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  1. #61

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I ask now: How can *anyone* "our age" NOT have been entranced by Motown? You've to remember: I had parents that considered this.....obsession unhealthy. I'm sure they would have been the first to put me in lockdown if they knew MJ or D & the S's were anywhere near to be found, because I would have run a mile in my sequined suit to see either: Six years old or not! Regarding MJ: The comments--and I don't over tell the story--*ALL* of my Black friends wax on about how I "remind them of" him--and it's ubiquitous--it doesn't matter which coast or country: As I said: Obvious signs aside, (As adults, we had *this* in common: A predilection for gloves and rolled umbrellas, a fondness for red leather and tight pants, and colourless complexions. That's about all I can think of, except maybe the Damian Hirst all-over-crystal appliqued jeans, which, I'm sure, we both had: I think, when I bought mine, there were only two left in the world, but *nothing* would keep me from them. I remember telling the salesperson who didn't want to take them off the mannequin: "I don't care how much they are and that they are not on sale and a size too big. If *anyone* is meant to wear those, it's me." (a true story.) I don't feel that MJ was a pedophile. I have a hard time launching any kind of commentary like this at someone like MJ. Since we, too, are the same age, I did grow up with this man, and, when he was five, expertly putting it out on TV, I was there watching, and dancing along, in my ruffled shirt, all covered in sequins. When the show was over, I would rush upstairs and change: I had to turn back into a little Bourgeois Navy-Blue Boy. MJ couldn't do that: He just had to keep on being MJ. Knowing this, I always took his side when he had his problems. I found some of the unfortunate things that happened to him to be tragic. Watching him be humiliated on public television was particularly painful. I don't know how anyone could point there finger at this man, who gave his entire life to entertain the world, and not by choice: To sing and perform like that at 5 years old....that does not happen without training, and what 4 or even 3 year old might say: "No. I don't want to do this." I suppose I just always *understood* him -- even though there were whole decades of his career where I paid strictly no attention--and even plugged my ears-- I was too busy being all wrapped up in 4AD and DCD and other dark alt-dramas: This Mortal Coil.....etc. But then, much, much, later......I do remember witnessing the mess of MJ's later-in-life experience and being.......affected. When he died, I cried and cried. Say what you will about Michael Jackson....but think a bit how it might have felt to "be him:" There was only *One* MJ--and that man had to live in that skin his entire life: Not an easy assignment, by any means. So, in essence, I suppose I *do* find that his wearing of BaV is a *kind* of reference. Mostly--I find it ironic that I myself had come to wear it without knowing he himself had a fondness for it: I've never *not* knew about BaV: As I've said, one of my Aunts made a signature of it her whole life....and I would dab some on secretly and think it was so singular: BaV and Joy. My mother, who was a Nina Ricci Girl, hated both, and so she would harp and moan about how I had secretly "dabbed." She *loathed* both Joy and BaV....had nostrils only for the etherial barely there whispy romantic Ricci school of perfumery. Me: We all know how I turned out! LOL. "My Own Personal Rebellion." (Some did drugs. I shot up with all the perfumes my mother hated!) ....and Sylvia's: You know those After Church Sunday lunches turned into Banging Parties, right?
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  2. #62

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I don't know whether or not MJ was in fact a pedophile...whether he actually sexually molested children. I find it difficult to believe that he would intentionally harm any child, as he loved children so much, having not been allowed to be a child himself his enchantement with childhood makes sense. But he was so drugged up toward the end. And people took such advantage of him. I just feel that his life was tragic in the end. And I cried for him. Well, I want to see some pics of you in some of those clothes, MdM. One day when you learn how to scan and post pics, I'm going to demand an entire album out of you. I never went to Sylvia's on a Sunday. Was it fantastic? Were they gospel or jazz brunches, or just great parties? I wonder what I will turn into when my BaV edc arrives.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by lilybelle View Post
    How do you like that one ^^^ Russell? I imagine it's pretty nice. I'm waiting for my edc to arrivde now.
    It's pretty nice, yes. There is a somewhat odd note if sniffed close up at one point but only for a while.
    Last edited by Rssel; 5th November 2012 at 05:19 PM.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    MdM and Lilybelle: I'm a classical musician and, believe it or not, I never heard the J5 or MJ, even at his most famous. Of course, I knew who he was because he was on all the tabloids at the grocery store, but I was such a classical snob that I never listened to pop, which I regarded as musical junk! lol (Lilybelle, I am six months older than him so we are all the same age!) So, I heard his music for the first time when he died - I was online and saw the AP article and wondered, "THAT Michael Jackson?" and went to YT and watched and listened to his songs. As a classical musician, trained at the highest level, I was floored. Literally, my mouth dropped open. He was the greatest artist to walk this earth in a century.

    So, I began studying his music and read the reviews and could not believe how he was raked over the coals and maligned for the greatest music I had heard since the late romantic era. That started me reading about his life. Of course, I had heard he was a pedophile too, and I didn't want to like him because of that. But, if you research that period at all, it is absolutely clear that he was not and never had abused a child and was just being extorted by pondscum. I think it was politics - he just had toooo much money and power for a black man! Sad, but true.

    And it *was* sad to see him as a drug addict at the end of his life. Many say that using propofol like that wasn't an addiction, but I think it was. His doctor killed the greatest artist we've had in a long time, but the media and public killed him first. I think he was just way ahead of his time, which is why I hope people who only got to "Thriller" will eventually listen to all he wrote - especially at the end of his life. I was researching some of his compositional idioms, hoping to write about them, but haven't had the time I need for that. :-(

    Anyway, I agree with MdM - his sense of style was impeccable (and also ahead of its time, as MdM clearly was also!). He was an artist in all regards. Probably had I listened to him at the time, I would have discounted it, so in a way, I'm glad I came to his music and artistry in my own maturity (snobbery worn away by time and life). ;-)

    Lilybelle, I can't wait to receive my perfume! I got all three kinds: EdC, PdT and Parfum. And I will let you guys know what I think (and probably have a million more questions - like, for instance, how do I unseal the bottle correctly?). I was so excited today was Monday - that means they all went into the mail today! Yay!

    I think when I was wearing Obsession was the best period of my life. I think that's why I want the "magic" of BaV now. I need that feeling again.

    You guys are great and I am so glad I found this thread!!

  5. #65

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Dogodojo, it is very nice to make your acquaintance, too! Welcome to Basenotes. I'm looking forward to reading your impressions of BaV.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    What a great thread! I wore BaV in the 70s and 80s, and loved it. As a cub reporter in Atlanta, I interviewed a scent chemist and discussed current frags with him. I mentioned my love of BaV, and he literally went pale and silent and bowed his head! Then he said, "Ah yes. Hundreds of ingredients, that one. Couldn't begin to analyze it."
    Well, hopefully he now reads BN and has acquired a bit more knowledge.
    I still love it, but not the current juice.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    This has been a fascinating (and hilarious) discussion! After a cruise around ebay (and two small purchases of the first and second reforms), I saw what looked like older bottles with a dark blue label in a dark blue box. Are these the parfum version of the first reform? Waddya think, experts...
    The unnatural and the strange have a perfume of their own
    ― Fernando Pessoa

  8. #68

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by redrose View Post
    I mentioned my love of BaV, and he literally went pale and silent and bowed his head! Then he said, "Ah yes. Hundreds of ingredients, that one. Couldn't begin to analyze it."
    I love that.

    Bamboogrrrl, I've seen Bal edc with blue labels. I don't know whether parfum versions came in a blue box. Maybe ask the seller? Ask to see photos of all sides of the box -- strength should be indicated somewhere. lMdM may check in again, he would know. He knows everything BaV. I'm still waiting for my edc to arrive, should be this week -- maybe tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The 2 oz. bottle came in today's mail. I just put a dab on my hand since I'm already wearing Calche. Tomorrow will be the real wearing, but I'm pretty sure this is wonderful and that I love it. It's so orange-blossomy sweet (I love that) and it's got that irresistible whiff of funk. I can't stop sniffing my hand.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    My PdT just arrived!!!! YAY! It's freezing cold from being outside all eve. Seller packed it really well - took ten minutes to cut it out of all the plastic wrap! So, it is sitting on the kitchen counter warming up and I am watching it like viewing a painting in a museum! lol

    So, all you vintage perfume experts: what is the best way to get an old stopper unsealed?

    Thanks for any advice. Hurry please. I must open it tonight! (well, I suppose it isn't tonight any more for most people. But it still is for me!) :-)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Wow. This stopper is stuck - but good! I've tried wrapping a hot towel around the neck of the bottle and icing the stopper. Nope. Tried using a Q-tip to put a teeny amount of oil around the seal then putting the whole thing in the freezer and trying again. Nope. I think I've strained every muscle in my neck, arms and back! At least I would hope this means that the bottle is not a dummy and the perfume has just formed a sticky seal.

    Any other suggestions? Whaaa! I want to open this bottle!

  10. #70

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    That sounds very frustrating, Dogodojo. Maybe start a thread, asking for advice? My edc is a screw cap, and it seems I had to push on it to recap it, like a childproof cap. It was well sealed, and it smells very fresh. Your seal bodes well for the freshness of the fragrance -- once you get it UNsealed. Send lMdM a pm, maybe he can advise you.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Thanks Lilybelle. It is still in tightly! I will PM MdM. And yes, I was thinking that this is probably a good indication it is not a dummy (actually in beautiful condition on the outside and very full!) and is the real thing (and will be fresh if EVER opened!).

    I had it in a plastic bag when soaking in warm water, but only had the water level to the (almost) top of the neck. I think I'll try immersing the whole bottle in a bit hotter water to see if it "melts" the sticky perfume around the stopper. I hate to think what all these efforts might be doing to the perfume!

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by lilybelle View Post
    ...
    I'm confused.

    The above bottle is the ONLY version of BaV that I've smelled. Is it vintage or not?
    "One day I will find the right words, and they will be simple"

    -- Jack Kerouac

  13. #73

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    If I understand MdM correctly, this edc bottle can be both. I have such a bottle and the box clearly says Genesis FL (ie recent), but I think the same edc bottle was used for the pre-Genesis versions. There is also a bigger, square glass bottle for the edc which I think is more likely to be older.

    cacio

  14. #74

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by dogodojo View Post
    Thanks Lilybelle. It is still in tightly! I will PM MdM. And yes, I was thinking that this is probably a good indication it is not a dummy (actually in beautiful condition on the outside and very full!) and is the real thing (and will be fresh if EVER opened!).

    I had it in a plastic bag when soaking in warm water, but only had the water level to the (almost) top of the neck. I think I'll try immersing the whole bottle in a bit hotter water to see if it "melts" the sticky perfume around the stopper. I hate to think what all these efforts might be doing to the perfume!
    I had this problem with my bottle of vintage Shalimar EDC. I know this sounds risky, but I don't think it is: I ended heating up the bottle neck with my hand (I just held the top until the glass warmed), then prying the stopper out very gently with a butter knife wrapped in a paper towel. Stoppers are thick and solid glass, and do not break easily. Just work it out from all directions little by little until it loosens thoroughly.


    And great thread! I love BaV...have tried the EDT and the parfum. I like both but find the parfum much more wearable for the aforementioned reasons. Rich, smooth, luxurious, shimmering beauty that rivals the finest Guerlains and Carons. Maybe I haven't smelled a "challenging" enough version, or maybe I'm just not sensitive to animalism anymore, but I never though of this scent as anything but purely beautiful.
    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  15. #75

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Animalic-ness (?) IS beautiful, LiveJazz, when it's done right. I have been wearing the edc all day, and it is just wonderful, and I can see a man easily wearing this one, though it is ornate - perfectly named. The animalic aspect is very apparent, but also subtle because it wears close to the skin once it has dried down. It's like smelling one's own skin-scenty, musky, unbathed scent, which has been splashed over with an expensive scent - and reveling in it. There is a sort of "whatever" everyday nonchalance about it, and yet it is very *formal*. I actually did have a shower today, but I don't smell like I did. I love the orange blossom in it. It is a syrupy, thick orange blossom; and there is a sweet, powdery and - to me - masculine aspect of amber, which is why I think men can wear this so well, and so many other ingredients that I can't identify - there are so many, and they are so expertly composed. It is impossible to deconstruct and analyze this fragrance, for me certainly. It is floral, golden, ambery, oriental, dirty-animalic (in the most delicious - not gross - way), resiny, slightly incensy...and this is just the eau de cologne. I was tutoring tonight one-on-one with a pupil, and I did not feel self conscious about my fragrance (I try to tone it down for tutoring), and my pupil didn't seem to notice anything at all - but I did. I just felt like I had this secret deliciousness all to myself, like being wrapped in an invisible pashmina. I love that. I love this vingtage edc. What eau today (what edp?) delivers so much pleasure and complexity and food for the imagination and sense of satisfaction?

  16. #76

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Oh, Dear! Good thing I have ROOMS of this on hand. To clarify, the most important thing to verify when buying BaV is first and foremost that it is *not* Genisis. This can be difficult. Initially, the Genisis versions were packaged almost exactly like the original, later and final version of the scent as done in it's second reformulation: This final reform, still made in France by Jean Desprez, I will call: "The Soapy One."

    THE SOAPY ONE:

    The Soapy One is recognizable by it's bright sunflower yellow box. The box has the "La Coupe des Sens" medallion design on it. The bottles are mostly round, and the vapos are white like the one that is pictured here, or, in their bigger sizes, have a gold filigree on, along with the Medallion and a gold cap. In this version, there was Eau de Toilette and Parfum, as well as an EdC as pictured above: the EdP was discontinued in the second reform, and there is no "The Soapy One" EdP. All of this "Dressing" carried over to Genisis initially--so many sunflower boxed items on e-bay WILL be Genisis. Genisis's "version" of Bal is *not* Bal. The Soapy One's "pour" EdC came in a BLUE BOX, with a BLUE LABEL ON. This was short lived, and never carried over to Genisis. The Soapy One is......very soapy.....and it smells *exactly* like nag champa incense soap: It remains soapy from start to finish--and it is *much* sweeter than in any of it's previous incarnations.

    THE FIRST REFORM:

    The First Reform, very hard to distinguish from the original, as the packaging is identical, is distinguishable *only* by a new "Jean Desprez" logo writing style. The First Reform dates from the mid 70's--so this new logo has a bit of a disco flair to it: It is not the scrolly cursive that is the original logo, which was eventually re-used by Genisis. The boxes are a pale, butter yellow for the parfum--which was wrapped like a gift--or printed to look as if--with a curry coloured silk twist cord around. This "wrapped" packaging is seen aslo in the EdP in the famous lyre flacon w/marble stopper. The EdC was in the square bottles in an all white box. The First Reform smells slightly less dense than the original, but it is still very much BaV: No soapyness. No Nag Champa. Nothing recognizable. Just perfectly seamless. 460 essences......that's hard to do.....and get right. Very few perfumes manage an essence list this long and come out smelling like anything this intoxicatingly divine, and not sickening, or noxious, like Carons.

    THE ORIGINAL:

    The Original had more than 460 essences--I've read there were as many as +/-600, and several were quite poisonous. It is the *MOST* divine of all. Packaging looks exactly like The First Reform, so it's near impossible to tell them apart. I have devised ways but they are so intricate that they would be impossible to describe here. Someone mentioned numbers on the boxes: No531 or No225--this is one way: These are not "lots." They are size indications. The Original is the one I wear exclusively. I like it better than the first reform--but the differences are so subtle: Somehow--it's more suave. Perhaps a bit more masculine by today's standards. The parfum is FIERCE. It smells of petrol and is absolutely ferocious. The EdP is rich and resinous, very complex, not nearly as floral as the EdC, which is the most floral of the three. I prefer the original as it is here that Jean Desprez's groundbreaking idea of presenting a trio of scents, all very different, to be worn together, according to situation, is *so obvious.* The EdC (Orange blossom rose incense musk) smells nothing like the EdP (burnt caramel, chocolate chip cookies, heat, resins and heaps and heaps of benzoin) and it in turn smells *nothing* like the parfum (olfactory mind fuck: No description possible--the only thing i've ever smelled as staunchly bizarre as this is Tabac Blond--yet BaV is never *unpleasant* the way TB can sometimes be, It *is* frankly shocking. You can't *not* notice it.) It's not particularly sweet--it's just dense beyond belief and smells like *nothing else.* Not even a Guerlain, in my opinion, has come close to this. Carons have--but these are most always inherently vulgar where BaV is never vulgar--it's just complex, and *VERY* aloof. On the other hand, it ROARS of sex appeal. The thing I love about it was summed up by a friend of mine. Her take on it ran this way: "You smell like an orgy....except there are velvet ropes all around it....and they are not taking any new applicants." The Original is the one that is *instantly* recognizable as BaV--it's the one that has that smoooooooth dank air about it.....it's comforting AND disquieting at the same time, which, to me, is the mark of genius.

    It is important to know that, before the second reform and Genesis with it's revolting piss water reform came along, BaV was *Always* THREE SCENTS. They were meant to be THREE SCENTS. It was never suggested they were the same, and they never were: If you wear all three together, you achieve the ultimate vision of Jean Desprez: If you wear them seperately, you achieve a slice of it--but each slice is equally fascinating.

    About the Genisis version: I have *no idea* what they put in there but it's VERY heavy on the artificial civet. It's so artificial civet heavy that it reeks of dirty underwear, dirty sheets, and dirty bathroom. It's also virtually impossible to get it off of you once you've got it on your skin. Nothing takes it off except time. A long time. I have a bottle of the Parfum--and I don't even like handling it--just touching the bottle, the fingers become polluted. Genisis is the bulk of what's on ebay. If it comes in a metallic box, it's Genisis. Has *anyone* tried "the new" BaV? because genesis sold JD to a company based in Valencia california that has a BN presence called "Jean Desprez." They actually sell it. You can go on their website and buy it through a link on their user page. I would *never* touch this personally but it would be interesting to hear if anyone has.
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  17. #77

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by lilybelle View Post
    Animalic-ness (?) IS beautiful, LiveJazz, when it's done right. I have been wearing the edc all day, and it is just wonderful, and I can see a man easily wearing this one, though it is ornate - perfectly named. The animalic aspect is very apparent, but also subtle because it wears close to the skin once it has dried down.
    I must try the EDC then! I totally agree that animal notes can be and often are beautiful. Heck, some of my favorites are civet beasts like Givenchy Gentleman, Eau d'Hermes, Kouros and of course beloved Jicky. It's just that the animal notes in BaV (especially the parfum) aren't really apparent to me, especially after the first 10 minutes or so (however, I will admit that the early phase of the EDT has a good dose of raunch to it!). But I love it either way - it just comes across as more of a smoldering and sexy amber floral with the warmth of musk, but no apparent unwashed notes...again, after the opening. I guess I did phrase my earlier post in a way that made "beauty" and animalism sound mutually exclusive, but I didn't mean it that way.

    Maybe I am detecting them, but animal notes just read as "warmth" to me, and just add an extra dimension without truly drawing attention to themselves. Even the most supposedly raunchy, barnyardish scents rarely come across that way for me.

    Anyway, I'm glad there are so many fans! This stuff isn't (or hasn't been...I haven't been around much lately) talked about much.
    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  18. #78

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Interesting thread. Appreciate all the background information on the different formulations. Who knew? I had my first sniff of BaV while in London in September. I was visiting Les Senteurs and happened to try it. Fabulous! Really wonder what the vintage smells like. I bought a miniature bottle of it on ebay and use it sparingly. Great stuff and very sexy. Love the review about Liz and Dick and how BaV was part of their story; I think the BaV have drove him crazy for her! Can't really picture Jackie wearing it. Wasn't she really more of a Chanel girl?

  19. #79

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveJazz View Post
    I must try the EDC then! I totally agree that animal notes can be and often are beautiful. Heck, some of my favorites are civet beasts like Givenchy Gentleman, Eau d'Hermes, Kouros and of course beloved Jicky. It's just that the animal notes in BaV (especially the parfum) aren't really apparent to me, especially after the first 10 minutes or so (however, I will admit that the early phase of the EDT has a good dose of raunch to it!). But I love it either way - it just comes across as more of a smoldering and sexy amber floral with the warmth of musk, but no apparent unwashed notes...again, after the opening. I guess I did phrase my earlier post in a way that made "beauty" and animalism sound mutually exclusive, but I didn't mean it that way.

    Maybe I am detecting them, but animal notes just read as "warmth" to me, and just add an extra dimension without truly drawing attention to themselves. Even the most supposedly raunchy, barnyardish scents rarely come across that way for me.

    Anyway, I'm glad there are so many fans! This stuff isn't (or hasn't been...I haven't been around much lately) talked about much.
    I noticed I hadn't seen you around in a while, LiveJazz. It's good to see you again! I hope all is well with you. I do know what you mean about animalic notes: some people's noses seem to be so very sensitive to them (in terms of the *ick* raunch factor), while I merely find most of them pleasant. I suppose I'm just a dirty little beast. The Genesis Bal edc in the white glass spray bottle that I had was very skanky. When I tried it I felt like I'd been on a Woodstock free-love living-in-the-rough/buff on-the-road bender for a month or so (no laundry facilities & no showers). It was interesting, but not what I wanted to smell like on a normal daily basis. I like musk, but I can't wear heavily spiced and ambery fragrances because they wear me. I'm never turned off by musk, though, which is sweet to me, and civet, which can be so wonderful (vintage Joy, e.g.). This vintage Bal edc (square glass bottle) is perfect in its balance (I'm no expert nose but it seems perfect to me). It's not as strongly civetty as Jicky (which I love, too, btw). Actually, I take that back. It is quite civetty, but I like that. I haven't tried the other formultions lMdM speaks of ^^^ but I definitely will at some point.

    Heavenscent1, I see Jackie more as a Joy or Herms girl (she did ride, don't forget). I can see her in BaV. I can see her in 24 Faubourg, though I don't know whether she was still alive when that was released. I think it would have suited her. I don't see her as Chanel so much (I mean later, after Jack died and she remarried), but, who knows, she probably had many fragrances. As I've grown older I admire her style very much. She had great style because she had a great ease with it. That's how we should express our own styles - with ease, being comfortable in our own skins and with our own tastes. Even though she was quite low key, she had that je ne sais quoi . lMdM would probably say, "of course she did, she was French!" (partially).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    Oh, Dear! Good thing I have ROOMS of this on hand.
    I know! You're fine, but Rubegon will never speak to me again.
    Last edited by lilybelle; 9th November 2012 at 07:43 PM.

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    So lilybelle, this EdC that you're loving and wearing, this is NOT the photo you posted above? It's another bottle (you said in your post above "square glass bottle"? I am still confused. Can you post a photo of it, if I'm understanding you correctly?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Is this vintage parfum?

    Last edited by mikeperez23; 9th November 2012 at 03:34 PM.
    "One day I will find the right words, and they will be simple"

    -- Jack Kerouac

  21. #81

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    So lilybelle, this EdC that you're loving and wearing, this is NOT the photo you posted above? It's another bottle (you said in your post above "square glass bottle"? I am still confused. Can you post a photo of it, if I'm understanding you correctly?
    Mikepere: She bought the EdC which looks like this box and bottle: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BAL-a-VERSAI...item3a7b9381eb

    - - - Updated - - -

    Is this vintage parfum?

    [/QUOTE]

    From what MdM described I think it is a safe bet to assume that is vintage parfum (though I don't know if it is original or first reform).

    Lilybelle and MdM: I got the EdC yesterday and wore it all day and just now the Parfum came!!!! Oh...... My....... God! I'm amazed. What a heady experience! I can't write more now, but want to share what EdC experience and Parfum experience are like later. I feel like I am wrapped in a blanket of warmth. Like a cocoon of radiant happiness - but quiet, calm radiance.

    Still can't get the PdT open. I tried for hours last night - until I ruined my hand. Ow. :-(

  22. #82
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Thanks!
    "One day I will find the right words, and they will be simple"

    -- Jack Kerouac

  23. #83

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    LOL! My first wife (74-77) used to wear this... smelled like bubble-gum.

  24. #84

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Mike, I sent you a pm. I think that is the box lMdM refers to under The First Reform (hard to distinguinsh from original).

    Dogodojo, yes it does have that enveloping effect. I love that. That is my favorite type of fragrance: one that is enveloping, warm and lulling. And on the other side of the spectrum, I like bright citrussy & happy scents for the energizing effects.

    And now I will say goodbye because I'm afraid that all of the BaV will be bought up due to this thread, and whatever is left in the world is owned by lMdM. I'm sorry, Rube. Will you ever forgive me?

  25. #85

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by lilybelle View Post
    And now I will say goodbye because I'm afraid that all of the BaV will be bought up due to this thread, and whatever is left in the world is owned by lMdM. I'm sorry, Rube. Will you ever forgive me?
    Awww... don't go. It won't. Not everyone loves this fragrance and it will go back to normal, if not stay normal. ;-) Have you checked out the sold page for bal a versailles on ebay? There's lots and good prices. They'll still be there. I got a great deal the other day on a teeny bottle (3/4 full) of the original parfum! IT IS SO COOL!! I'll write about that later too. Please stay....

  26. #86
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by lilybelle View Post
    Mike, I sent you a pm. I think that is the box lMdM refers to under The First Reform (hard to distinguinsh from original).

    Dogodojo, yes it does have that enveloping effect. I love that. That is my favorite type of fragrance: one that is enveloping, warm and lulling. And on the other side of the spectrum, I like bright citrussy & happy scents for the energizing effects.

    And now I will say goodbye because I'm afraid that all of the BaV will be bought up due to this thread, and whatever is left in the world is owned by lMdM. I'm sorry, Rube. Will you ever forgive me?

    i just ordered 10 bottles from 5 different places no need to look anymore hehe, i bought up everything, and yes i have tastes and everyone believes me when i say its a wonderluf scent so everyone will just follow

    basicly why do they produce other scents anymore hehehehe

    i am joking, but when you describe it.....this kind of feeling i get from Shalimar........i dont want to be hooked on any more vintage!! and live in this horror of not having enough

    the best way to enjoy the perfume for me is to know i can buy it whenever i want....so trying vintage is like opening pandora box.

    but my curiosity is stil the devil inside me, and one time when i get a chance to try it in a swap would try it, just to see whats all the fuss about it!

    - - - Updated - - -

    oh one more question....when you wear this perfume do you often get complimented how nice you smell? this would be interesting answer
    Last edited by iivanita; 9th November 2012 at 10:08 PM.

  27. #87

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I hardly ever get any compliments when I wear BaV. People just say: "You smell good," which is tantamount to saying: "You stink." However: French men compliment me incessantly when I wear it. It's very strange. They actually ask: "C'est quoi ce parfum? mais c'est divin!" Or else: "Putain! Tu sens bon!" --when they say it, they mean it. The only perfume I ever get rave reviews on is "Rien" by ELO. Personally, I don't require this much attention--or this kind of attention I should say--I already get too much, what with people thinking I'm a circus act and all. --I already have the way I look, and my clothes to deal with-- "Rien," --it's as if I'm walking around with a siren on my head: EVERYONE wants to sniff me. It drives me crazy--but it is convenient as a FM frag. (never fails, and when one is single, quite the problem solver.) BaV.....I think people just don't know what to make of it.
    Personally, I feel it suits me. I'm never *quite right* and neither is it. I also staunchly refuse to smell fresh: It's just not me. I *need* to smell dirty. It suits the way I look. I detest the idea that I should smell clean. I'm also one to be frankly obsessed with personal body smells--so this may explain why I am so attracted to it, and make Jicky & BaV my two signature scents. Both smell a bit like the human body. All of the scents that have truly *meant* something to me are on this paradigm, excepting English Fern. This, my mother picked out for me when I was about 7--and I, loyally, wore it for almost 10 years. I am just a "signature smell" sort of guy, you know. Now that--I used to get compliments all the time on it. Compliments make me nervous, actually. I never seek them. On the note of Jacqueline Kennedy, I *know for a fact* that Jicky was her main signature, but that she also favoured BaV: I have this from a non questionable source, so you might all just believe it. The Queen--I'm not convinced: Wouldn't it be too ironic? (HRM Queen Marie-Antoinette of France and all) I really only wear perfume to entertain myself. I can't quite give a fig about what others think. When I've been challenged, I've looked people squarely in the eye and told them: "I am very perfumey. Get used to it." The photo above is a VERY fine first issue vintage of Bal I would date before 1968. I wanted to buy this one--many times--but it's just ridiculous to have so much and be buying more: Especially the parfum. I have several 4oz flacons in the cave, wrapped in box, and countless 29ml ones--and I don't know how many of the three sizes identical to the one above. (1/8 ounce, 1/4 ounce, 1/2 ounce) Interesting to think: 1/4 ounce of vintage Bav p perfumes you like about 4 to 5 --maybe even 6 ounces of Jicky parfum. Seriously, though: The p: it's *not* for the faint of heart!
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  28. #88

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by iivanita View Post
    oh one more question....when you wear this perfume do you often get complimented how nice you smell? this would be interesting answer
    Iivnita: I wanted to answer this earlier. Yesterday, I wore the EdC to work (for the first time) and excitedly went around to everyone sticking my arm under their noses and asking, "what do you think?"
    1. Woman almost 50 years old: "It smells like the 1960s!" (Wow. Good nose!)
    2. Male writer, about 30 years old: "Oh! I like that!" (I'd previously told him of the perfume and the history and he knew I was obsessed with getting some.)
    3. Female, about 40 years old: "You smell like an eccentric old lady." (Me: "I AM an eccentric old lady.")
    4. Male, late 20s, ex-military: "EW! Get away from me!" (lol He usually says that with or without perfume!)

    Well, you get the idea. A very few liked it and the rest had a variety of negative reactions. I, however, loved it and was happy all day!

    I think what MdM said above is right. It isn't for everyone and suits a special personality type. (Which is why I don't think all the supply will be bought up because of this thread.)

    MdM: I LOVE your posts. You have described things in a way that mean so much to me, which I want to write about but again didn't have time.

    The parfum I got that you said was probably over 40 years old is wonderful even though it has been opened who knows how long. I tried the parfum in the sealed box, took a shower and put the old parfum on for the rest of the day. Almost 12 hours later, it has not changed into that lovely vanilla/amber powder that the EdC does and I suspect maybe even the first reform parfum does? (Didn't have that one on long enough to know that - will experiment more.) But what I have on now is very much a body scent which I also love. It has the powder but as an undertone. There are a lot of spices above that (not hot spices - mulled spices). Do you know what I mean? I don't have the right words for this.

    I didn't find either the EdC or the parfum "skanky" at all. And I went around the house smelling all my cats' butts and the dog too (he growled at me). lol I don't get skank. But I get warmth - the kind of smell you get when you nuzzle someone and get your nose right on their skin. Maybe I just don't know what skank means. I don't think it smells dirty but not clean either (don't like clean anyway, so that's fine).

    But the real wonderment of it is that first hour or so. It really goes to your head, doesn't it? What it made me think of is those mystical philosophers who pondered the higher spiritual octaves. I think this perfume has a very high octave to it. (Don't know how to describe that either.) Anyway, maybe you just have to be a very old (and therefore, dirty) soul to really like the real BaV.

    So, aside from brief reactions, I have another "how to identify" question for you. After reading your descriptive post of the different formulations, I went back online and looked at boxes to see differences. What I noticed right away was that some of the curly font "Jean Desprez" signatures have the "registered" R symbol (also on the Bal a Versailles name). And other boxes don't have that at all. Some say Paris France and others just say Paris. (And I'm the one who noticed the numbers on the sides of the boxes! Me! Me! lol) So, what would that registered trademark sign mean regarding which formulation it might be? And what do the numbers tell you in terms of which formulation?

    I can easily see this as a very sexy men's fragrance - almost more so on a man than a woman. Where my friend said, "you smell like an eccentric old woman," I would think it would make a man seem distinguished/sexy.

    I can also truly imagine wearing all three at once. My immediate response to the parfum is that I wanted to put the EdC under it. I forced myself not to because I want to experiment with each one at a time first.

    And the other thought I had when I put the parfum on was that it was the slow movement of Mahler's third symphony, which is agonizingly sexy.

    Anyway, now I'm just rambling. Too tired. Thanks for all your posts!

  29. #89
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    OMG now I have to get some vintage juice. Jeez...
    "One day I will find the right words, and they will be simple"

    -- Jack Kerouac

  30. #90

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Yeah. So, I already get enough hate mail. People accuse me of all manner of things. One said: "All you, leMdM, have to do is mention a perfume to quadruple prices in e-bay auctions." Another said "would you please STOP? You've already made Jicky vintage a holy grail--and Mouchoir--forget it--this is all because of YOU!" --Those are examples of the mean ones--I've had nicer ones as well--but all begging me to STOP divulging. SO: this will be my last comment on this thread. Lilybelle and I have Jellabas to find. She wants hers in Chantilly pink trimmed in Marabout, and I want mine in Dark Ash Blond trimmed in aigrette plumes, tone on tone, and I've already ordered 40+ meters of "Je Reviens" blue silk chiffon for Ingami: We have our own "Burning Man" coming up & there's no time to be spilling secrets. At any rate--I was happy to give them while I could. One last detail about BaV: (very honestly) It *really* isn't for everyone. You sort of have to be a bit daft to wear this, so, blind buyers, don't bother. It's frankly out of line by today's standards of obviousness. It lacks "the sperm note."
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  31. #91

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    Yeah. So, I already get enough hate mail. People accuse me of all manner of things. One said: "All you, leMdM, have to do is mention a perfume to quadruple prices in e-bay auctions." Another said "would you please STOP? You've already made Jicky vintage a holy grail--and Mouchoir--forget it--this is all because of YOU!" --Those are examples of the mean ones--I've had nicer ones as well--but all begging me to STOP divulging.
    I could be all from you, but I suspect it is more from the Michael Jackson fan community, who discuss it regularly because they want to smell like him. I'm sure that in the last three years there has been a FLOOD of people wanting it and not knowing the difference between all the formulations.
    One last detail about BaV: (very honestly) It *really* isn't for everyone. You sort of have to be a bit daft to wear this, so, blind buyers, don't bother. It's frankly out of line by today's standards of obviousness. It lacks "the sperm note."
    Yes, that is also what I was hoping to convey by sharing the reactions of people who smelled it on me. It is from the very END of the late-romantic era when emotional expression was at its height and was extremely complicated and complex. That era is LONG GONE and has been replaced with fast, harsh, non-emotional minimalism. And the minimalism is all manufactured sounds/thoughts (binary philosophy, for example)/smells.

    At the end of that era, people understood that beautiful was ugly, which is why you keep saying that this scent is fierce and not necessarily nice. You can only have beauty if you have ugliness in equal, if not greater measure. (That is one reason, for example in "The best jasmine perfume" thread I happened to read, one poster said that it smelled great for a very short time and then she tired of it.) People look for beauty by itself - pretty, light fragrances, I suppose. But, beauty, in and of itself, is boring. And the late-romanticists knew that. (Well, we have moved to ALL ugliness, but that is a whole 'nother subject!)

    Anyway, I am sorry to see the advice coming to an end in this thread. It has been so valuable (to me at least) and informative. I can't tell you how grateful I am that you responded with so much info!!!!

    Thanks again!

  32. #92
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    Yeah. So, I already get enough hate mail. People accuse me of all manner of things. One said: "All you, leMdM, have to do is mention a perfume to quadruple prices in e-bay auctions." Another said "would you please STOP? You've already made Jicky vintage a holy grail--and Mouchoir--forget it--this is all because of YOU!" --Those are examples of the mean ones--I've had nicer ones as well--but all begging me to STOP divulging. SO: this will be my last comment on this thread. Lilybelle and I have Jellabas to find. She wants hers in Chantilly pink trimmed in Marabout, and I want mine in Dark Ash Blond trimmed in aigrette plumes, tone on tone, and I've already ordered 40+ meters of "Je Reviens" blue silk chiffon for Ingami: We have our own "Burning Man" coming up & there's no time to be spilling secrets. At any rate--I was happy to give them while I could. One last detail about BaV: (very honestly) It *really* isn't for everyone. You sort of have to be a bit daft to wear this, so, blind buyers, don't bother. It's frankly out of line by today's standards of obviousness. It lacks "the sperm note."
    Hahaha this is hilarious:-)

    I really can not believe this, smells and perfumes are pretty much the same part of taste as food is, so if you say you enjoy eating fish everyone should start buying fish!!......you said you rarely get complimented for it, and dogodojo confirmed it too, and i believe you it smells dirty!!

    The most dirty smell i have is amouage Gold, pre reformulation, i like it very much but cant wear it every day, and its not likable at all its weird! And whenever some girl says its her signature i believe it, and wonder at the same time how can she honestly enjoy that civet smell, i say i like it because its weird, and i often buy things that are not likable at first but that can be tricky because with food i never eat what i don't like at first:-) , and many perfume lovers have scents they don use at all! So this tells all about your taste, more then what one thinks he likes:-)
    , and wherever you look they all ramble about some reflection man, memoire man....oki that one i did not try:-) ,very few people adore Gold for women, and wear it every single day

    So to like some scent on that level i think is predetermined by your overall taste, or body chemistry i don't know how to explain better, i don't think anyone can talk herself/himslef into enjoying something

    It takes an individual to pull that BaV off, how i imagined it, and suddenly everyone wants to stink :-)

    I enjoy this thread so so much, and if price of this perfume goes up, then

    As a real trader MdM you should start buying something cheap post few threads here and sell it to the market,
    Or maybe consider selling your stock piles of BaV to all the new lovers of this scent .....its huge asset to be Trendsetter of this magnitude hehe
    Last edited by iivanita; 10th November 2012 at 09:28 PM.

  33. #93

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by lilybelle View Post

    Heavenscent1, I see Jackie more as a Joy or Herms girl (she did ride, don't forget). I can see her in BaV. I can see her in 24 Faubourg, though I don't know whether she was still alive when that was released. I think it would have suited her. I don't see her as Chanel so much (I mean later, after Jack died and she remarried), but, who knows, she probably had many fragrances. As I've grown older I admire her style very much. She had great style because she had a great ease with it. That's how we should express our own styles - with ease, being comfortable in our own skins and with our own tastes. Even though she was quite low key, she had that je ne sais quoi . lMdM would probably say, "of course she did, she was French!" (partially). (
    Jackie was an outdoors girl, too, wasn't she. I always think of her as 1st lady and as an editor in her later years. I admired her so much! The epitome of grace and charm. 24 Faubourg is some very classy stuff; I got a sample just because I read that Princess Di wore it. The only Joy I've smelled is from the perfume counter and I thought it was atrocious, but maybe the vintage is nice. She probably did wear a selection of different fragrances, I wonder what they were.

  34. #94
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    finally i tried this famous M.Jacksons perfume

    i tried vintage EDC from 1962! got sample from dear basenoter M.!! (THANK YOU!)and i was expecting something unpleasant, something civety animalic.......and hard to wear.....but was surprised it was not that stinky
    after 2 hours or maybe 3 it became such a pleasant warm scent, just like some have described like your second skin, and i was trying to get roses, could not at all, maybe orange flower yes but am not too sure how orange flower smells, but what i get the most is powdery sweetnes, and civet note! and that sweet a bit like barnyard note i connect to tolu balsam and civet ...and powdery note to orris root, it did remind me in moments of Cuir de russie from Chanel. i dont get too much musk as well, i get more musk from Shalimar...the overall feeling is dry powdery balsamic civet note with a touch of sweetnes, that attracted me the most

    and today i tested it along with my regular perfume wich is "clean"(nothing animalic) and was surprised how upon application just a dab of that cologne takes over and smells so so sooo animalic, civety, did not notice that last night! was almost reppeling, so wearing this day in day out and enjoying every second of it....must take a man or big individuality ! its so masculine to me....
    it is strong civet note but nothing sharp like i get in Amouage Gold, and in the dry down the whole perfume gets so beautiful! where in Amouage Gold how time passes by it gets more stinky to me....

    its very beautiful becasue its so strong! and longlasting....and perfume?, i am sure i could not wear it at any occasion...its just too weird! and from everything i have read here this is another scent and more demanding!

    but really nice i have tried it...and when i get bored of clean smells i may wear some EDC but nothing more then that its just on the edge for me to pull it off...ofcourse if i can go through the first 1 hour too early to tell hehe....

  35. #95

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I have been wearing Bal a Versailles since it was released in 1962. I had a few sidesteps into "green" Vent Vert, orig. formula; 4711, etc but that only served to prove the point which is: There is no other that can touch it. Tho there are many interesting scents that one may wear - let's say for going to a PTA meeting, or some other place where one does not want one's personality so nakedly displayed via one's scent.

    One of the extraordinary aspects of this complex chemical brew is that it takes very, very little of it to be enveloped in its shimmering aura. And let me say that in all my years of wearing it I have never smelled the "urine" "stink", as some people call it. Not that it is not incredibly erotic - it is. Not that it is ladylike - it isn't, at least, not in the North American conception of that term. But I can tell you that it is European-ladylike.

    I don't believe that Jackie Kennedy ever wore this except as the obligatory slap-it-on-the-wrist-because-it-was-a-gift. If this was Michael Jackson's favourite scent I can only say he needed mothering. Because apart from its gorgeously understated, but very insistent, erotic notes, what it provides is a feeling of comfort, safety, warmth. The tensions between the former and the latter are what makes the real Bal a Versailles the complex, one-of-a-kind rarity that it is.

    And to anyone who has not tried it I would say stay far away from the foil box.....I haven't had the misfortune of smelling it myself, but what I read here and elsewhere is shudder-inducing.

  36. #96

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I love your post, Bluemlein! Welcome! I now regularly wear Bal Versailles edc (vintage) and it is indeed a comforting fragrance. It is an intimate fragrance for me, something close and whispering. I don't wear it every day but fairly often, and I love being cocooned in its security. I can understand why it has been your mainstay for so many years. It is a very special fragrance, a living organism in a way. Even among great classics, few compare. Once bitten, you can never go back to anything less satisfying. Interesting, what you say about Jackie Kennedy, and about Michael Jackson's possibly needing mothering. I can imagine he did! Maybe we all do, we who love Bal.

  37. #97

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I had a 1980's vintage bottle and case that looked like that in college! I wish I would have kept it! I need to return to these older perfumes that have kick and silage. I find it hard to locate modern perfumes with this strength of silage and personality. The bottle is literally a work of art!

  38. #98

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I used to wear BaV all the time so that I was considered a "favoured client" by the retailer. One day, in the mid-Seventies, I was approached by the perfume vendeuse who pressed a thick envelope into my hand, very surreptitiously, as though she were transferring contraband. It was an accordion-fold from JD announcing the availability, for a very short time, of a special Sevres porcelain bottle full of BaV, an abstracted version of a Greek statue or some such, bisque porcelain with discreet touches of gold.
    Oooh! I wanted it so badly! But it was hideously expensive so I could not in good conscience spend more on a little bottle of perfume than on half a year's mortgage payments (the city was then undiscovered; housing was inexpensive and affordable). Now I wish I had at least the brochure! Jean Desprez and his ilk were the last of the true artisans who put their souls into their creations, whether clothing, embroidery or perfume. The world we currently inhabit has had its heart and its soul ripped out.

  39. #99

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemlein View Post
    The world we currently inhabit has had its heart and its soul ripped out.
    I am so sorry to read those words, though I think do understand how you feel. I'd like to think there are still creators out there who care about what they create, who put their best effort into their art or craft, as well as people who still appreciate quality. Isn't that what the world of niche perfumery has been about? I know the old days are gone (I am in my 50s so I can remember some of what you miss), but I believe quality creators & artists are still there, if fewer and farther between. It's a new world now, a different world, and we must accomodate ourselves to that. There is much in it that is still beautiful and much beauty still being created. Everything changes, and so do we, whether we like it or not. But yes, I agree with you about one thing: a golden age has passed.

  40. #100

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    The opening notes of L'heure Bleue edt remind me faintly of the midnotes of Bal a Versailles

  41. #101

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I can't read this thread anymore. It makes me sad. I miss LMdM.

  42. #102

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I'm wondering if those in this thread can help me decipher the two miniatures of vintage BaV that I ordered. Both came today and the bottles are quite different. See below. On the bottom of the one on the left with the painted label, it says:

    PARFUM JEAN DESPREZ
    78 Rue Spontini, Paris
    Ref 1106
    2.4 ml . EMB 14220 0.08 FL OZ

    To me it smells very much like the BaV sample sent to me by a BNer.

    The one of the right has no markings except the name on the front. It's slightly smaller than the other and the contents are slightly lighter in color. It smells somewhat similar to the others but doesn't have their projection and longevity. Do you think it's a fake BaV mini?

    photo.jpg

    p.s. The original pic is larger. Not sure why it's so small here.

  43. #103
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    bav.jpg

    I have this version which I think, from the research I did, is from sometime in the 70's. I'll admit that my first impression of it frightened me, but now, I love it. I think it's a scent that can easily be off-putting. It's certainly a strong one.

  44. #104
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I have a sample of vintage and I've worn it only once. Because it is a powerhouse fragrance, I am working up the nerve to try it again. The first time was so intense that I had to wash it off. It could've been because it was summer and hot. Now that it's cool and getting cold I am going to give it another try.

  45. #105
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScentFan View Post
    I'm wondering if those in this thread can help me decipher the two miniatures of vintage BaV that I ordered. Both came today and the bottles are quite different. See below. On the bottom of the one on the left with the painted label, it says:

    PARFUM JEAN DESPREZ
    78 Rue Spontini, Paris
    Ref 1106
    2.4 ml . EMB 14220 0.08 FL OZ

    To me it smells very much like the BaV sample sent to me by a BNer.

    The one of the right has no markings except the name on the front. It's slightly smaller than the other and the contents are slightly lighter in color. It smells somewhat similar to the others but doesn't have their projection and longevity. Do you think it's a fake BaV mini?

    photo.jpg

    p.s. The original pic is larger. Not sure why it's so small here.
    Did either one come with a box? I can only tell BaV vintages by the box design. The one on the left looks like a vintage parfum mini I had, but they also made PdT minis that look the same.

    The one on the right might be an EdT mini of more recent vintage. I've seen those boxed on eBay but never seen the actual bottles inside the box.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  46. #106

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by danieq View Post
    bav.jpg

    I have this version which I think, from the research I did, is from sometime in the 70's. I'll admit that my first impression of it frightened me, but now, I love it. I think it's a scent that can easily be off-putting. It's certainly a strong one.
    It is and I thank you for sending the sample. Let me try a sniff report.

    My first impression is that I'm smelling something so special, it's going to be a challenge to describe why. It's as if whatever Shalimar and Nahema have perfumery degrees in, BaV has a PhD. It has more texture, more heft. Shalimar seems to have that "space" mr.reasonable talked about. Nahema has less, BaV has hugely less, but it doesn't assault my nose. All its molecular space seems inhabited by different delights that conspire to create a single magic. BaV is a wholly grownup scent and a rich one, meant for sultans and kings. It doesn't shout. What king shouts when he enters a room? A king simply arrives and so does BaV--fully there, fully itself, needing no introductions. What am I smelling? Fruits? A medley of ethereal flowers, precious resins, compelling musks? Each raising the others to their heights. If Narcisso Rodriquez for her is walking sex, BaV is headlong love at first sight. Looking up its notes: Oh, sheesh. No fruit. I was sure I'd find peach, but instead it has cassia, neroli, bergamot, lemon. It has a flower garden in it: three roses, orange blossoms, lilac, lily, jasmine, ylang ylang. It has balsam, musks, civet, resins. So my nose gets 3 out of the 4 big groups, but no way these ingredients alone are responsible for BaV because other perfumes have rose, have musk, etc. Based on what I've sniffed so far, BaV is in a class by itself. There is fatal sorcery here. It's what Cleopatra might have worn to make Marc Anthony think it was a good idea to abandon Rome.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    Did either one come with a box? I can only tell BaV vintages by the box design. The one on the left looks like a vintage parfum mini I had, but they also made PdT minis that look the same.

    The one on the right might be an EdT mini of more recent vintage. I've seen those boxed on eBay but never seen the actual bottles inside the box.
    Neither came in a box. Based on danieq's sample, I'm pretty sure the one on the left is the real thing. Not sure about the other, though.
    Last edited by ScentFan; 14th November 2013 at 04:05 PM. Reason: "getting the words right"--Hemingway

  47. #107

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I have just come across some trademark information on the Govt. of Canada's Intellectual Property Register. Jean Desprez, it might interest you all, was active in Canada before 1950. That's us - always ahead of the pack.

    There are eleven documents which deal with dates and addresses of the companies that registered Jean Desprez and its parfume names in Canada; Desprez entered Canada in 1942.

    This is the link:

    http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/tr...DocsPerPage=10

    These trademarks are contained in the documents (they may contain information of interest esp. addresses, changes of ownership)

    Trademarks: VERSAILLES POUR HOMMES, Expunged, 0456152, TMA257547
    Trademarks: 40 LOVE, Expunged, 0306691, TMA157743
    Trademarks: DEBUTANTE DE VERSAILLES, Expunged, 0286643, TMA146602
    Trademarks: BAL A VERSAILLES, Expunged, 0286640, TMA141466
    Trademarks: FAC-SIMILE DE LA SIGNATURE DU DEPOSANT "JEAN DESPREZ", Expunged, 0211232, UCA039658
    Trademarks: INITIATION, Registered, 0664778, TMA393230
    Trademarks: WEIL & DESIGN, Expunged, 0607929, TMA359447
    Trademarks: RVOLUTION VERSAILLES, Expunged, 0632672, TMA385687
    Trademarks: SHEHERAZADE, Registered, 0520657, TMA300016
    Trademarks: JARDANEL, Expunged, 0376922, TMA209362


    GO to the link page, click on each of the documents and you will see particulars of Desprez which most of us wouldn't know, including that Desprez owned Weil at one point, that the Rue Spontini address is fairly late, and that Desprez was in Canada in 1942, and that the changes in formulation probably were accompanied by a change in address and registration - possibly for purposes of limiting liability (my interpretation)

    Happy collating to anyone interested. la site est aussi disponible en francais




    Last edited by bluemlein; 2nd June 2014 at 10:14 PM.

  48. #108

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    Did either one come with a box? I can only tell BaV vintages by the box design. The one on the left looks like a vintage parfum mini I had, but they also made PdT minis that look the same.

    The one on the right might be an EdT mini of more recent vintage. I've seen those boxed on eBay but never seen the actual bottles inside the box.
    Rubegon, to properly identify these you have to hold them up against the light. Small differences in the interior of the bottle are a help in dating them. The first of the "sunflower" crystal bottles looks like this:BaV mini note bottom profile 2.jpg Note the beautiful regularity of the bottle interior. As time went on - perhaps because of cost - the bottle interior shrank. Maybe to give the purchaser a half-mL less, or because the cheaper producer produced sloppier molds, I don't know. This is where we all wish our Parisian friend would appear in a cloud of original BaV! Conpare the interior of this bottle, which is either Genesis or SEI BaV mini Genesis or SEIq.jpg - I tendn to think Genesis because of the Florentine finish of the cap - but it's hard to know, without documents at hand.

    Please! if anyone has BaV or Desprez in a version other than what is discussed here, or in my Guide http://www.ebay.com/gds/Lets-Talk-About-Bal-A-Versailles-/10000000178622429/g.html[/URL]http://www.ebay.com/gds/Lets-Talk-About-Bal-A-Versailles-/10000000178622429/g.html let me know. Pictures are always welcome.

  49. #109

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I also had to grow older to appreciate it. When I was young, I disliked it because I thought it smelled cheap and skanky. It still smells a little skanky, to me, but in a GOOD way. I think as we age, our tastes broaden and sharpen. At least I hope so! :-)

  50. #110

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Hey! If we are talking about Versailles.. Maybe it's what Anthenais de Montespan wore when she and the Sun King slid behind a bush, during walks in the royal gardens.

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