Sorry to hear that. I've been burned on eBay before when I purchased One Million. Some people just have no shame.
Thread: -Sigh- eBay fake...
1. Dior Homme Original
2. Musc Ravaguer
3. Portrait of a Lady
4. Noir de Noir
5. L Instant Guerlain pour Homme Extreme
6. New Haarlem
7. Pure Coffee
8. Blu Mediterraneo Sicilian Almond
9. Rose 31
10. Spiritueuse Double Vanille
Sorry to hear that. I've been burned on eBay before when I purchased One Million. Some people just have no shame.
Current top 10 (No order):
1. Pure Havane
2. Menthe Fraiche
3. Tobacco Vanille
4. L'Air Du Desert Marocain
5. Green Irish Tweed
7. Musc Ravageur
8. Tonka Imperial
9. Gucci Pour Homme II
10. Dior Homme Intense
Oh come on, eBay's not that bad if you use common sense. My positives far outweigh the bad on there. And I can sell scents there often times that don't move for me on the swap board. Caveat emptor.
Yes, the one thing I must give credit to is Buyer Protection. eBay along with Paypal are intolerant of fakes (they both know that distributing fakes is a felony, not a simple misdemeanor). Both times I got a fake, the seller told me to hold onto the bottle. I suppose I can still use the fragrance...if I am absolutely desperate. This fake The One smells horrid, but dries down to a scent that my family member classified as "not bad." Definitely no where near as nice as the real The One. Same with my fake Le Male, opens up smelling similar to Le Male, but definitely a little denser and not as nice (it does last 9+ hours even though it's a fake).
As long as I get my money back, and these scam artists learn a lesson (lets be honest, they're going to keep selling fakes), I'm happy.
enter the account name and see a full negative/neutral feedback rating...
Tom Ford Splits:Noir de Noir, Neroli Portofino, Lavender Palm, Plum Japonais, Champacca Absolute, Tobacco Vanille ONE LEFT: Italian Cypress, Patchouli Absolu, Amber Absolute, Tuscan Leather, Oud Wood
Most of the time I am very proud of the Basenotes community. Time after time I have witnessed the thoughtfulness, empathy & genuine friendship that members of this community extend to others - oldtimers & newcomers alike. There are other times, however, when egos get the upper hand and civility goes out the window. My philosophy is that I won't say anything here that I would not say if you were standing in front of me. Welcome to Basenotes, each and every one of us. ~ TwoRoads
Thank you for that link. Yes, I am definitely aware that sellers can request that feedback be changed (from the buyer). My former boss would contact buyers and do everything possible to have them correct negative feedback.
I was not aware we could see old feedback, thank you so much!
P.s, the seller did in fact have 2 negative and 2 neutral feedback (1 fake fragrance, 1 set of counterfeit shoes).
YOU CAN BUY AUTHENTIC PERFUMES ON EBAY, I HAVE BOUGHT MANY MANY MANY AND SOLD MANY MANY MANY. JUST FOLLOW THE "TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE" RULES AND YOU SHOULD BE FINE.
I too sell on ebay, I consider myself honest and I have always sold guaranteed genuine original real deal frags.
I Take my own pictures...and most importantly, I have adopted the "walmart" customer satisfaction policy that the customer is always right... this is mostly due to the fact that ebay will not protect the sellers. I have sold a couple things that the buyer received and for whatever reason was not happy with (color, size, condition etc) and I IMMEDIATELY refund their money (ebay does not require I send the money immediately, they DO require the buyer send the item back before the refund MUST be issued) But I go the extra mile to make sure everyone is happy. I refund their money right away and I apologize profusely for the wasting of their time if that is the case, or for the misunderstanding. (problems will always happen, what matters most is that you recognize the buyers time is equally as valuable as your own, and no one likes to not be understood) so I work hard to make sure I do EVERYTHING I CAN to ensure happiness.
HOWEVER, despite sending the money back for the items and asking that they return the item (keep in mind these are not bad or broken, just not the right "fit" or "doesnt work for what they needed") and the buyer NEVER RETURNS THE ITEM.
At this point, after having refunded the money I have ZERO LEVERAGE and ebay nor paypal will do ANYTHING to help me get my item back. SO I LOST MY ITEM, MY PROFITS, MY SHIPPING, MY PACKING MATERIALS.
long story short...as it applies to this situation and the fake perfume, demand a refund be made FIRST, then just done send it back. I GUARANTEE ebay will do nothing to you for keeping it. Lord knows I have tried.
Maybe you got lucky with sellers who didn't want to fight. The seller who sent me a fake really thought she could still find a way to make a profit from me. First, she offered me a refund minus the 15% restocking fee. RESTOCKING A FAKE? No. Then she agreed to refund the full amount, but she needed me to send the fake back and she wanted me to PAY to do so. NO! She swore she wouldn't resell it. I asked if I could break it and send it back that way in order to prevent it from being resold. (I'd already provided her with proof it was counterfeit). She wouldn't agree... obviously, since she wanted to resell it! Both eBay and PayPal fought me too even though I'd provided them both with proof it was a fake. They were more than happy to give me my money back, but only if I sent the item back to the seller, but there was NO way I would agree to do that since I knew the seller would turn around and resell it to someone else, or she'd claim the item was returned damaged in order to prevent me from getting my refund.
I have zero faith in eBay and PayPal in terms of buyer protection. They don't want to get involved with anything that could be a legal matter, which means if a seller fights, there's no protection for the buyer at all unless you're willing to send the item back... but if the seller knows they'll get busted by trying to sell it again, they'll probably claim the item was returned damaged and fight the refund.
The amount of evidence I had in writing against this seller was crazy, but eBay and PayPal still wanted me to return the item!
----- First, let's address the appearance of the fake I received. The color of the bottle was wrong. The color of the sprayer nozzle was WAY wrong (white, not black). The sticker at the bottom was wrong. And the smell? It wasn't even perfume/cologne/fragrance.
----- The seller admitted via eBay correspondence the item was a fake before I even provided visual proof (which I did once I got my hands on a real bottle of the same to shw the differences). BOOM! That should be the end of it, right? Nope. eBay didn't care.
----- The seller sent me a business card with a different eBay ID blacked out, but there was enough legible to see that it didn't match the ID I bought from. I was suspicious, so I forwarded it to eBay and checked with them on the phone. EBAY CONFIRMED THE SELLER HAD MULTIPLE BANNED IDS. Still, they wouldn't find in my favor unless I sent back the item. Now, it's important to note that eBay records all of their calls. I mention this because once the representative said "Oh, yeah, I see 4 banned accounts for this person" I got bumped up to a supervisor. The supervisor told me I wasn't supposed to get that information, and I needed to send the fake back to the seller. I was mad at that point, so I called back and spoke to someone else at eBay for the sake of confirming their records as having proof of multiple banned IDs for this seller. I gave this 2nd representative the seller's phone number and address (home and email). Response? "I do see multiple banned accounts" and I was bumped up to a supervisor who could neither confirm nor deny, but stated that I had to send the item back to the seller in order to get a refund.
----- The seller made all sorts of ridiculous claims, some of which were about eBay rules which a quick call to eBay disproved, and others which were downright comical. For example, she gave me a sob story about being a single mother using this to support her. A few days later, she said the stress of this was bothering her HUSBAND. Single mom with a husband?
----- The seller offered a full refund in exchange for not giving her poor feedback. That's against ebay policies. I forwarded that to ebay. CRICKETS. They do not care.
----- She then tried to bribe me with fake merchandise in exchange for a 5 star review. Obviously, that's against ebay policies. I forwarded that to ebay too. No response. They do not care.
eBay seriously does not care. Buyer Protection is a marketing tool and nothing more. Oh, and let's see... what ever happened to the seller? The seller is still on eBay today even though she has already been banned under different accounts multiple times and has a police record attached to her current ID. eBay doesn't care.
Her scam is really simple: she sells $1 fakes for $50. They don't even have fragrance in them. Mine came with something that smelled like a cleaning product. And if she gets a complaint, she immediately offers a refund, minus a restocking fee, in exchange for returning the item so she can sell it again. And if anybody fights, she drops the restocking fee and, if push comes to shove, offers free stuff, which is of course fake and costs her next to nothing anyway. And that's why she has 97% positive feedback. eBay knows all of this. They have proof including admission from the seller on all counts I've mentioned here. eBay. Does. Not. Care. Their only priority is to keep themselves out of any legal issues. Yes, they offer buyer protection, but if my case wasn't a crystal clear example of fraud, what in the heck is?
And since there's no way for multiple buyers who were sold fakes by one seller to get in touch with each other, eBay has nothing to worry about because you can't prove they already know a seller has been busted for dealing in fraud.
eBay, absolutely positively
without a shadow of a doubt,
does not care.
Neither does PayPal.
Unless you're willing to make it a legal matter, and by that, I mean lawyers involved, they don't care. They just want to find a way to cut it down the middle and make both parties happy, even if one of them is a documented dealer in counterfeits. Again, the seller in my case agreed in writing that she sent me a fake. eBay and PayPal didn't care.
If you really look at how they've set the system up to protect themselves, you'll realize just how little they care about anything other than their bottom line.
That being said... I don't agree that 99% of all frags sold on eBay are fake. But buyer protection definitely isn't something you can count on. The eBay feedback system isn't something you can easily rely on either. eBay was quick to agree with me that what the seller was doing to cheat the system was against their rules (offering me merch in exchange for a 5 star review, withholding my refund until I gave her a 5 star review, etc), and since she did this via messages to me on eBay, they had access to her words as proof of fraud, but they did nothing.
eBay does not care. Their buyer protection is iffy at best.
Oh, and last but not least, I double-dog-dare ANYONE from PayPal or eBay to dispute one single word of what I've said here. URLs to their system instantly prove every word of what I've just said (eBay and PayPal have access to all correspondence between buyers and sellers so long as it's done on eBay. NEVER contact a seller directly. ALWAYS do so via messages on eBay, for your own protection). Plus, they have the police report AND the copy of the seller's business card with a previously banned ID visible enough to see that it doesn't match. And by plugging in her phone number, also on her business card, they can see her other multiple banned IDs on their system.
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And, again, for the record: the only reason I'm not outing the seller here is because I'm hoping she eventually gets busted in a sting.
Last edited by L'Homme Blanc Individuel; 11th October 2012 at 07:42 AM.
The thing is, I do not leave any room for error. I make one thing clear to the seller; I know exactly what I am doing. The message I get across is "Feel free to fight, but I've proven to you that you will only be wasting your time, and more importantly, mine."
Here is exactly what I do:
I contact the seller. My message is not "short and to the point." It is long, unambiguous, and very detailed. I send an image of the fake bottle, standing by a real bottle if I have access to one. In the message I point out everything that is fake about it. From the details of the bottle to the juice.
Every seller so far has replied with the same exact copy-paste formatted email. "We are sorry...didn't know it was a fake...vendors fault...will investigate" yada yada.
Do not contact paypal or eBay right away, that is just a waste of time. All PP and eBay will do is request proof (neither eBay nor PayPal know whether or not the seller is selling counterfeit goods, how could they?) But the seller knows darn well that he/she is. I don't care how much they claim it is the vendors fault, no one is stupid enough to purchase multiple potentially fake bottles from a vendor. Every one of these sellers knows exactly what they are getting.
Let me also add that Buyer Protection is not a marketing tool. It has come through for me every single time I have used it (5+ times so far, on other goods) and PayPals protection has done the same. I said it in your other thread, I will say it again. These are PEOPLE who have to make a call. They HAVE TO decide who wins the case. They DO NOT have any PHYSICAL proof in front of them. These people aren't trained to tell whether or not a bottle is fake or not. All they know is they have to take someone's word for it, and the person with 10,000 feedback at 99% "is probably legitimate." I can not really blame them, although I believe a new method should be implemented for outing fakes.
And just as an FYI, I worked for a company whose main resource was e-commerce. Everything we did was on eBay and Amazon, along with a few other online-auction style sites. We used eBay the most. For 2 months straight, the shipping-packing department was making errors. Packages weren't getting to where they needed to go, items were sent broken, etc.
Within those 2 months, we received a substantial amount of negative feedback. Within weeks we were warned to get our act together or eBay would shut us down.
After another month, we were shut down by eBay.
eBay uses the feedback system to decide who stays and who goes, nothing else.
Last edited by MikeJ; 11th October 2012 at 07:44 AM.
P.S. Am I bitter? YES. I think it's shameful that eBay and PayPal do so little to keep such blatant and documented fraudulent users out of their system. And, again, if any representative from PayPal or eBay would like to contact me to dispute ONE WORD of what I've said here, PLEASE DO. All they have to do is PM me here and I will happily give them my home phone number because I would absolutely love to discuss this. I'd be thrilled to. They should be ashamed. Absolutely, positively and unquestionably ashamed.
If someone can go to the length that I went to to document fraud and STILL they do nothing about it, they should absolutely, positively and unquestionably feel ashamed. But they don't. And do you know why? I'll tell you why. They don't because THEY DO NOT CARE. A dollar from a crook is just as good as an honest dollar to them.
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Last edited by L'Homme Blanc Individuel; 11th October 2012 at 08:00 AM.
There are loads of really nice sellers out there too. I have bought many perfumes on ebay and have yet to receive a fake, but I am buying vintage and used, so maybe a lesser chance of anyone bothering. I've had a few disappointments with carelessly packed breakages and leaks, but that's the nature of the game. Most souls are obliging and will refund. It will always be the crooks who won't play the rules anyway because they don't care in the first place.
There are however certain sellers who I wouldn't touch with a bargepole... if you are always watching the same type of auctions for extremely rare vintage perfumes..... and the same seller (not naming any names) comes up time and time again selling the rarest kind of Chanel Cuir de Russie (amongst similar types) in the extremely vintage bottles for huge amounts and seems to have an unlimited supply of such things????? .......And all the sales are private????.....Maybe it is a real genuine person who has collected it for years and has a warehouse full... really eh???? Even a listed complaint appears to have been authenticated as fake by Chanel.... BUT.... the sales keep on going and the clients seem happy. Why? Maybe the fakes are littered with real. Who knows? You just need to keep your own eyes sharply peeled.
I also agree about Amazon. Just be careful, it is the structure that is good and efficient, but the sellers are still all private. It is just a more trusted umbrella.
99% of '99% statements' are 100% BS.
I had more problems with sellers on ebay with claims of 'pure essential oil' that show up as dilutions than with fake frags but I usually stay away from the most popular faked frags. I did get caught on a couple I didn't know were popular to fake until afterwards but got full refunds without having to send the bottle back each time.
Sorry for your bad buy.
I find it quite easy to pick out what's fake or not with a decent amount of certainty when buying on ebay.
Beyond some standard alerts like no 100ml, no stock photo's, it really is a question of communicating with the seller.
If in doubt I would make a thread on bn and ask for the expertise of other posters, i've done that a few times with immediate results.
My current top ten:
1. Oud Wood
2. Spice and Wood
4. Pure Malt
5. Tonka Imperial
6. Dior Homme
7. Epic Man
8. L'air Du Desert Marocain
9. Noir de Noir
10. Terre D'Hermes
L'Homme Blanc, I definitely understand where you're coming from, I would be bitter too.
And yes, you had an extremely persistent seller. The majority of counterfeit sellers on eBay know they are selling fakes. They try their best to get away with it and they typically do, since most people don't even know what the real version of the fake they bought smells like. I honestly wish I could afford to decant a 1ml sample of a certain sellers more commonly faked scent, and just send it to said sellers buyers.
I tend not to buy the very common designer frags on ebay. Too high of a risk of a fake. Niche/rare stuff tends to be pretty safe for the most part. *knocks on wood*
Yeah, in the end, the seller I dealt with knew she was selling fakes. She admitted she sold me a fake. But she was persistent because she thought she could still get $50 out of the transaction, if not from me then from someone else when I returned the bottle.
I think most sellers on eBay are very good, and this is where eBay buyer protection comes in. It helps keep good sellers honest. But if you're dealing with a crook, eBay and PayPal aren't on your side. They're not on the buyer's side either, really. They want nothing to do with any of it. I'll continue to use eBay. I've had lots of good experiences and only two bad. In one case, the seller screwed up and made it right in the end. No harm done. But this particular case I wrote about above really taught me a lot about the inner workings of eBay. I can definitely see how a crook could make a lot of money with eBay. That's a shame.
I wonder if it would count as libel if we listed each of the sellers we suspected. I would love to, but would only be worried about this in case an innocent party got accidentally mixed up in the bad bag. It would have to be worded so carefully and each seller perhaps ought to be given the right to defend themselves really. It may just get BN into trouble and we wouldn't want that. Perhaps it could be a 'pass-it-on-to-whoever-wanted-it-private-PM' that got added to. I suppose that might work but only to prevent a purchase and not to be used as a libellous weapon.
I don't really know how it could be done. Maybe here but without exactly mentioning names.
an ancient Italian South saying goes like this "saved money is wasted money!" so sorry for you, mate...besides I much prefer buy stuff in shops, the parcel full of juices is so solipsistic, I had to get a few of them since I was buying vintage but only from local shops I know.... too traps and frauds on the net....... I stopped using it when I got 130 $ stolen from my card!
I don't think names of bad eBay sellers should be named here. There is potential for abuse and for liability.
Buyers who name names may also find they have exposed their eBay ID, with consequent loss of privacy.
I just noticed something that is very suspicious. I looked up Le Male on amazon and none of the listings had any reviews. How is that possible? Did they remove the reviews because of complaints about fakes or did I miss the page with all the reviews somehow? Or something else?
UPDATE: I had to search for Le Male on Amazon through google to find the pages with the reviews.
Visit my huge swap page: http://www.basenotes.net/threads/211...-ml-Gotham-etc
Or visit my Sales page: http://www.basenotes.net/threads/211...o-make-offers!
Samples, etc. for Sale at my Crystal Flacon page: http://flacon.ambaric.net/viewtopic.php?t=282
My fragrance blog: http://bigslyfragrance.wordpress.com/
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It's not only that Ebay seems to protect the fraudulent sellers, but also punishes legitimate ones. Example: I've been selling several perfumes this year, and suddenly Ebay blocks my account for a month. Explanation: they want to avoid the sale of counterfeits. What the hell? If I have 100 % positive votes on all my sales, what gave them any kind of hint towards me supposedly selling fakes?
Lousy, lousy Ebay.
Kurt smells like Teen Spirit
Lol, I want you guys who buy eBay cologne to post high res detailed pics of your box and cologne bottles so I can ruin your world. I'll prove they are fake. You are just gullible and wearing fake cologne.
Hahaha eggy, that post just made my morning.
And yes, L'Homme Blanc I honestly do think you did the right thing. Unfortunately, in a society where everyone is engaging in ecommerce and there is no face to face interaction, this kind of stuff is easy to get away with. Heck, it was only a decade ago that if you were ripped off, you would get your money back and the merchant would end up with a black eye! I do not condone the use of violence by the way.
I like the idea of placing black ink in the bottle, but why punish someone else?
And do everyone who wants to post the ID of counterfeit sellers, that's the beauty of freedom of speech, however I would not recommend it. I would start a chain email with the user id's of these sellers, but with this "generous" 25 message inbox rule, I don't think people would be fond of receiving this sort of PM.
jeightseven, you can take your 204 posts, that apparently merit your expertise, and go fly a kite with them . Have a wonderful day/morning/evening.