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  1. #1

    Default Sandalwood Perfume

    I'm creating a woody perfume based on sandalwood. I've included a number of synthetics (cedramber, kephalis, cedryl acetate etc.) as well as naturals (cedar, sandalwood, a trace of oud) but am having trouble with persistance and sillage. Does anyone have an idea of how I can amplify the sandalwood? Or the woody notes in general?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    Just something interesting I noticed when trying to make a monster stinker of street niffs for my sons play was that some notes actually cancel each other out rather than amplify. So 3 + 3 doesn't necessarily get you to 6...

    Rather than amplifying wood with more wood, it may be worth trying to fill up the wooden keg with some wine or flowers to make that fullness. Picking up and amping on one of the wood nuances rather than the woody feel itself.

    Just a thought rather than any fountain of knowledge here.
    Currently wearing: Civet by Houbigant

  3. #3

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    +1 what mumsy said. I made a basic scent containing sandalwood and vetiver and decided to add petitgrain. Rather than adding a light citric note as I expected the petitgrain turned the sandalwood dark, broody and peppery and made it prominent. Not saying you should add petitgrain but a good illustration that things don't always go the way you expect.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    Mumsy's statement about certain notes cancelling themselves out is certainly true. When I'm playing around with chypre accords I get wonderful results with oak moss + labdanum, oak moss + vetiver and oak moss + methyl ionone. But when I try oak moss + ylang I get practically nothing! These two "power notes" just nullify each other!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    For powerful Sandalwood try Javanol or, Polysantol, and to increase power try a touch of Ambrocinide. Iso E Super has great sillage although your nose quickly tires of it. This could be your problem in general; many people have trouble smelling musk and woody notes, especially Sandalwood notes. Could be that your fragrance is working but you can't smell it.

    Mumsy is, of course, absolutely right. Perfumers try to get a situation where 1+1 equals much more than 2 (where an accord really works), unfortunately the opposite can happen.

    Woody notes often work well with Violet (Methyl Ionone), or Moss. Or even Cistus.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    Lots of excellent advice here already, so I'll just add another idea for a synthetic that can work well in amplifying woody notes, which is norlimbanol: you don't need much but it is extremely tenacious. There are lots of sandalwood replacers about, in addition to those David mentions you might try Ebanol, Santaliff, Sandalore or a combination of them.

    I think the petitgrain idea is also very sound - in my experience it works very well with woody notes.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by James Peterson View Post
    I'm creating a woody perfume based on sandalwood. I've included a number of synthetics (cedramber, kephalis, cedryl acetate etc.) as well as naturals (cedar, sandalwood, a trace of oud) but am having trouble with persistance and sillage. Does anyone have an idea of how I can amplify the sandalwood? Or the woody notes in general?
    When you say naturals including sandalwood, what do you mean? Australian is prohibitively expensive and thus not used to my knowledge and Indian is not produced anymore. Safraleine is being used a lot though along with Polysantol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by James Peterson View Post
    I'm creating a woody perfume based on sandalwood. I've included a number of synthetics (cedramber, kephalis, cedryl acetate etc.) as well as naturals (cedar, sandalwood, a trace of oud) but am having trouble with persistance and sillage. Does anyone have an idea of how I can amplify the sandalwood? Or the woody notes in general?
    When you say naturals including sandalwood, what do you mean? Australian is prohibitively expensive and thus not used to my knowledge and Indian is not produced anymore. Safraleine is being used a lot though along with Polysantol.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    Thank you everyone for your thorough advice. I'm sorry that I lost track of this thread and only found it now as I was searching myself (yes, I tend to be egotistical). I've been experimenting with sandalwood for some time now and have come up with a product that I sell through the Brooklyn Perfume Company. I'd be fascinated to hear your responses to it. It is sold (along with 3 of my other perfumes) for $16 at The Twisted Lily in Brooklyn. Sorry about the money, but it isn't really my decision.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    You shouldn't be sorry about money. You'll need something to buy more ingredients with and more vials and the vendors need something to feed their families with.

    Money is merely a life lubricant. Not absolutely necessary but it does help to make it run a little more smoothly.
    Currently wearing: Civet by Houbigant

  10. #10

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by James Peterson View Post
    Thank you everyone for your thorough advice. I'm sorry that I lost track of this thread and only found it now as I was searching myself (yes, I tend to be egotistical). I've been experimenting with sandalwood for some time now and have come up with a product that I sell through the Brooklyn Perfume Company. I'd be fascinated to hear your responses to it. It is sold (along with 3 of my other perfumes) for $16 at The Twisted Lily in Brooklyn. Sorry about the money, but it isn't really my decision.
    Counting shipping, when I tried the website to see, the Sandalwood perfume sample came to only $8.50, if anyone would like just that sample (I recommend it.)

  11. #11

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    Mumsy, you're absolutely right. As I once heard: "Money is a great slave but a terrible master."

  12. #12

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    Chris, when you smelled the perfume I market for Brooklyn Perfume Company, you said that, while it's a pleasant scent, you had little sense (no pun intended) of sandalwood. This, of course, puts me back in the same boat: how to magnify the sandalwood aroma. I find the aroma of sandalwood to be quite subtle. I also appreciate the advice of not trying to amplify wood with wood but to try something non-wood (such as petitgrain). I'm tempted to add more sandalwood to the mix but I don't think that will do the trick. (Incidentally I claim on the bottle that I use Mysore sandalwood. I make this claim not because I have proof of its origin (I'd have to go to India and watch them fell the tree) but because, out of 15 different sandalwoods I've collected, I've used the best one. If anyone has any ideas as to which to try, I'd appreciate any help. I now own:
    "Sandalwood Mysore" from Abbey
    "Sandalwood Royal Hawaiian" from Eden
    "Sandalwood Sri Lankan" from Floracopea
    "Mysore Sandalwood" from Agarscents
    "Sandalwood Absolute" from New Caledonia, Eden
    Sandalwood from a supplier in Singapore that is marked "cultivated"
    Same supplier, but the sandalwood is labeled "wild.
    A reliable antique sandalwood from the 30s
    "Sandalwood-Tamil 2012" Nature's Gift
    "Sandalwood East Indian" New Directions
    "Sandalwood Kupang" Agarscents
    "Sandalwood-Rare" Eden
    "Sandalwood-Mysore" (Came in a tiny blue bottle with no supplier on it)
    "Sandalwood Heartwood" John Steele
    "Mysore" Sandalwood from the cheap perfume place (I don't mean the Twisted Lily) around the corner from me

    Anyone want to guess the winner (after taking the antique from the 30s out of the equation)? It's the stuff from the cheap perfume place around the corner. I went in one afternoon and asked them if they had any sandalwood. He gives me a bottle to sell and it has absolutely no aroma. I say I want something better and he gives me another sample to smell, also odorless. After some cajoling he mentions that he has some other stuff but that no one buys it since it's so expensive. Ha Ha. My ears perk up, I smell the stuff, and to my inexperienced nose, at least, smells divine. I buy 250 ml. I'll probably find out at some point that it's half synthetics (maybe they'll give me their secret), but at this point it's great.
    If anyone has a source for authentic Mysore (even the wild kind from an antique source), I'd be most interested. I'm committed to using on the best ingredients in my perfumes.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by James Peterson View Post
    Chris, when you smelled the perfume I market for Brooklyn Perfume Company, you said that, while it's a pleasant scent, you had little sense (no pun intended) of sandalwood. This, of course, puts me back in the same boat: how to magnify the sandalwood aroma. I find the aroma of sandalwood to be quite subtle. I also appreciate the advice of not trying to amplify wood with wood but to try something non-wood (such as petitgrain). I'm tempted to add more sandalwood to the mix but I don't think that will do the trick. (Incidentally I claim on the bottle that I use Mysore sandalwood. I make this claim not because I have proof of its origin (I'd have to go to India and watch them fell the tree) but because, out of 15 different sandalwoods I've collected, I've used the best one. If anyone has any ideas as to which to try, I'd appreciate any help. I now own:
    "Sandalwood Mysore" from Abbey
    "Sandalwood Royal Hawaiian" from Eden
    "Sandalwood Sri Lankan" from Floracopea
    "Mysore Sandalwood" from Agarscents
    "Sandalwood Absolute" from New Caledonia, Eden
    Sandalwood from a supplier in Singapore that is marked "cultivated"
    Same supplier, but the sandalwood is labeled "wild.
    A reliable antique sandalwood from the 30s
    "Sandalwood-Tamil 2012" Nature's Gift
    "Sandalwood East Indian" New Directions
    "Sandalwood Kupang" Agarscents
    "Sandalwood-Rare" Eden
    "Sandalwood-Mysore" (Came in a tiny blue bottle with no supplier on it)
    "Sandalwood Heartwood" John Steele
    "Mysore" Sandalwood from the cheap perfume place (I don't mean the Twisted Lily) around the corner from me

    Anyone want to guess the winner (after taking the antique from the 30s out of the equation)? It's the stuff from the cheap perfume place around the corner. I went in one afternoon and asked them if they had any sandalwood. He gives me a bottle to sell and it has absolutely no aroma. I say I want something better and he gives me another sample to smell, also odorless. After some cajoling he mentions that he has some other stuff but that no one buys it since it's so expensive. Ha Ha. My ears perk up, I smell the stuff, and to my inexperienced nose, at least, smells divine. I buy 250 ml. I'll probably find out at some point that it's half synthetics (maybe they'll give me their secret), but at this point it's great.
    If anyone has a source for authentic Mysore (even the wild kind from an antique source), I'd be most interested. I'm committed to using on the best ingredients in my perfumes.
    I have been fiddling around with Sandalwood today and found that Hedione (especially the HC stuff) can give great projection to this material.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by James Peterson View Post
    If anyone has a source for authentic Mysore (even the wild kind from an antique source), I'd be most interested.
    You are looking for something that is currently unsustainable and very depleted. Out of interest, have you already tried the other sorts of sustainable sandalwood?

    These are mine for comparison. (@20% dilution in ethanol).



    From left to right

    Album from Quinessence, Mysore from an ebay source long ago, Wild Royal Indonesian from Ham Firl, Wild Mysore Royal D super finest from Ham Firl, Burmese sandal from a BNer friend, Mysore (gift from Australian source), Egyptian (bought by a neighbour when there), Sri Lankan ( bought by another neighbour when there in 2007), Sandal Musk Attar from Prasad, Amyris balsam by MNG, Indian (busy re-sourcing), Spicatum by NHA.
    Currently wearing: Civet by Houbigant

  15. #15

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    James, you sent me a Sandalwood fragrance, with other things. I commented on it; you ignored me.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    [QUOTE=James Peterson;3502628](Incidentally I claim on the bottle that I use Mysore sandalwood. I make this claim not because I have proof of its origin (I'd have to go to India and watch them fell the tree) but because, out of 15 different sandalwoods I've collected, I've used the best one./[QUOTE]

    But you're unsure of it's origin? Why claim it to be Mysore? Chances are the vast majority of current perfume buyers have never smelled Mysore sandalwood.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    Hello I.D. Adam. I have a gold standard, obtained from a basenoter, that is from the 30s. After smelling 15 sandalwoods, I selected the one that most resembled my antique. I felt there was enough similarity to put Mysore in my literature. If I'm wrong, let the devil slay me.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    I am pretty sure that I know exactly what real Mysore smells like, but I am not sure whether I can tell a fake or not.

    I have a nice oil that claims to be true Mysore, smells like Mysore, looks and feels like Mysore, but I am damn sure it is not by the price and the colour. There are places where it is easy to get oils tested. I'm not sure of any claims of truth because forgeries have been rife for too many years with such a valuable material. Forgers are quite good perfumers.
    Currently wearing: Civet by Houbigant

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