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Thread: Agarwood smoke

  1. #1
    Basenotes Member
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    Default Agarwood smoke

    Dear basenoters,

    I have recently happened to sample Amouage Interlude, and I was blown away by what I feel is a strong opium note, which gives a powerful twist to the beautiful oud.

    Now, I read in the list of notes provided by Amouage an "agarwood smoke" that I've never come across with before and I suspect the "opiate" feeling be down to that (I'm not sure though - could it be the oregano instead?).

    Anyway, I was wondering what that agarwood smoke is, as I couldn't find any references and I'd really love to be able to play with that note in my compositions.

    Any ideas?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    Could you share with us naifs what opium actually smells like? I'm intrigued...

    As for creating an "agarwood smoke" note maybe you could try tobacco abs, vanilla tincture or abs, beeswax abs and probably some dry woody synthetics like kephalis. Do you have agarwood chips (have you burned them)? You can tincture them but it takes a while for a smell somewhat close to the smoke.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    I used to know what opium smoke smelled like...... but now I can't remember...lol! Opium looked like black sticky treacle. I don't remember it having a very strong smell itself, but I would doubt the validity of my state of mind at the time. It was a very long time ago. All in the name of perfumery science guv.

    Agarwood notes would be along the lines of birch tar with a medicinal camphorous herbal note, oregano might do that in small quantities and softer mature woods, but not a gentle wood, a sharper darker one like the darkest parts of cedar, not soft sandalwood. I would imagine if you smelled some treacle and put an almost caramel touch in there somewhere. Think brown and sticky with sharp and nearly acrid in a nice way, but more towards incense without going there. Some indolic quality would be deep inside, maybe a micro dot of sambac to soften the wood and give it that fecal edge perhaps. Castoreum may too.

    I tried to make some long ago. I will go and dig out the formula I used. It didn't quite work then but I haven't smelled it since.

    You know you'll have to get some now don't you? It's an expensive and intriguing path. Dangerous and very nice.

  4. #4
    Basenotes Member
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    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    I'd describe the opium's smell as dark-green, bitter, earthy, sappy, bit medicinale and slightly tart. A very dark-burnt smell, in fact getting it in Interlude made me think of how fine it would be sweetened down through some floral notes - I'd let it play with some rose and osmanthus, if I were to.

    Amouage gives Agarwood smoke, but I don't really get the "smoke", if not by association with opium, not because it smells smoky, but because it's usually smoked . Unless burnt agarwood smells like opium, which I don't know

  5. #5

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    According to hedonist, burnt oud smells very close to Dior Leather oud, so you can use that as a reference.

    Curious myself to know what opium smells like. Poppies themselves don't smell like anything.

    cacio

  6. #6

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    Cacio is correct. Leather Oud smellsn exactly like burning oud wood. The tricky part is whether your nose can segregate the copious amount of leather and dollops of civet to be able to pick out the fumigated oud note.

    for swap/sale:





  7. #7

  8. #8
    Basenotes Member
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    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    sounds interesting

  9. #9

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    I would imagine if you smelled some treacle and put an almost caramel touch in there somewhere. Think brown and sticky with sharp and nearly acrid in a nice way, but more towards incense without going there.
    I immediately thought of Opoponax absolute...

    Mumsy, I'd love to sit down with you and discuss your stormy youth! LOL

  10. #10

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    Stormy youth was good then.... no mobile phones, no Facebook, no twitter.... nobody to snitch

    I did smell something interesting today that may be useful. I bought myself some sweet birch oil with no idea what it was going to be like and it was absolutely not anything like I expected. I've only sniffed from the bottle and not done a full scent profile but I got a blast of sticking plaster and germoline which may seem irrelevant but it could serve for that medicinal note maybe. I don't know if it stays in the smell for the smoke.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Oveis View Post
    ...dark-green, bitter, earthy, sappy, bit medicinale and slightly tart. A very dark-burnt smell
    This description makes me think of isobutyl quinoline, at least for the green-earthy-dark part. People usually describe castoreum bases to me as smoky, sometimes medicinal.

    The agarwood that I've smelled at Enfleurage in New York was woody but had tobacco and honey like undertones. Tobacco absolute would definitely help in creating that note, I would think. The Firmenich oud base is supposed to be close to natural oud. I found it nice, kind of old-woody, not as rich as natural oud. Givaudan's Black Agar base is rather different from the Firmenich--it's very soft, sweeter, kind of ambery, and to my nose has a caramellic note.

  12. #12
    New Member
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    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    I just found this forum for the first time today because I was experimenting with oud absolute with a minimal inclusion of florals. I was suddenly reminded of that mysterious opium scent that can not be described, but I know when I smell something familiar. I decided to do a search online and lo and behold, a whole world of scent obsessed people are out there, not just me! Will anyone laugh if I say that when I smell organic white corn tortilla chips I am reminded of that elusive scent? It's sweet, savory, but something else....

  13. #13

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    You don't qualify to sell here & this is not the place anyway

    Edit
    - was a reply to a random new member selling stuff on various threads - sorry, might look even stranger without it.
    Last edited by lpp; 9th May 2013 at 11:29 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    Yes, Strange, seems like it was deleted...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  15. #15

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    Looked like I was having a go at you if it was left, perhaps?
    Your post was better than mine
    Last edited by lpp; 10th May 2013 at 04:29 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    I was interested to get a Facebook announcement from Arcadi Boix Camps of the result of 30 years of testing and research for a new, renewable, unlimited supply, supposedly completely olfactorily clonal in nature, Oud series of bases.

    "Dear friends, have you seen our new reconstituted Agarwood oils, AGARWOOD JEWEL 40828/D, 40828-2/D and 40828-3/D???? They are the best in the world. We worked 30 years on them. Price US $ 1,250.00 per kilo and unlimited production. Lasts 24 hours in the skin and many days on the cloths.... Do you want to use agarwood oils without fearing you won't have enough for your needs? Go ahead... they are jewels!!!!! They impart 99% the same smell as the genuine which are extremely expensive and not available for big projects. We succeeded!"
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  17. #17

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    Maybe they will send you a sample. I expect it will be a chemical result of gas analysis.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    Interesting site, Paul - nice to hear more.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    I have a formula that I've found that is supposed to mimic Agarwood oil, and I am slowly accumulating the elements.

    One key item is certainly there in many agarwood oils, at least as I smell them.

    But looking over a GC of agarwood oil, you would see several elements that are agarwood specific, because they start or include the "agar" as part of their names, like
    Oxoagarospirol
    beta-Agarofuran

    So it would be interesting how to try to mimic those aspects in a reformulation...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  20. #20

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    When you look at how many oud impression perfumes that are out there, everyone else finds it interesting too!

    The perfumers apprentice do one called Black agar but it is a bit dark and smoky. There is nothing quite like the real thing and there is no one the same as another, so any reformulation would have to emulate a specific kind or a feel of it. Sweet birch gives a good representation of that elastoplast side of it. I made some reproductions ages ago just for fun whilst I was obsessing with it, and it is not too difficult to get a fair representation of the front smell, but it is the longevity, the depth and most certainly the many levels of complexity that is so very hard to achieve. If you were using chems then the longevity issue wouldn't be so difficult with a touch of norimabanol or the like. Useful ingredient link here.

    Beautiful oudhs dance like a shimmering veil for a very long and beautiful time. They have multitudinous depths that chems just do not have. IMO only.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    I second Mumsy in here remarks.

    I've found the Black Agar from PA a bit to sweet, amber, as if it's a accord with a hint of Oudh in it. Suits me very well in some compositions. The PA however, sells an IMHO rather good Oud blend too from Firmenich. It's not as good as the real thing (and even real Oudh differs in all kinds of varieties en qualities), but as close as you can get by aroma chemical blends.

    I've done some compositions with both Black Agar and Oud Blend (F), and like to add a touch of smoke.

    But then again, i've some samples from Muhammad Taftazani which i can recommend, and they are way above the aroma chemicals in terms of depth. Excellent stuff & service.

    Your'e welcome to visit my formulation blog, with a dozen of perfume formulations and accords to share!

  22. #22

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    Yes, Muhammad is a good guy.

    My oud Blend for Dirty Rose Oud coming out soon, is both oud blends, plus Cambodian ouds.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  23. #23

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    Did somebody call me? Hehehehe

    Mimic a Jinn.

    Oud itself are different one to another, they are unique individuals, a single species from a different area would smell different. I just did GC MS to Papuan(Merauke) oud oil. The surprising part, it has no furanoids and agarospirol!! It is mostly content alloaromadendrene at 17%, it has 40 compounds, and a single compound that GC MS has no clue about it. The smell of oud is also depend on it's distilling process. Personaly I hate soaking, it makes the oil smell foul to me. Especially Indonesian.
    If one wish to talk indepth about agarwood I always be happy to help. PM me or email me in.
    Knowlegde is power, oud is stinky ? think again...

  24. #24

    Default Re: Agarwood smoke

    Colette describes opium as smelling like burning chocolate. It has a sweet scent when burning (a rather earthy, soil-like, vegetable scent when raw). See the opium entry in my blog jimcooks.com/blog.

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