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  1. #1
    Dependent Birdboy48's Avatar
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    Default Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    It seems that new and apparently well-funded fragrance lines are coming into the market almost every month. Not simply new designer lines, or spin offs from established houses, but lines apparently cut from whole cloth that represent themselves as totally new stand-alone houses.

    How exactly the market can hold up under all this is a mystery to me, unless the folks putting these lines together know something I don't know.

    Has there been some kind of sign or study showing that the public has a new and growing interest in fragrance ?

    If not, from a practical standpoint, I do wonder how all these new lines hope to make a go of it.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    There'll always be someone out there buying them
    More to sniff, no complaints here, I ignore what looks bad.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    Yes, the new market reports have arrived Several of them have presented numbers that in this time of crisis people tend to spend their money on luxury items, especially if it presented luxurious (packaging and marketing!). Fragrance is considered a luxury item.

    Here is a nice report from the 2012 World Perfumery Congress:
    http://content.yudu.com/A1xrza/2012W...rces/index.htm

    And a general article:
    http://www.cosmeticsdesign-europe.co...market-growth/
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    unless the folks putting these lines together know something I don't know.

    $$$$$, highly profitable.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    I've often wondered the same thing - meanwhile, I'm on a quest to purge my collection by 80% (might have just hit the nail on the head, there), which is a clear indication of who is purchasing all these new perfumes. There are myriad places to buy decants and join in splits so I think access to perfumes in smaller quantities might actually be boosting sales in general. I mean, if 5 people buy a couple bottles and split it up for sale, that's 10 bottles sold; whereas there might not be any sold otherwise. That's a small number by example but gets the point across. And I can't speak for everyone but when I first got into fragrances a few years ago it was like entering a whole new world where I had to not only learn about current fragrances but also the history, including experiencing fragrances of the past. One has to keep up or get left behind. It's beyond an addiction - as I start to diverge from the thread topic - but there's a desire among many of us, mainly due to access, to simply try something old, something new, etc. I've certainly toned down my acquisitions but can honestly say I love trying new perfumes even when they smell like nothing new when I apply them.

    I'm having a similar experience with music, where a lot of new music is getting heavy rotation for a few weeks and then drops off as it's replaced by even newer music. It's disheartening in a way because a lot of that music is simply classic. I can put perfumes in a similar context - "out" with the old, in with the new. I know it's only rock-n-roll, but I like it. Same with perfumes.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    Thanks for the brochure insights. How on earth does anyone in those huge conferences manage to smell anything at all when absolutely all of them are waving multiple scent strips all at once and all day? The whole hall must smell of millefleurs...

    It must be a bit disheartening to the really artistic sorts when Mr new-money can just walk in and throw a wad for a huge and slick range all at once. Where is the artistic idea that each perfume gets developed? It just looks like a throw enough at the wall and maybe one might stick system. Quantity over quality...

    Hopefully discerning noses can tell. The catch is you have to buy it first.....

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    I've been jobhunting lately and saw a listing for the San Francisco Neiman Marcus, where some line called Thirdman is buying a counter and hiring their own full-times sales rep. All I could think was "who the hell are these people??" It's an unknown line and they're spending all this money (and not just for the SF store, I'm sure). Where do these companies come from? It's not like Neimans is easy to get into, no matter how much money you throw around. They must be extremely well connected or secretly distributed by LVMH or something
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    Theres a lot of money in luxury items.

    Its the only genre where you can charge exorbitant amounts of money and have the customer him/herself justify the cost.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Theres a lot of money in luxury items.

    Its the only genre where you can charge exorbitant amounts of money and have the customer him/herself justify the cost.

    for swap/sale:





  9. #9

    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/05/...ost-breakdown/

    Profits like these, ...a scent like Terre De Hermes, Acqua De Gio, or Green Irish Tweed is a virtual License to print money!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    Thanks for the brochure insights. How on earth does anyone in those huge conferences manage to smell anything at all when absolutely all of them are waving multiple scent strips all at once and all day? The whole hall must smell of millefleurs...

    It must be a bit disheartening to the really artistic sorts when Mr new-money can just walk in and throw a wad for a huge and slick range all at once. Where is the artistic idea that each perfume gets developed? It just looks like a throw enough at the wall and maybe one might stick system. Quantity over quality...

    Hopefully discerning noses can tell. The catch is you have to buy it first.....
    The halls are huge and well ventilated. Of course the nose is tired but it's nice to experience new stuff and talk with colleague from all over the world. It's a socializing event above all.

    As for quantity over quality, one sees that in all market segments, from the 1$ stores to etsy.com. On etsy.com every day a natural perfumer seems to be born, but also every day more cheap diluted fragrance oils with a clever name are being sold as 'perfume'.
    If there is a market, there will be someone who sees a business opportunity. It's just how capitalism works.
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    The facts on IFRA restrictions & EU regulations

  11. #11

    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    I doubt much of that is pure profit for anyone although I'm not saying there isn't any money in it. The more pricy a perfume, the more the associated costs I'll wager. It costs a mega fortune to stage any productions associated with conferences and presentations of any sort.

    I used to be in charge of advertising budgets many moons ago, and I can tell you that if anything, there is usually a scrabble at the end and a bit of downsizing from the original ideas to cram it within the budgets. It never seemed to matter how huge the original budget was... the project just grew to fit it. It might explain why there is a surge of niche perfumers. They are more in control of their own expenses and quality control.

    A stand must be extortionate at those sort of events. You'd have to be fairly confident in your product and sales abilities. I would love to go to one and smell for myself.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    I doubt much of that is pure profit for anyone although I'm not saying there isn't any money in it. The more pricy a perfume, the more the associated costs I'll wager. It costs a mega fortune to stage any productions associated with conferences and presentations of any sort.

    I used to be in charge of advertising budgets many moons ago, and I can tell you that if anything, there is usually a scrabble at the end and a bit of downsizing from the original ideas to cram it within the budgets. It never seemed to matter how huge the original budget was... the project just grew to fit it. It might explain why there is a surge of niche perfumers. They are more in control of their own expenses and quality control.

    A stand must be extortionate at those sort of events. You'd have to be fairly confident in your product and sales abilities. I would love to go to one and smell for myself.
    Actually the WPC is more of an industry event, meaning that mostly not the perfume companies have a display but mostly suppliers of ingredients and/or packaging manufacturers or other technology industry partners attend and present.

    The perfume houses events like the latest one in Florence (Fragranze) are different and the stands are very expensive indeed (no idea how much as sales & marketing aren't my strong suit, but I believe somewhere in the five zeros amount). Those overwhelm me loads more, specially with my allergies.
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    The facts on IFRA restrictions & EU regulations

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    Quote Originally Posted by forfreddie View Post
    There'll always be someone out there buying them.
    True

  14. #14
    Dependent Birdboy48's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    If there is a market, there will be someone who sees a business opportunity.
    I guess I simply was not aware that interest and the market for perfumes was expanding so rapidly.

    Granted we hear about the seemingly logarithmic increase in the number of new perfumes released each year, but are the number of actual perfume consumers increasing at an equal rate ? Perhaps I'm out of touch, but I live in a pretty trendy town, and I've not noticed perfume-wearing making an appearance as the latest new trend. Not among us nice white semi-upper class Americans at least.

    As I understand, there is quite a growth market for luxury goods in developing countries, and perhaps that's where these new lines hope to make their sales. But many of them seem to be trying to stake their claim in upscale markets which are already well-established.

    From here, it seems like a case of the market pie getting sliced thinner and thinner, as these new lines attempt to get a sliver for themselves. How they hope to do this with little but fancy bottles and expensive price tags to assert their credibility is puzzling to me. Particularly when their products often seem to play on many of the same themes ( a nice citrusy scent for every-day wear ) as established perfumes.

    Not that I wish these outfits ill, or am implying that their products are nessesarily bad, but as Mumsy mentioned above, the nature of some of these lines can seem a little formulaic. Someone comes up with a big wad of cash, throws it at the idea, and bingo, a new and extensive line is born.

    Which, at least on it's surface, doesn't seem to have much to do with creativity to me.

    If there is creativity, it seems to circle around a marketing strategy of keeping all the details surrounding the introductions mysterious and opaque...a tiresome trend I'm hoping we'll see the end of soon.

    Hopefully the authentically creative lines will become apparent with time and flourish, but with some of them all that seems initially apparent is the money and the scope of their ambitions.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    I agree @Birdboy48.
    However what I also see is that the growing unemployment rates also struck the FF industry. Especially junior perfumers, people just starting out, people on the technical, manufacturing, selling & marketing part of fragrance. So I can imagine that some of them may get together and put together something.

    Plus don't underestimate the power of internet. Because of the internet many more brands can present themselves online and work at gathering fans.
    Making it harder and harder to get noticed, unless you have/get the cash to spend on building a brand.

    Some of the new lines I've seen are mostly an example of creative marketing rather than creative perfumery. Which makes sense cos marketing patrons do indeed work with bigger budgets.
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  16. #16
    Dependent Birdboy48's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Plus don't underestimate the power of internet.
    It was interesting to note the presentation by Jennifer Abril of IFRA, at the World Perfumery Conference, in which she noted that 90% of fragrance issue discussions take place on blogs, and only 1% in the mainstream media. And that among the discussions that take place on the web, 60% take place on [ahem...] "product review sites".

    Her presentation was apparently an extension of another presentation by Sean Traynor of Trasago, in which he outlined the pressures on the industry relating to transparency and ingredient communication.

    Given Abril's figures, it's not too difficult to figure out the sorts of specific locations they see these pressures as emanating from.

    It would have been interesting to hear exactly how Traynor and others in the industry hope to address these now-acknowledged transparency concerns, given that previous strategies seem to have involved simply denying that ingredients have been changed or fragrances reformulated.

    .

  17. #17
    Super Member chopwet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    Reading this reveals a lot that is very interesting. Basically the big-money men have taken over the luxury sector and their main aim is big profits which is a shift from the traditional aims of providing the best that money can buy. If you haven't already, it's a worthwhile read:



    http://www.amazon.com/Deluxe-How-Lux.../dp/1594201293

  18. #18

    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdboy48 View Post
    It was interesting to note the presentation by Jennifer Abril of IFRA, at the World Perfumery Conference, in which she noted that 90% of fragrance issue discussions take place on blogs, and only 1% in the mainstream media. And that among the discussions that take place on the web, 60% take place on [ahem...] "product review sites".

    Her presentation was apparently an extension of another presentation by Sean Traynor of Trasago, in which he outlined the pressures on the industry relating to transparency and ingredient communication.

    Given Abril's figures, it's not too difficult to figure out the sorts of specific locations they see these pressures as emanating from.

    It would have been interesting to hear exactly how Traynor and others in the industry hope to address these now-acknowledged transparency concerns, given that previous strategies seem to have involved simply denying that ingredients have been changed or fragrances reformulated.

    .
    Well it has to do with the new legislation that will be going into affect 2013:
    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...09R1223:EN:NOT

    We were just discussing this in the DIY subforum:
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/311...ns-as-per-2013

    All the big guys support this, especially as most have their hq in Europe. The list of 'must be labeled allergens' will most likely get longer and longer, especially after the latest report:
    http://ec.europa.eu/health/scientifi...sccs_o_102.pdf
    The truth-in-labeling laws will make it easier for the discerning customer to see differences between different batches.

    I have a theory that the changing regulations and the need of transparency is one of the main factors that will lead to new brands, under the umbrella of the big money giants. It's easier (from a marketing point of view) to start a new brand with more sustainable and transparent goals that fit the current customer than to re-brand a turn-of-the-century established brand.
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    The facts on IFRA restrictions & EU regulations

  19. #19

    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    The luxury market is highly attractive to the corporate guys because its nearly the only market segment in any industry where the more you charge, the more people want it.

    When the economy collapsed, I had an acquaintance in the home furnishings industry make an interesting move: he added a zero to all of his prices. I thought it was suicide, but he has just opened his 4th store while his previous competitors have all gone under. It seems that at the very top, they are riding high above the storm and have money to burn. They don't care much if the sofa is $5,000 or $50,000. They just want what they want.

    But then, as they say in LA, you aren't rich if you can't fly private.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Another new Fragance Line launched...then another...and another...

    People have always been angry for new releases. Books, Cd's, Clothes, Cars, Sunglasses, Watches, Movies....Fragrances. There will always be someone interested in something new.


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