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  1. #1

    Default Synth fixatives for naturals

    Hi perfumers! Do you use synthetic fixatives for your natural fragrances? What is the best? Is there odorless fixatives?

    My natural oil-based (FCO) fragrances last for 2 days on clothes or paper, but on different types of skin 1-3 hours. So the tenacity problem is in skin absorption. What kind of fixative should i use for not break a scent but add longevity to it?

    Thank you!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    There is an extensive discussion about the use of fixatives in this earlier thread that you might want to look at.

    The short answer to your direct question is that, yes I normally use synthetic fixatives to help extend the tenacity of natural fragrance ingredients. The main ones I use are musks, but also things like vertofix, cedramber, ambroxan, evernyl and many others. All these things will alter the scent however - they are part of the perfume.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    But then it is no longer an all natural fragrance; which makes it an even bigger nonsense.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    Thanks Chris!
    So I understand that's the base what should be longstaying. And some base components affect some others (not all and in different manner). For example oakmoss affect bergamot tenacity. Am'I right?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    Yes, and as Jellinek once wrote: even bergamot oil may act as a fixative for lemon oil (in a very, very simple eau de Cologne type fragrance).

    There are a lot of natural materials that can act like a fixative (or better: are suitable to make a better perfume), like vetiver oil, patchouli oil, many resinoids and absolutes, so you don't NEED synthetics here, in general.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    But then it is no longer an all natural fragrance; which makes it an even bigger nonsense.
    Sorry, I just realised I missed that nuance in the original question - of course if it is an all-natural fragrance (I only have one of those in my range currently) then you have to use natural fixatives or it won't be natural any more. I use things like resins and balsams to achieve that mainly, though as Jan says almost anything can work to a degree.

    My Relaxed repose fragrance relies on cedarwood, opopanax and olibanum as the main fixatives and does not contain any synthetics at all - that's the whole point of a fully natural fragrance after all - for the rest of my range I'm using a mixture, with most of the fixative effect coming from synthetics such as those I mentioned earlier.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Hotos View Post
    Hi perfumers! Do you use synthetic fixatives for your natural fragrances?
    I'm not sure you meant that as it came over. The answer for a any natural fragrance just has to be no. Also that would have to include the denatured type of perfumers alcohol too. The denaturants are not natural either.

    Just the normal resins, woods and plant based musks will fix and they don't have to be in huge enough concentrations to alter the smell. There are many threads on this forum. Here is the identical question to yours.

    Essentially me had a Botanical Musk Fixative but it needed a list of what was in it in what proportions to be of any use in a formula.

    Are you trying to make a totally natural fragrance or just asking?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    But then it is no longer an all natural fragrance; which makes it an even bigger nonsense.
    According to whom? This whole obsession with "all natural fragrance" is an exercise in self deception. Perfumers who use synthetics are criticized by "natural perfumers", yet they themselves excuse the use of the exact same chemicals because they were isolated from natural sources as opposed to petro-chemicals. The reality is that "natural isolates" are synthetics too, by definition. That "isolation" of the molecule from the natural source...yeah, that process is called SYNTHESIS. Those molecules don't exist in pure form anywhere in nature, and a great deal of chemical modification is required to extract them from ANY source. I might add that petro-chemicals are what's left of the decomposed fossils of very NATURAL dinosaurs, which means they too come from a natural source. The whole movement is built on the notion that "natural sources" are healthier. Every essential oil contains between 5 and 50 individual components (chemicals) only a few of which are responsible for the scent. The fact that little or no research has ever been done to establish what effect all the other components might have on the human body makes the MUCH less safe than the single, well tested, and regulated molecules of synthetics. Stop participating in the new age fantasy, because its scientifically laughable, and grossly misinformed. Not to mention, natural ingredients are finite, and as has been shown with Sandalwood, when an industry creates demand for these products, they can and do become in danger of extinction. You can talk about sustainable growing techniques all you want, but if people keep jumping on the "natural perfume" bandwagon, demand will crush any attempts at sustainability, and we may lose a unique scent forever. This makes the insistence of the natural perfume movement on using exclusively natural sources dangerous and reprehensible in its utter ignorance. Learn about organic chemistry and you will understand just how pointless the argument is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    [QUOTE=mumsy;2723541]I'm not sure you meant that as it came over. The answer for a any natural fragrance just has to be no. Also that would have to include the denatured type of perfumers alcohol too. The denaturants are not natural identical question to yours.


    Denaturants are unnatural? That's a gross generalization. SDA40b does have some synthetic denaturants, put there to discourage anyone from drinking it. No industry wants denaturation, but these specialty alcohols are produced for public safety reasons. If pure ethanol were cheaply available, people very definitely would drink it, and while our bodies can tolerate ethanol, in its pure for our livers would quickly fail in their attempts to convert it to something that isn't toxic. Denaturation makes sure that nobody does this, and makes it possible for us to obtain "equivalent ethanol" without the severe taxes placed upon it. MOST denatured alcohols are denatured with methanol, which is quite natural, just toxic to humans. So to say all SDA's are unnatural is incorrect. Obviously perfumers alcohol could not be used with a toxic denaturant, and the one tiny synthetic used in it (less than .01%) is Bitrex, which makes the ethanol bitter to someone trying to ingest it. There are other SDAs that are made with non-synthetic and non-toxic denaturants. Sadly, they are rarely sold directly to consumers, as they are considered dangerous due to their extreme flammability, and their purity, which, because alcohol is a broadly useable solvent, require great care in what you decide to mix with it. I believe most companies feel (perhaps correctly) that the average citizen lacks the laboratory experience to properly handle and dispose of pure a alcohols.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by janmeut View Post
    Yes, and as Jellinek once wrote: even bergamot oil may act as a fixative for lemon oil (in a very, very simple eau de Cologne type fragrance).

    There are a lot of natural materials that can act like a fixative (or better: are suitable to make a better perfume), like vetiver oil, patchouli oil, many resinoids and absolutes, so you don't NEED synthetics here, in general.
    Everything I read from the natural perfumery movement advocates that using "all natural sources" are healthier somehow. And yet the use of real citrus oils, all of which cause photo sensitization, which could act as a catalyst for skin cancer, is so clearly not healthy. Help me understand this blatant inconsistency in the philosophy. Natural doesn't mean what most people think it does. There's a big movement towards eating only "organic" foods, but every last perfume synthetic is an organic molecule. Organic does not mean pesticide free, or any of the other things people seem to believe. Organic means that the molecule contains carbon...period. There are many naturally occurring substances that are quite deadly to people, in the short or long term. Citrus oils fall into this category. To use "naturally occurring" as the determination for what you create perfume with is very broad, and seems to be more than a little bit misleading to the perfume buying public. Wintergreen, wormwood, oak moss, and many other traditional "all natural" ingredients are at best dangerous, and in some cases; simply poison. Maybe people feel better about their tumors if they came from a natural source?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    I agree with the spirit of what you said, but there are a few corrections worth making without getting too nitpicky.
    Quote Originally Posted by mandaryn View Post
    The reality is that "natural isolates" are synthetics too, by definition. That "isolation" of the molecule from the natural source...yeah, that process is called SYNTHESIS.
    Haha, no. No, it's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by mandaryn View Post
    Organic does not mean pesticide free, or any of the other things people seem to believe. Organic means that the molecule contains carbon...period.
    Only as far as chemistry goes. There's a regulatory definition which has nothing to do with carbon.

    EDIT: I can't let this go. The chemistry definition is a lot more complex than "contains carbon," though that's a decent simplistic one.

    Quote Originally Posted by mandaryn View Post
    There are other SDAs that are made with non-synthetic and non-toxic denaturants. Sadly, they are rarely sold directly to consumers, as they are considered dangerous due to their extreme flammability, and their purity, which, because alcohol is a broadly useable solvent, require great care in what you decide to mix with it.
    I'm curious to know what non-synthetic, non-toxic denaturants you're talking about here, and why you think the end product would be significantly more flammable than non-denatured alcohol or more readily available denatured alcohol.

    Quote Originally Posted by mandaryn View Post
    I believe most companies feel (perhaps correctly) that the average citizen lacks the laboratory experience to properly handle and dispose of pure a alcohols.
    Alcohol's denatured to be exempt from liquor taxes, not for flammability or other handling purposes.
    Last edited by JayH; 10th November 2013 at 06:56 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    I didn't say anything about them being more or less flammable, and if you take the time to search for a list of available SDAs you'll note that many are denatured with other alcohols that BY THEMSELVES are not toxic, or synthetic. As for my simplified definition of organic? It is not incorrect, and my point in mentioning it is that people frequently allow words like "natural" and "organic" to lul them into the belief that the products they are applied to are safe. While the FDA has further confused the issue by creating the "certified organic" qualification, when unfortunately THE WORD organic has nothing to do with how something is grown, or the presence or absence of pesticides, because chemists everywhere, for centuries, have used that word to refer to a broad group of molecules whose one primary similarity is the presence of the carbon. There is NO complete and all encompassing definition of organic compounds, and if you really are chemistry-man, as your sarcasm indicates, you know this. For the sake of avoiding any further clarification on the carbon issue I will point out that, yes, there are carbon containing molecules that are not organic, but nobody really wanted to read that here did they. Trying to school people, who's posts were only written to point out dangerous and frustrating inconsistencies in a philosophy that, now, every perfumer is forced to confront in their search for knowledge, is really just a snotty, sarcastic way of flaming somebody over statements that are, well...CORRECT, and a waste of everybody else's time. If you're going to say that something is oversimplified, or wrong, but never deliver on any "correct" answers, then why post? Lots of time on your hands? Read the whole Wikipedia article before you try to act like an expert on something. M'k?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    Quote Originally Posted by mandaryn View Post
    I didn't say anything about them being more or less flammable
    Really? What does this mean, then?
    Quote Originally Posted by mandaryn View Post
    There are other SDAs that are made with non-synthetic and non-toxic denaturants. Sadly, they are rarely sold directly to consumers, as they are considered dangerous due to their extreme flammability
    Regular SDAs are sold directly to consumers. If these "other SDAs" aren't sold to consumers due to "extreme flammability," either you're saying they're more flammable, or for some reason you think other SDAs aren't sold to consumers.

    Quote Originally Posted by mandaryn View Post
    and if you take the time to search for a list of available SDAs you'll note that many are denatured with other alcohols that BY THEMSELVES are not toxic, or synthetic.
    I'm not going to search for them. I know enough of the common ones and have no interest in setting the rest to heart. I asked specifically which ones you were talking about, since you were making the assertions and I have little interest in discussing "some blend of unnamed chemicals including ethanol," especially in the context of determining how safe it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by mandaryn View Post
    As for my simplified definition of organic? It is not incorrect
    Many would say it is. It's overly simplistic from a chemistry standpoint, and fails on a lot of compounds. More on this later.

    Quote Originally Posted by mandaryn View Post
    and my point in mentioning it is that people frequently allow words like "natural" and "organic" to lul them into the belief that the products they are applied to are safe.
    Yes, they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by mandaryn View Post
    While the FDA has further confused the issue by creating the "certified organic" qualification, when unfortunately THE WORD organic has nothing to do with how something is grown, or the presence or absence of pesticides
    Let's see, then. Merriam-Webster, 3a(2): of, relating to, yielding, or involving the use of food produced with the use of feed or fertilizer of plant or animal origin without employment of chemically formulated fertilizers, growth stimulants, antibiotics, or pesticides

    That definition comes up even before the chemistry one.

    If you'd care to look, here are the USDA regulations as well. I'm sure the term's legal meaning varies between countries.

    Like it or not, you're trying to use the chemistry definition of "organic" where it doesn't apply. Words often have more than one definition. Farmers and supplement companies aren't wrong for using the one that applies to their market, quite the opposite, rather. For shame.

    Quote Originally Posted by mandaryn View Post
    because chemists everywhere, for centuries, have used that word to refer to a broad group of molecules whose one primary similarity is the presence of the carbon. There is NO complete and all encompassing definition of organic compounds, and if you really are chemistry-man, as your sarcasm indicates, you know this.
    I really am chemistry-man. None of my replies were sarcastic.

    Quote Originally Posted by mandaryn View Post
    For the sake of avoiding any further clarification on the carbon issue I will point out that, yes, there are carbon containing molecules that are not organic, but nobody really wanted to read that here did they.
    They'd have done better getting a definition that wasn't compressed and oversimplified to uphold a point. The definition of "organic" is not a simple thing and should absolutely not be portrayed as such just to say the regulatory bodies have somehow got their own definition wrong.

    I'm not sure whether I should even go through with this seeing as you just admitted your definition was wrong, but I'll do so anyway. As you pointed out, there are carbon-containing compounds which aren't classified as organic. Some definitions of organic require a C-C bond, but that leaves out the simplest derivatives like methane, which ought to be organic and most would classify as such. Because of this, most definitions of organic tend to require a C-H bond. This appears in most compounds that are generally considered to be organic, however, it still leaves out several compounds, notably urea, and still requires exceptions for such.

    Now, why do we keep running into all these exceptions? Calcium carbonate isn't organic, urea is, carbon dioxide isn't...what gives? The thing is, a long, long while back, organic simply meant a compound produced by living organisms. That was the original chemistry definition, and you'll note it's a lot closer to the regulatory definition than the current chemistry definition. It was thought that these life-created compounds could only be created through life, and not in a test tube. Synthesis of urea disproved this, and launched what we know as organic chemistry today, along with a lot of fun new synthetic organic compounds which don't occur naturally, and this long-lived debate over the definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by mandaryn View Post
    Trying to school people, who's posts were only written to point out dangerous and frustrating inconsistencies in a philosophy that, now, every perfumer is forced to confront in their search for knowledge, is really just a snotty, sarcastic way of flaming somebody over statements that are, well...CORRECT, and a waste of everybody else's time.
    Your statements were not all (perhaps even mostly) correct, but hey, thanks for insisting they were even after correcting them (that was sarcasm). I was being gentle, not trying to school you. If I had been, my response would have been quite a bit longer than it was.

    My response to the idea that extraction=synthesis could perhaps have been a bit nicer.

    Quote Originally Posted by mandaryn View Post
    If you're going to say that something is oversimplified, or wrong, but never deliver on any "correct" answers, then why post?
    Are you asking me to go back and pick through every mistake in your earlier post including reasons people shouldn't take them seriously? I was really trying to avoid undermining the basic message "a molecule will have the same effects whether it's synthesized or 'naturally' produced," which is in fact true.

    Quote Originally Posted by mandaryn View Post
    Read the whole Wikipedia article before you try to act like an expert on something. M'k?
    My problem here seems to be that unlike you I've read a good deal more than "the whole Wikipedia article." M'k.

    I'm still waiting for you to explain why extraction is synthesis (it's not), and why you think denaturing of alcohol has something to do with flammability or making it easier for the consumer to handle.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    As a matter of interest, here is the SOED definition of ‘Organic’:

    organic /0ɔ:ˈganɪk/ adjective & noun. LME.
    [ORIGIN French organique from Latin organicus from Greek organikos pertaining to an organ, instrumental, from organon organ noun¹: see -ic.]

    ► A adjective.
    1 Biology & Medicine. Of, pertaining to, or of the nature of a bodily organ or organs; (of a disease) resulting from physical or metabolic disorder, accompanied by actual physical change in body tissue. LME.

    T. Hardy This fear…rather than any organic disease…was eating away the health of John South.


    2 Serving as an instrument or means; instrumental. rare. E16.

    3 ▸ a Music. Resembling an organ or the musical tones of an organ. E17. ▸ †b Medieval Music. Of or pertaining to (the) organum. Only in L18.

    4 ▸ a Of, pertaining to, or derived from a living organism; having the characteristics of a living organism. L17. ▸ b Chemistry. Of, pertaining to, or designating carbon compounds, (orig. those naturally existing as the constituents of living organisms or derived from such compounds); containing carbon in combination. Also, (of an element) contained in an organic compound. Cf. inorganic adjective 1b. E19. ▸ c (Of a fertilizer) produced from (only) natural substances; (of farming, gardening, etc.) involving the growing of plants without the use of artificial fertilizers, pesticides, etc.; (of food) produced without the use of such chemicals. M19.

    (a) G. Lord The soil was…easily worked with a reasonable amount of organic stuff in it. (b) N. G. Clark Cellulose and starch, are probably the most abundant organic substances known. (c) Here's Health Chemical-free food is now becoming…appreciated and organic fruit and vegetables easier to buy. Environment Now If an organic farmer needs to apply more phosphate…he uses rock minerals.


    5 ▸ a Inherent in the organization or constitution of a living being; constitutional; fundamental. L18. ▸ b Belonging to the constitution of an organized whole; structural. L19.

    (a) F. Fergusson Euripedes' choruses are…incidental music rather than organic parts of the action. A. Brookner Her inability to speak was not organic but deliberate.


    †6 ▸ a Music. Of or pertaining to musical instruments; instrumental. Only in E19. ▸ b Done by means of technical instruments; mechanical. Only in L19.

    7 ▸ a Of, pertaining to, or characterized by connection or coordination of parts in one whole; organized; systematic. E19. ▸ b Organizing, constitutive. Chiefly in organic law. rare. M19. ▸ c Characterized by continuous or natural development suggestive of the growth of a living being. L19. ▸ d Architecture. Of a building, architectural style, etc.: reminiscent of or resembling a natural organism; spec. designating architecture that attempts to unify a building with its surroundings. E20.

    (a) A. Bevan Their teaching had an organic relationship with…political and social realities. F. L. Wright The work shall grow more truly simple…more fluent…more organic. (c) J. Uglow Change…must be gradual, organic, natural. Times Organic growth accounted for sales 8 per cent higher. (d) N. Gordimer After heavy rains the concrete buildings have a…bloom…that makes them look organic.



    Special collocations: organic chemistry the branch of chemistry that deals with the properties and reactions of organic compounds, i.e. those containing carbon (see note s.v. inorganic). organic composition (of capital) Economics in Marxist use, the ratio of constant capital or means of production to variable capital or labour power. organic soil: composed mainly of organic material.


    ► B noun. Usu. in pl.
    1 An organic compound. M19.

    2 A food produced by organic farming. L20.


    organicity /-ˈnɪsɪti/ noun the quality or state of being organic L19.

    More meanings that you can shake a stick at and probably more than most of us suspected. Complicated things words: it’s what makes them so fascinating!
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    Just to round things out as I realize I never posted anything to back up my preferred definition.

    "If the difference between organic and inorganic compounds isn't the presence of some mysterious vital force required for their synthesis, what is the basis for distinguishing between these classes of compounds? Most compounds extracted from living organisms contain carbon. It is therefore tempting to identify organic chemistry as the chemistry of carbon. But this definition would include compounds such as calcium carbonate (CaCO3), as well as the elemental forms of carbon diamond and graphite that are clearly inorganic. We will therefore define organic chemistry as the chemistry of compounds that contain both carbon and hydrogen." (emphasis theirs)

    This has been overwhelmingly the definition I've come across in the field of chemistry,* though generally with some disclaimers for things like urea or fully halogenated carbon compounds. Say CH4 is organic, and CH3Cl is organic, and CH2CL2 is organic, and CHCl3 is organic, then when you run into CCl4 that tends to be naturally classified as organic too, because it largely is about the carbon backbone even if not entirely. It's kind of a messy, arbitrary subject all around as far as terminology goes.

    7a and b I don't think I've ever run across before. You learn something new every day.

    Mandaryn, I was too hasty and too snide labeling your definition of organic as an oversimplification just because you'd failed to mention that there could be exceptions. I will grant you there is no "official" chemistry definition of organic, and therefore you can argue "any compound containing carbon" works just as well. No big deal. But if there's no official definition you can't go saying the regulatory bodies are using the wrong one, now.

    *General introductions to chemistry aside. You have to at least hit the point of classifying and naming organic compounds.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    "Chemistry of compounds that contain both carbon and hydrogen"; I would disagree with that; Sodium Bicarbonate (Na H CO3) isn't an organic chemical, but it does contain both Carbon and Hydrogen. I would define Organic Chemistry as the chemistry of Carbon containing molecules that have little or no ionic properties, but are mainly covalent. As has been stated the term was originally used for the study of this molecules that had been derived from or extracted from living things. Indeed it was once thought that a true organic chemical could not be made from non-organic materials. This, of course, has been disproved, as has the whole idea of "Vitalism", and the "Vital Spark".

  15. #15

    Default Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    Hence the "though generally with some disclaimers for..." bit. There are always compounds that don't fit right in one definition or another.

    I very nearly proposed non-ionic carbon compounds myself, but then you still get stuck with carbon monoxide and pure carbon (to name two) which are generally considered inorganic.

    -headscratch-

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    The term "Organic" as used in chemistry has nothing to do with what is meant by "Organic" with regards to food. Literal minded science types tend to be extremely anal retentive about terminology and with justification, the field of science requires it. My wife used to work in the organic herb and supplement industry and went to school to become a Naturopathic doctor, she is now a licensed Pharmacist (doctorate). I've learned a lot with regards to the whole "organic" conundrum and get to see many sides of the story that most people don't have the luxury of seeing due to my wife's history, my own experience and self education. We try to remain as objective, unbiased and empirical as we can with regards to these sorts of things. My wife has a Gluten allergy and I have dairy, nitrite and egg white allergies - according to blood antibody testing - asthma and occupational chemical sensitivities so we eat a lot of "organic" and unconventional food stuffs. Unfortunately the term "organic" as used in the food industry has become a mutable definition over the years. It originally DID mean no chemical/synthesized or petroleum derived pesticides or fertilizers are to be used and certainly no GMO seed. This meant that only biologically derived manure, urea and plant compost could be used as fertilizer. In fact, it used to be the case that in order for a farm to be labeled "organic" they HAD to be so many miles away from a highly trafficked road and so far away from other non "organic" farms. As with everything in life lobby money from corporate interest has changed the regulatory landscape and reformed the term into a meaningless label. There are currently a few organic labels and they have different meanings. USDA organic labeled foods by law have to contain 70% certified "organic" content but the other 30% can be regular old pesticide and chemical fertilizer laden, GMO, etc unless otherwise labeled. There are other watchdog groups and organic certifications that can be used to designate organic status based on certification that are more stringent (like Oregon Tilth) but even their standards have gone out the window according to people I've talked with from the industry. Part of the problem is with GMO's and the fact that pollen from GMO plants can not be contained. This means that pollen from GMO crops is carried by the wind and pollinates non-gmo and "organic" crops. This is one aspect of GMO's that has all of the tree hugging foodies in an uproar and it's the same reason why entire countries are burning their gmo crops and banning them altogether. There aren't enough evidence based efficacy studies (by third party groups with no monetary interest) with regards to gmo's and long term human consumption. In fact there are animal studies coming in from other countries (outside the US) that indicate gmo's are just plain bad - cancerous, sterility, etc. Anyway, didn't mean to go off on a gmo rant but in some ways it is intricately tied in with the "organic" label as it pertains to foods.
    Last edited by JEBeasley; 14th November 2013 at 06:22 PM. Reason: Clarification

  17. #17

    Default Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Hotos View Post
    Hi perfumers! Do you use synthetic fixatives for your natural fragrances? What is the best? Is there odorless fixatives?

    My natural oil-based (FCO) fragrances last for 2 days on clothes or paper, but on different types of skin 1-3 hours. So the tenacity problem is in skin absorption. What kind of fixative should i use for not break a scent but add longevity to it?

    Thank you!
    This doesn't answer your question but might address the problem.

    As you know there are any number fo dilutants but one thing to try if you're concerned about skin absorption is denatured palm oil.

    The worst natural is jojoba for that. Also I think mineral oil is worth looking at, if you consider that natural, as I think that remains on the skin better than some things. I just try mixing the scent in each thing. Sometimes something that is not a perfect solvent for all your ingredients might nonetheless smell great with a particular dilutant. At least that is my experience.

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