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  1. #1

    Default perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Hi,

    Can anyone suggest some perfume formulas that would use perfumers alcohol, glycerin, distilled water and the fragrance oils?

    I want to use between 10-15% fragrance oil

    Thanks so much!

  2. #2

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Why would you want to put glycerine in it? You will create all sorts of solubility problems and make your fragrance sticky on the skin to boot.

    Distilled water is also not necessary but with 10-15% fragrance materials you could probably get away with 5% water to make it a bit cheaper to produce, depending on what's in your perfumer's alcohol. If your perfumers alcohol contains isopropyl myristate I wouldn't risk adding water as it's likely to go cloudy.

    Also be aware that you need to use pure or near-pure fragrance materials for this to work - pure essential oils and aroma chemicals rather than the sort of fragrance oil often sold for use directly and confusingly often called 'pure perfume oil' by those who sell it - it's really at best 30% fragrance materials, with the rest some kind of carrier oil that may or may not dissolve in ethanol.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  3. #3

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    My fragrance oil supplier suggested the following percentages for the perfume I am planning to create:
    Fragrance: 10.48%
    Alcohol SDA-40: 79.00%
    DiH2O: 10.52%

    And I was reading the mixed reviews of adding dipropylene glycol or a glycerin for the scent to last longer on the skin. It seems the consensus on basenotes is that dipropylene glycol with do nothing to help with scent lasting on skin???? but with many online searches the consensus is that it does help with staying power....really confused on this one.

    My fragrance oil is pure and does not have any additives or carrier oils added to it.

    Thanks so much for any advice.

  4. #4

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Oh Gawd, this again. I don't care what anyone has read, all I know is what I have experienced in over 30 years as a perfumer. To my knowledge DPG is not used as a fixative in Perfumery.

    If you are unsure, why not experiment yourself? Take two samples of your fragrance mix; to one add some DPG (about 10.0%), leave the other alone. Dip your two samples and compare strength, and change in odour over a couple of hours. Should you wish, extend this over a couple of days. Smell, at first, every 30 minutes, then after an hour or so, smell every hour. Make notes, and come to a conclusion.

  5. #5

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Maybe we should go back to basics:

    Perfume is a mixture of a fragrance compound and alcohol. You don't add a fixative afterwards to a fragrance, the fragrance compound needs to have enough fixative power of its own. So in general: don't add glycerin, DPG, DEP, IPM, glucose syrup, BB, Herculyn D or whatever substance to your perfume as a fixative, purchase a good fragrance compound instead.

    When you paint the walls and the rain whashes the paint down you could spray a fixative (like a lacquer) over the wall, it might help, will affect the appearance, but it would be much better to use water resistant paint in the first place.

  6. #6

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    janmeut, you are exactly right. Thank you.

  7. #7

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Totally agree with Jan and David;
    however, there seems to be one "additive" called Glucam P-20, which acts as a post-added fixative for top/middle notes:

    Quote PerfumersApprentice: "This is a material used for the fixing of top and some middle notes. For example, experiments performed in house show that Sweet Orange essential oil (one of the most fleeting of scents- usually lasting only two minutes on the skin) was increased to last half an hour or more on the skin.
    Use up to 5% of your fragrance formula concentrate, but experiment! Using too much will "flatten" a fragrance."


    Website: http://www.lubrizol.com/PersonalCare...lucamP-20.html

  8. #8

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Thanks JSPARLA for reminding peeps of this one.

    And Still, adding glycerin is supremely BAD.
    but, "It's on the Internet, so it must be true!"

    WRONG!!!
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  9. #9

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Quote Originally Posted by jsparla View Post
    Totally agree with Jan and David;
    however, there seems to be one "additive" called Glucam P-20, which acts as a post-added fixative for top/middle notes:

    Quote PerfumersApprentice: "This is a material used for the fixing of top and some middle notes. For example, experiments performed in house show that Sweet Orange essential oil (one of the most fleeting of scents- usually lasting only two minutes on the skin) was increased to last half an hour or more on the skin.
    Use up to 5% of your fragrance formula concentrate, but experiment! Using too much will "flatten" a fragrance."


    Website: http://www.lubrizol.com/PersonalCare...lucamP-20.html
    It's certainly true that Glucam P-20 works as a fixative and is more-or-less odourless, but I still don't recommend adding separately - if I use it I build it in to the fragrance formula - just like benzyl benzoate, which is also an almost odourless fixative.

    Any fixative will have a differential impact on some components of the fragrance - so you may need to adjust other parts of the formula to compensate for it's effect - if you add some at the end the resulting fragrance will likely have more lasting power but may not smell the same as it did before you added it, even though the additive itself is odourless.

    I realise that's counter-intuitive but is essentially the same thing that David and others have describe in relation to materials they are anosmic to: even if you can't smell Benzyl salicylate on it's own you can detect the smoothing effect it has when it's in the blend. Hope that helps.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  10. #10

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    I would like to find a recipe for Dior's Tendre Poison?

  11. #11

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Ok, so I'll hijack this one as well - since I'm having some trouble with my supposed-to-be base notes..
    Thought of trying those almost-odorless fixatives, but I don't have any.. I know benzyl-benzoate,
    benzyl-cinnamate and cynnamyl-cinnamate.. Is there anything else I should consider buying to fix
    things?
    Thanks

  12. #12

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Ok, so I'll hijack this one as well - since I'm having some trouble with my supposed-to-be base notes..
    Thought of trying those almost-odorless fixatives, but I don't have any.. I know benzyl-benzoate,
    benzyl-cinnamate and cynnamyl-cinnamate.. Is there anything else I should consider buying to fix
    things?
    Thanks
    A couple of much-underrated fixatives with low-odour that you could consider are IPM and Hedione: they both have a wide-spectrum fixative effect and IPM is as good as odourless, while Hedione has a distinct odour it is easily pushed in the direction of other things itís used with.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  13. #13

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    ...while Hedione has a distinct odour it is easily pushed in the direction of other things itís used with.
    Is that what is meant when its called an exalter? I assumed it meant it provided a kind of harmony...making other notes "better" without taking over. Is that sort-of correct?

    I've been wanting to try using it, but was hesitant that it might really add jasmine as a note that might overpower (nothing's wrong with jasmine per se, just not where it's not needed).
    Last edited by Meriem; 18th March 2014 at 06:44 PM. Reason: HTML fix

  14. #14

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Quote Originally Posted by Meriem View Post
    Is that what is meant when its called an exalter? I assumed it meant it provided a kind of harmony...making other notes "better" without taking over. Is that sort-of correct?

    I've been wanting to try using it, but was hesitant that it might really add jasmine as a note that might overpower (nothing's wrong with jasmine per se, just not where it's not needed).
    Yes thatís pretty much it - exalt also often implies an improvement in diffusion and radiant certainly carries that implication.

    I wouldnít worry about introducing jasmine with hedione: thereís a good reason itís in 80% of the perfumes on the market, you can use it with almost anything and itís especially effective with citrus as well as many other florals besides jasmine. You can use anywhere from 1-50% of the formula too so well worth experimenting with.

    For even bigger impact you could also try Hedione HC, which I especially like in more masculine compositions.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  15. #15

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Thanks for explaining further. This is clearly something I do need to experiment with.

  16. #16

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Hmm.. too scared to use hedione - it always takes things to unexpected places..
    I'm a little confused about IPM - I thought that the bottom line was not to think of
    it as a fixative..
    Anyhow, I just ordered some cinnamyl cinnamate from Adam.. And some ambermax

  17. #17

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Hmm.. too scared to use hedione - it always takes things to unexpected places..
    I'm a little confused about IPM - I thought that the bottom line was not to think of
    it as a fixative..
    Anyhow, I just ordered some cinnamyl cinnamate from Adam.. And some ambermax
    I thought I'd let you know I've tried the hedione in different amounts in both things I'm trying to make, and I think (so far...) it's nothing to be too frightened of. When I opened it, I recognized it immediately from umpteen products (especially from a coworker's perfume, which must have it as a major note); it really does have a distinct scent (though, curiously, a friend who sniffed it couldn't actually smell it at all.) But when I added it, I really couldn't smell it in either mix -- except that the other elements really were immediately fattened up a bit. I think it's what's making the citrus-based mix I'm making, where I used a bit more of it, smell so juicy. We'll see, though, in a few weeks after it's all settled and blended.

  18. #18

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Hi,

    I am new to the forum, doing natural cosmetics since a decade and now creating my 100% natural perfume brand. I would like to know if any of you has ever tried glycerin plant extracts? I am doing my perfumes in a non traditional way using glycerin extracts from mushrooms, seaweed and fruits to provide with complementary naturals scents unavailable in the form of essential oils, CO2 or absolute. Because I prefer oily solutions up to 50%, I find that the small % of glycerin is perfectly ok. The perfumes are not meant to do a big sillage, more to be close to the skin and they last for a day and are less harsh on the skin for allergic people. I also add my own tinctures as I use indigenous plants and fruits, including indigenous carrier oils that all combine to create the fragrance. My perfumes are cloudy and I do not intend to have them transparent, one has to shake the bottle before applying to realize the emulsion and they are hstoring well for a year which is sufficient as I make them fresh but I am working now on packaging and new website. Would be glad to get your experience in pros and cons and thanks for all the information provided on basenotes.

    (sorry I replied to the wrong link before, just getting used to basenotes)
    Last edited by lpp; 24th March 2014 at 09:58 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    So, We all say: "Don't Use Glycerin in any Perfume". However I have no clue about glycerin based extracts.

    I'm not quite sure how to interpret that comment, "they... are less harsh on the skin for allergic people."

    Allergies come in many shapes and sizes, and using all natural ingredients is actually the opposite to me of what it seems like you are trying to do... The more the molecules, the more chance of allergic reactions. Natural have more molecules that synthetics, and there seems to have the assumption that synthetics are bad/evil, and naturals are good and sweet. This is not accurate in either case.

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  20. #20

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Yes sure I didn't express it right. Allergies can be induced by natural products due to the amount of allergens which to some extent can be monitored and limited by the very small amounts used and by getting information on the specific allergy terrain of the person using. What I meant is less alcohol is better tolerated for people with sensitive skin or asthmatics who react to high levels of alcohol.
    I am a phytotherapist as well so quite aware of the healing and poisoning potential of essential oils and extracts. However, although I limit to the maximum the use of essential oils in my cosmetic range in favor of beneficial carrier oil, for the perfume (which as roll on oil based) I cannot follow IFRA regulations as it wouldn't be perfumes at all.
    NadiaZ

  21. #21

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Dear Mr. Chris Bartlett,
    Could you please give me an advice or correct my formulas in making perfume
    100 ml perfume bottle:

    70% ethanol (95) {medical}
    20% essential oil
    5% distilled water
    2% propylene glycol
    2% benzyl benzoate
    1% glycerin

    what are the accurate percentage of benzyl benzoate and propylene glycol according the essential oil
    if its better to omit glycerin ... and add any other material such as coumarin or ...

    looking forward to hearing from you

    Regards,
    Last edited by Maher_AlKhouja; 28th September 2014 at 01:39 PM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    I suggest you read the stickies first. All this information you require from Chris is written in them already.

  23. #23

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    where are the (stickies) pages please?
    thanx alot for your kind reply

    ohh ..OK just reading them
    Last edited by Maher_AlKhouja; 28th September 2014 at 02:32 PM.

  24. #24

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Dear Chris and Mumsy,

    I've read the stickies , found that using glycerin is not good
    but what about other materials and their ratios to 20 ml essential oil

    100 ml bottle :

    70% ethanol (95) {medical} [or 75% if I don't use distilled water]
    20% essential oil
    5% distilled water [or not]
    3% propylene glycol [what about this ratio]
    2% benzyl benzoate [what about this ratio]

    what are the accurate ratios of benzyl benzoate and propylene glycol ?are they according the essential oil or the final product


    looking forward to hearing from you

    Regards,

  25. #25

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    I think that there are too many variables to answer you in such a direct fashion.

    I use perfumers alcohol and the perfume material only. Do you have a reason to want to use these other things? I suggest a lot of reading and typing in all your questions in the search box. There are many reasons to use other substances and you need to know why you are doing so.

    Type in each ingredient to the search box and research what the reason for using it is. There is no overall standard formula as such. Not that I'm aware of anyway.

  26. #26

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    There aren't particular required ratios of propylene glycol: indeed propylene glycol is usually not used.

    Nor is there a particular required ratio or amount of benzyl benzoate: rather, often is not used at all, and if it is used, the amount is decided specifically for a reason, or in some cases may be a consequence of its presence as a diluent of other materials, rather than from following a rule or general amount.

    For some reason, not specifically meaning you, seasplash, but in general, from new posters there seems far more concern than needed for ingredients such as those, and not nearly enough on the actual aroma materials! Very much majoring on the minors or even the unnecessary.
    Last edited by Bill Roberts; 28th September 2014 at 09:45 PM.

  27. #27

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Could be people are looking for magic formulae to make something good.
    If that's what you're after, just use a lot of Hedione and Iso E

  28. #28

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Lol... the real road to a good perfumer is called lots of study and hard work... for many years too....

    It is very easy to make a smell.... It is making a really good perfume that is so elusive.

    Just for all those interested in the magic wand approach...... 'pouf'...... the secret formula just vanished into thin air....!

  29. #29

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Quote Originally Posted by Maher_AlKhouja View Post
    Dear Chris and Mumsy,

    I've read the stickies , found that using glycerin is not good
    but what about other materials and their ratios to 20 ml essential oil

    100 ml bottle :

    70% ethanol (95) {medical} [or 75% if I don't use distilled water]
    20% essential oil
    5% distilled water [or not]
    3% propylene glycol [what about this ratio]
    2% benzyl benzoate [what about this ratio]

    what are the accurate ratios of benzyl benzoate and propylene glycol ?are they according the essential oil or the final product


    looking forward to hearing from you

    Regards,
    I remember propylene glycol being one of my first great mistakes, horrible, sticky, flattening and useless in a perfume. Why not try something not that ambitious at first and then test your limits? Why not limit the essential oils to 10% and raise the ethanol to 90% and do that in a small bottle, just to experiment? Sounds like basic, can be challenging. Forget the water, focus on the perfume, the water won't provide fixation or moisturize the skin, you are using essential oils and you are killing them, if you use water. If your experiment turns out good, then you can implement the benzyl benzoate or another fixative. With essential oils, hedione would be a good solution, as already said, essential oils can really use the lightness hedione has. At least I wish I had used it back in the day as I was using essential oils extensively. Or use 1% Glucam P-20. That would be 89% ethanol, 1 % Glucam P-20 and 10% essential oils, Glucam is also good to the skin. But that would come after the experiment. 20% aroma is heavy, I think, heavy on the nose, on the skin and on the pocket, not a very economical approach. In my humble opinion: a. simplify b. use less.

  30. #30

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    But I read about perfumers alchol and let's say it contains ethanol and other matirials
    such as fixative (like benzyle benzoate),and co-solvent (like propylen glycol)
    I read about these two materials(PG & BB) in many sites;
    that they are used for what I said above.

    Is it good to add only BB as fixatve ,and if so what's its good ratio to essential oil
    Finally,I know that the esiest way to blend perfume is to use
    Bothe good EO and alchol only
    But I wase wondering about using or adding other materials to
    To make the final blend better.

    Thank you all for your kind reply
    Last edited by Maher_AlKhouja; 29th September 2014 at 11:10 PM.

  31. #31

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    I recommend listening to who you choose to. Answers have been given here, and other statements have been made elsewhere. There's a choice to be made as to what source to accept. Some reasons have been given here already. You can also simply try both approaches yourself (with propylene glycol and without) and see what happens.

  32. #32

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    The only way to learn is to do it…. try with what you have and subject all our comments to personal experimentation and see. There is no particular right or wrong way, just your own personal best way.

  33. #33

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    There are ways, though, that will have about 100% of people trying one's product saying it's not as good, or is not good at all. If making entirely for oneself though that may not matter.

    Although, often when others point out what they experience as flaws in a formulation, it becomes a learning experience and after the learning, one may get more enjoyment from the redone material than from the old.

  34. #34

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Maher, we get a lot of people coming to us with previously "learned" knowledge. We have to beat it out of people for them to make better perfumes than whatever the heck they've learned in the past, from what we consider extremely questionable and ill-informed sources.

    Do what you want. We're not going to stop you or yell at you. But if you ask a question with bad previous information, expect to get contrarian information that YOU must filter and use appropriately.

    Your path of discovery is your own, not mine. Please, make as many mistakes as possible, to learn as much as possible.

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  35. #35

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Sage advice, Paul, but why can't people understand that the ONLY solvent that should be used is ethanol? And adding water, glycerine and all sorts of other things is a complete waste of effort?

  36. #36

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Thank you all for your kind advice,
    I've already made some samples and let them rest about 20 days 10 in the freezer and 10 in the wardrobe
    1 2 3
    EO 20% 20% 20%
    BB 3% 2% 1%
    Glycerin 1.5% 1% 1%
    PG 1% 2% 1%
    water 5% 5% 5%
    Ethanol 95 69.5% 70% 72%

    all of these samples was good in both colour and sent as well
    but sample 1 lasts the longest then 2 then 3 on paper

    I'll do my best to do so and so with and without fixatives and co-solvents
    I appreciate your cooperation ,nice discussion and notes

    looking forward to hearing from you,

  37. #37

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Thank you all for your kind advice,
    I've already made some samples and let them rest about 20 days 10 in the freezer and 10 in the wardrobe
    Samples ratio:
    S1:
    EO 20 _ BB 3 _ Glycerin 1.5 _ PG 1 _ Water 5 _ Ethanol(95) 69.5
    S2:
    EO 20 _ BB 2 _ Glycerin 1 _ PG 2 _ Water 5 _ Ethanol(95) 70
    S3:
    EO 20 _ BB 1 _ Glycerin 1 _ PG 1 _ Water 5 _ Ethanol(95) 72

    all of these samples was good in both colour and sent as well
    but sample 1 lasts the longest then 2 then 3 on paper

    I'll do my best to do so and so with and without fixatives and co-solvents
    I appreciate your cooperation ,nice discussion and notes

    looking forward to hearing from you,
    Last edited by Maher_AlKhouja; 30th September 2014 at 02:08 PM.

  38. #38

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Thank you indeed Mr. Paul

    That's why am here asking experts specialists like you and the other persons at this forum ;
    to get the right answers and good advice

    Really appreciate that and happy to hear from you all

    Regards,
    Maher

  39. #39

    Default Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    OK.......
    lets get it straight....
    making a perfume is like making a car.speed and strength of car is already been made by the company.
    now you are paying for a 800 cc and would like to improve you car speed like 5000 cc?
    if you want to do so you have to re as amble the whole car.if you have skill to do that.DO IT.
    and if you think that you are not that smart.then get some money and get another car like Ferrari.
    strenght of a perfume is all about the quality of perfume oil.if perfume oil is made by an expert of mixing and blending then
    you ll have strenght silage and diffusion at the same time as its not possible for a kid who still have spots
    and if you would like to get all these things is just becose you add somthing like DPG IPM and BB then you are trying to convert you 800 cc car
    into 5000 cc

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