Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1

    Default Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    I'm trying to make a customized fragrance composition for an air-freshener spray. The composition includes a small percent of Suederal LT. The problem is that Suederal LT is solving quite difficulty in ethanol and isopropanol. Aditionally, Suederal LT hasn't any kind of solubility in water. But I cant' use a 100% of ethanol/isopropanol in the finished air-freshener, so the cost for my customer would be too high.

    Then, I've tried to add water. If I add a few drops of water to the finished air-freshener liquid , then Suederal LT goes inmediatly down to the bottle's bottom, forming small bubbles (it looks like drops of oil in a glass of water, but down in the bottom, instead of up on the surface)

    I'd like to know if is there any effective solvent or surfactant for Suederal LT, that let me to add water to the finished air-freshener spray, in order to reduce the air-freshener costs.

    I'm from Spain, please excuse my difficulties for writing in English. Thank you in advance.
    Last edited by vmbg; 20th September 2012 at 05:47 PM. Reason: Adding details

  2. #2

    Default Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    Yup I just wrote a post on this subject. It looks like Suederal is only soluble in alcohol. Did you find a solution to this? I would be interested in hearing about it.

    By the way your Spanish is perfect. It must be all my schooling in Spanish class that let's me read and write in Spanish yet I can easily understand it in my mind . Just kidding you English is great.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    Never use water as a solvent in Perfumery; ever, ever, ever. I'm surprised you are finding it difficult to dissolve Suederal in alcohol; what type of alcohol are you using? It may have too much water in it. You could try using DPG or Carbitol to dilute your fragrance and reduce costs.

  4. #4
    Super Member Serg Ixygon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    371

    Default Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    Suederal is almost a jello. With ethanol it looks like a jello in a water. Ethanol does not dissolve Suederal. In my case addition of Benzyl Benzoate helped.

  5. #5
    Basenotes Junkie NebelGeÓst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    south west
    Posts
    697

    Default Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    I'm glad I'm not the only one. Will try benzyl benzoate, thanks!
    Currently wearing: Pagan by Mayfair

  6. #6

    Default Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    Re-reading this old thread; Suederal like jelly? No it ain't. not in my experience. Try DPG, or Carbitol. If they don't work, try DEP or Benzyl Benzoate, or Triethyl Citrate.

  7. #7
    Basenotes Junkie NebelGeÓst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    south west
    Posts
    697

    Default Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    Not exactly like jelly here, more like an oil on the bottom. Adding more alcohol didn't solve more of this residue, I ended up at 3% and still hat more or less the same amount on the bottom of the bottle. 95% alcohol, a different one than the batch I had problems with to disolve the vanilla absolute (although I am sure nothing was wrong with this bottle of alcohol, as I could make a 25% dilution of my labdanum resinoid easily). I still don't have any DPG here, only PG. Adding PG didn't make any change.
    Benzyl benzoate should be available in a pharmacy and with its mild smell it should not influence the suederal too much.
    How much of the BB should I add? Would be 1 or 2% enough when used as an solubilizer?
    Thanks
    Currently wearing: Pagan by Mayfair

  8. #8

    Default Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    PG should not be used in Perfumery; ever. Think of it as a second cousin to water.

    You ask how much solvent to use. What are you trying to do? Make Suederal more pourable? Make your fragrance containing Suederal dissolve in ethanol? Try a mixture of Benzyl Benzoate and Benzyl Alcohol (50:50), and make a 10.0% solution of Suerderal using that mixture as a solvent. See if that will be easier to dissolve in ethanol.

  9. #9
    Basenotes Junkie NebelGeÓst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    south west
    Posts
    697

    Default Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    Hm, still some aromatics are sold disolved in pg? And it helped me to make a solution of my castoreum absolute.

    Anyway, I just want a 10 or 20% solution of the Suederal in ethanol. Seems like the addition of benzyl benzoate helped in Serg Ixygon's case. But I have no clue how much I should add, but I guess I'll just try and see..
    Currently wearing: Pagan by Mayfair

  10. #10

    Default Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    In my experience PG was never used inPerfumery, only in Flavours. It attracts water, and will cause big problems. As most Flavours are water soluble this is unimportant; for Perfumery it does matter. However, if you have found that PG was useful go ahead.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    I am so confused, I have a KG of this, and it is totally fluid (slightly thick -- but not nearly as thick as anything resinous, such as labdanum 50% DPG) and mine is readily soluble.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    Quote Originally Posted by George Tedder View Post
    I am so confused, I have a KG of this, and it is totally fluid (slightly thick -- but not nearly as thick as anything resinous, such as labdanum 50% DPG) and mine is readily soluble.
    I think the problem lies elsewhere, and not with you. No need to be confused or concerned. Suederal should be as you describe it; a liquid as you describe and fully soluble in DPG and ethanol.

  13. #13
    Basenotes Junkie NebelGeÓst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    south west
    Posts
    697

    Default Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    I've bought mine from PellWall, labeled as the original from IFF, alcohol concentration is 95% (containing 1% panthenol, which should not effect solubility at all). There are several people having this problem.
    My suederal is liquid as well, never said it is not.

    Maybe it's the different denaturants in the ethanol that may have been used? Mine is nearly scentless, it's for the use in cosmetics. Denaturated alcohol often has a strong odor even no 'perfume' is listed, so there must be different chemicals that are used as denaturants, some may act as solubilizer as well? In my case maybe only denatoniumbenzoat has been added, in others there might be as well isopropyl alcohol and methyl ethyl ketone (which both have an odor and are solvents).
    For perfume scentless alcohol is prefered but isn't available everywhere, so there might be an option why in some cases Suederal disolves completely and in others not.
    But I'm not a chemist, so just thinking aloud.
    Currently wearing: Pagan by Mayfair

  14. #14

    Default Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    I doubt if the small amount of denaturants present will cause any solubility problems. I really cannot help. All I know is that in my experience Suederal always was easily soluble inDPG and ethanol. So either your ethanol is no good, or your Suederal is no good. Maybe you should ask Chris about this.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    I doubt if the small amount of denaturants present will cause any solubility problems. I really cannot help. All I know is that in my experience Suederal always was easily soluble inDPG and ethanol. So either your ethanol is no good, or your Suederal is no good. Maybe you should ask Chris about this.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    I think the problem lies elsewhere, and not with you. No need to be confused or concerned. Suederal should be as you describe it; a liquid as you describe and fully soluble in DPG and ethanol.
    I don't have any problems either.. have made a 10% dilution in DPG which I use constantly

  17. #17

    Default Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

    Quote Originally Posted by NebelGeÓst View Post
    I've bought mine from PellWall, labeled as the original from IFF, alcohol concentration is 95% (containing 1% panthenol, which should not effect solubility at all). There are several people having this problem.
    My suederal is liquid as well, never said it is not.

    Maybe it's the different denaturants in the ethanol that may have been used? Mine is nearly scentless, it's for the use in cosmetics. Denaturated alcohol often has a strong odor even no 'perfume' is listed, so there must be different chemicals that are used as denaturants, some may act as solubilizer as well? In my case maybe only denatoniumbenzoat has been added, in others there might be as well isopropyl alcohol and methyl ethyl ketone (which both have an odor and are solvents).
    For perfume scentless alcohol is prefered but isn't available everywhere, so there might be an option why in some cases Suederal disolves completely and in others not.
    But I'm not a chemist, so just thinking aloud.
    Iím really not sure why youíd be having trouble with this: I bought 5Kg of Suederal from the UKís approved IFF distributor and itís from that batch that yours came. As with everything from Pell Wall itís the same stuff I use myself and Iíve had no difficulty dissolving it in ethanol or blending it with other perfumery materials. I do use a small amount of IPM in my usual denatured ethanol, so you could try that to see if it helps.

    It is a pretty thick liquid, but certainly shouldnít be jelly-like: those writing about a jelly-like suederal probably have something else or possibly itís deteriorated due to age (though Iíve found it to be stable over several years in good storage conditions).
    ďBattle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise.
    ― David Bowie
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
    Quality perfume making ingredients
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume
    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog for more info about perfumes and perfumery.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 18
    Last Post: 18th May 2012, 11:42 PM
  2. Cost Effective?
    By bearcat22 in forum Fragrance DIY
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 17th April 2012, 04:18 AM
  3. using the right solvent in the right material
    By oliverandco in forum Fragrance DIY
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 17th June 2011, 02:08 AM
  4. What are the implications of water as a solvent?
    By NillaGoon in forum Just Starting Out
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 28th October 2009, 06:16 AM
  5. Are there Natural Deodorants that are Effective?
    By blah114 in forum Men's Grooming
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 6th February 2008, 06:50 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000