro or Rive Gauche.

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