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  1. #91

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    Yeah. So, I already get enough hate mail. People accuse me of all manner of things. One said: "All you, leMdM, have to do is mention a perfume to quadruple prices in e-bay auctions." Another said "would you please STOP? You've already made Jicky vintage a holy grail--and Mouchoir--forget it--this is all because of YOU!" --Those are examples of the mean ones--I've had nicer ones as well--but all begging me to STOP divulging.
    I could be all from you, but I suspect it is more from the Michael Jackson fan community, who discuss it regularly because they want to smell like him. I'm sure that in the last three years there has been a FLOOD of people wanting it and not knowing the difference between all the formulations.
    One last detail about BaV: (very honestly) It *really* isn't for everyone. You sort of have to be a bit daft to wear this, so, blind buyers, don't bother. It's frankly out of line by today's standards of obviousness. It lacks "the sperm note."
    Yes, that is also what I was hoping to convey by sharing the reactions of people who smelled it on me. It is from the very END of the late-romantic era when emotional expression was at its height and was extremely complicated and complex. That era is LONG GONE and has been replaced with fast, harsh, non-emotional minimalism. And the minimalism is all manufactured sounds/thoughts (binary philosophy, for example)/smells.

    At the end of that era, people understood that beautiful was ugly, which is why you keep saying that this scent is fierce and not necessarily nice. You can only have beauty if you have ugliness in equal, if not greater measure. (That is one reason, for example in "The best jasmine perfume" thread I happened to read, one poster said that it smelled great for a very short time and then she tired of it.) People look for beauty by itself - pretty, light fragrances, I suppose. But, beauty, in and of itself, is boring. And the late-romanticists knew that. (Well, we have moved to ALL ugliness, but that is a whole 'nother subject!)

    Anyway, I am sorry to see the advice coming to an end in this thread. It has been so valuable (to me at least) and informative. I can't tell you how grateful I am that you responded with so much info!!!!

    Thanks again!

  2. #92
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    Yeah. So, I already get enough hate mail. People accuse me of all manner of things. One said: "All you, leMdM, have to do is mention a perfume to quadruple prices in e-bay auctions." Another said "would you please STOP? You've already made Jicky vintage a holy grail--and Mouchoir--forget it--this is all because of YOU!" --Those are examples of the mean ones--I've had nicer ones as well--but all begging me to STOP divulging. SO: this will be my last comment on this thread. Lilybelle and I have Jellabas to find. She wants hers in Chantilly pink trimmed in Marabout, and I want mine in Dark Ash Blond trimmed in aigrette plumes, tone on tone, and I've already ordered 40+ meters of "Je Reviens" blue silk chiffon for Ingami: We have our own "Burning Man" coming up & there's no time to be spilling secrets. At any rate--I was happy to give them while I could. One last detail about BaV: (very honestly) It *really* isn't for everyone. You sort of have to be a bit daft to wear this, so, blind buyers, don't bother. It's frankly out of line by today's standards of obviousness. It lacks "the sperm note."
    Hahaha this is hilarious:-)

    I really can not believe this, smells and perfumes are pretty much the same part of taste as food is, so if you say you enjoy eating fish everyone should start buying fish!!......you said you rarely get complimented for it, and dogodojo confirmed it too, and i believe you it smells dirty!!

    The most dirty smell i have is amouage Gold, pre reformulation, i like it very much but cant wear it every day, and its not likable at all its weird! And whenever some girl says its her signature i believe it, and wonder at the same time how can she honestly enjoy that civet smell, i say i like it because its weird, and i often buy things that are not likable at first but that can be tricky because with food i never eat what i don't like at first:-) , and many perfume lovers have scents they don use at all! So this tells all about your taste, more then what one thinks he likes:-)
    , and wherever you look they all ramble about some reflection man, memoire man....oki that one i did not try:-) ,very few people adore Gold for women, and wear it every single day

    So to like some scent on that level i think is predetermined by your overall taste, or body chemistry i don't know how to explain better, i don't think anyone can talk herself/himslef into enjoying something

    It takes an individual to pull that BaV off, how i imagined it, and suddenly everyone wants to stink :-)

    I enjoy this thread so so much, and if price of this perfume goes up, then

    As a real trader MdM you should start buying something cheap post few threads here and sell it to the market,
    Or maybe consider selling your stock piles of BaV to all the new lovers of this scent .....its huge asset to be Trendsetter of this magnitude hehe
    Last edited by iivanita; 10th November 2012 at 09:28 PM.

  3. #93
    Basenotes Junkie heavenscent1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by lilybelle View Post

    Heavenscent1, I see Jackie more as a Joy or Herms girl (she did ride, don't forget). I can see her in BaV. I can see her in 24 Faubourg, though I don't know whether she was still alive when that was released. I think it would have suited her. I don't see her as Chanel so much (I mean later, after Jack died and she remarried), but, who knows, she probably had many fragrances. As I've grown older I admire her style very much. She had great style because she had a great ease with it. That's how we should express our own styles - with ease, being comfortable in our own skins and with our own tastes. Even though she was quite low key, she had that je ne sais quoi . lMdM would probably say, "of course she did, she was French!" (partially). (
    Jackie was an outdoors girl, too, wasn't she. I always think of her as 1st lady and as an editor in her later years. I admired her so much! The epitome of grace and charm. 24 Faubourg is some very classy stuff; I got a sample just because I read that Princess Di wore it. The only Joy I've smelled is from the perfume counter and I thought it was atrocious, but maybe the vintage is nice. She probably did wear a selection of different fragrances, I wonder what they were.

  4. #94
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    finally i tried this famous M.Jacksons perfume

    i tried vintage EDC from 1962! got sample from dear basenoter M.!! (THANK YOU!)and i was expecting something unpleasant, something civety animalic.......and hard to wear.....but was surprised it was not that stinky
    after 2 hours or maybe 3 it became such a pleasant warm scent, just like some have described like your second skin, and i was trying to get roses, could not at all, maybe orange flower yes but am not too sure how orange flower smells, but what i get the most is powdery sweetnes, and civet note! and that sweet a bit like barnyard note i connect to tolu balsam and civet ...and powdery note to orris root, it did remind me in moments of Cuir de russie from Chanel. i dont get too much musk as well, i get more musk from Shalimar...the overall feeling is dry powdery balsamic civet note with a touch of sweetnes, that attracted me the most

    and today i tested it along with my regular perfume wich is "clean"(nothing animalic) and was surprised how upon application just a dab of that cologne takes over and smells so so sooo animalic, civety, did not notice that last night! was almost reppeling, so wearing this day in day out and enjoying every second of it....must take a man or big individuality ! its so masculine to me....
    it is strong civet note but nothing sharp like i get in Amouage Gold, and in the dry down the whole perfume gets so beautiful! where in Amouage Gold how time passes by it gets more stinky to me....

    its very beautiful becasue its so strong! and longlasting....and perfume?, i am sure i could not wear it at any occasion...its just too weird! and from everything i have read here this is another scent and more demanding!

    but really nice i have tried it...and when i get bored of clean smells i may wear some EDC but nothing more then that its just on the edge for me to pull it off...ofcourse if i can go through the first 1 hour too early to tell hehe....

  5. #95

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I have been wearing Bal a Versailles since it was released in 1962. I had a few sidesteps into "green" Vent Vert, orig. formula; 4711, etc but that only served to prove the point which is: There is no other that can touch it. Tho there are many interesting scents that one may wear - let's say for going to a PTA meeting, or some other place where one does not want one's personality so nakedly displayed via one's scent.

    One of the extraordinary aspects of this complex chemical brew is that it takes very, very little of it to be enveloped in its shimmering aura. And let me say that in all my years of wearing it I have never smelled the "urine" "stink", as some people call it. Not that it is not incredibly erotic - it is. Not that it is ladylike - it isn't, at least, not in the North American conception of that term. But I can tell you that it is European-ladylike.

    I don't believe that Jackie Kennedy ever wore this except as the obligatory slap-it-on-the-wrist-because-it-was-a-gift. If this was Michael Jackson's favourite scent I can only say he needed mothering. Because apart from its gorgeously understated, but very insistent, erotic notes, what it provides is a feeling of comfort, safety, warmth. The tensions between the former and the latter are what makes the real Bal a Versailles the complex, one-of-a-kind rarity that it is.

    And to anyone who has not tried it I would say stay far away from the foil box.....I haven't had the misfortune of smelling it myself, but what I read here and elsewhere is shudder-inducing.

  6. #96

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I love your post, Bluemlein! Welcome! I now regularly wear Bal Versailles edc (vintage) and it is indeed a comforting fragrance. It is an intimate fragrance for me, something close and whispering. I don't wear it every day but fairly often, and I love being cocooned in its security. I can understand why it has been your mainstay for so many years. It is a very special fragrance, a living organism in a way. Even among great classics, few compare. Once bitten, you can never go back to anything less satisfying. Interesting, what you say about Jackie Kennedy, and about Michael Jackson's possibly needing mothering. I can imagine he did! Maybe we all do, we who love Bal.

  7. #97
    Super Member NineInchNell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I had a 1980's vintage bottle and case that looked like that in college! I wish I would have kept it! I need to return to these older perfumes that have kick and silage. I find it hard to locate modern perfumes with this strength of silage and personality. The bottle is literally a work of art!

  8. #98

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I used to wear BaV all the time so that I was considered a "favoured client" by the retailer. One day, in the mid-Seventies, I was approached by the perfume vendeuse who pressed a thick envelope into my hand, very surreptitiously, as though she were transferring contraband. It was an accordion-fold from JD announcing the availability, for a very short time, of a special Sevres porcelain bottle full of BaV, an abstracted version of a Greek statue or some such, bisque porcelain with discreet touches of gold.
    Oooh! I wanted it so badly! But it was hideously expensive so I could not in good conscience spend more on a little bottle of perfume than on half a year's mortgage payments (the city was then undiscovered; housing was inexpensive and affordable). Now I wish I had at least the brochure! Jean Desprez and his ilk were the last of the true artisans who put their souls into their creations, whether clothing, embroidery or perfume. The world we currently inhabit has had its heart and its soul ripped out.

  9. #99

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemlein View Post
    The world we currently inhabit has had its heart and its soul ripped out.
    I am so sorry to read those words, though I think do understand how you feel. I'd like to think there are still creators out there who care about what they create, who put their best effort into their art or craft, as well as people who still appreciate quality. Isn't that what the world of niche perfumery has been about? I know the old days are gone (I am in my 50s so I can remember some of what you miss), but I believe quality creators & artists are still there, if fewer and farther between. It's a new world now, a different world, and we must accomodate ourselves to that. There is much in it that is still beautiful and much beauty still being created. Everything changes, and so do we, whether we like it or not. But yes, I agree with you about one thing: a golden age has passed.

  10. #100
    Super Member NineInchNell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    The opening notes of L'heure Bleue edt remind me faintly of the midnotes of Bal a Versailles

  11. #101

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I can't read this thread anymore. It makes me sad. I miss LMdM.

  12. #102

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I'm wondering if those in this thread can help me decipher the two miniatures of vintage BaV that I ordered. Both came today and the bottles are quite different. See below. On the bottom of the one on the left with the painted label, it says:

    PARFUM JEAN DESPREZ
    78 Rue Spontini, Paris
    Ref 1106
    2.4 ml . EMB 14220 0.08 FL OZ

    To me it smells very much like the BaV sample sent to me by a BNer.

    The one of the right has no markings except the name on the front. It's slightly smaller than the other and the contents are slightly lighter in color. It smells somewhat similar to the others but doesn't have their projection and longevity. Do you think it's a fake BaV mini?

    photo.jpg

    p.s. The original pic is larger. Not sure why it's so small here.

  13. #103
    Dependent danieq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    bav.jpg

    I have this version which I think, from the research I did, is from sometime in the 70's. I'll admit that my first impression of it frightened me, but now, I love it. I think it's a scent that can easily be off-putting. It's certainly a strong one.

  14. #104
    Basenotes Junkie Curly11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I have a sample of vintage and I've worn it only once. Because it is a powerhouse fragrance, I am working up the nerve to try it again. The first time was so intense that I had to wash it off. It could've been because it was summer and hot. Now that it's cool and getting cold I am going to give it another try.

  15. #105
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    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScentFan View Post
    I'm wondering if those in this thread can help me decipher the two miniatures of vintage BaV that I ordered. Both came today and the bottles are quite different. See below. On the bottom of the one on the left with the painted label, it says:

    PARFUM JEAN DESPREZ
    78 Rue Spontini, Paris
    Ref 1106
    2.4 ml . EMB 14220 0.08 FL OZ

    To me it smells very much like the BaV sample sent to me by a BNer.

    The one of the right has no markings except the name on the front. It's slightly smaller than the other and the contents are slightly lighter in color. It smells somewhat similar to the others but doesn't have their projection and longevity. Do you think it's a fake BaV mini?

    photo.jpg

    p.s. The original pic is larger. Not sure why it's so small here.
    Did either one come with a box? I can only tell BaV vintages by the box design. The one on the left looks like a vintage parfum mini I had, but they also made PdT minis that look the same.

    The one on the right might be an EdT mini of more recent vintage. I've seen those boxed on eBay but never seen the actual bottles inside the box.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  16. #106

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by danieq View Post
    bav.jpg

    I have this version which I think, from the research I did, is from sometime in the 70's. I'll admit that my first impression of it frightened me, but now, I love it. I think it's a scent that can easily be off-putting. It's certainly a strong one.
    It is and I thank you for sending the sample. Let me try a sniff report.

    My first impression is that I'm smelling something so special, it's going to be a challenge to describe why. It's as if whatever Shalimar and Nahema have perfumery degrees in, BaV has a PhD. It has more texture, more heft. Shalimar seems to have that "space" mr.reasonable talked about. Nahema has less, BaV has hugely less, but it doesn't assault my nose. All its molecular space seems inhabited by different delights that conspire to create a single magic. BaV is a wholly grownup scent and a rich one, meant for sultans and kings. It doesn't shout. What king shouts when he enters a room? A king simply arrives and so does BaV--fully there, fully itself, needing no introductions. What am I smelling? Fruits? A medley of ethereal flowers, precious resins, compelling musks? Each raising the others to their heights. If Narcisso Rodriquez for her is walking sex, BaV is headlong love at first sight. Looking up its notes: Oh, sheesh. No fruit. I was sure I'd find peach, but instead it has cassia, neroli, bergamot, lemon. It has a flower garden in it: three roses, orange blossoms, lilac, lily, jasmine, ylang ylang. It has balsam, musks, civet, resins. So my nose gets 3 out of the 4 big groups, but no way these ingredients alone are responsible for BaV because other perfumes have rose, have musk, etc. Based on what I've sniffed so far, BaV is in a class by itself. There is fatal sorcery here. It's what Cleopatra might have worn to make Marc Anthony think it was a good idea to abandon Rome.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    Did either one come with a box? I can only tell BaV vintages by the box design. The one on the left looks like a vintage parfum mini I had, but they also made PdT minis that look the same.

    The one on the right might be an EdT mini of more recent vintage. I've seen those boxed on eBay but never seen the actual bottles inside the box.
    Neither came in a box. Based on danieq's sample, I'm pretty sure the one on the left is the real thing. Not sure about the other, though.
    Last edited by ScentFan; 14th November 2013 at 04:05 PM. Reason: "getting the words right"--Hemingway

  17. #107

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I have just come across some trademark information on the Govt. of Canada's Intellectual Property Register. Jean Desprez, it might interest you all, was active in Canada before 1950. That's us - always ahead of the pack.

    There are eleven documents which deal with dates and addresses of the companies that registered Jean Desprez and its parfume names in Canada; Desprez entered Canada in 1942.

    This is the link:

    http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/tr...DocsPerPage=10

    These trademarks are contained in the documents (they may contain information of interest esp. addresses, changes of ownership)

    Trademarks: VERSAILLES POUR HOMMES, Expunged, 0456152, TMA257547
    Trademarks: 40 LOVE, Expunged, 0306691, TMA157743
    Trademarks: DEBUTANTE DE VERSAILLES, Expunged, 0286643, TMA146602
    Trademarks: BAL A VERSAILLES, Expunged, 0286640, TMA141466
    Trademarks: FAC-SIMILE DE LA SIGNATURE DU DEPOSANT "JEAN DESPREZ", Expunged, 0211232, UCA039658
    Trademarks: INITIATION, Registered, 0664778, TMA393230
    Trademarks: WEIL & DESIGN, Expunged, 0607929, TMA359447
    Trademarks: RVOLUTION VERSAILLES, Expunged, 0632672, TMA385687
    Trademarks: SHEHERAZADE, Registered, 0520657, TMA300016
    Trademarks: JARDANEL, Expunged, 0376922, TMA209362


    GO to the link page, click on each of the documents and you will see particulars of Desprez which most of us wouldn't know, including that Desprez owned Weil at one point, that the Rue Spontini address is fairly late, and that Desprez was in Canada in 1942, and that the changes in formulation probably were accompanied by a change in address and registration - possibly for purposes of limiting liability (my interpretation)

    Happy collating to anyone interested. la site est aussi disponible en francais




    Last edited by bluemlein; 2nd June 2014 at 10:14 PM.

  18. #108

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    Did either one come with a box? I can only tell BaV vintages by the box design. The one on the left looks like a vintage parfum mini I had, but they also made PdT minis that look the same.

    The one on the right might be an EdT mini of more recent vintage. I've seen those boxed on eBay but never seen the actual bottles inside the box.
    Rubegon, to properly identify these you have to hold them up against the light. Small differences in the interior of the bottle are a help in dating them. The first of the "sunflower" crystal bottles looks like this:BaV mini note bottom profile 2.jpg Note the beautiful regularity of the bottle interior. As time went on - perhaps because of cost - the bottle interior shrank. Maybe to give the purchaser a half-mL less, or because the cheaper producer produced sloppier molds, I don't know. This is where we all wish our Parisian friend would appear in a cloud of original BaV! Conpare the interior of this bottle, which is either Genesis or SEI BaV mini Genesis or SEIq.jpg - I tendn to think Genesis because of the Florentine finish of the cap - but it's hard to know, without documents at hand.

    Please! if anyone has BaV or Desprez in a version other than what is discussed here, or in my Guide http://www.ebay.com/gds/Lets-Talk-About-Bal-A-Versailles-/10000000178622429/g.html[/URL]http://www.ebay.com/gds/Lets-Talk-About-Bal-A-Versailles-/10000000178622429/g.html let me know. Pictures are always welcome.

  19. #109

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    I also had to grow older to appreciate it. When I was young, I disliked it because I thought it smelled cheap and skanky. It still smells a little skanky, to me, but in a GOOD way. I think as we age, our tastes broaden and sharpen. At least I hope so! :-)

  20. #110

    Default Re: Bal Versailles...anyone?

    Hey! If we are talking about Versailles.. Maybe it's what Anthenais de Montespan wore when she and the Sun King slid behind a bush, during walks in the royal gardens.

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