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  1. #1

    Default Joy - baccarat bottle and concentration question.

    Can anyone tell me what is the likely concentration of the baccarat bottle with just 'Joy - Jean Patou - Paris' on the label, but nothing else.The label is gold.

    What I'm wondering is when the bottles marked Eau de Joy, Joy EDP, and Joy EDT were made. I gather the Eau de Joy goes back some way, but they are usually in fairly uninspiring bottles with a simple gold screw cap. The one that interests me is the baccarat bottle that is the forerunner of the current bottle, but in splash rather than spray.

    I purchased a bottle without a box and no photos of the bottle other than a front view. Could it be pure parfum or were other concentrations available in splash baccarat? Being splash, does that ensure that it's vintage?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Joy - baccarat bottle and concentration question.

    That sounds like the parfum extrait. I had 1000 parfum in that bottle. It came in a suede box.

    I'm not all that knowledgeable about dating the various bottles.

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Joy - baccarat bottle and concentration question.

    The only two bottles of parfum I've ever seen are shown in this pic. The boxes are next to the bottles.
    http://www.cagetti.com/Pictures/wickernorth.JPG

    But I don't know much about alternative bottles or other concentrations.

    cacio

  4. #4

    Default Re: Joy - baccarat bottle and concentration question.

    If it's stoppered it's pure parfum. If the label is baked on 22K gold, it dates after 1981. If the label is peel off, it can be as old as 1949. The stoppered bottles for Joy & Mille were made by Brosse, not Baccarat. Baccarat did do special editions for Joy--the faceted one that was the original design for LASSO that was never used, and other special numbered editions. (the clear "flaconette" for instance) I think the classic Joy parfum bottle may have been made by baccarat under P&G Beaute Int'l--so if it is marked "Baccarat," and it's the classic shape, it could be as young as 2001. The bulk of them were made by Brosse. If it's glass stoppered, it's parfum.


    (In the picture above, both are parfum. The one on the right is the original Joy bottle--inspired by Monsieur patou's collection of chinese snuff bottles--the one on the left is the classic joy presentation: 1949-recent. These were made by brosse. Not baccarat. they never contained anything but parfum)

    "Eau de Joy" was the precurser to Joy Edt & Edp--it is an edp strength. It was the first time joy was diluted, as for the first 15 years of it's life, joy was only available as an extract, in that black bottle. same with 1000: for the first 5 years of it's life, it also only came as an extract. 1000 has a similar flaconette--like the black one--except it is jade green. There was meant to be one for sublime as well--which was originally colour coded in violet & jade green (colour code later used for short lived "Patou Forever" This flaconette was made of amathyst slag glass with the coral cap--it was scrapped when they switched the name of sublime from "Declic" and changed the color code to "Imperial Yellow" as they called it. A prototype was made of the flaconette in this yellow with a lapis blue cap but it was just too ugly and never produced.
    Last edited by le mouchoir de monsieur; 2nd November 2012 at 04:57 PM.
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  5. #5

    Default Re: Joy - baccarat bottle and concentration question.

    Thank you so much for this invaluable information. I am now quite excited by my purchase and have so much more to go on to judge what it is I have bought.

    My bottle is just like that pictured in Cacio's photo, the classic bottle. I followed the seller's terminology in referring to the Baccarat bottle. It is probably not, as you say, Baccarat at all, but Brosse.

    So Eau de Joy began life in the mid 1940s? The EDT and EDPs are therefore more modern still. I gather that any of the lesser strengths, other than pure parfum, don't show this on the label. I can only hope that my bottle is stoppered and that I have chanced upon a pure parfum strength.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Joy - baccarat bottle and concentration question.

    wish you luck, after my unluck with shalimar i would prefer spray bottles stoppered bottle if you did not ask the seller how it smels and if he sells vintage perfumes and has knowledge about it....i would be suspicious , they can easily put inside whatever they want
    and if you payed little money for it its suspicious! joy pure parfum i expect should go at high price?

    and one more thing i was doing the same as you did obsessing with the bottle, trying to date it etc

    anyone can tell some price range?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    The only two bottles of parfum I've ever seen are shown in this pic. The boxes are next to the bottles.
    http://www.cagetti.com/Pictures/wickernorth.JPG

    But I don't know much about alternative bottles or other concentrations.

    cacio
    pictures are worth thousand words!! thank you!!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Joy - baccarat bottle and concentration question.

    it is *never* a good idea to purchase vintage patou that is not sealed in box. "Real" patou (that is, before it was sold to P&G Beaute Int'l in 2001) never contained preservatives: Chemical preservatives were the advent of the Guerlain brothers--this is why Guerlains typically last forever, and even sometimes get better. If your Joy flacon is not sealed with it's bauderuche & gold wire at the stopper, it is most likely turned. On average, from the moment a bottle of (real) patou is opened, and the ergon gas leaks out, it has about a 1.5 to 3 year life expectancy--& when patou goes bad--it GOES BAD. (Joy smells like rotten vegetable drawer when it turns)
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Joy - baccarat bottle and concentration question.

    This was veeery helpful!, and i was thinking gurlains last long because have more resinous smell, and much less white flowers! But this makes sense if they put preservatives!!

    Pls can you tell us is the price one guide as well or there is no rule? I have a feeling every year vintage market gets more crowded and price is becoming quite relevant info?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Joy - baccarat bottle and concentration question.

    My bottle is quite legitimate, I feel. It is still sealed with the gold thread and shows no sign of evaporation.

    I have purchased it from a seller who specializes in vintage things and have bought from her before. I do not think it likely that this bottle of Joy is from a suspect source. She would have absolutely no interest in on-selling fake perfumes.

    Not only would it compromise her good name, but it would go through her customer base like a 'dose of salts'. Her things are generally very reasonably priced, since she is not a perfumista, nor does she appear to be greedy.

    Given my difficulty in assessing the likely contents of this bottle, I doubt she could possibly have known as much as those on this site who have made a long study or have a long personal experience of vintage perfume.

    I shall share my experience once the bottle arrives. I feel I have 'won' a little treasure here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I got my Joy today and it is indeed the stoppered bottle, pure parfum. I was a little surprised that the seller only featured one photograph in the ad, however, now having the bottle in my hand, I see there is nothing but the label and an acid etched circle on the bottom with 'bottle made in France' on it.

    I really got myself a treasure here. It's unmistakably the pure parfum, rich, deep and infinitely rosy. It is nothing like the relatively coarse current EDP formulation that I have. A drop or two lasts for hours, on my skin, which has developed a propensity for 'eating' perfumes.

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