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  1. #61

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by lupin View Post
    Very juicy and floral to me. Makes me think of breakfast. Coming down on a nice day to fresh juice and flowers. Windows are open and I can smell the lawn in the breeze. Very happy scent. Reminds me of an ex. That part isn't so happy.


    Oh well


    I imagine if I wore this in public, I'd just get told I smell like a girl.


    Definite tea later on... Reminds me a bit of Gucci PH II... Which also makes me happy.
    I haven't posted much about my impressions because I've been waiting to sniff it without cold meds altering my perceptions. I've been weaning myself off them today, and my sense of smell is a little better so I've spent some time comparing S01E04 to a couple other scents.

    When I first sniffed S01E04 it smelled very familiar to me, and I started pulling out citrus-tea-aquatic/green scents for comparison. It was a strange experience. Suddenly all these other reference scents seemed harsh and sharp where S01E04 was perfectly balanced and smooth. I was shocked at how ungainly it made Bvlgari Eau Parfumee au The Vert seem.

    S01E04 seems to have a definite tea note, so I'm wondering if that's the natural material that Burr feels is overlooked by perfumers?

    I don't think anyone would consider this too feminine on a guy!

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Is E04 so dull? Or are the BN-ers that smelled it, too few? For a scent presented as 'beautiful' the (emotionally laden) reviews are meager *scratched head*
    Aaahhhhh, fuggedaboudit!

    Youse know what I say? I says, ya seen one fire-gilded Medieval mirror with a micro-pitted patina of toxic silvery mercury lying under glass, ya seen 'em all.



    J/K. I think it's pretty nice, and rather remarkable in being bereft of those little unpleasant things that most fragrances have. And it does have a rather subtle, stealthy, "sub-citrus" note that seems to reach out beyond what you overtly smell in the stuff. But I would be less than honest to say that I'm thrilled by it.

    It smells great and it makes skin smell great. It's very hard not to like it. But it's just so bloody featureless that I'm almost at a loss to say what it is that I like about it.

    I'm clearly getting a sense of what Chandler's ideal fragrance is. The anti-Santos!
    * * * *

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Due to a generous BNer I have received a sample of this juice. It's fun to participate.

    I think I've tried this one before. I get a sort of green mandarin and yuzu sitting atop an intensely sappy tomato leaf and soapy violet heart. The blend is actually quite seamless between these accords, creating in interesting whole. Tomato leaf and violet aren't favorites of mine however. This one does seem to follow the Eau de Cologne theme of this first Series imo.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Oooo tea!!! Oooo tomato leaf!!! Ooooo smooth citrus!!! Sounds beautiful indeed to my standards
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  5. #65

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Oooo tea!!! Oooo tomato leaf!!! Ooooo smooth citrus!!! Sounds beautiful indeed to my standards
    Ohh, those do sound good. I wish my nose could pick out more than just something vaguely citrus. I need to train it more. Or I'm a psychopath. Haha.
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  6. #66
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Oooo tea!!! Oooo tomato leaf!!! Ooooo smooth citrus!!! Sounds beautiful indeed to my standards
    Quote Originally Posted by Windblownhair View Post
    Ohh, those do sound good. I wish my nose could pick out more than just something vaguely citrus. I need to train it more. Or I'm a psychopath. Haha.
    LOL!

    I'm getting the tea - totally. Makes me wonder if it's some kind of tea fragrance. But I'm not getting the Killer Tomato Leaf. And while I'm probably not a psychopath, I do have a twisted love of celebrity fragrances. J Lo Deseo for Men is smelling very good lately.
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  7. #67
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    I would love to pay the generosity forward. First person in the USA to PM me with their address gets my sample vial of S01E04. (Would open it to worldwide but the shipping will definitely take longer than Chandler's reveal.)

  8. #68

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Thought I'd chime in with my impressions now.

    E04 is definitely a crowd-pleaser I would happily recommend it to anyone looking for an easy to wear fragrance.
    There is definitely orange here and maybe the tea is mate which makes me think of one perfume in particular but I haven't gone to the effort to dig it out and compare.
    I find E04 to be another translucent fragrance with the delicacy "quicksilver spider webs" promises. It definitely feels like it decomposes into something different fairly quickly on my skin. There is a pronounced floral character in the late going and it is again fairly innocuous.
    It is hard to get too excited about this because E04 is such a straightforward developing construction and so even after wearing it a number of times I'm not getting much more than the first time i wore it.
    E04 is what it is and further scrutiny doesn't reveal unexplored facets to me.

    I want to remind everyone that the Spreecast reveal will be a week from today Monday October 1 at Noon ET.
    Please send in questions to cbuntitled@gmail.com and I'll make sure to ask Chandler some of the ones that come in.
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  9. #69

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville Metro Man View Post
    Thought I'd chime in with my impressions now.

    E04 is definitely a crowd-pleaser I would happily recommend it to anyone looking for an easy to wear fragrance.
    There is definitely orange here and maybe the tea is mate which makes me think of one perfume in particular but I haven't gone to the effort to dig it out and compare.
    I find E04 to be another translucent fragrance with the delicacy "quicksilver spider webs" promises. It definitely feels like it decomposes into something different fairly quickly on my skin. There is a pronounced floral character in the late going and it is again fairly innocuous.
    It is hard to get too excited about this because E04 is such a straightforward developing construction and so even after wearing it a number of times I'm not getting much more than the first time i wore it.
    E04 is what it is and further scrutiny doesn't reveal unexplored facets to me.

    I want to remind everyone that the Spreecast reveal will be a week from today Monday October 1 at Noon ET.
    Please send in questions to cbuntitled@gmail.com and I'll make sure to ask Chandler some of the ones that come in.
    Great to hear from you, Mark! You sound a bit disappointed, or do I imagine things?
    Will see if I can think of new questions
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  10. #70
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    It's here! Thanks, Red!

    I need to spend some more time with this before attempting to explain what it smells like to me, but I figure I might as well write in with the mental image it's giving me.

    Imagine a glass vase. It's wavey and modern and made of frosted glass, so it's clear-ish and white and very smooth but you can't see through it. Now imagine taking a picture of that vase up really close, so close that the undulations in the glass look like a wavey landscape and you can't really tell that it's a vase.

    That's what EO4 "looks" like to me. An undulating vista of frosted glass. But I'm very conscious that it's not a real landscape, but something viewed up close. It's like I'm getting a simplified, limited view of something big, but instead of losing something by not seeing the whole picture, I'm gaining something by seeing a beautiful terrain where I wouldn't have noticed it in a wider picture.
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  11. #71
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    It's here! Thanks, Red!

    I need to spend some more time with this before attempting to explain what it smells like to me, but I figure I might as well write in with the mental image it's giving me.

    Imagine a glass vase. It's wavey and modern and made of frosted glass, so it's clear-ish and white and very smooth but you can't see through it. Now imagine taking a picture of that vase up really close, so close that the undulations in the glass look like a wavey landscape and you can't really tell that it's a vase.

    That's what EO4 "looks" like to me. An undulating vista of frosted glass. But I'm very conscious that it's not a real landscape, but something viewed up close. It's like I'm getting a simplified, limited view of something big, but instead of losing something by not seeing the whole picture, I'm gaining something by seeing a beautiful terrain where I wouldn't have noticed it in a wider picture.
    Fascinating. Just fascinating. I really appreciate your having taken the time to express your mental picture, Allen. I'm going to go back to my sample and see if I can "see" the same thing.

    Let me ask this - could you be more explicit about the "micro-texture" of the glass in the close-up view? When you are seeing it really closely, and you sense the undulations, is it still frosted, or is it glassy and smooth? I'm trying to understand if it the undulations are from the frostedness itself, or if these undulations are features which have a larger scale than the frostedness of the glass.
    * * * *

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Actually, I'm imagining a vase much like this:



    Imagine if you took a picture along the side of it so that the waves look like hills. It's "macro-texture", not "micro-texture", specifically a glass-smooth texture that forms hills. But I'm imagining it as frosted glass because I see it as opaque, not solid.
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  13. #73

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    What a marvelous end to my day! I walked to my mailbox expecting bills, but instead, I found a sample of S01E04. I hadn't asked for one, so I had no idea one was coming, but the moment I saw the name on the package, I knew what it was. Well, I knew it was E04. And I grinned. How could I not? WHAT FUN!!!

    I'm going to give this the ultimate blind review. I haven't seen Mr. Burr's description of E04, and I'm not going to read anything in this thread until I've first posted my thoughts here based on what I smell.

    Hooooooookay!!! Here we gooooo...

    I! Smell! Spring!

    I close my eyes and find myself in a cottage. There's a breeze, and the scent of flowers from a windowsill garden are mixed with the smell of clean. A woman lives here, and she's happy. As I smell E04, I'm trying to figure out if she has company on the way, or if she's cleaning because it's a marvelous sunny spring day. It's early spring, by the way. It's the kind of day when the warmth of the sun feels like a surprise after a long winter. When I lived in Pennsylvania, that was exactly the kind of day I'd tear through my apartment and do some serious spring cleaning. But this isn't about me, because this scent isn't mine. It's hers - this woman whose home I find myself in as I smell this. And I'm wrong. It's not a cottage. I'm in the city. I'm standing in the living room of a cute little bungalow that's close enough to the heart of the city to not be in the burbs, but far enough out to have a lawn and maybe a tree or two too. I think I hear birds. There's just a hint of something here that tells me we're in town. Something... but what? Perhaps it's the lack of something earthy and natural enough to tell my nose that we're in the country?

    Yes, I smell cleaning products here. I smell Pledge and some of that orange hardwood floor cleaner. Orange Brite? No, no. It's Murphy's. But the windows are open, and the breeze swirls those smells around, mixing them with the scent of an adorable woman She's in her early 30s and she smells great! But her scent is only a part of what I'm smelling as I stand in this space, invisible. I'm just an observer here. What matters most is that the smell - it's a combination of smells including the woman and the cleaning, and the smell is happy (but not "Happy," as that is an entirely different scent by Clinique. Tangent. Sorry!)

    I think the woman is artsy and kind of messy, but she has a date tonight. The combination of the perfect spring day and her date later this evening is the reason why she's cleaning. It's probably why she's happy too. The date and this perfect day.

    E04 is an odd smell, but there's happiness in it. Optimism too. E04 isn't brooding or forceful. It doesn't demand attention. It isn't needy or desperate. Instead, it's clean - very clean - but I can't tell if it's clean with an agenda or clean for the sake of clean itself. Is the woman I imagine here cleaning her home to impress her date later this evening? Or is she cleaning simply because it's a marvelous spring day? I'm not sure, although I am sure the answer is hidden somewhere in the scent. Hhhmmmmm... Based on the scent, I going to guess that she's cleaning for the sake of it. She was probably tidying up her place to make it more presentable for her date, but then she got swept up in the perfectness of a sunny early-spring day and she found herself cleaning everything in sight. And then she looked at the clock and realized it's getting late. It's only 4PM, but her date will arrive at 6:30 and she doesn't want him to think she cleaned the place for him... she doesn't want to go overboard and scare him off... so she's opened the windows in hopes of clearing out the smell even though it isn't really that warm outside.

    And that brings me to my next thought. E04 smells cool. Cool, like an early spring day. It's not summer, but much warmer than winter.

    I consider perfumery to be art. That's an obvious statement as I'm sure most here would agree. But perfumery is also a choice. I smell E04 and I wonder... who makes this choice? Who steps out of the shower, reaches for a towel to dry off and then turns to face the sink, asking "Which scent should I wear today" before opening the medicine cabinet to choose this? This isn't sexy. It isn't alluring. It isn't bold. It isn't entrepreneurial. It isn't even cute. This is the smell of clean. It's clean wood, but not the wood itself. It isn't timeless. Instead, it's a moment in time. A moment of a freshly cleaned home before company arrives on a lovely spring day. In E04, I smell the Pledge on the dining room table and the Murphy cleaner on a hardwood floor, and the spring breeze through open windows which brings in the smell of a freshly mowed lawn and flowers from a windowsill flower box. It's a happy smell.

    The woman whose home smells like this isn't lonely. In fact, she's busy enough that she feels like she doesn't make enough time to clean - REALLY CLEAN - her home. But she has a date tonight and she's happy. As I smell E04, I can sense her optimism about the coming evening, which is partly why she's going a little overboard with the cleaning. Her date is bringing dinner and she has desert in the oven. Is it a lemon meringue pie? Rhubarb? Gah! I can't quite tell. The pie isn't done yet, but almost. And that's good since it needs time to cool.

    So................ that's what I smell in S01E04. I smell clean, but not a human body clean. I smell clean wood, though not the wood itself. I smell spring. I smell happiness and optimism, but I don't smell much perfume. To my nose, the hint of a woman's perfume suggests that this is probably (PROBABLY?) feminine, but it's more cleaner for a home than it is for a person. The woman I described above... she's going to hop in the shower before her date arrives, and she'll wear a perfume that doesn't smell like this. In fact, while I've been typing out my thoughts here, she finished cleaning and took the pie out of the oven. She's now in the shower (and I can't help grinning at that thought). She's debating which perfume to wear tonight. If E04 were one of her choices, it certainly wouldn't be the one she'd pick.

    Is E04 bad? Oh, no. It's just safe. Too safe, at least for her. It's clean, but it's too clean for me and certainly too clean for her. She presents herself as innocent, but she's not. And while showering, she decided to wear a perfume that might give a hint to her date that she's not

    E04 is nice. But she's feeling a little naughty. If E04 were one of her choices, it wouldn't get the job done.

    And that's what I smell. And I'll say it again... WHAT FUN!!!

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Anyway, I guess it's time for more of a report.

    As for my emotional reaction from EO4: It's pleasant. It's content. It's good at doing what it does and it's happy with that. It's not reaching for the stars or dreaming crazy dreams - it's just going about its life, happily devoid of drama and friction. Some people chase happiness by trying to live out crazy dreams (like being an astronaut or a professional motocross rider) and others find happiness by being content with their dull lives and enjoying small pleasant moments (like a good conversation or a warm cat on your lap). EO4 is that second kind of happiness. It's not traveling madly around the world jumping from party to party, it's a good cup of tea and a nice book in a quiet sunny window.

    I find this interesting mostly because most perfumes try to symbolize the adventurous world traveling kind of exciting happiness: A Moroccan spice bazaar, blooming trees on the Italian riviera, a passionate Parisian love affair, an Elizabethan garden party teeming with royalty. Yet EO4 is more of a well-adjusted, happy homebody enjoying a cup of tea looking out over a garden. Perhaps she's on a vacation, but she's enjoying it in a warm, personal way, not as a wild foreign adventure.

    Edit to add: L'Homme, that's a really great description and totally goes along with what I was thinking! Though I somehow imagine a lady a bit older. Probably married and happily so. She doesn't need to impress anybody and is content and something about EO4 symbolizes a happy serene time for her.
    Last edited by rogalal; 26th September 2012 at 06:44 AM.
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  15. #75

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Random observation! Do you have Bond No. 9, Brooklyn? There's an interesting similarity in the drydown of both, but E04 seems simpler, with more citrus.

  16. #76
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Hmmm. So what do I think EO4 technically smells like?

    It's got that wonderful fusion that happens when lemon verbena meets sage and it smells like tea mixed with fresh lemony herb leaves. It's got citrus on top - I smell that hyper-sweet orange that usually gets called mandarin, as well as some green lime-flavored kool-aid. There are also flowers, what reminds me of maybe linden or lime blossom. And then there's the actual tea note. It smells sort of creamy and green like green tea extract, but I tend to believe that it could be mate, like someone here said earlier. In terms of smell, it reminds me of matcha, the powdered green tea. I'm also getting a "clean" vibe from this. It's not full-on fabric softener smell like CKOne, but maybe just a touch of some kind of laundry musk that's helping smooth out all the corners.

    The remarkable thing is how smoothly it all comes together. I think that's why I'm picturing glass - there's no roughness here at all, no cracks in the facade, no single element out of place or even slightly jagged. Anyone who has ever eaten lemongrass knows it's actually quite spicy, but not in EO4. Green tea extract can be overly creamy and end up smelling like cheap spa products, but not in EO4. Those sweet candied citruses are usually a huge pet peeve of mine, but they're so perfectly matched here that they smell perfect.

    As for how it changes over time, it really doesn't do much. In the beginning, the citrus herb tea smell is supported by a thin lattice of the flowers, while after a few hours, the flowers are the stars, with the citrus herb tea playing the supporting role. But that's about it, and like everything else about EO4, the transition is so smooth that it almost doesn't even register.

    For me (and for others, based on what's being said here), this overwhelming smoothness, while I appreciate it from an aesthetic standpoint, end up threatening to make EO4 a little boring. It's like really boring legato classical music or the dullest instrumental smooth jazz. There's technical achievement and artistry there, but it's easy to miss it because it's trying so hard not to offend anyone.

    Edit to add: I haven't smelled Brooklyn since forever... I thought it was grapefruit and leather! Also, I'm not smelling violets or tomato leaf, though I know I'm missing things that will come out with further sniffing. As an example, I can now smell the berry tea smell of coriander in EO4, which I'm sure is also helping create that smooth tea vibe.

    - - - Updated - - -

    As for guessing what this is, I think that could be next to impossible. This is the sort of perfume that could be almost anything from a Marc Jacobs splash to a Jo Malone to a L'Occitane. It could be a little known Italian niche or one of those watery floral L'Artisans that I haven't smelled in years. Or even an especially good Calvin Klein flanker. Pretty much nothing would shock me...

    I went through a phase where I really loved these verbena + sage = tea scents, so I definitely have a few that I want to try next to EO4, not because I want to figure out what it is, but because I want to smell the contrasts and use that to get to know EO4 better. One of my full-bottle favorites is XXXXXXXXXX, which I must admit is remarkably similar to EO4. But XXXXXXXXXX has an irresistible topnote that smells like fresh sparkling lemonade and it lets the piquancy of the verbena poke through, so it has a bright spicy energy to it that is totally smoothed over and missing from EO4. The other similar full-bottle tea scent I have is YYYYYYYYYYYY, but it smells positively filthy next to EO4. YYYYYYYYYYY has signature Ellena pepper on top and the citrus + spices tea is surrounded by a dirty haze that's halfway between wood and mineral.

    Smelling EO4 next to these is giving me more respect for EO4's smoothness. That being said, I still much prefer XXXXXXXXX because it's not afraid to use a little tension and brightness to take the same basic ideas to the next level.
    Last edited by rogalal; 26th September 2012 at 07:22 AM.
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  17. #77

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Beautiful descriptions, thank you for sharing @rogalal & @L'Homme Blanc Individuel!
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  18. #78

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    The opening: A ridiculously smooth mandarin. Chilled lemonade that is sweetened to the point that the acidic bite is now toothless. Or is it lime or lime blossom? Its toothless face is missing enough structure that it's impossible to be sure. A hint of apricot and tea. Osmanthus? I'm guessing there is some. Another floral element that calls to mind pink rose petals that have been soaking in citrus water - cyclamen?

    Any separation of this pastel palette of notes is quickly lost as the notes themselves run into each other - blur each other - like watercolor brush strokes with too much water present. And yet the whole does not appear blurry, but instead radiant. The smell of a sun-soaked cyclamen and empty blue skies. The smell within the bloom, the smell between the space of the petals.

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  19. #79
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    I got my sample on Monday (thanks Red) and am on my third wear.

    Yet another of the lighter transparent things that Chandler seems to like. As others have mentioned, Citrusy and cologne-like on my skin too. I find myself having to apply quite a few sprays in order to produce the level of heart notes needed to get a feel for the thing.

    This one seems cheerful and light-hearted to me, in contrast to the sense of melancholy I got from E03. The citrus persists long past the top notes, but my skin also eats this thing, and once the top notes are past it wears very very close to my skin. Not sure it has the level of creativity and interest that I'd seek it out when compared to others of it's type, but I'm not much of a citrus lover I must admit. Safe as safe can be though, so I have to agree with Chandler about that.

    Dull ? Well maybe. I guess (as with all things calling for subjective judgments) it depends on a person's taste.

    Which leads me to this question :

    Does Chandler select these lighter sorts of things based on a feeling that they represent the future of contemporary perfumery ?

    We've not hit the fullness of Fall or Winter, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    It's interesting - today this mostly smells like soapy flowers on me. It's almost like, upon first sniff, I recognized the tea elements and just sort of focused on them. While now, after a couple of wears, the soap smell is unmistakable and I think there's neroli in here, too.

    And I was judging it as kind of dull compared to my favorite tea scents, which now seems kind of unfair. Are lime blossoms and linden and neroli boring compared to pepper and woods and piquancy? I don't think so. It's just a different kind of "interesting-ness" with a different focus and I'm starting to appreciate that now.
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    Actually, I'm imagining a vase much like this:



    Imagine if you took a picture along the side of it so that the waves look like hills. It's "macro-texture", not "micro-texture", specifically a glass-smooth texture that forms hills. But I'm imagining it as frosted glass because I see it as opaque, not solid.
    Awesome! That's exactly what I was hoping for! Thanks!!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    What a marvelous end to my day! I walked to my mailbox expecting bills, but instead, I found a sample of S01E04. I hadn't asked for one, so I had no idea one was coming, but the moment I saw the name on the package, I knew what it was. Well, I knew it was E04. And I grinned. How could I not? WHAT FUN!!!

    I'm going to give this the ultimate blind review. I haven't seen Mr. Burr's description of E04, and I'm not going to read anything in this thread until I've first posted my thoughts here based on what I smell.

    Hooooooookay!!! Here we gooooo...

    I! Smell! Spring!

    I close my eyes and find myself in a cottage. There's a breeze, and the scent of flowers from a windowsill garden are mixed with the smell of clean. A woman lives here, and she's happy. As I smell E04, I'm trying to figure out if she has company on the way, or if she's cleaning because it's a marvelous sunny spring day. It's early spring, by the way. It's the kind of day when the warmth of the sun feels like a surprise after a long winter. When I lived in Pennsylvania, that was exactly the kind of day I'd tear through my apartment and do some serious spring cleaning. But this isn't about me, because this scent isn't mine. It's hers - this woman whose home I find myself in as I smell this. And I'm wrong. It's not a cottage. I'm in the city. I'm standing in the living room of a cute little bungalow that's close enough to the heart of the city to not be in the burbs, but far enough out to have a lawn and maybe a tree or two too. I think I hear birds. There's just a hint of something here that tells me we're in town. Something... but what? Perhaps it's the lack of something earthy and natural enough to tell my nose that we're in the country?

    Yes, I smell cleaning products here. I smell Pledge and some of that orange hardwood floor cleaner. Orange Brite? No, no. It's Murphy's. But the windows are open, and the breeze swirls those smells around, mixing them with the scent of an adorable woman She's in her early 30s and she smells great! But her scent is only a part of what I'm smelling as I stand in this space, invisible. I'm just an observer here. What matters most is that the smell - it's a combination of smells including the woman and the cleaning, and the smell is happy (but not "Happy," as that is an entirely different scent by Clinique. Tangent. Sorry!)

    I think the woman is artsy and kind of messy, but she has a date tonight. The combination of the perfect spring day and her date later this evening is the reason why she's cleaning. It's probably why she's happy too. The date and this perfect day.

    E04 is an odd smell, but there's happiness in it. Optimism too. E04 isn't brooding or forceful. It doesn't demand attention. It isn't needy or desperate. Instead, it's clean - very clean - but I can't tell if it's clean with an agenda or clean for the sake of clean itself. Is the woman I imagine here cleaning her home to impress her date later this evening? Or is she cleaning simply because it's a marvelous spring day? I'm not sure, although I am sure the answer is hidden somewhere in the scent. Hhhmmmmm... Based on the scent, I going to guess that she's cleaning for the sake of it. She was probably tidying up her place to make it more presentable for her date, but then she got swept up in the perfectness of a sunny early-spring day and she found herself cleaning everything in sight. And then she looked at the clock and realized it's getting late. It's only 4PM, but her date will arrive at 6:30 and she doesn't want him to think she cleaned the place for him... she doesn't want to go overboard and scare him off... so she's opened the windows in hopes of clearing out the smell even though it isn't really that warm outside.

    And that brings me to my next thought. E04 smells cool. Cool, like an early spring day. It's not summer, but much warmer than winter.

    I consider perfumery to be art. That's an obvious statement as I'm sure most here would agree. But perfumery is also a choice. I smell E04 and I wonder... who makes this choice? Who steps out of the shower, reaches for a towel to dry off and then turns to face the sink, asking "Which scent should I wear today" before opening the medicine cabinet to choose this? This isn't sexy. It isn't alluring. It isn't bold. It isn't entrepreneurial. It isn't even cute. This is the smell of clean. It's clean wood, but not the wood itself. It isn't timeless. Instead, it's a moment in time. A moment of a freshly cleaned home before company arrives on a lovely spring day. In E04, I smell the Pledge on the dining room table and the Murphy cleaner on a hardwood floor, and the spring breeze through open windows which brings in the smell of a freshly mowed lawn and flowers from a windowsill flower box. It's a happy smell.

    The woman whose home smells like this isn't lonely. In fact, she's busy enough that she feels like she doesn't make enough time to clean - REALLY CLEAN - her home. But she has a date tonight and she's happy. As I smell E04, I can sense her optimism about the coming evening, which is partly why she's going a little overboard with the cleaning. Her date is bringing dinner and she has desert in the oven. Is it a lemon meringue pie? Rhubarb? Gah! I can't quite tell. The pie isn't done yet, but almost. And that's good since it needs time to cool.

    So................ that's what I smell in S01E04. I smell clean, but not a human body clean. I smell clean wood, though not the wood itself. I smell spring. I smell happiness and optimism, but I don't smell much perfume. To my nose, the hint of a woman's perfume suggests that this is probably (PROBABLY?) feminine, but it's more cleaner for a home than it is for a person. The woman I described above... she's going to hop in the shower before her date arrives, and she'll wear a perfume that doesn't smell like this. In fact, while I've been typing out my thoughts here, she finished cleaning and took the pie out of the oven. She's now in the shower (and I can't help grinning at that thought). She's debating which perfume to wear tonight. If E04 were one of her choices, it certainly wouldn't be the one she'd pick.

    Is E04 bad? Oh, no. It's just safe. Too safe, at least for her. It's clean, but it's too clean for me and certainly too clean for her. She presents herself as innocent, but she's not. And while showering, she decided to wear a perfume that might give a hint to her date that she's not

    E04 is nice. But she's feeling a little naughty. If E04 were one of her choices, it wouldn't get the job done.

    And that's what I smell. And I'll say it again... WHAT FUN!!!
    Amazing description! Really love that. I really see a lot of insight into the scent in that description. Thanks!

    I totally agree - spring as in cool and sunny, feminine but not dainty or effeminate (subtle difference in English words), clean as in cleaned with something citrus-like, fresh as in fresh air and breeze, not deeply passionate or anything like that, but - as you say - happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    Anyway, I guess it's time for more of a report.

    As for my emotional reaction from EO4: It's pleasant. It's content. It's good at doing what it does and it's happy with that. It's not reaching for the stars or dreaming crazy dreams - it's just going about its life, happily devoid of drama and friction. Some people chase happiness by trying to live out crazy dreams (like being an astronaut or a professional motocross rider) and others find happiness by being content with their dull lives and enjoying small pleasant moments (like a good conversation or a warm cat on your lap). EO4 is that second kind of happiness. It's not traveling madly around the world jumping from party to party, it's a good cup of tea and a nice book in a quiet sunny window.

    I find this interesting mostly because most perfumes try to symbolize the adventurous world traveling kind of exciting happiness: A Moroccan spice bazaar, blooming trees on the Italian riviera, a passionate Parisian love affair, an Elizabethan garden party teeming with royalty. Yet EO4 is more of a well-adjusted, happy homebody enjoying a cup of tea looking out over a garden. Perhaps she's on a vacation, but she's enjoying it in a warm, personal way, not as a wild foreign adventure.

    Edit to add: L'Homme, that's a really great description and totally goes along with what I was thinking! Though I somehow imagine a lady a bit older. Probably married and happily so. She doesn't need to impress anybody and is content and something about EO4 symbolizes a happy serene time for her.
    Very cool how you two (and me as well) were thinking along the same lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    Random observation! Do you have Bond No. 9, Brooklyn? There's an interesting similarity in the drydown of both, but E04 seems simpler, with more citrus.
    Agreed! And I think that the greater woodiness of Brooklyn makes it just a touch more masculine.

    Another fragrance that makes me think of a clean room is Etro Mahogany. It has a real hardwood floor vibe that makes me think of a brand new apartment. That one is almost neuter - there just doesn't really feel like there's a gender to it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    Hmmm. So what do I think EO4 technically smells like?

    It's got that wonderful fusion that happens when lemon verbena meets sage and it smells like tea mixed with fresh lemony herb leaves. It's got citrus on top - I smell that hyper-sweet orange that usually gets called mandarin, as well as some green lime-flavored kool-aid. There are also flowers, what reminds me of maybe linden or lime blossom. And then there's the actual tea note. It smells sort of creamy and green like green tea extract, but I tend to believe that it could be mate, like someone here said earlier. In terms of smell, it reminds me of matcha, the powdered green tea. I'm also getting a "clean" vibe from this. It's not full-on fabric softener smell like CKOne, but maybe just a touch of some kind of laundry musk that's helping smooth out all the corners.

    The remarkable thing is how smoothly it all comes together. I think that's why I'm picturing glass - there's no roughness here at all, no cracks in the facade, no single element out of place or even slightly jagged. Anyone who has ever eaten lemongrass knows it's actually quite spicy, but not in EO4. Green tea extract can be overly creamy and end up smelling like cheap spa products, but not in EO4. Those sweet candied citruses are usually a huge pet peeve of mine, but they're so perfectly matched here that they smell perfect.

    As for how it changes over time, it really doesn't do much. In the beginning, the citrus herb tea smell is supported by a thin lattice of the flowers, while after a few hours, the flowers are the stars, with the citrus herb tea playing the supporting role. But that's about it, and like everything else about EO4, the transition is so smooth that it almost doesn't even register.

    For me (and for others, based on what's being said here), this overwhelming smoothness, while I appreciate it from an aesthetic standpoint, end up threatening to make EO4 a little boring. It's like really boring legato classical music or the dullest instrumental smooth jazz. There's technical achievement and artistry there, but it's easy to miss it because it's trying so hard not to offend anyone.

    Edit to add: I haven't smelled Brooklyn since forever... I thought it was grapefruit and leather! Also, I'm not smelling violets or tomato leaf, though I know I'm missing things that will come out with further sniffing. As an example, I can now smell the berry tea smell of coriander in EO4, which I'm sure is also helping create that smooth tea vibe.

    - - - Updated - - -

    As for guessing what this is, I think that could be next to impossible. This is the sort of perfume that could be almost anything from a Marc Jacobs splash to a Jo Malone to a L'Occitane. It could be a little known Italian niche or one of those watery floral L'Artisans that I haven't smelled in years. Or even an especially good Calvin Klein flanker. Pretty much nothing would shock me...

    I went through a phase where I really loved these verbena + sage = tea scents, so I definitely have a few that I want to try next to EO4, not because I want to figure out what it is, but because I want to smell the contrasts and use that to get to know EO4 better. One of my full-bottle favorites is XXXXXXXXXX, which I must admit is remarkably similar to EO4. But XXXXXXXXXX has an irresistible topnote that smells like fresh sparkling lemonade and it lets the piquancy of the verbena poke through, so it has a bright spicy energy to it that is totally smoothed over and missing from EO4. The other similar full-bottle tea scent I have is YYYYYYYYYYYY, but it smells positively filthy next to EO4. YYYYYYYYYYY has signature Ellena pepper on top and the citrus + spices tea is surrounded by a dirty haze that's halfway between wood and mineral.

    Smelling EO4 next to these is giving me more respect for EO4's smoothness. That being said, I still much prefer XXXXXXXXX because it's not afraid to use a little tension and brightness to take the same basic ideas to the next level.
    Nice! I see you're coming at it from a tea angle - which is something I didn't see at first, but which I agree is totally there. And I'm pretty sure I know what XXXXXXXXXX is, but I'll just leave it there, because my sample is small and somewhere I don't remember offhand. I'll just trust your nose on this one!

    Great thoughts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Beautiful descriptions, thank you for sharing @rogalal & @L'Homme Blanc Individuel!
    Very much in agreement. I'm very happy to hear what their noses saw, so to speak! Good work, guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post
    The opening: A ridiculously smooth mandarin. Chilled lemonade that is sweetened to the point that the acidic bite is now toothless. Or is it lime or lime blossom? Its toothless face is missing enough structure that it's impossible to be sure. A hint of apricot and tea. Osmanthus? I'm guessing there is some. Another floral element that calls to mind pink rose petals that have been soaking in citrus water - cyclamen?

    Any separation of this pastel palette of notes is quickly lost as the notes themselves run into each other - blur each other - like watercolor brush strokes with too much water present. And yet the whole does not appear blurry, but instead radiant. The smell of a sun-soaked cyclamen and empty blue skies. The smell within the bloom, the smell between the space of the petals.

    You're saying exactly what I was thinking. That citrus - trying to place it all. And osmanthus, too. Very interesting stuff. Is it there? My nose isn't trained on that one. Not enough to spot it, so I have to take your word.

    Love that picture, though. That clarity of the sky? TOTALLY!

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    I got my sample on Monday (thanks Red) and am on my third wear.

    Yet another of the lighter transparent things that Chandler seems to like. As others have mentioned, Citrusy and cologne-like on my skin too. I find myself having to apply quite a few sprays in order to produce the level of heart notes needed to get a feel for the thing.

    This one seems cheerful and light-hearted to me, in contrast to the sense of melancholy I got from E03. The citrus persists long past the top notes, but my skin also eats this thing, and once the top notes are past it wears very very close to my skin. Not sure it has the level of creativity and interest that I'd seek it out when compared to others of it's type, but I'm not much of a citrus lover I must admit. Safe as safe can be though, so I have to agree with Chandler about that.

    Dull ? Well maybe. I guess (as with all things calling for subjective judgments) it depends on a person's taste.

    Which leads me to this question :

    Does Chandler select these lighter sorts of things based on a feeling that they represent the future of contemporary perfumery ?

    We've not hit the fullness of Fall or Winter, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.
    Great thoughts, amigo - thanks for that! You are saying some things I've thought, too. Safe, pleasant, and I *really* hope this is *not* where fragrance is all going.

    Fortunately, I think not. Chandler is having Carlos Benaïm giving a talk on Spicebomb at the museum on December 13, and I wore Spicebomb today just because that reminded me of it. I thought it was cooling off enough to bring the Spicebomb back out.

    O. M. G. - I just *LOVED* it all day. So no way is perfumery going to the hypoallergenic white poo-mixes, with their citrus-clean fluffy fur and chlorophyll-fresh breath, after they've been taken to the mutt-wash. NO WAY. Oakmoss may be dead, and chypre may be on the verge of forced retirement, but spiky oud, whistle-sharp candy, LMR hyper-spices, and dreamtime woods from Pandora are moving in, and making the world safe for real perfume again. And I sure hope we see some in this series!

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    It's interesting - today this mostly smells like soapy flowers on me. It's almost like, upon first sniff, I recognized the tea elements and just sort of focused on them. While now, after a couple of wears, the soap smell is unmistakable and I think there's neroli in here, too.

    And I was judging it as kind of dull compared to my favorite tea scents, which now seems kind of unfair. Are lime blossoms and linden and neroli boring compared to pepper and woods and piquancy? I don't think so. It's just a different kind of "interesting-ness" with a different focus and I'm starting to appreciate that now.
    I think it's great how we can see so many views of a scent.

    * * * *

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    Which leads me to this question :

    Does Chandler select these lighter sorts of things based on a feeling that they represent the future of contemporary perfumery ?
    I am definitely asking Chandler this question.
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    Does Chandler select these lighter sorts of things based on a feeling that they represent the future of contemporary perfumery ?
    Cool question, would love to hear CB's answer!

    As for osmanthus, if that's in E04 I need to have it! All tea-fig-osmanthus frags share the same delicious note of creamy green lightness, I've been looking to find out what that actually is, a blend or aromachem or natural...
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  24. #84

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Okay, thanks to Red and MonkeyBars passing along his sample, I get a chance to play.

    Even though I didn't participate in the first three untitleds, I've been following the discussion closely since E02 and found it some of the most interesting perfume discussion I've seen. I’m about 6hrs into my first sampling of E04, and here are some of my impressions so far:

    First of all, it's quite an interesting experience smelling something blindly, which I haven't really done before. It takes me back to shopping for my first fragrances when I was much younger and less knowledgeable. Even though I could see the label, it didn't mean anything to me, I didn't really have any expectations or preconceptions for what I was smelling, or any clear frame of reference for judging it. Since being on Basenotes, I've felt that "identity politics" (label preconceptions, marketing hype, forum chatter, etc) is a huge part of people's perceptions of perfume, despite their frequent and vehement denials. Smelling something blind has dramatized just how much I do rely on these cues in interpreting and judging what I smell, and has left me feeling a little disoriented -- in a refreshing way.

    Of course, now I DO have a wider frame of reference and I tend to try to understand new scents through associations with familiar ones. My immediate association with E04 is Yang by Jacques Fath, one of my first purchases after joining Basenotes, and my number one favorite for a time. E04 also puts me in mind of other green tea fragrances I know, such as Bulgari The Vert, L’Occitane, and The Body Shop Lemon Tea perfume oil, but Yang is the one that I am most familiar with and the one I most identify (from memory) with E04. I haven’t worn Yang in a long time, so I’m going to have to test it alongside E04 and see if my memory is at all accurate.

    I’m not getting the clean vibe that some others seem to be getting. Not that E04 smells at all dirty, but I’m connecting it so much to sweetish green tea that it’s registering as foody more than clean. It’s definitely smooth and pleasant, but not necessarily timid and boring; I’ve been wearing it for 6hrs, and I’m not getting tired of sniffing it yet.

    I’m getting such a strong tea vibe from E04 that I’m curious about Chandler’s mention of the mystery note in the title that he thinks is underused. Green tea doesn’t strike me as a terribly underused note. Maybe he’s referring to the citrus top note. But to me (so far) that is unremarkable. I’m just perceiving lemon. Not because it smells like lemon, exactly; the citrus in E04 is rounder and sweeter than lemon. But I associate lemon with tea, and there is not a strong enough cue in this citrus to clearly differentiate it (not that I am very good at distinguishing citrus notes to begin with).

    So far, I’m kind of digging E04, and definitely enjoying participating in this experience.
    Just because it happened to you doesn't make it interesting.

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellsLike View Post
    It takes me back to shopping for my first fragrances when I was much younger and less knowledgeable. Even though I could see the label, it didn't mean anything to me, I didn't really have any expectations or preconceptions for what I was smelling, or any clear frame of reference for judging it. Since being on Basenotes, I've felt that "identity politics" (label preconceptions, marketing hype, forum chatter, etc) is a huge part of people's perceptions of perfume....
    I'm still sort of the same way myself, but I must admit that since I've become somewhat familiar with certain lines, I really do find myself having expectations of things I know have come from that line.

    Is that a bad thing ? As someone who worked as an artist for many years, I found it a huge compliment when people said they were able to recognize my work on sight. The idea that my work had become mature enough to reflect a certain consistency of style and identity was encouraging to me in my development as an artist.

    Did it mean that I was constrained within restrictive parameters ? Perhaps, but I found that there was still a lot of room for creativity within those stylistic parameters.

    So personally, I don't find myself bothered by the fact that perfume lines I enjoy maintain a certain consistency of identity, much in the way that artists from other fields such as music and the visual arts have developed a recognizable style and identity. And I think you are right about how people tend to howl when lines like Lutens appear to step outside the boundaries of what people have come to expect from them.

    Having said all that, it sure is an education to come to these Untitled things without any specific set of preconceptions.

    Aside from the notes that Chandler has provided us with, that is, and the fact that he's the one who has selected them.

    In a sense, it's almost as though he's setting before us his own Fredric Malle-like collection of things.

    Which is also kind of cool.

    .

  26. #86

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellsLike View Post
    I’m not getting the clean vibe that some others seem to be getting. Not that E04 smells at all dirty, but I’m connecting it so much to sweetish green tea that it’s registering as foody more than clean. It’s definitely smooth and pleasant, but not necessarily timid and boring; I’ve been wearing it for 6hrs, and I’m not getting tired of sniffing it yet.

    I’m getting such a strong tea vibe from E04 that I’m curious about Chandler’s mention of the mystery note in the title that he thinks is underused. Green tea doesn’t strike me as a terribly underused note. Maybe he’s referring to the citrus top note. But to me (so far) that is unremarkable. I’m just perceiving lemon. Not because it smells like lemon, exactly; the citrus in E04 is rounder and sweeter than lemon. But I associate lemon with tea, and there is not a strong enough cue in this citrus to clearly differentiate it (not that I am very good at distinguishing citrus notes to begin with).

    So far, I’m kind of digging E04, and definitely enjoying participating in this experience.
    I don't get "clean" from E04 as much as I do "precise". Rather than an woman cleaning, the fragrance brings to mind a calligrapher carefully transcribing a text onto a scroll. I agree that its a happy scent - not euphoric, but contented.

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    I'm quite surprised no one has mentioned the huge violet note in this. It's quite possible I'm just ultrasensitive to ionones though.

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyBars View Post
    I'm quite surprised no one has mentioned the huge violet note in this. It's quite possible I'm just ultrasensitive to ionones though.
    I think I may have an explanation. I suspect that there is a particular, common aromachemical (not ionones) that is normally used for violet, that is not being used here. Perfumers - have at it!

    I normally consider myself hypersensitive to violet - but I think it's that I'm just sensitive to a particular aromachemical (definitely not ionones) - and whatever it is, it's in Creed's Love in Black, Bulgari Blu II, and a bunch of [allegedly] violet-predominant scents, but it's NOT in S01E04, because I don't get it here at all.

    Which is really interesting. It means that what I call violet is probably, in fact, some kind of aromachemical used for violet.
    * * * *

  29. #89

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Have not been so lucky to have an opportunity to participate in Chandlers project, but I commend him for making up a fun game and involving so many people without inventing another brand or house to clutter the market! We are all addicted to scent, and this is just a fun game. I hope some day soon to have an opportunity to plauy along!

    A success as this couldnt have happened for a better man than Chandler...back before I was a fragrance addict like I am now, back when I owned 3 bottles of cologne (Aqua de gio, kenneth cole black and polo blue), I wrote chandler a letter to ask for advice identifying a scent my father used to wear before he passed away. Chandler wrote me back within 24 hours and helped me figure it out. I had NO IDEA how fortunate I was to have had his help at the time. I now cannot believe he gave my silly quandry the time of day!!! A great man indeed.

    CHEERS!

  30. #90

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyBars View Post
    I'm quite surprised no one has mentioned the huge violet note in this. It's quite possible I'm just ultrasensitive to ionones though.
    Wow. That went right by me. I have to admit, I'm less interested in the name of E04 than I am interested in what's in it. There's something earthy in there that absolutely baffles me.

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    So you guys inspired me to wear my sample of Alpha Ionone yesterday. I hadn't tried it before and it was really interesting. It had the bright violet smell I expected in the initial blast, but I hadn't expected it to have so much of that suede smell underneath. In fact, after a while, the violet smell deteriorated to a smell of red berries brightened with a nostril-burning undertone of vodka or turpentine, but the suede smell kept going for hours. I'd even go so far as to say that when I describe a smell as suede, this is the chemical I'm smelling.

    That being said, I still don't understand how this fits into EO4. I'm not doubting that it could be there, but if it is, it's just humming in the background, adding chemical brightness and a vaguely leathery depth (perhaps that "something earthy" that L'Homme smells), neither of which are featured enough in the finished scent that I can really smell them. It's kind of like linalool, which is supposedly in pretty much every perfume in existence, but that I never notice...
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by walkdogg View Post
    Have not been so lucky to have an opportunity to participate in Chandlers project, but I commend him for making up a fun game and involving so many people without inventing another brand or house to clutter the market! We are all addicted to scent, and this is just a fun game. I hope some day soon to have an opportunity to plauy along!

    A success as this couldnt have happened for a better man than Chandler...back before I was a fragrance addict like I am now, back when I owned 3 bottles of cologne (Aqua de gio, kenneth cole black and polo blue), I wrote chandler a letter to ask for advice identifying a scent my father used to wear before he passed away. Chandler wrote me back within 24 hours and helped me figure it out. I had NO IDEA how fortunate I was to have had his help at the time. I now cannot believe he gave my silly quandry the time of day!!! A great man indeed.

    CHEERS!
    Great story! Thanks for that! Yeah, the fragrance world is a pretty cool place - and people like him are the reason.

    (PS - if you want to play, just PM me your address and I can send you a bit to sniff in the next round.)
    * * * *

  33. #93

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    I think that the greater woodiness of Brooklyn makes it just a touch more masculine.

    Another fragrance that makes me think of a clean room is Etro Mahogany. It has a real hardwood floor vibe that makes me think of a brand new apartment. That one is almost neuter - there just doesn't really feel like there's a gender to it.
    The more I smell E04, the more it reminds me of Brooklyn, except that it's less dense to my nose and a bit more feminine. Not that Brooklyn is a particularly dense fragrance. It sure isn't. But E04 seems to float. It's airy. Still, their similarities are striking.

    If the Untitled Series is going to last a year, I can't imagine why Mr. Burr would release E04 in September. E04 smells like April. Or May. E04 is the spring. It may even be late spring. Does E04 smell like September? No way. And it certainly isn't something to wear in October or November. E04 smells like a scent I would have put away this month in anticipation of autumn.
    Last edited by L'Homme Blanc Individuel; 1st October 2012 at 07:14 AM.

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    The more I smell E04, the more it reminds me of Brooklyn, except that it's less dense to my nose and a bit more feminine. Not that Brooklyn is a particularly dense fragrance, but E04 seems to float. Their similarities are striking.

    If the Untitled Series is going to last a year, I can't imagine why Mr. Burr would release E04 in September. E04 smells like April. Or May. September? No way. E04 is the spring. It may even be late spring.
    I have a sneaking suspicion that Chandler's picks are going to be just a wee bit topheavy on spring scents!
    * * * *

  35. #95
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    So you guys inspired me to wear my sample of Alpha Ionone yesterday.
    Thanks for your impressions. Quite interesting. Sort of your own "Molecule 04" experiment.

    I was under the impression from Luca Turin's writing that the classic violet molecule is methyl ionone. However, I have virtually no experience with pure synthetics myself.

  36. #96

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    The reveal is here:
    http://www.cafleurebon.com/mark-behn...series-s01e04/

    Thanks, Mark, for asking my stupid question, CB's answer was so blunt it made me chuckle
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    *need to polish up my knowledge of art history & aesthetics*
    Well yes, us poor plebeians, mired in conveying our perceptions of fragrance via the language of notes. Even though the makers themselves chose to use the name of the key ingredient in the perfume's title.

    But I see what he's getting at, even if the rest of us don't naturally speak in the language he recommends.

    Seeing beyond the notes themselves is a good exercise for our minds, hearts and imaginations, as well as our senses.

    .

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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    Well yes, us poor plebeians, mired in conveying our perceptions of fragrance via the language of notes. Even though the makers themselves chose to use the name of the key ingredient in the perfume's title.
    LOL so true indeed, I felt stupid!!! I guess it takes an art historian to truly appreciate artful fragrance? hm

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    But I see what he's getting at, even if the rest of us don't naturally speak in the language he recommends.

    Seeing beyond the notes themselves is a good exercise for our minds, hearts and imaginations, as well as our senses.
    Totally agree, that's why I actually prefer the imagery, you, guys, so beautifully convey in the BN threads with each episode, to references of art history & aesthetics. At least the imagery in these threads is something I can actually translate into scent.

    Just like with E05 I really need to look up
    -Mies van der Rohe’s famous dicturm of modernism
    -philosophical musings of pop singer Heidi Montag
    -a quintessential contemporary perfumer
    -the literalist style
    -contemporary figuratism
    -photo realism
    -plush, gold-leaf-and scarlet-velvet romanticism
    -synthetic-curtain post-Romanticist sensuality
    -21st century romanticism

    So that's 9 different art history classes I would need to refresh LOL

    I also wonder if the perfumers presented as artists also took art history
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04



    BURR STRAFES MATERIAL REDUCTIONISM WITH F-BOMB

    FRADGE REPORT



    _____________________
    MAGIC MOMENT: @13:05
    Components Union Uproar
    Vanilla: I'm Calling in Sick

    Yuzu Surges: Y:49 V:47__
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    "Leave Vanilla Alone"____


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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    I'm kind of at a loss for commentary. Has everyone watched the video yet? Did Chandler just call all of us stupid for daring to talk about what the perfume smelled like? It sure sounded like he did...

    Does everyone remember his bloated introduction for what turned out to be Mugler Colonge where he blathered on using that horrid heroin/penetration metaphor? So, not only does he think that's how we should be intelligently discussing perfume (gee, I can symbolically experience the heroin, but I'm having trouble discerning the penetration... ), but he literally called us stupid for saying that EO4 smelled like tea when it was OBVIOUSLY an antique mirror...

    Well, enough trolling. I can see how Chandler is really trying to elevate perfume criticism out of the chemical realm and I think there's a place for that. But calling what we do stupid is pretty tacky. Especially when I think pretty much everyone except Chandler would argue that any critique of perfume that doesn't include what it smells like is just silly.
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Yes, I just watched it, but I went back and watched it twice - both for my little joke, and to really listen more closely.

    I *REALLY* don't think he called us (or anybody) stupid. Honestly. But I think that he *IS* saying - more or less - is that we aren't properly, or frequently enough, talking about the ART - because we're talking mostly implementation, and neither algorithm nor architecture (to use software-speak). In the big picture, I totally agree with that.

    All of them (implementation, architecture, and algorithm) bleed into each other, and you have to talk about all of these things to talk deeply, but we are tending to lean toward a certain lowest common denominator of communication centered on the nuts and bolts of implementation.

    For instance, if somebody here made an argument that the fragrance "Pillows of Paradise" used a kind of powdery musk in the base, we would all be fighting over whether it was set in vanilla, tonka, or *whatever*, and nobody would be talking about all kinds of other stuff that might veer closer to art. Does the powder feel innocent or scandalous? We might stumble accidentally into words like "voluptuous", but would we stop to think deeply about that? Was something done technically WITH some component to create some kind of feeling or mood? Is it warm, cool, airy, breezy, cloud-like, bedroom-like, whatever?

    Some of us prize reviews that get a bit metaphorical, but we tend to shy away from them as the common mode of communication - leaving them to be little treasures for the fanboys and fangrls.

    And something we aren't doing at all, which Chandler seems to gravitate to, is exactly what you were doing earlier - trying to come up with geometric forms of description. To me those are really nice, and what I think is interesting, is how well they communicate. HOWEVER (point awarded to components) it would seem that you need a firm communication strategy, based on (cough) notes, in order to go beyond that. Or at least, that's the way it seemingly works here.

    I think that chemistry has its place in the language as well, but it's not needed to talk about the art at all levels, particularly the higher ones. I believe that he's totally right about one thing. I think that at a high level, art history and art theory is completely transferrable to fragrance. Where I have a minor quibble is down low, closer to implementation. I think that there are unique challenges posed by the nature of the sense involved, and that there is new work needed there. Transferring anything to a new platform involves refactoring carefully at a low level, or you're in trouble. That much is almost a certainty in my opinion.

    Here are one perfumer's thoughts on language and fragrance. I was pleased to see that he seems to agree with us in many ways.

    http://bigthink.com/ideas/23982

    *****

    BTW, I was pleased to see that it was Yuzu Rouge. I had initially guessed Yuzu Man before even sniffing it, based on analysis of his description. It was pretty clear that it was something else when I got it, and Yuzu Rouge was my next guess. But as a great measure of how much this series is changing me, I have gotten to the point that the guess wasn't worth sending off to Lucky Scent for a sample.

    $ echo "My first guess for S01E04, based on the description, is Caron Yuzu Man" | shasum -a 256
    afc78f30b37712da00909f26c5f0309f530a63493bd533ba99 87423599be01bb -
    * * * *

  42. #102
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    I sort of hated Yuzu Rouge when I smelled it years ago.
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    I sort of hated Yuzu Rouge when I smelled it years ago.
    I think I may have smelled it once, when I tested a few scents from that house, and I suppose that I found it unremarkable at that time. And I have to say that I think I like Yuzu Man a bit better. They are - IMO - a lot alike. I agree that yuzu is an underused note.
    * * * *

  44. #104

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    HOWEVER (point awarded to components) it would seem that you need a firm communication strategy, based on (cough) notes, in order to go beyond that. Or at least, that's the way it seemingly works here.

    $ echo "My first guess for S01E04, based on the description, is Caron Yuzu Man" | shasum -a 256
    afc78f30b37712da00909f26c5f0309f530a63493bd533ba99 87423599be01bb -
    I wouldn't know a Yuzu if it jumped up and hit me. Now tea, on the other hand, I know. So I easily identified a tea note in E04, but not the specific citrus. Make that my argument in favor of at least some acknowledgement of the notes, or component smells, when discussing a fragrance. I agree that it would be difficult to get to the point of aesthetic critique without understanding the materials. To take the music analogy a little further, if you write about symphonies you'd better be able to recognize the difference between a violin and a viola. But nobody would bother to read your review if all you said was that the violins played more in the first movement and the violas more in the second. You might need to describe how the lighthearted theme played by the violins became contemplative or even melancholy when repeated by the viola. In other words, talk about the effect the artist achieved, with perhaps some discussion of how it was achieved.

    Hopefully, when one is able to objectively perceive the aesthetic of a fragrance one can capture the whole in a way that resonates with others. When Burr described E04 as "a girl with flawless skin who's 16 years old in a summer dress on a sunny morning" I thought AH HA! that's exactly right.

    After discovering what E04 was, and who the perfumeur is, I realized that I own two other scents he's done: Par Amour Toujour and Azzaro Pure Vetiver. I got the Pure Vetiver as a toss in with a swap, and I thought it was surprisingly nice for an inexpensive mass market scent. I even think you can see a hint of where he ended up going with Yuzu Rouge in its subtle use of grapefruit, cardamom and nutmeg (at least as I remember - haven't worn it recently).

    As I was with L'Etrog, I'm glad I was introduced to Yuzu Rouge through the Untitled Series. It sure beats blind buys and random sampling. So I'm in again for E05, and I'm expecting something more worldly than the 16 year old girl of E04.

  45. #105
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    I wouldn't know a Yuzu if it jumped up and hit me. Now tea, on the other hand, I know. So I easily identified a tea note in E04, but not the specific citrus. Make that my argument in favor of at least some acknowledgement of the notes, or component smells, when discussing a fragrance. I agree that it would be difficult to get to the point of aesthetic critique without understanding the materials. To take the music analogy a little further, if you write about symphonies you'd better be able to recognize the difference between a violin and a viola. But nobody would bother to read your review if all you said was that the violins played more in the first movement and the violas more in the second. You might need to describe how the lighthearted theme played by the violins became contemplative or even melancholy when repeated by the viola. In other words, talk about the effect the artist achieved, with perhaps some discussion of how it was achieved.

    Hopefully, when one is able to objectively perceive the aesthetic of a fragrance one can capture the whole in a way that resonates with others. When Burr described E04 as "a girl with flawless skin who's 16 years old in a summer dress on a sunny morning" I thought AH HA! that's exactly right.

    After discovering what E04 was, and who the perfumeur is, I realized that I own two other scents he's done: Par Amour Toujour and Azzaro Pure Vetiver. I got the Pure Vetiver as a toss in with a swap, and I thought it was surprisingly nice for an inexpensive mass market scent. I even think you can see a hint of where he ended up going with Yuzu Rouge in its subtle use of grapefruit, cardamom and nutmeg (at least as I remember - haven't worn it recently).

    As I was with L'Etrog, I'm glad I was introduced to Yuzu Rouge through the Untitled Series. It sure beats blind buys and random sampling. So I'm in again for E05, and I'm expecting something more worldly than the 16 year old girl of E04.
    Very much agreed with your music analogy.

    I guessed yuzu solely on the basis of the facts that (1) it actually is underused, (2) it's citrus, fitting his hints about "eau fraiche", etc., and (3) his other two underused components were Asian and even Japanese (shiso and ginger), and Burr is a japanophile, so it pretty much had to be yuzu.

    I think that's pretty neat that you have two other scents by the same perfumer. I would NOT have guessed that.

    Glad you're in for E05! And - yeah - even if we don't get Mae West on this round, I would not be complaining if we got Milla Jovovich or Sarah Silverman. Or if Burr simply has to be Burr, maybe Ziyi Zhang.
    * * * *

  46. #106

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    Thank you for sharing, Red
    As for me, I'm kinda of done. For now. Unless I see a good example of the artsy language of scent so that I can actually get what that is, I'm holding my tongue.
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  47. #107

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    When I hear Chandler Burr say E04 is one of the most exquisite works of olfactory art, I am somewhat disheartened. In fact, I don't quite see how he would rate something like Givenchy Play (or Play Sport, for that matter - although this he hasn't reviewed) as pedestrian, when it too is as balanced and perfect, in a commercial-sheen sense, as L'Etrog or Yuzu Rouge, and arguably more complex than either. Play Sport is actually more in line with these scents - ultra-sheer and refined and simple and very very tonal - a pure and rich singular tone.

    Something tells me that if we reversed this experiment and sent him Play Sport, blind, he'd end up loving it and describe it in lavish prose.

    I do love some modern/sheer works, but I disagree with him in a sense about these simple scents being more difficult to compose (and is he implying then, technically superior?) than a truly complex scent (like say, Interlude Woman). Maybe, before there was a glut of them on the market, they were as difficult or more difficult than the more complex/dense scents - and I do agree that there's less room to hide, but there are so many scents in this vein and there have been for so long that I think it's disingenuous to imply what he seems to be implying, especially given the ease with which perfumers can view the formula (or at least a pretty damn good sketch) of whatever strikes their fancy through gc/ms.
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  48. #108

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    I sort of hated Yuzu Rouge when I smelled it years ago.
    Funny you should mention that. I smell many similarities between Yuzu Rouge and Brooklyn by Bond No. 9. And, interestingly enough, I hated Brooklyn. But now, I have a newfound respect for it.

    I think this Untitled Series is forcing me to take a different approach to smelling a scent.

    When I'm looking for a scent to buy, I have a goal. I want something that wears marvelously on my skin and serves a purpose for me. I may be looking for a date scent or a work scent. Something that would become part of my wardrobe. How it serves me is very important, much like trying on a pair of pants and looking in the mirror. When smelling a scent, the first thing I judge is: "Does this fit?" Right or wrong, that's what I do.

    But I can't take that approach with the Untitled series. I can't because they're random, other than that they fit the profile of a Chandler Burr favorite. It wouldn't even make sense to try to judge them based on how they fit me. Instead, I take in the scent for what it is. That really helps in terms of discovering the scent as a work of art... but is art the only purpose of a scent?

  49. #109

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    but is art the only purpose of a scent?
    Excellent question and I can't agree more with your argumentation.

    I LOVE functional fragrance, meaning all fragrance that is not exclusively meant to be sold as a perfume. It is also the area of perfumery that interest me the most as it is loads more challenging than fine fragrance. It combines cosmetic chemistry with fragrance chemistry and is imho the area where most innovation is done.
    I believe it was Turin that wrote something about some fabric softener that he would love to have bottled? That's how I feel.

    Thus I think one can see fragrance as functional (in this case including fragrances that are fit to wear to a specific situation) and sometimes as art. The classic example of Secretions Magnifique, totally unwearable but such fun concept and execution!

    Perfume as art must have something else, the 'je ne sais quoi' factor like any other object of art that you can admire in a museum or exposition, but wouldn't use to tile the bathroom It totally fits into Burr's purpose of this series and his role as the curator of the department of olfactory art at MAD.

    Unfortunately it demands a whole other perspective at experiencing perfume, a perspective that is imho difficult to grasp for several reasons: a) it demands a deep knowledge of art history and art aesthetics; b) it demands using a new language that most of us haven't yet mastered; c) it demands the willingness and ability to see it with CB's eyes.

    I think it would be loads easier to just go to an olfactory exposition where CB guides you through every single piece and explains what he sees and means. Atm my main observation is that CB doesn't seem to have the patience to be a good teacher. It's like he expects the participants to speak fluently Japanese by talking to them in Japanese about perfume for just 5 minutes each month. Only the few that actually master the language will be able to follow and appreciate.
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  50. #110

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    I guessed yuzu solely on the basis of the facts that (1) it actually is underused, (2) it's citrus, fitting his hints about "eau fraiche", etc., and (3) his other two underused components were Asian and even Japanese (shiso and ginger), and Burr is a japanophile, so it pretty much had to be yuzu.
    I had forgotten that Burr was a Japanophile. Japan fascinates me (ergo my familiarity with "The Book of Tea," which I mentioned in discussing S01E03) , and I would say I have a love-hate relationship with the culture. I love that they will escalate anything to an art form and codify it (kubuki, flower arranging, baseball). I hate the discrimination against women and their objectification, prevalent in Japanese culture. Such an odd place, so different from Western culture.

  51. #111

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    I wouldn't know a Yuzu if it jumped up and hit me. Now tea, on the other hand, I know. So I easily identified a tea note in E04, but not the specific citrus. Make that my argument in favor of at least some acknowledgement of the notes, or component smells, when discussing a fragrance. I agree that it would be difficult to get to the point of aesthetic critique without understanding the materials. To take the music analogy a little further, if you write about symphonies you'd better be able to recognize the difference between a violin and a viola. But nobody would bother to read your review if all you said was that the violins played more in the first movement and the violas more in the second. You might need to describe how the lighthearted theme played by the violins became contemplative or even melancholy when repeated by the viola. In other words, talk about the effect the artist achieved, with perhaps some discussion of how it was achieved.
    I approached E04, the same way, as a tea fragrance with some sort of citrus on top, since it resonated with me as similar to other tea fragrances I know, particularly Yang by Jacques Fath.

    The analogy to music makes sense to me, to a degree. We often approach music through instrumentation, genre, style and other descriptive technical and formal elements before, apart from and/or entwined with our aesthetic and emotional responses. And many (all?) forms of music may become MORE aesthetically and emotionally accessible with greater technical and formal understanding.

    Besides, as we well know, "notes" themselves are often more poetry (and/or marketing) than technical description. Tea is my real world reference for E04, but it doesn't literally smell like tea to me, as much as it reminds me of other fragrances that feature a "tea" note, probably none of which contain any actual tea as a raw material. So notes are a kind of impressionistic, associative language for understanding fragrances as much (or more than) a reductive materialistic one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    Very much agreed with your music analogy.

    I guessed yuzu solely on the basis of the facts that (1) it actually is underused, (2) it's citrus, fitting his hints about "eau fraiche", etc., and (3) his other two underused components were Asian and even Japanese (shiso and ginger), and Burr is a japanophile, so it pretty much had to be yuzu.
    I made the same guess about yuzu, based on the description, and did a directory search on fragrances with yuzu in the title, but I can't really identify yuzu directly by smell and had no experience with any of the yuzu-named fragrances, so they couldn't serve as reference points.
    Just because it happened to you doesn't make it interesting.

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  52. #112

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Hi everyone.
    Red The Fradge Report you crack me up, Bravo!

    Now sliding the soapbox over stepping up and speaking in my piercing yet somehow lovable(?) voice:

    I wanted to chime in on the idea that Chandler looks down on us for thinking of notes first. He doesn't think less of us but he does passionately disagree with us, thus the F-bomb.
    I hope you can tell I am somewhere in the middle on this. I very much believe if there is ever going to be an appreciation of Olfactory Art there has to be someone who steps up and applies a framework for the rest of us to build upon. One of the reasons I think what Chandler is doing is so important is that he is one of maybe two or three people who can command the attention of all the relevant stakeholders and get them into the room. From there I think we can take it on our own.
    I believe the catalog he authors for The Art of Scent exhibit is going to be the foundation on which all of us eventually do build a consistent way of conversing about Olfactory Art. I see his identification of Schools of Perfumery as a place for us to have a serious discussion about what belongs in each category as well as which olfactory artists excel at a particular style.
    Irina I don't think you have to have an art history degree to be part of this discussion but as a place to start that is the template Chandler is laying down. From there it will hopefully be a discussion among those of us who believe in the existence of Olfactory Art and we will agree and disagree and eventually evolve the discussion and form a vocabulary. People like you need to be part of this and not check out but instead help shape it. If this is to be truly successful Chandler needs to have voices which are willing to challenge and provoke his notions, this can't be a one-way conversation.

    It is my belief that there is a place for notes in this evolving discussion. You can't talk about Eau Duelle without mentioning vanilla it just doesn't make sense to me. You can't talk about Yuzu Rouge without mentioning the tea and yuzu. Artists have been spoken of by their ingredients before; Picasso's Blue Period or Red Period, Monet's Red Period, the marble used in Michelangelo's sculptures. What I agree with Chandler about is it can't just be about the notes. When it is special, when it is something we would call Olfactory Art it should make us feel something and that is what we need to evolve a vocabulary for.

    Stepping down from the soapbox taking a drink and looking forward to the discussion.
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  53. #113
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    I have to admit that I was ready to write off this whole thing. But I do think Chandler has a valid point, though I don't feel he made it very well in that video.

    If you're looking at a painting in a museum and you study the brushstrokes and the way the oil paints were mixed and then just stop, thinking you understand and have experienced the painting even though you haven't given any thought to the subject of the painting or the emotion or the symbolism or the history behind it, that really is pretty stupid.

    I've definitely been guilty of this in perfume criticism, mostly when I find a scent technically flawed and then don't bother looking for the art or the intent behind it. On a larger scale, we do tend to spend a lot more time telling each other what a perfume smells like than we do how it makes us feel, but I think, especially in an internet setting where we're talking to people who aren't in the room with us smelling the same thing, that's kind of a requirement.

    That being said, art historians and critics DO look at the materials and techniques used in art. All the time. So I don't believe that eliminating this from the discussion is required in order to reach a higher level of communication - Actually, I'd argue the opposite. Once we had all established that we smelled the tea in EO4, we could talk about it more easily having agreed on a group vocabulary.

    And, as one last personal point, I really don't like when the conversation gets too "elevated." After 4 years of university comparative literature, I know how deep criticism can get up its own ass, to the point where it's nothing more than meaningless buffoonery and vocabulary showboating. While I think there's a place for that in academia, I'd hate to see us all sitting around spouting a bunch of obscure philosophical arguments at each other, all of us trying to sound smarter than the last person by using increasingly obscure reference points while completely ignoring what the perfume we're supposedly talking about actually smells like.
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  54. #114

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    I have to admit that I was ready to write off this whole thing. But I do think Chandler has a valid point, though I don't feel he made it very well in that video.

    If you're looking at a painting in a museum and you study the brushstrokes and the way the oil paints were mixed and then just stop, thinking you understand and have experienced the painting even though you haven't given any thought to the subject of the painting or the emotion or the symbolism or the history behind it, that really is pretty stupid.

    I've definitely been guilty of this in perfume criticism, mostly when I find a scent technically flawed and then don't bother looking for the art or the intent behind it. On a larger scale, we do tend to spend a lot more time telling each other what a perfume smells like than we do how it makes us feel, but I think, especially in an internet setting where we're talking to people who aren't in the room with us smelling the same thing, that's kind of a requirement.

    That being said, art historians and critics DO look at the materials and techniques used in art. All the time. So I don't believe that eliminating this from the discussion is required in order to reach a higher level of communication - Actually, I'd argue the opposite. Once we had all established that we smelled the tea in EO4, we could talk about it more easily having agreed on a group vocabulary.

    And, as one last personal point, I really don't like when the conversation gets too "elevated." After 4 years of university comparative literature, I know how deep criticism can get up its own ass, to the point where it's nothing more than meaningless buffoonery and vocabulary showboating. While I think there's a place for that in academia, I'd hate to see us all sitting around spouting a bunch of obscure philosophical arguments at each other, all of us trying to sound smarter than the last person by using increasingly obscure reference points while completely ignoring what the perfume we're supposedly talking about actually smells like.
    The great thing about these discussions of the Untitled Series scents is that even though we're not in the same room, we are all smelling the same thing. That does allow us to move beyond just describing what we smell and to start talking about the overall effect of the fragrance as a work of art. If we choose to continue to participate.

    I couldn't agree more about (bad) university classes in comparative literature. I will admit here and now that I reject post-modernism in its entirety as the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on/by academia. But I've recovered from the trauma of my university experience and have discovered that independent study can be worthwhile -- even if it sometimes involves philosophical tomes (I always get evangelical about the most recent thought-provoking book I've read, and tend to reference it and quote from it to anyone who will listen. If you've got a minute, let me tell you about "On Being Authentic"...) And I hope we can all be charitable enough to presume that the person spouting obscure arguments is doing it out of a desire to understand or be understood instead of to sound smart.

  55. #115
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    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Thank you for sharing, Red
    As for me, I'm kinda of done. For now. Unless I see a good example of the artsy language of scent so that I can actually get what that is, I'm holding my tongue.
    I personally think that the artsy language of scent evolves as we speak. I say, stick around and help it evolve!

    I don't think there is really ever any final story on the language of anything, much less scent. It's just a flow of information in a sea of information - it's whatever happens. Sooner or later, the paths become clear, and they become powerful, and it's beautiful. So don't wait for it to settle - jump in and swim!

    Quote Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post
    When I hear Chandler Burr say E04 is one of the most exquisite works of olfactory art, I am somewhat disheartened. In fact, I don't quite see how he would rate something like Givenchy Play (or Play Sport, for that matter - although this he hasn't reviewed) as pedestrian, when it too is as balanced and perfect, in a commercial-sheen sense, as L'Etrog or Yuzu Rouge, and arguably more complex than either. Play Sport is actually more in line with these scents - ultra-sheer and refined and simple and very very tonal - a pure and rich singular tone.

    Something tells me that if we reversed this experiment and sent him Play Sport, blind, he'd end up loving it and describe it in lavish prose.

    I do love some modern/sheer works, but I disagree with him in a sense about these simple scents being more difficult to compose (and is he implying then, technically superior?) than a truly complex scent (like say, Interlude Woman). Maybe, before there was a glut of them on the market, they were as difficult or more difficult than the more complex/dense scents - and I do agree that there's less room to hide, but there are so many scents in this vein and there have been for so long that I think it's disingenuous to imply what he seems to be implying, especially given the ease with which perfumers can view the formula (or at least a pretty damn good sketch) of whatever strikes their fancy through gc/ms.
    SOS - I really think the most important thing we can do for Chandler is not to put his viewpoint on a pedestal. I believe that he *IS* able to see art in these things, and that we can learn from him, and learn from what he shows us. But I also believe that *WE* are able to see beauty and intent and feeling (and art) in things as well, and that neither of these diminishes the other. Coming back to what I somewhat accidentally got Irina to believe with me - that its only our expectations and inability to perceive that are at fault - I really feel that the potential beauty awaiting in scent is far, far bigger than our current grasp. And when I say "our", I include Chandler in that word. Chandler is able to find something which is beautiful and artistic in a scent, but he is by no means the only person who can, nor is he seeing (or not seeing) the only beauty in these things.

    I do agree with both you and Chandler about simple scents. I have always been a firm believer in the idea that novel simplicity is much harder than novel complexity. But everything you're saying is true as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    Funny you should mention that. I smell many similarities between Yuzu Rouge and Brooklyn by Bond No. 9. And, interestingly enough, I hated Brooklyn. But now, I have a newfound respect for it.

    I think this Untitled Series is forcing me to take a different approach to smelling a scent.

    When I'm looking for a scent to buy, I have a goal. I want something that wears marvelously on my skin and serves a purpose for me. I may be looking for a date scent or a work scent. Something that would become part of my wardrobe. How it serves me is very important, much like trying on a pair of pants and looking in the mirror. When smelling a scent, the first thing I judge is: "Does this fit?" Right or wrong, that's what I do.

    But I can't take that approach with the Untitled series. I can't because they're random, other than that they fit the profile of a Chandler Burr favorite. It wouldn't even make sense to try to judge them based on how they fit me. Instead, I take in the scent for what it is. That really helps in terms of discovering the scent as a work of art... but is art the only purpose of a scent?
    Nice thoughts. There is the practical, and then there is the artistic, and hopefully some of both, which is what I look for in native pottery. I want both durability and beauty. Craftsmanship and artisanship. Art and craft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Excellent question and I can't agree more with your argumentation.

    I LOVE functional fragrance, meaning all fragrance that is not exclusively meant to be sold as a perfume. It is also the area of perfumery that interest me the most as it is loads more challenging than fine fragrance. It combines cosmetic chemistry with fragrance chemistry and is imho the area where most innovation is done.
    I believe it was Turin that wrote something about some fabric softener that he would love to have bottled? That's how I feel.

    Thus I think one can see fragrance as functional (in this case including fragrances that are fit to wear to a specific situation) and sometimes as art. The classic example of Secretions Magnifique, totally unwearable but such fun concept and execution!

    Perfume as art must have something else, the 'je ne sais quoi' factor like any other object of art that you can admire in a museum or exposition, but wouldn't use to tile the bathroom It totally fits into Burr's purpose of this series and his role as the curator of the department of olfactory art at MAD.

    Unfortunately it demands a whole other perspective at experiencing perfume, a perspective that is imho difficult to grasp for several reasons: a) it demands a deep knowledge of art history and art aesthetics; b) it demands using a new language that most of us haven't yet mastered; c) it demands the willingness and ability to see it with CB's eyes.

    I think it would be loads easier to just go to an olfactory exposition where CB guides you through every single piece and explains what he sees and means. Atm my main observation is that CB doesn't seem to have the patience to be a good teacher. It's like he expects the participants to speak fluently Japanese by talking to them in Japanese about perfume for just 5 minutes each month. Only the few that actually master the language will be able to follow and appreciate.
    See - it wasn't that hard to stay in the conversation! Great points!

    Honestly, I think Chandler is just modeling what it is like to speak simple Japanese sentences. I think he's demonstrating what grammar looks like, but we aren't talking real rules or anything yet. Let me suggest that WE need to be patient, too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    I had forgotten that Burr was a Japanophile. Japan fascinates me (ergo my familiarity with "The Book of Tea," which I mentioned in discussing S01E03) , and I would say I have a love-hate relationship with the culture. I love that they will escalate anything to an art form and codify it (kubuki, flower arranging, baseball). I hate the discrimination against women and their objectification, prevalent in Japanese culture. Such an odd place, so different from Western culture.
    I agree - very different. It's an interesting culture. Seen from my perspective (Japanese wife), women do have have and exert a fair amount of power which simply doesn't appear in Western ways. That's mostly from the marriage/family/social perspective. I also happen to work IT in a niche business sector which is really in good shape on gender equality, and the surprising thing is that our Japanese counterparts are the same way.

    The objectification - that's interesting. If I could make an analogy, I would say that the sexuality of the manga culture bothers Japanese women as little as the violent gaming culture of American bothers American women. I, personally, find first-person-shooters horrifying, but they seem to bother most American moms about as much as manga bothers my wife.

    But I agree that the Japanese business world has more of a glass ceiling problem than we do.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellsLike View Post
    I approached E04, the same way, as a tea fragrance with some sort of citrus on top, since it resonated with me as similar to other tea fragrances I know, particularly Yang by Jacques Fath.

    The analogy to music makes sense to me, to a degree. We often approach music through instrumentation, genre, style and other descriptive technical and formal elements before, apart from and/or entwined with our aesthetic and emotional responses. And many (all?) forms of music may become MORE aesthetically and emotionally accessible with greater technical and formal understanding.

    Besides, as we well know, "notes" themselves are often more poetry (and/or marketing) than technical description. Tea is my real world reference for E04, but it doesn't literally smell like tea to me, as much as it reminds me of other fragrances that feature a "tea" note, probably none of which contain any actual tea as a raw material. So notes are a kind of impressionistic, associative language for understanding fragrances as much (or more than) a reductive materialistic one.
    Very much agreed!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellsLike View Post
    I made the same guess about yuzu, based on the description, and did a directory search on fragrances with yuzu in the title, but I can't really identify yuzu directly by smell and had no experience with any of the yuzu-named fragrances, so they couldn't serve as reference points.
    I was looking at the base notes to try to distinguish, but that is as far as I got. The base notes seemed to match Yuzu Rouge better than Yuzu Man, but I was stuck there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville Metro Man View Post
    Hi everyone.
    Red The Fradge Report you crack me up, Bravo!

    Now sliding the soapbox over stepping up and speaking in my piercing yet somehow lovable(?) voice:

    I wanted to chime in on the idea that Chandler looks down on us for thinking of notes first. He doesn't think less of us but he does passionately disagree with us, thus the F-bomb.
    I hope you can tell I am somewhere in the middle on this. I very much believe if there is ever going to be an appreciation of Olfactory Art there has to be someone who steps up and applies a framework for the rest of us to build upon. One of the reasons I think what Chandler is doing is so important is that he is one of maybe two or three people who can command the attention of all the relevant stakeholders and get them into the room. From there I think we can take it on our own.
    I believe the catalog he authors for The Art of Scent exhibit is going to be the foundation on which all of us eventually do build a consistent way of conversing about Olfactory Art. I see his identification of Schools of Perfumery as a place for us to have a serious discussion about what belongs in each category as well as which olfactory artists excel at a particular style.
    Irina I don't think you have to have an art history degree to be part of this discussion but as a place to start that is the template Chandler is laying down. From there it will hopefully be a discussion among those of us who believe in the existence of Olfactory Art and we will agree and disagree and eventually evolve the discussion and form a vocabulary. People like you need to be part of this and not check out but instead help shape it. If this is to be truly successful Chandler needs to have voices which are willing to challenge and provoke his notions, this can't be a one-way conversation.

    It is my belief that there is a place for notes in this evolving discussion. You can't talk about Eau Duelle without mentioning vanilla it just doesn't make sense to me. You can't talk about Yuzu Rouge without mentioning the tea and yuzu. Artists have been spoken of by their ingredients before; Picasso's Blue Period or Red Period, Monet's Red Period, the marble used in Michelangelo's sculptures. What I agree with Chandler about is it can't just be about the notes. When it is special, when it is something we would call Olfactory Art it should make us feel something and that is what we need to evolve a vocabulary for.

    Stepping down from the soapbox taking a drink and looking forward to the discussion.
    Great post, from beginning to end!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rogalal View Post
    I have to admit that I was ready to write off this whole thing. But I do think Chandler has a valid point, though I don't feel he made it very well in that video.

    If you're looking at a painting in a museum and you study the brushstrokes and the way the oil paints were mixed and then just stop, thinking you understand and have experienced the painting even though you haven't given any thought to the subject of the painting or the emotion or the symbolism or the history behind it, that really is pretty stupid.

    I've definitely been guilty of this in perfume criticism, mostly when I find a scent technically flawed and then don't bother looking for the art or the intent behind it. On a larger scale, we do tend to spend a lot more time telling each other what a perfume smells like than we do how it makes us feel, but I think, especially in an internet setting where we're talking to people who aren't in the room with us smelling the same thing, that's kind of a requirement.

    That being said, art historians and critics DO look at the materials and techniques used in art. All the time. So I don't believe that eliminating this from the discussion is required in order to reach a higher level of communication - Actually, I'd argue the opposite. Once we had all established that we smelled the tea in EO4, we could talk about it more easily having agreed on a group vocabulary.

    And, as one last personal point, I really don't like when the conversation gets too "elevated." After 4 years of university comparative literature, I know how deep criticism can get up its own ass, to the point where it's nothing more than meaningless buffoonery and vocabulary showboating. While I think there's a place for that in academia, I'd hate to see us all sitting around spouting a bunch of obscure philosophical arguments at each other, all of us trying to sound smarter than the last person by using increasingly obscure reference points while completely ignoring what the perfume we're supposedly talking about actually smells like.
    Your last point has me in total agreement. This is what drove me once and for all to get out of the arts and into science during college. But in defense of the arts and literature, let me add that it took a lifetime of watching science fail brilliantly, as the amoral damsel seeking to be the bitch of every power, to bring me back. I sometimes feel that the only legitimate use of science may actually be perfumery. It doesn't even serve our desire for immortality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    The great thing about these discussions of the Untitled Series scents is that even though we're not in the same room, we are all smelling the same thing. That does allow us to move beyond just describing what we smell and to start talking about the overall effect of the fragrance as a work of art. If we choose to continue to participate.

    I couldn't agree more about (bad) university classes in comparative literature. I will admit here and now that I reject post-modernism in its entirety as the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on/by academia. But I've recovered from the trauma of my university experience and have discovered that independent study can be worthwhile -- even if it sometimes involves philosophical tomes (I always get evangelical about the most recent thought-provoking book I've read, and tend to reference it and quote from it to anyone who will listen. If you've got a minute, let me tell you about "On Being Authentic"...) And I hope we can all be charitable enough to presume that the person spouting obscure arguments is doing it out of a desire to understand or be understood instead of to sound smart.
    I agree. I've been very pleased by how genuine/authentic people have been as they struggle to communicate their subtle, difficult, and (perhaps) obscure thoughts. This is hard stuff to get from one mind to another. We're up against a tough nut with the 8th art.

    Knowing the way things actually work, however, the greatest insights will surely come from off-the-cuff n00b comments.
    * * * *

  56. #116

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    Thank you for the re-cap, Red!

    I won't shy away from discussion about fragrance, the industry, olfactory language etc, no, by all means. And I will be reading and contributing. I am just a bit disappointed atm in CB's untitled series, especially as getting to actually smell the episodes before reveal is so hard for non-US residents.

    But I do love the threads and the input, it's a joy for me to come here daily and read y'all!
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  57. #117

    Default Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E04

    I decided to order a full bottle of Yuzu Rouge through OpenSky, and I was delighted when I got the package - they included 15 ml samples of four other 06130 scents: Cèdre, Lentisque, Feuille de Réglisse, and Lierre Rose. I do like the aesthetic of the line: the two I've tried seem to share the uncluttered feel of Yuzu Rouge, although they're by a different perfumer (Jacques Chabert) and aren't quite as smooth and seamless as it. But it was a nice surprise to get four little sample bottles with my order.

    (Cèdre is also by Raphael Haury, but I haven't tried that yet.)
    Last edited by Perfume_Addict; 19th October 2012 at 12:56 PM.

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