Code of Conduct
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 60 of 106
  1. #1

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Who knows this fragrance, and in what formulation? There are so many formulations and reformulations around. I have only tried the parfum (I have no idea what vintage it was, but it was divine), and the eau de cologne that came in a bottle like this...



    ^^^That was a very aldehydic, orange blossomy, and civetty and somewhat incensy "eau". Blended in the USA.

    I remember my mother wearing the parfum when I was very young. It came in the round bottle with the colorful painting label. I suppose it must have been this one...



    I remember NOT liking it on her. I didn't understand why she would wear that. Years later, when I tried the parfum myself, I understood.

    Anyone have any experience or memories of Bal? What formulation do you like? I know our Le Mouchoir de Monsieur wears BaV. Anyone else here on BN?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    This is going to be an interesting one. Can't wait to read responses......
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  3. #3

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Me too! I hope we get some.


    ...............crickets............


    Well, things usually take time to warm up on FFB. A watched pot never boils...so see you later.
    Last edited by lilybelle; 3rd November 2012 at 04:39 PM.

  4. #4
    Basenotes Plus
    Genie Jeanie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    472
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Hi lilybelle!

    The only thing I can add to this is memories...

    Back in the early '70's my dear Dad gave me a bottle of Bal Versaille for Christmas. (similar to your second photo) At the time I had the influence of the hippie culture of Dupont Circle in D.C as my main influence & preferred to douse myself with the likes of Jovan musk oil. I just didn't "get it", so the bottle went back into the box & was placed in the back reaches of my closet shelf.

    Flash forward to 1980-something. Here I am several years & a couple of moves later, when I happened to overhear an office conversation. A male co-worker was having a conversation with a friend & made the comment that "Nothing smells better on a woman than Bal Versaille...". A light bulb went off! I think I've got that....somewhere! So the first thing I did when I got home that evening was to scour my boxes of stored items until it was found. Hallelujah!!!!!

    I will never forget opening that box. I was so afraid that the scent would be something I hated, or even worse, that it was ruined from years of storage. My fears were quickly dispelled with that first fragrant sniff. WOW! That was all I could say...repeatedly. I had found my new secret weapon! From that point on, it was reserved for only the greatest of adventures (or misadventures ), as I milked that bottle to the very last drop.

    Sadly, I've been disheartened by any subsequent attempts to replace my little jewel. The scent is now a mere shadow of it's former self. Perhaps a vintage search needs to follow. I could use a secret weapon or two these days!

  5. #5

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Genie Jeanie, I love that story! Did the co-worker ever smell your sillage? It's funny how we both had to grow older to appreciate it.

  6. #6
    Basenotes Plus
    knit at nite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    CA, Central Coast
    Posts
    4,737
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I came late to the Versailles Bal. I think the first time I sniffed it was the EDT and I was in my late 30"s. I only had a few Carons back then and I was amazed to find such a heady complex old school scent at ....Marshalls.
    A Scent Rescuer
    Every great perfume deserves a good home

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    8,569
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    There were a couple of threads in the past about it. I don't have a huge experience with BaV, but for what I've smelled and read, the edc, which is only vintage, is usually superior to the edt. The edc is darker, drier and more animalic. Relative to the parfum, it is less floral, and less intense, of course. For the edt, I own the current (ie US) inexpensive formulation: the top is nice warm ambery animalic, but then it turns immediately into powder on my skin, with the animalic aspect only coming out with extreme heat (like at the gym). Not good even for the cheap price it sells for. The edc can still be found relatively cheaply on ebay, so I'd go for that.

    cacio

  8. #8
    Basenotes Plus
    tdem1961's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Staten Island, NY
    Posts
    5,440
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Lilybelle I have the edt which is in the same round bottle with the lyre-shaped cap as the parfum. I bought it about seven or eight years ago (at Burlington Coat Factory, of all places!) I love the soft orange blossom, gentle spice, and nag champa incense. And the wallop of skank.
    "I felt something so intense, I could only express it in a perfume." - Jacques Guerlain

  9. #9
    Guerlainista
    rubegon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    War of the Roses
    Posts
    2,185
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    No, LB! Don't do it!!! This is a conversation better had in private. The market is already too dynamic! This is just going to bring the tourists in droves, and they'll hate it anyway!

    Aah, what the hell.

    The vintage parfum, in the matte yellow box (not the reflective gold one) is the version of the p that I have. It's only wearable under certain conditions, but it is absolutely unique. Ultra dense, intensely animalic with a gorgeous urine note in a lovely haze of crotch funk. The florals are huge and symphonic - a rich, velvety mass that it's impossible to pick notes out of, because they're all in there, in their natural cacophonous complexity.

    Beautiful, nasty, enormous - this is the smell of an incontinent goddess's taint when she's in full lubricious heat. Use with caution.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  10. #10
    Basenotes Plus
    knit at nite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    CA, Central Coast
    Posts
    4,737
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    The smell of an incontinent goddess's taint when she's in full lubricious heat. Use with caution.
    What a fab turn of phrase, ruben.
    A Scent Rescuer
    Every great perfume deserves a good home

  11. #11
    Basenotes Plus
    Genie Jeanie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    472
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by lilybelle View Post
    Genie Jeanie, I love that story! Did the co-worker ever smell your sillage? It's funny how we both had to grow older to appreciate it.
    I hope that particular man never noticed, lilybelle. He was a notorious "sillage sniffer" & I preferred to keep him out of my wake!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    Ultra dense, intensely animalic with a gorgeous urine note in a lovely haze of crotch funk. The florals are huge and symphonic - a rich, velvety mass that it's impossible to pick notes out of, because they're all in there, in their natural cacophonous complexity.

    Beautiful, nasty, enormous - this is the smell of an incontinent goddess's taint when she's in full lubricious heat. Use with caution.
    Oh no! Is that why I got so much attention when I wore this?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    here is one of the things that I hope to figure out on this thread. Certain readers know that no single vintage of BaV is foreign to me. I can dissect each one and point out the difference. The one thing I will say straight away is this: Don't ever buy BaV if it is in a Gold Metallic Box with medallion on. This is the cheap Genisis International of Florida version. It is so horrific that it almost must be put in a biohazard waste bin: Not only does it reek, but it is impossible to get off. It won't wash off, alcohol off, or come off. If you get this on your skin, you will smell it a week later. Quite seriously, it smells like wet dog in heat. It's disgusting. On the other hand, BaV as interpreted by Jean Desprez and made in France is one of the most legendary and beautifully constructed perfumes in the world. Under it's original ownership, it underwent two reformulations: The first, because it was determined to be poisonous, the second because of jasmine supplies from the near east that dried up and were no longer available. In my opinion, it is the first issue, the poisonous one, that is the only one I wear, and I BATHE in it. One of the intricacies of BaV is that each concentration is a different scent. They are designed to be layered and worn according to circumstance. Here is my very scientific review from Frag for those who haven't seen it:

    Attempting to decipher "Bal a Versailles" today presents the same level of complexity inherent in a discussion concerning the ramifications of Biblical translations and all of the different implications and consequences these have had over the last centuries. To begin, nobody knows what fresh BAV would have smelled like were it made, unstoppered and used in the early sixties, at the time of its advent. It is true that, following the classic standards of Haute Parfumerie, the original three concentrations that were initially made exhibited a trio of scents, each one different, and designed to sublimate the other two; thus, Jean Desprez himself would have instructed the wearer to splash on the Eau de Cologne with abandon, all over the body, perhaps even using it as an hair tonic. After a time, the Parfum de Toilette would be applied more sparingly, but liberally, on exposed parts of the body: The shoulders, neck, calves and decolletage. Finally, the Parfum, clearly conceived to be dabbed very sparingly on specific pulse points. Considering the nature of the composition, these would have been the temples, the base of the neck, the crux of the arm, or "saignee" as the French would call it, the wrists, the backs of the knees, and the ankles. It is my own judgement that BAV is one of the rare scents that truly does benefit from an application by hand, and not by atomizer: To atomize the parfum, for example, automatically distorts it. Remember: At the time of its launch, not one of these concentrations was offered in a vaporizer. The EDC could be then poured on, or applied with a sea sponge, as was often done with this type of "Eau," (The first issue of this was called merely "Eau Bal a Versailles.") The Parfum de Toilette, in its lyre shaped flacon, could be "dabbed," eventually decanted into an atomizer and sprayed, but was most likely intended to be applied by stopper or fingertip. The original packaging of this concentration was clearly marked with the words: "A Fragrance to Compliment Bal a Versailles Parfum." Finally, the Parfum itself, was very obviously one intended to be slapped on by fingertip with force, to awaken the veins, and to push the molecules of it into the skin. As is rarely, if ever seen today, each one of these scents is vastly different. The EDC is a light, rosey musk and incense affair, surely the most wearbale by today's standards, the PDT is a rich, heady symphony of smoke and resin, this one clearly the most "dated" of the three, heavy with the "Old Lady" connotations with which all of our modern noses are equipped, and finally, the Majestic Parfum, which is a symbiosis of so many elements that it defies any specific analysis in very much the same way many of the Classic Caron scents do. At the time of its advent, Bal a Versailles was the first commercial perfume of the Twentieth Century to out price "Joy," which previously truly had been "the Costliest Perfume in the World."
    The vintage juices available to us today have all taken on a very noticeaebly deeper, darker texture than was originally intended. There is no discussing this, as no perfume, of any concentration, will not loose a bit of its flight beginning in the fifth year of its age, and progressing onward, to grow ever more bleak. There was a moment in time when the House of Jean Desprez, still in the hands of its founders, did itself re-formulate this composition, as it was discovered sometime around the mid to late Seventies that certain ingredients it contained were indeed toxic to the human body in the concentrations originally presented. This re-formulation was once again re-enacted in the mid Eighties, Jean Desprez still purely a French perfumer, for other reasons, these having to do with the increasing costs and outright disappearance of some of its second version components. This leaves us with seven French versions of this famed scent, all of which were of top quality, with no expense spared to maintain the integrity of the original vision of Jean Desprez himself, who was a very talented, if slightly eccentric perfumer, born into a famed Grassois family, the Millots. It is said that Jean Desprez's first composition made commercially available was F. Millot's "Crepe de Chine." The singular qualities of Bal a Versailles translate a desire to compose a kind of "Perfume to end all Perfumes." Monsieur Desprez's other fragrant orchestrations, "Jadanel," "Etourdissant," "Votre Main," "Escaramouche," all resemble one another in that they are truly epic in proportion. Even Monsieur Desprez's "Sport Fragrance," the shared and puzzlingly named "40 Love," (When pronounced in French sounds deceivingly like "Quarante Neuf," (49) or, alternately, "Quarante l'oeuf" (40 Egg) is an exotic and slightly intoxicating take on "Fresh." The very name "Jean Desprez" itself was a "nom de plume," adopted from the famous French legend of a valiant soldier of France who met a particularly gruesome end, courageously Martyred to the Glory, and Omnipotence of France. We can assume that when the rights to the House of Jean Desprez were sold to an American company in 2002, one "Genesis International," based in Florida, the entirely re-constructed scent that was re-launched shortly there after was based on the written formulations which were included in the sale, and preserved samples of all of the original juices, all of which, regardless of how well they had been preserved, would have darkened and lost a bit of their rosy flight as described above. This explains the dark, musky and resinous character that emerges immediately upon application and never fades when analyzing this American "re-do," which most certainly is a more potent, daring, and "dirty" fragrance than Monsieur Desprez ever intended, yet retains a good amount of the endless depth that was the hallmark of this legendary fragrance. Very recently, Genesis International has unloaded "Jean Desprez" onto yet another American firm, this time based in the hills South of Los Angeles in California, which company now owns all of the rights to the name, the scent, the trademark packaging, and proudly calls itself "Jean Desprez Paris." There is presently yet another perfume that has been created by this firm baring the name "Bal a Versailles" yet to be made available commercially, that can be purchased online directly from this firm, which apparently is still in "Alpha Testing Mode," offering generous discounts, free samples, and $90.00 30ml bottles of perfume to those willing to test it out and return the favour by commenting publicly on it in forums such as Basenotes and Fragrantica. (This firm may be contacted through its Basenotes user name, "Jean Desprez Paris.") The saga, then, continues. One thing, and one thing only, is certain when it comes to "Bal a Versailles," a detail which must be computed and not taken lightly when reading all of the reviews and opinions expressed by bloggers and fragrance commentators: There is, nor has there ever been, just one "Bal a Versailles." In the very year of its creation, there were three. Add to that eight more which emerged under the auspices of the original house, which ultimately added an "Eau de Toilette" concentration to the mix, then the further two made available by Genesis International, Parfum and Eau de Toilette. This makes for thirteen different fragrances, all of which harken the spirit of the original, though none, including the remnants of the original itself, all now between 52 and 40 years old, translate the true identity of this scent, which by any judgement had to have been a masterwork to have produced a legend that has remained intact and lasted all of these years and through all of these incarnations. The original slogan for "Bal a Versailles" at the time of its launch ran thus: "Pour un certain genre de femme." (For a certain kind of woman) Today, we can only wonder specifically what "genre" of woman Jean Desprez himself had in mind. The only summation we can make at this point in time is that she was, and is, not just any woman, for in all of its facets, "Bal a versailles" was never once "Classic," nor did it pretend to be. To this day it exudes the aura of very fierce independence, and a veritable slap in the face to the very notions of Perfumery, clearly conceived to entrance those who find a kind of perverted pleasure in the stinging titillations of pain, which, by nature, are very close to those of pleasure.


    I can write more--as the above does not begin to tell the whole story. What I am most interested in reading are other's viewpoints. Here are some ways to distinguish the various vintages:

    Parfum: bottle design was originally different than the one we all know. There are hardly any left of the original bottle: It was a kind of urn. The one we know today is maintained and has been exploited by Genesis--which produced an hideous version of it with a plastic stopper. This bottle always had a ground glass stopper. If you have a bottle, and the stopper part that inserts into the neck is plastic, it is Genesis: So it, in essence, is *not* BaV. Genesis maintained the "smelling salts" screw cap version identical to the later versions of the original, the earlier versions had a bulls eye shape on the back. If the box is WRAPPED, it is pre-1980. If the box is sunflower yellow, it is post 1980, and is thus the *second* french reform. This reform became very soapy and smells of nag champa incense.

    Eau BaV: (White box) these are the OLDEST of the BaV "Eaux."

    Eau de Cologne BaV (white box) these are the original and the first reform.

    Huile de Bain: This was only made up to 1975. It resembles the mysterious "Parfum de Jour" which was yet another BaV incarnation which must have been terrifically expensive, and produced for only a short while. I have ONE 30ml bottle of it: the box it comes in alone is worth a fortune--the bottle is exquisite. It is BaV, minus the musk, so it smells very clean.

    Parfum de Toilette: this was always presented in a lyre-shaped bottle with marble stopper. It was *not* carried over to the second French reform, and *not* carried over to Genesis.

    Eau de Toilette: If this is in a sunflower yellow box, it is the second french reform, and is very soapy and nag-champa-esque. If it is in a gold box, it is the revolting american version to be avoided at all costs.

    I can elaborate more--but this is it in a nutshell: Those attempting to review BaV should be aware of precisely what vintage they have: The differences are so vast that it is almost as if they are different fragrances entirely.
    Last edited by le mouchoir de monsieur; 3rd November 2012 at 10:11 PM.
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  13. #13
    Guerlainista
    rubegon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    War of the Roses
    Posts
    2,185
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by knit at nite View Post
    What a fab turn of phrase, ruben.
    Thank you, Knit! As you know, I studied dirty perfume talking with the master of the art.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  14. #14

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    and who might that be, Rube?

    What I want to know is this: Ladies and gents, hold on to your wigs and hats: Here is my daily BaV diet. Keep in mind I *only* touch the first, poisonous version. Like my cigarettes, I prefer the lethal additives intact.

    BaV EdC: I spray my whole body with this, head to foot. It's too dense to splash on, so I decant my square bottles into sterile glass atomizers.
    BaV PdT: I spray about six pumps of this. Neck, chest, behind my head, wrists. Also, I decant this.
    BaV P: I spray ONE spray of this into my beard, and one on each wrist.

    Mid-day touch up: I typically touch up around 4pm. I either use the bath oil in my beard and mustache, or else I dab on the parfum--wrists and neck.

    I know this sounds OUTRAGEOUS. As it stands, I *simply* cannot get enough of it. I *ADORE* it. It has been complimented *only* by men, which is fascinating--and most specifically--French men. The closest I have come to compliments by women are: "You smell good," which I interpret to mean: "What the fuck do you have on?" Another female friend of mine refers to it as "That weird perfume." As I take particular delight in fumigating my environs, as I live in a city that stinks and where nobody wears perfume at all, I feel as though it is my responsability to carry the tricolor like Marianne in "Le Radeau de la Meduse." I *know* I smell arresting. However: I also *know* it smells divine. To most--it smells "weird." If I want to get laid, one spritz of Etat Libre d'Orange "Rien" performs that miracle *EVERY TIME." (never one exception) As this is not a recurrent desire, I have one bottle of this and feel that it may last the rest of my life. On the other hand, I have a ROOM full of BaV, in all concentrations. I *only* wear this from September to March. From mid March to September 15th, I wear vintage Jicky or Mouchoir de Monsieur. The thing about me is this: I *will not* wear a perfume unless it smells like genitals. For me, there is no other way. Civet takes a MASTER perfumer to handle. It is only in Jicky, MdM, and BaV (also: vintage Joy, of course!) that I have ever witnessed a detectable civet note be alluring, and not repulsive. I've simply no interest in smelling fresh. It's just not me.

    The question I have for all of you is this: Am I out of line to the point that I might consider some form of rehab? (In spring & summer I sponge-soak in Jicky EdT, then bump it with Jicky Pdt, then bump that with Jicky p: One liter of Jicky p = about 1/8 ounce of BaV p as far as longevity and quantity of use. To get *anything* out of Jicky, one must marinate in it. BaV--different story. Difference: True perfume (BaV) vs. Junk (Current Jicky any thing)
    Last edited by le mouchoir de monsieur; 4th November 2012 at 12:10 AM.
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  15. #15
    Guerlainista
    rubegon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    War of the Roses
    Posts
    2,185
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    You know it's you - why do you even ask?

    Credit where credit is due - the current Jicky EdP is damn good. I bought a 500ml bee of it on my last trip to Paris (and then chewed my nails nervously the entire flight hoping that I packed it securely enough to survive handling by the gorillas that they have throwing the bags around in the bowels of the airports). Aphrodite prefers it to the PdT. I went to a lot of trouble to find some of the vintage juice and I love it, but it's a bit too tiger ass prominent for her nose. I need to acclimate her to it by layering with the modern.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  16. #16

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Civet smelled delectable in Joy parfum back in the day, too.

    Allf of that information is extremely helpful and informative, MdM. I doubt anybody on BN would think you require an intervention. We are enablers here.

    Knit and Tdem, do your bottles smell of Nag Champa?

    I'm trying to acquire some original edc. I have a feeling that is the version for me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Rube, you are funny!

  17. #17

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Hmmmm. Speaking of Dirty and Enabling, I was just entirely engrossed in those Tori Amos videos on Vive Les Ringardes!......After all of these years......they still work! Indeed: A *very* detectable civet note in Joy: But this is Joy we're putting onto the platform here--the only perfume to ever be awarded a "Perfume of the Century" title formally--also, one created by Henri Almeras. If a master perfumer ever there was, it was him. I'm afraid to break hearts here, yet I assert: The Guerlain Brothers were chemists. Jean Desprez was in reality Francois Millot II. We cannot put these people on the same platform, regardless of what opinions have to do in the discussion. Each occupies their own, special platform when we discuss these original creations, in their original forms: As it happens, Joy does not age well, any Guerlain vintage costs a fortune, so what we have left in the realm of Masterpieces of French Perfumery is Bal a Versailles. Any dyed in the wool French nose will agree to this: In many respects, I wear it because of this. As collectors, it works in our favour that so few can actually put up with the ferociousness of it, and that ascertaining the appropriate vintage and concentration is so very intricate. If any of you have read my novella review of BaV here on BN, I confess: This is based on a true story. How else might one become so inexplicably entranced by a perfume than being raped by it?
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  18. #18
    Guerlainista
    rubegon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    War of the Roses
    Posts
    2,185
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    That's still my favorite review on BN. I love it!

    And, no - you are not out of line. Even with that much EdC and PdT on BaV never seems toxically dense. It feels too natural to get to that point. Putting the parfum in your beard is a great idea! Suggests that that beard has been places ...
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  19. #19

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Oh, and it has!!!!!! ))))))))

    (sorry, people: Can not resist that one.)

    Thank you, Rube. Very glad to know you enjoyed it. Real time: 1984. Real Place: Paris Opera. Real Confession: Russian Orthodox Cathedral, Rue Daru. Identity or name of wearer: Never surmised. How I knew it was BaV: My Aunt made a signature of it.
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  20. #20
    Guerlainista
    rubegon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    War of the Roses
    Posts
    2,185
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Ahh, that's a shame. She is the one that got away! In another universe perhaps she is the mother of a few little Monsieurs? Then again she sounds like the type that routinely leaves spent bodies in her wake.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  21. #21
    Basenotes Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I was just writing a private message to you on Fragrantica when I found this thread which answered some of my (many) questions!

    I first tried BaV a couple of years ago. Got a sample of EdT - probably the Genesis version (though I can't remember) which left a very warm vanilla/powder scent that I liked. When that was done, I ordered another sample which was sharp and metallic and gave me a headache. So, I forgot about it.

    A couple of weeks ago, I suddenly wanted that warm BaV smell again. (Probably because my life sucks at the moment and I just wanted something to make me feel better.) But, remembering the horrible one, I started researching to find out why I had such different experiences. And I found your posts which were both informative and descriptive - thanks!

    I'm not at all knowledgeable about perfume. Wore Obsession when it first came out exclusively for several years (I guess I like that civet/vanilla/amber thing going on). Then had a brief Dolce Y Gabbana phase (the original - 1992) and that's pretty much it. (Sorry, boring, I know.) I probably thought I needed a "signature scent" from reading Colette when I was in my late teens. :-) I went back to Obsession after the D&G phase but it wasn't the same and I didn't like it anymore.

    After the perfume phase, I wore a lot of good-quality essential oils, but I haven't done that in a number of years either. So, with that little bit of history, hopefully you will forgive my ignorant questions!

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    Under it's original ownership, it underwent two reformulations: The first, because it was determined to be poisonous, the second because of jasmine supplies from the near east that dried up and were no longer available. In my opinion, it is the first issue, the poisonous one, that is the only one I wear, and I BATHE in it. One of the intricacies of BaV is that each concentration is a different scent. They are designed to be layered and worn according to circumstance.
    This was my first question: what is poisonous in that first formulation? Once you mentioned it, I had to know!

    There is, nor has there ever been, just one "Bal a Versailles." In the very year of its creation, there were three. Add to that eight more which emerged under the auspices of the original house, which ultimately added an "Eau de Toilette" concentration to the mix, then the further two made available by Genesis International, Parfum and Eau de Toilette. This makes for thirteen different fragrances, all of which harken the spirit of the original
    So, let me see if I have this right:
    3 original: Eau BaV, PdT, and Parfum
    70s reformulation: EdC, PdT, Parfum, and EdT
    80s reformulation: same above four
    First US reformulation (FL-based Genesis International): Parfum and EdT
    Did I understand that correctly?

    The reason I ask this is because I am attempting to figure out what to buy now and want to get as close to the original fragrance as I can, in its three manifestations.

    Regarding that, I have seen the original Eau BaV in the white box that you mentioned. I wondered if that would still be good, but from what I read in your post, I can assume it is. (?) And then the EdC in the white box is the 70s reformulation? Or still the original? Also, when I have looked at those, I have noticed they have a number on the side of the box. The Eau BaV that I've seen is No. 349. The EdCs seem to be Nos. 450 or 451. Are those numbers batch numbers? Do they let you know when they were produced? What about the blue boxes of EdC? Are those the second reformulation?

    Parfum: bottle design was originally different than the one we all know. There are hardly any left of the original bottle: It was a kind of urn. The one we know today is maintained and has been exploited by Genesis--which produced an hideous version of it with a plastic stopper. This bottle always had a ground glass stopper. If you have a bottle, and the stopper part that inserts into the neck is plastic, it is Genesis: So it, in essence, is *not* BaV. Genesis maintained the "smelling salts" screw cap version identical to the later versions of the original, the earlier versions had a bulls eye shape on the back. If the box is WRAPPED, it is pre-1980. If the box is sunflower yellow, it is post 1980, and is thus the *second* french reform. This reform became very soapy and smells of nag champa incense.
    OK, here goes a couple of ignorant questions:
    When you say that the earlier Parfum versions have a bulls eye shape on the back, do you mean that is the original formulation? Or was that only the urn shaped bottle? And what does it mean when you say the box is "wrapped?" Was the urn the original and is the glass stopper version the first reformulation?

    Huile de Bain: This was only made up to 1975. It resembles the mysterious "Parfum de Jour" which was yet another BaV incarnation which must have been terrifically expensive, and produced for only a short while. I have ONE 30ml bottle of it: the box it comes in alone is worth a fortune--the bottle is exquisite. It is BaV, minus the musk, so it smells very clean.
    Thanks for that explanation! I saw the parfum de jour on ebay and wondered what it was.

    Parfum de Toilette: this was always presented in a lyre-shaped bottle with marble stopper. It was *not* carried over to the second French reform, and *not* carried over to Genesis.
    How do you tell the original formulation from the first reformulation in the PdT?

    Eau de Toilette: If this is in a sunflower yellow box, it is the second french reform, and is very soapy and nag-champa-esque. If it is in a gold box, it is the revolting american version to be avoided at all costs.
    OK, I am having trouble knowing what is sunflower yellow as opposed to gold as opposed to a light cream shade of yellow that I've also seen on ebay. Any pics or links for those so I can see the difference? For instance, which color/formulation is this parfum: http://www.ebay.com/itm/160892854887...4.m1423.l2649? From your comments, I would guess the second French reformulation? And that is the one that smells soapy? And, if that is the case and this parfum is $350, then what price could be expected for the original or first reformulation? (I almost hate to ask that question!)

    OK, I think that covers all my questions ..... for now. I hope you take pity on me and help me learn more about this fragrance! Thanks again for your marvelous posts!

  22. #22

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    That perfume bottle is the second version. So, in essence, it somewhat is "the old formulation" as the e-bay listing suggests. I *would not* pay that price for that bottle. It's all very intricate. I suspect I've just developed an eye for these things. The numbers on the sides of the boxes are SIZE numbers. That is the old way perfumers defined their sizes: No351, etc. A bit like a "sku" today. When I say the box is WRAPPED I mean it is wrapped up in matte paper, like a gift, and there is a yellow silk twist cord around. I bought that "Parfum de Jour" that you saw on e-bay and I am so enamored with it that I am gnashing my teeth to think that a mere 30ml must now last until eternity: I thought I had/knew all things Jean Desprez. That, I had never seen, nor did I know the existence of it. The plot here is thick. In essence, Jean Desprez had an interesting concept: He offered many fragrances, except they were all called "Bal a Versailles," a method illustrated by one of my Aunts who had four sons and called each one Robert. (This Aunt wore Joy, not BaV.) Another VERY annoying detail about the Lyre shaped parfum de toilette flacons to be had on e-bay: Many are dummies! (I have discovered this the hard way) (a "dummy" is a display bottle filled with coloured water.) I would say: Go for one of the white boxed EdC's and see if you like it: Then graduate. The ones that are called merely "Eau" I have smelled and find them to be identical to the ones that are called EdC. As for the poison: Who knows? There are 450+ essences in the BaV formula. Considering these essences, that implies that there are perhaps 600 to 1000 ingredients in each juice: When juggling such quantities, there's bound to be something poisonous in there. Whatever it was--it *permitted* the result to be divine beyond belief. I *truly* prefer the older version: It just has that *something* that's a bit like petrol that the others lack: Personally, I am unconcerned about how poisonous my perfume is: Actually, I'm rather pleased to know that it's poisonous. My advice: Start with the white boxed EdC and see.

    - - - Updated - - -

    here's a 100% safe bet if you want the parfum:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEALED-BAL-A-VERSAILLES-by-JEAN-DESPREZ-Flacon-Sac-in-Box-15-ml-0-5-Oz-FRANCE-/290788641857?pt=fragrance&hash=item43b45a8c41
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  23. #23
    Basenotes Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    That perfume bottle is the second version. So, in essence, it somewhat is "the old formulation" as the e-bay listing suggests. I *would not* pay that price for that bottle.
    Thanks!
    The numbers on the sides of the boxes are SIZE numbers. That is the old way perfumers defined their sizes: No351, etc. A bit like a "sku" today.
    Ah. Makes sense!
    When I say the box is WRAPPED I mean it is wrapped up in matte paper, like a gift, and there is a yellow silk twist cord around.
    OK. Got it. I hadn't seen any like that on ebay. Is the link below an example of "wrapped?"
    I bought that "Parfum de Jour" that you saw on e-bay and I am so enamored with it that I am gnashing my teeth to think that a mere 30ml must now last until eternity: I thought I had/knew all things Jean Desprez. That, I had never seen, nor did I know the existence of it.
    I thought I saw two! But maybe it was just that one. I searched the net to see what that "de Jour" meant but couldn't find it.
    The plot here is thick. In essence, Jean Desprez had an interesting concept: He offered many fragrances, except they were all called "Bal a Versailles," a method illustrated by one of my Aunts who had four sons and called each one Robert. (This Aunt wore Joy, not BaV.)
    LOL Your family sounds very interesting! Good example though. I'm starting to understand the concept of BaV.
    Another VERY annoying detail about the Lyre shaped parfum de toilette flacons to be had on e-bay: Many are dummies! (I have discovered this the hard way) (a "dummy" is a display bottle filled with coloured water.)
    Oh great! lol I just bought one. Well, if it is a dummy, hopefully there is recourse! Now you have filled me with anxiety. ;-)
    I would say: Go for one of the white boxed EdC's and see if you like it: Then graduate.
    I did that too. Am waiting for its arrival. I'm pretty sure I'm going to like it.
    The ones that are called merely "Eau" I have smelled and find them to be identical to the ones that are called EdC.
    OK! Good to know! There are two on ebay right now and I was considering them because I thought they'd be different from the EdC.
    As for the poison: Who knows? There are 450+ essences in the BaV formula. Considering these essences, that implies that there are perhaps 600 to 1000 ingredients in each juice: When juggling such quantities, there's bound to be something poisonous in there. Whatever it was--it *permitted* the result to be divine beyond belief. I *truly* prefer the older version: It just has that *something* that's a bit like petrol that the others lack: Personally, I am unconcerned about how poisonous my perfume is: Actually, I'm rather pleased to know that it's poisonous.
    :-) OK, how about this: how did anyone find out there was a poisonous ingredient? lol Inquiring minds and all that ....
    My advice: Start with the white boxed EdC and see.
    I can be obsessive, so probably I've gone too far with wanting one of each. But ... worst case scenario .... I can always sell them if I hate them right? I don't think I'm going to hate them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    here's a 100% safe bet if you want the parfum:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEALED-BAL-A...item43b45a8c41
    Thanks! I saw that but didn't know what it meant ("flacon sac in box") and hadn't seen one boxed like that so didn't know what to think. I appreciate the advice!

  24. #24

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I have only tried the modern parfum and EDT, and I like both.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    8,569
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    MdM

    Thanks for the great explanation, extremely informative! Oh, what a marvel it must be to smell you thus anointed!

    From your explanation I gather I have one genesis edc (written on the box), one uncertain edc spray, an older edc (but unboxed, so it's probably lost some), and a gift packet (edc plus parfum mini plus body spray) that's in a yellow colored box and appears as made in france, without any genesis reference, so it's possibly late pre-genesis. Plus the inferior current edt mentioned in a previous post.

    Love civets in old perfumes ... Joy is a favorite too. What's your take on My sin? An eau de lanvin I have smells suitably civety.

    cacio

  26. #26
    Basenotes Plus
    tdem1961's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Staten Island, NY
    Posts
    5,440
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by lilybelle View Post
    Knit and Tdem, do your bottles smell of Nag Champa?
    Yes Lilybelle, mine does. Very much so.
    "I felt something so intense, I could only express it in a perfume." - Jacques Guerlain

  27. #27

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I was bidding on an edc last night, but I lost!!! I was so upset! I was bidding from my kindlefire and I couldn't register a bid as quickly as the other person. I lost by $3 -on an 8 oz bottle of edc. If that was anyone here, please don't tell me, lol!! I really hate these feeding frenzy bidding wars in which you only have seconds. Too stressful for me. So...maybe I will win some another time. Maybe not. It is good to know, at any rate, that there is still good old fashioned dirty smelling perfume out there.

  28. #28

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    8,569
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    BaV is very frequent on ebay, and the prices are very reasonable. So you'll get a chance soon. Bidding frenzies are bad ideas, one ends up paying more than one would otherwise.

    cacio

  29. #29

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    You're right, Cacio. Thanks!

  30. #30

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    It wasn't me, Ma Tante! I'm afraid starting this thread hasn't helped anyone interested in vintage BaV. I'm protected--as I've said: I have liters and liters and liters of every strength in the right vintages. I've *always* loved BaV: I started collecting it before i ever considered wearing it. I began to wear it back when I was trying to use it as a base to recreate Mouchoir de Monsieur parfum--of which I had at one point 60ml--and still have perhaps 15ml trapped in a ground glass stoppered bottle I can not get opened, no matter what--& I have tried *EVERYTHING.* you can't really use any BaV concentration as a blending base as it merely eats anything you put in it--including the best perfumer's grade essential oils--I *wasted* so many of mine in this experiment--documented in two of my threads--"the marriage of MdM" and "Jicky and MdM, Immersed" (or something) it was funny that Thierry Wasser HIMSELF commented on these threads publicly in an interview. I felt *very important.* That latest and final French BaV: Bright yellow box w/medallion on --is surreptiously mixed with the Genisis re-form: Some of these bright yellow boxes are actually Genisis--and say "Made in the USA w/oils imported from France" on them --yet they still aren't this abomination that is contained in the gold box version. Some people might like the Gold Boxed Version: It just *stinks* in my point of view--WAY too much synthetic civet in it--again: I feel this is what has tainted the reputation of BaV and explains the many reviews which suggest it's revolting. (revolting would be the word i would use for the gold-boxed version--gross is another word that comes to mind. If any readers TRULY want to smell like dirty underwear--and cat literbox--and--I don't know what--than that gold box is for you. No other perfume that I know of goes quite this far in that realm--and hasn't even the complexity of, say, SL "Muscs Kublai Kahn," --which has a lot of cumin in it-- so it smells like crotch AND armpit--and both are HAIRY.) The final french incarnation of BaV might be summed up as "Nag Champa Soap." if you LOVE Nag Champa Soap, look no further. Me--I Love soap. Mine just has to be more funky and less incensey--a bit like Jicky, which does have a soapiness about it--and so does Mouchoir de Monsieur. LB: Why not just buy a sealed in box BaV white-box EdC on a "Buy it now"? (I saw two of these last night--around $35.00) --or let me SEND YOU SOME?????????
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  31. #31

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    You're right about having started this thread, MdM. Rube said, "Noooooo!!!!" But I think we should talk about Bal on BN, even though we risk losing easy availability. It's just too remarkable. Maybe we should have kept it an insider secret. I don't know. Too late now. And your knowledge is so invaluable. I think it is good to have it here for someone who is really searching for Bal. I know how frustrating it can be to get information on something. I've noticed that prices on ebay will go up when the boards are talking about a fragrance, but only for a short while, as people will then move on to the next thing, leaving all the Bal or whatever it is to the die hards again. Mr. Wasser quoted you! How cool! Well, I did not see the buy it now one for $35. That seems like a fair price. I saw a buy it now one for $175, which was too high for me. But maybe that was a different formulation. It is so sweet of you to offer to send me some. I love you dearly for it. I may accept if the offer is still open and I have no luck on ebay. Thank you again! (I still WANT to win one!) I don't really like nag champa. I had some incense like that once and it was too much for me - very sweet, isn't it? It's been a long time, but yes I think I can remember that scent.

  32. #32
    Basenotes Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I agree. Interest will die down.
    But, this thread has been so valuable for me! I can't tell you how many hours I searched on the net for info like this. I really appreciate you guys - and all your help!
    Thank you!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Lilybelle: It's there. Search under "bal a versaille vintage." $34.95.

  33. #33

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    ma tante!!!!! Check your perso e-mail right now!!!!!!!
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  34. #34

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Ok.

    I bought it.
    Last edited by lilybelle; 4th November 2012 at 05:44 PM.

  35. #35
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    london
    Posts
    881
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by lilybelle View Post
    You're right about having started this thread, MdM. Rube said, "Noooooo!!!!" But I think we should talk about Bal on BN, even though we risk losing easy availability. It's just too remarkable. Maybe we should have kept it an insider secret. I don't know. Too late now. And your knowledge is so invaluable. I think it is good to have it here for someone who is really searching for Bal. I know how frustrating it can be to get information on something. I've noticed that prices on ebay will go up when the boards are talking about a fragrance, but only for a short while, as people will then move on to the next thing, leaving all the Bal or whatever it is to the die hards again. Mr. Wasser quoted you! How cool! Well, I did not see the buy it now one for $35. That seems like a fair price. I saw a buy it now one for $175, which was too high for me. But maybe that was a different formulation. It is so sweet of you to offer to send me some. I love you dearly for it. I may accept if the offer is still open and I have no luck on ebay. Thank you again! (I still WANT to win one!) I don't really like nag champa. I had some incense like that once and it was too much for me - very sweet, isn't it? It's been a long time, but yes I think I can remember that scent.
    Lily so nice that you mention this, i have noticed this on basenote its so very little info on vintage , when i asked about some price range noone wanted to share since i come from financial field, i understand people dont share info that make them money
    but here i would not expect so, after all its only perfume, not something where one will make fortune
    and i also agree with you, it will not afect prices in the longer term, because each listing on ebay is so different and vintage perfumes are not the only one....

    sometimes i feel that in general people who collect vintages dont use them at all, or use it so sparingly and they are there to be held upon rather then used and there will allways be those stuff in circulation, because obvioulsy all whats been produced in the past cant egt used up so quickly people just like hoarding a lot hehe

    i encourage every talk becasue when you talk you help us who are new not to buy bad stuff, or fakes!
    thank you all!!

  36. #36

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Here is another BaV review I ripped from Frag: Someone gave *me* a run for my money with this GEM. His name (on Frag) is Lanier and he is obviously a superb writer: I adore this review. I've read it perhaps 50 times and each time, I marvel:

    Rome January 1962, in the dark corners of the huge soundstage of Cinecitt Studios all eyes are on an extraordinary personage. The man is Welsh, and touted to be the new Olivier. With a good ten years of films behind him he has never really hit it big in the movies. Not like he has on the stage where he is considered a god. That is about to change.

    There is a small commotion in the shadows. He and everyone else on the set turn, and his eyes fall upon the luscious curves of the woman who has just unceremoniously sauntered into the pool of lights in the center of the stage. Sheathed in flowing canary yellow chiffon, her eyes of violet blue spangled with glitter and lined with black Egyptian kohl she is every inch a morsel for a monarch. Her eyes with veiled curiosity explore his handsome acne scarred face. She is not impressed and yet slightly apprehensive of his stage training. He takes in her dark glamour in and recalls being tuned to ice by her dismissive glance ten years earlier across a hot star encrusted swimming pool in smoggy Los Angeles. That was the first time Richard Burton laid eyes upon his destiny in the form of Elizabeth Taylor. This time in Rome was the second.

    The director, Joe Mankiewicz spoke briefly to both of them then went of to commiserate with the cinematographer and the assistant director leaving them awkwardly alone to make their own introductions. Burton turned and crookedly smiled to Elizabeth. He picked up a cup of coffee and spilled a little as his hand was seized by a hangover tremor. Instinctively she reached out and steadied the cup. Gently her hand cupped his and guided the coffee to his lips. His eyes fell into hers and locked there for eternity.

    “Has anyone ever told you that you are a very pretty girl?” He said.

    Her heart, imagination and life were changed forever by that simple clich that fell in perfect calculated grace from the lips of perhaps the greatest Shakespearian actor of his generation.

    And so it began the scandal of the 1962 which shattered two marriages, nearly toppled a studio and ushered in the cannibalistic tabloid world of today. It was the romance of the century and inspired a generation of sexual revolutionaries. Not to be left out of the action the Pope got in on the act and branded Elizabeth Taylor a “Sexual Vagrant”. Now THAT is a Movie Star!

    What did this shattering moment smell like? Bal Versailles is the answer. Many famous women from Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis to Queen Elizabeth have worn it, but none more famously than Elizabeth Taylor on the set of “Cleopatra” when she launched a thousand paparazzo’s in the arms of her Mark Antony.

    Created in 1962 by Jean Desprez Bal Versailles is traditionally presented as a female fragrance. Well that was back in the old days of the 1900’s, welcome to the 21st century were such gender identities for fragrance are down right pass. This magnificent perfume fully rounded out by 350 essences is a monster of audacious panache and a masterpiece of design fit for anyone with the balls to wear it. It is bold, and huge in its opening of rosemary, orange blossom, mandarin orange, cassia, jasmine, rose, Neroli, bergamot, Bulgarian rose and lemon. Heavy hitters are the roses and the orange notes. We move in for our close-up with notes of sandalwood, patchouli, lilac, orris root, vetiver, ylang-ylang, lily-of-the-valley and leather. The Leather dominates the heart of the fragrance. If you are a leather lover this is Oscar time at the Kodak Theater and Nicole Kidman has just called your name. When the dry down approaches it is a dramatic movie star fade out. Beautiful notes of tolu balsam, amber, musk, benzoin, civet, vanilla, cedar and resins hold court for the final long shot as Bal Versailles rides off into the sunset captivating all it has touched with its smoky fingers of desire and fire.

    Bal Versailles is a projection bomb. Once you have it on there is no going back. You commit to this one all the way or not at all. The silage is like incense burners pumping purple heaven full blast on Cleopatra’s barge. It lasts for days without the need for “retakes”. It is animalic, dirty, sexy and just a wonder of a scent that has me in its spell as surely as Elizabeth Taylor had Richard Burton just where she wanted him all those years ago in Rome, right in the palm of her hand.

    FIVE GOLD STARS *****


    This also makes *perfect* sense to me: Liz Taylor *would have been* wearing BaV while filming Cleopatra. I think it's an odd coincidence, too that Jackie Kennedy & I have precisely the same taste in perfume, as both of us make/made seasonal signatures of Jicky and BaV--I never knew this until I actually began researching the question in depth. I suppose I *get* that Michael Jackson wore BaV, and why......this said, for me, this is not a reference. HRM Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britain--this, to me, also makes sense: However--I happen to know that she *wore* this--and *does not wear it now.* (I have this from a very reliable source who knows her personally) Currently, she wears something from FLORIS. The Queen would *never* wear this disgusting Genesis Gold box american synthetic piss-in-a-bottle.......
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  37. #37

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I read that one, too, MdM! That is a great one, and I can see Liz Taylor in Bal at that time.

    Iivanita, it isn't that people who love vintage are reluctant to give out information because they are making money, but that they don't want a run on their supply. It will all blow over eventually, though. At any rate, surely there is enough out there for the people who actually do like Bal, and it isn't everyone's cup of tea, that's for sure.

  38. #38
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    london
    Posts
    881
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    hehehe the Queen has taste thats the only thing she needs afteral , has everything else.....

    so nice words for Bal A versailes......

    i think perfumes are going the same direction as nature is, getting less preaty, less stunning, and less natural! whereas technology is advancing.....this was like a surprise to me when i started looking at perfumes , people have more money now then they ever had before....yet even among most expencive stuff you cant get anything of the beatuy of some of those vintages.....i think ....what i am most owrried about is jasmine i learnt i love it so so much , but before smelling Sarrasins i only smelt CK Beauty hehe and liked it a lot, but ofcourse was not so crazy

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lilybelle View Post
    I read that one, too, MdM! That is a great one, and I can see Liz Taylor in Bal at that time.

    Iivanita, it isn't that people who love vintage are reluctant to give out information because they are making money, but that they don't want a run on their supply. It will all blow over eventually, though. At any rate, surely there is enough out there for the people who actually do like Bal, and it isn't everyone's cup of tea, that's for sure.
    hehe, they cant controll the price! believe me, i work with markets if something is supposed to go up it will no matter what its just matter of time....
    i understand reluctancy to talk about it, its human

    for instance that shalimar bottle form 80s i did not even know its real shalimar bottle so little info on it....

    but its good to be aware of this that people dont like to share info

    and basicly sellers of bad stuff are in advantage over us customers hehe.......its not like on buying new TV where you can go in the internet and look up for help and avoid bad stuff

    no intent to say bad about anyone! just was bit sad it works like this...its only perfume after all

  39. #39

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Iivanita...it's not "only perfume". Although I do understand your point because I could lose most of mine with no regrets. But some are not "only perfume"...they are our preeeeeeecioussssess.

  40. #40

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    yes, um....hehe. It's not only perfume and nothing as frivolous as perfume can be compared with a TV...hehe.
    Me, I say

    HA!

    a bit like Siouxsie, or the Origina Ha! Girl, Nancy Sinatra, according to circumstances.
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  41. #41
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    london
    Posts
    881
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    hehehehehe i knooooooooooooooooww )

    one has to be aware at every moment of obsessions i am like that too.....but i dont understand a man who owns 500ml of shalimar and still must buy some more ehehehehe and when asked a thing is so scared to share some info
    ook
    this is what ordinary people went against in the financial world, against bankers, they hoard too but money

    so at that moment this perfume community starts to resemble financial it makes me a bit sick in the stomackthats why i had wish to say this

    look at these bottles!
    i was searching all basenot fragrantica...noowhere i could find about this!! and its basicly like simple knowledge!

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/221146732764...84.m1438.l2649

  42. #42
    Guerlainista
    rubegon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    War of the Roses
    Posts
    2,185
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    When BaV EdC comes up for auction, I think about $30 for a 4oz bottle is a good price. If I'm looking for one, I'll bid up to that on NIB bottles until I get one. I have an 8oz and a couple of 4s now, so I'm good I think. I would like to have a 16 just because they would look so nice together. . I'll only do it if its a crazy bargain, though.

    If looking for the PdT, be careful. As MdM said, there are many dummies out there, and they are not labeled as such. Every unboxed PdT I've bought has turned out to be filled with colored water when I broke the seal. Buy lyres only in box!

    The 60ml sprays have all been good, but they are a bit harsher that the lyre flacons.

    I'm worried about that big one I swapped to you, MdM. Have you opened it? I'd hate to think I swapped you a pretty bottle full of colored water.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  43. #43

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    It's nothing to do with finance: It's to do with asking the wrong people. These are testers and they date around 1993. They're both perfectly legit.

    The Supremes made an attempt at "Ha!" once in that song that's starts out: (Diana) "He gave...me....the eye-iiiiii, and....I .....just" (something.)

    At first it came out like this: (Mary and Cindy): "HaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAA!!!!"

    Then, I think, when Diana gave them a quick, nervous look during the recording session, they tried AGAIN. This second time, it came out a bit like this:

    (Mary & Cindy): "Haaa."

    (Still not *quite* right.)

    So they never really did make into the Ha! Girls hall of fame. (they were in so many other Halls--I don't think they ever cared) Florence Welch is now a strong contender. She does an amzing HA! at the end of the piece on Ceremonials that says "You got Jesus on your right" and then goes on about how "This is His Body...." on that piece, she ends it with an Ha! that, by my take, is an appropriate choice for "Legendary Ha!" --Though, opinions do vary, Ha! being such an important, and heavily laden thing to say.......

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm not sure, Rube. Good question. I haven't opened it yet. The really outrageous thing is you can't get your money back on e-bay whe you challenge them with this. I paid $400.00 that ended up being a 4.5 ounce dummy. I wouldn't say "Most" of the unboxed lyres are dummies: I've gotten many that weren't--but in the bigger sizes, this problem seems to arise. I love those huge 16oz Bav EdC's: I have 3. I actually use these--that 16oz size gives you two whole seasons of wear, MdM style. I think I'm on the last 1/3 of my second one at this point. I wonder if that giant 9oz-er IS a dummy? I don't think it is--I don't want to open it until I get another one I have on it's way--a 4.0oz-er. I've "sort of" figured out how to tell if it's a dummy bu analyzing the nature of the juice as it behaves in the bottle. Water and perfume act differently IN the bottle--so if you think you got a dummy, return it BEFORE opening it bc the sellers say that "you could have poured out the perfume and filled it with tea." --which i suppose is true--My answer to one seller to that remark was: "And why ever would I take the time to do that, when taking the time to e-mail now is already taking too much of my time."
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  44. #44

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I have to find that Supremes song now, so I can hear the not quite right HA. I now have two bottles of BaV edc, a 2 oz. bottle that was "buy it now" and the 4 oz. bottle that I was bidding on, and NOBODY but me bid on it! Maybe everybody sleeps late on Sunday. Anyway, six ounces of BaV edc will be on their way to me shortly. That should keep me for a while, I suppose. Ha!

  45. #45
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    london
    Posts
    881
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Le MdM you are probably right!!

    thank you!!

    and Rubegone......did you return those things back? i recently got dummie too but i asked seller about the smell, so i returned it and expecting money back...

    now when i ask about the smell, sellers dont answer, is that usual way of doing business on vintage perfumes?...if its gone bad....if the bottle is unopened i understand why they cant say a thing, but if they can open it i dont understad why they dont comment on the smell?

  46. #46

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Some do comment, I've noticed, and some don't. The ones who don't probably don't want be held accountable if a buyer says it is off when the seller has said it smells good. One person's off might be another person's good, and when it's vintage it isn't going to smell like it was bottled last May. So they are covering themselves. There is always a risk when buying this vintage stuff on ebay. I am surprised you can't return the dummy ones.

  47. #47
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    london
    Posts
    881
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    L MdM!!!

    this is outrageous!!! i would never ever accept to pay 400 for a dummie!!! , if you have paypal you can revoke! this is i think the problem of vintage market....people are not tough on those sellers so they think they can get away with anything!

    ebay works on trust, doing business on ebay is like doing busniess in the shop , its just over the interent ,you cant sell fakes!....so you have all buyer protections at disposal and use it up to maximum

  48. #48
    Guerlainista
    rubegon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    War of the Roses
    Posts
    2,185
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I think that if they describe it or list it as a bottle of perfume, you have grounds to claim a refund. Some of these older bottles are listed as collectibles, or the sellers say that they don't know and don't guarantee the contents. Buyer beware in those cases. If you don't know your stuff you are taking a risk.

    i didn't ask for a refund on the dummies. They were sealed and then seller said he didn't know or make any claims about the quality of the contents.

    i think you're right MdM - the perfume is thinner than the colored water and "sticks" to the inside of the bottle less. Also, look at the colors of the picture on the label and the strip around the neck. If they are faded I won't bid.

    The Shalimar testers are real, but unboxed. If they've been sitting in full light on a shelf or counter for 20 years they will be crap. I tend not to buy vintage Shalimar that is unboxed anymore, as it doesn't handle exposure to light well. Shalimar without its top notes intact is vastly diminished.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lilybelle View Post
    I have to find that Supremes song now, so I can hear the not quite right HA. I now have two bottles of BaV edc, a 2 oz. bottle that was "buy it now" and the 4 oz. bottle that I was bidding on, and NOBODY but me bid on it! Maybe everybody sleeps late on Sunday. Anyway, six ounces of BaV edc will be on their way to me shortly. That should keep me for a while, I suppose. Ha!
    Congrats, LB! I saw that 4oz one and thought of you - figured you'd have your eye on it.

    Auctions that end in the evening usually get more bids, so an early end time or wee hours is usually less competitive.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  49. #49
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    london
    Posts
    881
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    thank you Rube, Lily, MdM

    all very nice advices for beginners!!.....i just hate it when people think they can even get away with selling coloured water for high money!thats outrageous!

    yes Rube...you are right about those bottles, just when you list blogs none shows those bottles just those typical ones, i bought one dummie like that but returned it!.....its sellers risk and responsibility to get item back if its not as it was presented, its like that with all oder stuff, so i just dont understand why would be any different with perfumes, smell is like colour red is red, some dont get all shades, but we all see red....and ignorant can tell whats perfume and smells nice and what has no smell and what is ugly , neutral and what is divine ....i would not think of smell any more subjective as of colour

  50. #50

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    Congrats, LB! I saw that 4oz one and thought of you - figured you'd have your eye on it.

    Auctions that end in the evening usually get more bids, so an early end time or wee hours is usually less competitive.
    Thank you! I'm being cool, but I'm more like... I can just see me sneaking out of bed at 3:00 a.m. to go do some bidding in the next room, trying not to let B-belle know. He sleeps with one eye open as it is. He doesn't really know the extent of my mania. Well, he pretends not to, anyway. Sunday afternoon is a good time for me.

  51. #51
    bogsc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    507
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    What a fabulous thread. BaV is one of my favorites and I have it in several formulations. Fortunately, I've managed to avoid the Genisis one. I haven't been as extravagant in my wearing of it as the wonderfully knowledgeable LMDM cause I don't have oodles of it but I'm fearless enough to wear it on the subway and in the office. I adore animalic perfumes! If it has civet or leather, I'm all over it.

  52. #52

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    LB I think the Supremes song where they make the attempt, don't get it right, then try again (and REALLY) don't get it right is.......I'm not good with titles. they go: aaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAA-AAAAAAH! then seconds later they go aaAH.

    It's one of the MAJOR CLASSICS--& it's an EARLY one--my sister & I used to dance to it--and we'd always do the arm thing when the aaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!.................. aaaah. would happen--it's a really dancey one.--the C & M do all this ooooohhhhhhh! oooooh! as well repaetedly while D keeps the magic pouring out. I just remember the first opening bar has Di beaming: "He gave. Me. the ere--iiiiiiii.....and I just asked him why........and he did not seem to caaaa-aaaa-aaare....then (something) there....(or something)

    You danced to it too-- it's one of those "you must dance" supremes songs....I know there are so many---but this a BIG ONE.
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  53. #53

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I'm going to go look for that song, and then I'm going to post it here.

    Hey, Bogsc! I'll bet you smell divine.

  54. #54

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    For some reason I think it was called "When the Lovelight....something." I'm just NOT good with these things!
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  55. #55

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Ok, I found it....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQqQkYYO8n8

    That was a little before your time, wasn't it? Must have been your parents Lp?

  56. #56
    Rssel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    6,129
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Mine looks like this (not my picture, but I'm fairly sure it's the same or very similar)

    Don't have a box but it's the EDT and says made in France on the bottom of the bottle.

  57. #57

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    How do you like that one ^^^ Russell? I imagine it's pretty nice. I'm waiting for my edc to arrivde now.

  58. #58

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    From a dream state, le Mouchoir de Monsieur Speaks:

    "No. Not in the least. As it happened, the Supremes played a pivotal role in my life. I can't think of any bit of culture that moulded me and shaped my opinions quite as much as the Supremes. Before I could talk, I was a tremendous dancer. There are real to real videos that exist that show a 2 year old MdM, just barely able to stand, cutting a rug with a surprising amount of panache to "Where did Our Love Go?" I suppose the records were my sister's. I know they couldn't have been my parent's: My parents were very far from indulging in that sort of thing: What's more, neither approved of it. In my family, which is a bilingual one, it is legendary that my first spoken phrase in English ran thus: "Black is Beautiful." So entranced was I by the Supremes that, by the age of 5, (circa 1970) I possessed and guarded very jealously a full collection of every single "Supremes" LP available up to that point: This collection of marvels was my prized possession. There came a moment when an LP was produced entitled: "Diana Ross Introduces the Jackson 5." At that stage, a rubicon was crossed, and, after seeing Michael Jackson perform on television, I decided that, since we were the same age, there was no reason that I could not conceivably be him. This idea caused a great amount of commotion in our household when I realized that sewing was as simple as threading a needle and stitching in and out, which discovery brought sequins and all manner of colourful appliques straight away onto my every piece of attire. My parents were livid. I remember, at one point, being punished for having covered one of my Suits, the ones that I would wear to Church, in shiny sequins. The punishment: My collection of Supremes LP's, which included my most golden prize, a particular one called "Meet the Jackson 5," confiscated. I can trace every little bit of particularity in my adult incarnation back to this fascination: It is so deep rooted that I have no recollection of where it began, or how. Interestingly, though, I was never an adult fan of Michael Jackson's. In the 80's, I used to sit out the ever-recurrent "Billie Jean," and other "Thriller" moments with annoyance: I was too cool to dance to that, at least in my head. Now that I am older, I have nothing but respect for Michael Jackson: I may have been punished for sewing sequins on my clothes, while this young boy was robbed of his childhood and performed fluently on television at 5. I have many Black friends. One of the things that unifies them all is this: These friends *always* tell me: "You remind me of Michael Jackson!" Some have gone into great detail about this. I look *nothing* like Michael Jackson: One of the things we did share was an aversion to light and sun. One of my friends, Leon, explained to me in depth why it was that I reminded him so much of MJ: This *always* fascinates me when I hear it. Leon told me: "You just got it, man! You and Michael--you're the same. I know you don't do it on purpose. You just both have something. I don't know what it is, but you got it!" (I *still* don't know what *it* is.) What I do know: I LOVE hanging out with my black friends. When I lived in New York, *NOTHING* would keep me from "Sylvia's" on Sundays--where--very frankly--I would be the only non-black member of the party: Sylvia's was/is in Harlem. I can say this: I miss ONE thing about living in NYC, and that is: Going to Harlem with my buddies. I was *always* treated with such love and warmth: I've never been anywhere else where people have been so kind to me. In my head, I always attributed this to my clothes. Black people in general appreciate extreme style. My fellow whities are often repelled by it, which works in my favour. As I have always said: "It keeps the Tourists away." Don't show me a red silk shantung tux and ask me *not* to wear it to the opening of the Opera. There was a time when my "Silver Jeans Pile" had 18 different variations of silver, from "barely there pearlized" all the way to tin-foil calf skin. Most were leather, calf, or goat. Give me those red shoes--Yes: I'll take the Ann Demeulemeester Feather Vest. I *need* this fringe jacket. I'll live in it. I don't care if the Damien Hirst covered in swawarski crystals Levi's are sold out in 28. I'll take the 30: Call the alterations person. These are some examples of MdM adult behaviour. The Supremes may well have "started" before my time, but they *made* my time--and they also *made* me who I am. They taught me how to dance. They taught me that Black, is, indeed, Beautiful. I know for a fact that, if there had been no Supremes, there would be no MdM as he stands. Michael Jackson cut it on TV at 5: I can still dance *anyone* down--and on nothing but a vod-soda-lime, at 47: It's why I get in free at virtually any dance club I know, and never pay for a single drink. Thank you, Supremes. Thank you, Michael Jackson. Now: The fact that *UNKNOWINGLY* MJ and I have the same signature scent--One Bal a Versailles--that I can't explain."
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  59. #59
    Basenotes Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    LOL Great thread since I went to work!
    MdM: I'm sure MJ wore his BaV as you do - he bathed in it. And I'm sure he first smelled it on Liz Taylor and possibly Jackie O, who was his publisher for his autobiography, Moonwalk. But he moved in extremely high-fashion circles from a very young age, so maybe he smelled it on more than one person. Also, his hairdresser wore it as well.

    There is a cute scene in the movie, This Is It, where one of the dancers smells MJ in the room before he saw him. He comments that MJ must be there because he could smell him. MJ overheard him saying that and supposedly was so embarrassed that he changed his scent the next day.

    It's a shame you didn't make the change with him as he matured as a musician. His later albums are his greatest work, IMO. Go past Billie Jean and Thriller. He got better and better as he matured.

    Lilybelle and Rubigon: Now I am quite worried about the PdT I bought, which is sealed but without box. (The one with the box on ebay now is over $200! HAH! (I am also a constant user of that great exclamation.)) But, it seems to me that it wouldn't be that hard to make a case about it. Plus if the seller was sincerely trying to be a great seller, wouldn't they work with you? Hmmmm.....

    So, it seems that y'all are saying that before I unseal it to look for several things: colors on label and strip around neck of bottle and whether the liquid seems heavier and clings to the sides of the bottle. Anything else before I open it? Wouldn't you be able to smell the perfume even through a sealed bottle? The one I got is supposed to be from a collector, so I hope it is OK! But, I learned my lesson from you guys - buy sealed boxes!

    Lilybelle: I'm glad you got the 2 oz. I can't remember the 4 oz. you're talking about. I should be able to - I looked at those listings SO much over the last two weeks! I think I'm going to start checking out thrift stores and antique shops. Maybe I'll come across a great find!

  60. #60

    lilybelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I remember Sylvia’s! I loved going there for what in Mississippi would just be called “home cooking” but in the north was called “soul food”. I'd go there when I got homesick for southern food. It was a very cool neighborhood, too. One time I took a cab uptown with a girlfriend to go to Sylvia’s and I unknowingly dropped my wallet getting out of the cab. As soon as we were seated this tall black man came in the restaurant, handed me my wallet, saying “I believe you dropped this outside.” I was flabbergasted, and so grateful. He just said something liked, “Enjoy your dinner ladies.” Very, very cool. There was another place for *fancy* soul food called Jezebel’s. It was in midtown in the 40s on the far, far west side. They made these wonderful fried chicken livers with some kind of orange sauce with grand marnier or something – I don’t even like liver but those were so good. It was romantic inside, sort of a New Orleans or Louisiana vibe. Sylvia’s was more casual.

    I loved the Jackson Five, too. Michael Jackson was exactly my age. We were born within a week or so of each other. My friends I and used to have sleepovers and play Jackson Five 45s, and we’d sing along and dance. Those songs were GREAT! They still are. When I was around eleven or so, my mother took me to Florida for a vacation, and I loved the Temptations, so since they were playing at this supper club in Miami she got tickets for us to go (I was a huge Motown fan as a child). Our table was right next to a table where Michael Jackson and the brother (is it Marlon?) who is closest in age to him were sitting. The audience that night had quite a few celebrities in it, and the spotlight went around the room introducing some of them, and it shone on Michael – and you could see this little boy in a black dinner jacket, smile and wave like a pro, like a little gentleman – but what he really wanted was to watch the Temptations. You could see he was really into the performance – everybody was. At break time all these people were coming over to him and asking for his autograph. I was at the next table – I could reach out and touch him – and my mother said, “Do you want to ask for his autograph, too?” and I was appalled! I said “No!”. I felt so disinclined to intrude on him like that. Plus I was shy, too. I’ve never asked for anybody’s autograph in my life. But it’s true that MJ had this very palpable **star** energy. He just did. His brother receded entirely into the background beside him, which was strange and made me feel badly for him. Perhaps it was Elizabeth Taylor who introduced MJ to Bal. I didn’t know Jackie Onassis was his publisher, so that would make sense too. I cried when MJ died because it felt like a part of childhood had died. And I felt very sorry for him late in his life – not to excuse pedophilia or sexual abuse of children – but I just felt very sorry for him as a person. I like his dance music…now. I remember catching him in the 80s on a grammy award show, he performed “Man in the Mirror” and there was a choir on stage with him, and I was just blown away by his energy and intensity of feeling. He lived his life in a strange bubble.

    Dogodojo, let us know how the pdt turned out! I hope it is what you are hoping for and not a disappointment.
    Last edited by lilybelle; 5th November 2012 at 12:22 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. Bal a Versailles.
    By N_Tesla in forum Female Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 19th February 2013, 11:35 PM
  2. Bal a Versailles
    By fragranceman88 in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 6th June 2011, 08:23 PM
  3. Bal a Versailles
    By fragranceman88 in forum Female Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 18th March 2011, 04:57 AM
  4. Bal a Versailles.
    By N_Tesla in forum Female Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 3rd December 2010, 09:13 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •